What's what?

"The LNP really have got nothing. We're just gonna get weeks and weeks of refugee vilification and scare-mongering from this rabble?"

Got it in one TT. It's been a feature of their playbook for quite a while now, especially since most every other policy and ideology they have has been thoroughly discredited.

talkingturkey wrote:

Dirty Rotten Imbeciles! Speaking of which, how's old Mr Potato Head, Peter Dutton today? FFS.

https://ausvotes2016.com.au/2016/05/18/peter-dutton-throws-a-dead-cat/

The LNP really have got nothing. We're just gonna get weeks and weeks of refugee vilification and scare-mongering from this rabble? Really?

Dutton used to be a copper, apparently. Erm, wouldn't have guessed. Wonder what type he was. I wonder if he was in the union?

basically the same argument peddled here by a regular contributor ... it must be reassuring to know you are in lock step with Dutton ah {insert name}

Know fear, no fear we have democracy....."The elected Mayor of Marrickville was removed after blocking Westconnex, and replaced with an unelected high level Westconnex official."

https://medium.com/@bitcloud/from-baird-to-worse-b415189c320a#.j285mryal

floyd wrote:

talkingturkey wrote:

Dirty Rotten Imbeciles! Speaking of which, how's old Mr Potato Head, Peter Dutton today? FFS.

https://ausvotes2016.com.au/2016/05/18/peter-dutton-throws-a-dead-cat/

The LNP really have got nothing. We're just gonna get weeks and weeks of refugee vilification and scare-mongering from this rabble? Really?

Dutton used to be a copper, apparently. Erm, wouldn't have guessed. Wonder what type he was. I wonder if he was in the union?

basically the same argument peddled here by a regular contributor ... it must be reassuring to know you are in lock step with Dutton ah {insert name}

"”For many people they won’t be numerate or literate in their own language let alone English ... these people would be taking Australian jobs and there is no question about that,” Mr Dutton told Sky News last night"

Taking Australian jobs?????? But they are illiterate, Mr Dutton..... Are you saying Australian employers are going to take on illiterate refugees over those that can fill in an application form, Mr Dutton?

But by some people's logic, Australia is still great so we shouldn't trouble ourselves with occurrences like this.

Sheepdog wrote:

Taking Australian jobs?????? But they are illiterate, Mr Dutton..... Are you saying Australian employers are going to take on illiterate refugees over those that can fill in an application form, Mr Dutton?

floyd wrote:

talkingturkey wrote:

Dirty Rotten Imbeciles! Speaking of which, how's old Mr Potato Head, Peter Dutton today? FFS.

https://ausvotes2016.com.au/2016/05/18/peter-dutton-throws-a-dead-cat/

The LNP really have got nothing. We're just gonna get weeks and weeks of refugee vilification and scare-mongering from this rabble? Really?

Dutton used to be a copper, apparently. Erm, wouldn't have guessed. Wonder what type he was. I wonder if he was in the union?

basically the same argument peddled here by a regular contributor ... it must be reassuring to know you are in lock step with Dutton ah {insert name}

Im sure your talking about me.

But sorry your wrong its not at all the same argument i have, i think his statement makes no sense at all and was a weird thing to say.

Illiterate refugees will not be taking anyone's jobs, because it would be extremely hard for them to get jobs.

It's a pity politicians actually say silly things like this because the related issues are actually really important and should be talked about and not just ignored.

It's actually really irresponsible thing to say because it fuels negative feelings about refugees, refugees in themselves are not the problem, the problem is in how some try to enter Australia because like it or not its not realistic to allow people to enter Australia in an uncontrolled manner in uncontrolled numbers and doing so would open up a pandoras box of all kinds of issues.

FFS. That dead cat stinks.

https://ausvotes2016.com.au/2016/05/18/peter-dutton-throws-a-dead-cat/

Check the link above.

Strategy, all stinkin' strategy.

New conservative ABC boss Michelle Guthrie axes ABC fact check;

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/federal-election-2016/telling-por...

Oh this is just getting hilarious, no wonder the Libs wanted media silence on border issues, Barnaby Joyce and Peter dutton have been running drugs hahaha......http://www.smh.com.au/national/customs-officials-involved-in-drug-and-to...

As The Age asks tonight who built the Snowy Mountain Hydro Scheme Peter Dutton?

http://www.theage.com.au/federal-politics/federal-election-2016-opinion/...

Sheepdog wrote:

New conservative ABC boss Michelle Guthrie axes ABC fact check;

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/federal-election-2016/telling-por...

These guys are unbelievable - they really do have no intention of providing honest and transparent government.
No intention whatsoever.
How fucking obvious does the electorate need it to be?

Paste, Link, Copy crap, Link Paste, Copy Link, Crap Paste Talk Crap, Paste, Link, Copy crap, Link Paste, Copy Link, Crap Paste Talk Crap,Paste, Link, Copy crap, Link Paste, Copy Link, Crap Paste Talk Crap,Paste, Link, Copy crap, Link Paste, Copy Link, Crap Paste Talk Crap, I KNOW Everything,Paste, Link, Copy crap, Link Paste, Copy Link, Crap Paste Talk Crap,Paste, Link, Copy crap, Link Paste, Copy Link, Crap Paste Talk Crap, I'm Full Of Shit,Paste, Link, Copy crap, Link Paste, Copy Link, Crap Paste Talk Crap,Paste, Link, Copy crap, Link Paste, Copy Link, Crap Paste Talk Crap, I'm A Politician,Paste, Link, Copy crap, Link Paste, Copy Link, Crap Paste Talk Crap,Paste, Link, Copy crap, Link Paste, Copy Link, Crap Paste Talk Crap,Paste, Link, Copy crap, Link Paste, Copy Link, Crap Paste Talk Crap, WANK ME Off Please,Paste, Link, Copy crap, Link Paste, Copy Link, Crap Paste Talk Crap,Paste, Link, Copy crap, Link Paste, Copy Link, Crap Paste Talk Crap,Paste, Link, Copy crap, Link Paste, Copy Link, Crap Paste Talk Crap, Get any waves todayPaste, Link, Copy crap, Link Paste, Copy Link, Crap Paste Talk Crap,Paste, Link, Copy crap, Link Paste, Copy Link, Crap Paste Talk Crap,Paste, Link, Copy crap, Link Paste, Copy Link, Crap Paste Talk Crap,

Fuck this thread off please.

Says the illiterate economic refugee...or so Dutts told me. Anyways, you vote, mon? Here in Australia I mean?

Whatever. Enjoy this cut n paster, waster. Yew!

wellymon wrote:

Paste, Link, Copy crap, Link Paste, Copy Link, Crap Paste Talk Crap, Paste, Link, Copy crap, Link Paste, Copy Link, Crap Paste Talk Crap,Paste, Link, Copy crap, Link Paste, Copy Link, Crap Paste Talk Crap,Paste, Link, Copy crap, Link Paste, Copy Link, Crap Paste Talk Crap, I KNOW Everything,Paste, Link, Copy crap, Link Paste, Copy Link, Crap Paste Talk Crap,Paste, Link, Copy crap, Link Paste, Copy Link, Crap Paste Talk Crap, I'm Full Of Shit,Paste, Link, Copy crap, Link Paste, Copy Link, Crap Paste Talk Crap,Paste, Link, Copy crap, Link Paste, Copy Link, Crap Paste Talk Crap, I'm A Politician,Paste, Link, Copy crap, Link Paste, Copy Link, Crap Paste Talk Crap,Paste, Link, Copy crap, Link Paste, Copy Link, Crap Paste Talk Crap,Paste, Link, Copy crap, Link Paste, Copy Link, Crap Paste Talk Crap, WANK ME Off Please,Paste, Link, Copy crap, Link Paste, Copy Link, Crap Paste Talk Crap,Paste, Link, Copy crap, Link Paste, Copy Link, Crap Paste Talk Crap,Paste, Link, Copy crap, Link Paste, Copy Link, Crap Paste Talk Crap, Get any waves todayPaste, Link, Copy crap, Link Paste, Copy Link, Crap Paste Talk Crap,Paste, Link, Copy crap, Link Paste, Copy Link, Crap Paste Talk Crap,Paste, Link, Copy crap, Link Paste, Copy Link, Crap Paste Talk Crap,

Fuck this thread off please.

Summed up perfectly, 16 pages of whinging about anything and everything and off course everyone knows better no matter the issue.

yeah, shut Swellnet forums down and especially the ABC, all we need is FoxNews in a "liberal" democracy!

"16 pages of whinging about anything and everything and of course everyone knows better no matter the issue", lol and here you are whinging about whinging

Yeah why would you want to care about how your country is being run?

Wellymon and Indo.... This forum section is called politico...... If you don't like it, then fuck off to another section... Simple, really...

Visual information is often easier to digest than long winded discussion, here's a video doing the rounds that illustrates the basics of the liberal economic model

https://www.facebook.com/farooq.shah.202/videos/991751237569873/

talkingturkey wrote:

talkingturkey wrote:

wellymon wrote:

theween wrote:

Dear Swellnet

Please get this pathetic, crude drivel off your website (reminder that the intelligent, the young and the fairer sex sometimes visit).

x100 theween.
Here here, what absolute crap..........

Whoah, meta!

Whoah, meta!

Whoah, META!

Why do people that don't run their own business, have no further education qualifications, and earn less than 80k a year vote for the LNP?

AndyM wrote:

The usual reasons

- they get thrown a few crumbs (whilst getting totally shafted)
- the party panders to their prejudices such as immigration or same sex marriage (whilst getting totally shafted)
- their parents voted that way
- they lack critical reading/literacy skills (no wonder the LNP don't want the great unwashed going to higher education)
- they're just plain dumb or ignorant (the old "oh who gives a fuck about politics, they're all shit")

I plump for sado-masochism as well. Kinky.

"Why do people that don't run their own business, have no further education qualifications, and earn less than 80k a year vote for the LNP?"

STRAYYYYAAA!!!!!! That's why..... Fuckn illegals...... Comn here with their exploding humus, chanting to that fucking god of theirs..... Bloody lefty labor green poofs wanting to make me eat halal roast pork..... No way maaaaaaaate.......

Sheepdog wrote:

"Why do people that don't run their own business, have no further education qualifications, and earn less than 80k a year vote for the LNP?"

STRAYYYYAAA!!!!!! That's why..... Fuckn illegals...... Comn here with their exploding humus, chanting to that fucking god of theirs..... Bloody lefty labor green poofs wanting to make me eat halal roast pork..... No way maaaaaaaate.......

maaaaaate, ya forgot those puss sucking unions and how they ruin the economy, I work in pit 24/7 and get black lung after 20 years but I want the flexibility to negotiate my own wages and conditions with BHP, fuck those unions what good have they done for me? so I'm backing Turnbull, he is working for jobs n growth n for me ....... and he's keeping those boat people economic refugee dodgy types away, ....vote one turnbull ....

I just wish some liberal voters would get involved in the thread so there was actually some discussion and substance and debate.

Personally ive never voted Liberal as im a blue collar worker and although i feel well off, compared to most i don't earn that much and im sure the liberal government are not going to try to do me any favors while labor are much more likely to do me favors $$$ wise.

That said in general i think liberal governments actually run the country better.

Policy wise im about 50/50 on each party.

Yep, floyd......
But it's more than that..... I'm a bit vague and under the weather at the mo, so I'm struggling to put my thoughts into laymans terms..... But I'll try lol..
You know "pyramid schemes", right?... Or do you remember Amway? Well that's what Howard turned Australia into...... "Aspirational"...... Rudd continued it.... As has Abbott/Turnbull..... Pre 1996, Australia was a laid back "fair go" place.... We weren't too up in arms about "getting up to the next level".... Yes there was a small group of step ladder climbers, and good luck to them.... But most "Aussies" were pretty laid back, happy to have a home, some savings, a decent job, a good load of leisure time.... We were singing "treaty" by yothu yindi, not too concerned with other dramas in the world.....
But along came the neo cons, 9/11, slick marketing.... Australia went from "she'll be right mate" to "must have the plasma and look the part" in a matter of 1/2 a decade..... The step ladder society was formed... the pyramid...... You can point the finger at those below you..... Divide and conquer..... Dole bludgers, gays, single mums, muslims, now even "tax bludgers"..... Strength in numbers.......... BUT......... Don't point the finger at those above you ffs...... That's where YOU aspire to be........ The SUV, the 5th investment property,.... They are soooo much happier up there on the next level, right?
So...... Here we have the fucktard "everyday Australian family" (whatever the fuck that is) ..... They're pulling in say $140k between them....... Even though Labor represents their interests waaaaay better than liberal, they will aspirationally vote........ Jobs..... and Growth....... Brainwashed....... Voting Labor wont get them "there"........ Voting Lib makes them FEEL good..... Voting Lib subliminally makes them feel like they are on the next rung of the ladder........
I hope you know what I'm tryng to say, Floyd...... Cheers......

indo-dreaming wrote:

wellymon wrote:

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Fuck this thread off please.

Summed up perfectly, 16 pages of whinging about anything and everything and off course everyone knows better no matter the issue.

Must be farmers.

Sheepdog wrote:

Yep, floyd......
But it's more than that..... I'm a bit vague and under the weather at the mo, so I'm struggling to put my thoughts into laymans terms..... But I'll try lol..
You know "pyramid schemes", right?... Or do you remember Amway? Well that's what Howard turned Australia into...... "Aspirational"...... Rudd continued it.... As has Abbott/Turnbull..... Pre 1996, Australia was a laid back "fair go" place.... We weren't too up in arms about "getting up to the next level".... Yes there was a small group of step ladder climbers, and good luck to them.... But most "Aussies" were pretty laid back, happy to have a home, some savings, a decent job, a good load of leisure time.... We were singing "treaty" by yothu yindi, not too concerned with other dramas in the world.....
But along came the neo cons, 9/11, slick marketing.... Australia went from "she'll be right mate" to "must have the plasma and look the part" in a matter of 1/2 a decade..... The step ladder society was formed... the pyramid...... You can point the finger at those below you..... Divide and conquer..... Dole bludgers, gays, single mums, muslims, now even "tax bludgers"..... Strength in numbers.......... BUT......... Don't point the finger at those above you ffs...... That's where YOU aspire to be........ The SUV, the 5th investment property,.... They are soooo much happier up there on the next level, right?
So...... Here we have the fucktard "everyday Australian family" (whatever the fuck that is) ..... They're pulling in say $140k between them....... Even though Labor represents their interests waaaaay better than liberal, they will aspirationally vote........ Jobs..... and Growth....... Brainwashed....... Voting Labor wont get them "there"........ Voting Lib makes them FEEL good..... Voting Lib subliminally makes them feel like they are on the next rung of the ladder........
I hope you know what I'm tryng to say, Floyd...... Cheers......

Brilliant! on my more cynical days this could sum up what I see happening, but couldn't quite put my finger on it to put it in words.

I still can't get my head around how some people want to vote Liberal when it's clear that the party doesn't have their interests at heart.... but then again if thats what you aspire to, then it makes a bit more sense

"Rationality is over-rated sometimes when it comes to politics, methinks."

No shit, Sherlock. If you only consume Corporate Media 'news', no wonder a chunk of the population thinks an election is a cross between Masterchef (who can grow the best and biggest pie) and The Block (buy n sell n $$$$$).

Chuck in some sexy-time X factor/personality politics fluff and wooooohoooo! Next stop? 'American Idol'? Or some 'Eurovision'?

Australia, you're fired!

TT, that was a really good post. Summed it up well for us dummies.

Well, depends on the qualifications. Old school degrees from proper old school universities. Definitely NOT.

Dodgy MBAs and the like from private providers and ex-institutes of technology? Maybe.

Actually, MBAs and other business and 'modern' economic bullshit qualifications from any uni these days are where you'll find young libs a-festering.

AND DON'T GET ME STARTED ON LAW STUDENTS ESPECIALLY ECONOMICS/LAW!

And the way universities are being increasingly corporatised, expect more of 'em. Much to society's detriment.

Still their reasoning is shot. Look where neo-liberal economics has got us all. Well, except for the top percentile of rich cunts. Please sir, can I have some more? Fucken right-whingers!

Shatner'sBassoon wrote:

indo-dreaming wrote:

I just wish some liberal voters would get involved in the thread so there was actually some discussion and substance and debate.

Personally ive never voted Liberal as im a blue collar worker and although i feel well off, compared to most i don't earn that much and im sure the liberal government are not going to try to do me any favors while labor are much more likely to do me favors $$$ wise.

That said in general i think liberal governments actually run the country better.

Policy wise im about 50/50 on each party.

Interesting observations, ID. The main one that sticks out for me is "That said in general i think liberal governments actually run the country better."

It begs the question, why and how?

Secondly, what policies appeal from either side? This ain't some kind of 'gotcha' thing, I am generally interested.

Like the forums here, I don't hear much directly from LNP supporters about why they are supporters that isn't related to the jokey reasons put forward by Turkey & Sheepster & Andy M.

And definitely not at my place of employment. It's an LNP-free zone. Though statistically they must exist. There might even be some substance of sorts if they would come out the closet. Up to the individual of course.

Rationality is over-rated sometimes when it comes to politics, methinks.

I don't have time to get into detail and its normally when i see it that i notice it anyway.

But i think basically Liberal governments actually try to do what is best for the country especially from a financial/economy perspective, the problem is they often don't think about the little guy.

While Labor don't always do what's necessarily best for the country but spend to much time trying to please everyone especially minority groups.

Its like when you young and your parents make decisions for you and generally have their best interest for you, at the time you often didn't like it or understand it but in hindsight now you know it was the right thing, Liberals are kind of like this.

Labor are more like your uncle or auntie they are still mature and can be wise, but they also spend a lot of their time spoiling you and keeping themselves the fav uncle or auntie.

The Greens well they are like your older sister who's in her first year of uni and thinks she knows it all but really has no life experience and knows jack shit.

Im probably the only person in Australia that thinks this, but end of the day i think our two party system works pretty good, we have a Liberal government for a few years then a Labor for a few years, each push a little left and a little right and but not to far in either direction and after all i said and done we end up in the middle and are still one of the luckiest country on earth, safe, gap between rich and poor nothing like other country's, good welfare system, good medical system, health stable economy, still have lots of green space etc

I guess we all like to whinge though about governments we are all guilty of it.

BTW. I also don't know many Liberal voters, i do always find it strange when they get in because ive only ever met a few.

got it in one sheepy, all roads lead back to howard ....... the smiling assassin, the cunning sewer rat conservative life-long politician sucking at the public teat who presented himself as the ordinary bloke who spoke of aspiration while pushing the knife deeper into the workers back, could have been a snake charmer on the continent, could have been many things but none of them good, good ole honest john, more deadly than trump more dangerous than abbott, core and non core promises, with truth overboard dog whistles, patricks waterside dispute, weapons of mass destruction lies, not saying sorry John, work choices, giver of tax routs to the rich, 50% CST discounts, buyer of votes .......

talkingturkey wrote:

"Rationality is over-rated sometimes when it comes to politics, methinks."

No shit, Sherlock. If you only consume Corporate Media 'news', no wonder a chunk of the population thinks an election is a cross between Masterchef (who can grow the best and biggest pie) and The Block (buy n sell n $$$$$).

Chuck in some sexy-time X factor/personality politics fluff and wooooohoooo! Next stop? 'American Idol'? Or some 'Eurovision'?

Australia, you're fired!

It's really quite something to talk in depth with people who get their entire world view from commercial television

indo-dreaming wrote:

Shatner'sBassoon wrote:

indo-dreaming wrote:

I just wish some liberal voters would get involved in the thread so there was actually some discussion and substance and debate.

Personally ive never voted Liberal as im a blue collar worker and although i feel well off, compared to most i don't earn that much and im sure the liberal government are not going to try to do me any favors while labor are much more likely to do me favors $$$ wise.

That said in general i think liberal governments actually run the country better.

Policy wise im about 50/50 on each party.

Interesting observations, ID. The main one that sticks out for me is "That said in general i think liberal governments actually run the country better."

It begs the question, why and how?

Secondly, what policies appeal from either side? This ain't some kind of 'gotcha' thing, I am generally interested.

Like the forums here, I don't hear much directly from LNP supporters about why they are supporters that isn't related to the jokey reasons put forward by Turkey & Sheepster & Andy M.

And definitely not at my place of employment. It's an LNP-free zone. Though statistically they must exist. There might even be some substance of sorts if they would come out the closet. Up to the individual of course.

Rationality is over-rated sometimes when it comes to politics, methinks.

I don't have time to get into detail and its normally when i see it that i notice it anyway.

But i think basically Liberal governments actually try to do what is best for the country especially from a financial/economy perspective, the problem is they often don't think about the little guy.

While Labor don't always do what's necessarily best for the country but spend to much time trying to please everyone especially minority groups.

Its like when you young and your parents make decisions for you and generally have their best interest for you, at the time you often didn't like it or understand it but in hindsight now you know it was the right thing, Liberals are kind of like this.

Labor are more like your uncle or auntie they are still mature and can be wise, but they also spend a lot of their time spoiling you and keeping themselves the fav uncle or auntie.

The Greens well they are like your older sister who's in her first year of uni and thinks she knows it all but really has no life experience and knows jack shit.

Im probably the only person in Australia that thinks this, but end of the day i think our two party system works pretty good, we have a Liberal government for a few years then a Labor for a few years, each push a little left and a little right and but not to far in either direction and after all i said and done we end up in the middle and are still one of the luckiest country on earth, safe, gap between rich and poor nothing like other country's, good welfare system, good medical system, health stable economy, still have lots of green space etc

I guess we all like to whinge though about governments we are all guilty of it.

BTW. I also don't know many Liberal voters, i do always find it strange when they get in because ive only ever met a few.

"good welfare system, good medical system, still have lots of green space etc'

Indo I hate to break it to you but the LNP wants to take a fucking wrecking ball to these institutions that you hold dear. Corporations want your money and the LNP is happy to help them.

Can't help myself.

Indo says "But i think basically Liberal governments actually try to do what is best for the country especially from a financial/economy perspective"

Yeah, for the benefit of big business!

Indo says "While Labor don't always do what's necessarily best for the country but spend to much time trying to please everyone especially minority groups."

I'm not a fan of Labor but can you see a contradiction in what you've said here? Trying to keep people happy but not doing the right thing by the country?
I think you and I may have different definitions of what a country is...

And the Greens are the only ones looking beyond the end of their nose.

Independents, Minor Parties those who are there to represent their electorate and not hamstrung by the agenda of the major parties. Farmers need to wake up to ditching the Nationals, Unionist need to ditch Labor and business people who aren't tied up with merchant bankers and large multi national corporations must ditch the Libs. Australians need politicians who represent them not the interests of the IPA and other self centred focus groups.

Wharfjunkie wrote:

Independents, Minor Parties those who are there to represent their electorate and not hamstrung by the agenda of the major parties. Farmers need to wake up to ditching the Nationals, Unionist need to ditch Labor and business people who aren't tied up with merchant bankers and large multi national corporations must ditch the Libs. Australians need politicians who represent them not the interests of the IPA and other self centred focus groups.

+1

I happen to agree with you Indo.

Ha, the greens are as corrupt as the labor and liberal parties. Fuck them all, right wing pricks, who pays someone $3.75 an hour?....http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/federal-election-2016/election-20...

So he's a liar and a scab?? Dickhead.
Even with paying $150/week cash, and say rent is worth $150/week and food $100/week, that's a long way short of minimum wage. What a goose.

AndyM wrote:

So he's a liar and a scab?? Dickhead.
Even with paying $150/week cash, and say rent is worth $150/week and food $100/week, that's a long way short of minimum wage. What a goose.

$400/25hrs= $16 an hour hardly worth it but doesn't look like he broke any rules.
$450/25hrs=$18 after tax.

Fucken experts on here..haha bash the commercial media..get sucked into the corporate/ union narrative..this is hilarious..funniest shit i've read on here for a long time. Even beats uplift mcfluffys rants or southeys demise..keep it up lads..woohoo

Wharfjunkie wrote:

AndyM wrote:

So he's a liar and a scab?? Dickhead.
Even with paying $150/week cash, and say rent is worth $150/week and food $100/week, that's a long way short of minimum wage. What a goose.

$400/25hrs= $16 an hour hardly worth it but doesn't look like he broke any rules.
$450/25hrs=$18 after tax.

The add doesn't say anything about 25 hours, in fact it goes on to say that couples are welcome but the $150 a week stays the same. Haha paying two people to work for a week for 150 bucks plus board. Check out the guys property portfolio, you reckon he's doing it tough ? He's happy to accept a significant wage and a significant pension and other perks from the taxpayer, blab on about penalty rates and he advertises to pay people $3.75 an hour.

Are you greens voter barley? Do you use $3.75 labour to pick your beans?

http://www.backpackerjobboard.com.au/job/2339/live-in-au-pair-at-lucy-qu...

Thanks for your informed input Barley!