The United States(!) of A
Exxotixjeff wrote:basesix wrote:cheers guys, feels fantastic to have a spare couple of days off, having fully recovered. has left me with slightly idle hands, but. nice problem to have.
Glad to hear you’re fully recovered from whatever you were recovering from.
So hang on
Two MAGAs were releasing toads into the deep swamp, in the Deep South,
While listening to “Yesterday all my troubles seemed so far away “ by the Beatles. .
Yes it does make sense.
Stick with nowhere man!
here it is remastered....Your song.I bet you are proud John wrote it about you.
Exxotixjeff wrote:basesix wrote:cheers guys, feels fantastic to have a spare couple of days off, having fully recovered. has left me with slightly idle hands, but. nice problem to have.
Glad to hear you’re fully recovered from whatever you were recovering from.
So hang on
Two MAGAs were releasing toads into the deep swamp, in the Deep South,
While listening to “Yesterday all my troubles seemed so far away “ by the Beatles. .
Yes it does make sense.
Stick with nowhere man!
here it is remastered....Your song.I bet you are proud John wrote it about you.
just in case you missed the first one!
adam12 wrote:@Indo,
"Israel is now in the best position they have been for decades especially with four years of Trump support"Now there's another very debatable one sided view. You're so prolific with this shit.
Best position?
To do what?
They are a pariah.
Their leadership wanted war criminals, the State on Genocide charges in the World Court, their economy in the shitter, their enemies still there, still capable, rearming.
The Al Qassam looked pretty fighting fit to me. Iran building nukes, the proxies all ready to fight on, renewed vigor inspired by more wanton Israeli slaughter.
Millions around the world marching against the State of Israel, the gentile world and many, many Jews in fierce disagreement and condemnation.
Israel probably the most despised State for it's blatant disregard of human rights, probably more so than Russia or any other in world affairs currently.
And four years backing from Trump, a fucking lunatic, seems brain damaged to me, what a guy to have in your corner.
They are only in a great position to steal more land, kill more innocents, commit more war crimes.
But, they have exponentially increased the threat and danger not just to Jews and others in Israel, but to Jews around the world.
And if a real war starts, not a proxy or insurgent one.
The Americans have wasted a lot of money and munitions in another unsuccessful attempt to put down Palestinian insurgents. Another failure, for both Israel and the US.
They can't even defeat Hamas.
So while the real estate prospects have improved, a little, they still have to bulldoze it, the Palestinians are still there, human rights, claim for self determination and Statehood strong as ever, I would contend right now they are in a worse position than they have been for a long time, maybe even since 1948.And I'm disappointed you haven't used your history qualifications to bite on my little question I asked you and come up with an answer.
I know you have a lot on your plate, defending war crimes and all, so I'll give you some more time and a little hint.
Remember if you can, the first comment I ever made to you on these threads, years ago, the first comment I ever made on these threads, a short sentence, six words, had to school you from the get go @Indo, Still trying today which is probably a sadder reflection on me than you.
Take your time.
Think.
And PS, sociopathy ain't autism.
Study history.
The Jews weren't there first.
Their DNA wasn't there first.
I meant from a security position.
Before Israel was being strangled by Irans ring of fire, and like i said to Andy things could have been much much worse than 7th Oct, if Hezbollah hit first with their version of 7th Oct or at the same time with their attack it could have been way way worse.
In more detail.
Hamas: are no where near the threat they once were they have gone from a fairly well organised military unit with battalions to an unorganized guerrilla army, their military infrastructure, command centres etc is pretty close to completely destroyed, main tunnels destroyed, they barely have any rockets left. their supply line going into Gaza is cut off and Israel will have to control it in the future to some degree so will never be able to rebuild to what they were, their weapon's and rockets manufacturing sites are also gone,
Pretty much all their top leaders including Sinwar and Ismail Haniyeh, are dead (taken out in Iran showing they are not safe anywhere), much of their mid to lower leaders are killed, 20,000 fighters dead, yeah sure its said they have recruited thousand's more, but they are not experienced fighter's and dont have the supply of ammunition etc they once had.
And yes while they havent been wearing military uniforms in battle(just one of the very long list of war crimes you love to ignore) they have brought them out for propaganda appearances at hostage's release and yes they aren't starving they are very well feed, but no you can not judge the strength of a military organization based on a a few hamas members at a propaganda appearance.
Yes they are not destroyed, but they are shadow of what they were and wont be able to re build in the same way they were allowed, even if Israel doesn't go back to fighting.(which i think is maybe unlikely)
BTW. In the last six months IDF fighters have not come up against Hamas fighters in numbers they once did not only because many are dead or dont have ammunition supplies they once had, but because they know they are no match for the IDF, they now focus on bobby traps and have survived hiding in refugee areas just trying to avoid fighting they are complete cowards
And UNWRA is now being exposed for what it is basically an arm of Hamas Israel finally banned them last week from operating within Israel something that should have been done years ago, and USA wont fund them again, hopefully they will collapse
"Future looks dire for UN Palestinian refugee agency, says UNRWA chief"
https://apnews.com/article/unrwa-palestinians-israel-ban-philippe-lazzar...
Hezbollah in Lebanon : Who were a much much stronger group are not out but they have been severally weakened 80% of rockets have said to have been destroyed including serious ballistic missiles, they too lost all their top leaders including Hassan Nasrallah that was/is huge in itself.(again way under ground thinking he was safe, but no, never safe from Israel)
The pager attack severally wounded a large number of higher position fighters leaders at all levels, a few also killed, many lost hands and eyes etc many will never be able to fight again, and Israel is totally in their heads everyday they look in the mirror with reminders of how much smarter and stronger IDF and Mossad are and they remind everyone around them to this fact daily with visual injuries, and every time they answer their phone etc they will think twice could this happen again.
The fall of Assad now mean Iran can not resupply Hezbollah this is huge in itself, it could change but HTS were enemies of Iran and Hezbollah.
Israel also destroyed a major underground ballistic missiles manufacturing site in Syria used by Hezzbolah and so much military equipment left by Assad has been destroyed stopping it falling into the wrong hands.
Houthis: Hard to say they have been hit by IDF and USA regularly though.
Iran: Right now are totally exposed with barely any ground to air defence and the system's they use have proven to be out of date and Russia who supplies them need them themselves so Iran is likely to be venerable for some time.
Hence why they have retaliated to Israels last air strike
The fall of ASAD in Syria also meant the systems there are now taken out opening up a shorter safer flight path for Israel to attack Iran.
Yeah sure they have the Nuclear program, lets just wait and see hopefully in the next six months Israel & USA hit those targets.
Oh and Trump just upped the pressure on Iran again with sanctions etc
Two state solution: Its done and dusted, 7th of October was the final nail in the coffin, the risk to Israel security is way to high, even most of Israel's left can see it's not realistic, nobody wants it Israelis or Palestinian's, its just a thing people and politician's in the west love to bang on about to take a kind of neutral position, but its never going to happen.
What did Hamas achieve?
They wanted Hezbollah and Iran to join in and smash Israel but they didn't, it was more cosmetic Hezzbolah just fired non ballistic rockets for months trying to look like they were supporting Hamas.
They didnt stop the Abraham accords they are on the table still, although im sure it will be an up down roller coaster ride if Saudi Arabia ever signs on. (just as much in their interest as it is Israels)
They got some terrorist released from Israeli prison's, they got some nutters in the west like you simping for them, that's about it.
They did bring death and destruction to Gaza though, some even claim it as victory because they kinda survived (although maybe not over yet)
Fuck that a low bar for victory, id hate to see a loss.
Israels economy: yeah sure every country in a war hurts, Ukraine is the same deal Israel like Ukraine didn't want a war but had no choice, they were both attacked and now aim to remove the threats
Bibis position: his popularity in Israel has improved after success on Hezbollah and Iran, and recently his government was at the risk of falling apart with the far right not being happy with the hostage deals, but Trump idea on Gaza should help get them in toe.
BTW Trumps idea is kinda crazy but It doesn't need to actually happen just the suggestion is good enough to maybe get Arab countries to step up or can you imagine what Hamas or the people in Gaza are thinking right now, they will be fighting among themselves saying we really fucked up, Hamas brought this on us.
Just having the support of Trump and USA is also huge, but yes there will be times when Israel wont always get all it wants from Trump there will be ups and down with Trump in the next four years for Israel
But the future for Israel is far far more positive than it was 1 year ago,
etarip wrote:sypkan wrote:"Your analogy of the Education Department to a stinking fish ,
What would you call the whole Musk SpaceX , Tesla handouts, Chinese government,illegal hacking of government departments by an unelected billionaire, conflicts of interest, ?"I see all the hysterics making this comparison, and it's a reasonable question to ask...
however, without the impediment of being hysterical... it's a dumb comparison...
you see, all these tesla, spacex, etc. endeavours and agreements have been running for years - even under the biden administration - so there's that...
and they are transparent - which is the exact opposite of the USaid arrangements
and, no one cared when elon was on the side of the democrats, he was their little darling climate change saviour... that's hypocrisy!
and, whilst I personally see the mars stuff as a billionaire ball swinging exercise. anyone with any knowledge an appreciation of anything... understands that the space race mk1 was an amazing mechanism to speed up development of much of the tech. that even we plebs all use today...
now we're in space race mk11, and NASA outsources shit - whilst I vehemently opposed much of neoliliberalism - it's obvious to any objective observer, that maybe elon inc. can do shit faster and cheaper than NASA... so it simply makes sense...
as to 'illegal hacking'
trump was voted in to do a job
elon was hired to do a job...
he was given the permission and clearances to do that job - so nothing illegal, and no hacking
how the fuck do you suggest you audit something, without actual access to the records and figures?
weird...
“Given the clearances”
That’s not how the process works. Especially when that clearances is extended to others.
Read something the other day that talked about the attractiveness of some of these (uncleared) punters to foreign espionage and recruitment.
As for Elon’s hard on for holding USAID and other elements of government ‘accountable’, it’s a sheet of thin ice he’s standing on as a government prime contractor (SpaceX, Starlink etc). He’ll want to make sure that the GOP stays in power for the foreseeable future.
You don’t have to look far to find massive gouging and over-quoting / under-delivering in any of those projects. Reality is that government usually doesn’t look that hard, or it’s just accepted as a sunk cost, or the cost of enforcement is too much. But, and I’ve seen this happen, if you want to make an example of someone, those examples can be found in almost any major contract and can be used to disqualify future tenders.
Finally, Elon was ‘hired’ for a government advisory body (not a department) with no confirmation process. Incredible amount of power and influence. Unelected.
Weren’t you the loudest voice on this forum that Kamala Harris’ nomination was ‘undemocratic’?
I'll just stick with you etarip, that other dude is high on emotion and hysterics, not so much on thinking...
no doubt trump is bending the rules at every turn - it's trump after all...
but I think most people - and you - can appreciate it's no mean feat he's undertaking, revolutionary of sorts, with so much 'resistance' in place...
unprecedented you might say
and, the administration before him are responsible for some pretty twisted and twisting of shit too...
perspective only will determine who was / is more twisted
as to the government contracts thing, you're dead right about elon and thin ice...
'precedents' and all that...
good
as I said to jeffy, the difference is, transparency... the shadow government the machine has facilitated beforehand had clearly gotten out of control...
time for a purge
well past time...
as you have mentioned, and others above, government contracts etc. are in a world of their own... I've seen it myself as well...
what's the issue with calling it out?
not before time it would seem for most people
as to kamala, that's a pretty lame comparison to draw, elon was appointed...
so was kamala...
and, if we want to talk about non elected entities, lobbying, agendas...
tax payer dollars...
tax avoidance...
shadowing figures...
the ngo mega complex...
let's cut to the chase
https://x.com/Rothmus/status/1887032594346242170
the 'unelected' one, that has had free reign for decades...
versus the new bros. in town
that's what's really going on here
anyone only willing to talk about one...
or any one thing in isolation
is being disingenuous at best
quadzilla wrote:just in case you missed the first one!
Stick to your favourite war thread angry ghoul guy.
like a lot of things it really shouldn't be so partisan
it's the people versus the system...
trump makes it polarizing
but once again with all things trumpy...
people are finding themselves a bit all over the shop
such is contemporary politics...
sypkan wrote:etarip wrote:sypkan wrote:"Your analogy of the Education Department to a stinking fish ,
What would you call the whole Musk SpaceX , Tesla handouts, Chinese government,illegal hacking of government departments by an unelected billionaire, conflicts of interest, ?"I see all the hysterics making this comparison, and it's a reasonable question to ask...
however, without the impediment of being hysterical... it's a dumb comparison...
you see, all these tesla, spacex, etc. endeavours and agreements have been running for years - even under the biden administration - so there's that...
and they are transparent - which is the exact opposite of the USaid arrangements
and, no one cared when elon was on the side of the democrats, he was their little darling climate change saviour... that's hypocrisy!
and, whilst I personally see the mars stuff as a billionaire ball swinging exercise. anyone with any knowledge an appreciation of anything... understands that the space race mk1 was an amazing mechanism to speed up development of much of the tech. that even we plebs all use today...
now we're in space race mk11, and NASA outsources shit - whilst I vehemently opposed much of neoliliberalism - it's obvious to any objective observer, that maybe elon inc. can do shit faster and cheaper than NASA... so it simply makes sense...
as to 'illegal hacking'
trump was voted in to do a job
elon was hired to do a job...
he was given the permission and clearances to do that job - so nothing illegal, and no hacking
how the fuck do you suggest you audit something, without actual access to the records and figures?
weird...
“Given the clearances”
That’s not how the process works. Especially when that clearances is extended to others.
Read something the other day that talked about the attractiveness of some of these (uncleared) punters to foreign espionage and recruitment.
As for Elon’s hard on for holding USAID and other elements of government ‘accountable’, it’s a sheet of thin ice he’s standing on as a government prime contractor (SpaceX, Starlink etc). He’ll want to make sure that the GOP stays in power for the foreseeable future.
You don’t have to look far to find massive gouging and over-quoting / under-delivering in any of those projects. Reality is that government usually doesn’t look that hard, or it’s just accepted as a sunk cost, or the cost of enforcement is too much. But, and I’ve seen this happen, if you want to make an example of someone, those examples can be found in almost any major contract and can be used to disqualify future tenders.
Finally, Elon was ‘hired’ for a government advisory body (not a department) with no confirmation process. Incredible amount of power and influence. Unelected.
Weren’t you the loudest voice on this forum that Kamala Harris’ nomination was ‘undemocratic’?I'll just stick with you etarip, that other dude is high on emotion and hysterics, not so much on thinking...
no doubt trump is bending the rules at every turn - it's trump after all...
but I think most people - and you - can appreciate it's no mean feat he's undertaking, revolutionary of sorts, with so much 'resistance' in place...
unprecedented you might say
and, the administration before him are responsible for some pretty twisted and twisting of shit too...
perspective only will determine who was / is more twisted
as to the government contracts thing, you're dead right about elon and thin ice...
'precedents' and all that...
good
as I said to jeffy, the difference is, transparency... the shadow government the machine has facilitated beforehand had clearly gotten out of control...
time for a purge
well past time...
as you have mentioned, and others above, government contracts etc. are in a world of their own... I've seen it myself as well...
what's the issue with calling it out?
not before time it would seem for most people
as to kamala, that's a pretty lame comparison to draw, elon was appointed...
so was kamala...
and, if we want to talk about non elected entities, lobbying, agendas...
tax payer dollars...
tax avoidance...
shadowing figures...
the ngo mega complex...
let's cut to the chase
https://x.com/Rothmus/status/1887032594346242170
the 'unelected' one, that has had free reign for decades...
versus the new bros. in town
that's what really going on here
anyone only willing to talk about one...
is being disingenuous at best
Your the high guys,
MAGA thinks because Trump won the election he can do anything he wants to,
WRONG
Ignorance 101 , he cant break the law and change anything in the constitution he wants to. That’s why he keeps losing in court.
Sorry if that’s a bit confusing for you cheerleaders .
And you might find Kamala was actually elected into the government in an election.
But you think Musk was too hey ??????
You really do draw a desperately long bow ,
Thinking they can do anything they want to,
That is what they’re pushing for, but at the moment the legal system is keeping Trump and his admirers obeying the rules.
Oh can we change our votes ?
I C E is already releasing arrested undocumented immigrants from detention, because there’s not enough room , and it’s illegal to hold people in indefinite detention without trial if their countries won’t take them back.
Exxotixjeff wrote:I C E is already releasing arrested undocumented immigrants from detention, because there’s not enough room , and it’s illegal to hold people in indefinite detention without trial if their countries won’t take them back.
Yep it's going to take time to clean up the mess Biden left, Roman wasn't built in a day.
Golf of America Presidential Fireworks Display
https://www.independent.co.uk/tv/news/trump-dc-plane-crash-golf-speech-b...
https://www.facebook.com/GolfDigest/videos/two-shots-collide-mid-air/519...
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/wrel83_xFyg
Just humour him...
Rome not Roman :P
indo-dreaming wrote:Exxotixjeff wrote:I C E is already releasing arrested undocumented immigrants from detention, because there’s not enough room , and it’s illegal to hold people in indefinite detention without trial if their countries won’t take them back.
Yep it's going to take time to clean up the mess Biden left, Roman wasn't built in a day.
I think Biden was arresting and deporting the same amounts as Trump was, and the Republicans didn’t want anything to do with securing the border under Biden , So yeah it is all about the Trump show,
and then you don’t hear about the step back,
E g Tariffs , invasions.
If tariffs were so great like Trump and his true believers are saying, why the back out
Canada made the border plans back in November,
and Trump wanted 10000 Mexican troops on the border,
When there were already 15000
Claudia Sheinbaum couldn’t stop laughing,
Nor could Putin , whose been showing nude photos of Melania Trump on state TV , to humiliate your guy .
The arrests and deportations of documented and undocumented immigrants,
Obviously raised a point of interest for you.
They’ve had pre-sales
soggydog wrote:They’ve had pre-sales
https://www.instagram.com/reel/DEH_RusxyM8/?igsh=MTM0YzE3a3BwYzY5NA==
Obviously an anti Semite SG....
velocityjohnno wrote:"On Thursday, Israel Katz, Israel’s foreign minister, ordered the IDF to prepare for the “voluntary” emigration of Palestinians from the Gaza Strip, including “special arrangements” for sea and air departures."
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2025/02/06/israel-considers-sendi...
Just wrong.
This is just a next level of madness. Send them to Somalia so a new generation of terrorists can be created. Who’s coming up with these ideas!?
I love it how you people take this weird Jewish sect of less than 1,000 world wide that believe Jews cant return to Israel until some messiah return's and then use them to back up your anti Israel views.
Here educate yourselfs
Neturei Karta
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neturei_Karta
"Neturei Karta (NK), an international ultra-Orthodox anti-Zionist group with a strong base of support in the U.S., views itself as the religious Jewish authority on Zionism and Israel and claims to “pray for the peaceful dismantlement of the state of Israel.”
Founded in 1938, “Neturei Karta” (Aramaic for “Guardians of the Gates”) opposes the contemporary state of Israel because it does not believe that the Jewish people have the right to self-determination and because only God can restore Jewish sovereignty in the land of Israel by bringing the Messiah. NK has a very extreme agenda and has regularly aligned with international anti-Semites, Islamic extremists and groups that advocate violence against Israel. In recent years, leaders of Neturei Karta have met with Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad on several occasions in New York and Tehran, as well as leaders of Hamas in Gaza and Hezbollah in Lebanon.
The group’s participation in a “Holocaust Review” conference in Tehran in December 2006, which was attended by a host of international Holocaust deniers, demonstrated the group’s willingness to meet with the vilest of extremists.
In 2012, leaders of Neturei Karta met with highranking Hezbollah officials on at least two occasions. In March, several NK leaders participated in a “Global March to Jerusalem” and laid a wreath at the tomb of Hezbollah terrorist Imad Mugniyeh. Then in June, some of those same leaders attended a conference in Lebanon about the IsraeliPalestinian conflict and met with Hezbollah leader Sheikh Nabil al-Kauk. Leaders of Neturei Karta also met with NK leaders in Beirut during the Global March to Jerusalem in 2012 18 Ahmadinejad while he was in New York during the UN General Assembly in September of that year.
Neturei Karta’s association with these groups for photo ops and discussions about Israel and Zionism – in which they dress in traditional Hasidic garb and are often described simply as “Jewish Rabbis” – indicate the lengths Neturei Karta is willing to go to prop up Israel’s enemies. Indeed, Neturei Karta leaders have even called on the Jewish community to dialogue with Hamas and apologize for “stealing their land.”
Leaders of Neturei Karta, specifically Dovid Feldman and Yisroel Dovid Weiss, the North American spokesperson for NK, display a commitment to proving to international Muslim and Arab audiences that Jews don’t support Israel. Both appear regularly for interviews on Al-Jazeera and Press TV, Iran’s government-run English language satellite news network. In an interview with Al Jazeera in March 2012, Weiss claimed: “Zionism has created rivers of blood...this is against the will of the Almighty and this is not what it means to be a Jew.”
This has led the more mainstream ultra-Orthodox community to join the broader Jewish community, to disavow and repudiate Neturei Karta. Indeed, Neturei Karta’s views are not in any way representative of the vast majority of the Jewish community. While these denouncements are important, it is still likely that the average passer-by who witnesses Neturei Karta’s participation at an anti-Israel protest surmises that many Jews who dress similarly agree with this position. And, while it is true that the ultra-Orthodox community largely disapproves of Israel’s secular government and liberal policies, the vast majority thoroughly abhors and rejects Neturei Karta’s ideology.
Neturei Karta’s leaders in the U.S. (most of whom are based in Brooklyn and Monsey, New York) regularly participate in anti-Israel demonstrations in order to lend a Jewish face to the protest. In interviews and at these events, NK leaders have not held back in their vitriolic rhetoric against the state of Israel, describing Israelis as Nazis, calling Israel a “cancer” and accusing Zionists of controlling the media.
While Neturei Karta’s primary motto can be boiled down to “Judaism does not equal Zionism,” leaders of the group also allege that a Jewish person’s support for Zionism essentially strips him of his Jewish-ness. During a protest outside a speech by Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu at the Council on Foreign Relations’ New York office in July 2010, members of Neturei Karta chanted, “Netanyahu is not a Jew!”
NK leaders participate in a range of anti-Israel programs and events on campus, including weeklong 19 programs like Israeli Apartheid Week, protests that took place during Israel’s “Operation Pillar of Defense” in November 2012 and as the Jewish representatives at “interfaith” events about Israel/Palestine organized by pro-Palestinian student groups on campus.
Recent activity:
2018: Representatives of Neturai Karta met with Hezbollah in Lebanon and presented a gift for Hassan Nasrallah.
2017: Representatives of Neturai Karta attended pro-Palestinian conference in Tehran in which Iran’s Supreme Leader Ayatollah Khamenei called the Jewish state a “fake country,” “a dirty chapter in history,” and a “cancerous tumor” that should be confronted “step by step” in order to achieve “the full liberation of Palestine.”
https://www.adl.org/resources/backgrounder/neturei-karta
There is also many muslims that support Israel, it doesn't really prove much either way.
Muslim supporters of Israel
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_supporters_of_Israel
@indo “The pager attack severally wounded a large number of higher position fighters leaders at all levels, a few also killed, many lost hands and eyes etc many will never be able to fight again, and Israel is totally in their heads everyday they look in the mirror with reminders of how much smarter and stronger IDF and Mossad are and they remind everyone around them to this fact daily with visual injuries, and every time they answer their phone etc they will think twice could this happen again.”
Whoa
This guys pretty obscure too
Fliplid wrote:"‘fuck me these guys want to bring HOA to Gaza’, haha."
Yeah, they've got their own acronym, BOT, sounds like it will be a good little earner too so would be perfect for a Sovereign Wealth Fund to invest in, shame America doesn't have one.......oh hang on a sec.......
Haha. Yep, and as cherry on the top you can muddy the financial waters by transacting with crypto through the national digital asset reserve.
found an excerpt from Dogecast Episode 1
sypkan wrote:"Your analogy of the Education Department to a stinking fish ,
What would you call the whole Musk SpaceX , Tesla handouts, Chinese government,illegal hacking of government departments by an unelected billionaire, conflicts of interest, ?"I see all the hysterics making this comparison, and it's a reasonable question to ask...
however, without the impediment of being hysterical... it's a dumb comparison...
you see, all these tesla, spacex, etc. endeavours and agreements have been running for years - even under the biden administration - so there's that...
and they are transparent - which is the exact opposite of the USaid arrangements
and, no one cared when elon was on the side of the democrats, he was their little darling climate change saviour... that's hypocrisy!
and, whilst I personally see the mars stuff as a billionaire ball swinging exercise. anyone with any knowledge an appreciation of anything... understands that the space race mk1 was an amazing mechanism to speed up development of much of the tech. that even we plebs all use today...
now we're in space race mk11, and NASA outsources shit - whilst I vehemently opposed much of neoliliberalism - it's obvious to any objective observer, that maybe elon inc. can do shit faster and cheaper than NASA... so it simply makes sense...
as to 'illegal hacking'
trump was voted in to do a job
elon was hired to do a job...
he was given the permission and clearances to do that job - so nothing illegal, and no hacking
how the fuck do you suggest you audit something, without actual access to the records and figures?
weird...
Ok mate, they are hackers. But, if I was to do the job I would also bring a team of 20 yo data mining, freakish hackers. Let’s be realistic, you have to do this job quickly, who will you do it with? 60yo bureaucrats?
flollo wrote:sypkan wrote:"Your analogy of the Education Department to a stinking fish ,
What would you call the whole Musk SpaceX , Tesla handouts, Chinese government,illegal hacking of government departments by an unelected billionaire, conflicts of interest, ?"I see all the hysterics making this comparison, and it's a reasonable question to ask...
however, without the impediment of being hysterical... it's a dumb comparison...
you see, all these tesla, spacex, etc. endeavours and agreements have been running for years - even under the biden administration - so there's that...
and they are transparent - which is the exact opposite of the USaid arrangements
and, no one cared when elon was on the side of the democrats, he was their little darling climate change saviour... that's hypocrisy!
and, whilst I personally see the mars stuff as a billionaire ball swinging exercise. anyone with any knowledge an appreciation of anything... understands that the space race mk1 was an amazing mechanism to speed up development of much of the tech. that even we plebs all use today...
now we're in space race mk11, and NASA outsources shit - whilst I vehemently opposed much of neoliliberalism - it's obvious to any objective observer, that maybe elon inc. can do shit faster and cheaper than NASA... so it simply makes sense...
as to 'illegal hacking'
trump was voted in to do a job
elon was hired to do a job...
he was given the permission and clearances to do that job - so nothing illegal, and no hacking
how the fuck do you suggest you audit something, without actual access to the records and figures?
weird...
Ok mate, they are hackers. But, if I was to do the job I would also bring a team of 20 yo data mining, freakish hackers. Let’s be realistic, you have to do this job quickly, who will you do it with? 60yo bureaucrats?
Yes because it is illegal !
“Trump was voted in to do a job “
Yeah not to illegaly access everyone in the country, private and highly secure data .
At the whim of some billionaire blowin .
Sounds like Kindergarten U S Constitutional law .
Trump and Musk can do whatever they want, because a lot of people really like them a lot.
“ Here educate yourselfs “ ……shouldn’t that be yourselves ? sorry I just found that funny . I’ll go back to my corner now .
I didn’t say anything about this being legal or illegal. I’ll leave that assessment to others. I’m purely saying that the most efficient way to do this job is by brining in a team of 20yo hackers. It doesn’t make it right, it’s probably illegal but I understand why.
How funny was this moment. :D
flollo wrote:I didn’t say anything about this being legal or illegal. I’ll leave that assessment to others. I’m purely saying that the most efficient way to do this job is by brining in a team of 20yo hackers. It doesn’t make it right, it’s probably illegal but I understand why.
That’s why they have to do the job fast, because they know it’s illegal.
@Indo,
JFC I've got to get off this thread, how are the length of some of these posts!
Too much reading doing my head in. I wonder if Stu actually reads all this shit (hi Stu), bet he's sick to death of us, and a few others just quietly if he has to wade through all this every day or so.
OK I read what you just posted and appreciate the time and effort.
I still think you are a whatever, but whatever.
I will concede that you do seem to have matured and tempered yourself compared to previous @Indo's so maybe all the shit you cop here, self inflicted a lot of it, may have had some benefit, maybe.
Anyway, read that detailed post. Their enemies have been weakened before. But they are still there.
It is hard to gauge how much they have been depleted from what I see, no doubts they have, but I was shocked, and I think Bibi and the world was a bit shocked by those hostage handovers. Al Qassam standing there brandishing those sophisticated seized weapons, and they might not be strong, but they did kinda look it.
They will fight to the last man.
And despite the positives you spin, some valid points, in my whole life I've never seen things get better there. And now Trump? US on the ground? Trying to "relocate" 2 million people who don't want to go?
Apart from that being a war crime, he'd probably have more hope of moving the Israeli's out.
Can't see any of that making this better, for either side.
Now let me try to put this first rights issue to you and make my point so I can move on.
Glad to hear you say you open your mind.
Let's see.
But first you need to step back in time in the Levant, through human history, way back, before religion, before Moses was a boy, before the Canaanites and even the Minoans, before the Age of Iron, or even the Age of Bronze.
We need to go back even further to find out whose land it was, whose DNA was, (and still is) in the Levant first.
Who really has the right to claim first ownership of those lands based on this flawed, ridiculous justification for genocide in the 21st century.
Back...
To the Age of Stone.
Not a few thousand years, but say a hundred thousand or so. Even more.
Humans were there.
With their DNA, DNA that still runs through the blood of millions, some small trace of it may even be in your genome, mine too, But there's a lot more of it in the DNA of our indigenous Australians, and our neighbors in PNG and others who aren't Jews.
Their bones are still there, artifacts, art, not just their DNA.
Time stamped.
They are the Neanderthals of the Levant.
Now before you scoff, think back if you can to that first thing I said to you on SN, after you had tried to make some stupid point I felt the need to say..
"Neanderthals were humans. Learn some history."
Took a while and some researchin' before you agreed.
I think you agreed.
You were arguing with Laurie McGuiness, before he 'd had enough of the shit on these threads and left. can't remember his posting name.
Laurie helped you grasp it I think too.
Anyway, bear with me here.
So by the logic of who was first, the Jews actually don't have the historical claim at all, they were beaten by hundreds of thousands of years. By cave men, whose genomic descendants walk the earth in large numbers today. By your Zionist logic, Israel should be theirs. that diaspora.
Yes ,it's ridiculous. They weren't homo sapiens, hominids yes, human yes, but I mean Neanderthal cave men, really? Don't be stupid.
Here's the rub.
Homo sapiens were there too, a bit later. But they weren't Hebrew, weren't Israelites, weren't Canaanites, or Judeans.
And the older Neanderthal DNA got mixed into some of theirs,
They had come from Africa and some went through the Levant, Including Israel and Palestine, mixed with the ancient DNA, and it spread across the world. Some of it stayed there.
These humans were there 100,00 years ago, there's evidence, like the Skhul and Qafzeh caves in Israel,
It is their descendants who own the right of first there.
Not the Jews, or their descendants. They came came much later.
And FNP have got that DNA. A big chunk of it.
So do others.
So by the same stupid flawed logic you use to justify the right of 21st century Zionists to shoot 10 year old girls in the head, Israel is in that respect, Aboriginal Land. Or at least, in part. They have plenty of Levant DNA that is much older than the Levant Jews.
It actually belongs under this "test" to all the people today who share the Neanderthal Southern Levant DNA. That can trace their DNA way further back than the Jews, to their ancestors, Neanderthal and Homosapien. Today scattered around the globe just like the early 20th century Jews.
Their's is the oldest human, and homosapien DNA in the Levant. The oldest culture, and belief system.
The Jews.
Beaten by miles.
That;s actually on your logic, not mine.
And many of those people left the Levant too, took their culture and beliefs, like the Judeans did many centuries later when Hadrian refused them entry to Jerusalem.
They live all over the world like Jews, and before you say it is Judaism that unites the Jews and these people are not united by religion, granted, but how divided is Judaism, and what about the Jews who don't support a homeland in Israel? And it's DNA that gives them primacy in the Levant, that's what you say isn't it?
Otherwise there would be nothing wrong with you converting to Judaism and going to Palestine and taking Abdul's house off him, if it was just religion or culture that matters.
And that would be a cunt of a thing to do, how could it be justified.
They do it anyway.
But because Jews were "there first".
So whose homeland is it really, first there and all that?
By that same logic, your house, it belongs to FNP.
By that same logic Kooris can turn up at your house with a gun and knock on your door and simply say "Genomes, first here, now fuck off"
And when you resist they can shoot your wife and kids and blow up your house.
And if your logically consistent and not just a Bibi simp, you are going to come on these pages and defend their right to do it.
Their ancestors were here first.
History.
Reflect on this, you are actually no different to Abdul from Palestine, a Muslim man living on land someone else has a "better, older" historical claim over.
Just geographically and historically luckier.
And Trump, he has to hand over the keys not to some South African Nazi, but to the tribes of the Indian Nations.
And there would be land grabs and Gaza's all over the planet.
Korea is a another good one, plenty of them around if it's about who's DNA or bones or remnants of culture was there first..
Lot of maps would change today if we all started using force to put nations or peoples back to where their ancestors were at the time of the Canaanites.
It's a stupid premise, but somehow people have no problem with it when it comes to justifying not just the State of Israel but all the killing they do, or a lot of it.
You @Indo are one of those people.
And yes they kill in self defence, but when you are a State that claims the legal right of self defence under International Law then you can't just ignore the rest of that law.
Doesn't work like that.
You end up wanted, like Bibi.
I hope I made my point.
I'd like you to think, open your mind.
Logic.
@andy-mac I think somewhere above made the point that the history is irrelevant to what is going on today, it doesn't justify a 21st century genocide.
That's how I feel.
Can't really think of anything that does, or ever would. Not Oct7, that's for sure, or the rockets.
I think I understand Zionism and as I said the other day, personally have no problem with those Jews who desired and fought for and achieved a homeland. Some of the ways they went about it I have problems with, but that's not relevant today either really.
You are entirely correct in pointing out their suffering over many years, centuries, in many ways.
They aren't the only one's.
That desire, that right, to a home. we all relate to that.
This is the line of advocacy you should pursue I believe.
Not some disputed ancient lineage, based on flawed logic.
I feel the same about the Palestinians.
They deserve a home, it's actually the law.
If you don't support their rights too then you are a hypocrite, which you are, because you don't.
This bullshit, our ancestors, not us, got here first so you all must go, or die, or be under our brutal oppression.
I'm from Poland but thousands of years ago I had ancestors in the Levant so that means I can take Abdul the Arab's house, whose family bought and built it and have owned it a hundred or more years.
And if he resists I can just kill him.
What do you expect Abdul to do?
It's not Gaza that could have been the Riviera of The ME, it was Israel.
They blew it I reckon, post 1948. Cruel not kind. Still doing it.
Look at the shit it's in now.
If I was a gung ho Jew, I wouldn't want to live there.
That's all I'm going to say on this.
Wish I'd never started it with that Bibi DNA post, should have known.
(he's lying about his Sephardic DNA too I reckon)
Please @Indo, no more ancient Jewish history lessons.
It doesn't excuse Israel.
Today is what matters.
And tomorrow.
(@Base keep the prose coming, that was good!)
Supafreak wrote:“ Here educate yourselfs “ ……shouldn’t that be yourselves ? sorry I just found that funny . I’ll go back to my corner now .
Coming from the guy that also said today “Roman wasn’t built in a day”
Ha haaa
If you don’t laugh you’d cry.
But yes, educate yourselfs
I’ll also go back to the corner.
indo-dreaming wrote:How funny was this moment. :D
You can love him, you can hate him but one things is sure; Trump is an elite level troller and an entertainer.
Exxotixjeff wrote:flollo wrote:I didn’t say anything about this being legal or illegal. I’ll leave that assessment to others. I’m purely saying that the most efficient way to do this job is by brining in a team of 20yo hackers. It doesn’t make it right, it’s probably illegal but I understand why.
That’s why they have to do the job fast, because they know it’s illegal.
Yeah I agree with that. It makes sense. Well, in a bad way.
Further on DOGE, this is the view of Farzad, who seems to be ex-Tesla. He describes a very fast and responsive work culture at Tesla and gives the end-picture of a very responsive and capable US Gov in the future.
This is the exciting part. At the moment we're at the 'OMG did they spend that many $$$ on this bizarre rubbish' stage, which is the transparency stage.
velocityjohnno wrote:Further on DOGE, this is the view of Farzad, who seems to be ex-Tesla. He describes a very fast and responsive work culture at Tesla and gives the end-picture of a very responsive and capable US Gov in the future.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34OSNilRsdE
This is the exciting part. At the moment we're at the 'OMG did they spend that many $$$ on this bizarre rubbish' stage, which is the transparency stage.
Yeah, this will certainly result in increased productivity but there are many question marks about legality of some moves. I’m not fully across it but you can imagine that some of the changes require congressional approval. The president can’t just do whatever he wants.
from what he said
"the way they are moving through the
different bodies in the government and
highlighting a lot of the corruption
that's been happening they're doing so
under a reclassification of an existing
body an existing framework that the
Obama administration had put through
around modernizing the systems in the
government to create a very easy way to
figure out how the money is flowing"
it seems the Department DOGE has grown out of what was already established for the purpose of identifying money flows, so they are doing the same thing as previous. They just shine a light on what they see - Trump or his secretaries are acting on this.
Confucius say, "You can't trim the pork without making the pig squeal."
I'm guessing a lot depends on the definition of "corruption" being used. If it aligns with the golden pig's version, that could be anything, depending on the current brain fart he has. International Criminal Court? Fuck, the things some people celebrate.
Yeah, good luck to those government departments. They got no chance.
adam12 wrote:@Indo,
JFC I've got to get off this thread, how are the length of some of these posts!
Too much reading doing my head in. I wonder if Stu actually reads all this shit (hi Stu), bet he's sick to death of us, and a few others just quietly if he has to wade through all this every day or so.
OK I read what you just posted and appreciate the time and effort.
I still think you are a whatever, but whatever.
I will concede that you do seem to have matured and tempered yourself compared to previous @Indo's so maybe all the shit you cop here, self inflicted a lot of it, may have had some benefit, maybe.Anyway, read that detailed post. Their enemies have been weakened before. But they are still there.
It is hard to gauge how much they have been depleted from what I see, no doubts they have, but I was shocked, and I think Bibi and the world was a bit shocked by those hostage handovers. Al Qassam standing there brandishing those sophisticated seized weapons, and they might not be strong, but they did kinda look it.
They will fight to the last man.
And despite the positives you spin, some valid points, in my whole life I've never seen things get better there. And now Trump? US on the ground? Trying to "relocate" 2 million people who don't want to go?
Apart from that being a war crime, he'd probably have more hope of moving the Israeli's out.
Can't see any of that making this better, for either side.Now let me try to put this first rights issue to you and make my point so I can move on.
Glad to hear you say you open your mind.
Let's see.
But first you need to step back in time in the Levant, through human history, way back, before religion, before Moses was a boy, before the Canaanites and even the Minoans, before the Age of Iron, or even the Age of Bronze.
We need to go back even further to find out whose land it was, whose DNA was, (and still is) in the Levant first.Who really has the right to claim first ownership of those lands based on this flawed, ridiculous justification for genocide in the 21st century.
Back...
To the Age of Stone.
Not a few thousand years, but say a hundred thousand or so. Even more.
Humans were there.
With their DNA, DNA that still runs through the blood of millions, some small trace of it may even be in your genome, mine too, But there's a lot more of it in the DNA of our indigenous Australians, and our neighbors in PNG and others who aren't Jews.
Their bones are still there, artifacts, art, not just their DNA.
Time stamped.They are the Neanderthals of the Levant.
Now before you scoff, think back if you can to that first thing I said to you on SN, after you had tried to make some stupid point I felt the need to say..
"Neanderthals were humans. Learn some history."
Took a while and some researchin' before you agreed.
I think you agreed.
You were arguing with Laurie McGuiness, before he 'd had enough of the shit on these threads and left. can't remember his posting name.
Laurie helped you grasp it I think too.
Anyway, bear with me here.So by the logic of who was first, the Jews actually don't have the historical claim at all, they were beaten by hundreds of thousands of years. By cave men, whose genomic descendants walk the earth in large numbers today. By your Zionist logic, Israel should be theirs. that diaspora.
Yes ,it's ridiculous. They weren't homo sapiens, hominids yes, human yes, but I mean Neanderthal cave men, really? Don't be stupid.
Here's the rub.
Homo sapiens were there too, a bit later. But they weren't Hebrew, weren't Israelites, weren't Canaanites, or Judeans.
And the older Neanderthal DNA got mixed into some of theirs,
They had come from Africa and some went through the Levant, Including Israel and Palestine, mixed with the ancient DNA, and it spread across the world. Some of it stayed there.
These humans were there 100,00 years ago, there's evidence, like the Skhul and Qafzeh caves in Israel,
It is their descendants who own the right of first there.
Not the Jews, or their descendants. They came came much later.And FNP have got that DNA. A big chunk of it.
So do others.So by the same stupid flawed logic you use to justify the right of 21st century Zionists to shoot 10 year old girls in the head, Israel is in that respect, Aboriginal Land. Or at least, in part. They have plenty of Levant DNA that is much older than the Levant Jews.
It actually belongs under this "test" to all the people today who share the Neanderthal Southern Levant DNA. That can trace their DNA way further back than the Jews, to their ancestors, Neanderthal and Homosapien. Today scattered around the globe just like the early 20th century Jews.
Their's is the oldest human, and homosapien DNA in the Levant. The oldest culture, and belief system.
The Jews.
Beaten by miles.
That;s actually on your logic, not mine.And many of those people left the Levant too, took their culture and beliefs, like the Judeans did many centuries later when Hadrian refused them entry to Jerusalem.
They live all over the world like Jews, and before you say it is Judaism that unites the Jews and these people are not united by religion, granted, but how divided is Judaism, and what about the Jews who don't support a homeland in Israel? And it's DNA that gives them primacy in the Levant, that's what you say isn't it?
Otherwise there would be nothing wrong with you converting to Judaism and going to Palestine and taking Abdul's house off him, if it was just religion or culture that matters.
And that would be a cunt of a thing to do, how could it be justified.
They do it anyway.
But because Jews were "there first".
So whose homeland is it really, first there and all that?By that same logic, your house, it belongs to FNP.
By that same logic Kooris can turn up at your house with a gun and knock on your door and simply say "Genomes, first here, now fuck off"
And when you resist they can shoot your wife and kids and blow up your house.
And if your logically consistent and not just a Bibi simp, you are going to come on these pages and defend their right to do it.
Their ancestors were here first.
History.
Reflect on this, you are actually no different to Abdul from Palestine, a Muslim man living on land someone else has a "better, older" historical claim over.
Just geographically and historically luckier.And Trump, he has to hand over the keys not to some South African Nazi, but to the tribes of the Indian Nations.
And there would be land grabs and Gaza's all over the planet.
Korea is a another good one, plenty of them around if it's about who's DNA or bones or remnants of culture was there first..
Lot of maps would change today if we all started using force to put nations or peoples back to where their ancestors were at the time of the Canaanites.It's a stupid premise, but somehow people have no problem with it when it comes to justifying not just the State of Israel but all the killing they do, or a lot of it.
You @Indo are one of those people.
And yes they kill in self defence, but when you are a State that claims the legal right of self defence under International Law then you can't just ignore the rest of that law.
Doesn't work like that.
You end up wanted, like Bibi.I hope I made my point.
I'd like you to think, open your mind.
Logic.@andy-mac I think somewhere above made the point that the history is irrelevant to what is going on today, it doesn't justify a 21st century genocide.
That's how I feel.
Can't really think of anything that does, or ever would. Not Oct7, that's for sure, or the rockets.
I think I understand Zionism and as I said the other day, personally have no problem with those Jews who desired and fought for and achieved a homeland. Some of the ways they went about it I have problems with, but that's not relevant today either really.
You are entirely correct in pointing out their suffering over many years, centuries, in many ways.
They aren't the only one's.
That desire, that right, to a home. we all relate to that.
This is the line of advocacy you should pursue I believe.
Not some disputed ancient lineage, based on flawed logic.
I feel the same about the Palestinians.
They deserve a home, it's actually the law.
If you don't support their rights too then you are a hypocrite, which you are, because you don't.This bullshit, our ancestors, not us, got here first so you all must go, or die, or be under our brutal oppression.
I'm from Poland but thousands of years ago I had ancestors in the Levant so that means I can take Abdul the Arab's house, whose family bought and built it and have owned it a hundred or more years.
And if he resists I can just kill him.
What do you expect Abdul to do?It's not Gaza that could have been the Riviera of The ME, it was Israel.
They blew it I reckon, post 1948. Cruel not kind. Still doing it.
Look at the shit it's in now.
If I was a gung ho Jew, I wouldn't want to live there.That's all I'm going to say on this.
Wish I'd never started it with that Bibi DNA post, should have known.
(he's lying about his Sephardic DNA too I reckon)Please @Indo, no more ancient Jewish history lessons.
It doesn't excuse Israel.
Today is what matters.
And tomorrow.(@Base keep the prose coming, that was good!)
Your whole logic is flawed, ive seen this argument many times.
While history is important and acknowledging the connection and deep history Jews have to the land is important, and thats why our previous conversation has been important.
Thats not why Israel had/has a right to the land, land is controlled by who is strongest, the Jews lost the land to the Romans who lost it to the Turkish who lost it to the British
The British did a nobel thing and returned some of the land 23% to the Jewish people, the British had control they could do as they wish just like the Romans or Turkish did once they controlled the land, if the British wanted they could have given the Jews 100% of Palestine that was actually the original plan.
I mean dude a 77% 23% split in the Arabs favour is more than fair. (77% became Trans Jordan in the early 1920s then latter Jordan in 1945)
But that 23% was still too much for the Arabs so the offer of roughly half each was put forward in the first two state solution and if you know anything about geography and history of the land that half the Arabs got offered was worth way way more in both historic, religious and just practical land use wise, the half offered to the Jews is mostly desert and much of the other useable areas marshland with far less historic or religious value
Im sure the Jewish people would have much preferred what the Arabs were offered but still agreed to the first two state solution, but the Arabs still rejected the offer because they wanted it all, the reason they have rejected a two state solution six or more times for them the only solution is all the land
At that point in 1948 it became all Israels land but the Arab league (an alliance of five Arab countries invaded and tried to destroy Israel thinking they would get all the land by force, they didnt they lost, However Jordan (created out of 77% of Palestine ) captured Judea & Samaria and renamed it the West Bank.
Jordan had it until 67 when Israel won it back in a war
Jordan had almost twenty years to create a Palestinian state out of the land but they didn't, there wasn't even any real pressure too, the reason being it was under Islamic control.
Why isn't Jordan a Palestinian state?
It was created out of 77% of Palestine and the population is 60% Palestinian, yet it's run by a minority group like Syria was until recently.
This is the obvious solution but never talked about, im sure Israel would even give up a land area in equal size to that of which the PLO and Hamas now control to make Jordan even bigger or im sure Israel would give up some land to bring the border right into Jerusalem and the highly valued religious area like temple mount be shared. (obviously Israel then get full control of Gaza and the West Bank and Arabs/Palestinians move out just like tens of thousand's of Jews did in Gaza 2005 often by force)
There is so many more logical alternatives to all this, but they cant be explored because Palestinians dont really want a Palestinian state they just want to destroy Israel, thats what from the river to the sea means.
Why you and others ignore this when Hamas and other groups make this clear is beyond me.
BTW, its impossible to talk about this without history in some way even if it's the events of the last 100 years.
In regard to Gaza Israel actually tried to give it back to Egypt in the 80s when they did a peace deal returning the sinai peninsula, if Israel wanted to expand territory they would never have given the Sinai up, when they controlled it Israel was three times the size it is now and that land is rich in gas and oil.
Indo, I’m trying to stay out of this but there are some good points in there. And historical accuracies. Btw, are you a rabbi mate, you seem to study it in great detail and you spent months talking about Jewish history, culture… All the way down to the DNA level. How much time did you give to this?
Ha ha too much time.
#alwaysanothercomment
flollo wrote:Yeah, good luck to those government departments. They got no chance.
https://www.instagram.com/reel/DFvZFOPMvUY/?igsh=ZHppd2ZpcHRwbTB6
The Nerd Reich,
Shitler Youth.
@Indo, sorry I could respond.
Done with it.
Just hope some Koori family doesn't show up on your door with a gun and a moving van one day and a copy of your posts here. You may have some explaining to do.
Tesla sales tank 75% in Australia
https://x.com/MichaelSpring17/status/1887436972576440455
tanking in Europe as well
https://x.com/OlsenUAE/status/1887552022854991906
Yeah, fuck off caveman ,
I was here first
2001 A Space Odyssey
adam12 wrote:Tesla sales tank 75% in Australia
https://x.com/MichaelSpring17/status/1887436972576440455
tanking in Europe as well
https://x.com/OlsenUAE/status/1887552022854991906
Partly because Musk is a dangerous dancing,
Nazi !
Judge Otool halts Trump Musk buyout of Federal workers, with Temporary Restraining Order ,
Saying it violates workerst rights, with a threat they will be terminated if they don’t take the dodgy deal. The Department of Justice is losing all credibility with the federal courts, and keeps losing with intellectually dishonest arguments,and agreeing to the orders .
Septic Tanks are going to Septic Tank