Guerilla War Carnage
You might be able to make links further back but for me the latest round of terrorism and carnage goes straight back to Gulf War 1 and the liberation of Kuwait. This was a fundamental strategic error in which short term feel good politics dominated long term sound policy.
In the build up to the invasion US troops were stationed in Saudi Arabia, severely pissing off a wealthy fundamentalist by the name of Osama, who considered their presence on the holy Arabian soil a blasphemy against Islam, so he planned revenge in the form of 9/11 which, for reasons which become harder and harder to fathom, resulted in Gulf War 2. Saddam's army were forcibly disbanded but, once the U.S. forces were substantially withdrawn , reappeared as the best organised military elements of ISIS.
The solution? Anyone got a spare DeLorean?
tonybarber wrote:@talkturk…sometimes that tired old altruistic BS is important. Maybe the genocide of peoples is a good reason.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com.au/entry/isis-yazidi-massacre_55ccc5d7e4b0...I would guess that if a kid or women was being belted by a bloke or if there were a few blokes kicking a downed man, you would help … I reckon you would.
Has the bloke got a beard? Have the women? Or you can't see because they're in niqabs? Does it matter? Last time I saw a bloke on the ground getting hammered it was a bunch of bouncers going Rodney King on a bikie. Oh, how we laughed.
So, the women and kid are Yazidis and the bloke is ISIL? And I'm the LNP? Hmmm, what to do? What would Jesus do?
Actually, those Yazidis are always copping it. What did we do when the Turks gave them a backhander? Or Saddam? That's right, we went in and freedomised them, yeah? That's why we invaded Iraq!
Je suis LNP! I'm going in!
Actually, I've got a sneaking suspicion that top of ISILs shitlist of death are other muslims. They're the ones doing the dying in numbers. So, whaddyareckon Tony Barber, let's send in the troops to save the muslims? You're down with that, yeah?
Hang on, didn't you write this just before:
"Not a good look for those that believe or trust Islam."
and this earlier:
"But what I seem to notice is that there seems to be (note seems) little effort of the Muslims to counter this. IS would have to be well organised, feed and armed. Granted its complex but geeez no one can turn a blind eye to it. One key point - you do not have to be 'far right' to distrust or dislike the Muslim religion and laws associated with it. "
Apart from the sloppiness/retardedness of the grammar, that doesn't sound real positive. What side of the fence are you on, buddy?
And Tony Barber, I mean, is that your real name? Really? I'm changing mine to Don Fucking Lane! Exactly, like that. The shitter. Confess, Tony, are you a shitter?
Don Lane here … sorry but not your buddy. Maybe have a look at the list of Islamic efforts over the recent years.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Islamist_terrorist_attacks
If you wish to support ISIS thats your problem …
BTW, I am a barber but can't sing.
You sure can dance though! Tell me how Islam = ISIS. And how I wish to support them?! What tune you dancing to, crackerjack?
Don't get sucked into the Tony Barber vortex (sounds like a band). He's either the Rain man or Machievelli of trolls. Or Daesh's cyber wing? or Pauline Hanson's PR dude? Sama sama.
Fuck, reading some of his other stuff. He's all over the shop. Tony Barber, I'm sure you've seen this, hey buddy?
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-11-17/global-terrorism-index-increase/69...
Prothero... It's totally inaccurate..... Was reading backwards lol ( from recent back) and only got as far as the sydney lindt st siege, which was done by a total nutjob, no affiliated with any islamic movement.... In fact even muslim groups here had warned of his nuttiness..... he was on trial for murdering his wife or something wasn't he? Look, I could hypothetically grab a black flag, leave a note at home, go beserk, and the media would have a field day saying I'm a lone wolf islamic terrorist, when all i was was a nutter who in a mental state decided he wanted to leave a mark.....
Secondly, my point re' list of countries was specific to the syrian war, and ISIS.... There was one lone attack in China, but I think that was more related to Chinese crackdown on its western border, which is full of muslims.. But don't quote me on that.....
freeride76 wrote:Way, way further back SD. Try the crusades.
Actually further FR, there's a vast amount of years between circa 650 and 1096 - and the slaughter certainly was in full effect long before the first crusade. It's been an interesting afternoon reading about the Islamic conquest of what is now Indonesia, and how the previously existing Hindus/Buddhists and Animists fared (hint: they didn't.) Very interesting was the alliance of Siam with the new-on-the-scene Portugese influence which spared this kingdom. Ditto what is now known as the Philippines and Spain.
Sheepdog - sure I've moved from the Sunny Coast to Tassie, then after months of fluffing around in my motorcar we moved to South Australia - but the fault , obviously, lies with the West and its insatiable appetite for oil, which I protested against by attending a rally ( by oil powered vehicle ) twenty years ago.
It's all the Wests fault !
Hypocritical Apologist idiot....
Having said that...if the west had abstained from their economic imperialism in the Middle East , then maybe we would have a legitimate ideological leg to stand on.
Not that we don't if we are countering proper medieval religious stupidity....which it looks like we might be.
Either way.....fuck those murderous cunts.
Send in the SAS at least to learn those backwards fucksticks.
Ah if these guys have the smarts and I hope they don't read swellnet forums, you would think a coordinated series of attacks on US soil, Trump elected and you can probably kiss the world as we know it goodbye!!
velocityjohnno wrote:freeride76 wrote:Way, way further back SD. Try the crusades.
It's been an interesting afternoon reading about the Islamic conquest of what is now Indonesia, and how the previously existing Hindus/Buddhists and Animists fared (hint: they didn't.) .
I'd be pretty interested to know what you've been reading VJ. I've studied Indonesian language&history for a decade and been teaching it for two. It's accepted historical knowledge that conversion to Islam was largely top-down and gradual and generally spread by trade, taking literally centuries for it to filter in to villages and even then restricted to parts of Sumatra and Java for a few centuries more. Not to mention that the 'existing' Hindu/Buddhists empires hadn't been existing there forever either... What's your source? Certainly not Ricklefs!
I,m to nervous to open the links quoted to get more informed. I don't need a swat team turnin up with terrorists around.
Blowin wrote:Sheepdog - sure I've moved from the Sunny Coast to Tassie, then after months of fluffing around in my motorcar we moved to South Australia - but the fault , obviously, lies with the West and its insatiable appetite for oil, which I protested against by attending a rally ( by oil powered vehicle ) twenty years ago.
It's all the Wests fault !
Hypocritical Apologist idiot....
Having said that...if the west had abstained from their economic imperialism in the Middle East , then maybe we would have a legitimate ideological leg to stand on.
Not that we don't if we are countering proper medieval religious stupidity....which it looks like we might be.
Either way.....fuck those murderous cunts.
Send in the SAS at least to learn those backwards fucksticks.
"Send in the SAS"..... Said like a true fucktard..... Tell ya what... Why don't you put your money where your fat mouth is, and Join the army??
Nope..... Blowin wont do that..... He'd rather SOMEONE ELSE do it.... He'd rather SEND OTHERS.... Just like Tony Abbott and these other cretins.... Tones was young and able once..... He could've joined the army... But he chose not to.... It's amazing how many blowins there are out there, calling for our soldiers to be sent, but I don't see too many queues at the base.....
So if you're that worked up, stop talking the talk and walk the walk, ya armchair general..
Actually Sheepy, I've got mates in the SAS and they relish that shit.
Unlike yourself, they know what they stand for.
Your'e nothing but an appeasing yellow shit stain.
Ready to let one thousand years of enlightenment and rational thinking be brushed aside for the vicarious thrill of two minutes contrariness .
Good luck with ISIS then dickhead.
@talkingturk...I may have misread your argy bargy willy wally womble wobble but you mentioned 'why get involved'. These ISIS issue needs to be taken head on. As mentioned before I don't believe the Muslim community has done much specifically here in Aus. The Grand Mufti speech following the Paris event indicates this. As you said all peoples, Muslim alike are being butchered.
Heh, how did you know some people call me 'crackerjack'. Some say I do look a bit like mick Molloy - funny bloke.
"Actually Sheepy, I've got mates in the SAS"...... Ahh bullshit, blowin.... Grab the toilet roll and give your mouth a wipe... If you really had mates in the SAS, you wouldn't mention it.... A grade bullsht artist...
"Hypocritical Apologist idiot"..... You call me an apologist??? Really??? This shows you are a troll of the highest magnitude... And a cretin to boot.. Here's what i said about ISIS;
"Treat these dastardly acts as war crimes and not terrorism"
"And people will see that the attacks on us are for a reason, as INSIDIOUS as they may be...... We can then address these covert attacks on civilians as WAR CRIMES"
" If ISIS was a noble bunch, which they aren't, they would not attack women and children"
"And when ISIS do the soft target stuff, call them out.... Call them out as COWARDS who haven't GOT THE BALLS to attack our strategic targets"
" And of course they use human shields when we are doing so..... Therein is the difference.... ISIS deliberately target innocents... We don't.."
To summarise, I said ISIS are COWARDS committing DASTARDLY ACTS, with NO BALLS, without NOBILITY, who unlike us deliberately target innocents, who are INSIDIOUS and are committing WAR CRIMES, and Blowin says I'm a hypocritical apologist idiot, a yellow shitstain.....
You have the won the 2015 Swellnet Fucktard of the year award.... Even with over a month to go, the competition is closed.... No one can top that......
I don't know Dog, having a squiz through these forums, there are some mighty contenders. Tony Barber's got to be a front runner.
"@talkingturk...I may have misread your argy bargy willy wally womble wobble but you mentioned 'why get involved'. These ISIS issue needs to be taken head on. As mentioned before I don't believe the Muslim community has done much specifically here in Aus. The Grand Mufti speech following the Paris event indicates this. As you said all peoples, Muslim alike are being butchered.
Heh, how did you know some people call me 'crackerjack'. Some say I do look a bit like mick Molloy - funny bloke."
Huh?
Tony, I picture you, literally, as more Mick Malthouse. A mixed-up, bitter, humourless, ex-copper looking rooster (un-ironic moustache and all), with a real bit of crazy round the eyes. Started out as a goat-boater, now mixing it up between a mini-mal and a SUP.
And a Collingwood supporter...or if State-and-code challenged, a Manly man.
Or a muslim.
hope I get an invite to the swell net xmas party
"A mixed-up, bitter, humourless, ex-copper looking rooster (un-ironic moustache and all), with a real bit of crazy round the eyes. Started out as a goat-boater, now mixing it up between a mini-mal and a SUP."
Fuck that's brutal...
talkingturkey wrote:And a Collingwood supporter...or if State-and-code challenged, a Manly man.
If not true that's far worse!
Yeah, might have gone too far. Maybe Port Power ( a little less black n white) or even the Mooloolaba Raging Hombres?
On a more serious note, context, people, context
http://www.counterpunch.org/2015/11/17/the-shadow-of-algeria-the-lost-co...
dandandan wrote:velocityjohnno wrote:freeride76 wrote:Way, way further back SD. Try the crusades.
It's been an interesting afternoon reading about the Islamic conquest of what is now Indonesia, and how the previously existing Hindus/Buddhists and Animists fared (hint: they didn't.) .
I'd be pretty interested to know what you've been reading VJ. I've studied Indonesian language&history for a decade and been teaching it for two. It's accepted historical knowledge that conversion to Islam was largely top-down and gradual and generally spread by trade, taking literally centuries for it to filter in to villages and even then restricted to parts of Sumatra and Java for a few centuries more. Not to mention that the 'existing' Hindu/Buddhists empires hadn't been existing there forever either... What's your source? Certainly not Ricklefs!
Thats they way i understood it also from what I've read and in regards to the animistic areas still left after the Hindu & Buddhist period most of those seem to be to be converted to Christianity or Catholic, places like Lake Toba, Nias, Telos, Mentawais, Sumba, Flores, West Timor and a few other areas without waves.
talkingturkey wrote:Yeah, might have gone too far. Maybe Port Power ( a little less black n white) or even the Mooloolaba Raging Hombres?
On a more serious note, context, people, context
http://www.counterpunch.org/2015/11/17/the-shadow-of-algeria-the-lost-co...
good article highlighting more complexities, my brother in Laws partner is from Algeria her Grand Father was chopped up and his body was scattered all over the joint cos he supported the French. A history of atrocities and the Saudis exporting their fundamentalism, to the world
A great read, interviewing ISIS prisoners:
http://www.thenation.com/article/what-i-discovered-from-interviewing-isi...
From that article above:
“Recruitment [of ISIS] plays upon desires of adventure, activism, romance, power, belonging, along with spiritual fulfillment.”
One of the colleagues mentioned by the author is Scott Atran, an academic based in France.
Check this. It has real implications closer to home.
http://blogs.plos.org/neuroanthropology/2015/04/25/scott-atran-on-youth-...
If that's too heavy going, he writes for media outlets too.
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/sep/04/jihad-fatal-attract...
I'm also reminded of David Hicks and his book Guantanamo: My Journey. It explores from his perspective what attracted him to Islam and why he went off to fight in Kosovo, and then Kashmir. It ticks all the boxes regarding "desires of adventure, activism, romance, power, belonging, along with spiritual fulfillment.”
The bloke was a relatively poor, uneducated loner who worked in a chicken factory in Salisbury, SA! Fuck, if he had just stuck with the Kosovo adventure, he would've been quite the story-teller for all the right reasons.
To counter any real threat here, we have to think about this stuff. THINK. Then act.
Good articles. I'm reminded how naive some people are when I hear them puzzle over ISIS' appeal to Western youth. Did those people never rebel in their own youth? Did they never take an unflinching moral stand or experience the power of teenage conviction?
Have they ever wondered what the appeal of Che Guevara was to Western youth of the 70s and 80s? Can't they see the connections..?
While we are sharing articles. Read this one today about the moral reasoning that we all dabble in when it comes to things like terrorism and war. Highly recommended.
https://newmatilda.com/2015/11/18/spot-the-extremists-the-hard-psycholog...
Agree…interesting articles. Not sure about our 'naivety' ? At present I see the Muslim community as indicated by the Grans Mufti's response as naive, at best. I don't remember any movement in the 70s or 80s where heads were chopped off. Sure I understand the action against the Vietnam war and communism. But I sense this is different. We can discuss the causes, the blame but what is the solution ?
Read Atran above, Mick/Tony. It's about what we face here. Big read. May take a bit.
And mix the Atran with my post about the context in France, and you might start to see why shit happened in Paris. If you actually want to see.
Baby steps.
stunet wrote:Good articles. I'm reminded how naive some people are when I hear them puzzle over ISIS' appeal to Western youth. Did those people never rebel in their own youth? Did they never take an unflinching moral stand or experience the power of teenage conviction?
Have they ever wondered what the appeal of Che Guevara was to Western youth of the 70s and 80s? Can't they see the connections..?
Whilst I hear what your saying, I think it's a massive call to compare a young male/female rebelling in their youth (very normal), to a youth joining the ranks of ISIS & all that it encompasses. Yes any child can be moulded into pretty much anything an adult could conceive, but that's a big difference between a normal young person rebelling IMO. Clearly these youngsters that are becoming entwined with ISIS are being fed bullshit, not healthy parenting....
tonybarber wrote:Agree…interesting articles. Not sure about our 'naivety' ? At present I see the Muslim community as indicated by the Grans Mufti's response as naive, at best. I don't remember any movement in the 70s or 80s where heads were chopped off. Sure I understand the action against the Vietnam war and communism. But I sense this is different. We can discuss the causes, the blame but what is the solution ?
Well naivety is my judgement to make, and, no offence, but your post only reinforces it.
The barbarity is a moot point, understanding the appeal of a foreign group is the focus; why some Western youth subscribe to a different value system than what they were raised in.
Far as I can see the underlying dynamics are the same across the board.
Rabbits68 wrote:Whilst I hear what your saying, I think it's a massive call to compare a young male/female rebelling in their youth (very normal), to a youth joining the ranks of ISIS & all that it encompasses. Yes any child can be moulded into pretty much anything an adult could conceive, but that's a big difference between a normal young person rebelling IMO. Clearly these youngsters that are becoming entwined with ISIS are being fed bullshit, not healthy parenting....
Doesn't matter what they're being 'fed'... again, that's a moot point. At issue is the fact they're fairly normal kids, they're not sociopaths or whatever else you may think of them. They're disillusioned with Western society and while in the throes of youthful enthusiasm take on board a belief system they see as more virtuous.
Yeah, it's a bit more rebellious then stealing a hip flask of JD and shaving a swear word in your hair but the psychology that underlies it just isn't that unusual - at least I don't think so.
stunet wrote:
Rabbits68 wrote:Whilst I hear what your saying, I think it's a massive call to compare a young male/female rebelling in their youth (very normal), to a youth joining the ranks of ISIS & all that it encompasses. Yes any child can be moulded into pretty much anything an adult could conceive, but that's a big difference between a normal young person rebelling IMO. Clearly these youngsters that are becoming entwined with ISIS are being fed bullshit, not healthy parenting....
Doesn't matter what they're being 'fed'... again, that's a moot point. At issue is the fact they're fairly normal kids, they're not sociopaths or whatever else you may think of them. They're disillusioned with Western society and while in the throes of youthful enthusiasm take on board a belief system they see as more virtuous.
Yeah, it's a bit more rebellious then stealing a hip flask of JD and shaving a swear word in your hair but the psychology that underlies it just isn't that unusual - at least I don't think so.
A 15yr old child blowing themselves up in a crowded venue with the intent of causing mass fatalities/casualties is "a bit more rebellious" alright. I agree, it's not about the child being at fault, but to suggest that the what/why their being fed isn't the issue, is quite bizarre IMO. Isn't that what this whole thread is trying to figure out? I suppose what I'm saying is that your definition of "being a rebellious youth" is very different to mine. If the deliberate intent of your child "being a bit rebellious" is to kill other people then that's where the definition of "a rebellious youth" is no longer appropriate. It's not the normal behavior of a healthy young teenager. It's the behavior of a child that has been totally screwed up psychologically IMO....
Rabbits68 wrote:A 15yr old child blowing themselves up in a crowded venue with the intent of causing mass fatalities/casualties is "a bit more rebellious" alright. I agree, it's not about the child being at fault, but to suggest that the what/why their being fed isn't the issue, is quite bizarre IMO. Isn't that what this whole thread is trying to figure out? I suppose what I'm saying is that your definition of "being a rebellious youth" is very different to mine. If the deliberate intent of your child "being a bit rebellious" is to kill other people then that's where the definition of "a rebellious youth" is no longer appropriate. It's not the normal behavior of a healthy young teenager. It's the behavior of a child that has been totally screwed up psychologically IMO....
What they're being told is an issue...it just wasn't what I was talking about when I made the original analogy.
As for what the thread is about...well, isn't it finding solutions? Not sure why you'd try and find out what they've been fed. Just look and read, it's two mouse clicks away from you right now.
Understanding why they'd latch onto that literature is the key. Why they reject this and align with that - if only for a short time.
Treating the thought process as something wholly alien helps no-one.
Stu.... "Western youth", "Eastern youth".. It's a red herring... Weren't of the paris attackers close to 30yo? Some argue that the sydney siege attacker was an islamic terrorist... How old was he?
The main issue why these people have no problem blowing themselves up is their "faith"... Hardline christian believers have no fear of death either... Saw that with the IRA... Ok they didn't kamikaze themselves, but when cornered they went down swinging with no fear of taking a bullet...
So I know what you are trying to say.. But comparing teenage angst over not getting an ipad to having "elders"stir your heart over the ancient lands controlled by western oil interests, bloodlines being wiped out by Maliki, etc etc etc is quite a different thing.....
Maliki and those who put him in power have a lot to fuckn answer for....
Shit...do people even read posts? Of course others besides Westerners were involved. I just WASNT TALKING ABOUT THAT.
And sorry, if you dont think youthful rebellion plays into this then I'll put you in the Axel Rose category of rebel.
Bahahahha.... Pretty funny, stu..... But no, i didn't watch channel 9's "a world on edge - inside the mind of a jihadist"..... Why? Coz it's full o' shit..... lol
Anyhoooooo, western kids "youthful rebellion" is against "the norm", against the "oldies", the "establishment"....Elvis, long hair, Punk rock, rap etc etc..... Whereas the kids hooked on ISIS are following the older ones, following the establishment created by radical senior clerics.... saw it with Bin Laden, saw it with Bashhir in indo.... You may consider it "rebellion" in a "western sense".. But they are in fact conforming, not rebelling..... When I see the muslim youth going against "the oldies", I'll consider it "youthful rebellion".....
ps - I'm more of a David lee Roth guy, myself..... lol ;)
As you wish:
Rebel, rebel, your hair is a mess
and so is this direction we're heading, yeah?
I'm quoting myself here, but I did chuck this out there a page or so back.
"As for the young Aussie wannabes here? If they want to macho-up, and get gangster and shit, get the youth involved in the boy scouts or bike gangs or something. Same same, but without the ice.
Just say NO to ISIS!
As for the fundamental religion angle for these youngsters? Out of all the 'isms', past and present, consumer capitalism has really leached the meaning out of our collective lives. When you're a kid and you haven't chucked in the towel (or if you prefer 'grown up'), then fundamental black n white, my way or the highway, thinking and living can be a quite attractive blueprint. Hardcore. Talking the talk and walking the walk. Tie it in with masculinity and persecution issues, and you get western useful idiots going all the way with Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi Kool J."
It's hip to be square, perhaps? I'm not gonna chuck up a fucken photo of Huey fucken Lewis.
From the Atran posted by the Bassoon earlier:
"But the popular notion of a “clash of civilizations” between Islam and the West is woefully misleading. Violent extremism represents not the resurgence of traditional cultures, but their collapse, as young people unmoored from millennial traditions flail about in search of a social identity that gives personal significance and glory. This is the dark side of globalization. They radicalize to find a firm identity in a flattened world: where vertical lines of communication between the generations are replaced by horizontal peer-to-peer attachments that can span the globe."
Actually, I've just had a thought. This will burley up the waters. With reference to the Che shirts and the 60s/70s, anyone seen the film The Battle of Algiers (1966)?
Yeah, nah.
It's a great bit of cinema. So good that the IRA, Black Panthers, Baader Meinhof and others used it as a manual. The Seppo Brass also used it in 2003 to work out what the fuck was going wrong in Iraq.
https://www.criterion.com/current/posts/2558-sight-sound-poll-2012-the-b...
You can see the whole thing on Youtube.
Don't show the kids!
This article goes some way to explaining the ability of ISIS to consolidate its gains in late 2014. The somewhat unholy alliance between religious fanatics and experienced members of Saddam's regime.
These guys aren't just gunfighters, they represent the organizational and philosophical architects of a totalitarian state. What remains unknown is how the fundamental tension between the religious figureheads and the practical bureaucrats will play out in the future. Former regime guys are less concerned with global jihad and the mythology of Dabiq, and more with re-establishing their previous positions.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/04/21/what-saddam-gave-isis.html
stunet wrote:
Rabbits68 wrote:A 15yr old child blowing themselves up in a crowded venue with the intent of causing mass fatalities/casualties is "a bit more rebellious" alright. I agree, it's not about the child being at fault, but to suggest that the what/why their being fed isn't the issue, is quite bizarre IMO. Isn't that what this whole thread is trying to figure out? I suppose what I'm saying is that your definition of "being a rebellious youth" is very different to mine. If the deliberate intent of your child "being a bit rebellious" is to kill other people then that's where the definition of "a rebellious youth" is no longer appropriate. It's not the normal behavior of a healthy young teenager. It's the behavior of a child that has been totally screwed up psychologically IMO....
What they're being told is an issue...it just wasn't what I was talking about when I made the original analogy.
As for what the thread is about...well, isn't it finding solutions? Not sure why you'd try and find out what they've been fed. Just look and read, it's two mouse clicks away from you right now.
Understanding why they'd latch onto that literature is the key. Why they reject this and align with that - if only for a short time.
Treating the thought process as something wholly alien helps no-one.
I agree that interpreting peoples posts can be difficult at times, as you yourself just discovered only a few clicks away :)
A long lasting solution (if its indeed possible) is going to require taking into account the whole, not just a few selective parts IMO.
stunet wrote:As you wish:
Cmon mate..... You can do better than that......
it's not like we all didn't see it coming
http://www.theonion.com/multiblogpost/this-war-will-destabilize-the-enti...
ya blow people up, ya tend to piss people off, it's not rocket science,
Einstein's theory of madness...doing the same rhing and expecting a different result
the US and west have fucked this up royally
UK security guy the other day said in 2004 they had about 4000 security concerns on their list, ten years on it's ten times that, no country can physically or socially afford to have 40 000 people under constant surveillance.
time for some new tactics people
"It's hip to be square, perhaps? I'm not gonna chuck up a fucken photo of Huey fucken Lewis"
Well...... Anyone quoting Huey Lewis should have a hard long fucking look at themselves..... Because now you've gone and made me DO THIS!!!!!!!!!
The article by Atran is a must read (see link above). There are still many questions still not answered but it certainly goes a long way. One key point was the level of education - primary school level. I noted that most of the refugees from Syria, only about 17% had an education. This is a key source of problems for migration and iteration. I still suggest that the Muslim community need to be more proactive. This is also stated in the article - 'Muslim parents are reluctant to talk about the failings of foreign policy and ISIS, whereas their children often want desperately to understand.'
The author suggests migration and integration - there are many Arab states ruling themselves. Can they sort this out themselves.
@sheepdog, you've crossed the line with that last post.
This is your first and last warning, cease and desist with that shit.
@Sheepdog
"Their early work was a little too new wave for my tastes, but when Sports came out in '83, I think they really came into their own, commercially and artistically. The whole album has a clear, crisp sound, and a new sheen of consummate professionalism that really gives the songs a big boost. He's been compared to Elvis Costello, but I think Huey has a far more bitter, cynical sense of humor...
In '87, Huey released this, Fore, their most accomplished album. I think their undisputed masterpiece is "Hip to be Square", a song so catchy, most people probably don't listen to the lyrics. But they should, because it's not just about the pleasures of conformity, and the importance of trends, it's also a personal statement about the band itself."
Google that, buddy
If only we hadn't invaded Iraq....too bad that was preceded by 9/11.
If only we'd kept out of Iraq in the first place...yeah too bad the Iraqis destroyed the USS stark in 87 as the septics were defending Kuwaiti oil tankers through flag transfer arrangements.
Make up as many excuses as you want ....disenfranchised youth...gold, socioeconomic disadvantage ....hilarious, rascism...stop it , please.
Won't anyone suggest that we are dealing with , as many, many people before myself have suggested, a culture of people with low self esteem coupled with zero humility ?
A culture that thrives and centres it's sociology around a victimisation that has been brewing for hundreds of years.
A culture that is constantly told they are Gods chosen people , yet everywhere they look on modern media they see the Western world " getting their's" on music videos, movies , freaking everywhere...yet they're not getting their's.
A culture that's told women are subservient , yet they come to Australia and the women parade themselves, barely covered, and our heroes have to play by the rules of a society they have been raised to believe they are better than and above.
It's a tasty little juxtaposing of what they're told versus the stark reality..ie they are no one special.
That's why there is problems with Lebanese Muslims previous to this.
It's not Howard or Abbott.
It's not us.
It's them.
And if you don't accept that, then you're an apologist.
Blowin wrote:... a culture of people with low self esteem coupled with zero humility ?
A culture that thrives and centres it's sociology around a victimisation that has been brewing for hundreds of years.
A culture that is constantly told they are Gods chosen people ...
This sounds familiar, you could easily be talking about another culture, funnily enough from the same general area.
Curious no?
Deepest Sympathies to the French , Have Relies in Paris.....Any organisations that support violence and death here should be shut down. locked up or booted out.