Australia - you're standing in it
If demographics = destiny, this one's a doozy, good report from ABC.:
The demo at the start is an eye opener.
In the past we've seen Serpentza's motorbike rides through seemingly abandoned citys, learned they are easier to sell unfurnished/unfinished, and we've had US hawks like Kyle Bass address this issue.
Luckily for Australia, we have a fully diversified economy that doesn't rely on any one in particular trading partner...
gsco wrote:I’d say the main reason in the case of utilities is that these assets are too close to being natural monopolies.
Basic orthodox economics talks at length about these and many other kinds of market failure and the appropriate government response.
It’s a good example of a political ideology (neoliberalism, prob more accurately described as a religious cult) ignoring basic economics, resulting in suboptimal outcomes for society.
But state ownership of natural monopolies is not socialism, just basic orthodox economic science.
Socialism is just another religious cult ignorant of orthodox economic science, but “in the other direction” to the neoliberal cult.
Therefore, certain aspects of socialism make perfect economic and social sense.
AndyM wrote:gsco wrote:I’d say the main reason in the case of utilities is that these assets are too close to being natural monopolies.
Basic orthodox economics talks at length about these and many other kinds of market failure and the appropriate government response.
It’s a good example of a political ideology (neoliberalism, prob more accurately described as a religious cult) ignoring basic economics, resulting in suboptimal outcomes for society.
But state ownership of natural monopolies is not socialism, just basic orthodox economic science.
Socialism is just another religious cult ignorant of orthodox economic science, but “in the other direction” to the neoliberal cult.
Therefore, certain aspects of socialism make perfect economic and social sense.
There's no aspects of it that make economic sense. In this case socialism calls for the public ownership of all of the means of production (and property), which just happens to include natural monopolies.
And that's not even the worst part. The central tenet of socialism is victim mentality. We are all victims of oppression by the capitalist system, the capitalists themselves, the bourgeoisie, the wealthy elite, asset and land owners, etc.
The central tenet of the woke movement is also victim mentality.
What a complete cringeworthy fucking joke of a cult, which would actually be funny if it wasn't so dangerous.
Love that post @gsco. Spot on.
Surely you accept that the extremes of the left and the right are on a continuous spectrum and somewhere towards the middle is the mythical nirvana that you me most people can live with?
Your argument seems to lump the worst aspects of communism in with what I see as extremely minor forms of socialist traits eg public ownership of utilities etc or do you see communism and socialism as one and the same thing?
flollo wrote:Love that post @gsco. Spot on.
Yep especially about the victim mentality, so many people crave being victims these days, i guess for attention and even a type of power.
GuySmiley wrote:Surely you accept that the extremes of the left and the right are on a continuous spectrum and somewhere towards the middle is the mythical nirvana that you me most people can live with?
Your argument seems to lump the worst aspects of communism in with what I see as extremely minor forms of socialist traits eg public ownership of utilities etc or do you see communism and socialism as one and the same thing?
Yes, sure to your 1st paragraph. The centre is the place to be, and I think the Nordic/Scandinavian countries and Switzerland demonstrate this (I’d sell up and move to Switzerland tomorrow if it had surf).
I’d agree with some descriptions floating round the net that socialism is the more general term and communism defines a particular possibly more extreme or pure implementation of it.
In passing I just got back from a little work trip to China and when the face-to-face conversation drifted towards politics nearly every one of them expressed concern that China was heading back towards its socialist past. No Chinese person wants to revisit that past.
Gsco you say that some of the basic tenets of socialism are economic orthodoxy then you say that no aspects of it make economic sense.
Sounds like it’s you that’s not making sense.
the centre is most definitely the place for most people... even if they know it or not...
the problem we have now is, the extremes are what dominate any conversation
and whilst 'the left' like to portray everything in the current conversation as 'far right' or that everything is moving to the far right... the reality is, the right and the so called 'far right' are pretty much where they have always been... miserable, probably racist, individualistic, and totally about small government and less taxes etc...
meanwhile, 'the left' has danced further and further into the fairy garden of post modernism... where statistics and presentation of any 'reality' is dismissed as some kind of archaic measure and thinking, that is totally out of vogue and the domain of stupid old school academics that are past their used by date...
we see this with research that obsesses over minority voices and a focus on their 'lived experiences'...
which has led to such gems as:
'mathematics is white supremacy'
'science is white supremacy'
'striving for excellence is white supremacy'
'asian students dominating high scores for university is white supremacy'
'asian people getting beaten up in the street is white supremacy'
these are very american examples, but the contagion has hit our shores, with the likes of the dogma through the blm madness, where things like that aboriginal deaths in custody are far higher than white deaths in custody is accepted as fact and widely reported as such in our media - when a cursory glance of statistics will prove otherwise...
it is most interesting that an asian class action about them being discriminated against in US elite universities has found some traction and proved true.
from my perspective, this dance into the fairy garden has come about as some desperate attempt to explan as to why black americans are still under represented at universities despite decades and decades of affirmative action type policies
this 'research' seems to totally overlook the culture and family units of black americans versus asian americans, and I think it was thomas sorrell that pointed this out
there was also several other black academics that totally rejected this thinking that 'mathematics is white supremacy', pointing out that much of the significant developments in mathematics through history have come from the arab world
they also abhored this thinking and practice, saying it leads to a culture of low expectations amongst black communities, and is total antithesis to the elegance of mathematics knowledge more widely
a 'victim mentality' in practice....
noel pearson has made similar arguments here, pointing out the miserable assumptions of an 'ideal' unemployement rate of 5%, and how BOTH labor and liberals have accepted aboriginal people's position in it, and the poverty and limited opportunies that comes with this thinking
post modernism is a useful tool, but the nutty marxists of today, have taken all these things way too far
and are easily laughed at and dismissed...
if one still believes in the value of statistics and the like...
and, just for the record, I'm not opposed to affirmative action type policies
but, lets call a spade a spade...
and listen to these black academics, that point out that class is a much more determining factor in terms of student / life outcomes
and the hurdles that certain groups face on the way
as I said before...
economics... neoliberalism.... contemporary left... baby flies with bath water...
on so many fronts
it's all hilary's fault!
"peak neoliberalism"
"peak identity politics"
and yet 'the troupe' ...are still dancing for their handful of peanuts...
AndyM wrote:Gsco you say that some of the basic tenets of socialism are economic orthodoxy then you say that no aspects of it make economic sense.
Sounds like it’s you that’s not making sense.
Socialism has only one basic tenet: victim mentality. It’s not part of modern orthodox economic science.
gsco wrote:AndyM wrote:Gsco you say that some of the basic tenets of socialism are economic orthodoxy then you say that no aspects of it make economic sense.
Sounds like it’s you that’s not making sense.Socialism has only one basic tenet: victim mentality. It’s not part of modern orthodox economic science.
What about, laziness, jealousy & self entitlement.???
Two fellas who have never read a Wiki entry, never mind anything more substantial.
Some sense you are speaking there sypkan.
Also correct about the Arab world having a major influence on early mathematics.
yes making good sense Sypkan. But I had no idea what you meant by
'mathematics is white supremacy'
So, having a Masters and PhD in pure math, and spending half my working life as a professional mathematician, I decided to google the sentence.
And OMFG it turned up an endless supply of disgusting, appalling communist social justice culture wars internet content with headings and sentences like:
- math is a “harbor for whiteness” and “the very nature of the knowledge and who’s produced it, and what has counted as mathematics is itself dominated by whiteness and racism.”
- a focus on producing the right answer promotes “white supremacy culture”
- In California, 2+2=4 May Be Thought Racist
- Focusing on the correct answer in maths ‘is racist’
- Woke Educators Release Letter Declaring Objective Math a Form of ‘White Supremacy’
- Now MATH is racist: Educators condemn $1M 'Dismantling Racism in Mathematics' program funded by Bill Gates which tells teachers NOT to push students to find the correct answer because it promotes white supremacy
Holy fuck...I don't know what to say.
There is absolutely no end to the lengths the communist left is going in western civilisation to interpret every corner of life as heterosexual capitalist Christian white male supremacy, exploitation and oppression, and try to dismantle and convert western civilisation to socialism.
"Holy fuck...I don't know what to say", my sentiments exactly. I'm only a meer engineer but to me that also implies that anything associated or connected to mathematics is a “harbour for whiteness” and a focus on producing the right answer promotes “white supremacy culture”.
Physics is feeling left out and wants to join the woke maths group
Crazy stuff. Thanks for bringing it up sypkan.
We can watch the veneer of civilisation being peeled back in the face of increased inequality, cultural histories of violence, and probably less valuing of mathematics here, this is a couple of years ago and is absolutely full on. Add into that mind boggling corruption, and the entrenchment of marxist parties as ruling classes:
Tim sounds like a top bloke!
Future LNP pollie material there!
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/sep/14/tim-gurner-ceo-com...
andy-mac wrote:Tim sounds like a top bloke!
Future LNP pollie material there!https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/sep/14/tim-gurner-ceo-com...
I agree with Mr Gurner in that we need to see pain. But more along the lines of 1930's great depression pain. Where people who had nothing had nothing to lose, but people who had everything (cue Tim Gurner) lost everything. We all know how well the rich set handled that financial setback during those terrible years.
garyg1412 wrote:andy-mac wrote:Tim sounds like a top bloke!
Future LNP pollie material there!https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/sep/14/tim-gurner-ceo-com...
I agree with Mr Gurner in that we need to see pain. But more along the lines of 1930's great depression pain. Where people who had nothing had nothing to lose, but people who had everything (cue Tim Gurner) lost everything. We all know how well the rich set handled that financial setback during those terrible years.
Haha ya had me concerned after the first sentence!!
velocityjohnno wrote:We can watch the veneer of civilisation being peeled back in the face of increased inequality, cultural histories of violence, and probably less valuing of mathematics here, this is a couple of years ago and is absolutely full on. Add into that mind boggling corruption, and the entrenchment of marxist parties as ruling classes:
That Marcus Garvey quote comes to mind:
“Hungry men have no respect for law, authority or human life.”
Garyg1412. Hi. How’s things ?
It’s always intrigued and humoured me that individuals like this cockhead Gurner, never appear to be struggling at all in life, but feel compelled (massive egos) to talk down and somewhat lecture others on how to live or make an economically sound life. Not everyone is interested in money or being obsessed with it, you either have it or you don’t.
Totally depends on your perspective on life and what you really VALUE. Surely there’s more to life than money, otherwise, why exist.
So easy for idiots like him to lecture from their ivory tower, but they have to come down that ladder at some stage, please heed caution, you wouldn’t want to stand on a pleb, they’re a bit squishy between your toes I’m told. Wanker. AW
Jeez, what a dickhead.
.
AlfredWallace wrote:Garyg1412. Hi. How’s things ?
It’s always intrigued and humoured me that individuals like this cockhead Gurner, never appear to be struggling at all in life, but feel compelled (massive egos) to talk down and somewhat lecture others on how to live or make an economically sound life. Not everyone is interested in money or being obsessed with it, you either have it or you don’t.
Totally depends on your perspective on life and what you really VALUE. Surely there’s more to life than money, otherwise, why exist.So easy for idiots like him to lecture from their ivory tower, but they have to come down that ladder at some stage, please heed caution, you wouldn’t want to stand on a pleb, they’re a bit squishy between your toes I’m told. Wanker. AW
I’m very confident in saying that Australia has a good balance between lifestyle and money. And it should always stay like that (and improve of course). This guy is a complete idiot, an extremist pushing for something that nobody wants. Trust me, you can give your life to the company but no one cares once you’re gone. Someone else takes your spot and the life moves on. And people know that well so no one normal will follow this moron.
flollo wrote:AlfredWallace wrote:Garyg1412. Hi. How’s things ?
It’s always intrigued and humoured me that individuals like this cockhead Gurner, never appear to be struggling at all in life, but feel compelled (massive egos) to talk down and somewhat lecture others on how to live or make an economically sound life. Not everyone is interested in money or being obsessed with it, you either have it or you don’t.
Totally depends on your perspective on life and what you really VALUE. Surely there’s more to life than money, otherwise, why exist.So easy for idiots like him to lecture from their ivory tower, but they have to come down that ladder at some stage, please heed caution, you wouldn’t want to stand on a pleb, they’re a bit squishy between your toes I’m told. Wanker. AW
I’m very confident in saying that Australia has a good balance between lifestyle and money. And it should always stay like that (and improve of course). This guy is a complete idiot, an extremist pushing for something that nobody wants. Trust me, you can give your life to the company but no one cares once you’re gone. Someone else takes your spot and the life moves on. And people know that well so no one normal will follow this moron.
Follo. Hi. I recall a landscape client i had in the early 90’s, who had worked at Chef cooktops and ovens for his entire life.
He was about 68-70 years old, never married , lived on his own. A couple of days into the job, he came out the front where we were laying paving and quietly started a conversation with me. I asked what he’d done in life and he explained he’d gone straight from tech school to Chef.
He begins orating his story and he slowly sunk into sorrow and became a crying mess, finally resting on my shoulder, I’m thinking WTF.
He stated he worked 52 years straight, never late for work etc.
He exclaimed to me whilst sobbing, that he gave Chef 52 of his best years and when he finished up, there was nothing from administration, but just one good bye from a relatively new staff member. He was a shattered man.
Ive been an employee and an employer, it’s always a tenuous relationship, you can leave any day or be sacked any day, it’s all about being able to balance on that high tight-rope. Good stuff. AW
Whaddya make of his ‘apology’? What a cockhead. CEOs lecturing workers on arrogance and entitlement….
etarip wrote:Whaddya make of his ‘apology’? What a cockhead. CEOs lecturing workers on arrogance and entitlement….
Etarip. Hi . Yep, is one and will always be one. AW
Cocaine
Ha. I’ve personally experienced the (multiple) grandiose rantings of a coke head. You may be right!
good to see there are people out there, including foundational economic institutions like the RBA and in this case the productivity commission, fighting back against the socialist left agenda in Australia as driven by the ALP.
It has been concluded time and time again that the single most important determining factor of improved living standards is productivity growth, driven by technological advance and intelligent economic decisions, etc. The ALP is getting everything economically backwards, upside down, inside out, the wrong way around, etc, once again:
Labour’s share of income for 95pc of workers outside of mining and agriculture had declined by less than 1 percentage point over the past 27 years, [the commission] says.
Some sceptics have questioned the importance of productivity growth in driving real wages... The policy implication seems to be that sustained real wage increases can be secured with little or no reference to productivity growth – and that productivity-enhancing reforms don’t matter for living standards and should not be pursued. These commentators are wrong.
Workers get fair share of pie, says PC as it busts wages myth
Union claims that workers are not receiving their fair share of business productivity gains have been debunked by new Productivity Commission research that shows 95 per cent of workers are getting pay rises broadly in line with productivity growth.
But an economy-wide deterioration in labour productivity growth since the fast-growing 1990s – built on major economic reforms and technology advances – means Australians have missed out on a potential annual real income rise of $25,000.
Most industries are sharing productivity gains with workers, except for mining and agriculture, where there has been “wage decoupling” due to a boom in commodity export prices.
Mining and agriculture combined accounted for only 4 per cent of workers, the commission said in the new report to be released on Friday.
But for more than nine in 10 workers, the link between real wages and productivity growth remained robust.
Productivity Commission acting chairman Alex Robson said productivity growth remained the best and only way for governments to increase real wages, improve living standards and guarantee Australia’s future prosperity.
“Some sceptics have questioned the importance of productivity growth in driving real wages, pointing to the phenomenon of ‘wage decoupling’ that has emerged in some advanced economies,” he said, writing in The Australian Financial Review.
“The policy implication seems to be that sustained real wage increases can be secured with little or no reference to productivity growth – and that productivity-enhancing reforms don’t matter for living standards and should not be pursued. These commentators are wrong.”
Labor campaigned at the last election to lift wages, arguing the Coalition had deliberately suppressed the pay of workers.
The potent claim has formed the basis for the Albanese government’s re-regulation of the workplace. Last year it expanded multi-employer bargaining and now has legislation before parliament that seeks to expand rights for regular casuals to convert to permanent roles, ensure labour hire workers are paid the same as direct employees, strengthen rights for unions to enter workplaces, and put in place minimum conditions for “gig” workers.
The commission’s research suggests the prime reason for moderate pay rises over the past decade is a slowdown in productivity growth to a 60-year low.
The report rejects analysis by the Australian Council of Trade Unions and Canadian economist Jim Stanford, who has written about the declining labour income share in Australia that has been promoted by the left-leaning Australia Institute’s The Centre for Future Work.
They have also promoted the idea that excess business profits are driving up inflation, a claim rejected by the Reserve Bank of Australia and federal Treasury.
The commission said employee compensation had generally kept up with corporate profits when mining is excluded.
Labour productivity – the amount of output per hour worked – is at its lowest since 2016, after going backwards for the past three years of the pandemic.
Over the last decade, Australia’s productivity growth has averaged 1.1 per cent a year – the slowest in 60 years.
The commission said that for 95 per cent of workers, had productivity growth been maintained from 1995 to 2023 at the 2.2 per cent average level recorded in the 1990s, then real annual average incomes would be $25,000 higher.
In comparison, closing the small “wage decoupling” gap for 95 per cent of workers would have lifted real incomes by $3000.
Labour’s share of income for 95 per cent of workers outside of mining and agriculture had declined by less than 1 percentage point over the past 27 years, the commission said.
Wage “decoupling” from productivity gains was non-existent or negligible in more than half of industries, including manufacturing, electricity, gas, water and waste services, wholesale trade, information media and telecommunications, financial and insurance services, real estate services, administration, education and training, and healthcare.
Economists have offered various possible reasons for the productivity slowdown. These include hoarding of excess labour in a tight labour market, the rise of work from home, the shift from manufacturing to a service economy, business managers failing to adopt new technologies to make workers more efficient, too much red tape on firms, a global productivity slowdown and a natural decline in technology advancements since the invention of one-off breakthroughs such as motor vehicles, electrification and the internet.
Property developer Tim Gurner ignited international controversy this week at The Australian Financial Review Property Summit by blaming weak productivity on tradies slacking off and having too much bargaining power with bosses.
A jump in the unemployment rate and “pain” in the economy would help revive productivity and contain costs, he said.
Westpac Business Bank senior economist Pat Bustamante said that, without an improvement in productivity, business costs would continue to increase and make the labour cost of each unit of output more expensive. This would “reduce the attractiveness associated with hiring more labour” and could contribute to an expected rise in unemployment.
“A sustained pickup in productivity growth takes time,” he said in a new research note.
“Productivity is usually supported by structural reform, greater competition, and a larger capital stock to house the bigger population – things that take time to implement and flow through the economy.”
Dr Robson cast doubt on claims that the misuse of market power in labour and goods markets by business was causing the productivity slowdown, saying the arguments were “incomplete”.
Assistant Minister for Competition Andrew Leigh has said business concentration is contributing to price mark-ups and may be depressing the wages of workers.
Dr Robson said: “The benefits of productivity growth include lower prices and a greater variety and quality of goods and services.
“Even better, it also allows for greater freedom of choice to spend less time working – including the ability to comfortably retire at a reasonable age – a point underscored in the recent Intergenerational Report.
“But perhaps most significantly for households doing it tough, labour productivity is one of the most important drivers of real wage growth.”
Hahaha that is very droll. An article from the Fin View supporting the RBA and the PC, who would have thought…
Here's some visuals on productivity growth: GDP per capita that show what a disaster the last 20 years have been for the country:
https://www.macrobusiness.com.au/2023/09/a-lost-century-confronts-austra...
1st, chart: real GDP per capita vs 2002 Intergenerational Report prediction: despite mining boom, very big underperformance compared to projection
2nd, table: we have arrived at our population size projected by the 2002 ABS estimates 28 years early!
3rd, Chart: Australian GDP per capita growth - absolute shocker, huge downward trend since 2001.
4th, chart: real wages: after the horrible fall of the last 2 years (inflation), not a great deal of growth over 20 years
It seems we chose the other path rather than productivity gains, and 'clever country'. If these trends continue, a material reduction in living standards for Australians will result. To overcome this, I'd muse it would be best to get as productive as you possibly can (*reminder: housing is not productive once built) despite overall policy to the contrary - for the country.
Productivity down, life expectancy up
https://www.aihw.gov.au/reports/life-expectancy-deaths/deaths-in-austral...
Productivity is for robots . Typical economic drivel still stuck in the old world with their dusty text books
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-03-21/finland-worlds-happiest-nation-wo...
We're a pretty happy bunch
See you all down the beach then :) It's a good choice for lack of stress.
But I think you're missing that the country has chosen the lower productivity path in policy choice - not yours individually along with life expectancy bonus, but rather the way the country achieves growth through policy; and we've papered over this by very large population increase.
and then there is this...
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-09-03/labor-wage-theft-jail-fine-employ...
and this ..."while labour income inequality has been on the decline, overall income inequality in Australia has been rising since the mid-1990s".
https://treasury.gov.au/sites/default/files/2019-03/3-Income-Inequality-...
and
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-02-22/wages-growing-at-3-3-per-cent-dec...
"Volunteers contributed an estimated 489.5 million hours to the community in the last 12 months prior to the GSS survey in 2020:.
https://www.aihw.gov.au/reports/australias-welfare/volunteers
Is volunteering productive??
exactly SG.
CB policy wonks and their hangers on screaming socialism at anything that moves are still stuck in their idealistic neolib wetdreams 40 years ago.
wake up and smell the AI.
gsco wrote:good to see there are people out there, including foundational economic institutions like the RBA and in this case the productivity commission, fighting back against the socialist left agenda in Australia as driven by the ALP.
It has been concluded time and time again that the single most important determining factor of improved living standards is productivity growth, driven by technological advance and intelligent economic decisions, etc. The ALP is getting everything economically backwards, upside down, inside out, the wrong way around, etc, once again:
It's worth noting during the period 1996 to 2022 the LNP were in power for 20 of the 26 years.
good to see there are people out there, including foundational economic institutions like the RBA and in this case the productivity commission, fighting back against the socialist left agenda in Australia as driven by the ALP.It has been concluded time and time again that the single most important determining factor of improved living standards is productivity growth, driven by technological advance and intelligent economic decisions, etc. The ALP is getting everything economically backwards, upside down, inside out, the wrong way around, etc, once again:
Is that you Tim????
Can’t imagine the last PM responding like this. https://x.com/mfwitches/status/1704351576054530173?s=46&t=5RczxwAfzXe7hK...
andy-mac wrote:Tim sounds like a top bloke!
Future LNP pollie material there!https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/sep/14/tim-gurner-ceo-com...
Dodgy Mouth - Dodgy Product
https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/tim-gurner-luxury-brisbane-apar...
Fog cannons!
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-09-26/criminals-exploiting-...
This is what it looks like. Excuse my incredulity but couldn't you flog more stuff once everything gets foggy?
Is this what shopping has become?
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12564341/Woolworths-customer-sm...
The "I can't believe it's not politics" thread.