Has modern performance surfing passed it's peak on the current equipment available?
@southern hope you are well mate. Interesting subject matter. Bit of a hypothetical for you & anyone else. If it was possible to put AI & JJF out at the same break (solid all time conditions) at the same time, both at the peak of their powers, who is doing the higher performance surfing?
Cocaine allowed, rabbits?
I think JJF but prefer AI’s animalistic attack and style.
lostdoggy wrote:Cocaine allowed, rabbits?
Haha! Yep. How ever it was.
Dead heat,! :)
andy-mac wrote:Dead heat,! :)
That’s probably about right. Like LD said I reckon AI approach was just so mesmerizing & brutal yet so effective. Best of all time for me still. JJF air game before he got injured was amazing of course.
That is a very tough question rabbits.
I couldn’t split it.
Andy was an absolute psycho but I think JJF would go anything Andy would. Those outer reef tubes he got a couple years ago on his backhand were so nuts.
Both casual as anything in the tube.
Maybe Andy’s style edges out John.
If it was at pumping 10 foot pipe I reckon dead heat.
Fuck how good would that be to see though!
“Fuck how good would that be to see though!”
100% GF. Would be incredible!
With individual styles that are so subjective, at a certain point “performance” becomes a very difficult thing to rate I reckon.
phwoarrrr great question and some great replies @rabs and crew.
I've always maintained Andy is the best all round surfer that's ever graced our planet.
As good as JJF is, i think Andy has him on the backhand....big tubes yeah, but also his top to bottom surfing was so powerful and crisp, i just don't think JJF has that same access to pure raw power.
And Andy's style, so poised and straight on his board, ready to unleash. JJF definitely has the edge in the modern aerial stuff but i think Andy is untouchable in the rest of it.
Great question though and looking forward to seeing more replies to it.
“I've always maintained Andy is the best all round surfer that's ever graced our planet.”
Yeah I agree Southern. Love what JJF has done too but AI was something else again IMO.
Hear hear @rabs.
And then you could maybe throw Occy and Parko into that same mix.
Occy V A.I at 8foot plus flawless Bells,....Occs raw power and body mass did A.I in that heat.
And then bloody Parko. I still think there's an argument to be made that Parko is the most gifted and versatile surfer that's ever surfed on this planet. He was the full package and maybe bar A.I's completely balls to the wall approach at Pipe and Chopes,(and only just cos Parko charged big slabby lefts too) Parko was right there with him....and had an edge on him in style in my opinion.
Not to leave out some bloke called Mick, and Robert K as well. They both hold rightful places in the discussion.
southernraw wrote:Not to leave out some bloke called Mick, and Robert K as well. They both hold rightful places in the discussion.
Yeah I’d have to put KS ahead of JJF at this stage. You’ve thrown up some other great names that’s for sure. Both the TC’s too. Can of worms…
JJF or AI?
Put 'em both on 6'6 Ghosts and unleash 'em on 8ft Supers.
Then you'd find out.
AI all the way for me.
Just an animal.
PS Thanks Southern
Yeah agreed gents.
Woooo....A.I on a Ghost at 8ft supers...the mind boggles.
Both TCs for sure Rabs. Actually going right back...MP has to be in the mix too. Just an incredibly talented surfer. Was watching some old footage of him the other day and his surfing well and truly stacks up.
No takers on the Parko train?
Watch this vid at .25 speed if you get the chance....gives you an opportunity to observe Parkos poise and power, especially between and during turns...i think because of how relaxed his style was/is, it gets missed that what he does through his turns is mindboggling perfect. Him and AI were so similar in their style and approach.
Really got spoilt with incredible talent in that early 2000s era.
If we're going back, Wayne Lynch? Col Smith? Nat?
Parko made it look too easy, incredible surfer. TC snap at Pipe, but to me Curren still the most stylish of all.
Sunny Garcia was pure power too.
Anyway too many.
AI and JJF both animals...
Great contributions gents. Cheers.
I suppose the point of my hypothetical was in relation to performance levels & have they continued to advance since AI was at his peak? Then it would come down to what specific criteria was being used to measure performance. Too many variables to compare I guess let alone the subjective nature of some of it. Fun to mull over none then less.
@Southern, always reckoned Mick is our best ever, seen him a lot at Bells over the years and a couple of times from the shoulder at Snapper, definitely our best comp surfer, beyond freakish, cat like, but a big powerful cat. Such a good bloke and that JBay final when he dodged the pointer, (watched it live and jumped about a foot off the couch, shock of my life, bet it was for him too) somehow did more to raise surfing's mainstream profile here than all the world titles. That press conference him and Julian did when they got back, when all the press pack stood up and clapped them as they entered, tear to the eye stuff! Having said that, still probably prefer to watch Parko. Just a beautiful, powerful style and read on a wave. Mesmerising.
And old mate MP, him and maybe Lopez my first surfing heroes. Saw him absolutely destroying 6ft Bells Bowl live back in the 70's, probably the only year he didn't win it I think it was. Until Mick showed up a few generations later, the best I'd seen out there. Back in the old points for manoeuvre days, so different lines to Mick, but equally mind blowing.
I never knew back then he had the problems he did on land. Bought into the whole dark prince persona and that made him seem even cooler to me as a grommet. Some of his quotes "I could say but I won't", "PT told me it was down by the girl's dunnies so I was waiting down there" (when he skipped a Stubbies preso once I think), the legendary Hunter S. Thompsonesque road trip to Express Pt with Michael Ho. God I looked up to him back then. In '79 surfing Kirra for the first time, packed on the butter box, all the pro's out prepping for the 2nd Stubbies I think it was. Everyone was dropping in on Rabbit, was like a game with all his mates, all cackling with laughter. MR was out too, at the height of his powers, swooping. No one dropped in on MR. But I was disappointed. MP was the guy I wanted to see, nowhere in the line up. So getting changed afterwards in the carpark after getting barely a scrap (not used to that type of crowd density back then, never did get used to it actually) and my mate elbows me and points out this figure leaning in the shade against the wall of the Pizza Hut. There he was, the dark prince, aviator sunnies, knee length leather coat, just scoping the whole thing. Wish I had a camera and got a photo. Image is still seared in my brain today. Not long after that his personal tragedy did it's thing on him, and although he survived and made it back to the surfing world eventually, the dark prince never did.
Put a young fit MP out on a ghost in that AI, JJF heat at Supers too. That would be something.
Wow @adam12. For a moment there, i could see MP clear as day leaned up against the wall of the surfclub at Kirra in the shadows, taking it all in, leather and aviators.
Far out that was an epic read. So much to take out of that, and yep, pretty much agree on all points. Especially Mick. He's probably still my favourite oz surfer..him and Occ. Mick was just drawing lines and throwing elasticity into it that i'd never seen before but always imagined could be done. Which speaks to this threads title.
Geez some of those memories you've drawn upon and lived are part of surfing hall of fame legend. So sick to hear it through your eyes. The EP stories with M.Ho...and to think Mike is still charging to this day. Can imagine how intimidating and how in awe you would have been back then. Far out, i got to see him in real life, when he was presenting the trophies at one of the early Burleigh single fin classics.....i was just in awe. It was right near the dunny blocks where that famous pic of him kinda staggering was and i remember just being in awe of this monumental deity of surfing. Was so hard to make the connection though. I knew i was looking at the flesh and blood MP, but trying to connect that to the stories i have heard growing up...it was a long stretch. Still feel priveleged just to have witnessed him in the flesh and blood. Geez poor bugs copped it with the drop ins. No doubt he gave as good as he got though. And speaking of Bugs, probably another overlooked figure. Man he was good. Obviously, but overshadowed in that era by MPs enigma, there was nothing blase about Rabbits wave riding abilities. So much style and flair. Really brought flair onto the waves.
Just back to Bells, cos like most oz surfers, i have an incredible soft spot for her.....i think the best surfing i've ever seen in real life was Occy when he won in 1998, not the skins, but the actual ASP comp. It probably wasn't anything hall of fame, but to me, as a teenager, seeing this guy just take off on big wobbly 8ft semi onshore walls and completely destroy sections...it seemed the bigger the wave got the better he got, the harder he hit it. That's burned into my mind. There's just something about 0cc.
And i reckon you're bang on about Mick. I do recall distinctly watching one of the JBay finals with Mick and Parko and i was always a big Parko fan, but i saw that day that Mick was a level above....and really, he's got no weaknesses. People rubbish his air game, but anyone that's seen him over a long period of time knows that's not true. He can throw massive airs. It's just his on the face surfing is so much more superior....why would you waste your time doing tricks when you can do that?
Yeah was in a cabin in the Broomes head caravan park watching the shark live too. Was up on the top bunk for better reception and saw it all unfold. All i remember is yelling at my computer...'get the boat...get the boat'.
When talking about the most famous waves in history, i think the wave that blocked Mick after the initial interaction must surely be the most famous wave in surfing history. I know it had me on the edge of my seat in pure dread.
Thank goodness it panned out the way it did. I was traumatized after that as i'm sure many were. Not sure if i'd have gotten in the water for a long time if things went the other way...live.
ahh by the way!! Wanted to address the MP on a 6'6" Ghost at 6-8ft Supers.
Can you imagine. He'd be doing 2 drawn out bottom turns where surfers now would be doing one.
It's actually something worth closing your eyes and imagining....MP with all that firepower under his feet. We were robbed!! Love these different threads coming out of this.. Cheers all.
@Southern, quick reply (I'm still on a self imposed SN ban FFS)
Yeah, fuck, forgot about Occ, and TC, actually witnessed the famous heat they had at Bells too. Occ won that I thought at the time, first time I'd witnessed backhand power like that in the flesh. Another freak of freaks.
And that Supers super heat, reckon old mate MP would have won it before it started, would've rattled JJF off his game just standing at the keyhole that's for sure,"You're a fkn kook and I'm gonna smoke you", or maybe with an apparent no show only to have him drifting down the point outta nowhere after the heat had started, picking up a set wave and speeding past them, maybe giving them both the finger as he did.
Epic stuff letting the mind wander over all that indeed.
Love this thread.
haha all good Adam12.
That's epic you were there for the famous of most famous heats. Glad you gave Occ the nod too! I agree...in a head to head on serious sized waves, i reckon Occs got TC on pure straight line power. The amount of energy he can hold through those bottom turns and then unleash on sections is...well second to none
Haha. yes....JJF may indeed shrivel at an MP mindgame. But i reckon JJF is way more competitive than we give him credit for. I can almost imagine him laughing quietly and saying under his breath...'oh yeah,...watch this' and going and completely demoralizing MP. Fark it's a tantalising prospect, and should it ever unfold in any of my next lives, i hope i'm there with pop corn! I'll definitely report back to SN forums if i am so lucky ;-)
Alright....run for the hills @adam12. Take some time.
Might do the same. Had my fun :-D
Will enjoy reading more perspective from a distance for a bit. Cheers!
One of best surfers I ever saw live, and seen a few after living on Goldie and Bali for years was Margo.
As good as any other pro when he was at his peak I reckon, just didn't have comp mongrel in him.
Fanning in Red Monkey Full Moon at Gland is flawless.
Some ASU pre earth quake I believe.
https://m.
Tommy Carroll's surfing in this clip stacks up against the very best from 2024 in my opinion...and in some ways, is actually better.
Again....can handle and manouver a big board and damn it looks good.
Was watching some footage of John John Florence at Rocky Point last night and it got me thinking...(link below)
It was good sized Rockys....6ft plus, barreling, plenty of power, pretty much the perfect canvas for peak surfing..with a fully fit JJF at the peak of his powers. Yet, despite me still oooohing and ahhing over his huge gouges on the face (how can you not), it struck me...i'm not seeing anything different. Fark yeah, JJF blows my mind, and in my opinion is the best surfer on the planet by far....but i'm not seeing the envelope being pushed any further. And i think he's the best on the planet. So who's surfing better than him?
To cast our minds back, it was Margs a few years back that JJF brought those huge open faced carves to a level never seen before. And it blew us all away. But what's followed since? It seems that if JJF is the pinnacle of surfing, then, not much has risen above him in the way of performance since what's been displayed over the last 4 years.
So my question is, is the best of modern day perfromance surfing behind us? Is there someone else i'm missing that is pushing performance levels above what we've seen? My main big question is,....have we reached the absolute peak...maximum peak of what the current modern day equipment allows surfers to do on a wave face??? What else can be done?
It's a sobering thought.
And if that's the case..where to next for surfboards/surf equipment?
Time to think outside the box?
I actually had the best idea came to me tonight....after years of dwelling on the idea.....i have seen a possibility to make it happen.
Need to work on it though with a few crew and see if it's possible. But it's very different and outside the box....but could completely transform surfing. hehe. Or not. Just an idea.
Anyway....interested in all thoughts. And ideas if you have some!
Crazier the better in my opinion.