The Necessity of Reparation for Historic Injustices
swellnet crew are totally stoked to sound out Battle of the Bands for Reconciliation Week.
https://www.sbs.com.au/nitv/nitv-news/article/desert-school-of-rock-stri...
Salute these Heavy Glam Rockin' Gromz...
Scream Louder...Ain't no kidz missin' out on this School Lesson...and the Winner is School of Rock!
Mulga Bore ~ It's a 'Big Train'....Here it Comes...Play it Super Loud to wake up yer Town!
indo-dreaming wrote:
For someone who's punched down on the first nations people of this country, Indo, this video and it's message must be awfully confusing for you? So what is your stance? You're either all in, like dear Novis here, on all things Indigenous Australia, or you're picking and choosing your moral stance.
As for the video. She made some great points, i loved her compassion, and her passion.....just a little bit of a shame that in the 7 minutes she didn't once show even a little bit of empathy towards the Palestinians in Gaza who are,...err...also suffering? Fair to say on a much larger scale. I'm sure it wasn't intentional though. Probably just forgot right!
There’s another reason she would be for the Jews over the Palestinians ;)
Lawyers & Land Rights ya Say...ashsam...also in the news up our way today...
Qld Govt was set to sell off Noosa NP to them WSR Surfline Stewards this Month...
https://www.dts.qld.gov.au/sport/world-surfing-reserves#:~:text=Current%....
Judges rule Kabi Kabi Gromz can now officially snake Pet Dogs in Noosa NP LineUp.
Can even resource your Wave if they're hungry enough!
https://nit.com.au/17-06-2024/12022/kabi-kabi-people-recognised-as-nativ...
https://www.thechronicle.com.au/news/queensland/what-sunshine-coast-nati...
Well chalked cue is our TBB!
Sunshine Coast is screwed
ashsam wrote:Sunshine Coast is screwed
Why?
Yeah I’m also interested. What’s wrong with it? Planning on visiting next month.
southernraw wrote:ashsam wrote:Sunshine Coast is screwed
Why?
@ashsam?
Waiting for an explanation please.
Figure it out Paul.
You didn't ask about this comment below, figure it out?
There’s another reason she would be for the Jews over the Palestinians ;)
Sunshine coast?? Why is the sunshine coast screwed? Carn mate. You claim you're a big 6foot 3 man. Surely you can stand by your comments and spell it out a little clearer as an anonymous poster on a website.
You commented that the sunshine coast is screwed straight underneath the links TBB posted about native title recognition on the Sunny Coast. What did you mean by that?
ashsam wrote:Voice is dead anyway no politician will try that again.
sometime around Easter, SA ignored the guff and just put a Voice in place;
recommendations for our first community by our first community.
Without the politics, it was basically a gentle and largely indifferent affair.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-06-13/sa-voice-appointment/103974646
Look at Mt Warning Paul. If sympathetic wokers like you get their way we will need to get permission to mow our lawn lol ;)
Pretty disappointing attitude @ashsam but each to their own.
Also a shame you'll happily throw little barbs out there but won't actually stand up and write clearly what you really think. A bit hard to have a conversation when you won't put your real thoughts down.
Don't mind you calling me by name, but at least pop your own name to your posts so i can return the favour.
Great stuff @basesix.
They call him Bruce …..Brrruuuuuuce
Brucey! Cheers Supa. Not a bad bloke Bruce. Just disagree with some of his thoughts on this particular issue but all good.
Hope ya well Supa!!
haha, Robo the Bruce.
I prefer Brian ;)
SA has lost the plot
haha, yep, you got our number Brian, we won't be able to mow our lawns or anything..
had woofters since 1975, business and infrastructure all just fell over, and our beaches are full.. certainly can't get a 2 acre block near surf and a relaxed town for 50k..
(god I bet tassies feel a pang of nostalgic loss when SA is mentioned, now east-coast humpers thrum to their magnificent island. Sorry tassie bros and sistrs, SA is the new maligned paradise ; )
Maybe have a read of what it means Ashsam. It doesn’t change anything for freehold owners like me. (And you, if it happened in Coffs) Life will go on unchanged.
Just as it would have with the voice.
I had a mate, who is a bit conspiracy minded, send me something that Malcom Roberts tweeted about it. He was concerned about my property rights now. I wrote him a song… What are racist, moronic conspiracy theorist politicians good for? Absolutely nothing!
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-06-18/native-title-kabi-kabi-what-it-me...
Be afraid, very afraid Brian. That native title was just part A. They’re heading south.
Exactly @seeds. I could tell he hadn't read it from the get go.
Native Title isn’t a knew thing either thanks to the admirable Mr Eddie Mabo’s efforts in the 90’s. The sky hasn’t fallen has it?
Yeah, i get the feeling the deeper issue ain't native title @seeds. Wink wink. ;)
If Jelly Flater has taught me anything… it’s ;);) lol
hahaha!
We will see, what did they try on in WA Paul for farmers or those with blocks over a certain size, short memory ;)
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-06-21/farmers-hit-out-at-was-new-extort...
https://www.news.com.au/finance/economy/australian-economy/furious-wa-fa...
https://nit.com.au/12-06-2023/6336/farmers-want-controversial-new-cultur...
The new legislation demands landowners obtain permits before undertaking acts such as digging fences and planting trees on properties more than 1,100sqm.
Won't be good for your crop seeds they might want a cut lol ;)
Very funny brian. Very good.
No threat to me.
I think just the word Aboriginal stirs up a deep resentment in you.
Might b something worth exploring within?
....exploring within is a brian busey special ;)
- he's the head honcho of head up arse, got it all figured out haha
lol lolol lololol
;)
https://m.
Sure Paul if you rent or have small Block no worries, look after yourself eh lol
No issues with that name to me, would say you have the issues of the past controlling your views.
Will leave it there you are just fishing for amo.
All good mate. Might not see eye to eye on this but good that yoy are up for backing yourself in. Hopefully this convo opens a new perspective for both of us. Thats what its all about. Have a good one.
No worries Paul.
I would give you my first name but there is a few on here that would go searching for me as know what city I live in, I have a website with my phone/email etc on it.
Don't want B6 or seeds tracking me down, they think they know enough about me now. lol ;)
Giggles do you really believe anyone would bother ? You’re a bit paranoid there mate and being 6’3” 90kg what have you said or done to make you believe anyone would come after you ? Reality is giggles, no offence , but you’re not that important .
Wasn't saying anyone would come after me personally supre lol, ;)
I meant they would search me up as find out who I am.
Wild imagination you got there, going troppo?
Wouldn't be hard to find you though lol ;)
Boomers living in Bali Facebook page. no offence
'community engagement'
10% turnout...
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-03-29/sa-voice-to-parliament-voter-turn...
Albo trying to get his way anyway through his premiers.
So much for the democratic system.
ashsam wrote:Wasn't saying anyone would come after me personally supre lol, ;)
I meant they would search me up as find out who I am.
Wild imagination you got there, going troppo?Wouldn't be hard to find you though lol ;)
Boomers living in Bali Facebook page. no offence
I’ve posted more than once where I live , next time you’re on Lembongan look me up at Tarci bungalows, would love to meet you face to face , don’t panic , just for a friendly chat .
Supafreak wrote:ashsam wrote:Wasn't saying anyone would come after me personally supre lol, ;)
I meant they would search me up as find out who I am.
Wild imagination you got there, going troppo?Wouldn't be hard to find you though lol ;)
Boomers living in Bali Facebook page. no offenceI’ve posted more than once where I live , next time you’re on Lembongan look me up at Tarci bungalows, would love to meet you face to face , don’t panic , just for a friendly chat .
No worries, I know a few Balinese bikies ;) lol = joking
Have you thought about changing lol to gol ?
Bwian eh?
Regards landrights...Mintabie opal township all given eviction notices with no appeal through courts...all gone now and no admittance to non aboriginals.
Retirees kicked out of homes, pretty sure no compensation paid.
Imagine what they must feel, anger, depression etc, ah well nothing to worry about...not!
sameaswas wrote:Regards landrights...Mintabie opal township all given eviction notices with no appeal through courts...all gone now and no admittance to non aboriginals.
Retirees kicked out of homes, pretty sure no compensation paid.
Imagine what they must feel, anger, depression etc, ah well nothing to worry about...not!
“ , pretty sure no compensation paid.”
That seems extremely unlikely..
Pretty sure residents of Mintabie were yearly lease holders not owners.
I used to get sent up there for work. Long time ago. Non aboriginals were only there with permission. It was a completely dry place, no alcohol except for whites and had to be consumed in your residence. The elders controlled the place strictly. There were no social problems. Well no drunkenness or drugs t least. Nearest Police station was Coober Pedy. Last I heard a few years ago, it was out of control, and there was a police station.
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Hi Chin, I was just reading a bit more. It appears in its latter years it was a centre for sly grog and drugs being spread to other dry communities too which lead to the Traditional Owners having an issue with the place.
seeds wrote:Hi Chin, I was just reading a bit more. It appears in its latter years it was a centre for sly grog and drugs being spread to other dry communities too which lead to the Traditional Owners having an issue with the place.
I’ll watch those vids when I’ve got more time seeds, thanks. She was a funny old place, I wouldn’t call it a town, or the pub a pub either, but that was early 90’s. Open cut mining unlike Cooper Pedy. The miners needed two leases, one to scrape the top with a dozer, and the other to push the dirt onto, so miners would buddy up. Everybody was living out of each other’s pockets, anybody who struck it rich left immediately. Once they had scraped a few feet of ground off and got down to opal, one would drive the dozer, pushing a slim cut off the top while the other walked behind, literally picking up opal by hand. Once on the opal they would park a caravan next to the lease and sleep in it to protect the opal bearing ground from poachers, quite often with a rifle sticking out the window. I was repairing a dozer for a guy. I had to stay with him, no other accomodation. One day a Landcruiser showed up, a Chinese guy from Hong Kong got out, with a briefcase full of cash with two bodyguards. They went inside with the guy I was working for, did some business then left. The local indigenous kids would pick through the heap that had been pushed up, the miners allowed it. Sometimes they did Ok from it. Got sent up there several times, it was Ok, no issues, but you meet some very strange people in places like that. People on the run, or people who just can’t live in a normal society, not even little country towns. Shame to hear what’s happened since, it was a special place. Got a mate who delivers food from Adelaide to the APY lands every two weeks. Sometimes they won’t let him go if there’s trouble, too dangerous, which happens regularly.
Worth a watch. Sad times.
https://iview.abc.net.au/show/last-daughter
Uni assignment i did a few years ago. This is my take on things. I'm sure this will ruffle many feathers. I hope so.
Love Blue Diamond x
The Necessity of Reparation for Historic Injustices
Introduction – Compensatory Justice
Disparities between the standards of living of humans on this planet have long been a part of our history on this planet. From the wealthy nations of the West to the developing and undeveloped nations on this globe, the diversity in the quality of life when viewed from a moral standpoint are without a doubt grossly unfair.
In this paper I will look at why historic injustices do require some form of reparation. I take a strong stance that we are more obliged to solve current injustices than to provide reparation for every act of injustice in the past. In doing this I will first investigate the historic injustice of the Aboriginal people of Australia and I will look at the argument that they are entitled to some form of reparation and why.
I will incoroporate some interesting views from Jeremy Waldron, Robert Nozick and others which will help me slowly build to my conclusion that reparation should be in the form of Non Indigenous Australians surrendering some of our priveleges as a form of reparation.
Historic Injustices to Indigenous Australians:
Australia the continent was well inhabited for many years long before white settlement. It is commonly known that in 1788 Australia was colonised as a country under the rule of the British Empire, with total contempt for the fact that it was already inhabited by a native indigenous race of people.
The way the original inhabitants have been treated, including forced assimilation, execution, stolen families and not even allowed to be recognised as citizens for a large part of white Australia’s history are also well known facts. (Poole, 1999,pp114-142)
There exists now a situation where there is a large divide between Aboriginal and non Aboriginal Australian’s that can be traced back to the moment Australia was invaded by English settlers and the brutal and unfair treatment that has followed.
So at this point now, in 2013 what is the just and fair way to make amends for past actions?
I would argue that a moderate to large amount of reparation is overdue for this nation of people, the Aboriginal people. But there are many challenges to this view point especially that of how much reparation, and what sort of compensation.
Past injustices or present suffering?
One of the questions raised in an issue like this is whether it is better to provide compensation or reparation for past deeds, which have already been done in a previous generation and cannot be changed, or whether it is better to now provide assistance to those who are suffering in their current situations and consider that as a form of moral duty.
To understand this we need to delve a little deeper into this issue and hear some differing viewpoints.
Firstly we need to understand what the best way to provide reparation. How do we judge what is the best way of giving back and how much? Jeremy Waldron states “The historic record has a fragility that consists, …in the sheer contingency of what happened in the past” (Waldron,1992,p5 )
This is saying that we can’t trace every single injustice back to the original act therefore reparation for every act would be almost impossible because it would ultimately be guess work.
In this statement he has an objection from Robert Nozick who believes it is in fact possible to address this problem by “changing the present so that it resembles how the past would have looked had the injustice not taken place” (McKenzie, 2013)
This would be a way to ultimately provide maximum reparation, but is it the correct approach? I believe this is a fairly radical approach, although it does have some merits in the fact it would be working in a positive way for indigenous people, I don’t think it is entirely the right way to deal with these issues but it is on the right track.
Waldron argues that it is based on too many unknowns. “The status of counterfactual reasoning about the exercising of human reasoning of human freedom is unclear”(Waldron 1993,p10)
Which leaves the question somewhat open about the sort of reparation that is required, but provides one clear answer to the key question. Both agree that yes, reparation to some extent is required. But how much and in what form?
Another philosopher who leans more towards Waldron’s views is Kymlicka. He is somewhat more straightforward in his assessment that property rights in particular for Aboriginals would create “massive unfairness” and also he maintains the argument “Aboriginal rights must be grounded in concerns about equality and contemporary disadvantage. (McKenzie, 2013) I agree with both these views but I don’t think they provide any active solutions.
The Solution?
So if its not handing back all of Australia’s land to the original inhabitants that is the most appropriate way to deal with past injustices, then what is?
I look at the current country I grew up in, as a white Australian. I ask myself why I never had Aboriginal friends growing up, no understanding of Aboriginal culture and why my basic understanding of Indigenous Australians is mostly 200 years old. I look at our flag, a symbol of a nation that stole a country from its original inhabitants, with no recognition of the Indigenous people at all on it. I see that Australia considered Indigenous people as less than people until only 40 years ago and I see the way that Indigenous Australians live a completely separate life to the way of life I know as an Australian. I see that the only indigenous politician I am aware of is a former Olympian and it is because of this fact of her sporting status that I know this. I see no collective power or representation of Indigenous Australians and I see non Indigenous Australians,( a culture built on a history of stealing a land and mistreating its people) still taking, taking as much out of this land as they can, with little to no regard of sharing or giving to the original inhabitants. I see a government that says lots of words about ‘closing the gap’ and bringing the living standards of non- indigenous and indigenous Australians closer together, but apart from nice words, there is no conviction, no follow through, just assimilation , and all that still remains are injustices.
As stated by Sparrow, “Continuity gives rise to responsibility on part of present generations of Australians for our history”.(McKenzie,2013). Although deeds happened in the past beyond our control, what we do now to either ignore, or rectify these issues will reflect on us in history. So if we choose to do nothing, we are contributing to the history of the mistreatment of non- indigenous Australians. And this is simply unacceptable in my opinion.
Conclusion
So what is fair? I believe that the way forward is a surrendering of some of our privileges as non- indigenous Australians. The simple fact is it was morally wrong without a doubt what has happened in the past. And it is also morally wrong without a doubt to ignore these facts and not offer some form of reparation in the present. But how much?
I think that going back to Robert Nozick’s argument is a start. I think Nozick is wrong to make the present resemble the past in every aspect. But I do think that it would be reasonable to restore some aspects of the way things should be. The things that happened in the past were out of our control and we can’t go back to changing the way things were. But we could change the way things are.
For some examples. Why not give at least 50% of political power to indigenous people? It surely would be a fair thing to do considering this is their country. Media control. 50 percent. Industry. Realestate. The list goes on. Why do we not acknowledge the indigenous people on our flag, or better still use their flag? Why is Australia still a part of the Commonwealth when it serves little purpose to any of us and serves as a constant reminder to Indigenous Australians that they are still controlled by the original invaders. These to me are fairly simple reparations that would have minimal impact on Australia as a whole. Perhaps, it would alter the way we live but I think it is our responsibility, morally to forfeit some of our privileges for the greater good. Basically a little bit goes a long way.
In closing, it is a fact that a huge injustice occurred to the Indigenous population and suffering continues to this day. There is no easy solution to such a burden of pain. I believe the only solutions are for the non- Indigenous population to take responsibility and sacrifice our own way of life to bring about an overall equality. Sacrifice is not an easy word. But it all comes down to right and wrong. We are in a position to give, in this current generation. What are we so scared to lose, that was never ours in the first place??
Bibliography
McKenzie,C.”Prof” (2013), Lecture, Historic Injustices and Indigenous Rights, Macquarie University
Poole, R. (1999). Nation and Identity.Routledge, London, pp.114-142
Waldron,J. (1992). ‘Superseding Historic Injustice’. Ethics, 103 (1), 4-28
References
Poole, R. (1999). Nation and Identity.Routledge, London, pp.114-142
Waldron,J. (1992). ‘Superseding Historic Injustice’. Ethics, 103 (1), 4-28