Where does your money go?

Nice work pete. The boardies I own are incredibly daggy and are actually bushwalking shorts, they are made from the quick dry material from the 80s and have those daggy mesh jocks sewn in - daggy but no rash whatsoever and they're onto they're 4th season (and living on the sunny coast, it's a long season of boardies).

Another alternative I came across (via a profile in the surfers journal) is birdwell britches, they make custom boardies and could not possibly be more anti mainstream if they tried. Apparently a lot of the lifeguards in Hawaii and California use them. Their website is so bad that it is unhelpful but apparently they hand make the most amazing boardies. Long lasting and comfortable. Check it out, I think I'm gonna order a pair when my current shorts wear out. https://www.birdwellbeachbritches.com/

Doesnt Rip Curl own (or part of) Surfstich? So if you buy other brands on Surfstich you are supporting Rip Curl.

Good topic & research pete_79.

Good call on the bushwalking gear benski. I have used bushwalking gear for years and found it to work perfectly and it lasts and lasts as it has been your experience. Not just shorts used as boardies but coats, socks, thermals, packs etc etc. If readers here want gear that just works without the bright colours they should check out the better bush walking shops.

Dont buy the "big" brands, spend your ca$h on the not so corporate labels.

Surfing has, is and will further develop into a selfish, self righteous, look at me now not so individual sell out.

Surf companies make enough money, not just clothing companies but also famous "label stable - shaper" factories. You know who they are.

Glamorous u tube project projects, bringing back aready prooven board designs blah blah blah.

Fair enough, but playing devils advocate... if you buy el cheapo no name shorts made in China by a non surfing co where does the profit go? At least with the big three, some money is funnelled back into developing young talent and letting a few lucky individuals live the dream of getting paid to surf/travel. It also puts money back into R & D. Just check out the advances in comfort in wetties the last few years. It also enables sponsorship of the tour - which provides entertainment for some surfers. I don't care who is world champ, but watching good surfers carving up good waves ranks just below getting out there myself and throwing a few wobbly cutbacks...

@ evo62

"if you buy el cheapo no name shorts made in China by a non surfing co "

Yeah I tried that too and it didn't work. The boardies were shockers, fell apart, rash everywhere...just bad. The hiking shorts (came from one of those specialist bushwalking shops) are good quality, dry fast, and are no more made in China than the big surf labels. But that's one of the reasons I'm gonna get a pair of those birdwell's next. Handmade in California by a family owned company and apparently tough as nails.

As far as the RnD goes, do the big three actually do the RnD? I don't know if they do or not. But The cutting edge neoprene research that I've read about has been done by Yamatoto from Japan.

Good point Benski,

Probably most of the mass produced clothing is from China, I just wonder if some of the profits go back to surfing related endeavours?

Wot about patagonia?

I do know that ripcurl own peak wetsuits and guess where they are made? CHINA!

No doubt about some of the money must go back into surfing stuff, like comps and sponsorships etc. dunno what the story is with patagonia, they're supposed to be everything friendly aren't they?

I don't think there's anything wrong with buying stuff made in china in itself. Just about everything we buy these days is made there and if we stop buying their stuff they'll stop buying ours (globalisation headache alert) but I don't specifically support the big surf labels because their stuff is so expensive for what you get. I don't know how good the latest boardies from the big companies are these days but the ones I've got aren't $90 each.

But when you start stressin too much about where the money goes when you buy stuff you do your head in I reckon. It's all a bit too serious for something that's supposed to be fun!

"The main one was the fact that there’s been no swell up on the Sunny Coast for so long that I started going a bit fruity"

Man I'm with you on that one.

Good thread though, cheers.

90$ benski?
try well over 100!!
had a mate buy a pair the other week im still laughing at him. these fashion victims out there seem mostly to be riding the brand name boards too you notice?
spending 1/2 again what they would supporting the guy down the street who loves surfing more then beating his chest telling the world how you need to buy his boards. buy local. garentee if you walk into any small factory the shaper will help you more then a glossy catalog. but hey if you have the money to throw away why not but the cool shit hey?

"We know they’ve got us by the balls with wetties,"

So I had a look round for the Yamatoto thing and so far I've found Nine Plus Surfing which makes em, that's a pommie company owned by some bloke named Richard: http://www.nineplus.com/history.php

Apparently a couple of places in Noosa stock em, http://www.nineplusaus.com/.

Also there was seventh wave in NZ where you could buy custom made wetties online made of yamatoto neoprene.

I dunno if either of those are any good, but might be worth a bit more looking around when it comes time for a new wettie. The blurb I read in Surfers Journal a year or so ago (which I am pretty sure was about yamatoto) sounded like it was good neoprene.

So many points raised.

Some guys are saying that the outdoor shops are all so much better and more ethical than surf brands. In my experience with outdoor gear the image they put forward is all about marketing and is almost as bad as the big surf brands in how much you are getting ripped off. But at least their shorts don't give you a rash.

I spend a bit of time in China and have been to many factories. You would be surprised how many different brands can come out 1 factory (no names) I normally try and buy my gear there as well, paying direct from the factory prices (virtually or sometimes free). I can't imagine what possesses anyone to pay over $100 for boardies.

Yes pretty much everything is made in China, and in my experience its the manufacturers that are doing the R+D not the surf labels. The labels come up with designs and specify which stitching, materials, seals and size to use.
I would love to be able to produce wetsuits here in Oz, but the setup and running costs means that all would end up with is a big hole of debt and some very expensive but unsellable rubber to put in the hole.
But for now I am selling/distributing Derevko wetsuits. Originating in South Africa, its no secret they are made in China. We have a few localsponsored riders, but really can't afford to pay anyone. The wetties are priced as low as possible to make the venture worth doing. www.derevkowetsuits.com

I know a couple of guys who started their own clothing label
fakie.com.au/
They haven't been bought out by anyone else yet.

Dick Smith sold to Woolies about 25 years ago.

I recently read Phil Jarrats book "Salts and Suits". Anyone interested in all this corporate surf stuff should do the same.

So all you people against the big three don't buy any of their products right? You don't watch contests, don't buy boards that have been developed by shapers that have sponsored surfers on them, don't wear wetties and certainly don't buy groceries from coles or woolies either(they're big companies too).Probably don't drive holdens,fords,toyotas or use any product that has been made by a large company. Your keeping it real and only looking after the little bloke hey?
If thats the case I admire your loyality and also wonder how you get around(caltex and bp are big companies too)what your wooden surfboards go like and how the fuck you managed to make your own computer out of bits and pieces that where lying around so you can get on this forum for a start?
If it wasn't for the surf companies must of you cunts wouldn't even have heard of surfing let alone be doing it so have a real good think about where your stuff comes from and practice what you preach with everything not just against the big three.
By the way I am not employed in the surf industry but just don't like how hipocritical some of this shit comes across by some of the half baked hippy cunts that write it.

I reckon good ol' Roy would take you to task over the wooden board jibe Seal....

seal,
true and valid points bud.

but dont tell us we cant live without a contest on our flat screen telly. that we cant have fun unless we have the ´newest´ design we ARE sold this year eg; boardies or boards.
thats a good comaprison actually.

notice the boards and clothing designs from different companies are all so similar each year? these guys are in cahoots selling you stuff you ´must have´. its no consperacy. its out there in plain veiw.

im quite sure that without advertising, the ´newest´ shapes or computers surfing would still be as enjoyable as it is today. just the marketers will have you believe otherwise.

and would it be so bad if so many didnt surf? im sure landlocked people find ways to get through their miserable lives.

i see so many blokes that are too ashamed to not be seen with the latest board or hat worn or riden by ´cool guy´ sold by ´cool brand´

wheres the big $s come from? roping in as many ´slaves´ as ´they´ can.

you think no one has a life without surfing?
im sure we all know people who dont surf but can better then many who cant surf well but do.
it makes my life better i know but i wouldnt be dead now or a religious bomber if i couldnt surf.

our world is run but profiteers. and their minions are the ones ridding on their coat tails. we are all recruited to play some part in anothers struggle for power. its all but impossible to avoid if like me you enjoy some level of western comforts but it dosent hurt to think for yourself on occasian.

if i was a hippy i wouldnt live where i do and surf what i surf so no childish responsers please.

Lets see how the world of surfing would be without commercialisim and profiteers.
For a start it would be fucking cold in winter, you see the big companies have made fantastic progress with wetsuit design, they are so much warmer. Boardshorts, well they are way better now than they have ever been. Watches, fuck my Rip Curl watch tells me the tide, awesome. Surfboards, well I like the way my new board goes, but without research and development I would still be on a shit old sinmgle fin.
Who gives a fuck about the big 3, without them we would be a long way behind where we are now. As for all the outdoor wear from mountaineering shops, it looks plain crap.

antifroth,

For starters, as lostclimber pointed out, billabong etc aren't doing much (if any) the RnD, it's the fabric manufacturers. So we don't have much to thank them for our boardies and wetties.

As for board shapes, who do you think made the developments in boards? Was it really billabong and Quickie? or was it people like Donald Takayama, Simon Anderson, Carl Ekstrom, the Campbell brothers and Bob McT? We owe little or no thanks to billabong etc for significant surfboard developments. They do put some nice stickers on them though, that billabong logo is timeless isn't it?

Great your rip curl watch tells you the tide but so does my computer, my tide chart from the fishing shop, my TV and my radio. Lucky for you though, you've got a watch in case you can't get to any of those.

So yeah, who gives a shit about the big companies, not me, but let's face it they don't have a lot to claim as far as developments in surfing goes. They make some cash out of it, and hell good on em, but they haven't improved surfing for any of us.

Some nice boardies and no corpo shit on this site.

http://www.thaliasurf.com/

antifroth
Is that a contest shirt your wearing in your photo?

Dunno Benski,

A mate of mine is just a tooth in one of the many cog's that is the great fillabong machine and they've given him the opportunity to design a board in cahoots with an affiliated board manufacturer. He's been told if it goes OK they just 'might' put it into production. No doubt it won't be a big design revolution, or probably a big seller either, but if it goes good and makes him stoked them it has achieved it's purpose in my book, even if they only make one. I guess the point is he's not a pro/big/small name surfer and wouldn't have the same opportunity unless they had provided it.

Not quite on the whole Fred Hollows scale of things, but at least it is something (am I defending the indefensible here?)

Edit: I think Billabong own JS?

Pablo - yep it is a contest rashi and i won that event, cheers mate.
Benski - Who designes surfers wetsuits then? Also did you know that Rip Curl made boards way before they made wetsuits?
The big companies started out small and the market grew because they were innovative in surfing and the products needed for comfort in and around the surf.

@ mr frother, a watch can do all that? your off your head. this thread is about having a conciencious mind when distributing the tiny amount of influence an individual has. dont try and drag us down to your level of mindless corportate (or as bad) wannabe corporate arse licking.

@evo i dont get whats so special about that comment? any one can shape a board its really not that hard. sounds like they are buttering him up or somthing? really dont get it. but it worked on you too. goes to show why they are where they are; convincing public they are worthy of your support.

like ripcurl billabong charges a little more to put their stickers on other companies boards. dont get that either?
never wonderd why in an instant most the top billabong guys are riding js´s? youd have to be bind not to see they are taking you for a ride.

pete the big names wernt the only ones contributing to board design they were and still are the best sales men and glory hounds. if you talk to a few old boys youd be amazed at what was going on back then. theres like 3 totally different evolution of surfing therorys and thats through the mainstream media!

its impossible to get all our money to where it should go but we can try. i like to spend my money on travel not the newest boardies and a suit wearing man to take profit from a chunk of foam that has a bloke like me doing all the actual making of the board. so you know, quicksilver owns base their shapers are not the sales men with stickers on the boards!

A bit of background, I have been involved with surfing since 1972 so have seen alot of changes and meet alot of people in that time.Know people in all of the big 3 and have even been to the head offices of two of them. I'm no expert but having seen some of their workings from the inside I can definetly say your wetsuits are the way they are nowdays thanks to the R/D done by those companies. Yes I have tried other brands,even made locally(who are now made overseas also)and have found except for one american companies suits,are nowhere as warm or last as long as the big three's wetties.Those companies still do R/D on wetties, boardies and bikinis with some of the best surfers actually being the ones doing it.

Sure, I don't like paying through the teeth for named brands either but when the alternative is not as good, I'll shell out the money and be happy to be warm knowing that I'll probably get a couple of seasons out of them.
Some of the shapers I know are tied up with the big three also and others I know wish that they were. A couple are happy not to be involved with them at all but then whinge about not being able to make money or sell enough boards to keep them secure so have to get other jobs to supplement their incomes then blame the big 3 for their predicement.

As for team riders riding boards ie JS,owned by the companies that is because their contract would have that in place(Billabong top riders get JS as many as 20 per year)

What I was getting at with the other companies ie holden ect, was everybody is happy to slag the corporates in surfing but then still support the other major coporates who probably don't put near as much back into the community as what the big three put back into surfing.Sure their trying to promote their products, but isn't that smart business sense. To see a young grom who has just got a spono from one of the big 3 companies and the joy that they get from it is enough for me to keep supporting them.

Thats my take on it and I haven't even sworn or taken the piss out of anyone. Must be ill!

well said seal,
liked the bit about the grom most.(no piss take)

although i see him as a minion dragging his friends (and you) in to support their money grabing machine.

like i dont believe any one should be rich on the backs of their ´minions´.

many treat their possitions like the pope waving from his little window. come back down super cool sponnoes, ´shapers´, company executives and hangers on. your shit stinks too.

also know some ´all of the aboves´ can be top blokes.

im not a communist...or am i. ive read people say communisim in theory works. i think hommer said it to! but hey, im not very political. just dont like too much segragation in my world. breeds hate.

i heard a while back a certain shapper flooded the bali market with help from a bloke in customs over there. got him where he is.
same guy i hear is in huge debt today. selling more boards then most too.

like other big name shapers are doing the most buisness but seem to be struggling. have to ask why? reaching to far out? team riders? advertising? coke habits?

an obvious unassuming answer would be as simple as saying they themselves have been pulled into the vortex of an uncontrolable money chasing lifestyle.
its what i think we are arguing against hear. well i am.

saying that id say its not even the big 3 thats is the real problem but you have to start somwhere.

When you see something in a big retail shop for $80, it cost them $10 to make it.

The shops pay $40 for it.
They buy it off a distributor who gets it for $20 from the creator.

Your $80 pair of shorts cost $10 to make.

When I see a young grommet with a sponsorship from the big three I usually see some ego tripping little wanker trying to snake me, when he should be at school learning something
that has a reasonable chance of supporting him in the future. what percetage of the wannabe,s become Kelly Slaters?. What becomes of the rest? Do the big fella's pay pay in too their supers? Seems to me very few come out the other end..With the probability that the global econonic down turn has only only just begun I'd be having a good look behind the next set.

I like to be corrected, if the big 3 are doing R&D on wetties then that's great. I would assume that Oneill (which from observation whilst in USA is by far the biggest seller over there) is also researching.

malibu - yes everytime time a product changes hands, someone ads in their cut. But they are providing a service and have costs of their own to cover. Its a risk we take and without adding a profit, why would anyone do it?
If you can get over to China, India .... and buy the product straight from the factory then sure you can have the boardies for $10 each. But you will probably have to purchase a minimum of 500 pairs.
The other option is to find a black market stall or factory outlet. It will still cost about $1300 in airfares.

I still wear the brands, have no problem with them making money its all just business really. However I have no need for the this years latest, so only ever buy old stuff at reduced prices.

If you don't like the corporatisation, then by all means don't buy the product, but that doesn't mean we should all get about in hemp sacks and ride boards that we shaped out of driftwood.

Fair points seal, and yeah happy to be corrected too.

But I'll avoid the big three companies where possible (I own one Quickie wettie and that's it) because there are cheaper alternatives that do just as well or better.

And as said earlier, they do put money back into surfing, unlike Sierra or whoever made my hiking shorts/boardies. But I don't think they are some examples of sainthood in surfing and I really don't think they are responsible for major innovations in surfing. Certainly not in board design.

So it's good to know who owns what so if you do give a shit (whether it be because you hate big companies so you shape your own boards and drive a subaru, or maybe you got sacked by quicksilver or something), if you do give a shit you can understand where your cash goes. But for sure, nothin wrong with them trying to promote their products.

evo,

yeah fair enough too. I'm not having a go at em in the sense that they do support surfing and your mate's a prime eg of that and how that could lead to a new design or something. But I would reckon most of the things we take for granted in a surfboard shape (rail types, outlines, volume, even materials) have come from outside the big companies. BUt you know, thinking about it, I really don't know for sure. THat's just my impression from the reading I've done about shapers through the years. I've got no contact with anyone in the machine, so I'll concede that if I'm honest...I'm talking out of my arse a bit!

Pablo you are a real dickhead and benski you are talking out of your arse.
Seal you are spot on the money.
And Benski you will find that the big 3 have had an influence on surfboard design but you are just too blnd to notice it.

cool, so tell me how antifroth. What parts of board design can they claim?

Pete, are you talking about the lack of surf advertising on the site, compared to what you'd see in a magazine?

For what its worth, we don't consciously decide who can advertise (it's all handled by our advertising agency anyway).

dont really want to judge you anti froth. (well maybe i do) you sound like you are lost in the sponoed, surf to please other sponnos/judges, world. ripping on crew(not in the surfing sence) thinking you superiour to them.

pablo made perfect sence voicing his opinion.

were or are you that ego tripper? id bet yes. i know plenty of peeps in the machine who are honest decent people.

get that extended shortboard outta your arse and look at your self.

surfers and shapers influece board design not corperations.

the world would be spinning (with happy surfers) without any corporate surf companies.
there would also be a lot less dicks in the water like anti froth.

Yep, the big 3 don't influence board design, it is and was the shapers and surfers. Some of those surfers and shapers are involved with the companies though ie slater.
Most of the early design changes were before the 3 got huge and started selling boards, back when McTavish, McCoy, Greenough, Brock and Anderson made the biggest changes.
But they did and still do have major influence on wetsuit, boardshort, bikini and other apparell design.
If the big 3 disappeared right now,sure we could all continue to surf and maybe the crowds might thin a little but the companies that produce the goods that are left would soon become bigger and become the big 3 again in their own right. They would have to so they could keep up with the demand for their products.
Unfortunatly even if you don't like corporate companies they are a necesary evil and will only be replaced by the next cab on the rank if they were to fall over.
Nobody is going to make you buy their products and if you choose to buy from a lesser company good luck to you, but without the big 3 your wettie would not have been as good as it is now, that I am certain of.
And without the big 3 there would still be plenty of dicks in the water, that is just human nature. You can go back in time before the big 3 and there was still dickheads in the water but just not wearing surf design!

One good way to thin out the crowds would be to get rid of contests and 'champions'.

If there were no 'champions' they would have no faces to push product.

If we got rid of contests there would be no 'world champion' no 'top 44', no sponsored kids and the whole thing would fall on its arse.

Sure, don't buy the big companies shit, but if you really want to help you are going to have to get to the root of the problem.

The root of the problem is contest surfing.

I have surfed long enough to see the beginnings of a local surf co then the growth and then the invariable sell out to a magor co (Peak wetsuits being my example).
I still buy a pair of Billies boardies, they seem to last and serve the purpose better than any non surfing brand, they always have. Same with wetties etc who the fwark makes surfing gear better than the big surf companies.
I would like to support my local wetsuit maker (Zee) but there suits are pretty well ancient style and not a good as the big co brands, have tryed them and went back to ripcurl.
I dont surf comps but want decent gear that lasts so I buy surf gear which has proved to go the distance. I am sure most surfers on this site want the same out of there equipment as like anything it pays to buy some sort of quality than buying cheap junk.
I dont have surf stickers on my car way past the image, I did when I was a grommet, the image was as important as making a tube back then and I am sure for gromms these days it still is.