Interesting stuff
Jelly Flater wrote:Ha !
World ocean day in a pool ;)
- that’s a true sign of the times…
Changing definitions and identities, all to suit agendas and identities !
Luckily there will always be people willing to fight the good fight ;)
- that is, until we change the meaning of ‘brave’.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=XYNGHICoAQY&pp=ygUhSm9yZGFuIHBldGVyc29uIHR...
Far out Jelly, I clicked on that section that starts at 1:02 where they mentioned things like metoidioplasty and neopenis. I'm not familiar with these terms so I googled it and looked at some pictures and wow! My stomach is turning inside out, why did I do this to myself?
From wavepools to the trans issue. Quite a leap, JF.
Have been communicating with an older Gong surfer who, now approaching dotage, is undergoing HRT. Has known for a long time she's been born into the wrong body. Lived a troubled life, though at the same time it's been an incredibly creative life: shaping, glassing, kneeboarding, photography, snowboarding since the days of Wintersticks. Lots of published works.
Doesn't want to compete against women. Just wants to express on the outside what she feels on the inside. Knows there will be rejection from the surfing community she'd been part of for fifty years.
Feels to me like that's pretty brave, irrespective of agenda.
It's a very complex issue, but at the individual level I reckon we need to show empathy and try and understand it, cos it is hard to understand but it is also a real thing.
I’m all for individual empowerment and totally agree with the empathy and understanding side of things.
Stu - the fact your example is of an adult is also an important distinction worth noting.
I’m critical and sceptical of government endorsed and facilitated procedures regarding children. Aside from the obvious physical issues that are at play - the psychological aspect of being able to demand that others adhere to a fantasy of your own design is where things go awry…
A grown man or woman making a decision about themself or their identity is in a very different ball park to a teenage or adolescent brain. We should encourage our children to question and experiment. We should also let them know that being young and confused is nothing new ;)
The idea of legislation being explored to offer and provide gender reassignment for minors, in my opinion, is dangerous and unnecessary. We do live in a world, however, where it is increasingly ‘each to their own’ - and nothing wrong with that - though I’ll probly only have a proper take on things if one of my beautiful daughters comes home from school and says she’d like her very own penis cut from her delicate little female arm !
In the meantime…. this stuff being considered or proposed as something to be a part of school curriculum under the banner of education or diversity or inclusiveness is a stretch …
Let the kids be kids ;)
https://m.
&pp=ygUhSm9yZGFuIHBldGVyc29uIHRyYW5zZ2VuZGVyIHN0b3J5 I think distinction and nuance largely goes out the window on this topic, and others like it. Mostly when it happens on social media but also in some quarters of the media. There are people for whom the issue has never and will never have any bearing on their life yet they take a strident viewpoint on it.
Think in those instances I'm happy to let Jordan talk without me. I won't be clicking.
I certainly don’t agree with everything from Jordan…
His tone can be a bit abrupt and at times patronising, yet there is an obvious ability to explore and tackle controversial issues in a way that creates and enables further dialogue and understanding.
- the challenge is in the listening.
… each to their own ;)
Jelly I didn't watch the whole video but from what I can see the focus was on kids and the medical profession rather than the individual. When do you prescribe surgical gender transition and who does it? I believe this is an important discussion, especially in the US which has a notorious history of overdiagnosing patients in the name of the mighty dollar. Look at ADHD and Adderall. Opioid crisis. Look at the role Purdue Pharma and McKinsey played with OxyContin.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/03/business/mckinsey-opioids-settlement....
There is a risk that gender transitions could go the same way. Where is the line between a medical condition and social contagion? Especially with everyone pushing it so hard. I work for a US company and I can guarantee you they are pushing it super hard. And again, I believe this is a much bigger issue in the US than it is here. So, I don't want to bring their issues 'home' and make a big deal out of it locally.
It’s certainly a highly charged debate at the moment. I can’t help but think that the almost “demand” from the trans movement/community for immediate understanding of the situation is fueling the angst.
History suggests even the most basic changes to the most basic of exclusions are at least multi generational (eg race, women’s rights).
But here we are, with technology enabling an expectation of immediacy of change on a topic very few people understand or have experience with.
stunet wrote:There's a few things in that talk that make me question his line of thought, though I largely agree with the main thrust of his argument. Maybe it's just a distilled down version of a more thorough study?
It seems like he's fingering structural issues as much as individual ones (issues with the state as opposed to issues between parent and child). I'm the father of three boys, and my suggestion if you're looking for practical answers is to read Steven Biddulph or even better, Maggie Dent.
Agree with Maggie Dent and Steve Biddulph being good reads. Read them for my daughter, as well as the old classic Dr Spock.
stunet wrote:On the kids and danger thing: There's a reason kids are drawn to online, and it's not just because programmers are psychologists and know how kids' minds work, nor that the device has replaced the telephone as instrument of communication, but also that adults now administer many wild places and kids need places to be on their own to do, for want of a better term, dangerous shit.
In surfing, I understand that some kids need/want early competition and coaching, however that was never my experience, nor the case of any of my friends. We surfed to get away from parents and adults, and the beach was that wild place. Unless you live in truly regional areas it aint easy for kids to do that these days. Everywhere has overbearing adults and their prying eyes that rush to judgement.
Hence online has become their 'wild place'. It serves a psychological function yet it's really only a proxy and is unhealthy in many different ways (mood changes, anxiety, eyesight, sedentary, vulenerable to online predators).
I think if you have a kid who absolutely needs that getaway then you somehow have to make it happen. If not, they'll find it online.
Spent 6 weeks in nw wa last year, and let the kids run wild and feral. They loved it!
Hard to do in urban SE Qld, but try to get em out.
"..."Stu - the fact your example is of an adult is also an important distinction worth noting.
I’m critical and sceptical of government endorsed and facilitated procedures regarding children..."
exactly
there lies the problem
crg wrote:It’s certainly a highly charged debate at the moment. I can’t help but think that the almost “demand” from the trans movement/community for immediate understanding of the situation is fueling the angst.
History suggests even the most basic changes to the most basic of exclusions are at least multi generational (eg race, women’s rights).
But here we are, with technology enabling an expectation of immediacy of change on a topic very few people understand or have experience with.
and, totally!
geez, even 'the community' offend people with 'wrong' pronouns etc...
yet they expect oldies and those not a part of the community to strictly follow the rules etc.
'rules' and 'norms' that are in their infancy at best...
and therefore, one would think somewhat 'fluid' by the very nature of that infancy
...but it seems every day, there's a social media meltdown around related so called 'transphobia'...
the whole seemingly daily SM shitstorm - and the following corresponding wider media pile ons - just plain beggar belief....
as kamahl would say... "why are people so unkind?"
(that goes both ways)
Stu touched on this, but I think it's a very important thing: Children need wild places, AND they need freedom to do shit away from their parents. To learn, make mistakes, get hurt, etc.
How did many parents evolve into overbearing guardians, and why do they think it's a great idea? It's not like we all like in concrete jungles with no opportunities to go slightly feral, but it sure seems like it talking to parents.
My getaway places were:
- a small woodland in our suburb, where we rode homemade bikes, shot homemade bows and arrows, climbed trees, and built forts.
- the soccer pitch. I played in a local club a 10min bike ride away, but sometimes we practiced or played home games a 30min bike ride away, and my parents had no clue where I was. "Dinner's at 6.30; be there with clean hands and no complaints!"
I feel extremely grateful for those freedoms.
Our kids got quite a lot of wilderness as my big career takeoff happened to be working remote in some quite stunning locations. It all just fit into place.
Homeschooled as well, through the excellent SIDE. They'd take off and go feral and climb trees or race each other to the peaks of mountains, and later when snowboarding came along they'd be off all day, "You're late," "Sorry I was digging him out of a river, the snow was deep!" They are very close to this day. The philosophy was that nature was something special to be immersed in ("Can I pat the sealion, dad?") and I did borrow quite a bit of it from reading Biddulph in the 1990s. They are both pretty level headed as adults, and looking forward to some bushwalking down in the Gt Southern with the eldest on his break. They go live their lives and they come back to it.
Sounds wonderful!
When I was a grom we made our own fun, ride down the river with our air rifles over our shoulders, a pocket full of crackers and a cigar or two to smoke. If you did that now there would be star force, choppers, news at 6. These days they sit inside all day playing extreme video games, kill or be killed, other humans are just random lumps of meat to exterminate. Hijack an ambulance, shoot cops, blow up a restaurant, torture, maim and rampage. Small wonder youth crime is out of control and respect is unheard of. Real life is just so boring.
Extreme video games, kill or be killed?
"In a simulated test staged by the US military, an air force drone controlled by AI killed its operator to prevent it from interfering with its efforts to achieve its mission".
Sounds sweet, full steam ahead with AI!
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/jun/01/us-military-drone-ai-kil...
re my comment regarding you and Indo AndyM, sorry if I misrepresented you, my recollection is that you get into it pretty hard with Indo, but always seem to add preambles like, ‘I appreciate the effort put into your reply’, ‘that's not the real you’, and absorb some of his comments you find offensive as trolling-schtick (Unfortunately, I think Indo kinda wrote you off as 'the bad andy' not long after)..
On a separate topic, if you and seeds wanted to take southernraw to see John Farnham's Finding the Voice, I would highly recommend it – excellent movie.. I would challenge even the most cynical old punk to not feel a twinge of pride seeing Johnny perform the hit song he recorded in his basement to 100,000 East Germans prior to the Wall coming down.
Basesix, believe it or not I'm positively influenced by Waleed Aly and Scott Stephens on The Minefield.
I really do try to find common ground with people and have some actual communication.
Unless of course they're completely unreasonable, ignorant and full of shit, then I'm quite happy to call them a dickhead.
"Can I pat the Sealion, dad?"
"I dunno mate, he doesn't look real happy."
"Awww c'mon, you let Alex keep the tiger snake."
"Alright, but don't tell your mum."
zenagain wrote:"Can I pat the Sealion, dad?"
"I dunno mate, he doesn't look real happy."
"Awww c'mon, you let Alex keep the tiger snake."
"Alright, but don't tell your mum."
It was at that moment, he knew he farked up.
Even more shocking- VJ is Chinese!
Yeah they are not cute doggies of the sea, but try telling that to a 7 year old.
Actually I wonder about that one, if his soul incarnated straight from the animal world. Began writing all four ways, crazy artistic. He could catch anything, "Dad, do you want a moth?/Lizard?/Spider?/Ant? Dad, I caught a bird, do you want it? Dad, I caught a fish," "What, you caught a fish with your bare hands?" "Yes."
1st day he really paddled out the back at age 12 ("I want to go further out than anybody else,") we later discovered there had been a 5m white sunbaking out the back (I thought it's pectoral fin flapping was a cormorant, common mistake) for an hour and a quarter on a patch of reef about 70m further out. Chopper buzzed us and sent us in. Exciting times, you are thinking 'My child, my child,' and you have just won the parenting award for safety of children that day.
Other cute scene I remember is all snowboarding would stop to watch wombats scritching around in the snow and dirt for something to eat.
lmao the multiple magpie
the kangaroo in water, the Ms reckons that's how they would drown the farm dogs
and that spider!!
zenagain wrote:I don't know why people hate Jordan Peterson so much? I think he's a brilliant mind and an amazing orator.
Thanks for putting that up Patrick. Fascinating stuff.
I agree with you, but i think he became a target and demonised when he become well known for his views on gender and trans issues like videos above.
I think lots of people that just write him off dont have any idea that these topics are only a tiny part of his work and his main focus in regard to books etc is more self development especially for men.
He even gets painted as a negative hateful person when in reality i think he is quite the opposite, i mean i doubt these are crocodile tears.
Island Bay wrote:Stu touched on this, but I think it's a very important thing: Children need wild places, AND they need freedom to do shit away from their parents. To learn, make mistakes, get hurt, etc.
How did many parents evolve into overbearing guardians, and why do they think it's a great idea? It's not like we all like in concrete jungles with no opportunities to go slightly feral, but it sure seems like it talking to parents.
My getaway places were:
- a small woodland in our suburb, where we rode homemade bikes, shot homemade bows and arrows, climbed trees, and built forts.
- the soccer pitch. I played in a local club a 10min bike ride away, but sometimes we practiced or played home games a 30min bike ride away, and my parents had no clue where I was. "Dinner's at 6.30; be there with clean hands and no complaints!"I feel extremely grateful for those freedoms.
I was the same i was always out and about on my bike exploring, farm land, bush, building sites, climbing trees, etc even use to go down to the railways station and play in the engines at the turntable and it was rare for even staff to care, then latter when moved to the coast it was the beach and sand dunes.
Now im a parent as much as id like to let my kids do the same, it just feels like its not safe to let them do so, which is sad.
I grew up in the big smoke, and my partner and I specifically moved to the country to raise kids. Best thing we ever did. Their whole childhood has been like the mid-70s.
(house prices and no crowds in the water, an added bonus!)
I agree Indo- but that doesn't align with their 'truth'.
Easier to tear something down than build something worthwhile.
Maybe old news for some, but worth an hour of your time if you haven't seen it. Equal parts scared and impressed after watching.
That was very eye opening dawnperiscope. I did not consider the way of using influence, persuasion and intimacy/companionship as the new version of 'attention' and how it could wreak havoc.
Now I do believe these qualifications will be seen as equal of Australian ones in Australia, is that true?
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-023-01770-y
Always thought the periodic table was kind of important. Especially in STEM.
This thing looks like a pissed off Greta Thundberg.
Surfing World is 60 years old and still going.
https://www.smh.com.au/sport/it-created-this-air-of-mystery-how-surfing-...
Dawn, just watched that video, jeez, it's scary, scary stuff.
Thanks for posting Dawn, excellent content...a Brave New World without the pills!
Out on twitter military historian Ricky D Phillips is doing the Falklands war, each day as it happened, with incredible revelations to coincide with each day this month, 41 years later. Some of what he's put together through hundreds of interviews is still classified in official documents. Also included are the press and diplomatic aspects to the conflict.
Best way to read is to scroll down then go up as each day passes.
Etarip you might be interested in the land aspect of the campaign (including the 'yomping'), I've found the ship and air side fascinating. The Brits did not establish air superiority, but went ahead and did it anyway. The cost on their ships and personnel was very heavy and finds some basis in the stripping of capacity done by successive governments in the 1960's-70's.
What blew me away the most was the 25th May 1982, when Atlantic Conveyor was hit and why it was hit; and just how close the very brave Argentinian air crews got to hitting a British carrier. The campaign hung in the balance as a hit on either of the carriers would have won it for the Argentinians; for the British centre of gravity would have been destroyed. It came that close!
As a trained historian, this guy has done the research, so much of it face to face, and presented it superbly. AAA+
Hey VJ - it’s a great thread. Been following it for a couple of weeks.
I’m finding the coverage of the behind-the-scenes and public politics and diplomacy fascinating. And the gap between them.
As far a capability goes, from memory the UK was going to sell their carrier HMS Invincible to Australia in 1983, as part of those cuts. If Argentina had waited a year the Brits would not have been able to recover those islands.
Ref the ground campaign - if you can get your hands on a book called “Not Mentioned in Dispatches” it’s well worth a read.
The author meticulously dissects the Battle of Goose Green, and pretty effectively exposes a lot of the myths and mythology about the battle - including the ‘heroic’ death of the UK Commanding Officer and the posthumous VC he was awarded.
Pretty dry in parts - a lot of doctrinal discussion - but a brave take on history.
Cheers Etarip, you are quite right, Invincible had been sold to Australia. (Imagine that: we would have had fixed wing carrier based aviation for the 1980s, 1990s and probably 2000s with excellent Harriers, oh well...)
Another trigger for the invasion was the scrapping of the larger Ark Royal IV in the late 1970s, with it's Phantoms. I'll have a look for the book: found an online version. The diplomacy stuff, yeah, keep your friends close and your enemies closer and France even closer still lol
And regarding the Invincible being sunk conspiracy theories, got to go aboard all 3 of the class when I was a kid - and they were all above water.
— internet hall of fame (@InternetH0F) June 18, 2023
Speechless after reading this.
I can’t stop thinking about it.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna89704
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/ohio-man-charged-murder-3-young-son...
Terrible! If the manner it describes he did it is correct it’s utterly chilling!!
Poor young fellas.
Missing submersible while on a dive on the RMS Titanic:
https://www.smh.com.au/world/north-america/the-race-to-save-titan-from-t...
velocityjohnno wrote:Missing submersible while on a dive on the RMS Titanic:
https://www.smh.com.au/world/north-america/the-race-to-save-titan-from-t...
Doesn't sound good for them.
Not quite Black Mirror, but still...
Fifteen years ago I started up a surf journal called Kurungabaa with some friends. Mostly print, we also had a webpage and a Facebook page for which I was an admin. Kurungabaa folded in about 2010 with the webpage shutting down a year or so later, while the FB page became a ghost page. I haven't visited it since then. I also haven't typed Kurungabaa into FB or my browser since then either.
Yesterday I was on a Zoom call and got asked about Kurungabaa. I chatted about it for a few minutes. I've gone back and considered my actions and I didn't type the word into my keyboard, didn't try to access it in any way, it was only spoken, and only on Zoom. This morning, Facebook sent me this message:
Coincidence? Too unlikely for my mind. And while it ain't sinister, there's no state secrets being shared here, it's disconcerting. If it's what I think it is, that means FB has access to anything I say, even while not on Facebook (Zoom is not owned by Facebook).
If I bothered to read the T&Cs it'd probably be in there - the permission to access anything I say within earshot of my computer - yet it's still an unwanted overreach, and worrying enough that this morning I switched my computer's input microphone to silent.
Fuck that.
Pricks!
Haha, wow, heard some good stories about big-algorithms, audio and fine-print but that's a doozy.
Mid-century dystopian fiction peeps often have a dehumanising number/barcode... in 2023 we not only have a number for life, but it's one we cherish for communication and access to everything, attached to a listening device, carried in our pockets, now on our wrists, soon implanted behind our ear.. and we will pay for it and want it! Bwa-hah-ha...
I've noticed things I say around my phone come up as ads on websites on the computer later so yeah. Most disconcerting recently was an add for a type of cycling underpant that has shiny padding to protect the protecty bits in a bright orange, so you look like you are wearing a baboon's arse... I did not ask for that or cycling in any manner.... hmm
Maybe you typed in shiny arsed baboon riding a unicycle VJ?
I search for that all the time.
Since switching to duckduckgo from google about 18 months ago I don’t get bombarded with adds that may be a subject that I’m searching for .
Have it cunts