White Sharks Global Conference Convenes At Port Lincoln
More than 150 Australian and international shark experts are in Port Lincoln for the first White Sharks Global conference to be held in 10 years.
The event is timely, with Eyre Peninsula's community still reeling from a fatal shark attack on a 55-year-old surfer at Streaky Bay two weeks ago.
It was the region's second death of a surfer involving a great white shark this year.
Conference committee chairperson and Flinders University professor Charlie Huveneers said the event was an opportunity to find improved solutions for ocean users coexisting with great whites.
"There's a lot we need to get better at understanding," Professor Huveneers said.
"Population size and recovery is something we're still unsure of.
"We suspect a recovery has occurred after twenty years of protection, but we still don't actually know how much they recovered."
Port Lincoln is the only place in Australia that offers cage-diving tourism, which takes place at the nearby Neptune Islands.
Professor Huveneers stressed engaging with the apex predator's environment for the sake of tourism was an issue that would be discussed at the conference.
"We need to make sure it's being done sustainably and in a way that minimises any impact on white sharks and reduces any potential behavioural change," he said.
Sharks thriving off Massachusetts
Overseas at Cape Cod in Massachusetts, United States, a new great white shark population had emerged following conservation methods for seals and sharks in the past fifty years.
Atlantic White Shark Conservancy researcher Megan Winton said thriving shark numbers in her area — where a fatal shark attack occurred last year — posed challenges regarding water safety.
"We're seeing more and more interactions between sharks and humans. We're trying to figure out how to manage those interactions," she said.
Ms Winton said the conference would discuss all potential measures to increase human safety on coastlines that were home to white sharks, including culling.
"There are repellents and deterrents, but none of them are 100 per cent effective," she said.
Greens Senator Peter Whish-Wilson attended the conference in Port Lincoln (Photo: Adam Sheldon)
Tasmanian Greens Senator Peter Whish-Wilson presented a paper to the conference on Monday, focusing on helping scientists better communicate shark studies to politicians.
While Mr Whish-Wilson acknowledged recent "traumatic incidents" in SA would "inevitably" provoke aggressive reactions, he said there was no scientific evidence that proved culling sharks was an effective preventive measure.
"How many do you need to cull to actually reduce the risk?" he said.
"If there are thousands of sharks off of our coastline…you might kill a couple hundred, but you still have a lot of them out there."
The Greens senator called on SA Premier Peter Malinauskas to respond to recent events with a science-based approach.
He said shark deterrent devices like shark shields, which were subsidised by the WA government for $200, had been shown to reduce the chance of an interaction with a great white by two-thirds.
"Nothing is foolproof, but that's very significant," he said.
Mr Whish-Wilson said the SA government should follow other states that used acoustic receivers in the ocean that detected tagged sharks and triggered onshore alarms.
"I think South Australia could actually take a much more proactive approach," he said.
The rules don't apply
While Ms Winton said many shark species preferred to hunt at dusk and dawn, she said she had witnessed attacks by great whites on seals during sunny, clear days.
"The rules don't really apply to white sharks that way, which I know is probably not that comforting," she said.
The shark researcher said ocean goers should leave the water if they saw seals or feeding activity.
"You don't want to be swimming with shark foods," she said.
"They are, by and large, very selective, cautious predators.
"But anytime you've got big predators overlapping in areas that people like to use, sometimes there are going to be mistakes."
//Amelia Costigan, Emma Pedler, Adam Sheldon
© Australian Broadcasting Corporation. All rights reserved.
Comments
"But anytime you've got big predators overlapping in areas that people like to use, sometimes there are going to be mistakes."
Doubt they are 'mistakes'..........when a white shark takes a person whole is not a mistake other wise it would bite and swim away
Quotes below from divers with more experience swimming with great white sharks than most on the planet... & film evidence
"The Taylors felt that the Australian sharks may have a slightly different disposition to South African ones, but as it is now known that Great Whites swim between South Africa and Australia, this is open to debate. On two occasions many years before, they had released Great Whites trapped in wire ropes from cages without being harassed, despite touching the animals. "
"Whilst surface testing of the prototype "Shark POD" Protective Oceanic Device (now Shark Shield) for the Natal Sharks Board, the divers discovered that despite having been excited for hours previously by large amounts of blood-laden chum (mashed fish, blood and oil) and chunks of dolphin and whale meat from washed up carcasses, the sharks were actually very shy and difficult to approach, even scared of these unknown intruders. After a long 20 minute wait,......
the divers had several timid encounters with the very cautious sharks and were never at any time challenged, nor made to feel uneasy.
This ground-breaking "Underwater Everest" conquest, a huge leap forward in ocean exploration, strongly challenged the idea of the Great White as a "Mindless Monster" eating machine, and changed the way the world viewed sharks."
References
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1992_cageless_shark-diving_expedition
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ron_Taylor_(diver)
Ron Taylors' Filmography
Documentary films
Playing with Sharks for Movietone News, 1962[13]
Shark Hunters, 1963; with Ben Cropp[7]
Slaughter at Saumarez, 1964[14]
Skindiving Paradise, 1965[15]
Revenge of a Shark Victim, 1965; about Rodney Fox (re-edited by Robert Raymond into SHARK which subsequently received a Logie Award)[16]
Surf Scene, 1965, featuring top surfers Robert Conneeley, Russell Hughes, Kevin Brennan and Tanya Binning surfing new locations at Noosa Head and Double Island Point, Queensland.[15]
Will the Barrier Reef Cure Claude Clough?, 1966[17]
Belgian Scientific Expedition, for University of Liège 1967[15]
The Underwater World of Ron Taylor, 1967, narrated live by Ron Taylor
The Cave Divers, 1967; for W.D. & H.O. Wills (Aust), filmed in the area surrounding Mount Gambier, South Australia.[18]
Sharks, 1975; for Time-Life Television[15]
The Great Barrier Reef, 1978; for Time-Life Television[15]
The Wreck of the Yongala, 1981[19]
The Great Barrier Reef (IMAX), 1982; technical consultants[20]
Operation Shark Bite, 1982[15]
Give Sharks a Chance, 1991; with Richard Dennison for National Geographic Society and the Australian Broadcasting Corporation[21]
Shark Shocker 1993 (with Richard Dennison) for Channel 4 UK[22]
Shadow over the Reef, 1993[15]
Mystique of the Pearl, for Film Australia, 1995[15]
Shark Pod, 1996[23]
Shadow of the Shark, 1999; for Australian Geographic, directed by Tina Dalton-Hagege[24]
"While Ms Winton said many shark species preferred to hunt at dusk and dawn, she said she had witnessed attacks by great whites on seals during sunny, clear days."
Wow! Sunny, clear days. Really amazing stuff, who knew!? /s
Seems like these 'experts' are so behind in their knowledge. There's discussions on here with better information.
I think I read on this website in the comments section about the quality of anecdotal evidence by the thousands of people that work with (XYZ) on a daily basis; compared to scientists whose job it is to quantify and prove clearly. I think about this fact all the time. Think about chefs who serve cured fish, soft cheese and meats and the people who created this culture, who learned anecdotally and created systems of safety and flavour, all prior to Louis Pasteur.
That Bear guy was an "expert" in Bears behaviour, Grizzly Bears, the type that ate him..
And they get paid for that shit! Wtf
Gotta keep those research $ coming
Shark experts say ...You dont want to be swimming with shark foods..and look out for overlapping predaters ...
Fk better put some signs up with a list of shark foods ..and a picture of an overlapping predator
Aussie scientists,...
Time to get very very brave and say the words "we know the GW population has grown substantially following protection ...."
Practice them in the toilet by yourself, if you must, just to aclimatise yourself to logic and commonsense again.
Then whisper them during coffee breaks with your Great White Saveaholic colleagues and run away to avoid the verbal beating.
After a few days the beatings will ease up once they realise the sky did not fall and a 1000 Vic Hislops did not run for their boats.
+1
Nationwide protection of GWS for ~30 years
Substantial reduction of commercial (S symbol) and recreational (1.5m max and bag limit of 1) fishing pressure on sharks in Qld since 2010
Contraction of NSW commercial shark fishery
When i suggest these to the shark scientists in my network they acknowledge them as likely contributing to recovery with the caveat that they don't have the data to show the recovery. Yet we are willing to assess fish stocks on lines of evidence in isolation of a quantitative stock assessment.
I'm not for a cull but if a shark can be killed within minutes of a attack, kill the fuckin thing. Could have been done at granites, casuarina and probably other cases too! Who knows if the same shark won't be responsible for more deaths and if it isn't going to be responsible for more deaths boo hoo we killed a fish! It's just a fish, enjoy ya can of tuna today
"Population size and recovery is something we're still unsure of.
"We suspect a recovery has occurred after twenty years of protection, but we still don't actually know how much they recovered."
Are these people/scientists/researchers totally oblivious to the fact that if you protect something for 20 years then it will make a remarkable recovery. I can't believe these people, who obviously get government funding for their time, can't provide anything more solid from 20 years of research.
Talk about milking the government system.
This is just science speak for 'we don't have the hard data to publish yet so I won't say anything conclusive'.
Academics are often okay-to-good at their speciality and absolutely dogshit at wider communication.
Agree Ryder. These people make me sick with their obvious findings. We don't need the info the results of protection (which i personally agree with) are blindingly obvious. These people are feeding this shit to DPI and hence DPI putting in place expensive and ridiculous technology and mitigation measures. You don't like sharks....don't fukn swim!!!!!
And the whales...,.heaps too many of them.
Seriously theyre dumber than cows.'
Are they any good to eat?
And the whales...,.heaps too many of them.
Seriously theyre dumber than cows.'
Are they any good to eat?
always wonder that. id go a mcwhale burger
Whale Parmi anyone ?
You'd need a big slice of cheese.
For the emotion-based comments above: how many of you are trained in the scientific method, scientific reporting, scientific communication, the peer review process, attend scientific conferences, have studied science at uni, and know what you know and know what you don't know?
You're betraying your ignorance
Exactly. And all these comments based on 1-2 lines picked from what I imagine were lengthy presentations.
Lengthy bullshit to try justify their existence
In the USA they seem to be able to make some definite statements on population growth:
"Overseas at Cape Cod in Massachusetts, United States, a new great white shark population had emerged following conservation methods for seals and sharks in the past fifty years.
Atlantic White Shark Conservancy researcher Megan Winton said thriving shark numbers in her area — where a fatal shark attack occurred last year — posed challenges regarding water safety."
In Australia that sort of observation or use of words seems to be missing.
We don't care about exact numbers and understand it is hard to measure, just that recognition that protection has worked seems such a hard a concept for any Australia scientists to talk openly about.
It has been such a persistent pattern in commentary for a decade that it harms credibility.
The "rare and endangered" message seems to be the meme that must dominate the narrative.
Localy, words such as "thriving" must be avoided one concludes from reading media commentary by scientists - self censorship.
Solid point mate
@jimbrown - dumber than cows mate.
Regardless,
Trained theories, emotional theories. In 50 years time trained university specials might not exit.
Given how much info can be obtained now days . will higher education in uni format exist?
Whenever attacks happen. It effects the community .
No one seems to be finding a solution to the problem.
Pretty sure Steve Shearer (Freeride76) wrote a good article on here suggesting solutions. Ben/Stu/Steve could probably put a link in for you
hang on, dumber than dumber than cows
.
Jim Brown, I'd welcome the opportunity to study the data that lead to these statements by Whish-Wilson, any sources, anyone? "He said shark deterrent devices like shark shields, which were subsidised by the WA government for $200, had been shown to reduce the chance of an interaction with a great white by two-thirds.
"Nothing is foolproof, but that's very significant," he said.
Jim- Not sure you can call all these emotion based comments. You don't need a degree to have spent your whole life around the ocean and to have an understanding of the reported specifics of shark attacks on humans.
I think the frustration with the experts is that their opinions often appear to be slanted toward conservation & managing public perceptions of sharks, rather than just calling a spade a spade.
Calling attacks 'encounters' and peddling the 'test bite' theory (when its clear that recorded attacks on seals often involve one massive bite then holding off for 5 min to let them bleed out) often seems to make the experts appear to not be fully transparent in their findings.
Anyone who saw the footage of the Greenmount attack could agree that it was of a ferocity that was nothing like a 'test bite'.
Although I do like the reference to sunny day attacks in the article because a lot of experts still peddle the 'mistaken identity' theory for attacks on humans even when the attack was on a sunny clear day.
I know that Bear guy got chowed down by a Grizzly, not sure if he went to Uni but he knew alot about bears.
I wouldn't comment about sharks though.
My wife did a science degree and she annoys the shit out of me
Mine didn't but does too.
I wonder they invited Jeff Schmucker to the conference!
Or reps from the abalone diving industry
No need for anyone " in the trenches ".
No commoners need
Experts only gents.......
Jim Brown ..how many of you are trained in practical knowledge commonsense or shark behaviour veiwed threw the eyes of poeple who deal with shark issues and behaviour like ab divers ..commercial fisherman etc ...Ive dealt with reasearchers and experts all my life there worse than sharks
Not a scientist here but I've always wondered if tourist boats chumming the water, then exciting the sharks, trains them to associate humans with food. I've heard the sharks are never fed at cage dives but still they'd be ready to feed after getting teased for a few hours. Sharks seem to be relatively smart for a fish. Very cunning at least. I don't want to trash talk tourist boats but it seems logical that the interactions would lead to the sharks being more curious around humans. These predators have their interactions in SA then quietly tour the entire Australian coast line. Scary when you think about it.
Another thing I've always wondered about is clusters of attacks around different parts of Australia being caused by a dead whale dying offshore then sinking to the bottom of the ocean just off the coast. The decomposing whale would attract sharks from a long way off over a long period of time without anyone knowing. Once the sharks are in the area and the whale is done the logical thing for a shark is to hunt fish near the coast. This might explain clusters of attacks like in WA and northern NSW. Maybe if there's anything in this theory is there a way to detect dead whales in offshore currents?
I lived on the east coast of South Africa one town away from a tiger shark dive operation, never an attack but those things would be wherever an outboard cut power within seconds and became resident. That behaviour in itself suggests a learning, even with the recreational fisho's and the way they lose fish... Food association is a well know effect of human interaction with a number of species, and these, like you said, are global fish, the research and diving operations are in all the hot spots, so you would think they bump into human's and a solid chum line pretty often.
I will never forget the day they announced that sharks were a protected specie..... worst f--- decision ever
Can't say I was actually paying attention.
Have a listen to this. We probably have very little exposure to sharks these days compared to days gone past. More people in the water though....
Is it really our mission to make the ocean 100% safe? If so, at what cost?
Try not to be too reactive. What you have read above is a sound grab, not the full picture.
https://www.abc.net.au/listen/programs/conversations/david-hannan-film-u...
Outcry from the activists would be louder if a shot GWS washed up dead on the beach than another human fatality.
Still think they should be creating a synthetic repellent touched on in previous articles.
Agee with Wet dog .However our politicians are ruled by social media. Pictures of dead sharks on the verge of extinction don’t sit well with the aspirations of PC politicians..
Recently seen a global map of where China fishes. It’s more or less every open ocean zone outside of countries economic zones.. (and probably plenty of countries economic zones when no one’s looking.. including Aus). It’s pretty confronting. You have to wonder what the impact is on predatory fish like the white privileged shark, and their feeding patterns. It would be great if these experts spent some time on this.. diminishing fish stocks and an ever expending white shark population. What’s the risk to ocean users, rising? The age old gas light of sharks mistakenly biting humans when carrying out the exact same attack patterns as when the predate seals is growing tired. The difference between being mauled and eaten, seems to be if the shark is under 4m you’ve got a good chance of survival. Once the shark is over 4.5m, good luck.
Have you seen the size of the boats / ships they use. All countries , not just China.
Its crazy how much fish they take.
In 1978 whaling was ceased in Australia with less than 1000 Humpback whales remaining. Fast-forward to 2023 and it's estimated there was 40,000 plus Humpbacks migrating up the East Coast of Australia this season.
Humpbacks give birth to 1 calf every 2-3 years.
White Sharks also breed every 2-3 years but can give birth to between 2-20 pups at a time.
Scientists say "we suspect a recovery of White Sharks has occurred but are uncertain by how much"
They actually get paid to say this stuff ???
Maybe the recovery of Humpbacks may give some sort of indication what sort of recovery White Sharks are heading towards.........plus a bit ?!!!
I'm not a scientist either, but I can add up and multiply enough to see that we are heading towards a big problem of an overpopulation of White Sharks in the not too distant future.
A mate of a mate (yeah I know) happens to be a Phd and researcher with fisheries WA in the Shark department (or whatever its called) and he said to my mate when asked about his theory on the increase in attacks in recent years is (unofficially in his opinion only) correlated to increased whale populations and migration patterns up and down our coasts. So that's a scientist's and researcher in the field opinion. But...try saying cull the whales to anyone without getting blowback...altho they cull elephants in the game reserves to preserve the ecosystems there...
Re the comments about attacks happening during daylight hours, GWS colour scheme/ camouflage is only relevant when light. Dark on top so you don’t see them from above over rocky bottom and light underneath so you can’t see them when looking up to brightly lit surface of the ocean. Camouflage would not be relevant if they only hunted dawn/dusk/night time. Can’t be surprising they hunt in bright well lit conditions??
Does anyone have access to the data sources that lead to these comments attributed to Wish Wilson:
"He said shark deterrent devices like shark shields, which were subsidised by the WA government for $200, had been shown to reduce the chance of an interaction with a great white by two-thirds.
"Nothing is foolproof, but that's very significant," he said.
For the emotion-based comments above: how many of you are trained in the scientific method, scientific reporting, scientific communication, the peer review process, attend scientific conferences, have studied science at uni, and know what you know and know what you don't know?
You're betraying your ignorance
Mate, not trained and don't need to be to understand simple logic or waste our money on conferences, studies, research and mitigation. I don't know why we need to know this useless info?. They are there, they are beautiful and they are very good hunters. And since the inception of protection there are more of them and will be more of them every breeding season for a long time to come. Simple logic!. Just as with our whale population. Protected equals more of. A good thing.
@Elliedog , so are you against culling in general or just Whales and sharks?
Certainly against culling
appreciate your sentiment Ellie, but sometimes culling is needed to save the environment, eg Koalas on KI nearly ate all the trees, Kangaroos after rains in the mid north, mice plagues etc.
Probably not great examples amb.
Koalas are not endemic to SA, they were introduced here early in the 20th century.
They’ve thrived but from only 18 individuals, so the gene pool is very shallow. The population on KI is yet to establish a natural balance.
Mice are an introduced pest. Kangaroos have thrived in some areas because of the availability of grasses because of land clearing. The are now conveniently a meat industry. It’s a sad day when any native animal is culled. On land or sea.
agree its sad day but my point is sometimes culling is necessary due to what us humans have done to upset the balance.
When was the earth in balance? What date?
Prior to the arrival of the human species I reckon.
Whish Wilson
https://greens.org.au/tas/news/media-release/fear-and-facts-senate-repor...
Shark attacks a tragedy but don’t deserve tabloid sensationalism
As a keen surfer, Pete knows that while every injury or death from a shark encounter is a tragedy, these events do not deserve the tabloid sensationalism they are given, and that when we enter the ocean, we choose to be in the shark’s habitat.
Our efforts to net, catch and cull sharks as a response does not have an impact on these encounters, and has led to the deaths of thousands of other ocean species. Only through using evidence-based approaches that help us understand shark (and human) behaviour, can we start to find ways forward that protect us and avoid needlessly killing marine animals.
udo > thanks for the link to Wish Wilson's media. I just read the article within titled "Shark Mitigation and Deterrent Measures" I can't find any reference to support the "two-thirds" claim that he has made. I have also contacted him directly, via Instagram; and asked for a data reference to what led to his statement. I didn't get a response; so until he provides data, I'm calling his claim hyperbolic BS, the very antithesis of science > RR
At 4: 40 Charlie H gives Testing %
?si=iLKDvqmWlqw0K_gkUdo > thanks; interesting watch but I don't think its Wish Wilson's source as his comment was "He said shark deterrent devices like shark shields, which were subsidised by the WA government for $200, had been shown to reduce the chance of an interaction with a great white by two-thirds." - whereas this guy chucks a few baited boards out in SA, which had 60% success, which leads him to conclude "promising outcomes" > RR
Notice if ya float that tiny Board...many large Fish gather...
Enough to foul any Tests without noting the Fish Stock as #1 Attraction / Distraction.
Yummy Yellow Raw Meat Control Board Relic looks well worn but without a scratch or Dent.
Dude says they've been thru 100's of tests & we see the texta ink has worn off old faithful.
Yet still no scratch, nibbles & no Shark Tooth Lodged in it = World's #1 Invincible Surf Board!
Reckon that's yer ultimate Anti Shark Surf Board Product on show for world to see...
That board has been live baited over 100's x ( Yet it's in better nick than Beach Hire boards).
Think it's Fair to Say....
Reckon these dudes just exampled the best anti Shark Surf Board.
Just order a Ship Load of them Rustic Control Blanks...
Dangle a leg of Ham off yer Leggie & Tests show that Sharks will never bite another surfboard.
Whereas...
Whole world sees that ultra suss Ocean Guardian Board looks pretty new...Gulp!
Obviously must go thru quite a few of them...strange as they look similar.
So what happened to the missing 100's of other short lived Guardian Boards...just asking!
No Guardian Board of any decent vintage to stack up against Mint Condition relic Control Board.
That control board must have much more exotic flavours than the New Dip stick...
Just saying with the variations is Fish school/s & Cams & obvious Smelly Board differences...etc...
But them sound effects are shit hot like some spaced out Samurai...scare the lineup with that!
tbb is prepared to herald that Yummy Yellow Control Board as most Valuable Surf Board in History...
Everyone just grab a rustic Guardian Yummy Yellow Control Board with a free Xmas Ham!
Celeb endorsement..."Guardian Control Boards be flying off the shelves this Xmas!"
Just unplug all that other shit that the Sharks munch on...Whatever it was or is buried...
Just Pop out more Rustic Control Boards....hurry...get on 'em!
Grom : "I wanna Yummy Yellow Thor Control Board for Xmas!"
WSL : Just Handplaned another batch of KASEBERGA bespoke Control Boards for the Brazzos.
Reckon that answers the test...
Where the fuck do they hide all their previous 100's of chewed up Guardian Boards...
Do Guardian recycle 100's of chomped up boards into Joy Buzzers for Bean Bags...Fair Question!
Another example of the short term gratification of supporting leftist policies and ideology leads to destruction and tragedy in the long term.
?
Leftist policies and ideologies …
I think I know who the ideologue is.
More shark “incidents” lead to more tax payer $$$$ for the “experts”.
You reckon this is all planned M.A? Grow the shark population so there's more shark incidents so there's more funding for shark experts??
Far out. Tripping.
Your 2 cents worth needs to be rounded down to no sense.
Super cold point to mention but Point xxxxxx is the only place on the mainland where Australian seal pups can be seen learning to swim, play and rest on the beach. It is also one of the few places in and around Australia where they are protected from land predators and which provides a safe environment for the sea-lion pups to develop.
Time to ban cage diving. White Pointers are clever enough to make associations based on previous experience. Although they claim that baiting is not used (or chumming) the customer is paying big dollars to tick a box on their bucket list, so I am sure it happens. Dragging baits around to get the "teeth out" photo. You are not allowed to hand feed dolphins, so why is this different? Stop teaching them that boats = food. I am amazed that abalone divers are not all advocating for this to be banned. Wouldn't surprise me if cage diving is the reason fishing boats often get circled by whites.
"Population size and recovery is something we're still unsure of..."
Bullshit.
The CSIRO genetic study estimated the population numbers. This is far less unsure than the 'no idea' unsure of numbers used when they were protected in the first place.
https://blog.csiro.au/world-first-genetic-analysis-reveals-aussie-white-...
How many experts does it take to kick a can down the road?
150 apparently.
I remember hearing a story - don’t know if it is true or false, embellished etc, but the gist of it was a surfer paddled out at Cactus with a shark shield on his board, he was told to go in by the locals. The reason they did this was because they believed the shields attract sharks. Anyone heard of this story ?
Ron & Valerie Taylor from "Blue Water - White Death"....
Valerie Taylor: " Leaving the cage with Peter Gimbel and swimming through hundreds of feeding Oceanic sharks into clouds of blood so Peter could get close shots of the sharks teeth tearing into the whale carcass. We reached the whale and had to wait for the blood to clear. I had my back to the whale's belly when an Oceanic White Tip bumped me away and shuddered into the bleeding flesh."
"It was my worst and most memorable moment. I was too scared to move away in case I became separated from Peter and the whale in the bloody water so although it felt horrible I stayed against the feeding shark. Drifting around blindly in blood red opaque water full of large feeding sharks is not my idea of having a good time."
"I must add that the shark showed no interest in me, it only wanted to feed on the dead whale. I was treated as just another marine creature that happened to be in the way. The blood eventually cleared long enough for Peter to get his shots."
References
https://web.archive.org/web/20090303211023/http://www.sharkmans-world.co...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valerie_Taylor_(diver)
Work Documentaries include
Playing with Sharks for Movietone News, 1962[5]
Shark Hunters, 1963; with Ben Cropp[5]
Slaughter at Saumarez, 1964[27]
Skindiving Paradise, 1965[28]
Revenge of a Shark Victim, 1965; about Rodney Fox (re-edited by Robert Raymond into SHARK which subsequently received a Logie Award)[29]
Surf Scene, 1965[29]
Will the Barrier Reef Cure Claude Clough?, 1966[30]
Belgian Scientific Expedition, for University of Liège 1967[31]
The Underwater World of Ron Taylor, 1967, narrated live by Ron Taylor[32]
The Cave Divers, 1967; for W.D. & H.O. Wills (Aust)[33]
Sharks, 1975; for Time-Life Television[3]
The Great Barrier Reef, 1978; for Time-Life Television[34]
The Wreck of the Yongala, 1981[35]
The Great Barrier Reef (IMAX), 1982; technical consultants[32]
Operation Shark Bite, 1982[3]
Give Sharks a Chance, 1991; with Richard Dennison for National Geographic Society and the Australian Broadcasting Corporation[29]
Shark Shocker 1993 (with Richard Dennison) for Channel 4 UK[36]
Shadow over the Reef, 1993[37]
Mystique of the Pearl, for Film Australia, 1995[29]
Shark Pod, 1996[38]
Shadow of the Shark, 1999; for Australian Geographic[32]
Playing with Sharks: The Valerie Taylor Story, 2021;[39]
Documentary of 59 years swimming with sharks below
https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x8n083y
For sanity and to assist in making my judgement call I just googled “human deaths caused by animals 2023 “
Let’s cull the freshwater snail or that kissing bug thingo
Better still, let’s go after the “scientists” who named them. Idiots!!
how many of the last, 10-20 attacks country wide were at dawn or dusk?
Zero
so that theory is almost null and void then,
That Theory had never Applied to GWS.
sorry I miss read one of the comments from Ms. Winton , I thought she and most scientists were still running on the dawn/ dusk theory,
I realize the majority of gws attacks or interactions are away from those periods, hence my question.
The guy who got blasted in WA recently was around dawn right?
Nah that was during the morning. Sunny and clear.
They can't even add up, 1997 to 2023 is well over 20 years , why they saying white sharks been protected for 20 years ?
26 , even 25 is close enough !
I'd like to suggest that killer whale dummies (models) be randomly located around the coastline to act as deterrents in much the same way figurines of owl's are used to ward off smaller birds from buildings.
Orca decoys,
Sounds great
Where do you put them ?
Does every beach get one ?
Sharks are pretty smart. I think over time they'll figure out they don't move.
Didn't say it was a well thought through idea.
maybe have the Govt fund a Orca drone that regularly cruises around certain locations...........Just throwing idea's around. Seems that killer whales are the only thing that will get a Big shark to move out of an area.
Yanks had a Motorised on water one to Scare off Seals....it Sank by Memory.
haha, interesting idea.. maybe an orca frame around pedalos/paddle boats, hired out to tourists, in high traffic areas - that'd be appropriately circussy ; )
I surf with seals all the time. I go by the south African rule .
No seals in the water no surf. I can usually tell new surfers in town .
They are the ones with stripes and eyes painted on there boards.
The sharkeyes in WA have been tested and trialled by guys that have been ab divers and surfers for many years.
They're not meant to mimic seals.
Sharks don't like eye to eye confrontation. That's the point.
You already look like a seal.
I've been running colour sprays on my boards for years.
I've also spent alot of time surf in and around the red triangle.
Since surfing in that area I make obscure/ camo sprays for the bottoms of my boards.
Colours and designs vary
Maybe ill throw some eyes on them !
No stripes though, I don't want to look like a tiger shark .
I think a cull is well worth looking into... humans that is the amount of fucking idiots in the water these days, geezus.
From 2011
https://www.swellnet.com/news/surfpolitik/2011/02/21/living-sharks
I Wonder if Whitesharks views have Changed...
And Sharky and Gwendy if your out there more Stories please .
That old tread is an interesting read. Plague proportions in 2011! Must be lots more now.
The "doom scenario" for surfing risk levels, as per Reunion Island, has not happened thanks to GWs being pretty fixed in their hunting patterns - mostly...
Interesting, Udo. Counter to the theory Wayne Lynch mentions in his classic yarn
There ya go.
I have a kelp forest 400 meters out from the local.
Great to know what's really going on.....
I play on the the there's is heap of seals so there is heaps of food for them.
Great video , go work getting that footage. Not sure I would do it ?
let me guess, a room full of shark "experts" convened and all agreed there is a lot still to be learned and they all need to continue their research. i can't think of many less decisive experts in a field than shark experts.
Science does move quite slowly- you have to accumulate evidence of sufficient quality to support hypotheses to a certain degree of confidence.
Even if observations and other evidence supports a certain claim (eg, populations of white shark are recovering).
It's a huge change for Hueveneers to publicly state what fishers/surfers have been saying for a long time.
"Using careful conservation and collective action, Australians have managed to help bring back these incredible animals from the brink of permanent extinction, with experts saying that their population has been steadily increasing by 10 per cent, year on year.
So with thousands of whales swimming off our shores, why not head out and go whale watching to appreciate the beauty of these gentle giants of the sea."
https://www.timeout.com/melbourne/news/dust-off-your-binoculars-because-...
Careful conservation and collective action ??Yep head out and go whale watching from land i hope your suggesting ! You wouldnt want to jump on a passenger whale watching boat burning fossil fuel causing accoustic disturbance to marine life particually whales . Boarding from a marina that used to be a mangrove swamp and nursery to many species and propably offering a seafood buffet ( farmed of course like the enviroment wrecking salmon or prawn tassel now sells ) just so you can get all warm n fuzzy thinking your a WOKE and not having an effect on the enviroment ...im thinking the whales mightin like it much ...
"thinking your a WOKE"?
WTF is a woke?
The point was the "10% increase"
Note the experts used a number, so it could be similar to the GW shark numbers increasing?
Speaking as a South Oz surfer we all know the risks but fuck me GW''s are not endangered. These flogs like FOX with there cage diving are disgraceful. The theory that a exploratory bite is all they do then swim off is BULLSHIT! Case in point since 2000 Cameron Bayes (cactus) ,Jeven Wright (blacks), N Peterson ( west beach) ,Simon Baccanello (walkers rocks) and Todd at Granites all eaten whole! And I've missed a few! These pricks are making SO much money out of this industry of cage diving. Great Whites aren't as dumb as these so called experts say. Smucker should of been able to kill that bastard, Bureaucracy gone mad!
Interesting.
Here we a have an "in the trenches" researcher.
Wonder if they will even ponder this info ?
Feel you situation nipper77.
Keep on comments,
I'd like to hear more.
Probably an own goal to the scientists on this one.
All those white pointers from around the world, in one place for a conference, the perfect opportunity to study what they ate for morning tea, lunch, their social patterns.
Not often you get opportunity to observe a white pointer conference, pointers from all around the globe..especially one that's bloody well advertised in advance for Port Lincoln!!
Shame scientists!
The things that may have been learnt, but nope... straight through to the keeper.
Ahh well, next best thing since they're in the hood, may as well talk to some dumb surfers and dumb fishermen down there.
Maybe they know something worth sharing.
“My wife did a science degree and she annoys the shit out of me” - great example of the way that Swellnet, by failing to ever publish anything by women except by articles like this they lift from the ABC for free (no doubt also part of the govt conspiracy! but what a business model opportunity) create an insane cesspool of toxic masculinity and “yeah mate some guy I met at the pub told me something that sounded legit and I will now be a comments opinion haver on anything I’ve ever had half a thought about.”
Ironically the only reason I came back to subscribe to Swellnet after a year of boycotting due to them funding Steve Shearer’s totally fucked commentary on women’s surfing was that Craig is someone who knows something about waves that I do not, and this level of knowledge of both the scientific and experiential parts of surfing kind is hard to come by and Swellnet employs Craig, which is better than we can say for the unsatisfying competition.
How delightful to be greeted on return by this wonderfully witty repartee from the swinging penises of Swellnet, bravely dogging people who might actually have to be accountable for the claims they produce. A wonderful customer experience that makes me feel hopeful for surfing, media, men, and the future of the planet all at once.
I look forward to Swellnet supporting the triumphant return of “Blog Science” which overturned the elite scientific consensus on climate change a decade ago by aggregating the common sense experience of the Everyman unencumbered by corrupt accountability to the United Nations Illuminati, but has been suppressed by the woke communist feminist consensus. “Just asking questions!”
Please feel free to harpoon each other to maintain the order of nature.
Crikey Norris my uneducated brain struggled with those big words in that comment all i figured out is your not to keen on other poeples opinions
I would rate the shark discussions on swellnet as some of the most interesting and informed of any topic.
Check out the link Udo posted to the 2011 disussion and many others over the years.
I am still mystified how the US scientist happily note that Great Whites have thrived since being protected but Aussie researchers cling to statements that they don't really know.
Study, research, observe for more than a decade and note the huge surge in whale populations since being protected (primary food source of bigger GW) yet the researchers seem scared to step away from the "rare and endangered" narrative.
That is weird, deserves some ridicule and is nothing to do with penises except in your mind.
It would be an easy fix. No-one expects exact numbers just for the Aussie scientist to begin talking about the implications of a growing population of GW and risks in more realistic terms.
My wife has a science degree [doctorate] and she earns way more than me.
And she only annoys me a little bit sometimes.
Admin.. feel free to delete, it just made me smile a little. A joke from a well known comedian
I had a wife once ( substitute husband )
I spent years looking for her killer
…. But in the end I couldn’t find anyone to do it
Here's latest link if your Interested Norris
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-11-17/white-sharks-global-conference-te...
haha, I found this bit particularly helpful:
"With greater understanding of the great white, Dr Lowe said a person's fear about the predator's behaviour would subside.
He compared it to knowledge about an angry dog.
"It's ears are back, it's tail is down, it's lips are curled, it's growling at you — that's a pissed off dog," Dr Lowe said.
"You can see that, and you back off … people have learned to understand that language.
"What if we can get to that point with sharks? That is the goal."
A useless concept to pursue for a stealth hunter underwater that swims near us unseen 99% of the time. For Norris who posted above, that is why we give a bit of stick to GW scientists.
It's a very ill-informed comment.
Possibly taken out of context, but yeah, certainly of no use for the surfing community who are most at risk of white shark attack.
FFS, I almost thought I was reading the Betoota Advocate for a minute.
Any experienced diver knows about agonistic shark behaviour and the warning signs, but how the fark does that apply to surfers etc.?
"It's the one you don't see you have to worry about."
Educate yourselves is their answer ? Well, all I can see 150 experts looking for more grants to continue coming up with shit like that to 'educate' us.
And this,
"Dr Lowe believed scientists would be able to pinpoint in the next 25 years why a great white decided to attack a human."
I seriously doubt it but let's throw a shitload of cash at em and see what they come up with.
This "shark expert" thing sounds like a good gig. Where do I sign?
"Other Australian initiatives has been led by Flinders University's Southern Shark Ecology Group, which has just finished a year-long trial with neoprene wetsuits and great white sharks at Neptune Islands."
A year of putting wetties in the water at the Neptunes? smh
Seems to be effective VJ.
How many attacks is that now on the West Coast this year?
Can't get enough of those neoprene wetties.
I think the conference should have been held with experts swimming around in shark infested waters, it would have most likely produced more conclusive results. If sharks are sort of smart let them learn if they come to the shore they die.
Bull sharks- Gold Coast waterways- "There could be 20. There could be 20,000.“
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-11-19/bull-shark-count-sunshine-coast-n...
Steve, do you know if there have been any attacks where there are drum lines in the water?
Coolangatta has both nets and drumlines and had the attack at greeny a couple years ago.
Toby Beggs- Port
Nick Slater- Greenmount
Pt Maquarie - Toby Beggs.
Far out Norris… you need to meet Rod Cunthorp… he’d set ya straight
"Dr Lowe believed scientists would be able to pinpoint in the next 25 years why a great white decided to attack a human."
Fast forward to 2048
Reporting at the annual GWS conference, Dr Highland praised the long-retired Dr Lowe’s foresight and announced that scientists had indeed discovered why GWS attacked humans. She reported the reasons are:
1. defending itself against an attack or inadvertent provocation
2. protecting its young from a perceived threat
3. competing for food held or being interfered with
4. preying on a food source
She noted that coincidentally one or more of these reasons applied to most attacks on humans from other animals, and congratulated the scientists for their hard work and dedication over the past quarter of a century.
Protecting it's young - that's really interesting, I thought the young were on their own since birth (mother sedated by experience so as not to eat? But no one has filmed GWS birth as of yet so who knows?), and tend to roam alone both in estuaries and in their pupping grounds in inshore waters, doing transects deep to shallow, preying on fish until mammal-chomping size. All the while they may be preyed upon by things, including bigger GWS.
The only instance of a mother GWS protecting her young that I know of is in Jaws 3 where mumma and baby get caught in a big Seaworld enclosure and go on a rampage.
Edit: touche.
Probably the reason they are called Great Whites.........change colour after giving birth ?
That's unreal Udo, there's almost a first on film: a bit murky when she potentially gives birth. Surely someone has an underwater drone...
I can see good ideas from all camps. We all want a solution to something that cannot be solved. Mitigated at best, with costs.
I surf in the Red Triangle (north end of it) approx 3 times a week. More, during the sharky time of the year (now) as that is when surf is best. I used to lull myself by thinking "well, lots of attacks.. no fatalities, in this area." As if the residents here only sampled. There was a fatal attack last month here that shattered that and had me in my feels for a few days.
So i certainly, even very recently, have emoted for things like nets, culls, ANYTHING.
But, the question that always pops into my head...... maybe not a popular one (it isn't always popular even in my own head)..... If surfing couldn't kills us would it be half as fun? Maybe not even worth the cold, wet of it all.
I don't want an "encounter" or an "event" ever at all.
But the notion that i am in a wild place where horrible things like that CAN happen...... that is a big part of it.
Stinson and p Reyes have both had fatal b bay also . ...........
Sorry, Lanky. No fatal attacks in Marin or Sonoma Counties, until last month. Lots of attacks through the years, unfortunately... but no fatalities. Two in SF. One in 1959, a swimmer, and the other, I believe, was in 1926.
Your wrong. I'm sorry
All three have had , where are you getting your info?
Don't need to get it anywheres. I grew up here and have been in the ocean here since Noah was collecting animals, lol. Look it up, though, and you'll see. Some serious attacks to be sure. No fatalities. I can almost name all 15 victims over the years in California, and the locations. None here.
Huh,
I m sure I read a plaque at stinson stating one happened there, way back then....
It from memory was at an entrance to the beach.
That's pretty good odds for Marin though.
You stay safe down There wax 24.
Keep on posting though.
Its always good to get more info.
Is the farm stand still at bo?
I used to shop there after surfing a few times every week
I lived in close to stins/nas...
Get my drift.
Sea you at the paper mill.
What happened to 2 mile ?
Okay Lanky. I don't get to Stinson or Bolinas much. All of Marin County is a bit sharky, even for this area, and best avoided if there are other options.
I had a good run down there wax 24
Still do the occasional trip, looked at the stats and you are correct. Sorry to hear about what happened at wild cat.
I honestly started to do more hiking when I lived down there.
I tried mountain biking and hated it.
There was mountains lions , bobcat, west Marin is a pretty wild place.
Its amazing that it's stayed undeveloped. The powers have done a great job of protecting the overall wilderness.
I surfed yesterday and seen whales , dolphins (no seals)and a shark in the line up.
Its an active time. Stay safe
Happy thanks giving!
Don’t get me started on the mountain lions. Bit like the Pointers, around here, with the conservation and mixed messages and all. Still in all, my second fave animals easy. Behind the pointers.
And for the Marin Coast, I think it has stayed wild because of the influx of eastern money that prefers it way. It’s holding as is for now.
(eastern meaning east coast US)
I’m real glad you had a good run here, Lanky. These parts are fickle as hell. But it always is what it is, hey?
As to this thread, i want to be/feel safe. AND! I want to commune with the wild.
Not solvable.
The remedy rests in my inner being.
wax24 I just google earthed Marin County. Is that your general area?
There's a shit load of coastline north from there!
Waves all the way to Washington?
Yeah, Goofy, you’d think so, but the topography and oceangraphy disagree. Lotsa nooks, LOTSA rocks. Reefs are few and heavily patrolled. Wild place. Doesn’t yield to the whimsical dalliances of man.
Cheers wax, sounds like a south Oz/western vic kinda vibe
Wax24......'If surfing couldn't kills us would it be half as fun? '
Hell yeah.....better.......less stress and more concentrating on waves and surfing them and not looking around for shadows.........
.
Interesting observations from Cali.
Im feeling all warm and fuzzy inside after watching that......time to hug a white pointer..............love how the dick on the sup gets all closeup and personal...wonder if he realizes that the shark is probably 12 ft and would bite thru his fukin sup and him in a heart beat, and the dick on a wavestorm ...probably lucky the pointer was only a baby 5fter.........wonder what the crew in south aus think about how nice they are portrayed.
Rather pointing out the abundance now being spotted in the region.
Yes i realize that and maybe the pointers in the area he films are more accustomed to humans.
From what I saw it seemed more like they were just staying put / calm rather than splashing and bailing. What would you do @simba cut and run or stay calm and keep your eyes on it?
Looked to me as though they both were getting as close as they could to get a better view with the sup dude pulling his camera out of a plastic bag and taking a photo ...thats how i viewed it Blingas .As for me i would have quietly cut and run and splashed my way to the beach .
Time for another look at Remus
?si=Qt-4eYRoN3u460D6That was nuts. Especially the one from below. Aint no surf board surviving that. Must be like the one in WA recently at the bombie where the guy got launched into the air.
Bit of a contrast between the two vids above
Ha.
Shame its always about a fish and the dead Humans all these decades of 'protection' are never mentioned or celebrated for their 'contribution' to this virtue signalling disgrace. Do Humans matter or just the glorious fish? The ca$h cow.
These are people's children being slaughtered. How do these 'con$ervation' kooks sleep at night knowing what they have done? Can we not 'count' sharks by the amount of attacks taking place for umm 30 years? Duh... these cruel and greedy 'advocacy' dilletantes are simply cake eating desk jockeys that don't even use the ocean. Useful idiots. Its tantamount to murder.. where is the DUTY OF CARE?
"Can we not 'count' sharks by the amount of attacks taking place for umm 30 years?"
No, probably not with any reliability. There are not enough attacks. They are still rare as fuck.... which makes your comment wildly over the top.
"where is the DUTY OF CARE?"
Scientists/government have a duty of care to protect us from wild animals? Who has a duty of care if someone gets bitten by a venomous snake while walking through the bush? Statistically, you are 5000 times more likely to get bitten and die from snakebite than shark bite. Where's the outrage!? Get a grip.
Peabo if you graph the shark attacks over the last 100 years using various sources to gain an average.. you will see a couple of sharp rises in the attack rate, particularly at the 1992 point which was when the Rio Earth Summit took place, elevating lethal animals over Humans. Bear, croc, shark, snake attacks even domestic dog attacks have risen sharply since 1992. Its the best indicator we have that 'protection' has worked, the advocacy groups never mention it which is telling. Just like the Humans... they never mention the Human cost, its always about their fish. As far as DOC goes.. when a decision-policy is made that could harm or kill a person... under Tort Law a DUTY OF CARE assessment-risk assessment is reqd. This is LAW Peabo. This was never done. Many have died for no reason other than money. As usual. The LAW will catch up with these people over this, its inevitable now. I will be quietly watching them sweating in the docks.
Batfink... yes the fishos tell the story correctly. Strange they're never listened too by the advocacy desk jockeys eh?
Ephesians 5:11.... "Take no part in the works of darkness instead expose them"
https://hakaimagazine.com/news/nine-out-ten-shark-scientists-agree-susta...
Everyone is an expert mate even the Ephesians.
We could always have the ultimate "Duty Of Care" imposed upon us. For our protection and well being surfing is hereby banned. That would go down well.
According to the ABS, in the FY 2020-21, 132 people died as a result of falling out of bed or off a chair.
As a duty of care should the government ban beds and chairs to protect us???
Life is full of risks. I chose surfing rather than mountaineering as gravity will win every time.
The rest of your post is a load of shit.
Not necessarily taking sides here, but I cant stand the statistical comparisons to other death events in the context of shark attacks. Most of the time they are completely irrelevant to the discussion.
Your getting out of bed/chairs reference is a good example, how many millions of people get out of a bed or chair multiple times every day, including frail, old or already sick/injured persons. Compare this to the number of persons surfing every day, which is unlikely to include elderly, sick or injured persons. Its just not a relevant statistical comparison to shark deaths.
Its similar to a vending machine deaths per year comparison someone made on a similar topic on swellnet a while back, it had no context and didn't consider that likely millions of vending machines in places like Japan and the thousands of people servicing and moving them every day.
Just because the number of deaths is by shark attack is lower than some other everyday event doesn't mean that the risks are less.
The comparison was made specifically in reference to the "Duty Of Care" claims by Cheese, and has nothing to do with the relative numbers of deaths.
Cheers.
there is heaps of em out there fellas, best quit surfing before it's too late
Just on the ‘science versus anecdote’ theme.
There are many areas of science where amateurs have added as much or more to the science than the actual scientists. Have been reading quite a bit about mushrooms in recent years (latest, ‘Entangled Life’ by Merlin Sheldrake, yep, what a name, it’s an interesting read). Mycology is one of those fields where amateurs, or citizen scientists have added heaps to the field.
That there is an actual scientific method is axiomatic, and doing proper science requires it. Actual data and hypotheses. Necessary work. The anti-science crowd here no doubt uploaded their thoughts on a phone or computer. Oh, that science, that’s ok.
But if there are great swathes of human activity that are observing first hand on a daily basis whatever field of study the scientist is undertaking, and that scientist poo-poos the ‘anecdotal’ evidence, then that scientist isn’t worth a hill of beans.
I haven’t heard of a fisho or a surfer who hasn’t observed greater numbers of sharks, and shark, er, interactions in recent times. Open ocean recreation and commercial fishers would be best of all. They all seem to say that shark numbers are much higher.
You can’t diss that eyewitness evidence just because it isn’t ‘science’.
My reading of the situation is that they seemed rather quick to claim that great whites were endangered based on not a whole lot of evidence, especially when coupled with the knowledge that whale populations at the time were comparatively low. There wasn’t a lot of hard data to make that claim.
They seemed, to me, to confuse absence of evidence with evidence of absence. That’s a no-no in the world of science.
No opinions offered here on shark culls, yes or no. Just saying that science is necessary, but also that actual observation by amateurs cannot be discounted just because they didn’t use the scientific method.
Just a thought.
Good post Batfink.
One question I wonder about often is 'by protecting the apex species are we altering undersea ecosystems such that the apex predator's numbers are displacing the communities of other sharks and sea life that existed there previously?'
and I guess the hypothesis is 'if greater GWS numbers are altering previous numbers of other animals in undersea ecosystems, then a review of anecdotal catch logs of fishermen and dive logs of divers will show this'.
The ultimate nightmare would be like the planet Riddick finds himself on in Pitch Black - where an apex predator eats all other life on the surface.
When does the conference wrap up? Im waiting until then to comment..
Nov 17th.
Aha. **Ill wait till the findings etc & followup thread then
Obviously, you didn't get the memo.
They found nothing,
except....
"Dr Lowe, however, said the only rational means of prevention was for ocean users to educate themselves on shark behaviour so they could assume the relatively low risk themselves.
"It's really about educating yourself to understand these creatures and how they behave and getting a better sense of confidence," he said.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-11-17/white-sharks-global-conference-te...
So don't worry about it, just watch a few Discovery channel docos and you'll be sweet.
Er...wtf has Dr Lowe been smoking? Oh...i think i see what he's trying to say...but in typical scientific fashion hes kinda over-intellectualized his delivery somewhat to the point of not giving any specifically useful advice. Im not going to comment afterall. For now.
I did the Port Lincoln cage dive a few years ago it was awesome. The boat ride out to the Neptune Islands is approximately three to four hours. About an hour and a half into the voyage, the charter stopped in a sheltered cove to collect a group of tourists who had been swimming/snorkelling with seals. They had been dropped off for the swim early in the morning. There were seals everywhere, gorgeous creatures puppy dogs of the sea. All swimmers got on board and either participated in the shark cage dive or watched from the ship's deck. I couldn't believe that this was a legit organised activity in prime shark habitat. Darwin awards stuff seriously.
Think of the fuel you would save if you didn't do the detour and did both activities at the Neptunes.