Labor leadership

That's one close relationship, as it always has been, between Murdoch and the Conservatives here and elsewhere.

Just remind me of what Murdoch owns in Australia ............ Oh here it is check this link

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_assets_owned_by_News_Corporation

Little wonder the ALP, the greens and independents cannot get clear air on any policy initiative.

Just finished reading 'Dial M for Murdoch' and came away with my head spinning at the gall, arrogance and ethical vacuum of News Limited's British arm.

As you may know the phone hacking was uncovered just as News Ltd was poised to acquire cable network, BSkyB. When it all started falling apart a British politician said, "No country would allow one man to own so much media."

Except for Australia that is.

Floyd, true statement for the present state of things. But to be even-handed and accurate, the Murdoch press was firmly behind the Hawke and Keating governments when their policies favoured greater media concentration. As was Packer.

A mate who's the local plumber came around yesterday arvo and we discussed the coalitions new broadband policy. I said it was like having the mains water pipe running past your house but having a drinking straw connecting to your plumbing. That's how restricted the flow of information will be to people's homes unless they spend thousands on a bigger pipe under Turnbulls proposal.
Just what Murdoch and the established mainstream media want, a monopoly on what you watch and the information you can receive. The higher speed internet being rolled out by Labor will transform our news and entertainment like music downloads did to that industry 10 years ago. The established players in that industry screamed out in pain as new players came in and wrecked their business model. Then things like ITunes started and a new way to buy and listen to music was established. High definition viewing on demand would be unreal, like being able to watch any surf movie ever made at the touch of a keyboard and paying a few bucks iTunes style!

Great analogy YS, it's a half arsed approach that will in the end cost more as it'll have to be again upgraded.

Not too disimilar to the one way Southern Expressway through Southern Adelaide which is now being duplicated, should of just built a two way freeway like everyone else does in the first place!

@whaaat, you are correct about Hawke/Keating. Same thing happened in the UK with Tony Blair. They all played with the devil and he will support either side of politics so long as he gets what he wants. So what has Abbott promised?

@YS & Craig, too true ............

Do I see a Hitler rant on the conservatives NBN plan in the making?

The fundamental flaws in both parties policies are putting cables in the ground.I don't think any townies really comprehend the cost/time structure to even get close to completing both projects. I am a farmer and there is no way labor are going to dig a trench 8k's just for me to be connected or my neighbour who is another 4k's away. To connect the majority of the bush is just impractical and not possible! At least in town you can choose if you really need nbn or not. Doesn't seem either side has it right. Just hope it doesn't end up as another school's(BER) or pink batts fiasco..hang-on it is labor!!

Labor's fibre coverage is for '93% of premises'.

The remaining 7% will be serviced by 'next generation wireless' (4%) and 'satellite' (3%).

http://www.alp.org.au/getattachment/f2da6cb3-fae2-42d2-a1ba-b9047b33cf95...

Are you saying 7percent live in the country?why dont the just wireless and sat. all of us?i like my internet to be mobile not fixed.seems like they both havent thought it through!..everyone seems to jump on murdoch ..but i bet you all have pay tv!!

Wireless won't work for a project of this size. It's already quite common for the major 3G services to be hugely congested in urban areas, meaning internet connectivity is sometimes unavailable (even right in the middle of the Sydney CBD).

Small towns are classic examples for this problem - their towers are set up for average 3G usage (based on residential numbers), but during holiday periods or events, they can't cope with the extra demand brought on by the large influx of people. It's just like a thousand people trying to access your home ADSL line - no-one's going to be able to download anything. Therefore as bandwidth consumption continues to increase over the coming decades, these kinds of problems would only get worse under a wireless solution.

The Coalition had a WiFi proposal for the initial NBN offering (6 years ago?) but wisely realised that fibre is the only option to future proof the country's communication requirements (except, their proposal is for a cheaper hybrid model that still requires the use of Telstra's copper network which is very old and expensive to maintain).

As for satellite, its too expensive and too slow (top speeds are slower than what we're getting on ADSL2 right now).

And Pay TV? Nup, I don't have it. Everything I need is online.

Ahhhh, actually no I don't have pay TV nor do I, or have I, bought, any of his rags that pass for newspapers. Not even the local suburban paper which I had stopped.

My grandma used to buy the Weekend Australian but she was real old school when it came to her politics and her toilet needs and she used to joke she met both with her purchase. I loved my nan.

YS made a really good point back there that is highlighted perfectly by your last point thermalben. Everything you need is online, just about everything I need is too.

If we end up with a proper fibre optic NBN to 90% of the country, old media like cable TV might just face some serious competition. Hence Rupert doesn't like it much and will jump on the Libs bandwagon this time around. Companies like Google are lauding the NBN in the form Labor is putting together. Such praise is of course because it's in their own self interest too. But it's an interesting point.

What kind of company will still be around in the next 50 years, Fox/News ltd in its present form or Google? New media is happening (what did that weird rabbit guy call it, media2.0 or something), we can be ahead of the curve and grow a new economy or lag behind and try to keep our head afloat in the old world.

You dont think rupert is already all over this?you dont become a multibillionaire by being re-activebut hey i dont have foxtel and prob never will. I am expecting the same with the nbn.whats the saying...listen to the politicians and believe the opposite.none of them can lie straight in bed. anyway i think its funny how this is a topic on labor leaders and its turned into a labor promotion

You could try this barley: STOP THE BOATS, BIG NEW TAX, JULIAR, MASSIVE DEBT, WORSE THEN GREASE, JOB LOSSES etc. etc. etc.
Just keep it under three words, the public eat that shit up. Works every time, just ask Tony!

Tony Abbott ..... action minnow

I can't believe that there's so much opposition to NBN!? I worked with Telstra and its shocking how many people can't even get an adsl in metro areas. I also lived and worked in few countries in Europe and I can guarantee you that this country is already miles behind with broadband quality....

Anyone watch Mad As Hell last night. Loved the line where Shaun Mc compared "Mr Broadband" Turnbill to Mr Antenna. Funny Stuff!!

Seems as if many Australians want a standard of living like the Nordic countries while paying 3rd world taxation rates.

Surplus / deficit mindless chatter.

Politicians and those that support them like to talk endlessly about balancing the budget while avoiding the truth in the room.

Australia is a low tax country compared to most countries we like to measure ourselves against.

If you want to see how a country can get it right research what Norway does and how they tax mining and what size their sovereign wealth funds is.

If you hear an Australian politician talk about lowering taxes ask yourself this question ... what lobby group are they representing now? That right Gina, Clive, Twiggy, Rupert?

So I guess that you don't consider yourself an illegal boat person Nick3? Fact is if the locals were given a say, our taking over this beautiful place would have been illegal too. So many people buy into the "boat people" bullshit designed by liberal racists to scare us. The vast majority of illegals arrive by plane but it doesn't have quite the dramatic effect to say "plane people". For those that do have the guts to get in a leaky boat and brave the oceans I say let em in and load the boat full of redneck racists and have them sent back to Afghanistan to be shot at.

How do you feel about the National Disability Insurance Scheme Nick? Those bludging little paralysed disabled kids sucking on the taxpayers teat expecting us to look after them. The nerve of them hey? Hitler had a good solution right Nick? Just exterminate them and the other undesirables? People like you are the reason Hitler was able to gain power in 1930's Germany Nick.

Thank you nick for giving me the invitation to spell out in further detail my point about tax.

Australians, individuals and companies, pay lower taxes than most other OECD countries. We are a low tax country. Tax receipts under Labor as a percentage of GDP are much lower than the Howard years ....... how is that so??

Rather than talking about cost savings lets talk about sensible taxation reform, and by that I mean raising taxes.

Where to start:

End the favourable tax treatment family trusts get and require trusts to pay company tax rates = saving at least $1 billion per year.
End negative gearing on speculative housing investment = saving at least $13 billion per year.
Perhaps broadening or increasing the rate of the GST.
Ending stamp duty on payrolls and house purchases for 1st home buyers.
Ending the diesel subsidy mining companies get = saving many billions per year.
Increasing the tax paid by mining companies = how many billions?? .... see earlier comment about what Norway does, I think they have the biggest sovereign wealth fund in the world.
Lower company tax rates for small business.
End the use of tax havens by Australians = savings billions and billions per year.
Means test all government family payments stopping middle class welfare = saving billions per year.
End or means test the favourable treatment the wealthy get on their superannuation accounts = saving billions per year
(note these last 2 relate to Howard / Costello during the mining boom mark 1)

Get the picture Nick .... we can have the best health, education, NDIS and infrastructure in the world if only we could have politicians with the guts, vision, drive, fire in the belly, to govern for us and not the wealthy and their lobby groups.

Now nick, please reconsider your comments about the disabled. They belittle the good that must be in you somewhere.

Nice to see so many BRAINWASHED labor supporters..nothing like the captain(and crew) going down with the ship! After all the abismal policies/decisions pitched at us it is incredible to see anyone still willing to vote for these basket cases!! 'no carbon tax under a government I lead'..BER..Mining tax(which was to prop up the over spending) instead it has cost jobs..pink batts(which killed 3 people)..Craig Emerson saying the carbon tax won't kill Whyalla....then 400 jobs lost in Whyalla..lets see what else...oh yeah NBN..cost est 36 bill..act cost-undisclosed..then who does it connect?border security?...whats that??
@ floyd you obviously live in the city and have never been to the country...scrap diesel subsidy..goodbye food!!..what does labor stand for?
TAX and SPEND..look over history.if only we had a surplus and a future fund...oh thats right...we did!!

Funny thing is that the polls have been saying that Abott needs to sit back and do nothing to win this election. Problem is... That is exactly what he is doing.

Barley I for one am not a labor supporter. I think the candidates for both parties are terrible. The point I'm trying to make nick is that your views are extreme and you are targeting disadvantaged people in this argument which stinks. We are fortunate and should be more compassionate to those that need it. No ones talking about opening the flood gates to these dreaded "boat people" but if they are genuinely seeking refuge we can afford it. Have the intelligence to vote for policy not some stupid allegence.

nick is a fruit loop

Diesel subsidy for MINERS barley.

And the high Australian dollar isn't killing farmers right now?????
Only this week 3rd and 4th generation fruit growers in Victoria have ripped out 1,000s and 1,000s of trees because of they can't compete against cheap imported fruit because of the high Australian dollar.

And lets all remind ourselves why we have a high Australian dollar, that's it, the mining frenzy. Boom or bust for a 100 years and with every boom jobs everywhere else suffer (tourism, farming, manufacturing = the real employers of people). Sustainable mining yes, not this frenzy of investment followed by a bust and job layoffs - it will come again).

Geeez Floyd you are sounding more and more socialist every post. Far out do you like having any take home pay at all? The way you are talking we would ban surfing next because it is against the common good and interests of the people. One thing Norway did right is nationalise it's resources, something we haven't been able to do but also something most country's just use as a giant pool of money to dole out through corrupt public servants and politicians.
How about labour and the driving force behind labour (unions) are responsible for this highly inflated cost of living? "Fuck off were full" what an amazing protectionist brain child that was to force the labour shortage and resulting wage rise all the while stifling the economy outside of the resource market. Master stroke by the selfish unions.

It's an interesting point you bring up reecen regarding nationalising the mines.
Gough Whitlam talked about nationalising the mines when he was in power in the mid 70's. Can you imagine how that could of transformed our country not having 90% of profits flowing offshore?
I was just a kid then and didn't understand much about politics but as time went on it remained a confusing era in Australian politics. Just how was an independent government able to be sacked with the approval a foreign monarch? Even now opinions vary wildly depending on your political beliefs.
About five years ago I read an article suggesting the royal families huge interest and influence on Brittish banks which owned the majority of shareholdings in Rio Tinto may have been threatened by Whitlam's suggestion that we nationalise the mines. Next thing the Queen has signed off on the governments sacking?
Hugo Chavez nationalised Venezuela's oil reserves more recently and we all know how well that went down. Staged CIA sponsored coup's an assassination attempts before an untimely death. Of course they say how bad things are in Venezuela but that again depends on whether you are in the wealthy elite or are the man on the street.
Whitlam's is probably alive today because he shut up and took his medicine or he may have come down with a mysterious cancer or had an accident.
The moral of the story is never get between the rich and powerful and a pile of money!

I am not advocating nationalisation but perhaps the big problem with mining here in Australia is the relationship between the States and the Commonwealth.

Here, states compete against each other for the mining investment dollar because its their (state's) financial interest via mining royalties.

An example of this that I remember was when the aluminium companies wanted to establish smelters here in Australia (mid to late 70s??). Well, it was a bidding war to the bottom between the states to see who would offer the cheapest power to these incredibly energy intensive smelters. Victoria got one at Portland and today that smelter uses (I think) 40% of all electricity used in Victoria. Electricity produced in the La Trobe valley 100s of kms away from Portland (also very wasteful and expensive waste of power and money to maintain over such a long distance). Every now and then the owners of that smelter get the government to bear its arse and sign another agreement to sell cheap power for another 10 - 15 years.

So we have states tripping over each other in a cash grab while the outcome of this mining frenzy has national implications which the Commonwealth has to deal with .... high Australian dollar with its negative impacts on just about every other area of the economy.

That is why the mining tax was a great idea and why politicians with guts (do we have them?) should revisit it.

While mining companies can pick off individual states we are doomed. THere needs to be a new level of co-operatiion between the states and Commonwealth over this issue to ensure decisions are made in the national interest.

Nick America and Europe were up the shit well before the Australian dollar went up.

Of course your a fruit loop Nick, sorry you were the last to find out.

Peter Harvey may you rest in peace.

Australia- Fuck yeah!

"Is this an affront to the Constitution or was it just a stroke of good luck for Mr Fraser?"

GOLD!

Gee what a difference two weeks makes in politics. Labor now with a real chance of holding onto power and Tony Abbott on the back foot over travel expense rorts while promoting his book Battlelines in 2009.
I wonder what nick3's take on all this is?
http://www.independentaustralia.net/2013/politics/morgan-shows-labor-in-...

Yeah, you can already sense increasing levels of desperation as the polls continue to swing. I'm stoked that it'll be a close election - the country can only benefit from anything other than an Abbott walk through.

If Abbott gets in Australia will be a much poorer country.

I wouldn't mind a Liberal leadership but more so under Malcolm Turnball than Abbott, at least he has a decent idea on most things (besides his NBN plan).

I should not get involved as politics?

mmmmmmm

I can't vote?

My oldies were spewing that Gillard got rolled but my take on it is that she may have had more involvement in the spill than was reported. For a start by being PM for three years and three days she is now entitled to the full benefits afforded a former PM, which kick in after 3 years. When the polls continued to show no improvement Labor may have held off on rolling her till after the 3 years as a show of respect for the hard work she had done.
Also the Coalition have a huge amount of money being donated by vested interests-big business, corporations and wealthy individuals so now all the resources devoted to destroying Gillard have been wasted. It will take time and more money to launch an effective attack campaign against Rudd.

Also she implemented all the policy and reforms that she had planned. History will be much kinder to her than the treatment she received during her time as PM. By declaring that the loser of the leadership spill had to walk away from politics she gave herself the perfect face saving way of getting out. Despite putting on a brave front that pressure and crap she endured plus the death of her father whilst in office had to have had an effect on her.

Rudd is without doubt a far better communicator and salesperson. He doesn't need to do anything other than sell the reforms Labor have brought in during this term such as NDIS, School Funding Increases, NBN, Paid Maternity Leave etc.

Good points YS.

Yeah good analysis YS, though I don't buy the entitlement point. Anyone who makes it to PM has a work ethic that few people could relate to. Cashing in the entitlements just doesn't seem to fit the mould of all our past PMs, including Gillard.

But if I am wrong then so what? As you said she implemented some great policy that'll only be fully appreciated in hindsight. Far as I'm concerned she earned the benefits.

History will view the minority government led by Julia Gillard kindly.

The legislative reforms passed by the Gillard government with the support of the independents will change Australia for the better for generations to come. I am particularly proud about the NDIS. What an amazing difference that will make to the quality of life for the disabled members of our community and their carers.

I normally don't believe in conspiracy theories so I don't agree with the 3 years and 3 days one YS but I reckon the conservative forces here most definitely rallied against the whole idea of minority government with alliances with the Greens and Independents.

Why? The lobby groups representing big capital can't buy and/or control the parliament like they normally do.

It will be a cold day in hell before we have a majority government again; even the ALP today announced it shouldn't enter into alliances with other political parties in the future.

Its all about control not democracy the Independents and Greens delivered.

Footnotes:

Rob Oakeshott and Tony Windsor were great.

I tend to agreed with Mark Latham's assessment of Kevin Rudd. Political Terrorist.

Yeah it's only a theory that they held off rolling her till the three year mark but I personally think she has more than earned the entitlements after the crap she endured. She isn't someone mega wealthy like the Rudd family with the $200 million plus fortune so she deserves the benefits in my opinion.

As for former PM's cashing in their entitlements I read recently that our former PM's have an average yearly expenditure of $1 million each except for Howard who spends double that at $2 million per annum. When you consider he also refused to live at the Lodge and flew to Canberra every day at taxpayers expense($600,000 p.a) he certainly doesn't mind getting his snout in the taxpayers trough!

So then, Nick3, who are you gonna vote for matey?

Whoever Alan Jones tells him to.