What's what?
Shatner'sBassoon wrote:talkingturkey wrote:Gotta love the 'Dirty Digger'. A great Australian. Or is that Seppo? Whatever, a great, great global citizen. He will be sorely missed when he dies. Mourned even.
Shatner'sBassoon wrote:Australia, you've been warned
Tax bludger.
happyasS wrote:the "theaim" article does not reference which individual stories were badmouthing him. was is it the Australian and the herald sun? was it multiple articles or just those two.....other papers too?
cant stand when change.org doesn't make it exactly clear what i am protesting about. very happy to sign on the basis of bullying. but not happy to sign on the basis that the guy is on suicide watch as titled in the change petition. two separate things to me.
I supplied an Andrew Bolt link earlier..... Open thou eyes and ye shall find, happy...... That's if you actually want to find.......
Here you go , happy, seeings it's that hard for you to google "duncan storrar bullied"..... :) This will get you pointed in the right direction.......
http://junkee.com/abc-radios-jon-faine-went-hard-at-the-herald-suns-fron...
signed.
putting aside the blame game for the moment; here is the reality.....
http://junkee.com/what-the-duncan-storrar-controversy-teaches-us-about-a...
I do wonder if any stories were actually false accusations. he'd have a claim under law. how much lawyer does 60k buy you these days? enough for a 200k settlement perhaps?
There's a commenter on the ABC news site that is using the forums to tell a real modern-day horror story. Cannily enough, their moniker is 'V'.
Wanna feel some fear? Some real fear?
"Corruption is not some sort of disease that has infected capitalism, it is a direct by-product of the evolution of the capitalist system. There is no way in which capitalism could have been allowed to develop without producing increasing levels of corruption because the "seeds of corruption" are embedded in the "DNA" of the system.
We can say that this is an inevitable consequence of capitalist development because it was predicted nearly 150 years ago by a German moral philosopher by the name of Karl Marx. And Marx did not just predict the current malaise, he explained exactly why such an outcome was inevitable.
Capitalism first appeared in the late 16th Century, so it has been around for 500 years. It has never even come close to being a "free market" system, for one simple reason: there is no such thing as a "free market".
What we have learned over the past 150 years or so is that capitalism cannot remain in an acceptably stable condition without constant government intervention to correct its divergent tendencies. As soon as government controls ("red tape") are relaxed, the market immediately starts to "clot" as wealth is concentrated and business entities merge into fewer and fewer larger and larger corporations who exercise monopoly power. If allowed to continue as it was in the second half of the nineteenth century, the 1920's and the 1970's to the present, there can only be one result and that is cataclysmic depression.
The last time we allowed things to get that bad the resulting depression triggered a war that claimed the lives of over 180 million people and destroyed the productive infrastructure of two continents.
When are people going to get it through their skulls that there is no ideal state of capitalism in which everything works according to the neo-liberal fairy tales? There never has been and there never will be."
"How many recessions of a comparable size occurred prior to say 1900, when there was almost no regulation?"
Well, lets go through a few. The first major shock to the capitalist system occurred while capitalism was still quite young. It was precipitated by a fascinating historical event known as the "Dutch Tulip Mania Bubble" (or "Tulipomania" for short). The bubble grew from 1634 to 1637 before collapsing and ruining the economies of most western European countries. The next major shock came when the "South Sea Bubble" (1716-1720) and the "Mississippi Bubble" (1716-1720) burst simultaneously, plunging most western countries into deep recession. Next cab off the rank was the recession caused by the collapse of the "British Railway Mania Bubble" of the 1840's. And then we have the doozy: the Great Depression of the 1890's, which was responsible for the deaths of millions of people world wide and was a direct contributing factor to the outbreak of WW1.
Since its emergence as the dominant mode of production, capitalism has behaved like a roller-coaster - boosted temporarily by scams that become speculative bubbles, before crashing disastrously, killing millions and condemning tens of millions more to crushing poverty. But things have gotten progressively worse since the 1850's, when capitalist expansion reached its physical limits. Since then, we have experienced the most disastrous 150 years in human history with ALL of the most destructive wars in history being fought in this period, the most widespread and persistent famine in human history (still getting worse) gripping Africa and much of Asia, the fastest species extinction rate in the history of life on earth, rapid and wasteful depletion of our non-renewable natural resources, the degradation of our most productive farmland and the pollution of our waterways, our oceans, our soil and our atmosphere.
When we have tried Keynesian methods to control the wild fluctuations of capitalism, it has made life more bearable and secure, especially for working people. But these times have been brief and, as soon as we start listening to the free-market-mouseketeers, things start getting progressively worse until we end up in another depression.
"Stop cronyism and let real capitalism have a chance."
That is a bit like saying "Stop Humanity and let real Apes have a chance".
I think that you are guilty of "Platonic formalism". There is no "ideal plane" on which cheery stall-holders with clean, white aprons, pattern baldness and pencils behind their ears compete honestly for the custom of an infinite number of infinitely well-informed consumers. There is no such thing as "pure" capitalism. What we see around us is what capitalism has evolved into, and what it was always going to evolve into.
We've been waiting for "pure" capitalism for well over 150 years now, ever since the natural limits of expansion were reached (the world was completely colonised). We have tolerated two cataclysmic depressions, two even more cataclysmic world wars, the rapid and wasteful depletion of irreplaceable natural resources, the pollution of our oceans, our waterways, our soil and the air that we breathe, the disruption of our climate, the longest and most devastating international famine in human history, the most extreme and rapid mass extinction event in the history of life and, since WW2, seventy years of continuous warfare.
It is not going to get better. There is nobody alive today whose grandparents had been born when capitalism last worked as a functional mode of production. There is only one way in which capitalism can develop, and that is by becoming progressively more monopolised and, as this happens, the civil rights for which our forebears fought and died will continue to be withdrawn as they interfere with the convenience and profitability of the mega-corporations.
To put it simply, the logical end of capitalist development - where capitalism is bound to end up if we persist with it - is called "fascism". We already know that fascism is the ultimate evil - we have seen it in action. So what does that make a system that leads inevitably to fascism?
"I assume you mean fascist Germany. Are you really arguing the economic system is what caused the Holocaust?"
Not the economic system itself - the failure of the economic system. The failure of capitalism in the early part of the 20th Century gave rise to the growth of fascism across the world. It was not limited to Germany. The first country to fall to fascism was Italy, then Spain.
Fascism is a very weak political ideology and it can only prosper if the host society has been significantly weakened by economic failure. But it is also the preferred social configuration of the leisure classes, which is why fascism in Europe had the enthusiastic backing of the European aristocracy and the European and United States' plutocracy. In fact, neither Mussolini, Franco nor Hitler would have gotten anywhere without the material and moral support of the European and US leisure classes. The uniforms worn by Hitler's "brownshirts", and the guns that they turned on innocent German trade unionists were supplied by the Union Bank in the United States, and were transported to Germany by the "Chicago-Hamburg Line". Both the Union Bank and the "Chicago-Hamburg Line" shipping company were owned by Prescott Bush (George HW Bush's father) and George Herbert Walker (George HW Bush's maternal grandfather), and the faux-science of "eugenics" was a US invention (used to prove the superiority of white folk over negroes) that was introduced into fascism as a result of the close working relationship between Hitler's German backers and the Bush/Walker clan in the US (GH Walker was a horse-breeder).
Fascism isn't just a perverted political ideology - it is the ultimate configuration of capitalist societies. As Mussolini described it, it is the "ultimate marriage of the corporation and the state". And it is where we are headed at the moment.
We need to wake up to ourselves - and QUICK!
"What is your solution if not to give government even more power to sell?"
Well, the ULTIMATE solution is simply not to bother with government at all. But that is not something that we can just decide on overnight and have the next day. For us to be able to dispense with government, we must first develop a truly "classless" society. And to do that, we need to move on from capitalism and begin a process of socialist development.
At the moment, there has only ever been one coherent strategy developed with the aim of arriving at a truly classless, self-governing society that needs neither a "state" nor a government, and that is the recipe laid down by Marx.
For a society to exist without government, it must be classless because the whole point of government is to mediate between the interests of competing social classes. And building a classless society is not about ensuring that everybody has the same level of wealth - it is about making wealth irrelevant to your social status or the level of access you enjoy to the fruits of our civilisation.
So, forget this nonsense about "real capitalism". Look around you. Look at the homeless people. Look at the crumbling infrastructure. Look at the poorly maintained public spaces. Look at the crime figures. Look at the terrorism problem. Look at global warming. Look at the past 70 years of continuous warfare. Look at the Balkans Genocide and the Rwanda Genocide. Look at the disaster of Iraq and Afghanistan, the Syrian Civil War, the rise of Al Qaeda and ISIL. What you are looking at is "real" capitalism - what "real" capitalism has become - what it was always going to become.
Shiver me timbers!
Were you intending that to be funny Shatner ?
Awesome series of posts Shats, I've seen a fair bit of V's stuff on ABC's The Drum and he/she obviously knows what he/she is talking about. So you're part of those "lefties" that Zing and A Happy Little Debunker are always banging on about!
IMO, there's a bit of stuff there that I can't see coming to fruition - embracing socialism and also building a classless society. Big-time idealism. May well be necessary in the long term from an environmental point of view even if it's not socially desirable.
V is correct. What we are seeing ARE the manifestations of capitalism. No question. And the further we go, the more entrenched the monopolies become and the greater their power, leading to that grey area of merging between the corporation and the State (banks that are too big to fail??). And on towards fascism.
People think fascism has been and gone but it's just around the corner with elements of it present right now and on the increase. Part of the problem is, if you mention the word fascism in Australia, people accuse you of undergraduate hyperbole.
Fascism is defined as "an authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organization".
So when you look at aspects of Australian government specifically under the Howard and Abbott governments, it's there.
- wars based on lies
- use of propaganda and obfuscation ("on water operational matters")
- attacks on journalists and "whistleblowers" e.g. staff from Nauru/Manus
- glorifying the military ( what do you think all this ANZACery is about??)
Turnbull is "same message, different salesman" and the Labor party either spinelessly toe the line because they think it's what the public wants or are just as complicit as the LNP.
Bottom line, if people vote for these parties which are so far to the right (check out Vote Compass or The Political Compass - our two main parties are way, way to the right by any reputable definition), they should be aware of in which direction these political parties and their policies will take us.
Are you two having me on ?
Deadly serious.
Have a good think Blowin.
holy shit.
You are serious.
What are your thoughts?
What do you agree or disagree about?
Power mongers have and will continue to control people through whichever means possible since society began.
Now they do it financially.
Would you rather Khans army running you down over the Mongolian Steppe or a medieval kings army putting your head on a spike ?
Life has never been easier especially for Australians....of all levels of society.
Look at the crumbling infrastructure , look at the poorly maintained public spaces.....Huh ?
Corruption is a direct by product of capitalism !!!! That alone is hilarious.
Hitler succeeded (?!) because he sourced his shirts from an American horse breeder...WTF ?
The most disastrous 150 years in human history.... You mean the during the period of time that the human race has increased in population exponentially....the only true judge of a species success in the natural environment.
You think the cane toads are successful ?
They've got nothing on our last 150 years.
But feel free to whinge and agree with factually incorrect dribble as you sit warm , comfy, safe and well fed in our stupidly stable nation.
I recommend a book named " I had trouble getting to Sola Sollew " for further reading.
https://m.
The world is always going to find ways to knock you down.
If it's not capitalism it will be....whatever replaces capitalism.
"Now they do it financially"
"The world is always going to find ways to knock you down".
Now you're taking the piss right? This discussion is looking a bit more broadly than tax cuts in Australia, we're talking large-scale death. I think you've missed the point of those threads above or maybe you haven't read them.
Some countries do have the proverbial Khan's army running through them, and Australia is complicit. So you're ok with Australia/capitalism doing that in your name? Not interested in thinking about a better future?
PS Andy - it's a bit of a stretch to say that Australia glorifies the military don't you think mate ?
Apart from a single day every year - that is a fair tribute to the service people that made sacrifices believing they were doing so for the nation - can you name another noteworthy recognition, let alone a glorification of our military.
Now North Korea - very non capitalist - that's how you glorify a military.
AndyM wrote:"Now they do it financially"
"The world is always going to find ways to knock you down".Now you're taking the piss right? This discussion is looking a bit more broadly than tax cuts in Australia, we're talking large-scale death. I think you've missed the point of those threads above or maybe you haven't read them.
Some countries do have the proverbial Khan's army running through them, and Australia is complicit. So you're ok with Australia/capitalism doing that in your name? Not interested in thinking about a better future?
So you think there would be no wars without capitalism ?
Wars are created through greed and lust for power, not the political medium it operates in.
No answer to my points above?
Side step.
From the Howard government on, both "sides" of politics have put a great deal of time and money into building up the military to be beyond reproach. ANZAC day stretches well beyond one day per year.
Generally, consider the books, TV shows, political talk about WW1, the Kokoda Track, "our boys" in Iraq and Afghanistan (much more Afghanistan for obvious reasons, though no-one seems to know why we're there), promotion of awards and VCs of soldiers.
Same thing in UK, and of course we know about the States. Why do you think this is?
Blowin wrote:AndyM wrote:"Now they do it financially"
"The world is always going to find ways to knock you down".Now you're taking the piss right? This discussion is looking a bit more broadly than tax cuts in Australia, we're talking large-scale death. I think you've missed the point of those threads above or maybe you haven't read them.
Some countries do have the proverbial Khan's army running through them, and Australia is complicit. So you're ok with Australia/capitalism doing that in your name? Not interested in thinking about a better future?So you think there would be no wars without capitalism ?
Wars are created through greed and lust for power, not the political medium it operates in.
Blowin, capitalism is not a political medium! It's an economic system, 3 seconds on Wikipedia will tell you that.
The whole point of this conversation is that hard-core capitalism tends to lead towards fascism, as has been proven time and again, and is being shown by elements creeping into Australia, facilitated by the far right.
Agree or disagree?
.
agree with that Andy to an extent.....but we're still a long way to go to reach Nazi Germany. so im not worried yet.
though I did hear once from one of my ancestors that everyone had a job under Hitler. and you could sleep with your front door open too. even in winter, if you were so inclined.
A big part of it Happy is the effect on other people in other countries.The idea that we can dominate militarily or economically but its ok because its for our benefit is indefensible.
Look at what the U.S. style capitalism has foisted on a lot of the world especially countries in Central and South America.
Capitalism with a big element of fascism.
As I've said before, you think this won't reach a new level when things really start to look economically bad for the U.S.?
We're already seeing elements of it with the idea of continual war - U.S. capitalism is based on that sort of stuff.
And what do you think the TPP is about?
Do you not see where far-right capitalism wants to take us?
Also, the argument that we have it good so we shouldn't be vigilant is pretty poor. Again, the far right in Australia i.e.. basically the two major parties but especially the LNP have shown their form.
And for some people to accept this because the've fallen for the nationalist three-card monte is showing what suckers they are.
I feel sorry for these guys and girls in the Australian Defence Force who think they are supporting some "Australian Legend" mythology that's been sold to them.
They are supporting U.S. capitalism first and foremost.
Shatner'sBassoon wrote:In fact, neither Mussolini, Franco nor Hitler would have gotten anywhere without the material and moral support of the European and US leisure classes. The uniforms worn by Hitler's "brownshirts", and the guns that they turned on innocent German trade unionists were supplied by the Union Bank in the United States, and were transported to Germany by the "Chicago-Hamburg Line". Both the Union Bank and the "Chicago-Hamburg Line" shipping company were owned by Prescott Bush (George HW Bush's father) and George Herbert Walker (George HW Bush's maternal grandfather), and the faux-science of "eugenics" was a US invention (used to prove the superiority of white folk over negroes) that was introduced into fascism as a result of the close working relationship between Hitler's German backers and the Bush/Walker clan in the US (GH Walker was a horse-breeder).
Fascism isn't just a perverted political ideology - it is the ultimate configuration of capitalist societies. As Mussolini described it, it is the "ultimate marriage of the corporation and the state". And it is where we are headed at the moment.
Wow! Just wow! What a dynasty! Then George HW in Panama and Kuwait/Iraq round 1. And George W in Afghanistan and Iraq round 2!
Ya learn something every day.
"Since its emergence as the dominant mode of production, capitalism has behaved like a roller-coaster - boosted temporarily by scams that become speculative bubbles, before crashing disastrously, killing millions and condemning tens of millions more to crushing poverty. But things have gotten progressively worse since the 1850's, when capitalist expansion reached its physical limits. Since then, we have experienced the most disastrous 150 years in human history with ALL of the most destructive wars in history being fought in this period, the most widespread and persistent famine in human history (still getting worse) gripping Africa and much of Asia, the fastest species extinction rate in the history of life on earth, rapid and wasteful depletion of our non-renewable natural resources, the degradation of our most productive farmland and the pollution of our waterways, our oceans, our soil and our atmosphere."
Faaaark. Hard to argue against that Blowie.
And why would you even be inclined to, what? Defend that??
“We can spot barbarity in other cultures and in our past, but when it’s in our midst we find it harder to accept and own up to it. We are in the middle of a barbarous time and greed is at the root of it. It’s interesting we’re talking about these diabolical regimes but there is an equally diabolical regime in power which is the regime of capitalism.”
lot's of interesting points on Q & A last night, not leasr this one from kate tempest, never heard of her, but she was a most impressive rapper poet chick, lots of good points about our drive to individualism too, bean counters reducing people to consumers has not been kind to western societys, neo- fucking - liberalism, capitalisn on steroids is the problem, not capitalism itself, adam smith's good intentions have lost their way with this modern mob
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/may/17/ayaan-hirsi-ali-qanda-west-...
That quote was on point ey sypo, she was great. Always good to watch qanda without politicians. Good read shats, thanks. It's a bit light on in some aspects but really it's the nitty gritty of what the western world has to get a handle on.
This article has a little more detail and a useful graphic that's illustrate the history of development of these systems.
https://medium.com/@joe_brewer/the-global-architecture-of-wealth-extraction-4c0a6b954a14#.h9y97319d
The rentier class has always held the power and the wealth, the system it currently uses to steal wealth and to subjugate certainly appears to be nearing some end point. I don't know if anyone remembers the article andym or mk1 posted about disruptive tech a while back but probable a good starting point as far as understanding alternatives.
Little hitler is at it again, what sort of totalitarian state circumvents child protection laws by allowing police to hold and interrogate children as young as 14 for up to two weeks without charge?
http://www.sydneycriminallawyers.com.au/blog/children-to-face-a-fortnigh...
yeh timfoilhat, she really was great, and great to see you don't have to wiggle your butt to be an empowered woman rapper. this whole fourth wave beyonce butt wiggling feminism does my head in. give me third wave riot girls anyday!
and, if you haven't yet had enough neo liberal bashing, I heard a great interview the other night on the psychological damage from neo liberalism...it's not just losers like duncan that are damaged!!
lifeless lawyers, super successful but broken, we've become too professional, defined by our jobs and nothing else.
anxiety from putting all our' values' eggs in the one basket that puts money first and formost, if the market fails (which it sure seems to be) our belief system is done. ..
pro active schadenfreuden to relieve guilt,
the Kardashian's, and hunger games for the poor
http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/latenightlive/is-neo-libera...
tim foilat wrote:Little hitler is at it again, what sort of totalitarian state circumvents child protection laws by allowing police to hold and interrogate children as young as 14 for up to two weeks without charge?
http://www.sydneycriminallawyers.com.au/blog/children-to-face-a-fortnigh...
I don't know what you're complaining about Tim, if they haven't done anything wrong they've got nothing to worry about!
AndyM wrote:tim foilat wrote:Little hitler is at it again, what sort of totalitarian state circumvents child protection laws by allowing police to hold and interrogate children as young as 14 for up to two weeks without charge?
http://www.sydneycriminallawyers.com.au/blog/children-to-face-a-fortnigh...
I don't know what you're complaining about Tim, if they haven't done anything wrong they've got nothing to worry about!
They do actually, they can be held in a cell and interrogated by police for up to two weeks, without charge even if they haven't done anything wrong.
Your shit stirring radar is off, tim.
lostdoggy wrote:Your shit stirring radar is off, tim.
I'll try better next time
lostdoggy wrote:Your shit stirring radar is off, tim.
Thanks Doggy.
And if of you grubs who wanna protest it, we'll deafen you, permenantly :)
http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/lawreport/australian-police...
Latest Morgan poll Labor leading 52.5% to L-NP 47.5%. Haven't seen this reported on any MSM yet? Why is that?
http://www.roymorgan.com/findings/6808-morgan-poll-federal-voting-intent...
yorkessurfer wrote:Latest Morgan poll Labor leading 52.5% to L-NP 47.5%. Haven't seen this reported on any MSM yet? Why is that?
http://www.roymorgan.com/findings/6808-morgan-poll-federal-voting-intent...
Watch what you say Yorkes, they're sending the LRAD around as we speak.
Check this shit out. Del-cons. Muppets like Tim Blair, Jo Nova, James Allen and Merv Bendle.
They're so lunar right that Miranda Devine & Janet Albrechtsen don't pass muster. Let alone Turdstill.
( I think Bolt is hiding in the bushes)
True (deluded) right-whingers. Muppets of principle. And Abbott-ites in the main (though he wasn't 'right-on' enough for some!)
AND THEY ARE PUSHING THEIR VOTE FOR THE ALP?!
Have a read. Follow some links. And defo check the comments. Fucken hell.
http://blogs.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/timblair/index.php/dailytelegrap...
They walk amongst us!
DELCON ONE!
http://blogs.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/mirandadevine/index.php/dailytel...
The comments are priceless (and witless)
Funny reading guys.
It's true, I think there is reasonable evidence to suggest that we are witnessing the end game of capitalism, and I'm no marxist, haven't read him in fact, but I know that he spent much of his time talking more about why capitalism inevitably fails, more than spending time suggesting that communism was the way, the truth and the light.
But any academically minded on here can correct me on that.
Capitalism, as suggested by other posts, only works when it is constantly held back against its worst excesses by government, and basically governments have vacated the field.
These are the end days, of capitalism, at least. It will be a quiet revolution, or a bloody revolution. I'm hoping for the former.
We are living in interesting times, my friends. Watch closely, most will miss it
Shatner'sBassoon wrote:DELCON ONE!
http://blogs.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/mirandadevine/index.php/dailytel...
The comments are priceless (and witless)
The comments are unbelievable SB. Half a brain between the lot of them. Wow. Stupid on a stick.
I wonder what they would think about a damn surf website looking at them and laughing at their goddamn neophyte stupidity. Maybe surfers aren't as dumb as they have been made out all these years.
stoked to hear that yorksurfer
as a serial labor bagger I thought I wouldn't be able to say this for another 5 years but it appears labor have actually got their shit together
it could be that turnball, who we all had high hopes for, appears to be absolutely useless, offering nothing, doing nothing, with a plan of more of nothing . he even looks like he's floundering, mumbling, bumbling, repeating himself, repaeting himself and repeating.....
.it's like abotts back, what happened to that articulate confident man?
so the disappointment with turnball could be making shorten look good, who is still boring and uninspiring. or it could be that labor has actually been beavering away in the quiet, actually developing policy and stuff, making a cohesive plan. and now labor can come out and sell that plan with confidence
meanwhile turnball looks like a blundering fool as he airs idea after idea with no conviction, seeing what will fly with the public, while having no big picture plan beyond trickle down economics, a bloody old discredited idea from reagan times. he's really got nothing...quite surprising
reaganomics is no plan, we've been here before
https://m.
Dirty Rotten Imbeciles! Speaking of which, how's old Mr Potato Head, Peter Dutton today? FFS.
https://ausvotes2016.com.au/2016/05/18/peter-dutton-throws-a-dead-cat/
The LNP really have got nothing. We're just gonna get weeks and weeks of refugee vilification and scare-mongering from this rabble? Really?
Dutton used to be a copper, apparently. Erm, wouldn't have guessed. Wonder what type he was. I wonder if he was in the union?
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