# Bitcoin #

I think it is more complicated than that. Dot.com, maybe, but maybe not. Financial predators definitely exist in the space but I dont think they control it. Usually they pump the price of coins, create fomo (fear of missing out) then dump for a profit.
At the moment it seems to me that massive mainstream adoption is happening and the market is going crazy. Some exchanges have stopped taking new members until they can handle the volume. It is really important to understand blockchain technology to get your head around what this could be. There are many, many significant people in finance that have resisted then embraced the whole thing. It is most likely that this is the biggest shift that will take place in our lifetime and a huge opportunity to get in early. Yes, it is still early. I looked enviously at the person that taught me 8 months or so ago wishing that I had got in as early as he did. Yesterday someone said the exact same thing to me as I was explaining to things to him. It does not have to be a huge investment but should always be an amount you can afford to lose. Also remember that nobody knows “for sure” where this will go. If they say that they do they are full of shit. A quick google search can either validate or trash any opinion that you may have about it.

Blowin, to be fair mate, you just don’t understand it. The dot.com comment I feel is very likely true, I’m aware I am playing a cat and mouse game.

Thats one way of seeing it. As I said if anyone says they know what is going to happen.....

“There will be a crypto-winter, though not in ’18, as the industry is in the spring of its youth.”
From an article on the consensys website
BTW @shoredump Iam not sure “ to be fair” belongs in your comment

Trading is definitely a cat and mouse game, I must agree. I tend to hold.

Of course I don't understand it.

I dont understand how someone could believe that the " Tron " is going to one day be the virtual currency that unites the globe amongst other things.

Topsy - Have you read the whole thread ? Ive stated that I believe that a cryptocurrency is the future. And I've plainly said that I know nothing about the workings of any of the entire scene and Shoredump was just being his usual polite self and it's appreciated.

So glad you provided that reassuring quote from the website regarding the future of cryptos in 2018. For a while there I was thinking that the future was anything but in stone and that the crypto market was a fad propped up by neophyte amateurs !

Cheers for setting me straight with your iron clad assurance that the craze will still be powering this time in 2019.

I think it's time for this old favourite:

Again .....good luck to everyone involved and I hope you make a mint !

I hope that I can be part of a conversation here that is beneficial to everyone, myself included. I am into learning and sharing experience. If you think I am full of shit thats ok too. I would still be happy to paddle out next to you and share the waves as mates.

@blowin thanks mate

I have not read the whole thread, I probably will at some stage but I am pretty much doing this full time now and the screen time kills me. I think that I have some valuable insights to add and am looking forward to sharing whatever I can.

Sounds good.

I imagine the crew invested will look forward to your insights.

Cheers

I think the word "Cryptocurrency" is misleading, yes there is some Cryptos that are set up to be coins and then there are tokens similar to coins, but hundreds of cryptos are not really currency as such, its hard to explain but you are investing more in the technology like it's a share, many cryptos have all kinds of different uses mostly aimed at business through blockchain technology and smart contracts and different platforms.

@Topsy Hopefully you can give us some ICO to check out in the future, this will most likely be my next step into crypto world, i know this is where the ream money can be made, but also can come with much more risk.

At the moment I am looking into origintrail, not sure whether I will invest yet but it seems ok at first look. I will post about why I think that later whenI have more time. They have a whitelist, which is a list of investors that are guaranteed an opportunity to invest. It is free to join the whitelist, and there is no obligation to invest after joining. If it proves to be popular the whitelist will probably be the only way to get in. They will close the whitelist when it is full and that will be it. The whitelist is a good sign because it makes for a more orderly ico. In the recent past some have been shitfights, where millions have been raised in a matter of minutes with everyone trying to invest at the same time (ico starting time) The result has been most transactions hanging out there in cyberspace and the hard cap of the ico being reached before yours gets processed. You dont lose your money but its a pain in the arse. So get on the whitelist if you think you might be interested. Also join their telegram group (the paperplane icon at the bottom of their webpage) There you can ask questions you may have. Sign up for email updates on the website and make sure the emails are not being sent to your spam folder. These are the first steps for any ico. Research, google for reviews paying extra attention to reddit and steemit. Get on the whitelist if there is one. Join chat channel (telegram usually) more questions and research etc etc. (I use the telegram app on ios, android is available too)
READ THIS CAREFULLY: An ico will Never, never, never ask you to contirbute via their telegram channel or ask you to contribute through an email. If you follow any such links you will lose your money and there will be no way of getting it back. Scammers will also create fake websites pretending to be the ico. If you are in doubt ask on telegram and make sure you are getting a response from someone who is a member of admin. When you visit an ico homepage double check the url. Stay alert and dont get sucked in.
Please think for yourself, I am not the chosen one. If we work and analyse together there will be a much greater chance of success.

Cheers what is your strategy for ICO's?

Buy in and hodl? or buy in and then sell when it normally jumps in price when it hits the exchange?

And do you ever find that the price you buy in at the ICO can end up cheaper than when it hits the exchange after people sell off?

I just noticed on graphs sometimes as soon as these hit the exchanges they jump in price get big sell offs then the price drops right off (maybe even cheaper than the ICO price?) and then can go flat for quite some time and might take a while to get back to the price people sold off straight away for.

But that said i haven't checked out that many, and it seems graphs going back before November can be deceiving as seems things are changing so so fast.

Fuck I can’t get my head around all this.

Indo, how much are you up since the day you started?

Blowin you’ve obviously got a bit of coin given the wandering lifestyle you lead, how come you’re not interested in this?

Because i believe it's a pyramid scheme .

And if there is any inherent value in it , as those invested propose , then I can't see it. But I haven't given it the slightest bit of attention to be honest.

I'm too busy concentrating on my own deal.

I don't think I'm smarter than the people involved and I'm trying to not sound condescending when I say I think it's a hoax. Smarter people than me have gotten into situations such as these : https://www.sovereignman.com/finance/how-isaac-newton-went-flat-broke-ch...

I prefer to invest in things I at least half understand.

But people are making money so good luck to them.

Thanks for the reply, to me it seems like something that at any second could completely disintergrate.

As you say, good luck to all involved but I’m just left scratching my head

Im on the fence with origintrail at the moment. Had a closer look. Going to wait and see. There may be better ones coming

Tron

If anyone is really keen please take a look at the youtubers and cheap courses that I mentioned above, learn about the blockchain. I will check back regularly and answer any questions to the best of my ability.

Tron is getting plenty of hype at the moment and looks pretty good to me. If you decide to buy remember that if it drops in price after you buy, nearly every time it will go back up again if you wait and hold. Im talking about cryptos in general now, not just tron. Panic selling feeds the fatcats.

Its not that hard to understand if you put a little effort in.

@ Goofyfoot

I added up my accounts yesterday about 15K maybe 16K+ when markets up or down to about 12-13K on a bad day.

Put in 5K but not all in one go first week was only $120, then just been adding as go, the missus has had me on a leash with this.(if I had added all in one go id be up another 5K)

Ive been pretty conservative also, diversifying a lot, i think i could have made more if took more risk, when i only had a few cryptos i always found it was boom or bust account was like a yo yo, now doesn't change as much.

Hindsight is one of those things though, you look at the charts and its so easy to say i should have cashed out then and bought back in there, or put it all on this crypto and id be up another 10k or more.

But I'm happy with my returns.

It's been a learning process, if i look back at my first post in this thread id kind of cringe, typical newbie thinking i might pick the next Bitcoin, I'm far from an expert now, but i feel like I'm out of the total kook stage, I'm now more a frothing grom now, hopefully one day i will be a ripper or a seasoned crypto surfer.

@indo-dreaming sounds like you are on the right track, hope you continue to do well, there is no substitute for learning.

@ indo-dreaming my strategy for icos is to buy and hold. I am very fussy about the ones I invest in. The team must have excellent credentials. There must be a reason for the project to be on the blockchain. They must be open and understanding on their chat channel and answer all questions asked including negative ones, even dumb ones from people who dont quite understand the project. All the good ones do. The chat channel (usually telegram) should be very active. There should be positive reviews on reddit and steemit.
It is also becoming more common for icos to not chase exchanges to list them (for legal reasons) This can mean that they only get picked up by small exchanges to begin with. Once the big ones see them gaining momentum they will pick them up, potentially sending the price soaring. Bitclave and blockv are two examples of this.
I was recently disappointed with the LOCI ico. I wanted to invest and was ready to go, but found out about it a bit late and it was already half way through. The idea is brilliant. It was run by a patent lawyer, patents are perfect for the blockchain. Once your idea/ invention is on the blockchain it is there for good and nobody can say they thought of it before you. It is also ridiculously cheap and fast compared to going through patent lawyers. The only problem was that they pegged the token price to the ethereum price before the sale started and ethereum went up. This meant that the value for money went down as the sale went on. The ico momentum stalled and they raised less than half of what they were trying to raise. I eventually decided to wait for LOCI to be listed on exchanges and see where the price goes. It was a lineball decision and I will probably buy a few, maybe a lot, depending on price.

Is anyone not making money on crypto currency?? Serious question. It’s an interesting moment in time. Will it last another week, another month, another year?

@Topsy

About Ethereum that's actually what I've thought could be a problem.

Looking at sites like this https://www.coinschedule.com to be honest i have no idea where to start, just seems like so many CIO's doing exactly the same thing as what plenty of cryptos are already doing, i guess you really have to dig through a lot of CIOs to find a good project and something unique or that might be done peter than others already existing..

BTW. I don't get why Deep brain chain is still there?

@Shoredump

If you stuck to the top 50 cryptos i don't think its currently possible, unless you bought high and sold in a dip.

But i think you could lose money on some of those really really cheap cryptos, like Pac Coin, Linda, ember etc if you bought in halfway through a pump and dump and then sold after the dump.

Look at the past charts and some of those coins have major pump and dumps that can happen very quickly..

Hey Topsy thanks for helping to enlighten dumb bastards like me,watched half of this vid

The bullshit just gets thicker. Seriously, how does one throughly research the credentials of a certain coins management before putting the hard earned down? Lets all just be honest here, its 100% speculation, 100% gambling, and none of you who claim to have real money in the game haven't got a clue if and when you coins value will go up or down.

It’s all speculation. As simple as that.

Blowin I enjoyed your post about stock investment, it’s something I am learning more about currently and late last year I made some (hopefully) logical and sensible investments on the ASX based on some of the premises you described.

This crypto stuff I don’t understand, I have described it before as ethereal and I stand by that.
No one has had claimed to have actually reconverted their crypto profits into legal currency - indo, don, topsy - can you clarify whether you have? Surely you want some confidence in the liquidity of your holdings to be able to make your paper profits real when you want to.
For me the whole thing is another example of the rapid growth that technology, the internet, and our global connectedness facilitates but that our governments have not yet been able to control through legislation (Uber is kind of similar). Eventually these slower processes catch up and the playing field changes. Soon enough I believe governments will move to regulate the sector/industry/pyramid or whatever you want to call it and the parameters will change.

@DW has already stated he has pulled out real world money, the guy can’t lose now. I gave my local newsagent $1600 a couple of days ago to deposit into my account, you’re not suggesting they are a part of this conspiracy you speak of are ya? I honestly think some people are scared of change, while others are excited by it, and that’s what’s going on here. Here is some info on the one I’m involved in if you are interested in learning about it.
Sure, it might fail, so might my surfboard, my marriage, my car, my flight, my 2 weeks in Indo, my health. Nothing in life is for certain.
Have any of you guys had the fortune of sitting up the top of the reef at Cloudbreak? I was lucky enough to be there on a flawless, double overhead day. That Muzza swell snuck under Oz and steamed into the Fijian reef pass, kinda under the radar because of all the footage that was coming out of Indo. Anyway, what I learned out there that day was that when these bombs popped up, the really good ones always looked like big close outs. There were shorter waves with obvious corners, and smaller inside ones that were much more manageable. But if you wanted one of the bombs, you had to commit to a big wall of water that for all money looked like it was going to shut you down.
The only way to get a screamer from the top of that reef is to commit early.
Life hey, it’s an adventure isn’t it...
https://steemit.com/cryptocurrency/@lennartbedrage/the-ripple-xrp-effect...

Totally agree with your sentiment shoredump, and it’s great to hear don has locked in profits.
I never mentioned conspiracy.
Yeh it’s all and adventure and so it should be, just hoping the fine people at swellnet who are rising this one manage to get out the doggy door at the right time.

So keen to get to cloudbreak one day.

Everyday people convert Cryptocurrency back into fiat, it's not hard people even pay their loans and bills with cryptos through sites like this https://www.livingroomofsatoshi.com

I haven't done it personally because I'm putting money in not taking it out, I do have a friend who has taken money out though.

On Ripple personally I'm not convinced it will be adopted they way some think.

From what i understand (and I've heard from quite a few sources now) Ripple is two things one is Ripple protocol that the banks are interested in using, the other is XRP token, that there is no guarantee they will use, and well i doubt they are going to pay market price for it, if they are going to use it they will use the 60% that is currently held.

Indo D that’s awesome, good on you for having a crack, and it’s paying off! Good luck with it all in the future

Thanks Indo, I had a listen. All valid points. Who knows what will happen, I’m just trusting the currency exchange mate with this, following his lead. He seems to think the remaining 60% can be overcome. Will be an interesting ride regardless. He’s in it for massive gains, so let’s just see what happens hey. I won’t be pulling out any for a long time yet

Yeah Roystein, picking that doggydoor at the right time is a problem

Topsy, re Origintrail, it's a bit rough they're only allowing a minimum 0.5 ETH spend. That's $500 which for me, on an ICO with HUGE risk is too much. I typically only throw $100 at ICO's given their huge risk.

@donweather I’ve gone a bit cold on origintrail, cold be ok but projects really need to stand out

This is what I think is happening in the market.
It all started with bitcoin. It started to gain some traction thanks to its uncrackable source code. It was adopted by shady people (think silk road) which gave it some volume. It was never intended to be a drug dealers or underworld currency. Watch the video link I posted to see how it works and why the technology is such a safe way to store value. Rich people and others, especially techies who fully undestood its potential started to diversify and buy into bitcoin. It made crazy gains in 2017 to the point where the network could not handle the volume of transactions. Bitcoin needed to evolve and upgrade but factions could not agree and as a group they dragged their feet. Disagreement within the factions over which path they would take lead to more than 1 “fork” A fork is when one faction decides to create their own bitcoin blockchain with certain modifications to improve performance. At this point a snapsot of the bitcoin blockchain is taken, recording all the wallets holding bitcoin. Every wallet holding bitcoin is credited with the same amount of the new coin. For the purpose of this discussion I will be refering to the forked coin called bitcoin cash (BCC) BCC is considered to be a genuine competitor to bitcoin. This has created uncertainty around bitcoin. There is still a good chance that bitcoin will prevail but it is far from certain.
Bitcoin in 2017 went from $800 to $20000 USD at its peak and is now around 13 - 16K USD lately. It started a few years ago at lower than 1 cent.
You cant get anywhere near the massive gains that you get with other coins (altcoins, meaning every coin other than bitcoin) because bitcoin is already very expensive. Many altcoins start out a couple of cents or less. More and more people and putting money into the market for the first time and choosing altcoins over bitcoin for the reasons previously mentioned. Most dont do it blindly and good projects with solid teams are making massive gains. Its not that hard to sift through the shit, other people do it for you if you dont have the time yourself. There are good review sites, you tubers etc that read the project white papers, check out the team behind the project analyse the use cases and people that call out the shitcoins and scammers. Never jump in blindly, when in doubt or not enough info, dont invest. Remember that they all sound great when described by the creators, they want your money. There is always plenty of info and online chat out there if the project is any good.
So I think that altcoins are the new bitcoin and the market will continue to grow, people are calling 2018 the year of the altcoin. There is definitely no need to put the house on it. Some guy on the news sold his house and put it all on bitcoin, he is probably rich now but a fucking idiot in my opinion, he could have lost it all.
So research icos and newly listed coins. A couple of hundred dollars could could turn into anything.
An example, in the dentacoin ico recently $300 bought you 2,500,000 DCN as I write this that investment is worth over 11K USD or 14K AUD
It is a great project that I have been following since the beginning and the team work their arses off. It is currently over valued in relation to where they are in their development but, that said they are signing up dentists all over the world.
So... find a good project, discuss it here and on other forums before deciding. Research it on google and youtube. If it is an ico with a whitelist, get on quick and reserve your place if it looks half decent, it is a race with others to get on before the whitelist closes. Not all icos use a whitelist. Whitelists are generally more professional and orderly. Some hyped non-whitelist icos have raised amounts like 20+ million in a couple of minutes (no bullshit) ICOs like that are becoming less common lately.
Hope this post is not too disjointed, I am doing it on an ipad.
Ask questions, correct me if needed, I’m learning too. I will be back to answer questions to the best of my ability.
Do the courses I mentioned before: they are cheap and worth the time.
Again, remember, be wary of scammers and you dont need to invest a lot to do well. Get on a couple of good projects and use profits to grow your investment. Dont blame me if you lose your money I am sticking my neck out trying to help people but I could be wrong, nobody knows for sure. If you have listened to what I have said you wont be risking a fortune THERE IS NO NEED TO. I invested a couple of hundred here, a couple of hundred there over 6-8 months.
Good luck
I like the wepower ico at the moment, get on the whitelist to reserve your place then research,research research.

Thanks Topsy and I couldn't agree more regarding the altcoin flurry right now.

Just a question on Wepower...........how is this different from PowerLedger?

So how do these currencies differ from a Ponzi scheme? All gains are based on attracting more people into the market who are prepared to pay ever higher prices for a limited resource. So yep, get in early get out the doggy door and.......be just another parasite.

@Topsy, @DW or @ID, I’d like to start on a few ICOs, I started looking into this one you mentioned Topsy. It asks for my Etherium wallet address. Can I just use cash deposits into a coinspot account for this, or do I need to buy Etherium first then exchange that for WPW. I like the sound of it.

SD, the WePower website has instructions on setting up your ETH wallet. This of course just sets up your wallet. You then need to transfer ETH into it from an exchange. Assuming you want to go ahead and proceed with funding the ICO.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1AygNxKDj8toyyFGZFON9j-C1h-s3PcwW/view

Biggest advice when setting up wallet is backup/safely/securely store private keys and mnemonic. If you lose these then you're fcked. Once wallet is set up you just need to cut and paste wallet address into KYC/Whitepaper registration. It doesn't need any ETH in it at this stage.

Not much time to answer questions at the moment but remember to NEVER send ether from an EXCHANGE to an ico. It must be from your own wallet or it will be most probably lost.
@donweather I need to research that. I have invested in power ledger and it is an awesome project. I think I heard somewhere that they can coexist but need to have a closer look. Great question, keep researching and please share what you find.

@shoredump once you have deposited cash into coinspot you can exchange it on coinspot for ether. You then need to move it to your own wallet. Dont send to an ico direct from your coinspot wallet, it will be most likely lost.
Please note guys that the ethereum blockchain is congested and slow at the moment, it should soon be fixed (casper update) but to make transactions timely you need to set the gwei (gas price) a bit higher. Not the gas limit, the gas limit just needs to be set to enough to cover the transaction and any extra you set there wont be used if it is not needed. Not sure if you have the option to change gwei and gas limit in coinspot but you do in myetherwallet when you are sending to an ico. If you are looking to go in on an ico join their telegram channel, you will find them very helpful with questions including reccommended gas and gwei settings for when you invest. Once you connect on telegram always read the pinned message, if there is one, first. It will answer most of your questions. Also double check that you are on the real ico website before joining. Telegram link from ico website is a paper plane icon.

Coinspot
ICO
Ethereum
Casper
Gwei
Gas limit
Myetherwallet
Telegram channel

All of these words mean nothing to me.. and that’s just one forum post! It’s like you’re speaking Double Dutch.