Advice for better surfboard durability? Firewire, vs PU 4x4x4 vs 4x6x4

How 'bout Diverse Surfboards?
Dave uses a bunch of new tech cloths in his custom shapes.

Does he still use diff materials now he is Bali based ?

Scrubbed em myself and had them laminated in a local factory
Most glassers have access to s cloth
It's just the big name brands don't use it routinely cause it's a bit more expensive and the weave is more visible
If your selling 100 boards a week and you can save $25 a board.?? You get the picture

caml wrote:

Not all boards feel dead as they age . I have old classics that still go off becos the glassing is strong and not much has changed during its 30-40 yr life . I think a lot of that is the rider getting bored and finding the limits of each shape .

That sounds right.....i pull out out some old boards that still go sweet......but with different boards you end up in different places

mcsc wrote:

saltman wrote:

Until recently had all my PU/PE boards (lite but not pro lite foam) in S cloth 4+4 and 4
and have been very happy with durability

Switched to epoxy glassing and standard 4+4 and 4. durability a simuilar to S cloth - but lighter and definitely retained a bit more flex

Recent board when EPS and epoxy - ridiculously lite so glassed 6+4 and 6 . Still very lite and am expecting it to be durable
Picking up a PU board in same glass schedule as the EPS today so it will be interesting to see how the decks compare after a few months

I am starting to think you can go too lite

Which shaper did you get the boards with s-cloth from Saltman?

Anyone else reading this thread know of shapers in SE Qld who have experience with s-cloth?

Just a wee bit more expensive nothing too tech

udo wrote:

Does he still use diff materials now he is Bali based ?

Yep, you can still get dynocores from Bali, not sure about the goldy. I've had 6 dynocores and creased all but one, they were definitely lighter and more impact resistant than other boards I've had but not convinced they were more durable over all

mcsc wrote:

saltman wrote:

Scrubbed em myself and had them laminated in a local factory
Most glassers have access to s cloth
It's just the big name brands don't use it routinely cause it's a bit more expensive and the weave is more visible
If your selling 100 boards a week and you can save $25 a board.?? You get the picture

Yep, gotcha

Btw, durability aside - which one of the boards you mentioned was your favourite performance wise?

The next one is my fav

Actually testing it out in indo next few weeks so will confirm

Hi everyone. I ride firewire boards. I'm 108kgs and surf heavy breaks on the south coast Nsw. I have had 6oz pu boards, lasted 12 months before breaking. Heaps of impressions on the deck. Firewire fst a few impressions on the deck and lasted 2yrs before snapping. Firewire LFT lasted 8 months before creasing. With LFT it shattered the rails every 4th surf..Firewire rapid it didn't shatter but creased within 3 surfs. Got fixed same again. Fst is the way to go. Spoke to firewire they will even put extra laminate on deck for a little extra price. They do break and cost 935 but i believe worth it for big boned surfers.

mcsc wrote:

toosha wrote:

Hi everyone. I ride firewire boards. I'm 108kgs and surf heavy breaks on the south coast Nsw. I have had 6oz pu boards, lasted 12 months before breaking. Heaps of impressions on the deck. Firewire fst a few impressions on the deck and lasted 2yrs before snapping. Firewire LFT lasted 8 months before creasing. With LFT it shattered the rails every 4th surf..Firewire rapid it didn't shatter but creased within 3 surfs. Got fixed same again. Fst is the way to go. Spoke to firewire they will even put extra laminate on deck for a little extra price. They do break and cost 935 but i believe worth it for big boned surfers.

Thanks toosha, what you've said about FST and their other tech matches up with everything I've heard about Firewire. It'll be interesting which direction the company goes with Slater as owner. Seems Firewire want to go more LFT, while diehard Firewire fans only want FST

I don't think Firewire want to go more LFT, i think it's more about markets.

LFT is the most similar in looks and perhaps feel to a standard surfboard with a centre stringer opposed to parabolic rails, if you look at the models only available in LFT they are more HP boards you would expect aimed at better surfers or younger surfers, LFT allows an easier transition from a standard PU/Poly board as even if only mental its not as radical than say a jump to FST with the parabolic rails and composite deck skins or Timber tek.

The downside of this, is they may get more surfers to give there boards a go, but the benefits of durability are not there, and many people don't understand FST is way more durable, so the danger is people buy one, it dings up then think FW boards aren't that durable.

FST is aimed at surfers looking for more durability while still having a high level of performance, this can include good surfers and young surfers, but also includes a big market of more mature surfers and yes plenty of kooks.

Timber tek is after a similar market but also more environmental type surfers, and even a hipster surfer crowd, id expect lots of Robs models will be available in this tech.

Initially i think FW started a bit too radical, they talked the product up too much, and the first boards with the plugs looked cheap and plastic like, same deal with the bamboo decks they looked cheap, the white rapidfire was in the right direction but lacked durability compared to FST, I think they have made some good decisions in the last few years, it will be interesting to see where they go next, but the way i see it, i don't think they will change the mix of techs too much, i think they have found a good balance now.

Anyway that's my take on things.

Yeah that is true and well im one of them, id really like a FW Tomo EVO but will only get one when/if they come out in FST.

I think its more a thing though among guys who have had a few FW boards though.

mcsc wrote:

saltman wrote:

Scrubbed em myself and had them laminated in a local factory
Most glassers have access to s cloth
It's just the big name brands don't use it routinely cause it's a bit more expensive and the weave is more visible
If your selling 100 boards a week and you can save $25 a board.?? You get the picture

Yep, gotcha

Btw, durability aside - which one of the boards you mentioned was your favourite performance wise?

They are varied shapes but the I get the feeling that the PU and epoxy combo is the liveliest . EPS dents real easy even with 4&6 on the deck so probably benefits needs some of the more high tech materials like innegra. and also the extra bouyancy needs to accounted for in the shape.

I am getting a PU in standard glassing schedule and will be interested to see if it feels much different

what model mcsc?

CD wrote (some time back, sorry mate, only just saw it):

Hey Wingnut,
I've had a bit of a play around on the software, but haven't stepped up to get a blank cut. Have been a bit unsure I guess with what I'm putting out.
Do you play around much with the rails and with putting in concaves. Or just keep it basic and fine tune these details after its cut.
What AKU package do you think you need to sign up too.
Are the features in the backyarder OK for putting out a few boards.

cheers mate."

I tweak the rails in the software. I do 98% of the "shaping" in the software, so it is then only the nose, tail and removing the ridge lines (i.e. scrubbing the blank). The first one I did was flat bottom, next one had slight concave out of the software, but now, knowing how accurate the software and machine cut process is I'm 100% confident to design in the software.

The "backyarder" is the version I used until I found the next version up had some extra's to help me.

Hey mcsc, what size Firewire amigo did you get? Reading your first post, you're about the same height and weight as me when I'm not surf fit. I can shed a few kgs when surfing a lot, so have found most of my boards work for me at around the 32 litre mark. If I'm up at 95kg, I'd want a bit more float under me, so looking at the Firewire dimensions chart, a 6'2" would be about right for me. Just curious how that fits with you?

S-cloth is definitely the go if it's avaiLable but harder to come by. It's a denser weave. If you see it without resin you will instantly see why it is better. One of my shapers used it exclusively for many years, but stopped as it was difficult to source.

It is is, apparently harder to wet down properly too so a good glasser is necessary. I think most factory glassers are production line guys who don't necessarily put in that effort.

For many years I have been getting 6x6 decks and 6 bottoms. I hate snapping boards, but I am in SW WA so it is more of an issue than in lots of other parts of Australia.

Performance wise, it makes bugger all difference unless you are a real ripper. I swap boards with mates and we surf the same. The board may feel different and surfing is a lot about feel, but I still snap in the pocket and carve exactly the same. The blokes I surf better than I still surf better than on my boards, and the blokes who surf better than me still surf better than me on my boards. An extra kilo of glass - if that - for a bloke who weighs 90kgs is bugger all. Maybe if you are popping airs it matters. But even allowing for the weighting and unweighting of surfing, any claim to a significant performance difference is dreamland to me.

I haven't snapped a board in 16 years since I started with the triple 6 and I have had 17 boards in that time. Most of the decks are in pretty good knick, if not pristine.

Why so many boards? Well you need a small, medium, big and scare yourself quiver here. Plus different bottoms to be played with, different rockers, shapes etc. Yes I am a bit of a board whore. Having said all that, the epoxy Webber gutter lover I have has stood up remarkably well. It's an absolutely shit board though.

Oh yeah, I pretty much keep every board I buy as they all go well just different. I have a cheap immaculate Gutter Lover for sale though.

S-cloth is definitely the go if it's avaiLable but harder to come by. It's a denser weave. If you see it without resin you will instantly see why it is better. One of my shapers used it exclusively for many years, but stopped as it was difficult to source.

It is is, apparently harder to wet down properly too so a good glasser is necessary. I think most factory glassers are production line guys who don't necessarily put in that effort.

For many years I have been getting 6x6 decks and 6 bottoms. I hate snapping boards, but I am in SW WA so it is more of an issue than in lots of other parts of Australia.

Performance wise, it makes bugger all difference unless you are a real ripper. I swap boards with mates and we surf the same. The board may feel different and surfing is a lot about feel, but I still snap in the pocket and carve exactly the same. The blokes I surf better than I still surf better than on my boards, and the blokes who surf better than me still surf better than me on my boards. An extra kilo of glass - if that - for a bloke who weighs 90kgs is bugger all. Maybe if you are popping airs it matters. But even allowing for the weighting and unweighting of surfing, any claim to a significant performance difference is dreamland to me.

I haven't snapped a board in 16 years since I started with the triple 6 and I have had 17 boards in that time. Most of the decks are in pretty good knick, if not pristine.

Why so many boards? Well you need a small, medium, big and scare yourself quiver here. Plus different bottoms to be played with, different rockers, shapes etc. Yes I am a bit of a board whore. Having said all that, the epoxy Webber gutter lover I have has stood up remarkably well. It's an absolutely shit board though.

Oh yeah, I pretty much keep every board I buy as they all go well just different. I have a cheap immaculate Gutter Lover for sale though.

totally agree.

My experience with getting a PU board that lasts is as follows:
Get a custom made board so the you can have input into the build.
Get a good blank: Surfblanks have lasted well in my experience.
Make sure the deck is lightly skinned. (The deeper they go the softer it gets.)
Get a 4+6 +4 glass job as minimum.
Use Colan surfboard cloth. Aus made not bleached or washed and therefor is 30% stronger. Board won't be brilliant white and will have a very slight greenish tinge. If you supply the cloth yourself as I did it added $40 to the price of a 6'6''. You can purchase the cloth from a number of distributors. Contact Colan direct for info on nearest distributor.
Nothing worse than having a magic board disintegrate after 12months.

Wallman is right

Our E-Glass Direct size cloth is made by Colan, and it makes a difference but its not about being "washed" its actually about being "baked" which cheaper overseas cloths are.

Other E- glass is baked which melts the glass (to take off the silicon which is used to make it easier to weave - need to heat up the glass to melt off the silicon or resin wouldn't soak through) and makes it weaker.

"Direct size" E-glass is 20-30% stronger so not much weaker than "baked" S-glass but cheaper.

"Make sure the deck is lightly skinned. (The deeper they go the softer it gets.)"

Here is why 90% of people think modern light glassing is to blame for deck compressions. As Caml talked about earlier foam density is paramount and PU blanks are denser closer to the surface. Hand shaping means you can take all the foam off the bottom of the board leaving just a once over with the planer on the deck. Unfortunately machines cant do this. They source the shape from the middle of the blank taking equal amounts off top and bottom.

.

Is Jimmy legit or full of shit ?

View this post on Instagram

Dr Mark Panhuis would be keen to do a comparision strength test / Send one over Jim

Gary Mcneil uses flax bio resin on a lot of rastas boards and rasta says he still hasnt broken one. very small dents in the deck and he's heavy footed. this method is $450 dearer than normal glassing but worth it.
even though im still waiting for mine im sure it will last like rasta boards.

groundswell wrote:

Gary Mcneil uses flax bio resin on a lot of rastas boards and rasta says he still hasnt broken one. very small dents in the deck and he's heavy footed. this method is $450 dearer than normal glassing but worth it.
even though im still waiting for mine im sure it will last like rasta boards.

just saw this , and yeah Jim doesn't really know much if he is claiming marine resin is stronger there fore less breakages.....so much depends on the spine of the board or as we call it the Stringer........we now know laminated stringers are a lot stronger than just plain wood.....and even wider laps in glassing makes the boards stronger and less susceptible to snapping....get a triple stringer and your board is unbreakable......
The flax/bio resin is great for stringerless boards usually used on EPS blanks , as Flax is a poor mans carbon......and epoxy is always stronger and longer lasting than polyester.....
I actually won the 2015 Boardroom Show in Del Mar, best designed, best technology.......Marko recycled EPS blank , all bio resin with Flax used Top and Bottom....
.the best is PU blank/laminated Stringer/ infusion bio epoxy.....

@brutus , are you currently shaping ? I understand your health issues at the moment and just wondering ? I put a order in and haven’t heard back .

Supafreak wrote:

@brutus , are you currently shaping ? I understand your health issues at the moment and just wondering ? I put a order in and haven’t heard back .

my young manager did a runner a couple of weeks ago.....just found our email reply coming....health is OK....still shaping and designing....have just been setback a mth or so.....still/again LOL

Cheers Brutus

Hope he didn't do a runner with your hard earned cash Brutus

seaslug wrote:

Hope he didn't do a runner with your hard earned cash Brutus

WORSE!!!!!!

That's fucked

Hey Guys,
I'm 6'4 and 120kg and the most durable construction I've used is Thunderbolt technologies. Currently have 3 longboards (2 Harley Ingleby, 1 CJ Nelson) one of which is going on 3 years with only a minor deck depression from my knee (yes I can duck dive a 70 liter longboard). With Thunderbolt now being owned by Firewire maybe it will make its way into the shortboard range (yet to try Harley Ingleby's midlenths though). As far as shortboards go I've always gone with handshaped, quality blank and heavy glass.

I've got a T&C custom sidewinder/flux hybrid 6'3 34L round tail and a standard dimensions/materials 6'4" flux 35.9L. Sidewinder used 'S' glass and a core 'red' blank. Both of those materials are extra strong and light weight and the difference between those 2 boards is quite remarkable. Sidewinder is like an F1 compared to the flux, considerable weight difference, had them 18 months-2 yrs and bugger all very minor compressions in the sidewinder. Looooooove that board! Check out different lightweight glass such as S-glass and absolutely check out CORE series blanks. Red is a bit of a mid tier but I think they have blue and green?, not sure, which are even lighter and stronger.