Whats the Real Surf Etiquette?

Hi thelostclimber. I'll bite at this one
Like you I choose to surf away from the crowds but when it isn't possible I would like people to follow these rules. It never works but here goes.
1. Never drop in on anyone no matter who you are (If you do so accidentaly, apologise immediately or pull off the wave and apologise after anyway)
2. No SUPs in a crowded lineup (not that I ride one but I prefer they weren't in a busy area. SUP in a novice's hands = DANGEROUS)
3. If you ride a SUP with a group of SUPfers, let some waves come through for shortboarders. No one likes people hogging waves. This is my main issue with this surfing phenomenon
4. Use a legrope people. Not only are they useful, they are also a vital piece of safety equipment and mean people aren't hit by runaway boards. Most relevant for mals and SUPs.
5. Do not fade people (personal hate of mine)
6. Go the right way on the wave i.e. in the direction it is breaking (another personal hate)
7. Don't paddle around the inside of people all session. There does however, everywhere you go always seems to be one guy who can't help himself
8. Most importantly, share and have fun. There's plenty of waves to go round

1. The best waves on the day should be left for the competent surfers who wont blow it.
2. If you drop in on someone who is of lesser ability than you it is OK.
3. Don't go out beyond your ability (Danger for you and everyone else out there)
4. If you paddle up the inside of the crowd, make sure you can back it up by ripping the bag out of it or be prepared to be dropped in on.
5. Stay clear of people already up and riding.
6. If you have to bail to get under a wave you should'nt be out in those conditions.
7. Never let a kook have the wave of the day.
8. Don't go out to the main peak where all the good surfers are and expect to get a wave, it just wont happen!
9. If you ride a SUP you are not surfing, you are just getting in the way. How many people actually know that SUP's were invented in Texas to ride tanker waves in the gulf. Does'nt make you a waterman, just a poser.
10. Have fun and SHOW RESPECT to those who have been at it a lot longer than you, unless you are a talented young grom making his way up the pecking order.

There simple and plain english. If you don't like it bad luck and get a new sport.

Only started surfing the last couple of months. Been keen to learn all the "rules", and think I understand most of them. But what is 'fading"?

For all you guys that have just started surfing,don't take Adams version of the rules to seriosely He is just typical of the wankers that have moved into torquay of late or he is just having a laugh to wind people up(worked well)

rushy
fading is when you turn towards the guy paddling on the inside of you, forcing him to abort his attempt to catch the wave (he should have right of way technically) and then turning the other way and riding the wave as normal. In my area usually performed by older guys on mals who can get up quicker than a shortboarder and intensely annoying and just plain rude in my opinion.
And Adam, surely you can't be serious with some of those????

Great thread. I hope this gets plenty of attention.

OK my first question is on Adam's (serious?)rule about staying clear of people up and riding.

In addition to Adams rule I have often heard the tip of either paddling wide of the lineup or if caught inside to paddle into the whitewater if you think you can't make it out past the shoulder when there is someone on the wave. What I want to know does the right of way for the rider always hold or is there a grey area. There have been a few occasions when I have working my way along the wave, in control and focusing on a turn and then found myself aiming straight at someone paddling out. In 15 years it has happened twice (for some reason in recent times rather than when I first started surfing) both times during a cutback on a flat section. One time I collided and the second time I managed to flick off without incident. The guy I ran into wasn't hurt but cracked up saying it was my fault. I wasn't really sure who was in the wrong so just apologised and carried on.

Should we be able to ride a wave with 100% focus on the wave or is there an expectation that when riding a wave we should have some awareness of what is going on around us because sometimes people stuff up and get in the way.

Condolences to the good folk of Torquay.

Adam if you are being serious,then you need your head examined. Trust me you would have a bad session if you applied these rules around me.

Listen Adam you bloody smart arse what do you think you are doing coming into a forum like this and telling the truth! Show some respect mate, hypocrisy has beeen good enough for generations of surfers. Lip service mate, give the standard version a bit of lip service and then go out and do (as you accurately describe) what everyone else does.

Rules as they should be and not the piss take I put up before......
1. Assess your abilities and the conditions (no point getting in danger)
2. Always smile in the lineup (if you see a good turn hoot the guy)
3. Share the waves around (Don't take every set wave)
4. Don't snake or drop in
5. Keep clear of people up and riding (even if it means you have to duckdive a set)

they are the basics.....
Most important is to leave only your footprints at the beach (take all your rubbish with you)

P.S. to Shaun, you took the bait big time....hahahaha

Hey Adam, you did get me a bit, good one. but you are from torquay so it was concievably the truth. Surfing etiquette is such a foggy one but in the end it works out. It's the law of the jungle , laid back at some places very intense at others, karma generally catches to people up good or bad.An important rule for those new to surfing that are about to be run over whilst paddling out, is that the guy on the wave is the one in control of the situation so dont throw your board away and STOP, he can turn faster than you can paddle and he cant read you mind if you decide to go one way or the other.99% of the time the surfer on the wave is aware of everything that is going on around him, your always looking ahead setting things up,so stop and if he does run you over hopefully he'll take the weight off the board as it hits.

Shaun,
so true,

My take on this issue is that rules are useless. Wave priority is a complicated business and depends as much on social skills as surfing ones. No set of rules adequately describes any but the most simple situations. If you want to change behaviour, which seems to be the goal of most of these contributions, you need to change the environment.
There is a lot of psychological evidence about in-group and out-group behaviour. In brief, we instantly, consciously or unconsciously, classify people as "in" or "out". The default setting is "out". We treat these two groups very differently. We will cooperate with members of the "in" group but compete with members of the "out" group. In a crowded surf situation, a large cooperating in group will out compete the rest. This is human behaviour. You can't legislate it out of existence!
If we take this a step further,the in group is likely to consist of those people who surf the place regularly. This flows from familiarity. No matter how you initially classified them, all things being equal, in time they will be part of your in group. Therefore the most effective way to reduce bad behaviour is to encourage people to restrict the bulk of their surfing to a few locations where they are will become part of the in group and to recognise that when they go elsewhere, they will be part of the out group unless they are socially skilled enough to obtain temporary acceptance. This can be amazingly easy at times but in good quality, crowded conditions, forget it. The in group will look after their own in obtaining the prime resource.
There is a lot more that could be said about this but I stick to my main point. Rules? Forget them, build relationships. Noticeboards with rules on them? Ha ha ha ha ha. I mean we've had them about dogs on the beach for 20 years and there are still dogs on the beach!

Blindboy you have hit the nail on the head.
To be in the "in group" you must be local enough to know a fair amount of people in the surf at your local break.
To stay out of the "out group" you must be able to surf very well and be polite in the lineup at places that you are visiting.
A classic example of how powerful the in group can be is when a friend of mine and myself were asked by people at Quiksilver to chaperone Kelly Slater when he came out in 1991 to sighn his big contract with Quik.
We took Kelly for a surf at pumping North Narrabeen, crowded as all hell. Kelly got dropped in on every time he took off, he was asking why this was happening and I had to tell him that you can't just rock up to Narrabeen and expect to get waves. He asked me what he should do, I told him he has to just suck it up, because tomorrow was going to have way better waves and he would have any wave he wanted, every one wanted to see how good he was, but he had to take his licks as well.
Tough environment sometimes no matter who you are. Put in your time and learn the ropes, surfing is worth it.

Shaun,
most of the offenders down here in Torquay are from out of town, we get worked down here by the blow-ins. I would much rather surf crowded snapper than crowded winkipop anyday. It seems the better you surf down here the more you get burnt by kooks. Then when we do get swell, and it can get big down here, you should see the amount of boards that get ditched when the sets come, had a few in the head from people bailing in the lip.
Cheers

Spot on blind boy, I'm in.

Adam, I know very well how big Winki get's, I grew up surfing the coast between corsair and peterbougher,I feel sorry for you guys the waves are getting worse and so are the crowds and Im so happy I dont have to deal with it.

Thanks for that Adam. I think there is a problem of unrealistic expectations in people taking up surfing or who only surf occasionally. They confuse their right of equal access to the waves with the notion that they will get a fair share in crowded conditions. Places like the Gold Coast, Torquay and Manly have problems because the natural balance between the in group locals and the out group blow ins is distorted by tourism and occasional surfers commuting to their breaks.
In effect, at some locations, the in group are so numerically overwhelmed that they lose control. This is when serious aggression and violence are likely to occur. In any group of committed locals there will be a few young men with unstable high self esteem. When their self esteem is challenged by their inability to catch the waves they want at their home break they tend to become violent.
The surf schools and the media have a role to play here. In your first post you said something like the best surfers should get the best waves. I believe that is true. It is simply showing respect to someone who has put in the effort to achieve a degree of excellence. Surfing is still trapped in some kind of perpetual adolescence in which mature, sensible analysis simply does not happen. The surf media is dominated by shallow,unreconstructed sexism interspersed with hagiography and ineffectual pontification about issues which are deserving of more serious analysis.

Gee, and I just wanted to be able to stand up and have some fun. Didn't realise this surfing caper was so complex and intense. Mate, it's the same with any sport though, mainstream or not. I play golf and it similar there - hackers (as against kooks) stuffing it up for the low handicappers (as against the "guns"). Like with surfing, the better players generally play the better courses, which are beyond the lesser players ability, so they tend not to mix too much, but it does happen. When it does, like in surfing, I guess you either suck it up (as mentioned by Adam above), or you react. I intend to show respect to all my betters, and given my current level of surfing skill, that seems like it will be for a long while yet.

Do golfers get caught up in issues of localism Rushy? 'This course is mine' sort of thing?

I've always been fascinated by surfers attachment to their local. Reared with a Buddhist outlook of non-attachment I reserve the most fascination for my own innate need to connect with my local. I can't seem to 'unattach' myself to it.

This can be a good thing in that it promotes stewardship of a place and fosters relationships with others who also call it their local, yet there is a distinctly ugly side to localism. And it's that aspect the public hears about with 'surf rage' and the associated carry on.

The surfing world is way more complex than it appears to the public or to newcomers. And it's a fraught system...always will be. As Blindboy has said the local pecking order is controlled by a naturally occurring human dynamic that can't be legislated against. For me it's both a good and bad thing.

I hate seeing it when people abuse the system and localism turns into entitlement at the expense of non-locals getting a few waves. But then, being a local myself, I know how to operate and use the system to my advantage. In my defence I think I'm fair with how many waves I take, though I'm sure others may disagree.

Good luck figuring it all out...

(Rant on) Why is it that occasional surfers always seem to cop the brunt of locals/regular surfers from being able to get waves. OK so maybe you've worked your arse off to be able to live by the ocean and surf everyday or what not, but there are those who for whatever circumstance find themselves living a distance away from the nearest surf. Doesn't make us any less committed. Try getting up at 4am so you can get down for the early sometime. (End rant) :(

Sorry about that

I thought the point of this thread was to educate newbies on how to behave in the water to avoid frustration and violent behaviour. It's fine to practice general courtesy but that still won't stop newcomers getting in the way, dropping-in, chucking boards etc. We still need some practical guidelines so the lineup doesn't end up in complete chaos.

The point of the thread was to educate the newbies, but it's turned into a justification for bad behaviour by locals.

Don't worry Poket Roket, if you lived by the beach you'd probably be doing the same thing too. Human nature being what it is...

Well Roket you've just got to keep getting up at 4am and keep on turning up to the same area you get accepted in the end when they realize your not going to give up and go away. If you want to be accepted it is best to surf alone, it's hard to have ago at a guy that paddles out by himself and sits back and wait for an opening. As apposed to a group of mates paddling out on an inconsistent day and doubling or tripling the line up.Best to go under the radar, local line ups aren't made up of good mates all surfing together, but groups of mates that have learned to put up with each other. I surf with guys that I cant stand and they feel the same about me, but we respect each others place in the line up.But if some young surf industry type upstart from Torquay like Adam comes out and paddles straight inside we'll join forces and give him heaps.

Knowing the rules is great, and teaching beginners these rules is also great, but what about those guys who seem to think the rule about not snaking applies to everyone else but them? They should have a big dick painted on their wetties! I dunno about everyone else, but I'm noticing more of these dicks in the water recently. Its not the super bank... Fuck Off!
I do find it funny when they complain about being dropped in on all the time though.

Yeah Stu, localism in golf exists in a "members vs social club" form, but I'm more interested in getting my head around the surf rules. Poket-roket mentioned "chucking boards". I think I can guess the prob there (yes, I do use a leg rope, and I'm not really going near the good surfers yet), but please explain more.

Shaun,
I am not a young industry upstart, I am not involved in the surf industry and I have been surfing since 1974. I think 35 years in the surf gives me some rights out there. I have surfed all over the world. So before you start to pidgeon hole me you should find out who you are paying out on. I choose where in the lineup I am going to take off from and if it happens to be 30 meters inside of the rest of the pack it's because i can and will make it from there. So if you do join forces and give me heaps I will employ my tatics of actually taking every wave that comes through and close all the gaps so you get none. All with a smile on my face.
Rushy, I think you need another analogy, the golf one just seems a bit lame to me, there is no danger associated with golfing, yet a pointy board in crowded conditions at the hands of a hacker is very dangerous, like a punter on a black diamond.

chucking a board away when you get caught inside on a set, with a surfer coming through on the wave. It's a really shit thing to do, you have to try and take the wave by duck diving or barrel rolling and hanging on to your board. I've had stitches from a guy chucking a board, as I went past on my backhand it bounced up out of the whitewash and hit me in the back of the head.

rushy, chucking your board away refers to making no attempt to hold onto your board when a broken wave approachs. This is dangerous in crowded conditions. If you don't feel confident duck diving in waves of that size and power you shouldn't be out there. In heavy conditions the approved method of holding your board is to duck dive and, at the deepest point of the dive, wrap both your arms and legs tightly around the board......bear hug the thing and you'll be surprised what you can get through. It is worth remembering that in most cases you will get back to the surface much more quickly doing this than throwing the board away and free diving.....there may be other methods around but this one has always worked for me!

HAHAHA I knew I could get you to bite on that one Adam, your welcome to take off 30 meters inside of me. Because you would be surfing another break if you did.

Good work Shaun, got me....hahaha
Have a surf for me today, put my back out yesterday in the surf.
Cheers

Blindboy's advice is great.
When it is big the best thing to have is your board to get you to the surface quicker. Always hang on to your board!

haha, interesting read fellas... I grew up in a place where there is a bit of localism known, same as everywhere else. The bottom line is there is always going to be "those guys" that have their "own wave". personally, it can be off putting if you dont know them, but at the same time, i find if you pull off your first couple of waves that probably should have been yours to let one of the other guys take it then it gets rid of a bit of the agro in them and makes it a bit cruisier to catch a couple. Luckily, i can usually find a wave with noone on it in my area, so prefer to go for the not-so-great wave that i can catch every ten minutes compared to the better wave where you have to compete for a spot in the line-up...

With the rules, its all just about common courtesy. nothing is in stone. dont drop in or snake is the main one that pisses most people off so just be cautious of that...

also, some of the waves in my area are impossible to duck dive as you are on a gun surfing 12 foot breaks. just make sure there is no-one behind you when you bail.

Adam, I agree there's no comparison between golf and surfing in terms of dangerous acts. I was merely suggesting most sports (if not all) have a set of rules to make it fair/safe/enjoyable/whatever for all concerned. And as in life, there are those who think they're above it all and don't give a toss about any rules - just about themselves and their own enjoyment. I intend to stay clear of that type. I'm learning on an 8'4'' mini mal, so won't be duck diving but I will be hanging onto it when I get caught inside. The thing I've enjoyed most so far with surfing is being up close to some good surfers and seeing first-hand how easy they make it look. I now know it isn't as easy as it may appear.

hi guys, good thread!

I surf beachies a lot, so the peak shifts round. I like to call people into the wave if they have a better spot down the line, even though i've waited for 'that' wave... they come back out stoked, i'll get another wave no problem. It just keeps things moving along!

I think that someone calling you into a wave is also a good thing, especially if they are gonna miss it.

Rushy, start practicing your duck diving now on the mini mal. It's not easy but it's all technique and if you can master it with a mal when you progress to a short board it will be a piece of piss. Something else to take into consideration is that the cause of most boards that brake in half are when there thrown away, more so with mals and mini mals as there's more area in nose and tail.

"I like to call people into the wave if they have a better spot down the line,"

On the money there dumpy, it should be standard, all else being equal, to give the wave to the person likely to make the best use of it. You see people trying to come from behind the peak calling others off when all they are going to do is bump along the bottom behind the section and maybe pop out on the shoulder down the line.... but hey it was their wave and anyone else would have been dropping in. So much for "the rules"

In a lot of situations the drop in rule is actually responsible for a huge number of wasted waves as the crowd hassle each other ever deeper. At some places there is wide spot where the wave can be picked up but at others, that's it, inside guy didn't make the first section, watch it unfold empty!

How is a lone female surfer received by the lineup? I am still learning to surf and stick to the baby breaks so that I do not get in the way. But when the time comes for me to try something bigger, I am not confident I will be able to handle myself in the lineup if it is as aggressive as this forum suggests it can be. I am already scared of Adam.

If you do want to take one deep and paddle inside at least let a few sets go before you go for it. But remember, you better make it or it,s your last. If you ride a lid you have the skill level of a grub ,you have no right to claim a wave from a surfer.Be a man and learn to stand up,it will be a challenge and take time but you can,t expect respect while your grovelling aruond on your belly all day. Anyway Charles Darwin told us all this a long time ago.

Well PABLO if u think surfers are better than body boarders u've got ROCKS in ur head it takes just as much skill to bodge as it does to surf... U have no respect for your fellow water dwellers and have no right to judge there skill level i would think by your brain capacity u would have no talent on a surf board and should stick to the shore line where people like you belong!

i've got a can if you have the worms...

How is a lone female surfer received by the lineup? I am still learning to surf and stick to the baby breaks so that I do not get in the way. But when the time comes for me to try something bigger, I am not confident I will be able to handle myself in the lineup if it is as aggressive as this forum suggests it can be. I am already scared of Adam.

By: "jurmala"

I think females are generally well received in the line up. Just stick to the basic rules as posted previously here and you’ll be right.

Sounds like you’re on the right track, start on the small ones and as you get more confident you can challenge yourself in bigger conditions. I can’t really comment on your local area, but usually most guys will give you a fair go if you’re doing the right thing. There are a couple of girls I see in the water at my local, they have no dramas getting their share of waves (one in particular can rip it up too).

For me personally, if there’s a chick in the line-up and she’s trying her hardest to get a wave I’ll let a couple go (just a couple though) so she can have a chance to get one. Just get out there and have a go…

Well PABLO if u think surfers are better than body boarders u've got ROCKS in ur head it takes just as much skill to bodge as it does to surf... U have no respect for your fellow water dwellers and have no right to judge there skill level i would think by your brain capacity u would have no talent on a surf board and should stick to the shore line where people like you belong!

By: "thetwig"

It's ok twiggy not everyone hates lids, I mean how many lid riders keep surfing past about their early twentys so be thankful the little morons didn't stand up they'd be surfing for life. I've gotta theory about gut sliders, that they mostly come from broken homes where there's no father figure about to tell them to grow up and stand up.

ps im 13 yrs old and a grubby little spongers hahaha

"thetwig" wrote:

Well PABLO if u think surfers are better than body boarders u've got ROCKS in ur head it takes just as much skill to bodge as it does to surf... U have no respect for your fellow water dwellers and have no right to judge there skill level i would think by your brain capacity u would have no talent on a surf board and should stick to the shore line where people like you belong!

By: "shaun"

It's ok twiggy not everyone hates lids, I mean how many lid riders keep surfing past about their early twentys so be thankful the little morons didn't stand up they'd be
surfing for life. I've gotta theory about gut sliders, that they mostly come from broken homes where there's no father figure about to tell them to grow up and stand up.

Well shaun the sheep my dads a 48 year cock dragger and i made him do it! But now he wants a mini mal hes such a sheep!

I think 35 years in the surf gives me some rights out there.
I have surfed all over the world.
So if you do join forces and give me heaps I will employ my tatics of actually taking every wave that comes through and close all the gaps so you get none. .

By: "adam"

It doesn't matter how long you have been surfing for. We all have the same rights.

It doesn't matter where in the world you have surfed.This just makes you sound arrogant.
Like someone who thinks they are important saying" do you know who i am"

What tactics exactly would you employ? Once again more arrogance.

^^^
yeah definately, 35 yrs in the water should just mean that you know the rules better, ie you should be encouraging proper ettiquete rather than showing everyone how to ignore it.

35 years in the water should mean your experience will get you more waves rather that you have a right to the waves.

Ive been surfing about 10 years, never occured to me that that that gives me more rights that another surfer. oooh and i ve surfed all over the universe pah so ive got more rights that you

"We all have the same rights."

I have the right to drive at 50km/hr on the freeway. I have the right to go through every item on my receipt at the check out. I have lots of rights that I choose not to exercise. People should consider that perspective in their surfing also. Just because you have a right doesn't make it wise to exercise it.

Well PABLO if u think surfers are better than body boarders u've got ROCKS in ur head it takes just as much skill to bodge as it does to surf... U have no respect for your fellow water dwellers and have no right to judge there skill level i would think by your brain capacity u would have no talent on a surf board and should stick to the shore line where people like you belong!

By: "thetwig"

Twig I could get on a lid tomorrow and be ripping by the afternoon, I,d love to see you do the same on a board. I think you,d be in for a rude awakening as to the skill levels involved.

Ha ha, bullshit Pablo. way to make an ignorant statement, I see your wording says could,,,, meaning that you havent actually done as you claim therefore your comment has no validity whatsoever. Everyone reealises that it takes more effort (duh its not required for BB unless for DK) to stand up than lie down but as far as drawing good lines reading sections and knowing how to hit the lip......then actually knowing how to perform a move , you being a faaaaaaaarkin tool, Anyway....what craft is being ridden has nothing to do with ettiquette as no craft has more rights than the other. If your not in priority spot for a wave, then dont try to ride it and risk hurting someone else with your stupidity and selfish behaviour