COVID-19 Health System Overload Forecaster
overthefalls wrote:Burleigh, a lot of vaccines require boosters.
BD, less than 10% of the adult population is not a majority.
BTW, I share your opposition to vaccine mandates and passports, but I’m all for getting vaccinated. As my old man (a retired 86 year-old doctor) said: you should get the covid vaccine, but you shouldn’t have to get it.
True although not entirely sure those numbers are correct, who could be.
But what i will say, if that is true, is that i'd assume the other 90% are the ones who went out and panic bought toilet paper at the start of a pandemic of a virus which affected the respiratory system.
So to put all my faith in that 90% and their critical thinking is gonna take some convincing.
But yeah, i'm with you on the vaccine thing. Do or don't, your choice.
FWIW, i'm not anti vax. Just anti this trial vax being forced onto populations.
Supermarket shelves don't lie!!
"It is the disease of the dumb."
the dumb and counter productive...
seriously, some of these guys are not that dumb... but their behaviour...
deranged has other connotations... but it's the only suitable word...
some have never made it back!
its a crisis on top of a crisis, and some of you really need to take a breath and chill out a bit, for your own good
"once again, you have me mixed up with some conspiracy nutter living rent free in your brain"
If this is true, it doesn't mean you're not a conspiracy nutter sypkan.
Your latest brain fart about "really serious pandemics" in the future is just ridiculous.
You're basically arguing that we don't need to worry about covid (5.21 million deaths bare min) because something worse might happen in the future.
Do you take the same attitude with school shootings in the USA?
no, Im saying we need to take stock of what just happened
and how some places did fuck all and seemingly fared better or not much worse than us
australia took one of the most extreme paths on the planet, now is time for reflection on that path, but zealots like you are so beholden to a compromised and twisted narrative you cannot even hold a conversation
you are the nutter!
not thinking straight, not healthy...
i put you on the same level as the 5G fruitcakes
Im in neither camp, despite your most desperate of desperate efforts to put me there
just try open your mind a little, seriously, you're not a well functioning unit
Can someone explain to me how me being vaccinated protects those around me ? Omicron has shown just how ridiculous that statement from government and media is . As far as case numbers go , it’s not a realistic reflection of hospitalised patients , but the media love the hype .
Again
@bluediamond
"i'm part of a growing majority of people asking legitimate questions,"
I'm kinda intrigued as to how you figure this.
Supafreak wrote:Can someone explain to me how me being vaccinated protects those around me ? Omicron has shown just how ridiculous that statement from government and media is . As far as case numbers go , it’s not a realistic reflection of hospitalised patients , but the media love the hype .
An unvaccinated person is 20 x more likely to pass on covid to others. Your viral loading is reduced due to vaccines thus you don’t pass it on as much.
Supafreak wrote:Can someone explain to me how me being vaccinated protects those around me ? Omicron has shown just how ridiculous that statement from government and media is . As far as case numbers go , it’s not a realistic reflection of hospitalised patients , but the media love the hype .
An unvaccinated person is 20 x more likely to pass on covid to others. Your viral loading is reduced due to vaccines thus you don’t pass it on as much.
"Can someone explain to me how me being vaccinated protects those around me ?"
This really isn't complicated super freak.
Vaccinated people are much less likely to A. Catch covid and B. Spread covid.
Sure it isn't perfect but we do know the vaccine helps control the spread of the virus.
One thing the anti-vaxxers are really good at is letting the perfect be the enemy of the good.
You're also more likely to catch covid and as you move around the community, before symptoms show, you can be passing covid onto others around you.
Supafreak wrote:Can someone explain to me how me being vaccinated protects those around me ? Omicron has shown just how ridiculous that statement from government and media is . As far as case numbers go , it’s not a realistic reflection of hospitalised patients , but the media love the hype .
I'll have a go supafreak, ...just to mix it up with my 'conspiracy theories'...
1. if sick, you are less transmissable than an unvax person, this has been proven somewhat, but that margin does seem to be waning
2. you are less likely to get sick, good for you, good for everybody
3. if you do get sick, you likely will be less sick, so less coughing and sneezing shit everywhere infecting others
4. you're less likely to be hospitalised, which has all sorts of benefits for all
Roadkill wrote:Supafreak wrote:Can someone explain to me how me being vaccinated protects those around me ? Omicron has shown just how ridiculous that statement from government and media is . As far as case numbers go , it’s not a realistic reflection of hospitalised patients , but the media love the hype .
An unvaccinated person is 20 x more likely to pass on covid to others. Your viral loading is reduced due to vaccines thus you don’t pass it on as much.
That’s entirely incorrect.
Try again. Use facts this time.
https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2021/s0730-mmwr-covid-19.html
Hey BD, Thanks for the respectful reply. I reckon those who panicked and stocked up on toilet paper are a minority. Also, I have confidence in my critical thinking skills; they’re not perfect, but they usually serve me well enough. As for the vaccine being a trial or an experiment, that’s a gross exaggeration. However, I have to admit my own bias; I grew up in a family of medical professionals, so I can’t help but listen to them, especially my father who is now retired and has no links with, or fear of, medical authorities. He just says what he thinks, based on over fifty years of medical practice. By extension, I understand why some people don’t trust the medical establishment, especially if they’ve had negative experiences.
Blowin wrote:Roadkill wrote:Supafreak wrote:Can someone explain to me how me being vaccinated protects those around me ? Omicron has shown just how ridiculous that statement from government and media is . As far as case numbers go , it’s not a realistic reflection of hospitalised patients , but the media love the hype .
An unvaccinated person is 20 x more likely to pass on covid to others. Your viral loading is reduced due to vaccines thus you don’t pass it on as much.
That’s entirely incorrect.
Try again. Use facts this time.
https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2021/s0730-mmwr-covid-19.html
So now you're happy to quote CDC data…the same CDC that you have been bagging as full of lies since…forever?
AndyM wrote:Again
@bluediamond
"i'm part of a growing majority of people asking legitimate questions,"I'm kinda intrigued as to how you figure this.
You're right Andy.M. It's purely an assumption based on the growing numbers of protesters every weekend, the growing number of protests, the more coverage these protests are getting in the media, even if they don't want to cover them, (hard to hide 100,000 plus people), but also people i talk to, seeing more and more people voicing their concerns on social media who wouldn't have before. That statement was misleading. To clarify, it's my assumption.
Roadkill wrote:Blowin wrote:Roadkill wrote:Supafreak wrote:Can someone explain to me how me being vaccinated protects those around me ? Omicron has shown just how ridiculous that statement from government and media is . As far as case numbers go , it’s not a realistic reflection of hospitalised patients , but the media love the hype .
An unvaccinated person is 20 x more likely to pass on covid to others. Your viral loading is reduced due to vaccines thus you don’t pass it on as much.
That’s entirely incorrect.
Try again. Use facts this time.
https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2021/s0730-mmwr-covid-19.html
So now you're happy to quote CDC data…the same CDC that you have been bagging as full of lies since…forever?
That article is 5 months old…plenty of more updated data since then.
@bluediamond
"i'm part of a growing majority of people asking legitimate questions,"
What planet do you live on?
You’d better read this :
https://www.pandata.org/understanding-relative-risk-reduction-and-absolu...
Before you read this:
overthefalls wrote:Hey BD, Thanks for the respectful reply. I reckon those who panicked and stocked up on toilet paper are a minority. Also, I have confidence in my critical thinking skills; they’re not perfect, but they usually serve me well enough. As for the vaccine being a trial or an experiment, that’s a gross exaggeration. However, I have to admit my own bias; I grew up in a family of medical professionals, so I can’t help but listen to them, especially my father who is now retired and has no links with, or fear of, medical authorities. He just says what he thinks, based on over fifty years of medical practice. By extension, I understand why some people don’t trust the medical establishment, especially if they’ve had negative experiences.
Like wise Overthefalls, and not implying you weren't a critical thinker.
I did notice you mentioned about asking your dad a question about a link i posted once which was good to see his feedback.
I do have alot of trust in doctors....medical professionals.
I don't trust governments suppressing information that doctors could be sharing that they're not allowed to due to towing the line. As soon as information isn't free and available it's hard to not be suspicious, especially in the current climate. I think the doctors and all health professionals are doing an amazing job in this current situation.
Roadkill wrote:Roadkill wrote:Blowin wrote:Roadkill wrote:Supafreak wrote:Can someone explain to me how me being vaccinated protects those around me ? Omicron has shown just how ridiculous that statement from government and media is . As far as case numbers go , it’s not a realistic reflection of hospitalised patients , but the media love the hype .
An unvaccinated person is 20 x more likely to pass on covid to others. Your viral loading is reduced due to vaccines thus you don’t pass it on as much.
That’s entirely incorrect.
Try again. Use facts this time.
https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2021/s0730-mmwr-covid-19.html
So now you're happy to quote CDC data…the same CDC that you have been bagging as full of lies since…forever?
That article is 5 months old…plenty of more updated data since then.
Show me the differing data.
Blowin wrote:You’d better read this :
https://www.pandata.org/understanding-relative-risk-reduction-and-absolu...
Before you read this:
No thanks. Nope..not interested.
Blowin wrote:Roadkill wrote:Roadkill wrote:Blowin wrote:Roadkill wrote:Supafreak wrote:Can someone explain to me how me being vaccinated protects those around me ? Omicron has shown just how ridiculous that statement from government and media is . As far as case numbers go , it’s not a realistic reflection of hospitalised patients , but the media love the hype .
An unvaccinated person is 20 x more likely to pass on covid to others. Your viral loading is reduced due to vaccines thus you don’t pass it on as much.
That’s entirely incorrect.
Try again. Use facts this time.
https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2021/s0730-mmwr-covid-19.html
So now you're happy to quote CDC data…the same CDC that you have been bagging as full of lies since…forever?
That article is 5 months old…plenty of more updated data since then.
Show me the differing data.
Nope, not interested. Enjoy your day.
Roadkill wrote:Blowin wrote:Roadkill wrote:Supafreak wrote:Can someone explain to me how me being vaccinated protects those around me ? Omicron has shown just how ridiculous that statement from government and media is . As far as case numbers go , it’s not a realistic reflection of hospitalised patients , but the media love the hype .
An unvaccinated person is 20 x more likely to pass on covid to others. Your viral loading is reduced due to vaccines thus you don’t pass it on as much.
That’s entirely incorrect.
Try again. Use facts this time.
https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2021/s0730-mmwr-covid-19.html
So now you're happy to quote CDC data…the same CDC that you have been bagging as full of lies since…forever?
Roadkill, can you provide the link to back your statement that unvaccinated are 20 x more likely to spread covid,. I genuinely want to read where you got that information from.
I'd say it's an interesting read thanks Blowin..
"It is also important to take into account the trial design itself. In this case Pfizer designed the trial, and they are highly experienced in setting up trials for success. The trial compared the case numbers in the vaccinated vs control (placebo) groups where a case of COVID-19 was defined as an individual who experienced symptoms and had a positive test for SARS-CoV-2 infection. This is arguably a weak endpoint, as incidence of severe disease and death, the very outcomes one would hope the vaccine prevents, were not considered."
"no, Im saying we need to take stock of what just happened"
OK sypkan. Let's do that.
Australia has been one of the least impacted countries. This is both in terms of health and economic impacts. This is due to a variety of reasons. I will list a handful of major ones.
1. Luckily we are an island
2. The premiers treated covid as a health problem primarily and stared down the idiot PM who wanted to go to the footy and protect the economy first.
3. We have an advanced health system.
4. We have a very high vaccination rate due to sensible policies and a culture of looking after ya mates.
When you compare Australia with other western nations, we have done very well.
Australia did have longer lockdowns than most other nations because of two main reasons.
1. The vaccine rollout was botched. Scumo fucked it up big time and it started 6 months later than Europe and North America.
2. The general public saw what happened in Europe, India, USA etc and accepted lockdowns as the least worst option.
Australia, with 90% + vaccination rates, low case numbers, a good hospital system, and summer on the way is in a vastly superior position compared to all other western nations. (with the exception of NZ which is a tie).
sypkan, you've sooked about our governments' response for 2 years now. Anyone with any brains (not you supafreak, burleigh, blowin et al) who has followed your rants knows Australia would be in terrible state if you got your way.
You've cried so hard, I don't understand why you don't emigrate to a country that has implemented covid policies more to your liking. Try England or the USA.
You'd have something to really cry about if you were in those countries this coming winter.
Interesting to read Blowin's link.
Have a look in the 'about us' section:
"A group of multi-disciplinary professionals, who perceived the global reaction to Covid, and lockdown in particular, as overwrought and damaging to the point of causing a great tear in the fabric of society, established PANDA (Pandemics Data & Analytics) in April 2020. As a politically and economically independent organisation, PANDA seeks to develop science-based explanations and test them against international data. Policy recommendations for governments and other institutions can be developed from these. PANDA stands for open science and rational debate, for replacing flawed science with good science and for retrieving liberty and prosperity from the clutches of a dystopian “new normal”."
So there's their agenda, laid out pretty plainly.
Here's a rational, clearly laid out explanation of how the '20x less likely' figure is arrived at.
https://theconversation.com/your-unvaccinated-friend-is-roughly-20-times...
It's fairly logical and easy to follow. The information from the CDC at the address below in no way contradicts this at all.
https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2021/s0730-mmwr-covid-19.html
I wonder if you had lost your business and home if you would feel the same way VL plenty of people have lost everything . From the beginning the best health experts in the world according to you and scomo, said a vaccine was the only way to end this pandemic so throw a ton of money at vaccine research and meantime if you get sick go home and isolate. Best medical advice in the world? Really ? Don’t even try early treatment ? Wait to see how sick you get get ? Best medical advice ? And you call everyone else idiots.
Supafreak wrote:Roadkill wrote:Blowin wrote:Roadkill wrote:Supafreak wrote:Can someone explain to me how me being vaccinated protects those around me ? Omicron has shown just how ridiculous that statement from government and media is . As far as case numbers go , it’s not a realistic reflection of hospitalised patients , but the media love the hype .
An unvaccinated person is 20 x more likely to pass on covid to others. Your viral loading is reduced due to vaccines thus you don’t pass it on as much.
That’s entirely incorrect.
Try again. Use facts this time.
https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2021/s0730-mmwr-covid-19.html
So now you're happy to quote CDC data…the same CDC that you have been bagging as full of lies since…forever?
Roadkill, can you provide the link to back your statement that unvaccinated are 20 x more likely to spread covid,. I genuinely want to read where you got that information from.
I can’t recall the exact place I got that figure..but it is easy to remember.
However, try these.
https://www.sbs.com.au/news/your-unvaccinated-friend-is-roughly-20-times...
https://theconversation.com/no-vaccinated-people-are-not-just-as-infecti...
JQ wrote:Interesting to read Blowin's link.
Have a look in the 'about us' section:
"A group of multi-disciplinary professionals, who perceived the global reaction to Covid, and lockdown in particular, as overwrought and damaging to the point of causing a great tear in the fabric of society, established PANDA (Pandemics Data & Analytics) in April 2020. As a politically and economically independent organisation, PANDA seeks to develop science-based explanations and test them against international data. Policy recommendations for governments and other institutions can be developed from these. PANDA stands for open science and rational debate, for replacing flawed science with good science and for retrieving liberty and prosperity from the clutches of a dystopian “new normal”."
So there's their agenda, laid out pretty plainly.
And that is why anything blowin posts is garbage..with a bias.
JQ wrote:Here's a rational, clearly laid out explanation of how the '20x less likely' figure is arrived at.
https://theconversation.com/your-unvaccinated-friend-is-roughly-20-times...
It's fairly logical and easy to follow. The information from the CDC at the address below in no way contradicts this at all.
https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2021/s0730-mmwr-covid-19.html
Thanks JQ , I was actually hoping for something from a well respected peer reviewed science journal but guess I will have to settle for the conversation.
JQ wrote:Here's a rational, clearly laid out explanation of how the '20x less likely' figure is arrived at.
https://theconversation.com/your-unvaccinated-friend-is-roughly-20-times...
It's fairly logical and easy to follow. The information from the CDC at the address below in no way contradicts this at all.
https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2021/s0730-mmwr-covid-19.html
Looks like you must’ve missed the 2nd paragraph there mate. Here it is :
“Today, some of those data were published in CDC’s Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report (MMWR), demonstrating that Delta infection resulted in similarly high SARS-CoV-2 viral loads in vaccinated and unvaccinated people. “
As for the complete refusal to counter the other link and your preference for disparaging the motivations of the authors….yeah, I’m not sure if that argument actually works anywhere beyond the playground.
JQ wrote:Here's a rational, clearly laid out explanation of how the '20x less likely' figure is arrived at.
https://theconversation.com/your-unvaccinated-friend-is-roughly-20-times...
It's fairly logical and easy to follow. The information from the CDC at the address below in no way contradicts this at all.
https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2021/s0730-mmwr-covid-19.html
I could only find this in 2nd link JQ
"Today, some of those data were published in CDC’s Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report (MMWR), demonstrating that Delta infection resulted in similarly high SARS-CoV-2 viral loads in vaccinated and unvaccinated people. High viral loads suggest an increased risk of transmission and raised concern that, unlike with other variants, vaccinated people infected with Delta can transmit the virus. This finding is concerning and was a pivotal discovery leading to CDC’s updated mask recommendation. The masking recommendation was updated to ensure the vaccinated public would not unknowingly transmit virus to others, including their unvaccinated or immunocompromised loved ones."
Not sure if this link is going to work properly as it's interactive but anyway...
https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/cumulative-excess-deaths-per-million-...
This is a graphic that shows cumulative excess deaths per million, by default the time period is set from Jan 5, 2020 to Nov 14, 2021.
What this shows is how many more deaths than expected there were per million people over the aforementioned period. There is no differentiation between those who died with covid, from covid or from anything else. This merely shows how many more deaths there were than statistical trends predicted there should have been, this is a useful measure of the impact of the pandemic on an overall society scale.
COVID tests have no bearing what so ever on this data.
If you hover your mouse over the USA, you'll see the cumulative excess deaths per million over that roughly 2 year period. When I do that, the figure I see is 2490.82. From what I can find from a quick google, the US population is about 329 million, multiplying these figures together we come to 819,479. That is how many more people have died over that period than statistically should have. 819,479 people.
But to certain posters, 'that's just life'. A small price (for others) to pay to further a shitty grievance narrative.
whoops. Snap.
Supafreak wrote:Thanks JQ , I was actually hoping for something from a well respected peer reviewed science journal but guess I will have to settle for the conversation.
No worries Supa, not sure what you mean you say 'settle', you've frequently gone much lower than that. If you actually read the article, it is not a scientific study, it is explaining the statistics more than anything.
Vic Local wrote:Australia has been one of the least impacted countries. This is both in terms of health and economic .
Yep Scomo did a pretty decent job of handling Covid from both a health perspective and an economical perspective, the only major fuck up was in Victoria from a guy who isn't a team player and wanted to do things differently to other states and fucked up quarantine management and even after an enquiry they still didn't find out who made the decision.
And no the vax rollout wasn't botched up, we had Astrazeneca quite early a vax not based on mrna tech so in theory the vax that should have had least vax hesitancy and a vax that can be produced here, unfortunately it had issues as we know with blood clotting.
New Zealand was in exactly the same position as us by that time much of the world really needed vaccines and we didn't so we went to the back of the line, which makes sense.
We now are looking at one of the highest vaccination rates in the world.
bluediamond wrote:You're right Andy.M. It's purely an assumption based on the growing numbers of protesters every weekend, the growing number of protests, the more coverage these protests are getting in the media, even if they don't want to cover them, (hard to hide 100,000 plus people), but also people i talk to, seeing more and more people voicing their concerns on social media who wouldn't have before. That statement was misleading. To clarify, it's my assumption.
In order to contribute to the occasional bout of polite discourse contained within this thread, can I offer an alternative viewpoint?
Let's imagine that for whatever reason, the government had adopted an entirely different approach, perhaps one more inline with the wishes of the anti-vaxxers. Or whatever. Choose something different to what's on the menu right now.
I'd wager there'd be at least an equal number of people protesting the government's strategy, and that over time, if the government held firm in its views, the number of protesters would slowly increase.
Point being: I'm unsurprised that there is some form of opposition to what's going on. I think this was inevitable no matter what happened.
bluediamond wrote:AndyM wrote:Again
@bluediamond
"i'm part of a growing majority of people asking legitimate questions,"I'm kinda intrigued as to how you figure this.
You're right Andy.M. It's purely an assumption based on the growing numbers of protesters every weekend, the growing number of protests, the more coverage these protests are getting in the media, even if they don't want to cover them, (hard to hide 100,000 plus people), but also people i talk to, seeing more and more people voicing their concerns on social media who wouldn't have before. That statement was misleading. To clarify, it's my assumption.
Cheers mate.
Out of interest, 100,000 people is 0.4% of the population.
Roadkill wrote:JQ wrote:Interesting to read Blowin's link.
Have a look in the 'about us' section:
"A group of multi-disciplinary professionals, who perceived the global reaction to Covid, and lockdown in particular, as overwrought and damaging to the point of causing a great tear in the fabric of society, established PANDA (Pandemics Data & Analytics) in April 2020. As a politically and economically independent organisation, PANDA seeks to develop science-based explanations and test them against international data. Policy recommendations for governments and other institutions can be developed from these. PANDA stands for open science and rational debate, for replacing flawed science with good science and for retrieving liberty and prosperity from the clutches of a dystopian “new normal”."
So there's their agenda, laid out pretty plainly.
And that is why anything blowin posts is garbage..with a bias.
Come on bloke. You’ve made fifty posts today and not one of them has contributed a single worthy point of discussion and not even a single truth related to covid. You’d just said you were done for the day because you couldn’t back up your claim and so you decided that discretion was the better part of valour. Yet here you are back, so it seems even that was not factual.
thermalben wrote:bluediamond wrote:You're right Andy.M. It's purely an assumption based on the growing numbers of protesters every weekend, the growing number of protests, the more coverage these protests are getting in the media, even if they don't want to cover them, (hard to hide 100,000 plus people), but also people i talk to, seeing more and more people voicing their concerns on social media who wouldn't have before. That statement was misleading. To clarify, it's my assumption.
In order to contribute to the occasional bout of polite discourse contained within this thread, can I offer an alternative viewpoint?
Let's imagine that for whatever reason, the government had adopted an entirely different approach, perhaps one more inline with the wishes of the anti-vaxxers. Or whatever. Choose something different to what's on the menu right now.
I'd wager there'd be at least an equal number of people protesting the government's strategy, and that over time, if the government held firm in its views, the number of protesters would slowly increase.
Point being: I'm unsurprised that there is some form of opposition to what's going on. I think this was inevitable no matter what happened.
Differing opinions and protest are the hallmarks of democracy.
Segregating society, encouraging uncivil division and the demonisation of a subset of that society is not the hallmark of a functioning democracy.
Nor is the punitive apartheid situation whereby a subset of our community is arbitrarily denied employment and access to public life, community and infrastructure.
None of the above is found in a functioning society. That is the main issue, not the fact that people disagree with government policies.
The transition towards inequitable authoritarianism was not inevitable.
JQ , there’s a good reason that the US had such a high death rate . People would go to hospital feeling unwell, tested and confirmed that they had covid . Then they were sent home and told to take tylenol . After 2 weeks people were getting admitted to hospital in advanced stages of the disease. Do you think the medical advice was appropriate ? Other doctors got together and tried everything possible. Today those doctors are the bad guys.
AndyM wrote:bluediamond wrote:AndyM wrote:Again
@bluediamond
"i'm part of a growing majority of people asking legitimate questions,"I'm kinda intrigued as to how you figure this.
You're right Andy.M. It's purely an assumption based on the growing numbers of protesters every weekend, the growing number of protests, the more coverage these protests are getting in the media, even if they don't want to cover them, (hard to hide 100,000 plus people), but also people i talk to, seeing more and more people voicing their concerns on social media who wouldn't have before. That statement was misleading. To clarify, it's my assumption.
Cheers mate.
Out of interest, 100,000 people is 0.4% of the population.
How dare u expose my shitty maths!! But yeah still feel like there's a big shift.
Blowin wrote:Looks like you must’ve missed the 2nd paragraph there mate. Here it is :
“Today, some of those data were published in CDC’s Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report (MMWR), demonstrating that Delta infection resulted in similarly high SARS-CoV-2 viral loads in vaccinated and unvaccinated people. “
As for the complete refusal to counter the other link and your preference for disparaging the motivations of the authors….yeah, I’m not sure if that argument actually works anywhere beyond the playground.
Ah, the playground, setting a higher bar than discourse with your good self then mate. The link you posted is clearly from people who have an agenda, and that's fine, anyone who says they don't in something like this is almost certainly lying. It is however important context to the information you provide.
Now, yes, you are correct, vaccinated people can present with similarly high viral loads, but that's not the whole story.
Vaccinated people clear their viral loads much faster:
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.07.28.21261295v1
"Conclusion The mRNA vaccines are highly effective at preventing symptomatic and severe COVID-19 associated with B.1.617.2 infection. Vaccination is associated with faster decline in viral RNA load and a robust serological response. Vaccination remains a key strategy for control of COVID-19 pandemic."
The above, combined with the fact that a vaccinated individual IF infected is less likely to suffer symptomatic (coughing, sneezing - expelling virus containing droplets) COVID-19 means that a vaccinated person is far less likely to transmit.
Blowin wrote:Roadkill wrote:JQ wrote:Interesting to read Blowin's link.
Have a look in the 'about us' section:
"A group of multi-disciplinary professionals, who perceived the global reaction to Covid, and lockdown in particular, as overwrought and damaging to the point of causing a great tear in the fabric of society, established PANDA (Pandemics Data & Analytics) in April 2020. As a politically and economically independent organisation, PANDA seeks to develop science-based explanations and test them against international data. Policy recommendations for governments and other institutions can be developed from these. PANDA stands for open science and rational debate, for replacing flawed science with good science and for retrieving liberty and prosperity from the clutches of a dystopian “new normal”."
So there's their agenda, laid out pretty plainly.
And that is why anything blowin posts is garbage..with a bias.
Come on bloke. You’ve made fifty posts today and not one of them has contributed a single worthy point of discussion and not even a single truth related to covid. You’d just said you were done for the day because you couldn’t back up your claim and so you decided that discretion was the better part of valour. Yet here you are back, so it seems even that was not factual.
Yawn. Nope, still not interested.
JQ wrote:Not sure if this link is going to work properly as it's interactive but anyway...
https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/cumulative-excess-deaths-per-million-...
This is a graphic that shows cumulative excess deaths per million, by default the time period is set from Jan 5, 2020 to Nov 14, 2021.
What this shows is how many more deaths than expected there were per million people over the aforementioned period. There is no differentiation between those who died with covid, from covid or from anything else. This merely shows how many more deaths there were than statistical trends predicted there should have been, this is a useful measure of the impact of the pandemic on an overall society scale.
COVID tests have no bearing what so ever on this data.
If you hover your mouse over the USA, you'll see the cumulative excess deaths per million over that roughly 2 year period. When I do that, the figure I see is 2490.82. From what I can find from a quick google, the US population is about 329 million, multiplying these figures together we come to 819,479. That is how many more people have died over that period than statistically should have. 819,479 people.
But to certain posters, 'that's just life'. A small price (for others) to pay to further a shitty grievance narrative.
How many of the excess deaths are the result of the postponed surgeries, suicides, overdoses, domestic assaults, additional drinking and drink driving through unstructured living AKA unemployment and work from home, undetected and untreated diseases , home renovation injuries, liver destruction, stress induced disease , exacerbated lifestyle diseases due to confinement etc etc etc from the covid mitigation measures ?
As your post states, there is no way to ascribe fatalities to varying causes and no way to establish true contributing factors towards death. Your intention to link it to deaths from covid has no evidentiary basis.
JQ wrote:Blowin wrote:Looks like you must’ve missed the 2nd paragraph there mate. Here it is :
“Today, some of those data were published in CDC’s Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report (MMWR), demonstrating that Delta infection resulted in similarly high SARS-CoV-2 viral loads in vaccinated and unvaccinated people. “
As for the complete refusal to counter the other link and your preference for disparaging the motivations of the authors….yeah, I’m not sure if that argument actually works anywhere beyond the playground.
Ah, the playground, setting a higher bar than discourse with your good self then mate. The link you posted is clearly from people who have an agenda, and that's fine, anyone who says they don't in something like this is almost certainly lying. It is however important context to the information you provide.
Now, yes, you are correct, vaccinated people can present with similarly high viral loads, but that's not the whole story.
Vaccinated people clear their viral loads much faster:
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.07.28.21261295v1
"Conclusion The mRNA vaccines are highly effective at preventing symptomatic and severe COVID-19 associated with B.1.617.2 infection. Vaccination is associated with faster decline in viral RNA load and a robust serological response. Vaccination remains a key strategy for control of COVID-19 pandemic."
The above, combined with the fact that a vaccinated individual IF infected is less likely to suffer symptomatic (coughing, sneezing - expelling virus containing droplets) COVID-19 means that a vaccinated person is far less likely to transmit.
JQ this is a pre-print , it hasn’t been peer reviewed, if I were to put up non peer reviewed paper then certain individuals would be loosing their shit .
Vic Local wrote:"no, Im saying we need to take stock of what just happened"
OK sypkan. Let's do that.
Australia has been one of the least impacted countries. This is both in terms of health and economic impacts. This is due to a variety of reasons. I will list a handful of major ones.
1. Luckily we are an island
2. The premiers treated covid as a health problem primarily and stared down the idiot PM who wanted to go to the footy and protect the economy first.
3. We have an advanced health system.
4. We have a very high vaccination rate due to sensible policies and a culture of looking after ya mates.
When you compare Australia with other western nations, we have done very well.
Australia did have longer lockdowns than most other nations because of two main reasons.
1. The vaccine rollout was botched. Scumo fucked it up big time and it started 6 months later than Europe and North America.
2. The general public saw what happened in Europe, India, USA etc and accepted lockdowns as the least worst option.
Australia, with 90% + vaccination rates, low case numbers, a good hospital system, and summer on the way is in a vastly superior position compared to all other western nations. (with the exception of NZ which is a tie).
sypkan, you've sooked about our governments' response for 2 years now. Anyone with any brains (not you supafreak, burleigh, blowin et al) who has followed your rants knows Australia would be in terrible state if you got your way.
You've cried so hard, I don't understand why you don't emigrate to a country that has implemented covid policies more to your liking. Try England or the USA.
You'd have something to really cry about if you were in those countries this coming winter.
well that's not taking stock vicvocal, that's you yelling at me with your usual bias political point scoring dribble...
again...
nothing new in your list, most those points i've made myself, if you ever cared to actually listen...
the context of the conversation was you and your band of merry zealots making the perplexing point that niger's largely non existent health system is the reason niger didn't get smashed by covid, ...despite their government doing essentially nothing...
interesting 'theory'...
australia, one of the most (over) reactive government in the world... versus... developing niger and others, who essentially did nothing....
that's the taking stock, not you yelling...
as to the rest of your post... more absolute bullshit...
again..
I haven't been 'sooking' about anything for two years, if you had the facilities of comprehension, a functioning memory, and a mind capable anything beyond self righteous drubbling anger... you would know that I advoated many restrictions and actions well before even your beloved state premier's actions were actioned, and have supported all sorts of measures throughout this mysterious two year account of me you have imagined...
mate, you don't do comprehension...
context... nuance... non- bias... critical thought... civility... thinking generally... anything it seens...
beyond angry man propaganda and belittling
mate, give up on the character assasination routine, it's tedious, especially coming from one so clearly lacking character
you are ...officially, the biggest, most deranged delusional, egocentric moron I have ever encountered...
so nice work there
but seriously, get help, all that hostility is not good for you, your cause, or society
I've created a spreadsheet forecast which I'll update as we go..
There's also a website with live running data.. https://sites.google.com/view/stayhomeaustralia