Gun drawn Shot fired at Macaronis ?
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Such a horrible mix.
Greedy resort fuelled by foreign investors (that take way to many guest) using the locals to do their dirty work to enforce exclusivity based on laws that are very questionable.
Greedy charter boats often fuelled by foreign investors who flock to Macca's like seagulls to chips crowding the lineup but giving nothing (or very very little) back to the Mentawai people or economy.
All over a great wave and a consistent wave, but a wave that doesn't handle more than 15 guys and barely any other options for 30km south or North.
IMO best thing to happen at Macca's will be the day the locals set up a budget accommodation option as it crowded anyway they might as well get in on it and get a piece of the pie.
Personally surprised its taken so long, i guess though its in part because the resort is in with the village (and they do, do good things for them) but it will happen one day, even if some local sets something up in the next bay south at Betamoga a village that as far as i know doesn't get help/funding from the resort, even though Macca's point is actually the boundary line of the two districts.
Going to be interesting when it does happen.
I've never understood the white man's guilt as far as charter boats operating in an area such as the Ments .
Sure the punters might not interact with the locals, but ... Who gives a fuck ?
This isn't a cultural tour and it's not like the locals are missing out by being denied the opportunity of witnessing a dozen grown men reduced to what can often eventuate into a ten day bucks party mentality.
The only issue I have a problem with is the charter boats fishing / spearing on the reefs that the locals rely on for life sustaining food and or business , whilst for the tourists it's a photo opportunity next to the catch after a bit of recreational fun.
It's not like the boys are fishing for food in our floating pleasure palaces.
The Maccas resort situation ?
A more violent person than myself needs to meet the Aussie owner in the street back in his home country and bestow the gift of physical retribution upon his corrupt and despicable person.
Having said that, if someone was to pay a third party to discharge a firearm in my general direction in an attempt to prevent me from surfing a wave that is based in a country approximately 5000 kms from his home ( Tasmania , I believe ) ....then I might just be violent enough to display how much I don't appreciate his avaricious pursuit of profit through the misappropriation of resources he has no claim over whatsoever.
If you know what I mean.
Yeah i guess you could see it that way but to me its a resource thing waves are a potential resource for the Mentawai people and one of the few resources they have to make money from but in general they are not seeing a benefit from the use of their waves.
But i do think this is changing, well in the Playgrounds,Telescope & Ht,s area and its going to be interesting in the next 10 years how things pan out, personally i can't see how charter boats are going to have a future, well not at the numbers they are now, IMO about now is the time to ban them from the Playgrounds and Telescope area and look at cutting numbers to a manageable level for the rest of the Mentawai's.(below twenty boats) Just like we limit commercial fishing licences.
I think lots of people would see things differently if they went ashore in some places and saw the huge contrast between the people who often live in wooden shacks with barely nothing in many cases not even toilets and look out and see in some cases luxury boats that must be worth hundreds of thousands if not millions of $USD, I've personally seen, heard and felt the anger frustration, helplessness and jealously from the locals almost everyday in their front yards they see thee charter boats come and go and us bule playing in the waves but they don't have the funds or don't know how to benefit from the industry, its kind of a real dick tease for them, so close but so far.
BTW. I actually know Mark (the guy who started Maccas) quite well yes he is from Tassie but only gets back about a week or two a year and other than that lives in Indo getting close to 20 years now, speaks the best Bahasa Indonesia of anyone I've ever met even better the some Indonesians.
He is actually a really good guy and a true water man if not surfing he is either fishing or spearfishing, although I'm totally against what he is doing with the resort and this situation (and BTW I've told him what i think) and i can totally understand people in how they feel about him, I'm sure id feel the same way if he wasn't a mate.
Anyway heres the resorts take on it http://www.macaronisresort.com/clearing-the-air-on-recent-incident-at-ma...
blowin, one of the resources the locals have is the waves not just the fish.
Hopefully they are getting a good cut , and employment for the pillaging surfers who just come to surf and get pissed .
looks lik ethe macoronis crew have a pretty good act , and there are rules and regulations that are in place to protect the area and the people who have the money to pay for a trip to the camp.
get your facts straight before you follow Udo's conspiracy rants and sensationalizing an incident , or maybe as udo knows the huey so well he could contact them for a comment!
I don't agree that I'm a "pillaging" surfer when I'm there.
I've done two boat trips now, and both times I've saved my ass off for a year to be able to afford it. Worked weekends, not spent money on other stuff and basically just worked my ring off to get there. Im kinda with blowin on this one.
I don't feel guilty when I'm there. If I was a travelling pro surfer getting paid to be there it might be a different story, but not when I know how hard I've worked to be able to enjoy those two weeks.
So you boys are obviously out with pitchforks and the flaming torches every time the QE2 pulls up at the local port ?
Or ready for revolution when the Chinese whales are putting $500,000 on black at the Jupiters roulette wheel while your kids are working the deep fried at kidsploitation rates at the local drive thru ?
Same same.....but different.
I thought we were supposed to be envious of the noble savage / primitive utopia deal the Ments locals are living and we're supposed to feel like bastards if they're not allowed to live off jungle produce alone.
A lot of the waves the locals don't surf .
The waves are a fully sustainable resource that is not being degraded whatsoever by a boatload of tourists playing amongst .
Maybe the land camps with their eggy expat owners should fuck off and let the locals sort their own shit out.
I'm not up to speed with the Macaroni's resort act - I'm about to read their side of the story.
But correct me if I'm wrong here - Australian surfer starts surf camp, employs thugs to monopolise the joint.
Correct , incorrect ?
First world problems,I wonder how the villagers feel about that a surfer spends more on a surf trip to their waves , than they will see in a lifetime ,its all relative to the Mentawis wealth Vs those hard working surfers who save up for costly trips ?
Or alternatively, you could consider that in the First world, people may spend 80 percent of their waking hours for three quarters of their lives to buy a house whereas the Ments crew are born into ownership of their beautiful islands.
I don't think they are very good comparisons…
Its not just about the gap between rich and poor
You have to remember were talking about people who have very poor living standards, die or preventable disease and things like child birth complications generally don't live to a very old age and high mortality rate among young children.
And this is there resource being sold by others, its fine for now as its a never ending resource but i think there has to come a time when the Mentawai government says enough is enough you want to surf here, you have to stay somewhere that contributes to our economy and employes our people, if the government were smart they would slowly buy up half a dozen charter boats and tell the others to fuck off and the salad days are over.
Your last comparison is kind of true in a round about way, but there is more to it than that, fact is boats bring basically no positives to anyone other than operators and guest and a few business in Padang (fuel/food etc) but the resort does and has improved living standards in the nearby village so if the resort goes under then the locals also lose help and income and quite a few families lose an income no resort no jobs the resort may also buy fresh produce from the villages etc or basic supplies if they run out also.
So the motivation for the locals is to help the resort and keep them operating so its not like they need to employee thugs as such the locals aren't silly and its also in the governments interest to also keep the resort operating as they pay tax locally hence why they probably have the support of the police also.
Just a quick note for anyone that has been on a charter boat and stopped of at a port town: Port towns in Mentawais like Muara Siberut, Tua Pajet, Sibaian, Sikakap are very different to remote villages like Silabu and Betamoga near maccas etc there is heaps more money in the port towns and the surrounding areas than remote Mentawai villages and a large proportion of the people in port towns are originally from mainland Sumatra while most people in more remote villages are full blood Mentawai people many have not even been out of the Mentawai's.
Similar shit to last year, except it was knives and not guns. Collect the cash and then return to cut the anchor rope. I'm led to believe that it wasn't the locals though and it would make sense. Everyone wants a piece of the pie.
I'm not all over the issues here, but this is thesis from Dr. Jess Ponting is worth reading if you are interested in the surf tourism gig in the Ments. A bit old, but some good insights from all players, and though he isn't an Indonesianist is he has been researching the Ments and other surfing hotspots for a few decades.
Page 288,thanks for the light read dandan:)
A mate of mine was doing some work over there with the government to do with plants about 25 years ago, anyways they were planning then for 2 mooring at each break to save the reefs and general pollution.
Given the activity and the minimal effect on the environment, it's fair to see a managed access to resources such as maccas. This to me indicates the need and the demand. Ultimately such 'playgrounds' will be developed back where the demand comes from, as in Snowdinai. As to the effect on the Mentawi people and culture, that would happen regardless of the break in due course.
Blowin wrote:Or alternatively, you could consider that in the First world, people may spend 80 percent of their waking hours for three quarters of their lives to buy a house whereas the Ments crew are born into ownership of their beautiful islands.
So if as you say they have ownership of the islands , maybe they should charge surfers a per wave commission , whats in it for them??
Do they own the islands or the Indonesian Govt ??
Now you're getting there Sharkman.
Notice how a profiteering Tasmanian isn't factoring into your thinking anymore ?
The Islands are governed by the Mentawai government the thing you have to remember is the Mentawai government and people want resorts and other land based accommodation, because they provide tax/fees locally, provide employment, provide money into the local economy through buying fuel locally and other purchases and help develop the Islands (maybe not what we want but its what they want things like roads linking villages, electricity etc).
Charter boats on the other hand don't give back anything pretty much zilch and shouldn't have a say on anything in the Mentawais as they are not in anyway a part of the Mentawais they are just visiting boats from Padang using a Mentawai resource (waves) for profit..
Think about it this way its not much different in many areas of Indo charter boat can't just turn up at G-Land or Nias or Lakey peak or anywhere in Bali if they did they would just get kicked out and moved on, one day it WILL be the same in the Mentawai's UNLESS the loss of income and benefit to the local Mentawai government/economy/people can be compensated, such as a licensing fee scheme that covers those losses ideally with numbers capped and reduced to sustainable levels.
The important thing you have to remember in this case is the government wants Macaronis resort to be successful not go bust (it would go bust because no one wants to stay there because its crowded with a dozen boats everyday), and off course the local village want the resort to be successful because they provide jobs and other benefits to the community.
The recent factor here in regards to crowd pressure on Maccas if the bouy system was not in place is crowds at maccas would be much larger than ever because now many charter boats avoid the Playgrounds to Telescope region because of the large number of resorts/surf camps and budget accommodation there, hence most boats now go straight out to HT,s /Lances left then head south where there is only Maccas resort and one new camp down at Thunders and as far as i know no budget accommodation (as yet).
seems like the best thing for the Mentawi people is to get resorts built so that there is a direct benefit for them in developing their islands , as ID says.
Maybe the days of the Charter boats are coming to an end , I wonder about the relationship between the governing Mentawi Govt and Indonesian Govt and how they work together , still seems like there is a strong level of corruption with the Indo's , are the Metawaiins similar?
sharkman wrote:seems like the best thing for the Mentawi people is to get resorts built so that there is a direct benefit for them in developing their islands
I'm all for it, but where does a local Mentawai fella with big dreams but small income (> $2 a day) get the capital for a resort? Leave alone the skill sets required to build and run one.
Its actually possible its a step step process but i guess there is a fine line between what people call resorts, surf camps, losmens.
Just look at E-bay first time i stayed there it was basically just staying with coconut farmers, one room wooden shack bamboo mat straight onto the timber, food cooked on a wood fire, no electricity/genrator so kerosine lamps only at night, wash up the creek in the spring, crap in the jungle and a warm bintang if you brought it.
A few years latter i went back and one or two had built heaps better buildings with a few rooms, some communal toilets got built and one had a generator and bathroom and cold bintang.
Now many years latter the place is like a surfing village with losmens everywhere not all that different to the umas at Kandui in style, they have kitchens, bathrooms, there own toilets electricity at night and you can even get cold bintang.
(BTW. Seeing all the infos in the last two edition of the Lonely planet Indo guide I'm not exactly blowing secrets here for those that don't know)
There is other examples of locals that are not rich just ordinary entrepreneur Mentawai people that have started what you could pass of as surf camps/resorts, for example a local young guy Ade and his family started taking surfers in long boats from where the ferry arrives at Muara Siberut to E-bay and built up a business and good name from that, a few years ago they built a fairly rustic style surf camp but are charging decent dollars for them compared to other Indonesian run places and they have a fairly good reputation, the guy has even scored himself a pretty good looking Brazzo chick…Im fairly sure they had a little bit of a helping hand from western friends but its still very much local run and owned and a bit of a rag to riches story for them. http://www.theshadowmentawai.com
Then there is Yantos place, one of the rare Mentawai guys to have worked on charter boats for years hence has good english and good surf knowledge and clued on, maybe he has had investors? or a helping hand, but I'm fairly sure its another local owned and run place that is bordering on being a surf resort and they charge a price similar to foreign owned places. http://www.yantosplace.com
Thats just two examples there is one or two more.
Oh and there is two more budget but till nice places owned and run by I believe the Mentawai government/Tourism minister (Ibu Desti)
https://www.airbnb.com.au/rooms/6733060?s=3
So it is developing.
IMO Im sorry to say but i think Mentawai people are also very corrupt but i guess that is generalising.
sharkman wrote:seems like the best thing for the Mentawi people is to get resorts built so that there is a direct benefit for them in developing their islands , as ID says.
Autonomy and self-determination are important, and I definitely agree with you. I'm also interested in the long term and have spent some years looking at this in depth. That's where things get sticky.
Islands in general tend to put all their eggs in a single basket, right across the world. Tasmania for years acted as if cutting down trees was going to make them billionaires, and the forestry industry there is almost dead now and its collapse have left many people unemployed. Tourism, for all its talk as being sustainable (which is a generally baseless statement - current standards of tourism wreak ecological havoc on small islands), is such a fragile beast. All it takes is for a few bad seasons, a terrorist attack, a major natural disaster or perceptions of danger to sneak in and a strong industry and can become a struggling one. In the aftermath of the 2002 bombings in Bali, the Ubud tourism market fell by about 80% and took years to return to a level that could support vast employment.
The risk in all of that is that when new industries come in, particularly when it involves foreign currency and comparatively high wages, people abandon their traditional vocations. It has happened in Bali, where hundreds of young women now sit around in boutiques all day on their phones, often not selling anything for days at a time and now wouldn't even contemplate a day in the fields. It happened in Savu, where almost all the women abandoned the traditional weaving that was once the backbone of a family income in favor of seaweed harvesting. The men left the lontar palms in droves, also in favor of the seaweed. The price of seaweed has dropped by almost 75% in the last five years, but now a great swathe of the population has forgotten how to make dyes, how to weave, and how to successfully and sustainably tap the lontar palm for it's nectar... It is dire straits in Savu right now, to say the least.
It happens too in the surfing world. A friend in Java decided to not raise any goats two years ago as he had built a homestay catering to guests and had a good first season. The income he would make from raising a goat and selling it at market would generally be enough to send his two kids to school and money left over to pay off any outstanding debts, but he had such a good run with his homestay he decided he didn't need to. Last year saw many other locals open homestays and competition for guests was fierce. Despite there being an enormous increase in the number of surfers in the town, he didn't make anywhere near as much money as he did the year before. His kids are only going to school as a passing surfer gave him the cash - hopefully something that doesn't become the norm, as charity is even less reliable than tourism.
I'm not making a value judgement, but rather stating something that has been observed on islands and small communities around the world. Put all your eggs in one basket, particularly a lucrative one, and the skills and traditions that have sustained communities for centuries disappear quickly. Should that basket disappear, it's difficult for a community to bring those skills back.
Great posts Dan and ID.
Totally agree. Thoughtful and insightful.
the theory of capitalism is that some win and others lose but the consumer always (allegedly) comes out on top. The Mentawais seem to be already past the turning point and are being accelerated from a simple island trader existence into the global marketplace, whether the locals like it or not. As such, the winners and losers will become more apparent and local laws and regulations will be developed, tested & manipulated by marketplace influences that never had context before. This is the underlying case here.
IMO Im sorry to say but i think Mentawai people are also very corrupt but i guess that is generalising.
more corrupt than other surf areas?
probably, I don't think it's a reflection of the mentawai people though, it's an outcome of big money, few people, and a wild west mentality, from locals and bules.
there seem to be many kinds of 'local police' in the mentawais, that don't seem to be tied down with the formalities of uniforms etc. the whole industry appears pretty grubby, and the bules have created it
sypkan wrote:IMO Im sorry to say but i think Mentawai people are also very corrupt but i guess that is generalising. more corrupt than other surf areas? probably, I don't think it's a reflection of the mentawai people though, it's an outcome of big money, few people, and a wild west mentality, from locals and bules.
I reckon ID's claim of corruption is more general than even that. It's a human response to seek out more and it's only that the West has institutions in place to reign in corruption that we don't see as much of it here.
IMO the belief that we're more 'honest' is incorrect and doesn't take into account the parliamentary system, seperation of powers, and rule of law that we inherited from Britain and which in combination stops us from acting the same.
dandandan wrote:I'm not making a value judgement, but rather stating something that has been observed on islands and small communities around the world. Put all your eggs in one basket, particularly a lucrative one, and the skills and traditions that have sustained communities for centuries disappear quickly. Should that basket disappear, it's difficult for a community to bring those skills back.
Straya, anyone?
Some great insights above.
Corruption is minimised through combining carrots and sticks.
Comfortable remuneration is the carrot. Accountability and the rule of law are the stick.
Indonesia is a lot more than Mentawais, and I would trust ID and DD to relate the two, but have a look at
http://www.transparency.org/cpi2014/results
Australia ranked 11th (best) out of 175 for "perception of corruption" in 2014, and has slipped a bit during the reign of mad Tony and his offshore gulags.
Indonesia ranked 107 out of 175, slightly worse than Mexico, but way ahead of last placed Somalia.
The carrot and stick analogy is great - I'll put that one in the memory bank!
Corruption became a much bigger deal after 1998 and decentralization, and is much harder to control now - especially in the provinces. In Suharto's time corruption was contained (at least to a degree) to the decision makers in Jakarta and provincial capitals. Now every mayor and his dog has the power to make decisions and the thus the ability to join the corruption game.
The desire to extract wealth at the expense of others exists everywhere, though it seems to be particularly extreme in Indonesia. Where this relates to surfing is that tourism operators (of any nationality) do not need to participate in it. The KPK and local civil society organizations are growing stronger all the time, and it is common for victims to take their fight to the world via social media to gain traction. It's not perfect, but business owners who choose to participate in the legal channels strengthen that system. Those that choose to deal in corruption further entrench it.
Agree dandandan, my experience from doing business in Jakarta is that corruption is heavily discouraged by the middle class and there is lots of work being done to call wrongdoers out. Since old Beng Beng got booted, there has been significant momentum in social justice (not wholly owed to Jokowis Leadership, but perhaps moreso due to the success of the election process itself). Jakarta is transforming rapidly and it has been great to experience the spirit of change in the air.
absolutely dan is right, as are you yocal. most Indonesians want nothing to do with corruption, and it's a credit to the Indonesian character that they don't. especially if we consider the lack of institutions stunets talking about, the ridiculous disparity in currencies, and levels of development and education. one could argue the Australian character is more corrupt as we have all these advantages and we still have corruption, both hidden and open- well disguised as political donations anyway. this makes it difficult to sit through the usual barrages of calls of corruption whenever Indonesia is in the news, particularly difficult in recent events, as aussies notch up one more (unjustified) self esteem marker claiming the moral high ground becauae we're not like them.
yeh the police, army and administration are corrupt but as others have pointed out you don't have play that way, unfortunately in the mentawais the prize was too irresistible, so in a booming surf industry, in a booming world economy, a booming booming market developed, where people were willing to do whatever it takes, but were too inpatient to do it right. there was so much money sloshing around unfortunately the prices and pay offs were worked out in dollar values rather than local currency. which creates some real ugly disparity in the islands
jokowi has been very brave taking on corruption, I would argue building on a good start from SBY, yeh he may have lost momentum but he initiated a decent change for Indonesia.
unfortunately the big money corruption is so pervasive in the mentawais the place is fucked, and will probably fall behind the rest of indo in the long run. and the bules are to blame....not those 'corrupt indonesians'
could get ugly if this wave resource thing doesn't work out.
Lots of westerners think ever Indo cop is corrupt and will take a bribe it might be true for most or many but there is actually Indo cops who hate corruption and like many Indonesians don't want it in their country or be a part of it because end of the day they know it only makes the country weaker.
There is also a factor where sometimes westerners think they can just pay there way out of everything or are above the law because they generally have money, some Indonesians see this as arrogance and really don't like it.
Who knows Sooley from the Huey offering a bribe to the Indo cop might have pissed the cop off even more after he refused to move on especially if done in front of other Indo cops or villagers.
didn't mean to suggest all indo cops are corrupt, even those karen bonella books show that not to be the case at all, people get a real weird perspective when they see what the bali cops are up to. many people in public service are there for the right reasons.
this attitude of thinking you can pay your way out of everything, and the arrogance of it, pisses many off, and rightly so, not least because aarrogance is not cool in Indonesia. while ee are conditioned to appear confident and cocky, Indonesiana are conditioned to be meek and mild, I know what I'd rather be surrounded by.
I'd like to know if it was a real cop, or a self proclaimed local sheriff, makes a big difference. I'm actually amazed it's taken rhis long for shit to hit the fan. I was lucky enough to get a couple of mornings at macaronis before the heavies cleared the boats out. the heavies were anything but, incredibly polite and patient, but as a result the boats cleared out at a pace that makes a union go slow look hyperactive. their tolerance was amazing, as every boat was doing their dammedest to hang around those waves as long as possible. prerty funny scenes with the potential to turn bad real quick
Speaking of westerners and corruption, perfect example of the problem talked about above and totally related to the original topic. (from Huey charter boats Face Book page)
This just in from Captain Lee on his Maccas experience today.
"Was a perfect example today, locals came out, wanted us to leave (which they openly admitted was due to the request from the camp) we said no offered a bribe they were cool then a coppa comes out, tells us leave immediately and openly admitted the maccas camp (think they )have rights to the wave and are employing him to get rid of us, I didn't see a gun but he was getting angry when we wanted more time so we packed up got out pax in and left anyway to miss getting a shot fired near us or cause an issue,,,,, Macaronis camp congratulations you've destroyed he most amazing left hander in the ments, memories surfing that wave great without 4 scavengers on the back deck swooping on beers and money and anything free, the days of buying crays or mud cabs from the old local guy and having a friendly surf with a crowd have gone and YOU,,, Maccas camp are responsible. I hope the camp fails in time and the moorings are dragged to the depths . Maccas camp this morning you ruined 10 people's dream."
Ha ha BTW. heard it all now, macca's might be ruining their business model but maccas was ruined a long long time ago, it was sure ruined the times i surfed maccas with anywhere between 2 to 8 boats, it did my head in thinking I'm in the middle of nowhere surfing with crowds.
This is a very simple argument. Obey the rules.
Da skipper of that boat was way out of line and
he should get a new job if he can't obey rules put
in place to control pollution from boats. All their shit is dumped
Into the bay at Maccas, control crowd inundation and protect the reef
with no anchouring permitted. The facts are that Indonesian people
are generally friends with us all but if you break there rules they can
become very Volatile. The skipper should not have put his guests at risk
and in doing so created a situation where an Indonesian
policeman pulled his gun out in frustration. To the skipper, what the f#@$
were you thinking? There were so many waves around
that day but you had to push the envelope. To Maccas Resort, you should
distance yourself from the clearing of the lineup. Your guests think they have
the right to tell people to leave the water, they don't and nor do you. All negotiations, and
discussion should be CAPTAIN with local authority. But if you just obey the rule of NO ANCHOR!!
All will be cool and there will be no shitfight, no guns.
Hmm WTF is going on ...exclusive wave rights...shot fired ?