Labor leadership

I'm guessing the Liberal Party would be happy with that result. Labor is no hope with Ms Gillard still at the helm.

Labor seem happy to return to the opposition benches - thats the only explanantion for the events of last week.

Ah what happened to the "good ole boy" you once were nick3 when you had lots to say about dole bludgers, your hard earned taxes being wasted on social welfare programs and illegal boat people? Feeling too comfortable that your conservative sewer rat will get in later in the year? Do you really think he has the ticker to resist proper scrutiny of his mantra before us punters have to vote? Well, I understand if he keeps on with his 5 second sound bites and appearances on 9's Morning Show and arse licking to Alan Jones he might just do it, but lets see. As for Labor, they are fucked and the sooner they have a clean out starting with the mega ego Rudd the better. See you at the double dissolution nicko and don't be late. Politics in the lucky country is about to get dumber and very very nasty. Let the most wealthy lobby group win, as they always do. Lucky country my arse.

Floyd! Where yer been? Good to hear from yer.

Hey whaaaat,

had the summer off from the dribble-net but alas i couldn't resist the temptation of booting a good ol boy ....

Never been much of a political kinda person but maybe now I'm getting older I'm paying more attention these days (hard to ignore too with the 24 hour news cycle). Either way the last couple of years have been pretty disappointing no matter what side of the political spectrum you vote for. I feel like we're heading towards a quandary this September - which political team is the least shittiest one we can elect to run our country?

which political team is the least shittiest one we can elect to run our country?

By: "thermalben"

Isn't that always the way, I just can't see how so many people think that this = Abbott!

By the way if you take the politics out of the picture,what have you got against Tony Abbott. At least he has a moral compass unlike our Gillard.

By: "nick3"

Why would you care about Tony Abbott's moral compass "if you take politics out of the picture"? Politics is the only reason we're discussing him at all.

As for Tony's moral compass, personally I don't think he's ever had one. In any case it certainly hasn't been a focus of the Liberal campaign.

nicko,

back out from under your rock?

whatever your political beliefs there is a undeniable truth in politics and that is strong oppositions make strong governments so wishing the end of the opposite side of politics is a dangerous thing.

tony abbott has a moral compass? just how naive are you nick? still believe in the tooth fairy? its a rare politician that has a moral compass on either side of the fence.

Re: strong oppositions ... think Howard with Work choices, think NSW & Labor, think the influence Gunns had on both sides of politics in Tasmania, think Joh Bjelke-Petersen & his gerrymander etc etc ....... these were all periods in Australian political life where the government was not held to account by the opposition and/or public. So if Abbott is to become PM later in the year the least I am hoping for is a strong opposition (ALP, Greens, Independents).

Moral compass? Politics is politics and if we want morals we should look to a church. That is why we in Australia have a separation of powers between church and state (unlike other parts of the world where they are one and the same with mostly negative results).

Wouldn't it be wonderful if we could vote for a "devils advocate/null vote" In which we can show that we are not in any capacity happy with the political system.
Elections have deviated from actual god forbid 'intellectual' debates of policys to pre-k bickering. Perhaps if enough devils advocates votes were received the government and opposition would be forced to discard the leaders and another election would be held in 6 months with the new leaders. At least that way we could have a chance of getting out of the "I can throw fecal matter better then you" rut of immaturity that we are in, and have been in for a while. It might even encourage *gasp* intellectual debates.
/End Rant

Moss

Okay, my last comment on this topic.

Agree with mossman and that is why I have voted informal in the lower house of all elections for perhaps the last decade.

On the question of mature policy debate; good luck. My reading of politics here, in the US and UK over the last 5 - 10 years is that politicians are increasingly beholden to lobby groups and the media/press. I hold this view because of the actions of people and groups like Murdoch (and his Fox News in the US and his local papers here), the National Rifleman's Association, food and tobacco lobby groups, miners (Twiggy & Gina), the IPA, shock jocks like Alan Jones & Andrew Bolt and generally the 24 hr news cycle that dictates that politicians are stalked endlessly.

So if you want mature policy debate first you need politicians with the strength to withstand the constant pressure of the lobby and press groups. Who on either side of politics has that strength now? For those backing Tony Abbott do you think the press will leave him alone and he will not stumble with the mirco examination of everything he says and does as PM?

If we want mature political debate first stop buying the gutter press and turn off the gutter radio.

That's it for me ... see you all at the double dissolution in 2 years time. It will be a feeding frenzy for the press/media in the meantime .... it might even save Murdoch's press stable here in Oz.

Governments come and go, that's what democracy is all about. It's the policies they leave behind that really count. In the 1970's Labor brought in Medicare which was vigorously opposed by the Liberals. I don't think anyone would say it was a bad thing today. Except nick3 maybe. In the 1990's Labor brought in compulsory superannuation. Tony Abbott at the time said it was the biggest con job ever. The idea was that people would be less reliant on the old age pension. Today Labor brought in reforms that will see a 30 year old today on average earnings retire with $118,000 extra in their superannuation. Only 0.4% of Australians retiring in 2014/15 stand to be worse off(those with more than $2 million in their super accounts).
Of course Tony Abbott is screaming blue murder.
I challenge you nick3 to name one policy the Coalition have brought in that compares to the two I've just mentioned in terms of building a better Australia? The GST? Hahaha thats a joke!

What about the Labor party and union's destruction of Australia's manufacturing sector and driving the cost of living in this country up to unsustainable levels?
What has that done for Australia?

As a maintenance fitter reecen I worked in manufacturing for over 20 years and it has been declining in Australia for that whole time ie. through several government cycles. It's a pity but new technologies can't compete with low wage countries working for $2 a day.
As for the cost of living the biggest expense any of us have is putting a roof over our heads. The cost of housing went from 2 to 3 times the average wage to more than 8 times that during the Howard years. You can thank the Liberals for that.

Doesnt help that we are now more expensive then anywhere else in the world to manufacture in. And get more expensive everytime there is a Labor government ellected.
You may also find that during that period housing around the world went ballistic, Australia was lucky not to crash like a lot of other housing markets.

Dont get me wrong we definitly need both sides of politics, but I reckon right now we need a change.

@yorkster - I'll take that challenge about one policy the Coalition brought in that compares to super and Medibank/care in building this country: increasing the formal refugee program in the late 70's to bring the Vietnamese refugees into Australia.

There. I've managed to piss everyone off.

Including you, Nick, I trust.

Good call whaaat, Malcolm Fraser, a Liberal PM, did many good things like the Vietnamese refugees and stopping sand mining on Fraser Island. Did he also stop whaling in Australia? Of course with such "liberal" policies it is highly unlikely he would get pre-selected as a Conservative oooops I mean Liberal Party member these days. Just goes to show how far to the right Australian politics has gone. Remember the Liberal Victorian Premier Dick Hamer and his green wedges? now under threat of being flogged off by the current Victorian Government and their developer mates.

Couldn't agree more, Rattle. Johnny and his mob drove all of the wets out in the 80s and 90s. Liberals? Ha! All Tories to the core now. Menzies must be spinning in his grave.

As (fatally) flawed as the Aust Dems were, they at least provided me with an option I was truly comfortable with in the lower house, given my natural disinclination for a Tory mindset and an ongoing discomfort with Labor (real misogyny, in practice, although not policy. Nor could I ever quite forgive it for the White Australia policy.)

Now? Nada. Not a sausage.

A bit disappointing that most people now don't give a sausage. (Including me) Time to start incentivizing politics. Get some people in with brains and real world experience. What I would give to see people running departments who actually understood the underlying social and economic constraints.
I keep thinking of Singapore. "Only democratically elected dictatorship" I know of and it works. Definitely not perfect but has a lot of positives.

The only reason Johnny went was because of workchoices. The unions got the shits on and weilded their 'power' or scare campaign and made everyone worried. 10 yrs on and the union membership has collapsed Maybe both parties. Now we have a powerless, useless labor gov who couldn't sell ice cream in the desert. Who knows what Abbott will be like BUT he can't be any worse...Thats bloody impossible!! How much more a bigger hole can we get in? at least he surfs!!
maybe both parties should get some hot chicks in there..then they'd get my vote(something to look at!!)Who was that foxy NSW labor premier? yum!

I wonder if the phallic symbols that i'm going to draw on my ballot paper will count as a vote for the Sex Party - now there's REAL policy!

Agree with you barley that Labor couldn't sell icecream in the desert. I can't understand why we can have such a good economy in the midst of worldwide economic doom but still be so pessimistic.
But if you think it couldn't be worse under Abbott don't count on it. Thank god we booted Howard when we did as the governments stimulus measures(opposed by the Liberal Party)saved our bacon during the GFC. All the worlds economic rating agencies have said so and that's why we have three star rating from all of them.
We have a mainstream media led by Murdoch intent on forcing a change of government. Murdoch is terrified of the NBN and the effect it will have on his pay TV and other media interests. Internet Protocol TV(high definition)is on the way but needs the higher speeds of the NBN to work. This will render his pay TV network obselete. When Murdoch gets Abbott into the lodge it will be payback time and we will all be poorer for it to maintain the profitability of Ruperts Australian media interests.

Not sure about people saying Abbott can't be worse than the current government. We know what the current (ALP) government stand for in policy areas like: carbon pricing; education; NBN; the National Disability Insurance Scheme; the mining tax etc etc. The implementation of some of these policies may have been flawed but al least we know what they are.

So, what does Tony stand for?

We know what he is opposed to: taxing the super rich's superannuation; the carbon price; the mining tax; we also know he will re-instate tax on the superannuation of 3.5 MILLION lowest paid workers/Australians.

We also know he will cut "government waste" but is unable or unwilling to say where that waste is ...... you Queenslanders know all about this with Campbell Newman and his wholesale cuts to services. Waste = real services that government current provides. What services would you like cut? defence?, Centrelink? Education?

So how long is Tony going to hide from proper security of his policies? Are Australians so dumb as to accept that his conservative government will be better? Let Abbott be fucking well honest with the Australian people and front the media (like Gillard and her ministers do everyday of the week) and explain to us all what he stands for. He has spent so much time talking about honesty so why doesn't the actuallyshow some himself????????

I so much agree with you yorksurfer but will add the conservatives in this country including Murdoch, Gina and Twiggy and the like got so pissed off about the ALP leading a minority government where God save us the independents and the greens had a real voice (as opposed to the mega rich and their lobby groups) that all hell broke loose in the media after the last election and its been war ever since.

Hey Yorke, firstly I don't vote or support either party. I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure the only reason they had money for a stimulous package is because the Libs left them with a surpluss in the kitty. That sure as hell got spent bloody fast when Ruddy got in and now look at the debt we are in. May have been a short term gain but once again we will be paying for years to get it back. Just like when the redhead slipped in she promised a surpluss by 2012. What a crock of shit.

This country needs a bloody big political shake up. Get rid of all these pricks that are only interested in lining their own pockets and start thinking about the good of the country and its people.

It's easy to get a surplus in good economic times fitzroy. All you do is sell off assets previously owned by the taxpayers(like the gold reserves Costello sold for fuckall, look at the price of gold now) and spend nothing on infrastructure. That's what the Howard government did.
As an example when Rudd got in he spent more on the Pacific Hwy in the first year then Howard did for the entire 12 years he was in power. Or the upgrades to every school in the country. That was part of the stimulus spending. It kept thousands of people in work and prevented a recession. So that money hasn't dissappeared into thin air as the Liberals would have you believe, it's all around you.
Anyway you said it yourself- you could be wrong. If you and others believe the B.S that you read and see in the mainstream media you deserve what's coming under an Abbott government.

Woo up Yorke, re-read my first line. I don't vote or support either party. This is why I don't like talking politics. No more comments from me on this subject.

It always surprises me when people say they don't vote and then have an opinion on politics. Never the less you did dip your toe in fitzroy, sorry if the water was a bit hot for you. Things will be heating up even more between now and September 14th. And no complaining about Abbott after the election. You have a chance to vote, if you don't you get what you get!
Hope your getting some waves though fitzy;)

Actually had a fun surf today Yorke, thanks, hope your getting your fill too. Cheers.

Well done YS another ironed on labor supporter.How bad do things have to get before reality hits? It puzzles me that with all the job losses , massive debt,, hypocrisy, bad policy calls(if you want me to name them I will)company collapses, that some people can still actually consider voting for labor! A main Labor slogan is 'solidarity forever!' and yet their history(think keating knifing Hawke) Gillard knifing Rudd then vic versa says exactly the opposite. Most times, federally I have donkey voted, for it doesn't matter who SA votes for, but this time I will vote Libs...in state elections(SA) I actually voted Labor because the Libs are shit. and labor has done a good job..Why does everyone say Abbs'y (as I like to call him!) sux? he hasn't even had a shot! anyway its the best thing about oz..everyone can have a say yeah?

Look Labor have made mistakes for sure. Thing is when you are implementing big reforms there is always going to be hick-ups whether in public or private enterprises. The alternative is to do nothing. Then nothing will go wrong but as a country you will stagnate. Things like the NBN are massive nation building projects that will set us up for the next 100 years.
As for job losses the unemployment rate is around 5%. Jobs are created and lost as the economy fluctuates. That's capitalism at work.
The massive debt slogan in just bullshit I'm sorry. In our one trillion dollar plus economy a debt of around $100 billion is the same as if you earned $100,000 a year and had a $10,000 mortgage. We are dealing with the after effects of the GFC. If company tax revenues were the same as when Howard was in power we would still be generating surpluses. If you think the GFC is over ask the people in Cyprus.
As for Labor and their in-fighting yeah it's disappointing. It's a case of the devil you know verses the devil you don't. I don't like and dont trust Abbott. Look at his background and what he stands for. He will take this country backwards at a critical time in our history.

The exact same can be said for Gillard and co. What does she stand for? says one thing, does another. Stabs collegues in the back, then stomps them into submission even though half her party despise her. The NBN is a white elephant. Can you imagine the nbn being delivered to every single household in Aust? seriously?How long will it take to dig the trench and roll out to cactus, Marion, Gnarloo? they are more than 12months behind already and way over budget and over priced to connect..have you seen their projected plans?wireless will overtake it .If that is labors great white hope then we are all fucked!
Abbott will get voted in then 6months down the track he will be knifed for Turnbull once his polls suck as well. Why don't they chuck Malc's in now?

Hey barley I've voted for the Liberals before too. I voted for Dean Brown after the State Bank debacle in the late 1980's. He was a good bloke but ended getting knifed by John Olsen in a leadership coup. Seems like Labor don't have a monopoly in knifing elected leaders.
Your wrong about wireless being an alternative for the NBN. All the experts agree it just doesn't have the capacity to be used on a large scale. And isolated places like Marion Bay where I live won't be connected with fibre true but because 95% of homes around Australia will have fibre connection, the 5% that will rely on wireless will cope as the capacity will be greatly reduced.
The coalition propose to end the fibre at every street corner meaning home owners would need to spend thousands of dollars to complete the connections. The more wealthy will do it but the majority will put up with an inferior product and be unable to access the benefits of high speed Internet.

Without holding a majority in parliament it is difficult for the current government to implement policies without having them changed sometimes quite drastically by the greens and independents. The labor party have managed to introduce new policies despite this. Not so sure Abbott has strong negotiating skills as he stumbles frequently with the media which leads me to think he could be easily influenced. He does not give me the impression he would make a strong leader.

This article is worth a read. Up to you to draw your own conclusions.
www.independentaustralia.net/2013/politics/a-fair-go-for-prime-minister-...

raku ... thanks, you wouldn't get that sort of thing in the mainstream media.

But, checkout what's in The Age today ...........

http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/politics/abbotts-big-bold-plan-much-too...

Hey your back nick3! Funny to hear you talk of lack of knowledge and unrealistic ideology. We have heard zero facts from you in this thread, just spin.
Me and barley caught up yesterday at the beach. We are good mates despite our opposing political views. We also have an interest in surfing. You will see our comments on a range of surfing related issues on this website. You however only appear on here occasionally with your inflexible political opinion. Do you surf? Ever ridden a wave? Or is it that one of your kids surf and you discovered the forums on Swellnet whilst spying on your kids Internet history to make sure they are not viewing porn or something?
I know Murdoch recently shut down the right wing Punch website so you might be looking for somewhere new sprout your political views? Well you are most welcome to start threads on here if you wish but understand if you write your biased crap people like me will call you to account with facts to counter your bullshit. People who wish to read these threads can then make their own judgements as is their right! Have a nice day nick:)

@ Floyd a common theme with Abbott he appears lacking in a lot of areas to me. I just wish peter Costello was still in politics so we would have Abbott and Costello running the liberals!
@ nick3 I am sitting in my unreal world and thinking you would really love to join us. Also you just might like to shit stir a wee bit

@nicko, the assumptions you make about the people that contribute to forum topics are staggering. its interesting the way you define yourself. think about that nicko.

@naku, in an odd way i think its a pity costello didn't get the gig as PM as somehow I reckon he would have been way better than howard, krudd and gillard ............. and light years ahead of abbott. its abbott's dishonesty that really pisses me off and a big part of it is his strategy of hiding from proper scrutiny.

somehow i have a sense of history repeating itself here .... everyone thought krudd was the great saviour and we all found out he was a flawed egomaniac so what will abbott turn out to be?

If you have some time this is a good read:
http://www.independentaustralia.net/2013/politics/a-fair-go-for-prime-mi...

Its biased towards the left but the point is problematic systemic right wing propaganda perpetuated by virtually all mainstream media, and the end point of the argument is lets decide the election on an even playing field if this is even possible. Ie decide the next election on the merits of the runners versus the power of their media influence (or, more notably, the media influence on them). Hope you have a good read and keep an open mind.

Interesting seeing the Coalition's NBN proposal unveiled yesterday, and Turnbull's subsequent interview on the 7.30 Report. I think the Coalition have opened themselves up for quite a bit of criticism here, which may present an opportunity for the Labour Party to capitalise on.

Abbott and Turnbull - talk about an uneasy relationship. Turnbull slipped the leadership knife in yesterday with a crap NBN policy the details of which Tony didn't understand other than it was cheaper but that Malcolm knew would be hated by the experts.

The policy's poor reception together with the government's triumphant trip to China makes this week a red letter one for the ALP. In time it may be seen as the week that Labor's fortunes turned for the better.

How about Abbott trumpeting Turnbull at the press conference as "Mr Broadband"?

Reminded me of a clueless footy-Dad triumphantly announcing his son's latest achievements in the Under 12's.

And did anyone else notice where the press conference was held?

Hmmpph - Fox Studios. Bewdyiful.

Never get between Turnbull and a shot at leading the Coalition again.