Trump

Yawn

Sleep

Sorry, I respectfully call bullshit right there. And yes, I've got skin in the game. All sorts. From all sorts of sources.

And as for your 'concept' of you as a representative One Nation voter. Which delusional bit you mean? The 'bio' bit? Who are you? Who, who, who, who? And no, please don't write another post like THAT infamous one (you 'high IQ', 'child star', pot grooming, braille-reading wastrel, you...what was bullshit again?). Or start, God forbid, to attach certificates and the like (didn't someone else go down that path on here before?) Why would you even mention these things? What happened?

Or is there a vanguard of free-thinking, high IQ, but humble with it, voters and supporters of One Nation? The 'silent minority' within the 'silent majority'??

Maybe you should join One Nation? Exponentialise their collective IQ straight off the bat. Or start your own thing. You knocked up/found a manifesto in 5 minutes, remember? Lotta time on your hands. No mortgage. I think I mentioned the Posse Comitatus to you before. Australia's ripe.

Just come clean on the racism-sy stuff, maaaate. Trump exploited it. The base fear. As does Hanson. Though she's more of a 'true believer' than that old con-man. Maybe she isn't. Hardened and cynical now. Jail-time will do that to ya. Now where's me scapegoats?

Oh, and let's not forget she's got Malcolm Roberts with his ex-coal miner/executive head full of US tea-party shite.

Blowie, you know there's more to 'globalisation' than immigration. And I do mean YOU know. I assume you do. Some of us have been fighting the good fight on this and neo-liberal economics and politics for 20 + years in various ways. 'Multiculturalism' and 'national identity'(whatever that is ...as defined by who?) in the same sentence, let alone railing about 'Chinese' and 'muslims' (pin down those two multifarious types if you will!), is all a bit whiffy. Especially when Pauline's just glommed on to it this time round. Remember when it was 'Asians' (now there's a wide remit) and 'abos' her first time round. Japanese buying the Goldie? South-East Asians (much more narrow there...not!) heroinising the Western suburbs?

Sheesh. The 'mass immigration debate' glory daze.

Was this all part of Howard's plan to weaken labour and Labor back from 96 onwards? Jangle the shiny keys (with the dog-whistle key-ring) of 'illegal boat-people' making everyone look that-a-way, whilst turning a blind eye on the various visa rorts? Nothin' to see here? Yes! As surely as work-choices and his failed sub-Thatcher MUA destruction. Have labour and Labor been fighting a rear-guard battle against all this ever since? Yes! And is Hanson NOW the answer to our neo-liberal 'globalisation' woes? NO!

The difference between us and the UK, especially in the same period as Howard's reign, even though it was a Labour government in name, was that there was no strong union movement left after the Thatcher decade to command or combat this 'third way' bollocks (you may have to google 'third way'...how neo-liberalism post-Thatcher and Reagan fucked up Labour in the UK and the Democrats in the US till now!)

Unions - organised labour - have kept those excesses from being replicated here. It might seem counter-intuitive but Hanson supporting the ABCC (which is nothing but a crude ideological 'blunt instrument', as crude and blunt as the TURC) helps the neo-liberal 'globalisation' project as surely as trickle-down corporate tax cuts do. As does her new climate-change denial nonsense. Coal is good. Adani and billions propping it up are good? For 1500 new jobs?? For who???

Labor here can learn from Sanders and Corbyn...or perish. I think they are learning. Hanson's is a road to nowhere.

I'm defo not 20 or 30 anymore. Realpolitik is the name of the organised, institutional political game. My own ideological battles are now real and happening and outside organised party politics. No details but they will have very real consequences for my particular sphere of work and thus Australia as a whole either way things turn out.

No names, no pack-drill.

And da fun don't done...

Well, Blowin... It's good that you are actually voicing your opinion, which is a big change from your pathetic hypothetical scenario questions that you are known for.... Ridiculous questions like these blowin classics;

"Would you consider it an acceptable thread of free speech if I was to stand on your lawn and yell at passers by that we should storm your house and murder every one inside ?"

"Why no analogies ? Pretty apt don't you think ?"

"You ever been overseas Sheepy ?"

"Craig - I must have missed something.....
How do you know they're referring to sinking pacific islands and not the casual island life up North that I thought they were talking about ?"

"The whole Man up....No Balls ...what's that about ?"

False naivety....... I'm glad you left it all behind...... There's thousands more, but I really couldn't be bothered cutting and pasting anymore..... Reading that much of blowins fake questions has left me slightly ill.... I find the new up front stuff far more refreshing.

Now, in regards to pointing the finger at Turk or me or anyone about riddles and cryptic meanings, give it a rest..... Here's one of your many classics;
"Then you get the muppets swallowing the whole "Racism is the new paedophilia " social engineeringx propoganda handed down by the same overlords that they purport to despise."

Ffs..........

yawn

zzzzzzz

Blowin... More of your posts...;

.

.

.

.

They were amassssiiiing......

Dude, don't blame the substances..... What a pissant excuse...
Btw, I didn't have to troll far..... Every fuckn thread is littered with your classics... But you know, if you want to go all "victim" or passive aggressive, knock yourself out... Fact is bro, you threw my name in to one of your rants at turk, for no real reason, when you know I'm as up front with you as can be..... Riddles my arse.....

Oh btw, the answer was Turnbull....... Epileptic fit - having a "turn"..... First month of may - falls in taurus - Taurus the bull...... Turn - Bull.....

Lift ya game dude..... lol

Turkey thanks for your reply and yes, education is indeed a no-brainer. Along with healthcare and infrastructure investment, it's something that is obviously crucial to the country but the LNP are happy to gut them in the most cynical and brutal way.

Along with the public broadcaster of course.

But the recent conversation on this thread has been about a sustainable population and an Australia that can still be seen as somewhat natural and beautiful and not endless sprawling suburbs housing 50 million people.

You continue to equate any talk of a sustainable population with racism - I asked you for a solution to ponzi-scheme immigration and you gave me "education".

As crucial as education is, I reckon for a liveable future Australia we're going to have to do better than that, don't you?

I'm no One Nation fan but I'm old enough to understand when to be pragmatic.

Well Andy, I don't know if I "equate ANY talk of a sustainable population with racism" [my emphasis]. We are talking about Hanson, yes? And the thin veil thrown up by the likes of Blowie in regards to immigration and now its impacts on workers, and specifically the various visa rorts and how they have been and are encouraged and exploited, politically by the LNP, no? The thin veil that is pretty much opaque.

In that real regard, real education investment negates this real need for skilled foreign labour. STEM, VET, apprenticeships etc. And as you rightly say, the LNP, has gutted and continues to gut this investment in the "most cynical and brutal way". I'd add "purposeful" too.

It's a bugger these days that adding links to anything is hit n miss on here, but I'm sure if you trawl around you'll see sustainable development and population positions and discussions from political parties at all levels, NGOs, the UN etc etc. The same for urban planning and development, infrastructure etc.

Compare and contrast.

BUT engaging with this kind of stuff, seriously?

"It's de rigueur these days to voice an opposition to racism.....even though, most would vomit at the thought of living amongst a truly foreign society in any meaningful fashion for an extended period.

Life in a a provincial Indian town , replete with sanctioned rapes and slut stoning carried out by a dozen village elders "

Great segue-way there, by the way. So much wrong with all that. Equating raising any concerns about racism with mere fashion? Howzabout living in a "truly foreign society in any meaningful fashion for an extended period" in say, Alice Springs - Utopia! - to get your vomit on? Just don't mention the R word...the injuns are coming (Hindus? Christians? Muslims? Sikhs? Buddhists? North? South? East? West? Bollywood???)

And because a small number of fellow Australians support Hanson and come out with stuff like that, now's the time for a 'reasonable' debate??

You may call it pragmatism, probably Dick Smith does too. It's reminiscent of the 'debate' on here that sprang up round the time of the Don Dale incident. It descended into 'reasonable' discussions about Aboriginality and funding and 18 friggin' C, and not the horrors perpetrated and witnessed?!

And faced with blatantly racist bullshit, it's time for a 'reasonable' debate about population control and immigration and 'multiculturalism' and 'muslims'? All in aid of the 'workers'?

(Whilst Pauline supports the ABCC?! Now THAT is truly vomitous!)

Fuck you carry on Turkey.

Two seperate issues.

Can be interrelated .

Often aren't.

Can you discuss immigration and population control without mentioning racism.

If not, you're a fucking moron.

PS you really need to work on your delivery, I still can't understand your point eighty percent of the time .

PPS For better or worse , you've obviously never been a worker. Not in the modern incarnation that sees jobs preferences to foreigners. So maybe reserve your judgement on the thinking of those that have until you've got a bit of insight into their situation.

Not racist to be entitled to preferential treatment in the society you are a part of.

"Can you discuss immigration and population control without leaking racism.

If not, you're a fucking moron."

There fixed your rhetorical for ya. I'm a fixer.

Yawn

And you are, to quote your big IQ-ed self, a fucking moron.

Do you know what a fluffer is? Quick, google.

Who's fluffin' who?

What's ballooning mean? Is that in Roger's Profanisaurus?

Snore

Fuck...stop it. You're killing me!

First it's the self-proclaimed IQ malarkey, and now you're the "main player" that I'm "massaging"?!

Whoah! Easy, big fella!

As for "unambiguous opinion" about Hanson and her ilk? Erm, not coming through loud n clear enough for ya? You need a "please explain"?

Sheesh! You're not on the turps again, are ya?

Straight from Pauline's mouth (piece):

"One Nation believes that immigration should be open for debate and a population policy in place. Australians have the right to a cohesive society and deny immigration to anyone who does not abide by our law, culture, democracy, flag or Christian way of life. Australians have been tolerant and welcome new migrants coming to find a new homeland. We don’t want or need migrants bringing their problems, laws, culture and opposing religious beliefs on us."

Discuss.

Actually, before discussing that, can someone "please explain" this?

"the new concept ( since the mid nineties ) of racism being the most heinous crime one can be accused of , on par with paedophilia , was introduced by the same people that wish to divide and conquer the unity of the Australian labour movement through multiculturalism.

That being the Neo liberals.

These protagonists are responsible for the depreciation of labour costs via flooding the market with foreign labour and they introduced this concept as a way to silence the voice of dissent .

Unfortunately, traditional opponents of the Neo liberals swallowed the entire " dire race relations" subtext and lept to the defence of an unvictimised wave of immigrants into Australia and embarked on a crusade of unfounded ,and ultimately self destructive , identity politics warfare that alienated the core base of their supporters.

That being the workers."

snooze

yawn

Yes, yes, I think I've got it. I think I can tie both things together here...

Pauline and One Nation are racists AND paedophiles! Got it!

Cheers!

Yeah mate, well done.

all this talk of skin in tbe game...or not...I couldn't overlook this

the intellectual yet idiot

But the problem is the one-eyed following the blind: these self-described members of the “intelligentsia” can’t find a coconut in Coconut Island, meaning they aren’t intelligent enough to define intelligence hence fall into circularities — but their main skill is capacity to pass exams written by people like them. With psychology papers replicating less than 40%, dietary advice reversing after 30 years of fatphobia, macroeconomic analysis working worse than astrology, the appointment of Bernanke who was less than clueless of the risks, and pharmaceutical trials replicating at best only 1/3 of the time, people are perfectly entitled to rely on their own ancestral instinct and listen to their grandmothers (or Montaigne and such filtered classical knowledge) with a better track record than these policymaking goons.

https://medium.com/@nntaleb/the-intellectual-yet-idiot-13211e2d0577

"He thinks people should act according to their best interests and he knows their interests, particularly if they are “red necks” or English non-crisp-vowel class who voted for Brexit. When plebeians do something that makes sense to them, but not to him, the IYI uses the term “uneducated”. What we generally call participation in the political process, he calls by two distinct designations: “democracy” when it fits the IYI, and “populism” when the plebeians dare voting in a way that contradicts his preferences"

the only "interests" trump is concerned with are his own

remove [] around [s]crewing for a working link

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/12/09/hey-white-working-class...

.... and the parasite isn't even president yet. all this can only ever end badly just like our little divided nation experience.

There seems to be a contradiction here. Firstly, we don't direct evidence of Russian hacking, although the hackers have been 'identified' but not made public. Not being in the US, I assume it is fair to say that releasing Hillarys emails would be embarrassing for here, probably for the simple fact that she was dumb enough to use her own server. The paradox is that Wikileaks publicised the leaked emails - Wikileaks !! Why would Wikileaks do this.
If, as the report stated, the Russians have something on the republicans then what is it. Would it be enough to impeach Trump.
All seems highly speculative and conjecture. I think this 'interference' needs to be spelt out.

Ooooooweeee! It's all happening! Blowie's self-redactions/assessments, and a last gasp bit of that Taleb dude again (First Tim Foilhat, David H. Koch, then Manbatty-boy, now InSippo), and that's just in Swellnet world! In that other 'reality show' Trump's con-man march continues...and now the CIA and Russia and Julian. Sheesh! Who's writing this script?! Where's my Monsanto-drenched popcorn?

you don't get it turkeyman..

it's not that trump is good...it's just that the alternative was so fucking woefully bad

evidenced by the fact that none of you clinton clan have bothered to answer questions or defend her

come on someone, tell us why clinton would've been better

I dare you!

There is no Clinton clan on here. There never was. I'd venture there is no-one on here that voted in the US election, let alone was eligible to.

Having said that, there's plenty of Trump-proselytizers?! Or rather, there WERE...Where they go? Fun's done as the inevitable 'real' Trump bares his con-man arse to his 'supporters' and the world??

Trump is a joke, and/or a horror show. End of Empire and/or End of Days? Oooweeee! Stay tuned...

As Australians, what can be gleaned from our US (and UK) english-speaking counterparts? What stuff will be learned (good and/or bad)?

(Also, just because we kinda speak the same lingo, don't over-conflate the experiences here and there...eg population size, voting arrangements etc etc)

Turkey so after all this chat you never did tell us of your preference for Australia's future. A sustainable population? Unlimited immigration?

Out of interest, what is a sustainable population. Let's say for Aus. Now, just think what the Club of Rome thought a few years back and see if their predictions came up.

When people use the words sustainable population I immediately think environment first but I'm sure that's atypical.

Love this Instagram account

or this

assange got his wikileaks from the Russians and has already petitioned Trump , about not being extradited to the USA.
I find it rather amusing that Trump now has a mandate to execute his policies , with control of the congress and Senate , and Australia is now just stuck in nowhere land with no clear mandate anywhere !

Australia will aimlessly flail around not doing much of anything , at least the seppos can and are doing something , even if you don't like it!

Want to really get your 'conspiracy' on? Chuck "Trump", "Putin", "Rex Tillerson", "ExxonMobil" and "Rosneft" into your search engine of choice.

Booya!

"Turkey so after all this chat you never did tell us of your preference for Australia's future. A sustainable population? Unlimited immigration?"

AndyM, they're the two choices, huh? Where? In the real world or on here? And what do those two terms even mean?

Actually, I choose a)*. Whatever. Done. Like 18C, this 'debate' needs no oxygen really. What's Bob Katter and Andrew Wilkie up to these days (remember them)?

*b) means what again? maybe that's a go-er. Dunno. It ain't keeping me up at night.

Is there a thread you can take it to? "Unlimited immigration vs Sustainable Population" (definitions pending)...

is there any question that will be answerred with an answer rather than a question from the turkeyman?

you're harder to get answers out of than tonybarber....and that's saying something!!

at least you engage in the question I guess, rather than blatantly ignoring it, ...but geez...up there with tonybarber...inhabiting some lofty grounds there

The question of whether we should grow the population at the equivalent of a new Canberra each year isn't relevant .......

Like 18c ?

The debate isn't worth giving oxygen to ?

Back to guessing the possible intentions of the nominal head of a country 8000 kms away then.....

Because he's a bad, bad man.

The worst !

The fact that a man such as Xi Jinping runs the most populous country in the world and is an aggressive expansionist that is stoking the fires of Chinas supremacy daily probably isn't worth a mention .

Back to what Trump MIGHT do to destabilise the world.

Snore.

InSippo, all hail the straw-men!

(Pssst, you're on the wrong thread, Blowie. This one's called TRUMP. Gonna self-redact again, comrade? All together now, "I like Chinese...I like Chinese...They only come up to your knees...They're cute and they're cuddly and they’re ready to please...)

Sypkan - Question is ??
Must have missed it in all the .....
No, the question is - what is deemed to be a sustainable immigration?

So lame Turkey.

I give you two possible starting points out of god knows how many and you decide on a pubescent answer like that?

Seriously, what would you prefer to see happen in Australia's future?

Why don't you actually constructively contribute to some of these threads instead of continuing to shit in your hand and throw it at people (who at least aren't afraid to voice their beliefs).

FFS. You've read/heard of "framing debates", yeah, Andy M? Lakoff?

He devotes a chapter in his book The Political Mind to the subject of framing:

In it, he asserts that: …”we think in terms of frames and metaphors that fit our worldviews, and language can be chosen to activate frames, metaphors and worldviews.” He goes onto say: “Framing is not just a matter of slogans. It is a mode of thought, a mode of action, a sign of character. It is not just words, though words do have to be said over and over again.”

He warns that if you accept the opponent’s frame, you are trapped.

Forget the ape-shit, do some thinking. Don't be afraid.

You've been framed (by Hanson no less!) Pubescent enough for ya?

As for "Seriously, what would you prefer to see happen in Australia's future?"

I don't see Hanson, Dick Smith and dumb-ass notions of 'sustainable immigration' (emphasis on dumb-ass) as THE reason to support a political party.

I would prefer to see Murdoch die soon though. Literally and figuratively.

And I thought Occy was the worst dancer in the surfing community.....

"In it, he asserts that: …”we think in terms of frames and metaphors that fit our worldviews, and language can be chosen to activate frames, metaphors and worldviews.” He goes onto say: “Framing is not just a matter of slogans. It is a mode of thought, a mode of action, a sign of character. It is not just words, though words do have to be said over and over again.”"

I wish I knew how to add that to your David Lynch quote.

Even you've got to laugh at that Turkey.

PS Here's a shocking piece of intell just come to light : Language can also be used to answer direct questions.... directly !

Who'd have thought ?

Maybe it's further into your book on strategic political debating and you just haven't gotten to that page yet.