Vaccinate or not

Reading back to Greenjam...no need to apologize.
Supafreak's thread is the right place to share.
Ok! So where not qualified experts...but we are very supportive of crew & family.
Very heavy story to tell when it hits home & even tougher to share.
Crew wish good health to your father, yourself + family and friends.

https://fee.org/articles/daily-covid-deaths-in-sweden-hit-zero-as-other-...

blowin , not sure what you are trying to prove , that a small country could be getting it right....the source of the article is a right wing economic biased group....https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/foundation-for-economic-education/

Will be interesting to see where NSW goes now as all other States shut the borders........ol Gladys says it's a National Problem.....no it's not , it's a NSW problem and at this rate , end of August lockdowns look more and more likely.....
It's amazing the NSW is "swimming" in AZ but no-one wants it......back to the old story " man dying in the desert of thirst , man comes along to save him with a bottle of water , but , he only drinks perrier , so , he dies!"
https://www.theage.com.au/national/nsw/code-red-nsw-plunged-into-covid-n...

Brutus- More Australians have died from the vaccine than Covid this year.

So much for dying in the desert.

Because we have contained it.

Imagine if it get loose in the indigenous populations up north and west. Carnage.

"Because we have contained it.

Imagine if it get loose in the indigenous populations up north and west. Carnage."

yep, there's that...

and I think that particular situation is a credit to all australian governments. often it seems indigenous policy is tokenistic and lacking, but in this particular case many governments seem to have been very genuine and proactive

for all the contemporary talk of racism and 'white supremacy'... i find it most encouraging that most leaders acted swiftly with what seems to have been the best of intentions, and it has shown in the outcomes. I know some of the remote communities were pissed with the paternalism and I guess what is racism to a degree, but it seems to have payed of

not sure how they feel now many months on...

speakimg of pissed

geez the cities have fired up today

patience and compliance is certainly wearing thin in certain parts of the community

and looking at the photos, those people ain't all the usual nutty 'right wing' tough guy 'freedum' fighters...

And they've just increased the chances of extending it.

Blowin wrote:

Brutus- More Australians have died from the vaccine than Covid this year.

So much for dying in the desert.

Ok , what's your source , and the Stats?
,
It's pretty common knowledge now , that there is an epidemic in the USA among non vaxers , the republicans are freaking out with Mitch McConnel and Mc Carthur calling for everybody to get vaccinated......a big turn around from Ol Trumpy.......65000 plus infections a day , 4 /07 , 10000 a day....UK now up to 50000 new infections a day......

sypkan wrote:

speakimg of pissed

geez the cities have fired up today

patience and compliance is certainly wearing thin in certain parts of the community

will be interesting to see if the demonstrations become a super spreader event.....it looks like Vicco was going to reopen next Weds.....now???

and looking at the photos, those people ain't all the usual nutty 'right wing' tough guy 'freedum' fighters...

Think it’s 3 Covid deaths* in 2021- A 90 year old woman, a fella in his 70’s and the mother of those removalists. Though I kept seeing the Beyond Blue contact when they talked about her and we know what that usually means.

There’s at least 5 straight up vaccine deaths off the top of my head. Not counting the death of mother in laws brother who went from good health to dead a couple days after the vaccine.

Can’t find stats, you look them up if you don’t believe it.

*Died within 28 days of a positive test, though tests are unreliable and throw many false positives.

FK im sick of Covid.

Just the talk and press about it 24/7

Just how much of a cock is Scomo? Well, here he is blaming the victims of deaths at the hands of his shitty vaccine. Remember this when the government starts trying to coerce/ mandate the jab.

Bowin there is currently 4 deaths in NSW, and 4 people have died from Blood clots from the AZ , so out of 4m shots of AZ already been jabbed.... 1 in a million?

The only reason I ask you for your links is to see what facts you use for your opinions!

I really wonder about the anti-lockdown demonstrations happening right now.....no one wearing masks etc.....FFS why couldn't the Vicco mob wait till tuesday....FFS some people just don't get it!

Blowin , ATAGI just changed it's mind again and says that AZ is fine for everybody......how many mixed messages from Scomo/Atagi/Gadys/Dan.....we are slowly but surely disintegrating into a mess.....

NSW Drama Queen double ramps Lockdown > Record Vax > Covid Cases Skyrocket 1,000%
UK Jester opens the Flood gates, lounges lowest ever UK vax > Halves Covid cases by 50%
Ain't life a bitch & just how can this Mop Top Clown steal the show from his isolation booth.

Medicine / Science : "Vax slayed the Beast!"
UK PM : " Twas Lockdown that Killed the Beast!"
WHO Delta is 55% more transmissible than Alpha which is 50% more transmissible than 1st Strain.

UK's most pathetic Vax / Lockdown ever is making light work of Delta & laughing at the Experts...
Experts new plan : "Delta means no harm!... Do nothing, Drink beer & Play Footy & it will go away!"

Here's a small sample of what's goin' on!
14th Jan 2021 (Alpha Winter Lockdown Rollout > 0.33 daily Vax doses/1,000 > 48,502 c/day
18th July 2021 (Delta Summer Freedom Rollout > 0.34 daily Vax doses/1,000 > 47,646 c/day
Everything changes but the Rollout > Case ratio is an ever reliable ramped source of Covid
Yes... Science briefly explained it well enough, that they had to immediately hide their evil little secret.
The First & Last Chapters of The Vax Bible are censored for the very same reason as you see here!
Science back edits Archives & pre legislates to remove any Vax Ramp > Case Spike > Death effect.

You steer yer Rollout to a hot spot & Peddle yer Vax to incubate Vaxerz to spread subtle Herd Covid".
Have scientists gauged this Vax herd infection rate...Yes...+ issue a [ Warning ]

{Key} eg : This chart complies with the Pfizer Vaccine Rollout (UK / Israel)
Sciency Media Constructs : (1) There's no Covid in the Vax (2) Vax can't give you Covid > see next...
Incubating Vaxer (Any) : Defenses are down & naturally more prone to catching & spreading Covid.
Standard Vax Incubation : 2 weeks of low immune defences.( Govts > Advise 2 wk self iso' any Vaxes )
Outbreaks : ( Wk 1 > 1st Dose multiply case infections by 3x )
Variants : ( Wks 3-4 > 2nd dose multiply Variant case infections by 8x ) Depends on Variant.
Table > Guides thru weekly phase % of Vaccination incubation infectiousness > % Improved Immunity.

Pfizer increases infectiousness during incubation - Week 1 +20% > wk 2 +57% wk 3 +28% wk 4 +22%
Oz mandates this increased 1 dose Covid risk > to man our Frontline resulting in several Lockdowns.
All Govt reports Headline Vaxers as invincible super spreaders. ( Families are now being infected )
As rollout gets younger...so too do the more mobile incubators spreading more Covid cases.
Soon Teen Vax infects infant siblings & back to Gran on 100th Birthday...go round the Homes again...repeat.
Rollout plays out as a set construct regardless of what variant comes & goes as present UK.
Govt / Science exempt #1 super spreaders...therefore stand accused of coaching Herd Vax incubators!

Now to the Flip side or intended Vax aim...
Pfizer increases immunity post incubation -Week 5 +58% >wk 6 +90% > wk 7 +57% > 6mth 30% drop
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(21)00289-9/fulltext

Crew can see that in a State of Emergency (More Vax = More Fuel) Vaxerz must isolate or Cases Ramp!
TV Land fuels the Covid skyrocket....VAX VAX VAX...KABOOM!
Herd of invincible Cybermen flashing their bandaids...One Of Us!...[ Infect All Hesitants ]

NSW call a National Emergency & want All Oz Vax... whole of Oz laughs & says you already got it!
Qldurr tbb will dutifully answer the call & sacrifice his Vax to Save the Nation...God Bless NSW!

hmmm so tbb, a whole lot of vaccine to SW Sydney will = ....

indo-dreaming wrote:

FK im sick of Covid.

Just the talk and press about it 24/7

switching off for a couple of days helps Indo, it really helps.

here's a nice distraction for you

if u dont let it rip,how long do you lockdown?
yeah dont tell me,i know its"till everyone is vaccinATED.!"?well not everyone is gonna get da jab.

I am super curious to see what %of Australians will get fully vaccinated?how many jabs will it take to be vaccinated fully?

if you vaxx,back your own immune system or choose alternative drugs to combat this nasty virus it should be a choice left up to the individual.
good luck to everyone.

If you are freedom of choice then you support the lockdowns, so you know, those choosing to get the jab have an opportunity to get it

good luck troppo, it is still a personal choice thing for how you respond.

As far as lockdown, Vic big one last year was let go way too long (with benefit of hindsight) - a stage 4 lockdown and curfew had definite results within 6 weeks on case numbers, and led to total eradication of that strain.

If you lock down hard and early, you get out way earlier, as Vic proved with Delta strain in May, which was eradicated until new versions of it reseeded in last 4 weeks. SA and WA have stopped it within a couple of weeks for very low case numbers. The longer you leave it, the more cases, the more unlinked cases, the bigger a problem it is.

In happy news, we got our eldest out to WA on literally the last flight before restrictions started. He's now safe to attend Uni face to face and finish study in Immunology and Virology - perhaps to be at the forefront of fighting stuff like this in the future. I'm extra happy as WA has a track record of protecting it's people and this is good when you have something like Type 1. If TSHTF here he's safer there.

Supafreak wrote:

@blowin , sweden has a population just over 10 million and had roughly 14700 deaths related to covid. If Australia was to let it rip , would you be comfortable with a death toll which would be ????? It wouldn’t take long for our health system to be overloaded and as someone pointed out all other lifesaving medical procedures would be effected. Plus the ongoing issues people would have recovering from covid . People are suffering through lockdowns , if let it rip , do you think people would be truly better off ? I don’t like alot of decisions that have been made during this pandemic but letting it rip isn’t the answer at the moment. I haven’t heard you say let it rip but I don’t think sweden went about it the right way .

I'm wary of making too many international comparisons to very different countries on the other side of the world...but seeing as Sweden is an hr from me (and might pop over for some cheaper beer supply this week)...its not only their deaths but also that it brought a worse economic impact than neighbouring countries that did a lock down. So yeah, they didn't go about it the right way by any measure.

On the mental health angle. I'd really like to see a deep dive into the different effects relative to different types of lockdowns.
Here most people its probably had a positive effect. Made their lives more simple. Certainly has for me. Gyms have been closed but there's been no restrictions on outdoor activities so I was snowboarding and running outside all winter.
Potentially its related to the job support. Most people I know were covered by benefits if they lost work at all. My hospo friends though prob took the biggest hit so I know they were negatively affected.

The Swedish government did not just let the virus rip but took it very seriously and responded to it very carefully and firmly:

https://www.krisinformation.se/en/hazards-and-risks/disasters-and-incide...

https://www.government.se/government-policy/the-governments-work-in-resp...

https://www.folkhalsomyndigheten.se/the-public-health-agency-of-sweden/c...

brutus wrote:

Blowin , ATAGI just changed it's mind again and says that AZ is fine for everybody......how many mixed messages from Scomo/Atagi/Gadys/Dan.....we are slowly but surely disintegrating into a mess.....

ATAGI are issuing advice based on current covid outbreak information, which obviously changes from day to day, even hour to hour, and assessment of the risks to Joe Public. I would expect it to change in the current circumstances. Wouldn't you?

And ATAGI didn't say it was 'fine' to get AZ. They 'recommended' people get vaccinated. For most people its probably the best advice. For 1 in a million maybe not.

Why the histrionics Brutus?

If you listen to Alan Jones and Craig Kelly you might believe that more vaccinated people are dying from Covid19 then unvaccinated. But then again if you listen to those two idiots...

brutus wrote:

blowin , not sure what you are trying to prove , that a small country could be getting it right....the source of the article is a right wing economic biased group....https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/foundation-for-economic-education/

Will be interesting to see where NSW goes now as all other States shut the borders........ol Gladys says it's a National Problem.....no it's not , it's a NSW problem and at this rate , end of August lockdowns look more and more likely.....
It's amazing the NSW is "swimming" in AZ but no-one wants it......back to the old story " man dying in the desert of thirst , man comes along to save him with a bottle of water , but , he only drinks perrier , so , he dies!"
https://www.theage.com.au/national/nsw/code-red-nsw-plunged-into-covid-n...

Brutus, you can't just wave the magic 'Right Wing' wand to discredit FEE. (I know nothing about them, but thought I'd look) Checking your own link, it rates as 'Centre Right', whereas The Age rates to the left of 'Centre Left, i.e. more biased than FEE.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-07-25/bali-running-out-of-oxygen-indone...

Sea Dub, no histrionics , just watching the confusion here in Australia from Feds/State/Atagi....AZ has such a bad name now because of the confusion and the Media who print every rumour / report opinion , that we have a lot of AZ , but no-one wants it....now ATAGI says it's better to get something than nothing....30 m Poms got AZ.....because the reality in NSW is to get back to zero could take months...........
If you go back to what the UK originally did with their AZ , they kept it for them selves did not deliver on promises to Europe of AZ vaccinations....the EU responded in threatening to take the IP for the AZ and give it away......during this period Germany /France announced the blood clotting issue , so Europe went to Pfizer /Moderna etc.....Pfizer is in partnership with Bio a German firm.....so the politics/Pharma wars are in full swing now ......after reading reports this morning.....NSW could have 3 mths lockdown without an immediate massive vaccination schedule , plenty of AZ , not much pfizer.....so I think NSW will be a couple of mths , especially after the thousands of protesters in Sydney yesterday.....a Trumpian Rally which became known as super spreaders.....morons wanting freedom, FFS, LOL!

Island Bay , if you had of gone into the article , you would have seen also how accurate are the FEE Vs the Age....the Age rates much higher that the FEE.
Also one of the financial supporters is the Koch Brothers who finance extreme right wing ideology like QAnon!

This is pretty crazy "Sydney woman in her 30s with no pre-existing health conditions dies from COVID-19

https://www.9news.com.au/national/coronavirus-sydney-woman-in-30s-dies-f...

That reminds me of a 34-year-old Vietnamese man who died in hospital in Hanoi of Covid-19 a couple of months ago. He didn't have pre-existing health conditions but did have a brain injury and meningitis after a traffic accident that had landed him in hospital two or three weeks earlier. Got the virus in hospital, poor bugger. To my shame I thought the headline pretty funny: https://e.vnexpress.net/news/news/34-year-old-covid-patient-dies-in-hano...

Biggest killer: Malaria.
2nd biggest killer: Kidney disease.
3rd biggest killer: Cancer
4th biggest killer: Coronavirus (and it won't be here forever either)
Big fuss over nothing.

Vaccines accelerating the UK's route to herd immunity.

"Doctors and nurses were among the first to be struck down by the virus. The prime minister was incapacitated for weeks, parliament was closed, education was disrupted. In the darkest days of the crisis, Norwood Cemetery in south London held 200 funerals a day.

This was Britain during a pandemic. The year was not 2020, though, but 1890, and the disease was not Covid-19 but Russian flu. It tore around the world, killing 125,000 people in the UK and one million globally.

The similarities between that pandemic and today’s are uncanny. Symptoms reported by doctors 130 years ago included dry coughing, a sudden fever and, for many, a lost sense of smell. Some survivors were struck by a lingering depression and lack of energy that left them debilitated for months. The saving grace of the virus was that children were affected much less than adults.

Many virologists now believe that the 1890 outbreak was caused not by flu at all, but rather by a coronavirus that jumped from cows to humans, in much the same way that Sars-Cov-2 is believed to have leapt from bats to humans.

So what can we learn from that crisis? When was the so-called Russian “flu” eradicated? And above all, what does it tell us about when the current pandemic will end?

Nearly a week after the July 19 “freedom day” marked the end of the UK lockdown, the Covid crisis feels far from over. Nearly 50,000 coronavirus cases are being recorded each day and daily hospital admissions are up to 800. The threat of the NHS becoming overwhelmed and restrictions being reimposed hangs over us like a cloud. The “pingdemic” continues to wreak havoc, with many families keeping their children at home for the last week of term, afraid not of infection but of having to spend the first days of the school holidays in isolation. The UK is deep into the third wave of the crisis.

The virus that first struck Britain in 1890 also hit the country in waves. Four big surges swept across the nation until 1894, with further sporadic outbreaks until 1900, when the pandemic fizzled out.

But the virus never disappeared. In fact, there is some evidence it may still be among us, passed from person to person as a key cause of winter sniffles. A Belgian study published in 2005 suggested the Russian outbreak may have been caused by what is now known as OC43, one of four coronaviruses that between them cause 20 per cent of common colds in the UK.

Paul Hunter, professor of health protection at the University of East Anglia, believes Sars-Cov-2 will follow a similar trajectory and eventually become endemic, a seasonal virus that circulates every winter but does not cause serious problems. “The virus is here for the long term,” he said. “Our grandchildren’s grandchildren are going to get Covid. But for them it won’t be a big deal.”

The question, of course, is how long will that process take? That our distant descendants will no longer be affected by the pandemic is faintly reassuring, but how much more of this upheaval will we have to endure ourselves?

Few experts are willing to gaze into the crystal ball and give a definitive answer — Covid-19 has surprised us too many times — but Hunter believes the process is already under way, driven by the vaccines. “The symptom profile of cases is now changing, resembling less the Covid disease of last year and looking more like a common cold,” he said.

Dr Julian Tang, clinical virologist at the University of Leicester, guesses that it will take three to five years for Covid-19 to become fully endemic in the UK, but stresses we will not be truly safe for the five to ten years it takes to complete global vaccination. David Matthews, professor of virology at Bristol, is slightly more optimistic. “It will take several years to reach an endemic state, but I would say that once this wave is done, that’s probably the worst of it.”

Francois Balloux, director of the University College London Genetics Institute, has an even more hopeful outlook. “If you were extremely optimistic, and not afraid of hurting people’s feelings, you could say the pandemic is already borderline over. If we use a criteria that says if it is not causing more morbidity and mortality than any other virus in circulation, then I will be surprised if it were still the most deadly virus in circulation by next spring.”

That, as Balloux admits, is a controversial view. Many doctors have raised the alarm about the danger of Britain’s “great gamble”. But the key to virologists’ optimism is the idea of immunity. The coronavirus that sprang out of Wuhan last year was so dangerous because it was new. The human immune system had no way to fight it off.

For the majority of the British population, however, that is no longer the case. In the 1890s it took four years for enough people in the UK to become infected for immunity to reach significant levels, and then another five years of sporadic outbreaks until the virus settled into an endemic pattern. This time that process has been artificially accelerated by vaccines. About 88 per cent of adults in the UK have now received a vaccine and 69 per cent have had two doses. Add to that the many young people who have been exposed via natural infection and there is a very high level of immunity in the UK.

Nadhim Zahawi, the vaccines minister, describes this as a “wall” of protection. In reality it is more like a net. Immunity wanes and the virus mutates. The jabs are better than anyone ever dared to hope, but they do not stop all infections.

Nearly 29,000 people in England have tested positive after receiving two vaccines but the vast majority suffered only mild symptoms: just 1,656 of those who have been double-jabbed required a hospital visit, of whom only 843 required an overnight stay.

The vaccine net is doing its job — some cases are slipping through but most severe cases are prevented. The number who have died after receiving both vaccines is extremely low: 224 in England, of whom only four have been aged under 50.

So if the vaccines are working and deaths are down, is the UK approaching herd immunity? In a sense, yes. But this is not the herd immunity that became so toxic last year when the UK government considered letting the virus rip through the population, putting millions at risk of death. The herd immunity we are approaching has been achieved in a much safer way, using vaccination rather than mass exposure.

The consequence of herd immunity is also different to that envisaged last year. “It’s not a case of, ‘We reach herd immunity and the virus will just go away’,” Matthews said. “There is no avoiding this virus now.” The aim, he said, is “a kind of truce. We will all catch it, several times. But because you’ve been vaccinated or you’ve had it before, you won’t die.”

Even if that is the long-term prospect, the coming winter poses a major hurdle. A group of British virologists last week wrote to the Financial Times warning that the relaxation of lockdown measures was “potentially a recipe for disaster”, placing pressure on the NHS and providing the “ideal setting” for the evolution of new Covid variants.

Tang, who signed the letter, said two or three more months of restrictions, to keep case rates suppressed and push vaccination levels higher, would help the NHS survive the winter. As schools reopen in the autumn, cold weather sets in and people start socialising indoors without masks or restrictions, the cases that break through the vaccination net are likely to rise. “What the UK needs is an Indian summer that lasts until October,” Tang said. “That might stop everyone socialising indoors.”

Jonathan Ball, professor of molecular virology at the University of Nottingham, believes the risk is overstated. He thinks many of the hospitalisations being reported as Covid-related are incidental. Patients are brought in for other reasons but happen to have asymptomatic coronavirus. “There are two types of hospital admission,” he said. “There’s one with Covid and one because of Covid. As you see community cases rise, both types are going to inflate.”

Ball believes the UK government was right to lift restrictions. “The vaccines are doing what we asked them to do, the vulnerable have all been given two doses.” But vaccine uptake has now slowed to a trickle, with three million young adults yet to take up their offer. “There’s some messaging to be done there, but are we going to hold off while we try to persuade them?” Ball said.

In many ways, the country has reached the limits of what it can do to control the virus. Unless the government decides to inoculate under-18s — which its scientific advisers last week cautioned against — vaccination levels are very close to reaching their maximum.

Hunter also backs the lifting of restrictions and believes continuing to lock down could do more harm than good. He also believes the time has come to end the “pingdemic”, by bringing forward the date at which vaccinated Covid contacts are spared from self-isolating (currently August 16). “The requirement to quarantine after being pinged because you are a casual contact has little if any value in controlling the epidemic,” he said.

Ball puts it differently. “Perhaps August 16 is when the pandemic ends in the UK,” he said. Now vaccination has ended the risk of severe disease for most, the biggest fear for many is having to spend ten days in isolation.

Once again, the parallels with 1890 are apt. According to a 1995 history of Britain’s Russian flu outbreak, published in the Social History of Medicine journal, the crisis “touched most sufferers lightly, but it nonetheless cast thousands into an indeterminate, threatening situation”.

The Covid pandemic has undoubtedly been tragic. Yet for those who have not been struck down or bereaved, the biggest impact has been the chaos, the uncertainty, the indeterminate threat.

Perhaps August 16 will end up being true freedom day in the UK.

great news , love being proved wrong , but it looks like the UK experiment in opening the Country and getting back to living life with Covid is working....nearly half the number of infections from last week to this week....and the non-vaccinated people especially young people are really the ones who are suffering most now.....
I wonder how the anti-vaxxers would go with ...if you don't get vaccinated and take the risk of Covid , and get Covid, do you expect to use the medical system / Hospitals ?

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/25/seriously-ill-young-people...

Brutus- As someone who’s taken drugs, eaten poorly, been consumed by hate and stress, gotten fat and pre diabetic, voluntarily exposed the self to hazardous chemicals, smoked and pursued risky lifestyle choices and endeavours…..do you think you should be excluded from the medical system and hospitals due to any health issues you’ve suffered ?

brutus wrote:

great news , love being proved wrong , but it looks like the UK experiment in opening the Country and getting back to living life with Covid is working....nearly half the number of infections from last week to this week....and the non-vaccinated people especially young people are really the ones who are suffering most now.....
I wonder how the anti-vaxxers would go with ...if you don't get vaccinated and take the risk of Covid , and get Covid, do you expect to use the medical system / Hospitals ?

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/25/seriously-ill-young-people...

You have to ask the question. If lockdowns are no more and all restrictions are lifted in the UK are people who are getting sick with Covid actually going to get tested for covid? So is the supposed falling rate of covid since restrictions being lifted actually a furphy? My point is with all restrictions lifted why would you go and get tested for covid anymore? What’s the point?

Blowin wrote:

Brutus- As someone who’s taken drugs, eaten poorly, been consumed by hate and stress, gotten fat and pre diabetic, voluntarily exposed the self to hazardous chemicals, smoked and pursued risky lifestyle choices and endeavours…..do you think you should be excluded from the medical system and hospitals due to any health issues you’ve suffered ?

yeah Blowin , really sensible comment, as usual you go the messenger ...just so you know I don't have a medicare card , I pay all my Dr's/hospital Bills from my own pocket....but that's not the point....

Blowin if you refuse to be vaccinated because of your values, LOL, and then get sick from Covid , you will want to use the same system to save you , that recommends you get the vaccine so you don't get sick.........so for a jab that costs $20, you refuse on ? grounds...and then expect the medical system to pay for ( our Tax payers $'s) your hospital fees which would be in the tens of thousands of $'s...just wondering how you would stand by your morals of no vaxxing , if ya got sick?

Blowin wrote:

Brutus- As someone who’s taken drugs, eaten poorly, been consumed by hate and stress, gotten fat and pre diabetic, voluntarily exposed the self to hazardous chemicals, smoked and pursued risky lifestyle choices and endeavours…..do you think you should be excluded from the medical system and hospitals due to any health issues you’ve suffered ?

Just so you know Bowin, everything I have experienced in life is a blessing ...still here telling the ongoing story/stories , was fat with the cancer drugs , diabetes was a blessing lost 10 Kgs back to surfing weight , getting ready to leave Australia , go shaping surfing , teaching again...so I am not the man I once was , it's called evolution........

A very good unbiased article.

https://www.uab.edu/news/health/item/12143-three-things-to-know-about-th...

donweather wrote:

A very good unbiased article.

https://www.uab.edu/news/health/item/12143-three-things-to-know-about-th...

Imagine if all the anti-vaxxers actually read what we posted...there is literally no case for not getting vaccinated....and there is one easy solution for NSW/Australia to get out of our present Covid debacle..mass vaccinations!

Brutus- I wasn’t attacking you. Many, if not most people, have done the same things to themselves. Just putting a bit of perspective on your proposition to classify people’s access to medical treatment based on their life choices.

Good on you for making the conscious decision to evolve. We’ve all got to do it. Where possible it’s better to make the decision yourself than have circumstance make it for you.

Yep. I read Don’s link. Very good. My personal decision isn’t based on anything beyond my own situation. That’s my choice, for reasons that I don’t really want to go into , beyond saying that you should probably respect my decision and keep to yourself your opinions of what should and shouldn’t happen to those who don’t want the vaccine. Protect yourself, protect your loved ones and keep jogging. Late bloom authoritarianism isn’t a great look.

Oz vaxerz drool over UK rollout & Freedom Day...
UK has some of the fastest growing Hospital Rates for Covid
Vaccinated people are the fastest growing number of Hospital cases now 60% & skyrocketing
Notably! Covid infected Double Vaxers make up highest percentage of all UK Patients for all ill health.
https://www.vanguardngr.com/2021/07/60-of-people-admitted-to-uk-hospital...
Vaccinated people are the fastest growing number of UK Covid Deaths now 60-70%.

Never once read of a Hesitant asking a Vaxer to pay back GP Q&A $80 + 2x Jabs $80 for more Covid!
Nor ask to return years of Outpatient appointments robbed by Rollout during Oz Wide Hospital Crisis.
More & more Hesitants give up more beds daily for more Vaxers to fill more Hospitals...That's Life!
Hesitants don't even expect Media or Vaxerz to ever acknowledge or admit to these truths ever!
Yes! Of course we expect Media & Vaxers to hide the Truth & know full well that they will...so sue us!

Blowin wrote:

Brutus- I wasn’t attacking you. Many, if not most people, have done the same things to themselves. Just putting a bit of perspective on your proposition to classify people’s access to medical treatment based on their life choices.

Good on you for making the conscious decision to evolve. We’ve all got to do it. Where possible it’s better to make the decision yourself than have circumstance make it for you.

Blowin , you have probably worked out I am bit different to most because of the life I have led. Warts and all I own and take responsibility for all my actions.....I have done some really heavy shit in my life , that I do not want to repeat......so I am wired very different to most people , because I am so old and have experienced a lot negatives .....I really believe that adversity defines who you are.....I have had one of, if not the most Rad 6 mths of my life this year.....truth is very important to me and I spend a lot of time researching and chasing it down .....that's how you evolve, by owning ya bad shit and try not to repeat mistakes....
I have been on a bit of a bender with this vaccine stuff , as I am about to start travelling in the next couple of mths , so I look at the Global situation.....and all of a sudden this morning , Stats come out of the UK that are now best case scenario, in that their policy of mass vaccinations with AZ has worked remarkably well , with the downside being young unvaccinated people getting smashed by Covid.......
I will move on pretty soon as I now have an opinion based on facts......no need to keep debating ......my point with the medical system is simply , that the people who are now suffering and starting to clog up the health system are the young unvaccinated...it's a horror show for all the Dr's and health workers watching young healthy people die , or suffer from Covid...if you make the moral decision to not vaccinate . does that come with I will suffer the consequences if I make a bad decision or in the back of your mind you go , well if I am wrong the health system will be there for me??

truebluebasher wrote:

Oz vaxerz drool over UK rollout & Freedom Day...
UK has some of the fastest growing Hospital Rates for Covid
Vaccinated people are the fastest growing number of Hospital cases now 60% & skyrocketing
Notably! Covid infected Double Vaxers make up highest percentage of all UK Patients for all ill health.

So TBB , what do you make of this article?

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/25/seriously-ill-young-people...
https://www.vanguardngr.com/2021/07/60-of-people-admitted-to-uk-hospital...
Vaccinated people are the fastest growing number of UK Covid Deaths now 60-70%.

Never once read of a Hesitant asking a Vaxer to pay back GP Q&A $80 + 2x Jabs $80 for more Covid!
Nor ask to return years of Outpatient appointments robbed by Rollout during Oz Wide Hospital Crisis.
More & more Hesitants give up more beds daily for more Vaxers to fill more Hospitals...That's Life!
Hesitants don't even expect Media or Vaxerz to ever acknowledge or admit to these truths ever!
Yes! Of course we expect Media & Vaxers to hide the Truth & know full well that they will...so sue us!