Trump
Yep ressentiment for sure, bad case by the looks!
Haha David if you really watched what I posted you would know that we have been cooked some more than other's.
DAVID H. KOCH! Ha ha! DAVID H. KOCH!
AND A SELF-PROCLAIMED 'ALT-RIGHT-ER'!
Ha ha ha! Stop it! You're killing me...
Poor bugger.
Caps will get your message across, you ressentiment bro?
Earth calling DAVID H. KOCH...
BTW why didn't you just name yourself after Milo Yiannopoulos (he loves Trumpy)...bit long I s'pose...and he's, well, you know...or that Nassim Taleb unit? Hang on, he was a Sanders man.
What about just calling yourself DONALD TRUMP? No conflicts there. Donald lurves the Donald.
There. Fixed it.
I'm a fixer.
D'cock writes "Poor form sheepshit, you do realise that using retard in the pejorative is offensive to downies and other mentally challenged people like social justice snuffy."
Oh really..... Why don't you write down your concerns and mail them to someone that gives a shit...
Turkman writes "BTW why didn't you just name yourself after Milo Yiannopoulos (he loves Trumpy)"
Nah.... David likes Koch..... He loves Koch..... And there's nothing wrong with that..... So let him call himself Koch.
But Trump doesn't love Koch. What a bummer...for Koch. Milo loves Trump, but.
I'm confused.
You're confused? Well...... Apparently it's all Mal Fraser's fault according to Adolf Dutton....
"if they're not confused, they don't get it".......
Forget that 'alt-right' shite, heeeeeeeeeeeere's 'neo-reaction'!
https://theawl.com/the-darkness-before-the-right-84e97225ac19#.sdgau75zy
What we do without the turkey to keep everyone illuminated, 'with it' so to speak, who would laugh at sheepshit's homophobic jokes?
D'cock... It's plain to see you're too much of a sook to be a 1/2 decent troll.
.
That's some pretty dark sheet goin on there turkeyman
A lot of aspergers nut jobs not getting enough sunlight, not attractive to me at all turkeyman, I like surfing and stuff.....computers suck, aspergers sucks, people locked in concrete boxes sucks, individually not healthy... combined together... damn ugly...
It's all very fitting for our times though, all a bit chicken and egg really
You better lift your game.... the competition is fierce....can't you reduce that shit you post to five dot points and a conclusion?
There's a lot of Malthusian versus cornucopian going on, maybe not Lamb, he's a nihilist nut job with a science fiction script in his head
The question is what to do about it turkeyman?
Condemning normal people for their concerns about the sale of their children futures' has just fostered it's development in the dark corners. Conversations were needed along time ago, not now
To be honest I have no fear at all of all this white supremacist hyperbole flying around at the moment. People aren't going back to that rubbish. Every country has it's pure blood fruitcakes, in Japan they drive around in utes with massive loud speakers, even in the hyper-conforming groupthink monoculture of Japan most people think they're dickheads. All this overzealous PC shit just seems to come from above to control power and place it above questioning. it had a place but it fed on itself so much it's now a beast on it's own, self perpetuating, policed by virtue signalling mid level minions
The whole point is, with the internet you can no longer control what people say read access think, old power structures seem to be having trouble adjusting to that, if they don't tell us someone else will...
Trump's future, assuming he survives the electoral college, will be decided in the Senate. Legislation passed by the House, first has to pass through the Senate committee system which has the power to delay and/or amend it out of functional existence before it gets to the floor. Committee chairmen are powerful figures and one, McCain of the Armed Forces committee, has already indicated concerns about Trump's policies. Not a great start.
Legislation that does manage to get out of committee then faces two opportunities for the minor party to exercise their greatest weapon, the filibuster, which entitles any Senator to talk at indefinite length, relevant or not. They can, quite literally, read the Bible into the Congressional Record, unchallenged. The first opportunity is to filibuster on the debate to bring the legislation to a vote. The second is to filibuster on the debate before the vote itself. To shut down a filibuster (cloture) requires a two thirds majority. This will be impossible to achieve on any of Trump's more controversial proposals.
Equally important is that the Senate has the power to impeach the President and, given Trump's performance so far, are unlikely to have to wait long for a reason. Republicans have as much motivation as Democrats to get rid of him. To survive he would need much more powerful and politically capable allies than he has at the moment. So all you, belated, Trumpistas, enjoy the moment, it's unlikely to last.
So you will be rubbing your hands with glee if Trump falters and the world resumes it's inexorable march toward irreducible inequality ?
Lot of i words in there for you BB , but you get the picture - same , same as before the vote but more of the not so good stuff such as the majority of the western world populated by the working poor and lots more war in the more foreign parts of the world.
Sounds fun , huh ?
Lots of problems in the world Blowin'. Personally I find it hard to believe that Trump offers solutions to any of them. Narcissists tend to see everything thought the lens of self-interest. He also lacks the intellectual horse power, the political experience and the moral judgement to hold high office. He is an example of what happens when nations fail to adequately educate their population and allow ignorant medieval philosophies to flourish. Oh and lots of words? Maybe I have something more than insults and banter to contribute to the debate.
So the USA is a lot dumber than 4 years ago when they elected Obama ?
Ignorant medieval philosophies ?
You referring to religion ?
Trump has no answers for reducing inequality..........he'll accelerate the process beyond belief.
You're right freeride, his tax cuts are just fucking scary, but who knows they might get the economy rocking
The thing is the other side's agenda for fighting inequality was doing nothing either. In fact it was having negative effects as it focussed on the unique specialness of individuals in the category of the well to do, while those not wealthy enough to feel special - to be 'diverse' can suck it up white boy ....and girl!
This stuff ain't so bad, but as this article points out, 25 yeas of that crap has created the me me me generation we have now, who don't understand democracy, and who are unwilling to accept the will of the people when it doesn't go the way of the snowflake.
Trump is an arsehole, but finding balance is difficult for all sides, to quote Bernie, as the article does, people are sick and tired of hearing about liberals bathrooms... hear fucking hear!!!
Priorities snowflakes priorities.... a black lesbian Hispanic bisexual underworked former factory worker is not empowered by Clinton's glass ceiling smashing.... actually they're quite resentful of it
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/20/opinion/sunday/the-end-of-identity-lib...
Blowin asks " So the USA is a lot dumber than 4 years ago when they elected Obama ?"
Some questions need not be asked in the current circumstances.
Communication 'liberals'... not excommunication!
http://theweek.com/articles/662656/beware-liberal-thought-police
The USA isn't dumber than 4 years ago, they are just obviously frustrated and looking for change, Obama was very likeable and expected to be a kind of saviour but things didn't really change too much under his presidency.
Voters had two choices this time to elect Hillary who would definitely not provide much change, or take a risk and flip the coin on Trump.
It's really that simple.
Sypkan, what is scary is people voting for Trump (or Brexit) and not knowing in the slightest the full consequences of what might eventuate.
If you want to see what Trumps tax cuts look like study what happened to America under Reagan ... the rich took the take cuts and held onto them and necessary reduction in government services given the lower tax base hit the poorest hardest ... Trumps rust belters.
Now you say the other side weren't doing anything .... two things .... (1.) there is no comparing the Democrat Party to Trump, the two aren't equal in anyway and that will increasingly emerge over the next 1-4 years (however long his presidency lasts). Having Trump for president is like asking your motor mechanic to perform open heart surgery, he is not up to the job. (2.) your statement implies the Democrats doing nothing (which is wrong) is a bad thing in comparison to not knowing what knowing damage Trump will do. The Democrats had a plan under Obama but it was mostly blocked by the Republicans in Congress/Senate and Clinton also had a plan (Sanders inspired). So your statement isn't correct.
You reference that there has been 25 years (possibly more) of political crap in the US and that takes me back to before the Reagan years when both sides of politics in the US co-operated with each other for the "good of the country" but with and since Reagan that sense of good will, of working together for the good of the country has been thrown out (sounds familiar doesn't it? also happening here where its better to get a political point on your opposite than to work for the betterment of the country). The crap the article refers to isn't a product of the "left" but IMO more a product of the right e.g. Howard's "battle of ideas" that continues to this day e.g. Dutton's statements of yesterday attempting to rewrite Fraser's legacy.
By the way, if you want to know the last president that saw the economy do well and those rust belters do better look no further than a Clinton.
Actually Trump probably will get some people back to work with a massive expansion of the military, and now that he has appointed three hawkish cats to cabinet (Mike Pompeo and Mike Flynn) we'll see how all these "hail mary, he can't be all that bad" cats think about Trump bringing peace and stability to the world.
Do you really think he's going to have a massive expansion of the military (mostly the navy) and leave all those warships idle in the harbour?
Really?
"
The USA isn't dumber than 4 years ago, they are just obviously frustrated and looking for change, Obama was very likeable and expected to be a kind of saviour but things didn't really change too much under his presidency.
Voters had two choices this time to elect Hillary who would definitely not provide much change, or take a risk and flip the coin on Trump.
It's really that simple.
Indo , one of the greatest problems faced by voters in the USA , is they were sold the fallacy that the USA was in big trouble and that Obama had done little to better the lives Americans , in fact he was and is responsible for America not being great anymore.
The real story of course is a lot different ,as when Obama came to power Bush nicely shook his hand and mentioned ,
Ah just $700 Billion to the banks to try and stop the GFC meltdown , and the economys in the worst condition since the 1920's depression!
Ah got into a bit of a war in Iraq , ah and Afghanistan , and there's a new terrorist group called Al Queda , with an Osama Bin Laden Character at Large , who wants death to all americans...
now Barak just inherited republican Mess , unprecedented in USA history and so today the USA need to put up interest rates , their unemployment levels are 2% off what they call full employment (around the 4% mark) they have the best performing economy in the world , got Bin Laden , got the bulk of their troops out of Iraq and Afghanistan , pretty amazing when you also see that Obamacare was brought in also.
Obama performed a miracle on the USA economy , brought back a bit of class to the USA but being a blackman with a black family certainly did him no favors .
The amazing thing about all of this is now we have a USA president that is at the other end of the spectrum to Obama and the Americans have conveniently overlooked what Obama has delivered for them and now they just want more , because more is more better!!
Trump is the symptom not the problem .....he certainly isn't the solution
But just like a smacky... sometimes you've got to hit rock bottom before things get better
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/nov/18/democratic-party-d...
You're right about politics developing into the unworkable Floyd, everywhere, not just US,, but it seems identity politics contributed to that as well, as everyone bunkers down behind their identity, not accepting other opinions. Not looking at big picture goals to benefit society rather than individuals. I don't like trump's plans at all but the one chance he's got is, he does have that power of the senate that hamstrung Obama.
Even if you don't agree with an agenda, there's a lot to be said for having the ability to get things done. People have lost faith in the system , both here and US because governments couldn't get anything done due to tight numbers.
As that guardian article points out the system has become incredibly top heavy, with both parties (same in oz) full of people who do nothing but fight for power. They produce nothing, just misinformation and diversions. Now I know their worldview is western democracies not actually producing anything. Just having 'professionals' offering services domestically and to the factory countries, but as we've seen that doesn't quite work. Not least because Asian countries are better at financial services and personal 'you're a goddess and deserve it' type services than we are. Plus people have pride in what they do, or at least like to. Our goal s to be a consumer society, it's a bit of commie perspective, but there's no pride in being a consumer society.
Trump's whole thing is cutting through the crap, the bureaucracy and red tape. This is not good for the environment and stuff, but it does have the potential to get things moving. I never thought (and still don't fully believe because it's brietbart) that manufacturing could come back, but when you read the difference in labour costs for a $700 I phone between US and china is only $12, this guys cockamamie ideas might just work.... If they don't who cares, gave it a go, he will be convincingly voted out next election and he will have still achieved the biggest political achievement in our life time
Draining the swamp!!!
I don't think he's a warmonger, he's building stuff up for a defensive strategy, not Hilary's interventionist one, he might become dangerous, drunk with power - like Hilary did - but people won't stand for it
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2016/11/18/silicon-valley-bows-t...
I reposted because several attempts at editing didn't work
You guys really need to sort that spam software out... it's crap...Id be looking for a refund
While you're at it, give brietbart some pointers, that website really is a dog to use
The best darkroom dwellers in the business and that's their website? ....seriously... it's a pig of a thing. And the capslock headlines..... hilarious...I now see where Koch and co. get it from
I agree about your comment about "identity politics" sypkan.
Leaders lead and therein is the problem. Where is the leadership?
We are constantly sold the politics of fear and exclusion by our political leaders for their political gain - whatever the issue its always there ... be afraid of this or that.
IMO the right of politics and their media are particularly good at this, again this battle of ideas thing, and it is seen everywhere. E.G. In the UK the right promised to spend all that cash spent in/on the EU on British health care only to change its mind the day after the vote, Trump with his wall or here with stop the boats, debt and deficit and leaners and lifters blah blah bullshit.
It the job of leaders to unite and lead people in a direction. What we have here are political opportunists whose modus operandi is to divide people into camps (your identity politics theme), make them angry (e.g. Hanson) and then exploit the differences.
IMHO its a crass dirty political technique used mostly by the right and its lazy, its far harder to bring all the people along on a national building idea.
We all deserve better but the answer isn't voting for a Trump or a Hanson or the next big populist politician that sees an opportunity in the market.
Its important to note that under Obama the rich (top 10% wage earners) got richer whilst the rest (90%) actually got poorer. More than under the Bush era. Data from the Social Security Administration shows that 38 per cent of all American workers earned less than $US20,000 last year. The federal poverty level for a family of five is $US28,410. Incidentally, figures this week from the ABS show wages growth of 1.9 per cent over the past year, half what it was four years ago and the lowest on record. Without a middle class that has disposable income, countries don’t grow by much, mainly because the rich tend to accumulate assets with their excess cash while the poor and middle class spend it. And you can’t spend what you don’t have.
This trend, repeated across the Western world but especially in the UK, is a reversal of what many members would have experienced in their youth. The post-war boom, which led to a huge and prosperous middle class, is now beginning to look like an outlier. It’s possible Trump’s appeal was in the implicit promise, sincere or otherwise, to reverse this trend.
TB, your statement about rich accumulating assets is a compelling reason for Trump not to go ahead with his tax cuts which will favour them. It is equally the very reason Turn-bullshiter should proceed here with tax cuts to the wealthy and business. Far better to spend the money directly on infrastructure.
Statistics can prove anything you like! Comparing the Obama era with that of Bush is disingenuous. There would possibly be thousands of reasons why the statistic may be right or wrong (I'm not checking it) but as we all know the Republicans played very hard ball with anything Obama wanted to do that would improve the quality of the "working poor" and/especially or around taxation measures. Just how many times did the Republicans take the country to the brink of bankruptcy by refusing a continuation of debt limits?
Linking your last comment to BB's on another thread about these forums, its one thing to disagree its another to misrepresent what the facts really are, as I said disingenuous.
"peak neoliberalism, where a distorted version of identity politics is used to defend an oligarchy and a national security state, celebrating diversity in management of exploitation and warfare."
http
://www.salon.
com/2016/11/19/neoliberalisms-epic-fail-the-reaction-to-hillary-clintons-loss-exposed-the-impotent-elitism-of-liberalism/
At his satanic majesty's request? In case you missed this from Steve Bannon.
" Darkness is good. Dick Cheney. Darth Vader. Satan - that's power. It only helps us when they get it wrong - when they are blind to who we are; and what we're doing"
Black mass at the White House?
If you were wondering about the contrast between reportage and fact, then here is a little insight. .http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/457-occupation-lis...
Read the comments after the article.
Not forgetting that articles like this have been a staple for years. The journalist basing their biased argument on false morality as opposed to community reality.
For what is nationalism if not communityism ?
Is that a word ?
Fuck it, it is now.
For too long have the abstract conceptualists behind the idea of globalism hijacked the reality of nationalism and painted it as a one way path to the rare and unlikely ideologies of a certain nation circa 1939.
The Australian nation is a mere extrapolation of the communities that make up our island home. They are not as diverse as the media would have you believe. We have a national identity , a national culture and a national set of virtues.
Blindboy: getting emotional at the political conversations he is privy to.
Why don't you backtrack to when the USA was about to invade Iraq, remember how you felt THEN when something real was going down , then realise you're tilting at windmills regarding any "possible future " evilness that may or may not occur.
You're so keen to fight the good fight - why are you upset when someone may potentially derail all the evils that you should have been rallying against for the last 30 years ?
Blowin' this time you have totally defeated my powers of comprehension and logic. Do you want to try that again so that it makes something like sense? How did I feel about the invasion of Iraq? A bit jaded since I had been forcibly ejected from the Senate for protesting against Gulf War 1, so I actually landed in Padang the day of shock and awe and spent two weeks surfing the Mentawais with only three boats in the entire area.
"Anti trump protest in Melbourne"
This is just weird.
http://
www.
sbs.com.au/news/article/2016/11/20/melb-cbd-closed-trump-rallies
Whacko I was at the ments around the same time.
I was as aghast at the cocks perpetrating war in the Middle East as I am at those that wish to continue business as normal, with a tasty little provocation of Russia thrown in for good measure.
Why are you so hesitant to back someone that MAY NOT continue in this vein if your so against it in the first place ?
Because he wasn't married to someone that was president and by proxy was assumed to be eligible for the job themselves ala Clinton ?
Is Michelle Obama qualified because she wears appropriate clothes and doesn't make a prick of herself with when reciting her preordained speeches ?
USA as is will continue to kill innocents in a war you decry unless opposed now as you did then.
Kudos for the original efforts against the war by the way....but what effect did that approach have ?
Fuck ALL effect.
PS. You never answer my question regarding your feelings on the current ( pretend) attempt by the government and opposition to abolish - whoops, too strong a word , minimise - still too strong, water down (?) the use of inappropriate and redundant immigrant labour ?
Actually they're not even going to water it down are they ?
Let's just agree that they'll briefly shine a dim light on the subject before moving too radically increase immigration of all forms.
To be fair to the Donald, I'm thinking all news about his presidency ought to be in the entertainment section of newspapers and the media.
Blowin' in case you have missed the numerous reports on Trump's complete unsuitability for the position. I will summarize. He is a racist,misogynist bully who has demonstrated almost complete ignorance of the political realities of foreign policy. To believe thatTrump's Presidency will be anything other than a disaster requires a degree of willful ignorance. Good luck with that.
BB please explain, Identity, culture and virtues of Australia?
" The Australian nation is a mere extrapolation of the communities that make up our island home. They are not as diverse as the media would have you believe. We have a national identity , a national culture and a national set of virtues."
would you include our immigration/refugee policy or the treatment of Indigenous peoples , and or that One Nation is now the fastest growing political party , and what about our cricket team?
Interesting to see how many are just dismissing a result in the land of democracy. It is even more of concern that these same also want the result to fail.
sharkman that was not my quote so I am am not entering that discussion.
tb no-one with any knowledge of the US system would consider it anything but a plutocracy. Rule by the rich. On that score nothing has changed. As for wanting it to fail, why not? Trump is clearly a threat to the global economy, world peace and the progress of anti-discrimination. The US electorate is characterised by poor education and over-exposure to news media dominated by the interests of a very small section of the wealthiest people in the country. The fact that enough of them were taken in does not mean the rest of us should be.
"You better lift your game.... the competition is fierce....can't you reduce that shit you post to five dot points and a conclusion?"
Righto, InSypo...how's this?
This expresses the 'Alt-right' formula that Alex Birch and Brett Stevens worked up for AMERIKA (helluva web-site...emphasis on 'hell'):
a) Anti-democracy. Realizing that mob rule and trends do not successfully substitute for leadership by quality people.
b) Human Biodiversity (HBD). Recognizing the differences between groups, and more importantly individuals, and that every ability fits a normal distribution pattern in every population.
c) Ethnic Self-Determination. Every ethnic group needs its own self-rule and its own continent. This is not an argument against any specific ethnic group but a recognition that each group has its own self-interest and that under diversity these clash. Diversity does not work, no matter which groups are the ingredients.
d) Transcendental Purpose. We must find some way to connect to the beauty of this world and understand nature as an order superior to our own intentions, possibly including the metaphysical side of nature which is described by the various religions.
e) Anti-equality. Equality works for arithmetic, not people and not groups, including social castes, races, ethnic groups and families. People are different, with different abilities that are mostly genetic if not all genetic.
In a time when many people want to enter the Alt Right, and control it by redefining it, it is important to remember this bottom line: The Alt Right is against equality.
(All their words...defo not mine. Seem familiar?)
BB, I'm not a US citizen and don't have a good handle on its government but I would guess that most US citz, would disagree about the 'plutocracy'. Interestingly, the idea of 'plutocracy' has become more pronounced under Obama - the worst period for the middle class. This apparently started with the Clinton era, continuing under Bush then got worse with Obama.
I don't see the 'clearly a threat to world peace'. Russia does not seemed alarmed at this stage. China is the unknown. Where else or who else could impact 'world peace'.
Should one accept the result.
Tonyb,
you don't think Trump won because of his promises to disrupt the plutocracy (ie: slogans like 'drain the swamp' of elites)?
I felt the resentment of the 'plutocracy' was the core sentiment of the Trump vote. Fear of an 'elitist' led Globalisation of industry was Trump's construct. His argument: The 'elites' took the industry away from America and lined their pockets, opened up the borders. Now Trump offers to close the doors and bring industry back in a fight for 'equality' for the middle class industry (who dominated the Trump vote).
Out of interest, do you think Obama led the nation toward a worsening of the existing plutocracy by way of his own policy or do you think it was due lack of change from previous agendas & other forces at play?
YL, From this distance and from I saw, yes, I think Trump did disrupt the 'plutocracy' and more of course. The info I have is that middle America suffered from Clinton to Bush to Obama with the Obama era being the worse. Trump seemed to promote major changes and it seems this resonated with a large majority. In essence the 'plutocracy' has become more pronounced over the last few presidencies. Not sure if the US is a pure plutocracy. I'm sure the average US citizen does not want it. But I don't believe in the 'threat to world peace'. That just seems to be many not accepting the result.
BTW, this is what Keating is saying about our Labor party also.
So how does a billionaire becoming President disrupt rule by the Rich?
It really is staggering beyond belief what people are now saying to in the political world and in the media to "normalise" a Trump victory and presidency.
I heard Trump's authorised biographer speak yesterday. He was absolutely scathing of the hollowness of the man calling him a serious "almost pathological" liar and "a flawed man" who has spent his entire life driven by only one thing, that is, his own self interest". He added he will not change as president, "he will be entirely driven by what is in his personal best interest".
It cannot be stated enough, there is nothing normal about this. Trump is not, and never will be, up to the job. The best America and the world can hope for is an impeachable scandal early in 2017 so I'm with Blindboy on this one.
Tonybarber, I note your comment about the presidential eras, but may I suggests the seeds for any American plutocracy were sown by Reagan and his voodoo economics tax cuts. Subsequent presidents had to deal with the mess left behind although Bush had a good crack of lowing taxes while increasing spending to further weaken the US economy. Clinton did rectify the mess some what and the economy was in way better shape after his 2 terms. Any objective discussion of the Obama presidency would include a discussion on how he was hamstrung by the republican congress and the senate. Now jump forward to the present day, how will Trump's proposed tax cuts help the rust belts?
tb re the threat to world peace. We now have a narcissistic impulsive bully with no foreign policy experience with the capacity to unilaterally start a nuclear war.......and you don't think that is a risk?
The most perceptive piece yet written about him.
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2016/04/america-tyranny-donald-trum...