The United States(!) of A
let's just say The Southern Law and Poverty Centre have a certain way of thinking...
and a certain barrow to push....
that doesn't discredit all their work...
(they kinda did that themselves with some particularly hyperbolic claims...)
but a lot of it needs to be taken with a pinch of salt
I have no doubt certain 'hate crimes' are on the rise, but I also have no doubt most people, the vadt vast majority, are behaving particularly well under the circumstances
@Blowin,
Think you're mixing up James with Lachlan.
Also, reckon you may be misreading it a tad. The "powerful forces co-opting the media" also includes media owners.
Stu -I’d never heard of him before, just going off the article:
“Once thought of as Rupert's most likely successor, the junior Murdoch resigned from the board of News Corporation in August "due to disagreements over certain editorial content published by the company's news outlets and certain other strategic decisions”
@ etarip
"On your left / right violence thing. How did your call to ASIO go? They’ll be interested in your theory."
The conversation is about America we have not yet seen in Australia what we have seen in the USA with the extent of the radicalisation of the far left, but the signs are there that some areas of the far left in Australia are getting more extreme you can see this in particular with groups that raid farms and steal livestock or the tactics of Extinction rebellion, whom terrorism police in the UK listed as an extremist ideology, but they did back pedal from public/media pressure but lets be realistic the regulars even here would be on police watch list it would be crazy not too.
Or just in general with how far protest groups will go and the growing popularity among many young people especially on social media etc some pretty twisted far left ideology's like marxism, anarchism, true socialism and communism, we have also seen people here in Australia identify as Antifa https://www.theage.com.au/national/beneath-the-black-mask-inside-austral...
Its already been reported ASIO has been re-looking at how it labels things as the lines are being blurred on what is so called Right wing extremest and what is Left wing extremest, what is often called far right extremist these days really has little basis on being right wing, its just the easiest label to throw around.
Anyway this is from the ABC so it off course is still going to have some left bias and not paint a 100% complete picture but its still an interesting read https://www.abc.net.au/religion/does-the-radical-left-pose-a-security-th...
"Anyway ....I like this alias the best . Less slagging is nice "
Ha ha my exact thoughts.
I wonder what people think of Matt Taibbi's take on the media and it's role in maintaining division in USA.
He is pretty scathing, FR. interesting metaphor.
“News companies now clean world events like whalers, using every part of the animal, funnelling different facts to different consumers based upon calculations about what will bring back the biggest engagement kick,”
The pendulum has swung,
the scales thou tip,
If there was more people like Bernie,
the US could be totes hip.
good ol bernie, always measured, careful with his words, and reasonable... not once did he blame anyone, or slip into the land of gratuitious point scoring
geez the rest of the democrats could learn a lot from that man...
...and taibbi... right on the money, as always, the 'ecosystem' is fucked...
contaminated... with cnn and the msnbc's etc. just as culpable as anyone... which is kinda the main point I've been trying to make, ...not that the partisans notice...
then there it is in the comments... the 'liberals'... blame shifting, outraged, and demonising...
'dehumanising'
maybe, there's a mix of viewpoints in the comments.
Big difference to, say, Breitbart comments where it's 100% batshit crazy rwnj, 100% of the time.
There are gradations of madness in the US.
taibbi's comments are high grade, with a range of viewpoints, as you say
but there's still some morons in their defending msnbc and rachel maddow as 'quality' and 'journalist', the woman just spent four years in bat shit crazy hysterics, spreading the biggest lies, and the biggest misinformation campaign ever, that's not quality or journalism, that's exactly what taibbi is on about... but nah, these crew are still there, stuck to the bottom of the bowl... "it's all the other guy..."
one commenter nailed it, 30% of people are in cnn land, 30% of people are in fox land, and 40% float around seeking the truth...
don't be a 30 percenter, ...whatever the tribe...
be a floater, eat more fibre less shit
I enjoyed that Taibbi piece. Thanks.
Re 'floaters', I reckon there are fewer than 40% now, with the landscape hugely polarised. And every time you try to have a conversation about an issue, you'll automatically get lumped in with the other side, even if you're just attempting to present a balanced view.
Shitty times for proper debate.
it does make me feel grateful for the political/media landscape in Aus.
ABC may be tilted towards an "educated/leftwing/elite" view of things but you can get basic outline of the facts there and differing viewpoints.
It's not a silo of either left or right.
Tabbibi article was a great read. Thanks FR. The BTL comments were an interesting slice of the spectrum. Interesting to see the issue being debated quickly devolving along partisan lines.
James Murdoch comments on media's role in recent events in Washington and by implication a significant legacy of the life's work of a dangerous old fossil and political groupie called Rupert:
“The damage is profound,” he told the Financial Times in an interview. “The sacking of the Capitol is proof positive that what we thought was dangerous is indeed very much so. Those outlets that propagate lies to their audience have unleashed insidious and uncontrollable forces that will be with us for years."
In a subsequent statement issued jointly with his wife, Kathryn, they added: “Spreading disinformation – whether about the election, public health or climate change – has real world consequences. Many media property owners have as much responsibility as the elected officials who know the truth but instead choose to propagate lies.
“We hope the awful scenes we have all been seeing will finally convince those enablers to repudiate the toxic politics they have promoted once and forever.”
John Sullivan tells Rolling Stone Magazine his side of the story regarding his involvement with the protest at the Capitol building.
https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-features/ashli-babbitt-shoo...
"Re 'floaters', I reckon there are fewer than 40% now,"
yep, more like 10% in terms of accessing a broad media landscape
still a lot of floaters between the parties though I imagine - and this is what do es my head in - that the party faithfuls and their media enablers are so full of hubris, that they believe these floaters don't think they area bunch of lying cunts... because believe me they do...
they just hold their nose and vote
politicians have always been notorious liars, but with social media, professional PR, partisan media etc. those lies are now the most shameless of professional pre packaged propaganda, I seriously fear what comes next
especially with big tech's current power and proclivities
Interesting to note that James Packer referred to the Capital building imbroglio as a “ sacking “ whilst decrying the media’s failings regarding accuracy and contrived narratives.
The Capital wasn’t “ sacked “ , James . Rome was sacked , the Capital building was nothing more than public spectacle. It wasn’t the best political outcome for the US but exaggerating the situation in order to confect a response is exactly what you claim to be rallying against.
Perhaps I’m overreacting ? Maybe the scion of the world’s most powerful media tycoon and a a highly educated , careerist newspaper professional isn’t aware of the inherent differences in meaning between words ?
Er, Blowie, I think you mean James Murdoch, but good rant anyway.
Nicely spotted.
Sort of spoils my demand for accuracy a bit.
Thanks FR, Matt Taibbi's states the obvious the media end game has for some time been just business spinning a dollar with no standards using outrage as the hook.
It still baffles me why putters buy into the BS, still listen to serious Trump supporters and be baffled even more.
With the politics in the US money is the required vehicle to get elected and now with no limits large amounts are very important. With the requirement for repayment to the donors in support of their agenda's the Republicans have gone rouge and the Democrats some where right of the Australia Liberal party.
No wonder the Yanks are going mad few represent them.
With no one calling out Trump he has successfully brought fringe elements into the mainstream condoned by the GOP it will be interesting if the money follows.
"no-one calling out trump" , clearly you have never heard of the New York times, Washington post, cnn.. you can lead a horse to water,.. or maybe, there are none so blind..
Let alone Facebook, Twitter ,Google , Deutsche Bank , the European Union, virtually all transnational corporations etc etc.
But sure.....lone voice in the wilderness.
an interesting vid...
a much more realistic, and dare I say objective, account of events
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=242789347210428&id=100044380...
fwiw, not really my crowd - a bit too richie cunnigham meets god squad for me - but the vast vast majority certainly do not fit the term 'domestic terrorists'
I disagree that no-one calls out Trump, for reasons outlined above.
I do agree he has mainstreamed fringe/conspiracy elements as part of his constituency and how the GOP goes forwards with that will be an important part of the American story.
there's a QAnon chick elected.
she believes the other side are part of a satan worshipping cabal of paedophiles.
how does a democracy work with that kind of thinking?
how do you negotiate with that?
One article I read today described Joe Biden as a ''communist animated corpse''.
One article I read today described Joe Biden as a ''communist animated corpse''.
"I do agree he has mainstreamed fringe/conspiracy elements as part of his constituency and how the GOP goes forwards with that will be an important part of the American story."
is it trump though?
or is it just the ever developing dark corners of the internet?
he certainly hasn't shut it down, but he ain't peddled much of it either...
plus, there's a hell of a lot of traditionally 'left wing' type folks buying into this shit...
not to mention the new age and/or health nut once 'left wing' anti vaxxer type crew...
personally I see the new 'left's' tendency to censor and deplatform everything they find 'problematic' as contributing to this madness as much as anything else
people don't like lies and bullshit, and they most certainly don't like over meddling governments and do gooder types imposing on their lives. most people just want to be left alone to live their miserable oppresive lives, trump tapped into that shit big time...
and the left's reaction? ...(reactionary)... go harder, meddle more... in what seems to be a desperate attempt to preserve their ever contested ground... (entitled ground to them...)
...the reality is, most crew were never on board with their uber woke bullshit, and the last 10-15 years they've only lost more and more adherents and authority to such things...
yet they have fought tooth and nail, and upped the ante again and again right through trump's presidency
fucking delusional to say the least
"she believes the other side are part of a satan worshipping cabal of paedophiles."
it's really not that inconceivable...
jokes... kind of....
you're right, I don't reckon Trump created it.
but he deffo gave 'em a nudge and a "jump on the bus Gus" wink.
I don't disagree with the analysis.
I guess the question is where does the GOP go from here: do they keep going with Trumpy and the trying to herd all the conspiracy elements into their tent or do they go back to more mainstream Reaganist/Bush policies?
I think the republican exit polls might answer your question...
ie. the vast majority voted for trump rather than a traditional republican platform
I think they'll back it off, they kind of need to...
but trumpism will be a big part of it
tbh, I can see the republicans getting in next term whatever they present
the democrats have set themselves up an impossible agenda, and biden is just too weak and pathetic to facillitate it, ...someone else they may have had a chance...
maybe harris will ride in on her darker shade of white horse mid term and save the day...
but I can't see it myself
all this talk of 'healing' and 'uniting', and they've just continued down the same toxic path
banning and impeaching trump is just all kinds of dumb...
https://www.news.com.au/world/north-america/us-politics/dumb-decision-tr...
the democrats seriously seem totally void of any political nouse whatsoever
still..
Freeride.....perhaps you’re forgetting that the Vice President elect publicly and unashamedly claimed that her fellow DNC candidate Tulsi Gabbard was a Russian Agent when you are taking stock of how mind numbing weirdness is allowed to run unopposed in mainstream US civic life ?
That shit goes all the way to the top on both sides.
Look - Trump is fckn whacko. You just have to look at his hair to comprehensively understand that but Kamala Harris is paraded as a paragon of astuteness.
Seriously.....imagine Scomo claiming Albo was a Russian agent . Scomo wouldn’t be able to show his face at Shark park ever again.
PS - And that’s after taking into account the realities of Gladys Liu , Joel Fitzgibbon, Sam Dastytari , Michael Sukkar etc etc etc etc etc etc
“ You’all know who to hire for your realtor...”
Totally sane.
https://twitter.com/alanfeuer/status/1350123165557645313/photo/1
it's shameful the way Tulsi was treated.
beyond shameful
she's literally the best thing they've got
ticks more boxes than kamala, including the fetish ones...
had to shut her down somehow I guess... she really did have a wide appeal going on...
I honestly cannot think of one thing the democrats have gotten right in four years of trump in terms of setting up for a long term agenda
reactionary to the extreme
I guess that's what happens when you are consumed with hate
(and desperately preserving a totally flawed MO of corruption to the core)
Tulsi doesn’t suit the Democrats agenda , she was anti war
War and chaos in foreign countries often benefits the USA hence both parties are pro war
- sell arms
- prevents certain countries and regions developing too much power and ability to counter US interests
- limit their economies to develop sophisticated industries to compete in their local and export markets.
Both parties have long understood this Their foreign policy makes no sense until you look at it from this perspective.
The apparent middle east chaos over past decades is quietly viewed as a success in the halls of government and corporate America.
They may appear hopeless and even stupid to the casual observer but in their view success can be a pro US regime or if that does not work out
chaos is a pretty good second option. Iraq and Iran are good examples.
Have a read of the concept of Realism in international relations - it dominates policy. In simple terms one country or block of countries must dominate. If such leadership weakens another country or group will move in to take the leadship role. So in simple terms at the moment this school of thought views the current options as US centric or if not most likely China centric. Centric = domination. Long term they see no middle road with peaceful outcomes. It is a bit like a gang turf war.
Recent attempts to export democracy and try a more cum ba ya approach under Clinton failed re-inforcing the realism viewpoint that there is little alternative.
That the world works like this is not something that gives much joy but it helps in a way to understand that there is more logic rather than stupidity at work in international relations than often appears to be the case.
The USA as your overlord or China? Realism see it as a stark choice of two options at the moment.
Two classic and unlikely Trump fans Diamond and Silk :D
Ain't nobody got time for that indo.
I wonder if Joe might keep his head down, stay in the basement so to speak, and try and capitalise on Trump fatigue. People are exhausted by the chaos of a Trump presidency.
just try and get the pandemic under control and try and lower the temperature for a bit.
maybe, maybe not.
People like stability
""no-one calling out trump" , clearly you have never heard of the New York times, Washington post, cnn.. you can lead a horse to water,.. or maybe, there are none so blind.."
Yeah good point LL(as he walks back slowly)
True endless opinion / commentary on Trump and his behaviour but nothing written or said has changed the direction / tone,
Trump has careened on regardless until the breaching of the capitol, with the laying of charges against those involved the GOP may be tempted use impeachment at this moment to try and separate Trump from the 70 million who voted for him.
At that point Trump becomes the "useful idiot"
Not quite US related, but how hard core is Navalny going back to Russia
https://time.com/5930464/alexei-navalny-moscow/
Epic accounting from a Pulitzer Prize winning journalist :
“Pulitzer prize-winning journalist Glenn Greenwald, formerly of The Intercept, gave his broad assessment and predictions of the incoming Joe Biden administration during Chris Hedges' Sunday show On Contact.
"I don’t think it’s particularly difficult... to know what to expect from the Biden administration," Greenwald told Hedges early in the interview, which focused on both the growing immense power of Silicon Valley as well as an expected return to disastrous foreign policy thinking under Obama.
Biden is "somebody who has repeatedly supported militarism and imperialism" given also he was "one of the crucial leading advocates of the invasion of Iraq," Greenwald said. At the same time Biden is "a loyal servant of the credit card and banking industry" on the domestic front.
Greenwald has long been a thorn in the side of Liberals, given his politics are Left yet he's a foremost fierce critic of the Democratic establishment, unwilling to buy into the blind hyperpartisanism that often defines public discourse in America.
As an example of his willingness to be radically independent and buck the simplistic discourse, he again went after those among Democrats feigning progressive politics while imposing censorship in the name of anti-Trumpism.
Greenwald told Hedges in this fresh interview:
"The most disturbing event yet beyond as we discussed earlier, Facebook and Twitter's unity in blocking the New York Post reporting [on Hunter Biden], is the fact that Amazon, Apple, and Google, three of the four companies that a Democratic House Subcommittee, just three months ago, declared to be dangerous, monopolist, and illegal anti-trust, anti-competitors in a really comprehensive report that they issued, united to remove from the internet a competitor to Twitter, and Facebook, and Instagram that had become the most popular app downloaded on the Apple Store, which is Parler, on the grounds that Parler played a role in inciting or agitating for the capital breach and the riot that occurred on January 6th, even though it was their own properties like Google's YouTube and Facebook that played a much, much bigger role. They simply destroyed a competing platform at the urging of people like Congressman Ro Khanna, Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez. They issued demands for it on Twitter, and within 72-hours, Parler was gone from the internet."
And here's more on what to expect of President-Elect Biden, set to enter the White House January 20, based on the RT interview with Glenn Greenwald...
On Militarism, Imperialism, Corporatism
Greenwald: "Joe Biden has been at the national political level since 1972. So we're talking about essentially 50 years. He has a very clear record of who he is, somebody who has repeatedly supported militarism and imperialism. He obviously was one of the crucial leading advocate in the invasion of Iraq as Chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee in 2002. He, coming from Delaware, has been a very loyal servant of the credit card and banking industry, architecting the bill that Elizabeth Warren said made her so angry that she entered politics, which was the bill that made it much more difficult for consumers to discharge debt and bankruptcy. Obviously, he is the architect of the 1994 Crime Bill, which is so ironic in a year when we had months and months of protests, largely from the Left against the police state and against racist police abuses, that the person who is probably more responsible than any other single person for that became the person behind whom they rallied."
"And then you add on to that eight years of the Obama administration of which Biden was a crucial part of that, as you said, which he's clearly attempting consciously to replicate. I think people have forgotten what the Obama administration is like. The Democrats are very good at creating a brand that is radically different than the reality. But essentially the Democratic Party serves militarism, imperialism, and corporatism. That's who funds them. That's what they believe in. It's why you see neocons migrating so comfortably back to the Democratic Party, why you see... operatives cheering for Joe Biden, why Wall Street celebrated when he picked Kamala Harris, who of course has her own background as a harsh prosecutor. I think it's very easy to see exactly who they are."
Biden's Neoliberal Policies to Fuel Rise Of a "Smarter more stable version of Donald Trump"
Greenwald: "I think you see the dangers of--that neoliberal mentality, that neoliberal ideology in not just United States but entirely--basically throughout the democratic world. Here in Brazil where I live, people always ask me how is it possible that a country that elected a center-left Workers Party from 2002 until 2014, so essentially four consecutive national elections, suddenly lurched to this far-right extremism in Jair Bolsonaro, and the answer is it's because the system failed them, they know the system failed them, and then they rallied behind whoever it was who seem to be the most virile adversary of that political order. Obviously, the same was true with Brexit in the United Kingdom with the rise of far-right parties in Western Europe, places we never expected to see them. And it's not a coincidence that after eight years of Obama and Biden, we got Donald Trump. And, obviously, if you go back and do exactly the same thing that the O'Biden administration did for eight years, which is what Biden is preparing to do, any rational person has to expect the same outcome."
"The same outcome being the middle class continues to be destroyed, companies that have no allegiance to the United States that will take as many jobs as possible and shift them to places where they can pay slave labor will continue to do so, communities will continue to be ravaged with unemployment, crisis with drug addiction, with suicide, with depression, all the things that are dominating small American towns, rural towns, and increasingly even larger ones. And that anger and dissatisfaction is going to only continue to grow so that when you have a smarter more stable version of Donald Trump tapping into that populace anger, promising them to close the United States, to give them better lives, it's going to be even more appealing this time around."
Big Tech Censorship and Russia, Russia, Russia!
Greenwald: "I mean, one of the big causes of the Left during the 2020 election, it was one that I supported, was working to help Ed Markey, the long-time congressman, now senator from Massachusetts defeat a primary challenge nominally from his Right on the part of Congressman Joe Kennedy III. He became a hero of the Left. And right after he won, his primary and general election, there was a hearing convened where they called Silicon Valley leaders, including Mark Zuckerberg to testify before a committee on which Senator Markey sits and he told Mark Zuckerberg, Unlike my Republican colleagues who are complaining about censorship, we don't believe that the problem is that you're censoring too much. We believe the problem is you're not censoring enough. And then proceeded to show him a bunch of content on Facebook that Markey thinks is dangerous or extremist speech that he demanded be censored. Obama delivered a speech a couple months before the election in which he says he believes the internet is the greatest threat to American democracy because of the role it's playing in disseminating misinformation."
"So the Democratic Party, including its Liberal wing and its Left-wing, are very much on board with idea that we cannot have free speech in this age of, whatever they want to call it, White supremacy, domestic terrorism, right-wing extremism, because it simply too dangerous. And not only should the free speech be restricted by laws and acted by Congress, which presumably would have to mean amending the First Amendment, but until then they're on their knees pleading with billionaires, and oligarchs, and monopolists, and Silicon Valley to censor in the way that they believe is politically advantageous. And this was true, as you said, even before the election. I honestly think, Chris, that one of the most momentous moments of the last five or six years was when the New York Post started reporting on documents that, to this day, everyone acknowledges are completely authentic. And the intelligence community invented a lie that it was Russian disinformation, which immediately pressured or gave the pretext to Twitter and Facebook to ban report it."
Banning Content in the Name of Protecting 'Biden Brand'
"If you wanted to go on Twitter and post a link to the New York Post reporting on the Hunter Biden laptop, which contain a lot of information about what Joe Biden was doing in Ukraine, what he was doing in China when he was the presidential frontrunner, you couldn't even post the link. They had banned it. Facebook algorithmically announced through a long-time Democratic Party operative networks at Facebook that they were going to suppress the spread of that story. That was stunning intervention on the part of Silicon Valley in the ability to do journalism, in the election on behalf of a candidate that Silicon Valley overwhelmingly was supporting. And since the Democrats won, every time the Democrats call on Apple, or Google, or Facebook, or Twitter to censor, those companies comply because they're in debt together. There is an alliance between Silicon Valley billionaires, and oligarchs, and monopolist on the one hand and the Democratic party on the other. And it's now all about to merge with the power of the state."
"I found it really interesting that numerous world leaders, including ones who have famously acrimonious relationship with President Trump stood up and very vehemently denounced Twitter's decision and Facebook's decision to ban President Trump from the platform, that includes Chancellor Angela Merkel, who's a center-right politician with whom Trump has argued and bickered almost his entire presidency. It includes President Lopez Obrador in Mexico, who's a leftist president, who very eloquently and vehemently warned that Silicon Valley is becoming essentially a world media leader. Something greater than nation states, because--and ministers high up in the Macron government in France, obviously who also don't love Donald Trump, denounced it in similar terms. Why? Because they're extremely concerned that these private tech monopolists who they cannot battle--the EU has been trying to break up Google and break up Facebook for years, and they simply can't because they're too powerful, are also coming for their democracies."
The Biden-MSM Nexus will try to Destroy Independent Media
Greenwald: "I think absolutely they are very committed to the destruction of any outlets that permit independent voices of dissent. Already you could just pick up a New York Times this morning, and there was an article about how people who were using Parler but now can no longer because it was removed from the internet by Amazon, Google, and Apple are migrating to platforms like Telegram and Signal. And there was a New York Times article, Laying the Groundwork, for saying, Look, Telegram and Signal are now the venues for this right-wing extremism that has become a dangerous. It's only a matter of time as Substack grows before these groups of journalists that the--that NBC and the New York Times and the CNN employ whose only function is to demand censorship, start turning their guns on platforms like Substack or Patreon and saying, Look at the extremism that they're hosting. Why aren't they removing this content that's extremist and radicalizing people, and is so dangerous.
"They want to maintain a monopoly over the dissemination of information, and they're not--and the most shocking part of it is the people who are leading this crusade, this censorship crusade are journalists, are the people who work at the large corporate media outlets. They are the biggest and the most vocal cheerleaders for corporate censorship of anybody because they don't want any other voices competing with their own."
"The most disturbing event yet beyond as we discussed earlier, Facebook and Twitter's unity in blocking the New York Post reporting [on Hunter Biden], is the fact that Amazon, Apple, and Google, three of the four companies that a Democratic House Subcommittee, just three months ago, declared to be dangerous, monopolist, and illegal anti-trust, anti-competitors in a really comprehensive report that they issued, united to remove from the internet a competitor to Twitter, and Facebook, and Instagram that had become the most popular app downloaded on the Apple Store, which is Parler, on the grounds that Parler played a role in inciting or agitating for the capital breach and the riot that occurred on January 6th, even though it was their own properties like Google's YouTube and Facebook that played a much, much bigger role. They simply destroyed a competing platform at the urging of people like Congressman Ro Khanna, Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez. They issued demands for it on Twitter, and within 72-hours, Parler was gone from the internet."
Never checked out Parler, but this was my first thought when i read the news as Parler apparently got a big number of new sign ups recently lot of people curious about it especially after a lot of censorship this year lot of buzz around it.
It's really just the perfect excuse to try to take out any new upcoming social media competition.
It's like most things all about the money.
Septic Tanks are going to Septic Tank