Surf culture and Indonesia
Interesting piece in today's SMH. I think maybe they missed a big point in there. Something to do with the Indonesian government targeting Bali for tourist development.
Yes, very interesting. Highlights many issues we surfers have created albeit unwittingly. At least some are trying to change / fix things and I am sure one day it will. The Indo surf asset is too valuable.
"Unwittingly"??? PMSL!!
Surely, SheepD, you don't suggest that we surfers contrived the result of the surfers search and discovery of these magical locations ??
Well, no barberino.. it's not OUR fault... Never is OUR fault, aye... I mean, "we" travel to far flung corners of the globe in the self indulgent pursuit of a 20 second rush.. We photograph it, write about it, make surf movies about it to narcissistically get off on seeing the envy, "being the first"... Even had stock market listed companies go on "the search" back in the days when money was flowing.... But it's never our fault... When it's "save the dolphins" or "surfing for a cause", we're just one big happy family.... But when faced with the negatives surfing has created, we scatter like rats.... Nope, I got nothing to do with that horrid development going on over in Indo.... I had nothing to do with the destruction of the gold coast, the urban sprawl of the sunny coast, the yuppyization of Byron, the prefab delight of Victorias' surf coast, the ugliness of J bay, The millionaires delight of Maui, the wall to wall traffic of the North shore, the owning of islands in Fiji, the destruction of paradise in the Maldives etc etc etc .... None of this has anything to do with me, even though I bought the mags, I read the articles, I saw the movie.... I deny any part of it.... ;) And I'm sure it wont happen to the next "secret revealed".....
I'm so with you sheepy on this one but you left out PNG and the remote pacific off your list, happy new year to you.
And what about government corruption at every level, one thing for the central government to say stop clear felling that rainforest when every level of officialdom under it is on the take (yeah its a generalisation but its mostly true). Man, the ships Ive seen in ports stacked high with rainforest logs (almost as long as the ship) to be made into decks around the world and the rainforest replaced with palm oil plantations .... its the new filthy gold rush.
My navy mates have sailed around the world many many times and have docked at all major and many minor asian ports. They all say they have never seen water as filthy in port and out to sea some 50-70 miles as in asia.
Hmm not sure I am with you there sheepdog. Most of the damage you list has very little to do with surfing. Before getting too excited about the developments on the Bukit you should probably cast your mind back to what it was like in the early days when those people were living a subsistence lifestyle in difficult conditions with inadequate food, very little access to the larger economy and minimal prospects for education. Surfing put money directly into the Uluwatu community and they were grateful for it. That money improved their lives. It built their houses, improved their health and gave their children education. A lot of bad things did happen along the way but I would guess that, given the opportunity, not many would want go go back to the way it was.
Nor does it make much sense blaming Byron, the Gold Coast and the rest on us. The primary cause of those particular shit piles rests with those who organised and delivered the shit.......governments and developers.
Happy new year, BB....
Surfing is what lights the fire, BB.... If I was a billionaire developer, I wouldn't even bother spending on "market research"... I'd just subscribe to the surf mags, visit the web pages, and go "haah, those surfies have just discovered my new resort, again...."
As far as the "delivered shit".... We ARE the reason for the delivered shit... You talk of the "uluwatu" community.... It's like we're the "gods" bringing the gifts... What of Kuta? What of the feral pollution all this development has brought?.. The drugs?.... The problems simple folk never dreamed of.... I can't speak for the Balinese, but I'd put a bet on that many despise this capitalistic plastic facade...
BB, Last month I took a drive to Port Elliot/Goolwa... Hadn't been there since 1995.... Holy shit.... Every surfer and wannabee surfer wanting a prefab beachside weekender at Middleton.... Looks like its been hit with the same crap the sunny coast copped..... And it's not even a world class wave...... I'm told Margaret River is now yuppy central.... Thank god the S.A surf community did something about Yorkes, or it'd be next....
Name one exotic Surf location (a grade surf) discovered between 1970 and 2010 that hasn't had the shit developed out of it.... We find it... promote it.... Leave it to the governments and developers, and move on...... When it turns to shit, we say "hey but we brought you mirrors and alcohol"... lol
Thanks Sheepie all the best for 2016. My understanding is that Kuta was designated for tourist development and even going back to the seventies the majority of tourist staying there weren't surfers, it was like the final stop on the hippie trail. As for its present state I can't see how that could be blamed on surfers. I agree many Balinese hate what has happened, many had a good life before tourism but the Bukit has the worst soils on the island. The people there were seriously poor and surfers raised their standard of living immediately and permanently. I haven't been up there for a while but in all my numerous trips I never heard anyone say anything against the development we brought. Complaints about individual people and individual issues ( shit hill was a big worry) but never any general wish that we would go away.
Oh and you don't really want me to start listing all those prime undeveloped locations across the archipelago, do you?
" I haven't been up there for a while but in all my numerous trips I never heard anyone say anything against the development we brought"
So we did bring the development?
"Oh and you don't really want me to start listing all those prime undeveloped locations across the archipelago, do you?"
Give it time and you wont have to.... I'm sure I'll see them advertised lol
We definitely brought development to Uluwatu. That is what I was talking about and, having witnessed living conditions there early on, I can't think it was a bad thing.
As for the undeveloped spots there are quite a few that I know of which are unlikely to be developed beyond the surf camp stage for the foreseeable future so yeh you might see them advertised but you are not going to see anything like Kuta for a long time. Probably never.
Hi, not the most appropriate place to put this but anyone spent time at Canggu in the wet season? How about Balian? OK for waves or don't even bother?
Cheers.
Sheepdog wrote:Well, no barberino.. it's not OUR fault... Never is OUR fault, aye... I mean, "we" travel to far flung corners of the globe in the self indulgent pursuit of a 20 second rush.. We photograph it, write about it, make surf movies about it to narcissistically get off on seeing the envy, "being the first"... Even had stock market listed companies go on "the search" back in the days when money was flowing.... But it's never our fault... When it's "save the dolphins" or "surfing for a cause", we're just one big happy family.... But when faced with the negatives surfing has created, we scatter like rats.... Nope, I got nothing to do with that horrid development going on over in Indo.... I had nothing to do with the destruction of the gold coast, the urban sprawl of the sunny coast, the yuppyization of Byron, the prefab delight of Victorias' surf coast, the ugliness of J bay, The millionaires delight of Maui, the wall to wall traffic of the North shore, the owning of islands in Fiji, the destruction of paradise in the Maldives etc etc etc .... None of this has anything to do with me, even though I bought the mags, I read the articles, I saw the movie.... I deny any part of it.... ;) And I'm sure it wont happen to the next "secret revealed".....
No, I didn't have anything to do with that.
Unless I can also put my hand up for the invention of flight because I've been on a plane.
Scatter your shot enough and you can hit anything, but quite frankly, all the above is dribble.
blindboy wrote:Thanks Sheepie all the best for 2016. My understanding is that Kuta was designated for tourist development and even going back to the seventies the majority of tourist staying there weren't surfers, it was like the final stop on the hippie trail. As for its present state I can't see how that could be blamed on surfers. I agree many Balinese hate what has happened, many had a good life before tourism but the Bukit has the worst soils on the island. The people there were seriously poor and surfers raised their standard of living immediately and permanently. I haven't been up there for a while but in all my numerous trips I never heard anyone say anything against the development we brought. Complaints about individual people and individual issues ( shit hill was a big worry) but never any general wish that we would go away.
Yeah Tourism in Bali goes way way back to long before surfers but has gone through many different phases (that book Bali Heaven and Hell document it good), i guess surfers were more like the petrol added to the fire.
It would be interesting to see what Bali would be like if there wasn't any decent waves, Thailand has crap surf and its still got similar problems and similar tourism destination.
Im sure Bali would still have a large local population if it wasn't for tourism just like Java as its very fertile with a good rainfall (Things change at the lombok strait- Wallace line)
Don't get me wrong tourism and surfers have fuelled lots of problem in Bali BUT many of these problems like pollution over development or just development that ruins nature etc are seen all over Indonesia and outside of tourist areas and also all over Asia, I'm sure even Sibolga was a nice little fishing village once.
Like i said in a thread the other day in regards to Nias (sorake) although the development has in part destroyed the point there is also other aspects that surfers have had nothing to do with for example, the tsunami and lifting of reef and the biggest problem is sand mining by locals for the use of cement make cement bricks etc sadly this is just development, people want to move out from wooden shacks too more western style houses, with or without surfing this would happen.
Those poor asians are the victims of the evil whitey.
Won't somebody think of the poor , little Asians ?
zenagain wrote:
Haha!! Classic!! The hooks are set, hang on tight........
Gday, Indo.... Unlike our resident racist, and a couple of clowns, at least you've got a grip on the thread... It's more than a "Indo" issue.... But you're intelligent enough to get that....
Have you ever taken a drive up the east coast of Australia, Indo? Say Sydney to Cooktown?..... Where the decent surf stops, due to the Barrier reef, it's like 2 different worlds..... South of the barrier reef is wall to wall crass development... Concentrated... Super concentrated around quality surf breaks.. Noosa, Coolum, Maroochy/kawana/Caloundra... The whole gold coast.... Tweed - Byron - Yamba etc etc etc etc.... All the way to Sydney.... I can't comment on south of Sydney coz I havent spent much time there... But I'd assume Kiama batemans bay Merimbula has changed incredibly.....
But now drive north of Fraser Is.... Different world.... yeah some spots like Cairns/ port douglas/ Whtisundays are developed, due to the fishing/sailing fraternity, but thousands of Km's of coastline pretty well the same as it has been for ages...... And it has one of the worlds wonders at it's doorstep..... But lets picture Cardwell with a smoking hot Left reef.... Etty Bay innisfail with a Dbah like wedge.... Those endless right points from yorkeys knob to port douglas looking like Bali in the mirror....
So anyone who thinks surfing and surf exploration doesn't bring in fast tracked development is an idiot.... Whether that development is good/bad/indifferent is a totally separate issue..
Resident rascist ...you never fail to live down to my expectations Sheepy.
I just had a cheerful breakfast with a virtual UN of mates .... 6 different nationalities represented, whilst you were gnashing your teeth over the injustices of the world as viewed through the prism of your TV .
I just got back from a foreign country , getting waves with my brown skinned, Asian mates, whilst you were wringing your hands with assumed guilt over the way us xenophobic,oppressive Aussies disrespect our poor fellow Earthlings.
Oh me, oh my...what can but one brave Sheepdog do to halt the tide of barbarian whiteys from further exploiting a country that he'd never dream of visiting.
Strange how you cant comment on South coast Nsw , but you can comment on Kuta, in a country that you've never set foot because , to quote yourself -
" The idea of leaving my home country always left a foul taste in my mouth, and the locals religious beliefs led me to grief ."
From the golden age of fear comments thread by Sheepdog .
Development is caused by greedy people.
I've never profited or exposed a location.
To claim that I had a hand in the yuppification of Byron stretches anyone's imagination don't you think ?
Never let the truth get in the way of a good guilt trip though.
Bali was actually pretty mellow till the tourists / Euro / Asian market got stuck in.
A few surfers warungs were never out of context with the location.
As for Kuta, that's not even where the waves are.
Think of the whole East Coast of Bali, waves everywhere but virtually zero impact from surfers themselves.
Save the recent atrocities at Keramas of course.
Which anyone should be disgusted with.
As for the Goldy - you really think that had anything to do with the surf ?
If it did then the towers of Surfers itself would be all over Burleigh headland rather than on the shitful stretch of Surfers beachies.
Think of G Land, Gnaraloo, Angourie, Margies, Deserts, Scars, Supersuck , Periscopes, Cactus, Bluff, Ningaloo, ?
Really I could name hundreds of amazing wave that are no more developed than any corresponding section of coast that surrounds them. Not to anywhere near the point of ruination or beyond that as you'd expect as most of those places are beautiful and inviting of themselves even without the factoring in the pull of good waves.
Surfers are mostly low impact.
Surfers don't require theme parks or man made attractions to hold their attention.
Hats off to surfers, if only the rest of the population was as graceful upon the surface of the Earth.
I have to agree with you Sheepdog, the connection is something I have always seen and felt- it is a classic example of humankind basically shooting itself through the foot from lack of clarity. Many people just live for now and for themselves with not one iota of care or thought for the consequences of their actions. .Or putting two and two together. Boils down to greed at the end of the day.That and plain stupidity. The classic " wow its so beautiful here and pristine, waves are perfect, uncrowded , let's build a hut and live here, then why don't we build more huts so that we can invite more mates to share it with cos now we miss their company, then why don't we build a few more and rent them out make some money, then - we need to upgrade our technological resources so we can be better 'connected etc" maybe build a few more huts, stuff it lets throw in a pool why the f not? good for the wives n kids, then - wow the waves are crowded these days, so much pollution and plastic - terrible, those locals have no idea... maybe its time to look for a new place.." etc etc etc..
Doggie you're off your head mate, coastal development has been booming in Qld, mostly fueled by the mining boom. Mackay, Townsville, Rocky and Yeppoon etc etc etc all gone through the roof. There are more drivers to coastal development than surfing.
Are you for real, FR? Are you on the beach up there? lol
BTW, Rocky isn't on the coast...... Townsville is a provincial city with a defence base, Yeppoon was developed by the Japs under Sir Joh..... You're comparing Rocky to port D stretch to the Noosa - Sydney stretch? And you reckon they match???
Maybe read Freeride's second sentence again Sheepy.
All I see on the East coast are mostly small beach towns.
Not massive development.
People have to live somewhere.
Zinger!!!!!!! Did I name who the racist was? Rabbit68 - Now that's how to bait a hook!!!! bahahahahaha....
"Strange how you cant comment on South coast Nsw"
Open your fucking eyes mate..... Firstly it was in the context of "driving up the east coast", and secondly, I did comment with an assumption - "But I'd assume Kiama batemans bay Merimbula has changed incredibly....."
"I just had a cheerful breakfast with a virtual UN of mates .... 6 different nationalities represented"
They'd be your mates from the SAS, right?
Isn't it amazing how some of us surfers lose their shit when confronted with the realities of our contribution to coastal development.....
Clown? I failed miserably at being a clown. Two semesters at clown college and they kicked me out- said I wasn't taking it seriously. They suggested I become a human cannonball as it would more suit a man of my calibre.
You should lighten up a little precious, life is too short. I'd imagine you'd be a riot at parties.
But to address your post, do you really think that surfers have a direct correlation with development, especially on the east coast? Maybe a little but i think you're overstating it a lot. Seriously, what percentage of the population of those towns/cities actually surf or used to surf? Not everybody who loves the beach is a surfer, people like to fly kites, swim, fish, walk their dogs etc and the beach is great place to do it. I think most of the development is as a result of a natural migration from the big centres- Sydney/Brisbane/Melbourne/Perth and as the 'Sea Changers' move out there more opportunities open up in terms of services, construction, retail, tourism etc. I think most people go to where the work is and I think a tiny percentage of those are surfers. A large percentage may be beach/coast users but of those only a small percentage I would say are regular wave riders.
You mentioned why isn't the coast starting from say Bundaberg to Port isn't being developed that much? It is, but just not at the rate of those towns that are within relatively close proximity to the major centres. I can assure you a hundred years from now the coast north of Fraser will be a much different place. Also, it's bloody hot with crocs and mozzies, the coast between Sydney and Brissie has a much nicer climate and less bities (anecdotal I know), henceforth a nicer place to live and a lot closer to eseential services such as hospitals and schools.
The Gold Coast, Tweed, Byron area has roughly about 2 million people. What percentage of those are surfers? 1-2% at best I'd reckon. Do you think there'd be 40 thousand surfers on the Goldy? And for the millions of people that visit Bali each year, what percentage would be surfers? I'd say slightly more but I would still guess they'd be in the minority.
I kow you'll post a wordy reply complete with links, graphs, google maps, wikipedia articles and your own secret non-scientific findings gleaned from years of divining sticks and howling at the moon but it is my contention that with the exception of a few well documented examples (the mentawais and none other that I can think of) I think surfers in general have had very litte bearing on coastal development. I think the fact that we are surfers clouds our opinion a little in this.
SheepD, you are giving the surfers search way too much credibility. As you may read in the recent SN articles (eg Macaronis), those blokes were certainly not thinking about surf camps, development or tourism. You seem to be ignoring the simple effect of human population and social change. It is interesting to see what happened here in Aus. Similar but not all due to surfers. Just as you picked a few classic Aus waves, there are many that have not been developed. It takes a bit more than a quality wave for an area to be further developed and urbanised.
I should state that the surfers I am referring to here are those that really did surf these exotic locations first.
There were years where these locations were kept quiet. But the tide changes and surge of population continues.
No Sheepy, these fellows were from Australia, New Zealand, Ireland , Wales , Korea ( South ) and Phillipines.
Though to be honest Johnny ( Phillipines) just stuck his head in to say hello , but I still counted him to make up the numbers.
My SAS mates aren't anywhere near here.
They might be overseas at the moment for all I know.
I guess they just get over that foul taste that you get from visiting a foreign country with distasteful locals.
I suppose it's a bit easier if you're equiped to kill the fuckers though ?
Care to expand on your quote regarding your lack of desire to travel OS ?
It would sure add a bit of perspective on your opinions .
Or you could just pretend that I'd never mentioned it, even though it pretty much contradicts everything you utter.
Blowins bali surf trip ruined.......
I'm just picturing you in leotards and leg warmers Sheepy.
Because you're dancing around the issue with some verve , I'll grant you that.
It's not too often I'll shoot a straight out accusation, but here it is.
YOU are a xenophobe .
The horror.
Blowin... You deserve to treated with absolute contempt...... Your cut and paste of what i said in the Golden age of fear is a disgrace.... You took one line out of a joke, a send up, a lampoon...... This is why i treat you with utter disdain.....
Here's what you just posted, a quote from me ages ago;
"" The idea of leaving my home country always left a foul taste in my mouth, and the locals religious beliefs led me to grief ."
From the golden age of fear comments thread by Sheepdog ."
Here you are asking me about that line;
"Care to expand on your quote regarding your lack of desire to travel OS ?
It would sure add a bit of perspective on your opinions .
Or you could just pretend that I'd never mentioned it, even though it pretty much contradicts everything you utter."
But blowin, here's the full paragraph, an obvious lampoon;
"I tried the turquoise lagoon, But having to leave my country always put a foul taste in my mouth.... Or perhaps it was the dodgy fish.... And some locals with different religious beliefs caused me grief..... Then I got malaria... And my insurance had elapsed so I was fucked...
Tried selling produce at the market in NNSW too.... Couldn't afford the fees and got dobbed into the tax dep.
So I moved south and "cultivated"..... But the local woodchopping types called crimestoppers. It was ok though. Those six months "inside" guaranteed" me a feed, and my cellmate "pigdog" was a great kisser...."
You cut and pasted..... You tried to set me up...... You are a digrace..
Zenagain.. Nah mate... i wont reply to you with graphs/links... Stick to watching miss universe, bro...
And some locals with different religious beliefs caused me grief ....Huh ?
What's that mean exactly ?
You set your self up by trying to act the expert on world affairs and the lover of all nations.....whilst never leaving Australia.
Tell us more about the situation in Bali Sheepy.
Quick, google it.
Wikidog.
Sheepy.
You do realise that Zen lives in a foreign , utterly exotic land and that you're preaching on issues of world events to him, don't you ?
You should apply for a job with 60'minutes Sheepy.
You could send them you're extensive resume of world travel to justify your deep well of knowledge on world affairs.
Caloundra, Hobart, Iron Knob.
You'll be a shoe in.
You could do all your research on line and regurgitate the opinions of others as your own.
It'll save a shitload of travel expenses , so that's a plus in your favour.
You could watch the entire series of ....What really happens in Bali to base your first segment off.
Anyway Sheepy, you've officially just been given a free pass by myself to spew your misled opinions unobstructed by myself as We've ruined too many threads with our Upliftesque monotone disputes.
Into them Sheepy.
"Or you could just pretend that I'd never mentioned it, even though it pretty much contradicts everything you utter"...
Hypocrite... You cut and pasted... You even cut out the "dodgy fish line" to suit your narrative... Dishonest.... Admit you cut and pasted bullshit....
If you have that much of a file on me, dig out my posts on my overseas trips, you idiot...
I was in the middle east last November too.
Cmon , guys there's kids watching and its a Sunday for Christs' sake .
Sheepo you probably have an excuse cause the SA forecast looks like you may as well be in Afganistan for the next 10 days . Blowin stop goating him , I'm sure your smart enough to be exactly where the waves are at the moment ....... But probably not , judging by your dedication to this thread you maybe land locked and potentially "working " .......
As for the coastal development . Well it's got more to do with steady climate , white sand and the idea of Surfing than quality waves drawing over development . If that was the case WC SA would wall to wall cashed up yuppies ........ Oh hang in there always Pt Lincoln .
Have you been to Port elliot/goolwa/victor lately southey? Go there and tell me what you think then..
Zenagain - good for you...
Blowin.... Apart from your disgraceful cut and paste job, you are under the impression I haven't been overseas..... Bahahahahaha...... Mitchvg knows the gems I have been to, as does Stu...... You're an idiot...
SN need to remove the silly twat so hostile and just doesn't get it man... farrk.sheepie just responding to the article but some r gettin plain nasty.lightnen up fellas!
Thanks man.....
I'm disappointed you won't address my post Sheepie. I'm just fucking with you, no bad blood between us I hope.
I just personally think that you are overstating how much surfers contribute to coastal development that's all.
And I still stand by the right decision being made in the Miss Universe pageant and can fully understand how the fuck-up broke the internet and the twittersphere was suitably outraged. I can't believe that this hasn't gained more traction on Swellnet. I may be biased though as I do have a thing for Asians.
Sheepy I said quality waves .
The region you speak of is being augmented by Adelaideans trying to move to somewhere greener , and maybe a hope of seeing some swell with a south in it . But mainly sea changers /retirees .
SheepD…take the challenge, go to Merimbula and also nearby Pambula river mouth - bloody amazing when it pumps (at times). You may just find this is just simply human population with no influence from surfers.
Sheepdog wrote:Zenagain.. Nah mate... i wont reply to you with graphs/links... Stick to watching miss universe, bro...
Sheepy, if you go back thru your posts you'll find that you brought the Miss Universe topic into the thread. The rest that followed was pretty light hearted, off topic, but no harm done.
BTW clowns are known for being funny & friendly.
I think you could benefit from a few clown traits yourself :)
Tried that rabbit lol..... But when I do , trolls like Blowin cut and paste... Just go up a few posts. I was joking around in the "golden age of fear" thread and this mung bean cuts and pastes some of my jokes to make them look like legitimate comments.....
IMO rabs, this is classic Kubler Ross.... I've just moved on to acceptance, that's all.... Of course there are other variables re' development - mining etc.... But in 1960, no one was mining at Ulu, or noosa, or the maldives,..... Surfing has fast tracked development in totally unpopulated serene beautiful regions... And in classic Kubler Ross, some here have exhibited denial, and some anger......
I'm not saying I'm innocent.. I've accepted that some of the incredible waves i surfed in the 80s and 90s in regions I wont directly say, are now being developed and have "resorts" right on the island in front of the break, due to ME, yes ME and others going there 25 years ago... There was nothing there when I went.... Of course I had to brag about it when i got back, just to a couple of select mate..... "keep it a secret bro"..... Yeah right.....
But us surfers are a funny mob.... We portray this "close to nature" facade.... We ride toxic sticks, coat it with toxic stuff, fly around the world looking for new fun parks, start up "surf boat cruises", want resorts built with wifi, go pro in hand, patronizingly think "thanks to us the locals have protein with their rice, then we say "oh this place has lost it's magic", and off we go looking for the next nook to exploit for our never ending adrenalin buzz. And when you bring this up, many get defensive and click into Kubler ross stage one...
So stop freaking out people.... i'm having a go at myself as much as anyone in particular... I've been part of the machine.... But I accept that....
So to clarify, it's ok for you to joke around but if we have a bit of a dig we're clowns or lambasting you?
Fair enough Sheepy :)
I'm enjoying this thread, like many of them on SN, always some great input & insights to be had......
me too .. love your insights and intelligence SD.
http://www.smh.com.au/world/waves-of-change-and-degradation-how-surf-tou...