Vaccinate or not
y.eah Udo, everybody should start working out that this D-variant is another whole new level of Covid......no-one is guaranteed total protection from Covid , but we can certainly lessen the risk ...especially now its a fact that the D-Variant affects younger people a lot more than the first Covid....watch how the Stock exchanges react , as they are the global emotion gauges on risk!
We also have the delta plus varient , wont end there either. https://www.firstcoastnews.com/article/news/health/coronavirus/delta-plu...
Yes Bonza, I think you sometimes infer that I am deliberately attempting to discredit evidence based medicine and the scientific process by posting misinformation.
Couldn’t be further from the truth and hopefully the other readers on here recognise that
Has anyone got evidence that the protocol used by the FLCCC on the patients they have successfully treated found to be fraudulent. ? With so many personal testimonies and news reports on recovered patients, some who had to get court orders to be treated with ivermectin . To me the proof in patients that are walking around again living a normal life , many who were elderly, speaks volumes. Have a closer look at what was used in the US and yes it wasn’t just ivermectin. India’s decline was due to what ?
Hey Supa. No I don't but that podcast Brutus posted explained well I thought the problems associated with observational studies.
Love it when 'pinions based on youtube vids are considered more valid than medical advice.
Stay well peeps.
For the record, from the Australian guidelines for clinical treatment of Covid 19; Australian National COVID-19 Clinical Evidence Taskforce:
https://app.magicapp.org/?#/guideline/L4Q5An/section/nygMxj
For those who cant be bothered to follow a link, the text is copied below.
6.3.3.2 Ivermectin (1):
Only in research settings
Updated evidence, no change in recommendation
Do not use ivermectin for the treatment of COVID-19 outside of randomised trials with appropriate ethical approval.
Ivermectin should still be considered for other evidence-based indications in people who have COVID-19.
Trials are needed in special populations, including children and adolescents, pregnant and breastfeeding women, older people living with frailty and those receiving palliative care. Until further evidence is available, do not use ivermectin to treat COVID-19 in these populations unless they are eligible to be enrolled in trials. Research evidence (1) Evidence to decision Rationale Decision Aids References Feedback6
Benefits and harms: Small net benefit, or little difference between alternatives
General adult population
In addition to uncertainty around benefits for patients with COVID-19, there are common side effects and harms associated with ivermectin, including diarrhoea, nausea and dizziness [270].
Children and adolescents
Ivermectin should not be used in children under five years of age as safety in this age group has not been established. The safety profile of ivermectin in children 5–12 years of age is similar to that observed in adults [270].
Pregnant and breastfeeding women
Limited information suggests that ivermectin is not associated with an increased risk of congenital abnormalities. Ivermectin may be used in women who are breastfeeding [271].
Certainty of the Evidence: Very low
General adult population
Certainty of the evidence is low for mortality, invasive mechanical ventilation, adverse or serious events, discharge from hospital, admission to ICU and clinical improvement all due to very serious imprecision (reliance on a single study, limited number of patients, and/or wide confidence intervals). Certainty is very low for viral clearance, time to clinical recovery and duration of hospital stay due to very seriuos imprecision (reliance on a single study, limited number of patients, and/or wide confidence intervals) and serious risk of bias (inadequate randomisation).
Children and adolescents, pregnant and breastfeeding women, people requiring palliative care and older people living with frailty or cognitive impairment
In addition to the concerns in the general adult population, certainty of the evidence is further considered very low because of indirectness due to limited inclusion (or absence) of these populations in the trials.Preference and valuesSubstantial variability is expected or uncertain
General adult population
We have no systematically collected information regarding patients’ preferences and values. The Consumer Panel believes that as there is uncertainty regarding the benefits of this treatment, most informed patients would prefer to wait until the available evidence is clearer, while other informed patients may choose to participate in clinical trials of this treatment.
Children and adolescents, pregnant and breastfeeding women, people requiring palliative care and older people living with frailty or cognitive impairment
In addition to the concerns in the general adult population, variability may be expected in preferences and values for these populations given the potentially different goals of care. Further, for pregnant and breastfeeding women, the effects of ivermectin during pregnancy and breastfeeding are unknown in the context of COVID-19.ResourcesImportant issues, or potential issues not investigated
We have no systematically collected evidence regarding cost-benefit. Depending on the treatment, not only should the cost and resource implications be considered but also the impact on potentially reducing access to these treatments by patients currently using them for other indications.EquityImportant issues, or potential issues not investigated
General adult population
There is a risk of creating inequity as some populations are currently not eligible to be enrolled in trials and some will live in geographic areas where opportunities for enrolment are limited or non-existent.
Children and adolescents, pregnant and breastfeeding women
Because the benefit to harm ratio is uncertain, this recommendation protects these more vulnerable populations.
People requiring palliative care and older people living with frailty or cognitive impairment
As older people living with frailty or cognitive impairment are particularly at risk from COVID-19, we encourage trials that include this population (with appropriate baseline measurement of frailty and cognitive impairment). In people requiring palliative care, trials should consider symptom management and quality of life outcomes. Given the absence of trials and uncertain benefit to harm ratio, this recommendation protects these more vulnerable populations.AcceptabilityImportant issues, or potential issues not investigated
General adult population, children and adolescents, pregnant and breastfeeding women
We have no systematically collected evidence regarding acceptability. Substantial variability is expected as some patients would accept the treatment and others not.
People requiring palliative care and older people living with frailty or cognitive impairment
Because the benefit to harm ratio is uncertain, acceptability may vary due to individual decision-making around goals of care.FeasibilityImportant issues, or potential issues not investigated
Implementability is limited by the fact that not all populations are eligible to be enrolled in trials and some will live in geographic areas where opportunities for enrolment are limited or non-existent.
Here is the website for the FLCCC, there is alot of information on here and various videos. If you scroll towards bottom of the page you will come to ……In the media ….. there is a video from July 1st titled “ reporter reveals how she was forced to censor Dr Joseph Varon . A doctor that has worked over 400 days straight treating covid patients . He explains what he was using early in the pandemic and currently.There is testimony from patients and it also goes into what and where information he has shared around the world as well as comments from a Dr from WHO . Video is about 16 minutes. https://covid19criticalcare.com/
At blackers , there are many government videos on YouTube are they valid in your opinion ?
Boris Johnson inadvertently explaining why the world needs to move past the fear mongering and authoritarianism emboldened by a virus which over 99 percent of people survive.
“Even if they have been vaccinated there is a significant risk they can still pass the disease on”
https://www.smh.com.au/world/europe/in-england-first-came-the-pandemic-t...
Superfreak, there are many valid things on the internet, including some great vids on youtube. However, just because someone says something in a vid doesn't make it true, opinions are just that. When it comes to medical proof, the established convention is to get published in a peer-reviewed journal if you want to be believed by the wider medical community/decision-making authorities. Get pulled or fail to get published (not just pre-released), means there are issues with your work. Authors of work that has been peer-reviewed published have jumped through the appropriate hoops. As more evidence comes to light, things can change, as they should. That's how the system works. It may not be perfect but I personally prefer it to the alternative free for all.
The current advice based on published studies, as quoted above, is there is not sufficient evidence for Ivermectin. If it is what you believe, the evidence will come to light.
Stay safe and get tubed.
@ Boris-
So the strong and lucky survive; while the weak or compromised or unfortunate or unlucky die or suffer.
Just as nature has always intended.
C'est la vie!
@blackers , thanks for feedback and appreciate your thoughts , have you viewed the peer reviewed paper from the FLCCC ? It was reviewed by 2 FDA scientists and another from the US military .
Just went to the supermarket to get a couple half price ducks to bbq for the S.A. lockdown.
Heaps of crew out front of the shopping centre sucking down ciggies and not even using a face mask!.
I was a bit confused when the media told me we're going into lockdown to prevent people from overloading the hospitals but dont worry the bottle 'o' is an essential service and will remain open?dont panic.
Lets all focus on the real issue here.
Should GOF labs be legal?
Are the new rMNA vaccines fit for human consumption?not the same as traditional vaccines.research and follow the science.
The jury is still deliberating?
Do not tell me to inject something that is unproven whilst you scoff at Nobel peace prize winning doctors n drugs.
ps my kids,wife n myself have been fully vaccinated except for covid and annual flu shots{if you cant fight the flu on your own its time to go}.
i am not an anti anything except for death from a nasty virus that was made in a lab and injecting unproven drugs.
I ran into a co-worker in the parking lot tonite on my way in. Used to work nocs with him, now he moved to pms. Anyways, he sees me in the dark and walks up and asks, without preamble, if i had gotten the jab. I say yes and he is disappointed, says he thought for sure i would not be one of the ones who get it. Said, with eyes wide, that 9,000 people have died from adverse reaction to the vaccine. I just smiled and said 'well, i wasn't one of em,' and kept moving. Two things here. One, i have been approached like this from anti-vaxxers that i know a few times. Never once by the other camp. (Why?) Two, i won't bother to verify the claim of 9,000 deaths due to vaccine, and just accept it as truth, for the purpose of this post. So, aboard his logic train, don't get the thing that has killed 9,000 cuz it is better to risk the thing that has killed 4 million. Cuz they fudge those numbers and it isn't really 4 million who have died. Cuz the gov't is just trying to control us. Those are seriously his narratives. College educated professional. I honestly don't try that much anymore. We will not be leaving this pandemic in the rearview anytime soon. Alot of us will die. (That is a comment geared to my country, the US.) Mostly the unvaccinated, and, in that, there is a sense of macabre justice that i do NOT want visited. I also do not want to have to try to treat patients who are very sick, a great risk of exposure to me, potentially, and whom are remorseful for their previous anti-vax stance. (I hear that everyday. Every. Single. Day.) But, i give up, officially. You cannot argue with these people. I will just continue to do the best job i can, and surf, hike, swim, play as much as i can till the Reaper comes for me.
The more you investigate evidence based medicine and how it translates to public policy the more complex it becomes (cue response from Bonza here). What do you do as an administrator with Ivermectin? Take a punt like Indonesia and the doctors of many other countries ? Or refuse to endorse it because it is “unproven”, depending of course what your definition of proof is?
I am yet to see a study of any form whereby the control (non-ivermectin group) has a worse outcome yet there are plenty of so-called flawed studies where it is beneficial.
A question to everyone on here: what if Covid were rampant and a vaccine not available for at least 6 months and we had the current evidence on Ivermectin? Would you be prepared to take it given it’s extraordinary low side effect rate?
How is that different to our current situation when herd immunity is at least 6 months away and the (nearly) national lockdown is devastating various people’s lives?
To take a definitive stance one way or another is closed minded. If we were desperate in this country there is every chance just like Indonesia it would be approved for use
@tylerdurden , here’s a letter from the FLCCC about the upcoming Oxford trials. FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
July 1, 2021
CONTACT:
[email protected]
Joint Statement of the Front Line COVID-19 Critical Care Alliance and British Ivermectin Recommendation Development Group on the Unethical and Questionable Methods of the Upcoming PRINCIPLE Trial by Oxford University
The latest trial to test the efficacy of ivermectin as a treatment for COVID-19 is poorly designed and will deprive some ill patients of any medicine.
WASHINGTON, D.C. – The Front Line COVID-19 Critical Care Alliance (FLCCC), a group of highly published, world-renowned critical care physicians and scholars, and the British Ivermectin Recommendation Development Group (BIRD), a U.K. based group of medical and scientific experts from over 16 countries, issued a joint letter today to the investigator of the PRINCIPLE trial at Oxford University explaining a list of concerns over the trial’s design and raising questions about the ethics of conducting such a trial.
In the letter, FLCCC and BIRD voice their deep concern for the health of participants in the trial. The design of the trial will require several participants who are suffering from COVID-19 symptoms to not receive any treatment for the illness. The consequences of such a design could be catastrophic. Depriving patients of any treatment will likely cause more suffering and in some cases, even death. The groups question the need for such a design when the latest research shows beyond a doubt that ivermectin is an effective treatment for COVID-19 at any state of the disease.
“The design of the study is highly unethical. There is absolutely no need to keep a lifesaving treatment from a group of patients to find out if it works,” said Dr. Pierre Kory, president and chief medical officer of the FLCCC. “This goes against everything we swore an oath to as doctors. The investigators need to redesign this dangerous study immediately.”
In the letter the two groups detail their additional concerns of the quality of the data the trial will produce. The trial intends to observe the antiviral properties of ivermectin in patients that have been showing COVID-19 symptoms for up to 15 days. It is well known that the virus naturally clears the body in 5 to 7 days. Measuring antiviral properties of a treatment when the virus may have cleared the body naturally is unlikely to be useful for providing reliable evidence or clinical guidance.
“A trial like this is not necessary when there is a preponderance of the evidence that currently exists in several peer-reviewed meta-analysis that show that ivermectin is effective at preventing and treating COVID-19,” said Dr. Tess Lawrie, director of the Evidence-Based Medicine Consultancy and organizer of the BIRD group. “The way the trial is designed, it is unlikely to produce any meaningful results. This can also be misleading to the public and medical professionals as it could send an incorrect message about ivermectin based on very poor data.” I thought the placebo group were getting standard of care which in the UK I’m not sure what that is .
Hey Tyler
Ive said from the outset. Let this thing rip.
Don't get much support though...
Sorry can’t edit, should read “whereby the ivermectin group has a worse outcome than the control (non-ivermectin) group”
Hopefully you get my gist
Hey views, that’s another entirely different debate. What would have happened if we let it go uncheckec from February last year?
Probably a whole of deaths and herd immunity by now? Which option would have resulted in the overall best outcome including economic benefits and mental health etc
Plenty of health care decision trade off public benefit vs cost
WHO rewrites science by changing definition of herd immunity
The WHO has also radically altered the definition of “herd immunity.” Herd immunity occurs when enough people acquire immunity to an infectious disease such that it can no longer spread widely in the community. When the number susceptible is low enough to prevent epidemic growth, herd immunity is said to have been reached.
Prior to the introduction of vaccines, all herd immunity was achieved via exposure to and recovery from an infectious disease. Eventually, as vaccination became widespread, the concept of herd immunity evolved to include not only the naturally acquired immunity that comes from prior illness, but also the temporary vaccine-acquired immunity that can occur after vaccination
However, in October 2020, the WHO upended science as we know it, revising this well-established concept in an Orwellian move that totally removes natural infection from the equation.
Vaccines train our immune systems to create proteins that fight disease, known as ‘antibodies’, just as would happen when we are exposed to a disease but — crucially — vaccines work without making us sick.
Vaccinated people are protected from getting the disease in question and passing it on, breaking any chains of transmission. With herd immunity, the vast majority of a population are vaccinated, lowering the overall amount of virus able to spread in the whole population.
As late as June 2020, the WHO’s definition of herd immunity, posted on one of their COVID-19 Q&A pages, was in line with the widely-accepted concept that has been the standard for infectious diseases for decades. Here’s what it originally said:18
Herd immunity is the indirect protection from an infectious disease that happens when a population is immune either through vaccination or immunity developed through previous infection.
The updated definition of herd immunity, which appeared in October 2020, read as follows:19
‘Herd immunity’, also known as ‘population immunity’, is a concept used for vaccination, in which a population can be protected from a certain virus if a threshold of vaccination is reached. Herd immunity is achieved by protecting people from a virus, not by exposing them to it.
Vaccines train our immune systems to create proteins that fight disease, known as ‘antibodies’, just as would happen when we are exposed to a disease but — crucially — vaccines work without making us sick.
The bastards are lying to us.......
Yes Supafreak, those concerns of the FLCCC and BIRD are valid, I’ve pondered them myself recently.
The Oxford trial is perhaps not studying Ivermectin in the way it needs to be studied.
However, evidence of prophylactic treatment is notoriously hard to generate. You are treating people who have not had the disease and then trying to quantify the disease reduction vs those who are exposed to the illness yet receiving no prophylaxis.
And yet this is exactly the rationale for vaccines. I’m fully immunised and have had the Covid vaccine, I’m not anti-vax.
It’s such a complicated debate, I don’t know the answer.
The unknown is the dose for Ivermectin as prophylaxis and the side effect rate at this dose. It would appear to be extraordinary low but has not been definitively established nor the prophylactic dose agreed upon.
Personally, I think it is worth implementing.
I personally think if we gave it to every positive Covid case in this country and offered it to the close contacts then there would be an overall net benefit.
But I’m not carrying the can in terms of public liability.
To dismiss the evidence is closed mined but generating a public policy is also very difficult.
It appears however to offer some benefit and many poorly resourced countries have adopted it.
Perhaps if we are still in lockdown in 3 months time with daily figures that refuse to budge then public sentiment and health policy will change
The alternative Oz Vax Rollout...
Costello's Govt Future Fund ( Pfizer > Pre Pandemic $264m > Current $530m) + 270m Covid Pharma
Costello's Govt Future Fund [facebook] $309m > Crushed any Political voice for ( Ivermectin ).
Costello's Pro Pfizer Media >( Channel 9 ) + SMH / Sun Herald / Brisbane Times.(Hunt down Anti vaxerz)
Costello's Qld 9 / Bne Mail fuels Anti ALP Hospital Frontline ( Daily Ambo Ramps > Hearts'n'Flowers )
Pfizer IFPMA International Federation of Pharma Manufactures & Associations
Pfizer ATAGI ( Holds 3/5 Votes)
Pfizer Oz Vaccine Trials Group
Pfizer Oz ISA Influenza Specialist Group ( Seasonal Quad Combo )
Pfizer Oz ACV Immunization Council (TGA Rubber Stamperz)
Oz...The World's most Notorious badass Vaxerz
Pfizer Oz Telethon No Jab-No Play-No Pay...
World, Pollies & Media pre Label { Oz #1 Tough Vaxers...Bring it on! }
Media locked in Encyclopedia Sets of Fake 70% by default ...Righto Mate a Piece of Piss says the PM.
But just wait up! Experts think Oz is #1 so why is Oz already running out the door ...
Oz Experts are so pissed off that they can't work this out...so get really really cranky at Hesitants
Let's examine what tbb is referring to & maybe Oz can take the back seat & learn something.
Pre Covid Global Vax Poll- Nov 2015- Nov 2018
Australia > Vax is Effective ( % up & Tick) + Vax is Important ( % up & Tick) Lock it in...Sorted! Lets Vax!
Wait Up! Australians rate their Vax Safety downwards (69% > 50%) = (Covid Vax Safety is #1 Concern)
https://els-jbs-prod-cdn.jbs.elsevierhealth.com/cms/attachment/3ca219ef-...
These countries share Oz > Pre Covid drop in Vax safety (Running away before any Covid Vax Rollout)
Rollout Start > Order by Rollout Speed % > Significant speed * Low Covid ** High Covid
(Libya) > Burkina Faso > PNG > Chad > Mali > Cameroon > Paraguay > Bosnia 5% > 29th Jan-Sri Lanka 8% > 22nd Feb-*Australia 10% > 28th March-*Albania 15% > 17th Feb-**Columbia 20% > 27th Dec-Finland 30% > 28th Dec- Poland 40% > 26th Dec-*Hungary 50% > 1st March-*Uruguay 60% (Fastest)
Firstly! Note how Oz is good at hiding amongst Worlds most fearful fellow vaxerz.
This is a good gauge that Oz fear might be increasing more so since 2018 Study...
Nowhere has tbb read of such obvious measurable Oz retreat...experts know everything but this truth!
*Oz can learn from fellow Scardey Cats > *Albania > **Columbia > *Hungary > *Uruguay
* Albania / *Uruguay / *Hungary have moderate/large waves but now share low covid & solid Rollouts.
*Uruguay seems to flip a downside with poor Vax...there is a supporting article of concern.
https://borgenproject.org/covid-19-vaccination-in-uruguay/
Crew can see ** Columbia has extra incentive...not something Oz would follow, but can note speed.
Note fearful vaxerz soon get over their fears if they fear something more scary.
Oz Rollout - Turn Away when you see the Fear Flasher ~ Close your Eyes when you hear the Horror Horn...
Lounge Vaxerz...are similar to Oz.
Poland's Vax & cases have plummeted so they're buying some rare time...no hurry to vax.
Finland ramped the Vax to new highs & ramped Covid so now slowly back off the Vax pedal. (Common!)
Last two are Baltic sea bound Large Countries & are quick to back off the pedal if Vax starts to hurt.
Ocean bound Oz may likewise be tempted to surf the waves as cases rise & fall.
Gates (Via) CEPI Jane Halton (Oz No Vax-No Pay Heroes)
Jane (IHME) Husband sells ABS > Accenture ID 2020 Foreign Aid [No Vax No Pay] Gates Welfare Card
Jane -Nat Covid Co-ord > runs Hot Hotels + Gets paid to head an Inquiry into Her own Hot Hotel scam.
Jane signs Gates CEPI-Qld Uni / AZ if Gates CEPI = fund 50% Oz new Melbourne Airport Vax Plant
That's how Oz got stuck with the dud Gates CEPI AZ / Qld Uni Vax deals!
Crew back Ivermectin & in Australia...here's how you'd go about pushin' that thru...
Ivermectin must be packaged by Gates stamped by Jane, bulk billed by Costello & imported thru Pfizer.
Yer looking at 1,000% mark up for around $100 [L] Ivermectin Pack...+ can throw in a [L] TV 9 Jingle.
Chem' Warehouse - Health Minster's Demo > Slots Ivermectin tabs up each nostril. [L]Pollskyrockets!
15th April 2021 Vax or Not for more on Oz Gates > Jane Timeline
https://www.swellnet.com/comment/727255
@blackers , does this peer review paper pass the test ? given it rigorously reviewed by many including 2 FDA senior scientists and 1 from the defence threat reduction agency. https://eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2021-05/fccc-lpr050621.php https://journals.lww.com/americantherapeutics/pages/results.aspx?txtKeyw...
this explains why there are people who subscribe to conspiracy theories , seem confused , and struggle with reality....great read , not criticism , but the physiological part of our brains is really responsible , on what you feed it!
https://www.theage.com.au/national/worried-about-astrazeneca-me-too-the-...
Brutus- Substitute Covid every time that article says AstraZeneca and you’ll get the exact same result.
Over 99 percent of people survive Covid. Chances of someone below 60 dying from Covid are ridiculously slim. But…..PANIC!!!!!!!
My mother in law now has cellulitis after the AstraZeneca vaccine. Just like our Federal Health Minister.
friend of a friend died in jakarta yesterday from covid, mid 30's, not long ago had a baby
situation over there is pretty grim, our friend is pretty much terrified because so many people are dropping off the perch over there :(
@blowin , survival is one thing long covid and on going issues is another. There is plenty of young healthy people around the world who are now suffering with long covid and struggle to get their fitness and life style to the levels they had previously . This is a issue which has plenty of data and testimonies and needs to be taken seriously. Early in the pandemic nobody was paying much attention to long covid but now they have many studies . I believe there’s even a Facebook group for long haul sufferers as at first it wasn’t taken seriously .
Yep. Viruses can have long term effects. Not sure why the long term effects of Covid are treated like the holy grail though. Plenty of dengue in Bali but crew still sit shirtless at night skolling Bintangs before riding their motorbikes home without a care.
But Covid…….PANIC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Lock. Us. Down!
synchrodogcal wrote:friend of a friend died in jakarta yesterday from covid, mid 30's, not long ago had a baby
situation over there is pretty grim, our friend is pretty much terrified because so many people are dropping off the perch over there :(
Sorry to hear, especially so young.
I was talking to the wife this morning about this, another two people died from Covid in the last week that her family knew in some way.
One of her uncle's she has nothing to do with(she has a big family) and another old man in her families neighbourhood.(old and heavy smoker)
I think that's 5 people now her family knows in Java that have died from Covid plus an Indo friend here in OZ brother in 40s died last July from Covid in Java.
She was telling me those in her families neighbourhood that have died, have all died at home, as apparently there is a shame among many to even admit they have Covid so basically stay at home and die gasping for breath in bed.
Maybe it's also down to not having the $$$ to pay for a hospital bed. (or maybe even a fear of having to pay big $$$ and getting in debt)
not to mention hospitals at capacity
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/7/20/it-cannot-be-contained-indonesi...
Blowin wrote:Brutus- Substitute Covid every time that article says AstraZeneca and you’ll get the exact same result.
Over 99 percent of people survive Covid. Chances of someone below 60 dying from Covid are ridiculously slim. But…..PANIC!!!!!!!
No Panic here , just reality from watching the Global reaction to Covid......you say 99 people out of a hundred survive , what about the other person and the amount of people who are suffering post covid effects?
So if the UK is having 50,000 new infections a day , what percentage are getting sick and dying compared to 6 mths ago?
there are 30 m pommies who have now had the AZ vaccine .....and ?My mother in law now has cellulitis after the AstraZeneca vaccine. Just like our Federal Health Minister.
Blowin wrote:Yep. Viruses can have long term effects. Not sure why the long term effects of Covid are treated like the holy grail though. Plenty of dengue in Bali but crew still sit shirtless at night skolling Bintangs before riding their motorbikes home without a care.
But Covid…….PANIC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
once again No Panic just reality ...it's jut silly to compare dengue fever to Covid....do you know which one is more contagious ?
As you can see here there are people who have had direct family deaths and friends , as have I , and we are now seeing the difference in the Delta variant , which is hitting younger people more and the post Covid affects are huge!
I think you confuse panic with being concerned about a virus that is continuing to mutate and has changed our lives for ever!.
Living in your world , which seems very strayan based .....because we have had lockdowns/masks/social distancing Australia has had minimal Covid , and that's a fact....Lock. Us. Down!
Brutus- The only thing which has changed our lives is the global fear mongering and authoritarian opportunism undertaken under the guise of a virus.
You know what the long term effects of heart disease are? I can personally name at least a dozen people I know who’ve died before 50 from heart disease. Does anyone give a fuck…..no. Because heart disease, which kills roughly 450 percent more people EVERY YEAR than 18 months of Covid, isn’t promoted by a global fear campaign. But cause someone can describe an “ old guy who smoked heavily” that lived near someone’s wife’s mate’s uncle’s sister in Java then you think your fear mongering is justified.
Repeat after me, Brutus:
“The fact is that over 99 percent of people survive Covid. The chances of anyone under 60 dying from Covid, even the Delta strain, are ridiculously small. Just because I know someone, who knows someone, who’s heard of a young person dying somewhere , it does not alter these facts.”
Go get the vaccine if you’re scared. Lock yourself at home. Wear fifteen masks. Just shut the fuck up about anyone else having to do the same.
@blowin , if people don’t want to get vaccinated that’s their business in my opinion. main reason I got it was so I can travel eventually. My second shot of AZ is due in August and If I were to still get covid I wouldn’t hesitate in using the FLCCC protocol. Greg Hunt wrote to one of the doctors in Australia who prescribes ivermectin confirming that he was aware that some physicians are prescribing ivermectin off-label for Covid and that they were quite within their rights as the practice of prescribing registered medicines outside of their approved indications is not regulated or controlled by the Therapeutic Goods Administration (TGA), it is at the discretion of the prescribing physician. Yet the silence persists. Ivermectin is the drug that dare not speak its name.
Blowin, I'll do the maths for you......on your claim that 99% of people don't die....so a 100 die for every 10,0000 , and a large percentage still suffer with post covid symptoms.....so now the UK has 50,000 new infections per day, 500 deaths a day + a lot of people in Hospital etc.......the good news is with the vaccine , even if you have a double jab , you can still catch covid , but, your risk of getting really sick or dying is greatly diminished.....as the facts from the UK and Israel show.
WTF has heart disease got to do with a contagious virus?
Sounds like you are scared of getting the vaccine ?
it's pretty simple for me , I am being responsible to my family and friends and am also leaving O/S in a couple of mths.... can't enter France without being vaccinated , which will become the norm......as you know I travel a lot.....so being vaccinated is part of the big game , called Global living!
I choose to be vaccinated based on science , you choose not to vaccinate or recognize Covid based on your own expert opinion of the Global pandemic.......I can see it hurts you to see a reality based on facts , and not rumour, innuendo and bullshit conspiracy theories....
I just presented the facts. I’m not afraid of facts which is why I’m not particularly afraid of Covid. I’d like to travel without being forced to have a vaccine by scared people like yourself.
I mention heart disease because it’s an interesting parallel. Many many more people die of heart disease than Covid but you aren’t there “protecting” your friends and nagging them about their drug use leading to increased rates of heart disease and premature death. But you want me locked up if I don’t take a vaccine….
blowin that's a pretty reckless attitude. how do you justify that reasoning when letting Covid rip will overwhelm Australia's ICU capacity not just beds but the medical skill and staff to manage them?
what about the essential or planned surgeries for heart disease. or worse treatments or urgent surgeries for kids or those with cancer or both patients or both.
The ethical decisions in any given hospital to be made on the fly would be monumental. and devastating.
“Flatten the curve” was a year and a half ago. 15 million Australians are currently under house arrest. Vaccines do not prevent the transmission of the virus.
Let her rip. If you are scared or vulnerable then stay at home, wear ten masks and get vaccinated. Don’t order me to when I don’t give a fck about your virus. If I get it , I get it. If I die, I die. I’m petrified of getting eaten by a shark but I don’t demand that sharks are killed and I don’t demand that other people stay out the water. My life shouldn’t come at the expense of the lives of sharks . So it is with Covid , which is just another way to die. It’s not even the most likely way to die.
In the UK there is Covid panic still despite it ranking 28th on ways you are most likely to die and despite the average age of death being above the average life expectancy.
Fear mongering. Fear mongering. Fear mongering.
In UK you are more likely to die on the road than from Covid. Will the authorities now demand that all road use ceases and people stay home in order to save lives…..of course not.
The virus is real. The reaction is a disproportionate hoax.
Hey Brutus you better just check which vaccines are accepted in some countries in Europe. I have heard that the AZ vaccine is not accepted as "fully vaccinated" at some borders and hence no entry. Just another spanner in this shit show!
@brainiac , what really sucks is there is zero recognition with covid recovered who have the best immunity of all . https://www.medpagetoday.com/infectiousdisease/covid19/92836
@ blowout, so basically what you are saying is you are right and the rest of the world is wrong.
I have always had a lot of respect for your opinions and looked up to you as one of the big dogs on this forum but on this issue I am starting wonder if you ride a log. I'm not panicking or scared but this pandemic is the most catastrophic event in any of our lifetimes and no one knows what it could mutate into in future. Wait until 80% + are vaccinated then let it rip and then the unvaccinated can take their chances.
I'm sure if 1,000 people a day died on the roads in the UK the government would make everyone catch the bus for a while until they worked out what the fuck was going on!!! Or at a minimum try and reduce that toll via certain containment measures.
What I’m saying is that if you feel vulnerable or scared then you should isolate yourself as much as possible, use masks and social distancing and get vaccinated ASAP. Whilst the rest of us go about our business.
That’s not heartless, impractical or discriminatory.
I want to lead my life and I’m not worried about the virus.
Not saying anymore or any less than specifically those things.
If the vaccine is taking too long to be distributed ( political failure) then either develop fool proof quarantine ( another political failure) or just shut the border completely until vulnerable people are able to get vaccinated. It’s not much different from what we are doing except for an incompetent and corrupt political class.
I’ve come to terms with not travelling internationally so that Australians have a chance to avoid Covid until they get vaccinated. I hardly even travel regionally these days . But fcked if I’m going to be discriminated against within Australia and forced to live in a segregated society Because I don’t want the vaccine myself.
My parents got their first shot today. I would never presume to try and tell them to get it or don’t get it. Why should I be punished by society because I’d rather get natural immunity through catching the virus than be forced to take the vaccine?
Why should I be discriminated against due to this fact?
Another hypothetical statistical comparison for you Blowin.
Every morning infect yourself with a bit of Corona virus then climb in your car and drive to work.
Which would the greater population who drive to work die from. The car crash or lying horizontally next to the crash cart.
blowin - can you not see the connection between sudden, exponential strain of covid infected people requiring ICU on a health system that has only ~2200 ICU beds ( and the medical staff to manage them) and how this pressure will impact on non-covid patients requiring urgent surgery or medical attention?
I was a little shocked at Alan Joyce (CEO Qantas) announcement that international travelers will be required to have a covid 19 vaccination in order to travel on Qantas flights . The government wanted to have mandatory vaccination but after the bumbling of its release ( it was painful to watch the delivery of that announcement ) they withdrew the mandatory part but it seems Qantas and other business may demand a vaccination in order to use their services. I’m not anti vaccine by any means I just don’t trust this government or a vaccine that has been rushed through. A jab followed by another jab followed by yearly jabs doesn’t sit well with me as I have never had a flu shot or the flu for more than 20 years. Plus I don’t want to give this shot to my healthy 4 year old daughter. She is up to date with all her vaccinations but this covid vaccine is new and not being around for decades like the others. Tuberculosis remains the number one as far diseases go and you don’t need proof of vaccination to travel so what is going on ?