Interesting stuff
You think , you think , you think.
That’s not science either.
If the WHO decisions were based on science they wouldn’t backflip their opinions as they have with the travel restrictions and the wearing of face masks.
I agree, it was a thought, and I'm presenting it as that, nothing more. Seems logical though doesn't it?
Here you go stunet & terminal from the New England Journal of Medicine, probably the most respected peer reviewed journal in the world. Pandemic or something else?
"On the basis of a case definition requiring a diagnosis of pneumonia, the currently reported case fatality rate is approximately 2%.4 In another article in the Journal, Guan et al.5 report mortality of 1.4% among 1099 patients with laboratory-confirmed Covid-19; these patients had a wide spectrum of disease severity. If one assumes that the number of asymptomatic or minimally symptomatic cases is several times as high as the number of reported cases, the case fatality rate may be considerably less than 1%. This suggests that the overall clinical consequences of Covid-19 may ultimately be more akin to those of a severe seasonal influenza (which has a case fatality rate of approximately 0.1%) or a pandemic influenza (similar to those in 1957 and 1968) rather than a disease similar to SARS or MERS, which have had case fatality rates of 9 to 10% and 36%, respectively.2
Craig....the irony being that you’re pushing as hard as anyone for adherence to lock down even though this directly contradicts the WHO’s directives.
Do you prefer your science to theirs ?
"If the WHO decisions were based on science they wouldn’t backflip their opinions" Um, yes they would in light of new information, that's how science works...
This actually touches on something that many in the non-scientific community struggle with, that scientific results are not facts, they are probabilistic in nature and always open to modification in light of new information.
"No amount of experimentation can ever prove me right; a single experiment can prove me wrong" Albert Einstein.
I'm not pushing for lockdowns?
When initial infection rates were 0.25 or so I was, but since we've kept it under control, not at all.
And now we have the hospital resources, testing and App to keep on top of outbreaks the slow, staggered re-opening of everything is what I'm for.
Covid 19 - Its a government plot says Koby Abberton to keep Australians captive for mass vaccinations..
Under normal circumstances the science would follow normal pathways - i.e intensive research, publication in peer-reviewed journal, followed by consensus or rebuttal, all happening over months if not years.
But with a fast-moving infectious virus they had days to formulate a strategy using limited information, then try and disseminate a united, coherent plan to the world, while always erring on the side of caution lest they bring the world's economy down. A grave challenge indeed - don't underestimate the consequences of that decision.
There were always going to be guttersnipes, the people finding faults, but as with all poliitcs, especially that which crosses cultural borders, perfect is the enemy of good.
Yes, they will make mistakes but it's no reason to tear the whole institution down.
People dipping in and out of expertise, climate change this week, bushfire specialists the next, now infectious disease experts while also moonlighting on social media as public policy know-it-alls, are the bane of modern life.
Simply got no clue about past successes, how science works, nor the complexity of problems or the highwire act of international diplomacy, but they'll put their views on social media and expect to be taken seriously.
First Australian barley exports, now China is suspending meat imports from Australia.
Interesting indeed...
Last two paragraphs Stu are bang on, and they'll make a buck out of along the way if they can.
Shortenism
Editorial published 26th February
Total deaths worldwide:
26th Februrary - 2800
12th May - 280,000+
Current estimate fatality rate is 3.4% i.e. more than double seasonal influenza
Peak Foreign Students vs Oz Flatlining Students is an Oz Libs born problem
2000 GST lays off mostly non compo workforce as House Prices Soar 40%.
2002 Lowest Wages > Highest Unemployment 7% + Highest for Youth 14%
2002 Mass Child Detention + Bali Bombings
2003 Women now Oz breadwinners
Howard's wretched GST mess of a Country had Aussies at each others throats.
2003 Howard's War led recovery cut US/UK - IRAQ trade so Oz could capitalize.
Massive Anti War Protests lined Oz Squares.
Poor Women were worn out...no child will be born in Howard's bleak landscape.
tbb: What has this got to do with 2020 Oz university student decline...(Everything!)
Howard is no catch so needed to pay women to turn them on.
GST onward lowest birthrate was a concern so a Baby Bonus was born.
2004 Libs pay & demand couples to illegally copulate outside of licensed brothels.
In fact prostitutes were paid several times over without once ever giving birth. Sick!
Loveless nameless part human Bar Code bratz were born...how many do you do!
Now you see don't you! The answer is right there, you don't need a Uni Degree.
2003 Poor wretches are the last crop of declining 2020 Uni sign ons.
The very reason for the race to the bottom...(Oz birth decline lends Asian Uni rise).
Howard's Wartime Barcode Batch is ready to serve as class of 2021...
Oz Unis should now reverse the trend over the next 5 years...then tails again.
Scomo has already enlisted Oz Unis for OZ made 2030 Starshot War recruits.
So what will change?
tbb's son is/was a Maths whizz Kid...Nerd camps/badges even taught other kids.
Anyhow as the crew say...half way thru Uni, drops out ( Now Standard for Oz Kids)
Why! ("Dad the course is retarded! Plain Dumb!") Going Backwards I swear !
Straight out says! "The Teacher's course is not worth the Money!" Quality wise!
Unis get more funds & look fantastic but $100k for pre school English Lessons.
All the class must dumb down to explain to the new guys what a 'Book' is. FFS.
Anyhow! My son is now a Maccas slave, paying back retards that sold his life away.
Scomo's New breed Military Camps will straighten out yer language barrier.
Uni kidz only need to speak binary for the ** Starshot * ((((( Rainbow Recovery )))))
Yep Terminal.
And this current topic started with a video by Tucker Carlson - a journalist.
The first fucking pillar of that trade is to ask 'Why? Why? And one more time, why?'
Carlson knew those physicians had been sidelined by their own associations, that even the evidence they gave was incomplete, yet rather than asking why they might do that, what their motives were, who were they purporting to serve, Carlson merely used them as a tool to further the FOX news agenda.
There was a bigger story, he knew it, and he censored it out.
That, Blowin, is why the outlet and the journalist matter so much.
Yep, agreed. All I saw in it was an opportunistic snipe session on Facebook and Google because they're taking news market share (See prev links).
Tucker Carlson - a journalist.
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhh Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa. Stop it stunet, you're killing me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Bane of modern life ?
Basically every leader in the world came from being nothing more than either a coddled argumentative fuck studying useless humanities at University or the beneficiary of nepotism. Sometimes both.
But now you’re taking the piss out of the powerless recipient of this decree-by- dickhead world to dare take up a few bits in cyberspace with their thoughts .
Best we stick to discussing the important variability in performance of fin rake then . God knows we’re all expert surfers.
You're all arse about, mate. I agree that most leaders are a waste of space. I've never said anything to the contrary.
But they're not the institutions being undermined by dipshit conspiracy theorists.
"Basically every leader in the world came from being nothing more than either a coddled argumentative fuck studying useless humanities at University or the beneficiary of nepotism. Sometimes both"
Angela Merkel is a scientist, quantum chemistry by trade, does that count?
VicLocal don't laugh - these are the nominations for that "Noble Prize" in Journalism:
Tucker Carlson
Sean Hannity
Andrew Bolt
Peta Credlin
Chris Kenny
All fine examples of journalists from the same exemplary stable!!!
I don’t grant these institutions the same sanctity that you do. Why the fuck would I when the WHO won’t even acknowledge Taiwan ?
Sure , you’ll tell me that’s a high-wire act of diplomacy . But you’re wrong. It’s a case of adapting a political stance based on the flow of cold hard cash....AKA corruption.
That’s why the WHO said that trade and travel restrictions on China were racist- FFS . It want the outcome of a pressurised decision making process.
For all the well intentioned, hard working experts who labour for the WHO , this does not detract from the fact that they are corrupt in their decision making process at the very top of the hierarchy.
Once that integrity is lost , why should anything they say be considered incontrovertible truth ?
Best you remember that Occam’s razor isn’t applicable to every situation throughout world history.
Human motivation is based and powerful and dictates basically everything we do....sex , money , power.
Chaos only explains so much .
Terminal.....what the fuck does quantum chemistry have to do with economics, ideology, human welfare , health , military and international diplomacy ?
Her science degree didn’t prevent her from unleashing the most destabilising force that Europe had experienced in over a generation.
My point is.....people have opinions. They don’t have to be an expert to hold those opinions. If people having opinions is the bane of modern existence then get me the fuck out of here.
Most leaders are dealing on a day to day basis with subjects they’ve got zero idea about and yet the punter on the street is the problem ? Institutions consist of a collective of individuals. All of whom are prone to the same petty impulses as the rest of us. If you don’t think this affects the outcomes of institutional decision making then you are very wrong.
Look what’s unfolded with the institution of US governance for exhibit A.
So the world would be a better place without the WHO?
No.
Where did that come from ?
My only reason for this whole effort was that Youtube shouldn’t be pulling stuff off the internet . The WHO is made up of humans. Humans are fallible. The internet should not be purged because people dare contradict the WHO. It’s called opinion and it’s not the end of the world if a few people wave placards in a public square as a result of these opinions being aired on the internet.
Who gives a fuck about that nothing consequence ? More harm than good will arise from this internet censorship of opinion which is being shoehorned in under the guise of public safety.
An Allegory:
In the early-90s, the Ethiopian government was building electrical infrastructure across Addis Ababa, the national capital. Think coal-fired power plants, to satellite sub-stations, then suburban poles and wires, and onwards to people's houses.
At the same time AIDS got a foothold in the Horn of Africa and cut a swathe through the Ethiopian population.
Influential people in the suburbs of Addis saw two things: electrical poles go up, and a deadly virus arrive. Despite all the scientific evidence to the contrary they made a prima facie case that the two were connected - i.e the electrical poles brough the virus - and that belief took hold through Addis and large parts of Ethiopia.
They figured they knew the cause of the virus so they rejected the WHO's scientific approach to AIDS prevention, and in some cases tore down power lines that provided light and refrigeration to their own communities. Their opinions cost the lives of millions and millions of people.
Those outspoken and inluential Ethiopians didn't test their hypothesis, nor did the they look to the wider world for other evidence. They reacted to the most obvious thing in front of them - human, all too human etc.
The belief of those Ethiopians might seem ridiculous to us, but when I see people claiming their opinion is as valid as an expert's opinion, or holding signs connecting Bill Gates to corona to 5G or whatever, I see people every bit as stymied in their worldview as the Ethiopians were.
But you’re also accepting that the people in charge of internet censorship remain well intentioned.
That’s not a trust I’m willing to place in governments who have proven themselves completely untrustworthy.
Udo-
Covid 19 - Its a government plot says Koby Abberton to keep Australians captive for mass vaccinations..
Lol, there’s a man who’s medical advice you’d trust.
Tucker Carlson, Trump, Alan Jones, the Minister for Manila, Bronwyn Bishop, Andrew Bolt are just Uber-grifters hell bent on making a lot of money out of the collapse of decent society as we know it.
They mug complete morons for a living.
I loathe this elite fuckers sitting in their mansions not giving one single fuck about the harm their conspiracy theories and bigotry do to others.
Mate, when it comes to humans and the power of persuasion, I'm like the reaper in 'The Book Thief' - "Humans scare me".
You were the one who suggested 'Century of the Self' so you know how vulnerable humans are to persuasion, in that case via marketing - we've got a century of advertising to prove it! - but in other cases more insidious forms such as govt propaganda, or right now, conspiracy theories.
It's all irrational but we fall prey to it over and over again.
CV required a unified response but, particularly in America, that's been white-anted by conspiracy theorists with no qualifications whatsoever and the followers they generate via persuasive means.
So you can hold up the virtue of free-thinking, but mostly what I see online, especially right now, is modal and not to be viewed as some paragon of unobstructed thought. And when it comes to thwarting a necessary collective response then, yes, it is dangerous.
What I'm seeing in the USA is the greatest example of why representative democracy is way superior to direct democracy.
Can you imagine handing over the running of the USA to the gun nuts / libertarian mob? It's bad enough with the Republican fuckwits running the show, but at least they don't walk into fast food restaurants armed with bazookas. Representative democracy at least sands off the really rough edges of society. That silly cow Hanson wants mob rule. God help us if she got her way. Some people would be rounding up South Koreans for deportation.
I don’t really follow much of what goes on in America, Stu . I aren’t familiar with who anyone is in their political arena so it doesn’t interest me. I think I’ve heard Trump speak about three times.
I don’t “ research “ on the internet. I’ve never seen Plandemic. I’ll look at zerohedge cause it’s often outlandish but sometimes prescient. Macrobusiness, SMH, Swellnet , sometimes Guardian, sometimes The Conversation. I’ll read links that I’m sent or that are found in these places for the most part.
Don’t watch fox or any other network news. That was recommended to me by the Youtube algorithms ( ironically enough ) . Probably because I’ve watched an item or two which has previously been suggested to me elsewhere.
Don’t listen to any talk back radio.
I don’t disappear down conspiracy theory rabbit holes on the internet for the most part.
But I like that all that other shit is out there . It’s 99 percent harmless and it’s always good to have opposing views even if they are driven by obvious vested interest.
I just abhor censorship. For every argument that crazies will react to internet bullshit , there’s an even worse argument for allowing authority to start telling us what we are allowed to read / see / hear / think.
You can’t tell me that the crew down in Melbourne protesting government oppression are any worse than Peter Dutton and he’s the type of clown who’d be choosing what’s appropriate or not for us to see on the internet.
I thought the gun nuts basically did already run the place?
(Slightly tongue-in-cheek, but follow the money...)
True Pops but there's scales of gun nuts and accountability for organisations. The NRA are complete c$nts but they can get sued, and their leaders can get chucked in jail, if they go beyond a certain level of craziness. Same too with political representatives.
If laws were set by individual voters, who is responsible when shit gets way out of hand? Those nutters (voters) the NRA represent are way scarier than the arseholes in charge of the NRA.
Yep, agreed that those lines of accountability and checks and balances are important. Ideally though there'd be some further balances on the finiancial sway of lobby groups and super PACs over there (and here!)
WHO - The 5 Heroic Acts
[ Warning ...artzy B&W montage with cinematic voiceover ]
Act 1
Act 2
Please Donate to see WHO Vanishing Acts ... 3, 4 & 5.
10% of proceeds will help rescue the Covid SAFE app
#1 OZ WHO coronavirus expert ...says you can stick yer Covid SAFE app.......
https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/coronavirus/australias-leading-coronaviru...
Pretty much answers yer next question...maybe WHO are useful after all.
And here too Pops. Politicians in both countries spend way too much time kissing the arses of donors and potential donors rather than doing their actual jobs. Being a competent fundraiser / bribe collector is more important than being a competent public official. That brainless swine Trump being the prime example.
"Never ASSUME, because when you ASSUME, you make an ASS of U and ME."
Guilty, m'lud.
And gobsmacked by this from Blowie:
"I don’t really follow much of what goes on in America, Stu . I aren’t familiar with who anyone is in their political arena so it doesn’t interest me. I think I’ve heard Trump speak about three times.
I don’t “ research “ on the internet. I’ve never seen Plandemic. I’ll look at zerohedge cause it’s often outlandish but sometimes prescient. Macrobusiness, SMH, Swellnet , sometimes Guardian, sometimes The Conversation. I’ll read links that I’m sent or that are found in these places for the most part.
Don’t watch fox or any other network news. That was recommended to me by the Youtube algorithms ( ironically enough ) . Probably because I’ve watched an item or two which has previously been suggested to me elsewhere.
Don’t listen to any talk back radio."
WOW!
Years and years, and hundreds if not thousands of comments, and this is what has been 'informing' your 'debate' (and of those, MacroBUSINESS is a relative latecomer)?!
You left out Blowipedia!!!!
BEAM ME UP, SCOTTY!
Can you quietly fuck off with the straight ad hominen attacks?
We're quite capable of having a rousing difference of opinion without that bullshit.
Anyway, on Sunday Donald Trump fired off over a hundred Tweets in one day.
Cool head in a crisis?
Who's Donald Trump?
Stu - hear, hear.
Here? Here?
...
"Who's Donald Trump?"
Taken in context, I won't lie, that made me laugh.
@Stunet
Cheers, never heard that story, the wind farm BS affecting peoples health is very similar, i watched this YouTube video on it a while back.
"My only reason for this whole effort was that Youtube shouldn’t be pulling stuff off the internet"
Shit gets pulled from Youttube for various reasons every day.
But i have to admit it's a hard one, where do you draw the line on crap like conspiracy theories?
Ideally they shouldn't need pull conspiracy theory stuff, but the big difference with this Covid-19 related stuff is some of the disinformation becomes almost dangerous.
Lots of false information in some of these videos saying it doesn't spread by close contact or that lock downs, social distancing etc doest work or is not needed.
Then you get people doing the exact opposite of what is needed and you get out breaks, the same deal with all this anti vaxer stuff.
The scary thing is how popular some of these ideas have become among people that generally aren't into these things, some are pretty clever in mixing fact with fictions etc
I'd go further Indo, the conspiracy crap posted onto youtube and other sites is dangerous and has already caused loss of life.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/24/us/chloroquine-poisoning-coronavirus....
https://www.medpagetoday.com/infectiousdisease/covid19/86094
There's very good reason for removing the clearly idiotic content from websites. It seems large sections of society are unable to distinguish what is and isn't a reliable source, that coupled with the lack of quality science based education is a recipe for disaster.
Finally , I’ve located the kinds of people who think that every cliff edge in the world needs a handrail and a warning sign.
Always wondered if you actually existed.
Im actually the type of person that if there is a handrail I jump it and sit on the other side.
But i can see where Youtube and social media are coming from with deleting these videos, it really does seem like people are starting to loose their shit, and people are believing a lot of this stuff and it is becoming dangerous or fuel situations like we saw in USA or in Melb yesterday.
The flip side is, by removing the videos, they almost play into their hands, and it becomes "look i told you they want to suppress the truth" etc
Nice bit of reductio ad absurdum there cobba. Fits nicely into the grab bag along with the strawman assembly kit though I imagine.
Have it cunts