Surfing and Veganism

uplift wrote:

Excuse me Mr Benski... err... are you... err... sure...

'Shut up dullard!!! I'm the lecturer here! GET OUT!!!'

:-) irony

Stok wrote:

wellymon wrote:

Stokie,My wife was a vego for 10 years, not a vegan? She was constantly sick, as she tells me, before I meat her.
The doctors said she lacked so much , iron, protein and zinc , especially bringing a new one into this world and had to change her diet drastically. She did, but took along time to wean herself from all vegetables to , fish, then to meat.

Hey Stoky, no offense mate, but I have known many a vegan and vego freak, to tell you the truth, they and their family are always sick, with this, with that.!!!
After 6 months of being a vegan, as you've stated? be aware champ.

As meat is not bad, it's SUGAR and PROCESSED FOODS mate;)

Ah welly, her constant sickness must have been the vegan/vego thing, of course! It's like people become vegan, get a headache one day...it must be because they're vegan! Trust me I know the feeling, I had a stomach cramp a while back - immediately assumed it was because I was vegan. But common sense does prevail.

Seriously though, if you can clearly explain to me about the link between being constantly sick, and being vegan, that would be great.

It's interesting, you're not the first one to bring up an anecdote of someone being malnourished as a vegan/vego. Like the lads in this forum have been saying - it's socially acceptable to be obese or overweight, underweight on the other hand...is weird. Maybe it's an instinctual thing, as in, it's better to be overweight to see out the hard times, so we tend to worry less about overweight people. We do worry more about underweight people it seems - both have health consequences. I'm sure many omnivores use this as one of their many go to excuses when they're about to eat or buy some meat.

I mean, I could easily say - "yeah I know guy who used to be vegan, but one day decided to be an omnivore. Had heaps of energy to start with, said he felt great. Then after a year or two he started putting on weight, and couldn't drop it. He reduced his meat intake so much until he was nearly a vegan again, then he started losing weight again."

Or how about this - "I knew a woman who was a meat eater from birth, she was obese, had type 2 diabetes, high blood pressure and died of heart disease."

Obviously any diet has its associated challenges, and it's pretty clear that as being a vegan it is easier to be thinner, and being a meat eater it is easier to be fatter. But as has been mentioned in this thread, provided you eat a balanced, well rounded diet (vegan or omnivore) and exercise, you're probably going to be fine.

Although to be honest I'd like to see an exact comparison between the health risks of an unhealthy vegan diet vs an unhealthy omnivorous diet,

Jesus Stok - the guy's wife had 10 years experience as a vego, had blood tests highlighting low mineral balances and a doctors opinion stating she had to change diet, which turned out to be anecdotally correct. You think your fictional thought-experiment stories are somehow comparable? What would you like, a double-blind trial on one person's experience?

See, the ever bright, shiny lights beckon benski...

Again, you commented on, felt the need to comment on my factual comment, and my factual experiences.

Despite saying, in a swillnut shell:

Doctors have no expertise in nutrition or exercise... neither do I... fact... therefore I assert that following my advice to follow the advice of doctors regarding exercise and nutrition will be successful

I have expertise and experience in that very subject. I have to deal with the exact scenario that you, admittedly with no experience or expertise, feel the need to assert.

Burgeoning epidemics, waiting lists. Very often frustrated people steadfastly following very flawed advice. Eat sugar, avoid fat. Especially avoid saturated fat. Fuck your hormones. That's what HRT is for... relax!!! Bottom line... all 'carbs' convert to sugar. Run... its cholesterol...insulin. Hormones. 'Cardio.' 'Intensity'.' All with next to no expertise or experience. The beat goes on.

The benski beat. Muscle in, out, turf me out, turf me in. Retract... assert... withdraw... advance. Pyramid's up, pyramids down... dull... bright...

'Doctors have no expertise in nutrition or exercise... neither do I... fact... therefore I assert that following my advice to follow the advice of doctors regarding exercise and nutrition will be successful'

Maybe it wasn't your best lecture. But, its what you do. Maybe doctors have shitload of nutrition and exercise training... maybe you do, so... maybe the epidemics are shrinking... maybe... well... maybe... maybe... not. Yeh... not. Fuck'n nots... notted fuck'n webs... nets... nuts... swillnuts!!! Wait a minute... its coming... its musclin' in... well out... its got a fuck'n ring to it ... gotta luv em... fuck'n swillnots!!! Piles of em!!!

Hehe. Again, at least you're making me laugh. I'm laughing at you not with you but whatever, the effect is the same so I'm grateful to you.

I don't think you actually read anything I wrote, just what you think I wrote. I think it's that persecution complex I talked about. Think what you like, but not every one is out to get you or prove you wrong. And sadly you haven't changed my mind, despite your clear knowledge and experience from teaching government accredited courses, because you haven't explained anything. You've just wasted your own time telling the world you know more than a guy who claims no expertise. Partly why I'm laughing at you.

I'll await the inevitable paragraphs long post full of exclamation marks, declarations of authority and weak attempts to misrepresent and demean. And I'll probably laugh again. But I'm moving on. It's been a laugh mate. Literally. :-)

Back to vegan eating and the fertiliser issue, that is an interesting question. Was discussing the issue of peak phosphorous with a mate yesterday. This fella reckons we'll see a push to harvest human waste to extract fertilisers soon. The infrastructure is all there to collect it, just need to convert the waste into a resource.

Interesting conversation but that might be the ethical way our for vegans?

There's an ethical can of worms there Benski.

If it went down that path maybe there'd be a cross section of vegans who refuse to eat vegetables grown and fertelised with human waste from meat eaters?

How would you seperate the two? Hopefully not with your fingers:)

Oh gees. I didn't think that thru fully!

'Doctors have no expertise in nutrition or exercise... neither do I... fact... therefore I assert that following my advice to follow the advice of doctors regarding exercise and nutrition will be successful'

That's what you said professing benzki, and are still confirming. It is comical, not quite as funny as that 'scientific', observing with out perceiving... lecture... but, its getting there.

'Good morning doc swillnot... not to be confused with professing swillnut, I have been referred to you to get a training and nutrition program... by my uni lecturer professing benski.'

'What!!!'... turns screen away so patient can't see it... mumbles fuck this... frantically starts googling... 'what does he know about exercise and nutrition???'

'Stuff all doc swillnot... he said you don't either, but that I should listen to you and I'll be right... should I do clean and jerks doc... should I do me rows first... with a supine grip...'

'We use Jiff for cleaning the surgery son... and try columns instead of those rows...'

'How many reps and sets doc... swillnot'

'The reps will be in later... order 3 sets...'

'What about me diet doc... swillnot...'

'Mummble mummble...what about ya fuck'n diet dick'ed... errr here get the girl at the desk to print this, its the latest scientific information that we learn about... its based on proven guidelines... again... and again... and'

'http://adventure.howstuffworks.com/bermuda-triangle.htm'

'I think that's enough for today son... now get your card out and see the girl on the way out... here, here's a free fridge magnet...'

'Thanks doc swillnot... hey doc can you show me how to do those columns...'

'Just do them properly son... on an empty stomach... do them properly now... mummble mummmble ... fuck 'orf'

'Excuse me doctor swillnot, there's another patient wanting exercise and nutrition advice... shall I...'

'Not today nurse ... I'm busy for the rest of the year too... in future... refer them to that uni lecturer... professing benzki... the bright spark that observes without perceiving'

I really have to agree with Uppy here.

Present with high blood pressure and the first thing docs will do is get you on blood thinners. Not talk about diet and exercise.

I think the medical profession, by omission and possibly by the medical establishments way too close relationship with the drug companies is part of the problem at the moment.
Not all, and not always but it's definitely a big problem.

zenagain wrote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9e8TV5O8HHQ

Joel Fitz lurvs it too!!! The 'prick'.

Hahaha! Uplift your first paragraph is quoting yourself not me. hilarious. I didn't read the rest because it's getting pitiful now.

Ha, poor prof swillnot, forever the swillnutta... the bright lights got ya again... so hard to admit that's what you are sayin'... I don't blame ya but... that 'observing without perceiving' lecture was bad... ok, pitifull enough!!!???...

I gotta go train people... again!!!...!!!

FR, that's a different point and one I don't completely disagree with. My simple point is that following the advice to eat a healthy diet that matches your energy needs and doesn't involve fast food etc won't leave you obese.

As for the actions of a given doctor, well we can't know across all docs but certainly they're remit is to cure the symptom. That's about all they do. Some do it well (the doc I've been seeing for a few things over the years is embedded in a holistic practice so he thinks that way), others do it poorly. Lots of reasons party training I'm sure, partly philosophy, partly that they've gotta see the next patient and Medicare only pays for 10 minutes or whatever.

To be fair to the docs though, tell someone with an unhealthy lifestyle to get fit and eat better or take a pill and carry on, 9 times out of 10 the patient will choose the pill and not give up the burgers and fries. That's on the patient. Pretty easy to find out a healthy lifestyle these days.

Ok uplift last time, for your benefit I'll quote your quote of yourself and show you where our disagreement is. Apparently you aren't able to see it.

"Doctors have no expertise in nutrition or exercise... neither do I... fact... therefore I assert that following my advice to follow the advice of doctors regarding exercise and nutrition will be successful"

That's not quite what I said and if you think it is, then it's clear you're arguing against a point I'm not making. I'll use your summary but change the words to reflect what I think. So this is me now, not you paraphrasing me.

"Doctors have limited expertise in nutrition or exercise and they are aware of it. I also have limited expertise (I've never taught a government accredited course for example ;-)). However i reckon that a person who follows the advice of doctors regarding exercise and nutrition will not be obese."

If "not being obese" matches your definition of "being successful" then yes that's what I'm saying. But something tells me success means more than that to you. But that's it. That's the difference here. Not that big a deal and not that controversial a statement. Because I don't hear docs suggesting we live on fast food.

Anyway happy days mate. Enjoy your training. Hope today is more purposeful than yesterday.

Just one point on personal responsibility.

It's easy from a highly educated middle class perspective to lay the blame on the individual- after all, I know better, I know how to eat healthy why can't they- seems perfect logic.

Problem is, in an obesogenic environment where almost everything is packed with extra sugar, processed, high calorie etc etc, where marketing is relentless and often targeted at the less well off and children it becomes much harder for people who don't have the knowledge and critical thinking skills you take for granted to plot a healthy course in an increasingly unhealthy landscape. That's relentless marketing 24/7, decisions that need to be made every day, kids pestering the shitt out of you, little Johhny's friend has this why can't I .......oh for fucks sake shut up, here have your fizzy drink and sugar laden muesli bar for lunch.

Personal responsibility is increasingly becoming a tool for the food companies to justify massive profits at the expense of public health.

Absolutely agree with you there freeride. It's a major society wide issue with multiple causes. And the marketing of "health" foods particularly low fat stuff borders on unethical. Food deserts are starting to be considered in public health, regardless of your choice of diet, fresh food is less available in poorer neighborhoods than fast food is.

But i don't think we can pin that on the medical community, even the dodgy old food pyramid said to avoid fast food and the high sugar content stuff.

Yeah, I wasn't pinning that on the medical community, just making a broader point.

The doctor might give the low income lady from Logan a nice little pamphlet saying avoid certain foods but when they are being bombarded 24/7 with other messages, and even think they are making healthy choices then it's kind of moot, because the marketing messages avalanche the healthier message.

@uplift,

do you have any thoughts on the Maffetone training methods, the approach seems sensible to me in respect of recovery and injury prevention especially as you age while (hopefully) making gains with fitness and wellbeing, but I would be interested in your considered thoughts.

A friend recently told me about Dr Maffetone and it seems without knowing it I was following many of his methods both on training and diet.

http://philmaffetone.com

Look forward to your reply.

eat bugs !!
this chick is making a " killing" selling high protein powder to gyms....
protein with zero fat !

http://www.ediblebugshop.com.au/g/1203934/nutrition-environment.html

benski, it is not a "persecution complex" that old uppsydaisy has, it is an inferiority complex.

If jealous old mick was even half as good as he thinks he is, he wouldn't be stuck in PL being a personal trainer for overweight, middle aged women.

"Mummmble Mummmmble", now that's the best impersonation of uppsydaisy I've ever seen in writing.

I gotta go laugh my head off ..... again!! !!

Stok wrote:

indo-dreaming wrote:

How do they feel about fruit & vegetables that have been fertilised with fertilisers that contain animal by products….

Now this is interesting - I didn't know about this to be honest, and I don't know how prevalent it is. Any recommended reading on this? Or how did you find out about it?

I guess really though it comes back to the line, where do you draw it etc. I did mention before that yes there's an ethical dilemma here, but I believe it's better to draw a line and do what you can, rather than doing nothing at all.

And yes it's challenging being vegan as per the point you raised - but this is applicable to many walks of life - not just veganism. It's like surfers who try to care about sustainability and the environment, but wear neoprene wetsuits (I'm buying a yulex next!), drive km's to the coast or fly to indo or whatever, and eat lots of meat.

Or - it's like surfers who moan about how much the hate crowds - but then realise they are the crowd!

I actually just thought it up myself, but after a google online I'm off course not the first to think about this subject.

http://www.treehugger.com/green-food/how-can-vegetarians-avoid-fish-bloo...

Don't bees need more local bee keepers to support their populations, what's the ethical sandwich with that one?

benski, you forgot, heres how things work on swellnet....

1. you ask a legitimate question on a forum
2. totally unrelated, uplift replies with something about his man juice (er hormones), large man quads, or a photos of him surfing blax from eons ago.
3. everyone jerks off over uplifts responses
4. you acknowledge your a lesser being and bow to his lordship
5. those with half a brain try to make sense what happened

the order sometimes varies, but the format stays the same.

Lifty- your obviously not getting the respect you deserve.

Maybe you should post your references again.

Don't forget the one from Geraldton Video Ezy / Gym equipment supplies.

maybe we are lucky to have the option of foods in australia and our bodies will tell us if that food/drug is good for us ,and i love soy milk and honey in my(black tea)

"Doctors have limited expertise in nutrition or exercise and they are aware of it. I also have limited expertise (I've never taught a government accredited course for example ;-)). However i reckon that a person who follows the advice of doctors regarding exercise and nutrition will not be obese."

'Expertise: expert skill or knowledge in a particular field.'

'Expert: a person who is very knowledgeable about or skillful in a particular area.'

That's what you state that you said benzki. As I said. I would however be more truthfull, blunt. You, and the doctors have no, in fact zero 'expertise' in nutrition or exercise. Limited sounds better though. As honestly idiotic as it is to even state it. A limited expert. Are you serious? Of course you are the guy that said 'humans observe without perceiving'... stupid.

F... Fail... no point going any further when the very basis of your assertion, your 'work', is ridiculous.

But lets, because it gets worse. Due to that stated by you and to me obvious total, zero lack of expertise, it means that despite ranting about people making poor personal choices, which includes obese, extremely unfit, and unhealthy, or injured doctors that I have trained, and helped in exercise and nutrition, you also severely misunderstand what the term government 'accreditation' really adds up to or means.

Lets substitute:

"Panel beaters have limited (stupid comment... F...) expertise in building and designing engines or repairing them and they are aware of it. I also have limited (stupid comment... F...) expertise in in building and designing engines or repairing them (I've never taught a government accredited course for example, or built and designed or repaired an engine... ;-)). Therefore, based on this lack of expertise, I reckon that a person who follows the advice of panel beaters with no expertise regarding building and designing engines or repairing them, will have no trouble with their engines. ."

Hilarious.

Doctors as you admitted, used and advocated the old food triangle, then were forced to admit it was useless... as the numerous 'epidemics' exploded around them. It, their recommendation of it, in fact contributed to several 'epidemics'. When they did that, as you said 'yore' ago, they were then left with absolutely nothing to offer, as they still were and still are in the position of having no expertise in exercise and nutrition, which as you say they have always been aware of.

The 'new', 'fresh' triangle does much to lead people to consume too much sugar. To have an endless flow of sugar in their blood stream. Which leads to many things. So the epidemics burgeon. Your lack of expertise isn't very usefull in understanding that.

'A limited expert'....are you 'almost certain'... benski... did you 'observe that without perceiving it'?

F...

expert: "A person with more data than judgment."

turnip wrote:

expert: "A person with more data than judgment."

' those with half a brain try to make sense what happened'

You are being very generous there turnitup... turnitup, its more in the region of a quarter of a brain... good luck mmmaaaayyyyteeee... aaaaayyyeeeee!!!

turnip wrote:

benski, you forgot, heres how things work on swellnet....

1. you ask a legitimate question on a forum
2. totally unrelated, uplift replies with something about his man juice (er hormones), large man quads, or a photos of him surfing blax from eons ago.
3. everyone jerks off over uplifts responses
4. you acknowledge your a lesser being and bow to his lordship
5. those with half a brain try to make sense what happened

the order sometimes varies, but the format stays the same.

Haha, well that could be true.

But hey, there's always someone on here, with tenfold knowledge than yourself, IMO.....

It's good and respect goes along way;)

Good 5 times distilled organic Vodka, is that fine Stok?

i think we need to rename this thread to "Surfers, Vegans, and Panel Beaters".

turnip wrote:

i finks wiv me quarta orv a brane vat we nead two renayme vis fred two "Surfeese, Veegins, n Pannl Beeters".

Swillnuttin.

wellymon wrote:

turnip wrote:

benski, you forgot, heres how things work on swellnet....

1. you ask a legitimate question on a forum
2. totally unrelated, uplift replies with something about his man juice (er hormones), large man quads, or a photos of him surfing blax from eons ago.
3. everyone jerks off over uplifts responses
4. you acknowledge your a lesser being and bow to his lordship
5. those with half a brain try to make sense what happened

the order sometimes varies, but the format stays the same.

Haha, well that could be true.

But hey, there's always someone on here, with tenfold knowledge than yourself, IMO.....

It's good and respect goes along way;)

Good 5 times distilled organic Vodka, is that fine Stok?

wellymon, but first and foremost.....

well, good luck to ya uplift. just remember its never too late to seek help.

uplift ... can you scroll up a bit, I would like your views on maffetone

Gidday floyd. I've been flat out this morning training people, so sorry for not replying. I had a quick look, and I like this straight away.

“Primum non nocere.”
In English, this Latin phrase means “ first do no harm.”

There's a zillion ways to train floyd, but this should be the first criteria. However, it doesn't take long in the field to see the opposite situation is prevalent. So when I talk to people about, or assess their exercise methods, its the first thing I look at. I'm lucky, 45 years is a long time, long enough to see long term effects of different eating styles and exercise methods. Unfortunately in the fitness world some blatant liars have a lot of sway. Think lance. Arny and co. I've met drugged up legends that can lie their guts out without batting an eyelid. Or literally crippled trainers that rave on about functionality. Ditto trainers that are constantly under the surgeons knife and blabber about functional movement patterns. In the same vein it makes me laugh about the boxing craze, all good, definitely some insane, athletic boxers, but you better be doing something to balance all that, like in every sport. Shoulders, elbows, wrists, fingers... I like that the guy you are asking about is aware of all that.

Running is a tough one for me. I see so much damage, so much aging that it can cause. But, that's partly because many runners don't grasp recovery also. And generally, people are confused about hormones. Hormones rule, end of story, so bottom line, you had better learn what your training and eating and your life is doing to your hormones. And there's zillions of them. They trigger everything.

I like the nutrition ideas. To me floyd, the whole thing looks very thorough, really looking at health and fitness from every angle.

'We humans have gone astray; we’ve forgotten how to be optimally healthy. And now we have to get back to our instincts and intuition. This is one of the great benefits of this journey.'

I like the above from that site, because I learned early on that a persons health and fitness is dictated by their thoughts, well their behaviour. If that doesn't really change, all attempts to change will inevitably fail. So the above is really interesting to me. Because its where training clients ends up. Working with behaviour. I get results, long term results, so I am not afraid to say that I have genuine expertise. It takes time to change people's behaviour. Its a massive topic. The crux of my comments re benzki. Most people honestly have no idea why they think things. And the power of conditioning.

'We humans have gone astray; we’ve forgotten how to be optimally healthy. And now we have to get back to our instincts and intuition. This is one of the great benefits of this journey.'

Go to the kids first school assembly. The classic age,when every cell, every piece of the kids being is saying move... test... climb... jump... run... wrestle... throw... kick... sleep... eat... drink... piss... shit... ad infinitum. And blab, laugh, mix, mingle, listen, meet, etc.

'Sit still... stop fidgeting... be quiet... look at the teacher... give me that note... '

Then, more levels, even deeper still...

'No, stay awake... no you can wait till recess... no toilet break is later...'

By the time they are adults every vital instinct and intuition has been crushed out of most. Most have learned to steadfastly ignore them. More cogs in the engine, more bricks in the wall... let them truckers roll!!! Something is telling me not to eat that, smoke that, drink that... easy to ignore, lots of conditioning there! Epidemics. Cash cows.

Language is so conditioned.

I have limited expertise... I have no expertise

Traditional Indigenous Australians were raped and murdered, and their little children were butchered... British invaders, our ancestors, raped and murdered Traditional Indigenous Australians and butchered their children

Australia Day... Invasion Day

accredited... non accredited

Its caught your attention floyd, and it looks worth trying, no radical danger signs so go for it. That's really the best way to tell if something works for you. I will say this though, so many people pass judgement on exercise and nutrition methods when they haven't honestly put much into them. So give it your all. Value yourself very highly.

that's a fine post, comrade.

Yet another new classification has popped up...

veggans

http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2016/feb/03/can-you-be-vegan-eat...

upskirt, what a fine post....lets recap.

- starts with pointless uplift ego boosting dribble
- a short comment about the actual question in point
- more pointless dribble ego boosting drivel

at least u didnt talk about ur twiggy stick legs......5 tonne an hour.......bwwwwaaaaahhhhhhhaaaaaa. too much time looking at yourself in the mirror i assume.

expert: "A person with more data than judgment."

hey uplift,

thanks for your thoughts/comments ... I have been following a lot of what malletone suggests without knowing about him for many years now ..... discovering him has aided my focus, I'll read up some more and perhaps adopt and learn some of his principles but I'm confident in what I have intuitively found to work for me over the years........ its really interesting what you said about intuition, because I have been a firm believer in intuition for most of my life .... its a very powerful word for me.

Recovery and balance are also powerful words. For me those words lead to breathe, the beautiful and most gentle yet immensely powerful breathe ... controller of the body and mind, only ever going where the breathe comfortably allows.

Your last words are kind, thank you. Its a very hard thing to (re)learn kindness to yourself for the reasons and more that you highlight.

.

uplift....turns out there is help for ya....see below

Stok! Onya for raising this thread. It's got crew thinking about the choices they make and that's a good thing. Lotsa pages... I skipped a few in the middle so this may have been well and truly covered off, but it seems the animal welfare / animal ethics perspective hasn't got much of a guernsey in the discussion, and for me and many others this is such an important consideration.

All I would like for others to consider is that the consumption of any creature be it a cow, fish, bird, octopus, whatever will inherently be causing a degree of suffering or stress to that creature, and most likely its community. The degree of suffering will vary, indeed we will never truly understand the impacts on creatures, but from my perspective whatever we as individuals can do to minimise that will go some small way to lifting the overall thoughtfulness and kindness of us humans as a species. And don't we need some more of that!

To those who feel they need to eat meat for health and performance.. Well that really isn't the case for the vast majority of people (probably all people actually!) unless you happen to be a world-rated athlete and even then there's plenty of them including Olympians that happily dispell that one.

There's plenty more to say In support of vegetarianism but all I'll leave you with for those that are thinking about giving it a try, is to do just that! See how you go for just 1 week. It's really weird the first couple days you think yer gonna starve both at home and at the bakery or when going out but guess what... You don't! It's piss-easy. And then ya just start feeling good, and a little bit happier about your place in the world. True!

[quote=greeb
All I would like for others to consider is that the consumption of any creature be it a cow, fish, bird, octopus, whatever will inherently be causing a degree of suffering or stress to that creature, and most likely its community. The degree of suffering will vary, indeed we will never truly understand the impacts on creatures, but from my perspective whatever we as individuals can do to minimise that will go some small way to lifting the overall thoughtfulness and kindness of us humans as a species. And don't we need some more of that!

Interesting Greeb. Does that count for non-consumption as well? Travelling down the country road, whilst passing someone going the other way, like a bat out of hell. Only to find a Mother Rock Wallaby, with joey sprawled out in the middle of the road, both rear legs hanging on by a thread/hair I should say. Some lady who had before pulled up help out, she obviously couldn't and was stressing.
So out of my, 'thoughtfulness and kindness of us humans as a species' I quickly picked up the Wallaby, ran across the road and swung it's head a couple of times into a solid tree. Not instant death, but a lot better than grovelling in the middle of the road for another how long?

I never consumed it, just chucked it into the bushes,with my, 'thoughtfulness and kindness of us humans as a species' deciding it was better left, for Yowie food.

Not sure where I'm going with this one Greeb, but if you're getting all vege, hippy hugging about,' causing a degree of suffering or stress to that creature, and most likely its community'???
We all die, whether from suffering, stress etc.
Embrace it Greeb , it's just like hugging a tree, or IMO thanking the spirit world, for being able to kill some nice food and to have it on the family table;)

Spent 2 years vegetarian after a few heart moments to keep my cholesterol down, it was hard work eating out as 95% of these healthy cafes use some really deadly oils in their cooking so it was very hard to order a meal.
Eventually I gave up and that first lamb roast was a true Homer Simpson moment in my life and guess what, my cholesterol went down and I was less confused.:-D

greebs wrote:

Stok! Onya for raising this thread. It's got crew thinking about the choices they make and that's a good thing. Lotsa pages... I skipped a few in the middle so this may have been well and truly covered off, but it seems the animal welfare / animal ethics perspective hasn't got much of a guernsey in the discussion, and for me and many others this is such an important consideration.

All I would like for others to consider is that the consumption of any creature be it a cow, fish, bird, octopus, whatever will inherently be causing a degree of suffering or stress to that creature, and most likely its community. The degree of suffering will vary, indeed we will never truly understand the impacts on creatures, but from my perspective whatever we as individuals can do to minimise that will go some small way to lifting the overall thoughtfulness and kindness of us humans as a species. And don't we need some more of that!

To those who feel they need to eat meat for health and performance.. Well that really isn't the case for the vast majority of people (probably all people actually!) unless you happen to be a world-rated athlete and even then there's plenty of them including Olympians that happily dispell that one.

There's plenty more to say In support of vegetarianism but all I'll leave you with for those that are thinking about giving it a try, is to do just that! See how you go for just 1 week. It's really weird the first couple days you think yer gonna starve both at home and at the bakery or when going out but guess what... You don't! It's piss-easy. And then ya just start feeling good, and a little bit happier about your place in the world. True!

Is that your dog in the pic?….what do you feed it vegetable scraps?

Next we will be trying to stop animals from hunting and killing because they kill and eat each other.

BTW. you should read all the thread, there is some good points in there not just for but also making other points.

'Yet another new classification has popped up'

'those with half a brain'

Drifting in the footsteps of the greatest, the most zomasing movie ever made... a new classification of super hero has burst onto the scene... Cap'n swillnut. . .

'Cap'n swillnut what are your powers... your legs look kinda skinny... and ... the glutes...???!!!'

'I got half a farkin' brain fer starters, sew's I don't need no farkin' legs n glutes, an proteen eeevea... well any farkin' muscals... plus I got limited expertease... I gort limited unlimited shit... but I know heapsa shit!!! fur certain ayyyeee... well... almost... I'm a limited expert about everyfing... I am...!!!' An' I gort a fuck'n 'ead like a turnip... an when me 'alf a brain starts frobbin... an' anyway, I cum from swillnut land... so's I got heapsa powers from vere I 'ave...'

'What about your hands cap'n swillnut... they look kinda... well... kinda... soft???'

Naaar, I yuse theese little plastic web fings... and anyway I gorta a farkin' 'eavy bag, farking scone crack'n, bone mashing, fist smashing farkin' reflex farking jab 'orn me!!! You betta watch it, you betta respec' me n stuff... corse I loses control orv it an stuff!!! An if you don't watch ouwt, I'll observe ya wivout perceav'n ya... I can do shit like vat too... corse I lecktcha abowt it... wiv me limited expertise... I'm a expert too... well.. I'm limiturd wun... well... aaaarrr ffffaaaarrrkkk ooorrrffff... or I'll faaaarkin yoger ya too...'

'Cap'n swillnut... you look kinda small...'

'Naaarrr... I gorta highchair too... an a fark'n big squwark orn me too!!! Plus I no guys... privvvy cunts... ol' cunts aaaaaaayyyyeeeee mmmmmaaaaayyyyteee... n privut ex cop detectives n stuff...'

'Is it true that you can surf without even going in the water Cap'n swillnut????!!!...'

'Yeah aaaaayyyeeee when did ya 'ear abowt vat!!! AAAAYYYYEEEE MMMMAAAAAYYYYYTTTEEEE... yeah... I farkin ripped n charged faaaaarkin blax like vat I dun... it worze farkin so eazy fur me aaaaaayyyeeee... I uses faaaaarkin zenntensity too... vats 'ow I carefully stitched up joel fitz... fuck'n prick... eeeze a farkin kook anyway... no fuck'n respec aaaaayyyeee mmmmaaaaayyyteeee.... I gort me swillnut drones onta him... I got vem too... eaps orv em!!!'

'Aye... I juzz figgard ouwt... yuse is fuck'n Carl... ow's it going... ow wuz vem rocks ayyeee!!!'

'Errr, no I'm not Carl cap'n swillnut... what rocks?'

'Faaaarrkkk me 'alf brane is throbbin now... I gorta a weakness... farkin truuuffe aaaayyeee... I can't stand ver faaaarkkkin truuuuuffeeee aaayyyeee... fuck'n shit drives me crazy!!!'

'What about lifty cap'n swillnut...???'

Naaaaarrrrrr fuckkkkn nnnnnnnaaaarrrrrr!!!!! I don't even care abowt 'Im ayyeeee... I faaaarkkkinn got 'im eaps ayeeeee... yeeaaaahhh ffaaaarkkk... yeh... I reeeeeeeeellly, reeeeellyy, reeeeeeellllly, reeeeelly reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeelllllllllllyyyyyyyyy gort 'im... fffaaaaaaarrrkkkk... wot did ya farkin bring 'Im up for... 'eeeeese not even farkin big... I don't even reed anyfing e says ayyye!!!...??? An... an... an... an I can so farkin' well charj farkin blax... its juz pizzweek shit anyway... like joel farkin fitz aaayyee!!! Resssppeecccc!!!

'Faaaarkkk now me half a fuck'n brane is frobbin eaps... GGGGGGAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRYYYYYYYYYY... MMMMMMMMMMMMMMUUUUUUUUUUUUUUMMMMMMMMMMMYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY.............................'

Hi welly. Putting the wallaby out of its misery definitely the best thing to do! I've had to mercillilessly club an emu with a shovel myself after hitting it (me hitting it) on an outback track and do other such stuff. Hope my post doesn't come across as "holier than tho", a complete tree huggin hippy that wasn't the intent. I'm horribly impactful on the environment including other creatures same as all of us, simply by being alive and human (and consuming products, resources etc). Trillions of animals, bugs etc have no doubt been destroyed by each of us just in going about the routine of living and consuming, I'm a realist on that front!

Having said that I will never again embrace the concept of eating an animal only because (a) I know it's not necessary and (b) its part of an industry that causes suffering that largely wouldn't exist if we all didn't (never gonna happen in our lifetime). Can't be arsed with (c) and onwards but you get my drift.

Anyway I'm not gonna preach, most of my mates eat whatever they want and I don't bug them so won't do that to the good folks here. Mind you some are moving towards veggo I suspect, and no-one including me would've thought I would have done so. Seemes like a past life.

Hi indo.... Yep that's me muttly and no he doesn't live on vegetable scraps although he absolutely loves carrots. I'm not even sure if he could live on a vegetarian diet, I suspect not. The crucial difference is he isnt aware of sophisticated arguments around animal welfare / ethics / ecology whereas we are and we have the ability to choose.

Anyway all cool, very interesting perspectives. Ride on.