Interesting stuff

Mostly agree with you on that one Vic, the leaps of logic and connections made are just baffling and go so far beyond reason it's just yeah... Really something.

Funny stuff JQ. (kinda) It's a fine line between satire and truth.

“Negative Gearing and the Capital Gains Tax concessions are great and all, but they need to design some legislative structure that ensures that people who leverage property to buy more property to accumulate as much wealth as possible aren’t burnt by a sudden market crash.”

How about this one,

"The council also wants the abolition of stamp duty, the broadening of the GST and a "welcome migration" campaign aimed at luring foreigners to Australia. "

Vested interests much.

https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/new-home-boost-50k-to-home-build...

AS most commentators (on the article) recognised, this Property Council plan is a surefire way of pumping up house prices.

No I don't disagree with those various organisations Blowin - but I'm pretty sure none of them consider that belt and road thing is 'colonisation by stealth' or what ever phrasing you used in that comment you edited a little while ago. If they have labelled the belt and road thing as such, I'll happily eat my words - but I highly doubt they have.

I noticed you phrased that particular one as a question, interesting progress.

It is really transparent stuff Westof, you've gotta admit though, they are right about how tightly our economic well being is tied to the property market. That this has been allowed, nay, encouraged to occur is so deeply irresponsible and such a betrayal of the average Australian, it's sickening.

I found the REIA's campaign during the recent federal election particularly distasteful.

Undoubtedly many of their members have been made incredibly wealthy at the expense of home ownership to average Australians.

I don't know if it's a 'red hot , hands -across-the -world , good time ?'. I'd wager it significantly benefits China at the expense of those whole sign up to it.

Read the Betoota article, thanks - then couldn't tell if the SMH one was also satire...
Clown World.

Oh FFS Blowin, the economy is in shit condition. Have you not been paying attention? Do you reckon that may play a big part in the health of the housing market. It even says that in the article you linked. The article also mentions the number of new building starts dropped dramatically during the GFC. Did you ever wonder why?
Do you reckon the poor housing start numbers might also be due to banks not wanting to loan money to people without a fucking income.
Why does it not shock me that all you can see is the immigration angle? Oh that's right, it's because you don't like immigrants.
You pretty much reverse engineer every fucking debate on this site so immigrants, China or both are always the sole cause of your perceived problems. It's pathetic..

Vic, propping up a moribund housing market is govt policy on both sides of the fence. High house prices was an issue of demand and supply, but not of houses, of bank loans, which they have been signing people up for as soon as they can sign their name. Immigration just means they can rent them.

The housing market is propped up by immigration and loans policy, which has always been ''let her rip' (since the 90's at least)

Immigration policy is the ultimate housing ponzi scheme, which has the corollary benefit of keeping wages down and keeping unions out of business.

There should be a substantial fall in house prices, it would certainly be long overdue.

Hey VL, just for the record.
What are your views on PRC / CCP conduct in the past 5-10 years? Feel free to discuss debt trap diplomacy, systemic detention of an ethnic minority, long-term suppression of annexed territories, belligerent and almost unprecedented expansionism in the South China Sea, large scale state-sanctioned / enabled economic espionage and IP theft, unprecedented economic coercion of sovereign states, increasing use of paramilitary, contractor and militia forces to compel civilians to bend to CCP diktats.

I’m genuinely interested in your answer to this. I don’t think I’m racist (can’t be sure though - haven’t been given the nod by the Supreme Court of VL) and I’m ideologically left-leaning.

Also wondering if you can provide a position without reference to the US. If possible. Not essential.

I didn't ignore immigration as one of factors in house prices. That's why I used the word "part" in relation to the health of the housing market.
There's clearly multiple factors at play. From the tax system, lending standards, health of the economy, land banking, investors likely to sell properties to meet loans, younger people staying in / moving back to the family home due to poor job prospects, and yes population levels.
You're perfectly happy to ignore all the other factors and blame the same people you pretty much blame for everything you don't like.
Like I said, you reverse engineer pretty much every single one of your perceived problems in society so you can blame the immigrants and the Chinese. You even make up some truly BS statistic along the way to support a BS argument. I've caught you out on multiple occasions.
I will give you an example of your reverse engineering. Our Murray Darling System management has been a sick fucking joke for years. It's corrupt as all fuck, but you ignore the shithouse behaviour by our farmers and dodgy water ministers and blame one Chinese investor who is a very recent arrival in the water trading industry.
I simply don't understand how you can go through life thinking so little.

etarip. there's good and bad with the CCP. Their human rights record is appalling, but they have lifted millions out of abject poverty. While China's environmental record is woeful in some areas, they are world leaders in many other areas like electric cars and renewable energy.
Many of their joint venture infrastructure projects have lifted millions out of poverty in host countries but there's debt servicing issues. How China handles debt restructuring when/if it becomes necessary (in the very near future) will be a key factor in determining the CCP's behaviour and motives.
When it comes to international development, China is pretty much the only game in town. That's not a good thing, but inevitable as the West moves away from many forms of international cooperation. That's one of the true problems that stems from nationalist movements in many of the world's democracies.

So, a mixed report card? Pretty easy marking IMO.
What are some examples of their infrastructure projects lifting millions out of poverty, outside of China? From what I’ve seen in our region, some of it personally, the majority of the money goes to local elites, majority of the workforce is imported, and much of the work is shoddy. Is there a source to back that claim up?

When you say China is the only game in town in International development, what are you referring to? From my understanding (again, happy to be corrected) much of the aid (development) money from Aus / NZ /EU etc to developing nations is put into programs like education, health, governance, etc etc, rather than Signature programs such as roads, ports etc. Harder to put a big China Aid sticker on thousands of school books than it is on an unwanted / unneeded highway (for example). Again, I’d like to see a comparison of PRC Aid into the Pacific vs Aus / NZ over the past 20+ years to back up that assertion.

Most of China’s loans come with some pretty hefty strings attached, many of which involve handing over sovereign infrastructure. Not benevolent at all - and largely cynically targeted.

FWIW, I’m deeply concerned about what the next 5 years holds. I think the PRC is increasingly overt about its actions. I think their shift under Jingping is reckless, but calculated. They seek a decisive seismic shift in the global order in their favour. Soon. The recent trends of overtly coercive actions across their relationships with other Asian and regional nations is only going to intensify in the short term. Much of it may be focused on their internal audience to stoke, you guessed it, nationalist sentiment.

I could go on all day. I feel like you’re giving the PRC a bit of an easy ride here. Naïveté or being deliberately contrarian to counter Blowin?

Maybe he could change his screen name to Vic Labor Eta?

Whacko Jacko used to inject Hydroxychloroquine directly into his scalp & face.
This turned him white just to please his swellnet fans .

Orange Man also wants to be white so is hooked on Hydroxychloroquine.
President also takes it for hair growth...you'll see he's been taking it for a while.
https://www.jaad.org/article/S0190-9622(13)00193-X/pdf
Trump exploits Covid -19 cure to throw us off his long term addiction. Stoked!

It can & is affecting his mental state...recall Jacko (Baby out the window!)

As Trump gets whiter his eyes are getting redder & he's slowly losing his mind.
swellnet support mental illness...tbb wouldn't make this up & wishes him well.

The President has been hooked for a while & is signalling a disguised cry for help.
Like an addict, going thru denial phase...swears the shit he spews is on point.
Recall Jacko went downhill exactly the same way saying really weird stuff..
I'd add for those around him, to not provoke him & be ready for the fall (Soon)

Q: Why did Micheal Jackson start wearing Shades & Wigs & never took them off?
A: The answer is staring back at you in the mirror Mr President.
https://shop.vitiligocover.com/tag/michael-jackson-vitiligo/

The drug changes hair colour sure, but also eye colour!
It burns the fuck outta your eyes....yep! They hurt don't they?
Best lay off the goth drugs!

Fellow Mental Health sufferer dedicates a song to the Leader of the free World

The internet is only overrun by nutters if you let them in, i.e. don't click the link lol

But to the question, how does this fake world end? Asteroid maybe? It'd be like the 5th or 6th time...

etarip: Check out the railways China has built in Morocco or the energy infrastructure built in all the Central Asian countries. There's plenty of examples of hopelessly oversized Chinese-funded and built ports and airports in Sri Lanka and other nations. Much of this infrastructure started as Australian iron ore. China has also donated boat loads of PPE equipment all around the world. So, yes it's a mixed report card. It will be very interesting to watch how all these deals are renegotiated given the current state of the world economy. China is exposed to a massive amount of sovereign risk.
Blowin, I see you're making up my arguments again to shoot them down. Aren't you getting a little bored with that? It's primary school yard stuff.

In what context did they say containment was racist? I missed that, did they actually state that, or was it a rupey porky?

I do understand your frustration there, though

Yep

This is the big one

"WHO chief urges countries not to close borders to foreigners from China

The World Health Organization (WHO) pursued its dedication to open borders right until the end, with its head calling for countries to keep their borders open to China, where the coronavirus stemmed from.

"There is no reason for measures that unnecessarily interfere with international travel and trade. We call on all countries to implement decisions that are evidence-based and consistent. WHO stands ready to provide advice to any country that is considering which measures to take,” said WHO chief Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus in early February."

WHO chief: Closing borders increases 'fear' and 'stigma'

Ghebreyesus also later called for borders to stay open in a statement that appeared to put political correctness before public health.

“We reiterate our call to all countries not to impose restrictions that unnecessarily interfere with international travel and trade. Such restrictions can have the effect of increasing fear and stigma, with little public health benefit,” Ghebreyesus said to the UN’s executive board in Geneva.

The WHO has long argued that closing borders to a country during an outbreak increases stigma towards that country and even whole ethnic groups.

Despite EU leaders and WHO officials being opposed to border closures, a huge survey by Reuters found that citizens were overwhelmingly in support of such measures, with Asian countries showing the highest support for border closures."

Complete and major fuck up by the WHO

Basically if it wasn't for political correctness, the WHO would have advised the opposite to close borders ASAP and be safe rather than sorry and the world could have avoided all this.

This my people is why many aspects/views of the far left are so dangerous we are living this now, it should be a wake up call, but for most it won't be.

Basically the reality of the world doesn't care about your on paper politically correct BS or crazy ideas like a world without borders.

They didn't actually state "containment was racist", that's a paraphrase of "to avoid fear and stigma", which has actually been happening, including within Australia itself. I do agree though, that international travel should have been suspended earlier. Really easy lens to look through hindsight is, for all of us.

I love this country but it’s not what it was that’s for sure . What this place has ( and is disappearing rapidly ) is wilderness ( with diverse habitat flora and fauna) , unhumanised areas of land and space. Beautiful stretches of coastline ,beaches and reefs with plethora of marine life . For me this is what has made this country special . And we have always felt it deep in our bones, this connection to land and country because it goes a long way back . We respect that the indigenous people looked after this land for centuries without cars, buildings ,mining , pollution . They honoured the land and the animals , birds , fish, lizards, insects.. all the creatures as they knew intrinsically the inter connection of nature . They understood and respected sustainability and bio diversity as to destroy this is to destroy life .
We need to keep protecting our land and biodiversity - Not selling it off for profit to foreign investors who do not understand or respect the cultural and environmental significance or it’s true meaning .
I would hate to see all the wildlife decimated or just shoved into “tourist theme parks - get an ice cream ,selfie with a dolphin /koala / kangaroo”.
To me the less people in this country the better . Less humans footprint , less destruction and pollution . Humans just have a way of stuffing things up. Not all as some are still aware of treading softy and respecting nature and earth . It would be nice if there were more like that.
I guess I just don’t see a positive future with selling off more land and business to overseas investors such as from densely populated countries like China .
We need to take back our rights to water and land . Focus less on high tech and more on sustainability and simplifying our lives .

Great post Salty, and we need to be able to discuss these things without baseless cries of "racism" or "zenophobia".

And undesirable development can obviously come from within Australia as well.

Plus high tech is going to be a very important part of everyone's future.

I totally agree salty re, protecting what's left in terms of biodiversity. Just to flag something though, maybe jump on Google earth one day and scroll the length of the East coast from maybe cairns down, you're going to see four dominant colours, blue (ocean), white (urbanisation), light green (mostly cleared remnant vegetation for agriculture, particularly cattle) and dark green (remnant vegeation). It doesn't take any fancy statistics to see how fragmented, degraded and outright removed natural habitats have begun since European settlement, this isn't because of immigration today. You ever seen the state of the Bremer and Brisbane rivers? That's not because of immigrants, it's the historical (and continued) use of European land management practice in a continent that isn't Europe..

It's kind of funny that for a time I worked in Australia in a research group that were all foreigners and even the "I" word. The purpose of the research group was to protect endemic Australian animal species...

Saltyone, I don't think anyone disagrees with your sentiment re our biodiversity, but you only mention "foreign investors" as the reason for loss of our natural environment.
Mate, Australia has a woeful record when it comes to protecting our biodiversity. The land clearing (leal and illegal) by OUR FARMERS is a fucking disgrace. The water theft BY OUR FARMERS is a fucking disgrace. The state sponsored unsustainable logging BY OUR GOVERNMENT is a fucking disgrace, and OUR CO2 output that leads to biodiversity destroying climate change is a fucking disgrace. We've even got federal ministers who bulldoze endangered habitat on their properties and protect feral fucking horses which destroy the alpine environment. How fucking stupid is that?
If you want to protect our biodiversity, blaming foreigners on swellnet is pretty pointless. Call a politician, vote for the Greens, or lock on to a bulldozer.

I don't think it's as simple as closing the doors re immigration though. Tell me if you disagree, but the average great Aussie home and backyard way of life is completely unsustainable, in terms of environment. Urban footprint requires even more encroachment into remnant or regen vegetation. Last I read in the peer-reviewed material on this, it's medium density style living that strikes the balance between urban footprint and citizens' wellbeing.

Anyway, off to bed lads, have fun.

I disagree Terminal, about our continent not being Europe.
We’ve been part of Eurovision for a few years now

"https://edition.cnn.com/asia/live-news/coronavirus-outbreak-02-04-20/h_2...

I also like that link as it’s captured CNN calling it the Wuhan Coronavirus before they pandered to the CCP propaganda demands."

so funny they were all calling it something to this effect until it was deemed 'inappropriate'. fucking hilarious how political correctness works...

then the same press turned it into another counter productive childish ongoing gotcha game with trump

...it seems it's all they have...

"Despite EU leaders and WHO officials being opposed to border closures, a huge survey by Reuters found that citizens were overwhelmingly in support of such measures, with Asian countries showing the highest support for border closures."

Complete and major fuck up by the WHO

Basically if it wasn't for political correctness, the WHO would have advised the opposite to close borders ASAP and be safe rather than sorry and the world could have avoided all this."

complete and utter utter major fuck up by WHO, as the meme goes...

"you had one job to do!"

as you point out... our obsession with political correctness has become so perverse and pervasive it is now actually showing to be seriously dangerous ...not just pathetic and annoying...

I read an article about the key steps oz took to avert major disaster with this pandemic. one of them was a key date where australia just flat out stopped listening to the geneva office of the WHO. they continued to work with the phillipines office from there on instead ...good call...

this tells me there are many good people in, and roles to played by WHO, but there is also major corruption of the highest order within, and it starts at the top

another key point was that irish or pommy scottish WHO dude's vid that went viral, because he was spelling out the cold hard confronting truth, stark honest numbers and warnings, scared the shit out of people. if we continued to only listen to that tedros cunt the world would be fucked

Holy moly. I've never looked at this thread. I had no idea there was a veritable orgy of topics here where the mode of discussion is 'bukake mode'.

Immigration is about making it look like we've not had a recession since the 90s. Plain and simple. Without that new money coming in, we've had multiple recessions.

I too think the RE market is a giant ponzi scheme (and I submitted my membership application not that long ago!). I think Blowin's linkage to immigration as where the new sign-ups come from in no small part is pretty spot on. Obviously tax regimes also play a role. So has AirBNB. Some of our stakeholders have been told by wealth AirBNB moguls that AirBNB has no effect on the rental market (i.e. ABNB do not remove properties from the market)....eye roll, then why have we seen long term rental market listings quadruple in many markets in the space of a month?

That Betoota article is fucking brilliant. As my mate says, "we don't like socialism, unless it's for the already wealthy." How the masses don't see this doesn't leave me with much hope of avoiding...

All the 1930s style rhetoric others have mentioned. I've been saying since I my late teens (yeah, very weird I know) that (1) in about 20 or so years we'll see the makings of WW3, and that (2) China would be at the centre of it. I didn't realise that some pimpled-chinned teen was the second coming of Nostrodamus! All bow to my prescient OPINIONS ;)

I've had workings with Chinese organisations, my family (without going into details) has as well and with the culture more broadly... and my DoD contacts certainly have similar thoughts if you can get enough beers into them....

I think this quote from Blowin sums my experience, from those I know, and the readings I've done, really well: "Trump may say America first but China lives , eats , breathes , sleeps China and only China. It’s not China first , it’s China filling every spot on the podium and every spot thereafter."

The Chinese elite have quite literally seen themselves for centuries as the greatest race and culture on earth. You may want to have a read into the philosophies underpinning the phrase "the Middle Kingdom" mean and much literature that has flowed out of that. The Chinese people, broadly speaking (insert all the caveats about diversity of individuals and blah blah blah), culturally are very much "do what you can to get ahead because it is dog eat dog out there, and if it means cutting corners or hurting others....well, too bad so sad for them".

Have a read of this book (https://www.booktopia.com.au/destined-for-war-graham-allison/book/978132...) to if you want to understand why WW3 is on the cards and within most of our life times. Kevin Rudd and all the other China arse-kissers are akin to those who thought Hitler should be embraced. There is no more accurate comparison. I'm not saying the US and the West aren't without there issues. But you've got one hegemony where (for now) some form of democratic process and other institutions keeps the left and right elite from going full authoratarian landlord overlords, and on the other hand you have a wannabe global hegemon that is already those things.... I know which one I prefer...

So yeah, I'm liberal and I know my record matches that label. But a minority of the left (and some supporting Media) have done what the Tea Party and Fox have done on the right. Started a civil war and cannabilised their own kind to the detriment of society as whole.

"here are many good people in, and roles to played by WHO, but there is also major corruption of the highest order within, and it starts at the top" - sypkan

Yeah the CMOs here said fairly early on we can't trust what's coming from Geneva as it's inconsistent with what other info we're seeing.

on the China first thing and all the supposedly wonderful work they've done on infrastructure projects and lifting people out of poverty...

the CCP Princelings didn't set out to "lift the people out of poverty". They did it to make a fucktonne of money for themselves. This essentially what Deng Xiaoping said to the CCP members.

Regarding the BRI...I think if you look you'll see despite what the heads of various govt say about how wonderful it is, in many countries the people on the ground are very, very unhappy. Imported labour, roads to nowhere, procurement that favours Chinese suppliers (even just for groceries for worker camps), debt traps...bunch of Ministers get briefcases of money to sign off, and the masses get a very raw deal.

Don't even get me started on the South China Sea....Obama's biggest foreign policy mistake that will have consequences for decades.

I'd hardly say lifting people out of poverty- more like drowning them in debt.

Then again, if it's all for the greater good then what do a few million peasants matter? Plenty more where they came from.

https://asia.nikkei.com/Spotlight/Cover-Story/Mekong-River-nations-face-...

Oz Govt granted 1,000's of VIP's & Nationalities free passage during Quarantine.
No govt vaccinations for [visa] Slaves or births until the 6 months assimilation.
All o/s + kidz can Teach / Nurse mix freely in Hospitals Education + claim daycare.
Oz would be dead by the time we responded...

Aussie slaves (us) receive no entry or handouts until Bio assimilation vaccinations.
Oz is the only Nation that demands vaccinations for Rebates / Welfare / Schooling.
We are the Cybermen ...no looking elsewhere as we are those freaks of Nature.
The world points at us when you say freaks!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaccination_policy
Huge fines apply to only Aussies + soon only 'National' Birth/Licensing ONE OF US!

Govt bows to business by Taxing locals out of work for cheaper o/s replacements
GST taxes imposts Australia 4 x more than o/s goods...again favours o/s corps.
Sack 1 GST job > More productive to pay ( 1 [visa] slave + Ex Union Dole bludger ).

Qld Post Covid (Kick Start) favours & rewards Whiteshoe WH / NP / MP - kill plots
eg: Cableway strangles WH Gondwana + Blue Heart lifeblood fills Kelly's goblet.
WSR > BYO self serve (Not making this shit up!) Qldurrz will tell ya!

Fed Govt Starshot (10 year Intel Cold War) Military Schools / Unis > Silos > Bunkers
SEQ Black Gully Rocket Base launches 38 Rockets a year to sprinkle Starshots.
X File : Secret Rocket program here: https://www.swellnet.com/comment/667192

100% Oz local fear mongering environmentally destructive war effort recovery

Post GST Howard's WOMD War recovery kickstarted with Patriotic Prostitution.
2004 Barcode Babies supply line now fuels 2021 Oz Uni frontline patriot fightback.
Costello's Biometric Cybermen troops rally in number for the next 5 >10 years
Scomo / Dutto's biometric reprogram app just needs your gran's fingerprint kidz! .
https://trudewindnhouse.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/Be-connected-logo...
Rally support for our home grown Starshot Barcode Babies on the Frontline.
If you don't like it...we have an app for that as well...we don't talk about that one!

Yep! Of course they got a song for Costello's 2021 Barcode Baby app...'Say Yes Sir!'

Andy m - yeah it happens within Australia as well -when you look at cubbie station for example- not good really.. greedy farmers and greedy multi corps.
It all stinks really.
Tech- well I actually don't think we need to grow technology. I would like to see things revert back to before smart technology. Life was simpler, cheaper to maintain. We were all fine before mobile phones it wasn't a necessity .
Social media has taken over so much now and its a cesspool of information and opinions. everyone wants their slice of the pie. not all is bad but the bigger picture is it is too much and so our attention spans have been altered , I'm sure it affects the younger peoples brains to critically think .. as more time is spent grooming their selfie pics than reading up and learning about whats going on in the environment around them . Interesting that many of the billionaires these days are tech nerds- musk/gates/zuckerberg/bezos .. starting out in their garages/bedrooms with their old computers and sucking us in. for better or worse.. I say worse. People are willing to spend thousands on new phones , computers and gadgetry that in the big scheme of things is not really helping the world to become a better place. Kids are all glued to screens and phones and many addicted to violent video games, and snap chat, when they instead could be outside playing with other kids, being in nature and learning about growing food, being around animals, learning about sustainability , or learning an instrument ,art, building and creating and community ..all sorts. The amount of tech hardware that gets thrown away.. sure some gets recycled - but that's costly too. Mining for cobalt in Congo.. ( which is growing as demand for more and more tech grows ) children work in awful conditions so you can buy the latest apple watch etc. (Interesting - as a side note- Congo has a population of 84 million yet only 1,731 cases of covid so far and 61 deaths.)

etarip, salty, mowgli good posts.