Alternative surfboard construction. (who's doing it? and how do your rate there boards?)
Nice informative post Scotty.
stealth 6'4 epoxy auction end price $305, got me fucked how they can do it. $$$
udo wrote:stealth 6'4 epoxy auction end price $305, got me fucked how they can do it. $$$
Dont know, might be cheap but I personally wouldn't buy one, kinda look cheap and i don't think its a good buying boards that are that cheap or rip offs, a mate who is an old shaper from the Goldie has closed down because he just cant make enough money these days, because of undercutting in price and the influx of cheap china boards.
That might seem a contradiction from someone who rides firewires boards made in Thailand, but i think the big difference is there boards sell from $700-$920 or so hence are not undercutting local shapers, not to mention they sponsor surfers and have many shapers/designers that make money from the designs/shapes they provide, Nev, Dann mann, Tommo, Luke short, Matt Biolos.
They make Firewires in Thailand because its cheaper, and to undercut the price of having them made by Australians. Its common practise now across the board, despite most people, especially surfers with experience in Asia, being fully aware of desperate foreign workers in a corrupt system being exploited. A massive self created, self perpetuated flaw in our system of living. Not at all necessary, or needed, just a product of uncontrolled greed. If not greed, then stupidity. The mind is very flexible and inventive though, and can easily justify and explain it.
indo-dreaming wrote:[
That might seem a contradiction from someone who rides firewires boards made in Thailand, but i think the big difference is there boards sell from $700-$920 or so hence are not undercutting local shapers, not to mention they sponsor surfers and have many shapers/designers that make money from the designs/shapes they provide, Nev, Dann mann, Tommo, Luke short, Matt Biolos.
Indo, to put it as polity as I can, that is extremely flawed logic. :-)))
I've been riding a Diverse dynocore for about a year here in WA and in Indo, got it to have an all rounder that's less likely to snap on remote trips, but I've hardly ridden anything else since I got it. I've never ridden any other epoxy boards so can only really compare it to a similar PU. It's a 28litre 6'0" quad with a cork top which Dave claimed dampens the chattering effect. It's definitely very light and strong, and about 15% more buoyant than a PU - it paddles like my 6'8" and did feel a bit skatey on waves at first; you really notice that you're sitting higher in the water. I got used to it pretty quickly though, and with largish fins in it's handled solid 6ft G-land and Desert Point beautifully, especially when the waves are clean.
I've surfed it in beachies a fair bit too, and It does seem like the work Dave has put into flex patterns shows some results, the board has a decent amount of flex and feels responsive in snaps and tight arcs. You can definitely lay rail once you've felt out how to bottom turn it properly.
Happy customer all in all. Think Dave may have relocated operations to Bali recently..
udo wrote:Tonka was your josh dowling a custom order ? first negative I have heard re joshs shapes.
Yeh, custom order. Too much foam and too flat a rocker. Went back to my local shaper.
uplift wrote:They make Firewires in Thailand because its cheaper, and to undercut the price of having them made by Australians. Its common practise now across the board, despite most people, especially surfers with experience in Asia, being fully aware of desperate foreign workers in a corrupt system being exploited. A massive self created, self perpetuated flaw in our system of living. Not at all necessary, or needed, just a product of uncontrolled greed. If not greed, then stupidity. The mind is very flexible and inventive though, and can easily justify and explain it.
Yeah, I believe they actually started making them in oz originally but the cost was to much, thats the thing when you stray from the standard PU construction and start messing around with new construction techniques that are more labour insensitive and higher material cost, you either need to charge twice as much or take it offshore like everything these days its just not economical to produce things in Australia, including wetsuits, fins, leg ropes, deck grip, wax, surf clothes, sticker etc.
True there is exploitation of people in Asia, but majority of people who work in Asia are not being exploited, labour in Asia is cheap because its a whole different economy, they don't earn much but almost everything is super cheap, wages are roughly 10% of Australia, but so is rents or real estate, or rates, electricity, food, are also roughly 10% the only things that are expensive or same price are things that are imported generally luxury items.
i know first hand as my wife is indonesian, i have worked and lived in indonesia, have family and plenty of friends in Indonesia at all levels of society, its all kind of relative.
And they say Thailand, China, Vietnam is cheaper again to produce.
shaun wrote:indo-dreaming wrote:[
That might seem a contradiction from someone who rides firewires boards made in Thailand, but i think the big difference is there boards sell from $700-$920 or so hence are not undercutting local shapers, not to mention they sponsor surfers and have many shapers/designers that make money from the designs/shapes they provide, Nev, Dann mann, Tommo, Luke short, Matt Biolos.
Indo, to put it as polity as I can, that is extremely flawed logic. :-)))
Okay explain why its flawed?...
Gidday indo-dreaming, are you saying that all the workers removed from their poverty stricken families, living squashed in roller door fronted sheds out the back of Kuta/Legian are stoked? That they could afford to live much better, but just don't choose to? That all the people who used to live along the cliffs to Ulu's, where all the resorts and mansions are, just willingly live in sheds instead, but could afford to buy their land back? Rich, corrupt Indonesians cash in even more on their fellow, poverty stricken labour force, because now the west is providing an ever burgeoning market, cash. My wife is Asian also, and I lived there also, and the rich minority, and corrupt government, exploit and mock poverty stricken workers on a wholesale scale, and allow foreign investors a long lead to do as they please, only restricted by the money available.
But, maybe you are right, pu boards aren't heaps cheaper also, your board builder old mate is lucky and stoked, and so are the majority of the ridiculously low paid overseas labour force. Firewires for all, all is good, the beat goes on.
Well indo, besides thinking it's great that boards are being imported at the cost of Australian jobs, you also think it is cool that when you pay more for this board it is because a pro surfer is endorsing it(but not necessarily liking it) The logic is flawed cause it's fucken moronic.
If there so good why doesn't Taj still ride them even after his sponsorship ended? Probably cause he rarely rode them when he was getting paid too.
Murray Bourton shapes his boards, keeping in mind longevity, with diagonal glassing and good use of carbon wrap on his PU boards. I'm an average surfer and not harsh on my boards therefore I'm very happy with the durability of his PU boards and don't see a need to change to other construction materials. When the board starts looking a little shabby it is always a good excuse to order new one and sell the old one. Change over price is around $400 which is not bad for a minimum of 12 months surfing.
He also uses other materials but have not had any experience with these. Any comments by anyone using these materials shaped by Muzza would be appreciated.
http://www.bourtonshapes.com/presenting-the-scarper/
http://www.bourtonshapes.com/fire-in-the-hole/
shaun wrote:Well indo, besides thinking it's great that boards are being imported at the cost of Australian jobs, you also think it is cool that when you pay more for this board it is because a pro surfer is endorsing it(but not necessarily liking it) The logic is flawed cause it's fucken moronic.
If there so good why doesn't Taj still ride them even after his sponsorship ended? Probably cause he rarely rode them when he was getting paid too.
Well i think we did pretty good it took to the second page before the haters came out.
Look each to there own, but i don't ride boards because some pros do, and i definitely don't think there is any cool factor, my point about the pricing was that low board prices can have a negative effect on other board builders when margins become low and board builders are force to compete on price, while boards priced higher dont cause price wars but to a degree could possibly help to lift what we as surfers expect or are willing to pay for a board .
Personally i don't see any real advantage for pros to ride firewires or any other more durable constructed boards there not like you and me who must pay full price for boards hence durability for us is a big advantage, for a pro durability is not a huge factor, that said i think its a bit delusional to think a pro surfer is going to ride a board label/boards that they don't like or don't feel work for them, like Michel Bourez and Filipe Toledo (ranked 12 and 15)
Regarding Taj, i dont follow pro surfing all that much and have no idea how often Taj rode his FW,s but i have read and seen photos of him riding them since his sponsorship ended.
Anyway lets move on, this is a discussion that could go on and on and is pointless, you ride what works for you and ill ride what works for me, this thread isn't about where boards are made or just firewires its about alternative board construction.
Indo, I'm not a hater cause I don't agree with you and say so.
Just because it is glassed to look like a firewire doesn't mean it is a firewire.
I've never paid full price for a board in my life and very few of the people I surf with have either.
@ Shaun How have you never paid full price for a board?
AAhhh.....................raku, I could roll out the old standard, go and see you local shaper, but that's been said to many times.
Let's say you want the big name shaper Warner, Rusty, Burton, Anderson, Rip Curl whatever. Instead of searching for the best deal online, there are these places called surf shops, this may be the first time that some of you young ones have heard of these places. It's not an online shop, it has a street address, walk into that shop and get chatting to the owner / salesperson ask for a better deal, you will most likely get a few $ off they don't want to see you go out the door empty handed. Then eventually you'll need another one, go back to the same shop. Bugger me, he gave you a bit more off , got a cheap cover and a leggie thrown in. Dang!!! you broke the board on your third surf, shit happens. Gee wasn't that bloke at the surfshop good to you, showed a bit of sympathy and got you a replacement at close to trade price, and whilst you was looking at the wetties he said he could knock a $100 off , bet you couldn't build a relationship like that with an online store, what is more and there is more raku, if any of the bought items from that store are defective you walk in present the item and it will most likely be replaced on the spot. No paying for return postage and endless emails cause they are ignoring you. The shop owner has buying power if you buy online you have none.
When I was younger the saying went, "real surfers never pay full price".
I could order a Firewire from 3 different shops today and get around $150 knocked off, cause I have been buying off of them for more than 20 years, one them over 35
Thanks for your words of wisdom Shaun. Maybe I should contact you or Morris when I need a new board!
When I was younger the saying was unreal surfers don't pay a cent! For the rest of us we seek out the best deal possible based on our circumstances.
Racoon, you asked me a question and I answered it, I was just assuming that you were a youngster and had to spell it out for you.
"When I was younger the saying was unreal surfers don't pay a cent! For the rest of us we seek out the best deal possible based on our circumstances."
If that is the case , well how come you have not figured out in all these years how to wrangle a deal on a new board. No point coming to see me or Morris we don't sell surfboards(cept on ebay sometimes if the opportunity arises at a secluded surf spot with an unattended car).
anyone no about?
Shaun,
The world has changed mate. There are ‘bricks and mortar’ surf stores who are changing with the times and those that are not.
Some of the ones that are deliver their best price possible to their entire customer base on boards, wetties - whatever stock they carry. Others might continue by just discounting for loyal customers, long time customers or favoured customers and what-have-you or running ‘sales’ at prescribed times of the year.
Personally, my preference is not to have to wrangle, not to get better prices than some other punter just because I have been shopping at a place longer or have a better relationship with the store / staff than somebody else. That seems an out-dated way of retailing.
Recently a local surf store dropped wetsuit prices to a much cheaper level than previously; something sustainable for them and almost matching overseas pricing. This led to increased custom and has now extended to boards and other stock. Sure no longer can the known long time customer expect a discount, loyalty card bonus or a tailpad and leggie thrown in – but thing is, nobody cares, not me who has been shopping there for 20+ years - or anyone else, as everyone is getting the same reasonable price for the goods. And they are building goodwill with the whole community rather than the odd customer here and there.
And online doesn’t have to mean overseas and/or hassles. My long time experience with buying boards from an Aussie shaper in a different state has been nothing short of excellent. Great custom boards Aus made, communicate with them however you want online, phone etc., manufactured quickly, various construction types available, shipped quickly and at my door well, well inside the timeframe any other local shaper has ever managed. Any issues? They fix it. Any customer ,one off or otherwise, can expect the same level of service with pricing fair for the goods and same for everyone– no wrangling needed.
Sorry to jump on a soapbox indo-dreaming. Will keep posts related to Alternate surfboard construction topic for here on out.
Speaking of which - a couple of people mentioned in this thread having foot-well's 'shaped' into their boards as the decks don't dent. Seems like a good idea as once the footwell's develop in a board - for me - they begin to feel more comfortable. Not sure I'd like a deck that stayed flat and didn't develop foot-well's.
Also, I have no experience with XTR blanks. I have spoken to a couple of shapers about them and researched Swaylocks and a couple of other design based websites re the blanks. Has anyone ridden a board with shaped an XTR blank? The plus seems to be performance, durability and weight. However, the con sounds like they boards/blank can delaminate due to gas trying to escape from the blank through the glass. Interested to hear any experience with these board types.
Thanks.
Scotty, I'm not actually sure if you were agreeing or disagreeing with my stance, maybe somewhere in the middle.
Yeah "any issues, they fix it". You forgot to mention "on return of item customers responsibility to pay freight charges".
I had a friend get a board online from a boardmaker on the GC, got a couple of dings in transit, choice was pay for freight(both ways) and will send another one or we will pay for a local repairer to fix it. Great deal hey, paid full price for a board with dings already in it, or pay another $80 freight.
Buying from a shop the board never would have left the store until A) it was replaced or B) dings were fixed and price discounted. Just call me old fashioned.
scotty123456 wrote:Shaun,
Also, I have no experience with XTR blanks. I have spoken to a couple of shapers about them and researched Swaylocks and a couple of other design based websites re the blanks. Has anyone ridden a board with shaped an XTR blank? The plus seems to be performance, durability and weight. However, the con sounds like they boards/blank can delaminate due to gas trying to escape from the blank through the glass. Interested to hear any experience with these board types.
Thanks.
I've two boards in XTR at the moment. Personally, I find the feel of the boards to be more akin to a PU board than, say, EPS. Both have strong glassing (6x4x6, I think) but are still noticeably lighter than a comparable PU with standard glassing. No delam problems as of yet. I figure so long as you don't leave them in the car on a stinking hot summer's day, it should be fine.
Construction starts with the core, PU, XTR, EPS and XPS whatever your preference ... has to be good quality. Then you have to decide whats good for you, some people say they will never go away from PU/poly resin.. but then wonder why its only lasted 6mths.
Same PU blank glassed in epoxy resin will last longer in performance and durability (think about it this way.. what resin is used in every other construction apart from surfboards: F1 cars, 18ft skiffs, buildings etc.. epoxy)
cost is a factor.. but these days your typical shaper can get epoxy almost as cheap as poly (if buying in bulk) - difference in cost for them building would be $30 -$50 max and you have a 3 times better bond between glass and foam. So the reason the shaper pushes PU/POLY is for profit for them.
XTR and XPS is pretty much the same, extruded polystyrene which if handled well by the shaper... can make amazing boards.. some of my builds have been made with this and the performance of the board made me feel less of a kook! You can make the board feel more like a PU board on the wave. and the blank is pretty much waterproof so in that sense... better than PU or EPS blanks.. BUT and its a big "but" the foam shears and bond is harder to achieve between foam and glass.. so you need to go an experienced shaper who works with this material and also as mentioned above DO NOT LEAVE in the sun or in a car..
EPS is getting better everyday with the quality, if you go to the right supplier you can get good quality blanks for less than $20.
Most of the pros have an EPS board in their quiver these days ever since Dane's original "dumpster" made it more acceptable.
Some of the shapers already mentioned have the EPS process dialed so should last longer than the typical PU/POLY board but again you need to go the ones who work with it all the time to get the better lasting boards.
For myself i'm a backyardie who is trying to make the tech come to the garage.. latest board cost me under $100 to make including fin boxes
if anyone is interested to see the pics. http://www.sanded.com.au/showthread.php?101-jigsaw-surfboard-blank-exper...
Thanks or the info Tonka.
And thanks also foamhack for the info and for the link. Was pretty interesting see how you constructed that blank.
I saw a good looking board designed by US based shaper Proctor. When I checked his website it appears he is using various construction methods on his boards, including some with carbon, wood or polymer parabolic stringers.
Some interesting use of Kevlar too. Half way down the page you can view the different construction types.
http://www.proctorsurf.com/Surf-Boards/models-home
Would like to test one with the polymer stinger / rails. Cost of shipping from the US might be prohibitive though.
Another alternative construction method that has caught my eye is that employed by 'lib tech'. Check it out here:
http://www.libtechwaterboarding.com/technology/
Has anyone seen a Libtech close up in Oz? Would love to know how basalt fibres look? also the coremat they are using is a 1- 2mm cant get that version in oz (the honeycomb foam) ?
does anyone know the cost of these boards ?
Been living in cali for the past 3 years and been a user of Hydroflex technology with Matt over at Mayhem/LOST.
Used the apex natural feel boards. Which they start with your normal PU blank (which i love and can never replace it) then inject expoy resin into the pu blanks. (
if you want a breakdown).This gives the board the PU lively feel with the "flex/pop" (used loosely) of a EPS board. Also a lot stronger and board lasted for more than 1 season which is unlike most "PU" i have had.
I don't like the feel of EPS boards due to their floatation "above" the water rather than "in" the water. I have tried firewire and local Huntington Beach CA shaper Pesce Surfboards.
Hands down the best construction for your buck! I know Hydroflex have a fair few USA shapers on their glassing charts. Hears of DHD also being an option in the near future over there. I really wish they would bring this technology to OZ.
In saying all this.. I find a lot of people don't let their boards 'cure'. In saying that speaking with DHD and Matt a lot of the pro guys will get their boards shaped in Cali (winter oz, summer cali) due to the factor of the board being able to cure stronger. Letting a fresh new custom sit in a warmer environment for a month + lets the glass really bond with the blank and giving it an extra feel. End of the day unless your getting cheap nasty blanks and glassing a board shouldn't be dinging up after a few surfs unless your new or surfing 8ft pipe
Karboload EPS boards are the best ive ridden so far and ive tried fire wires, scores, furureflex to name a few. Karboloads are fast, drivey and so responsive. he was making SCores with Sel for a while and they looked nice too, i think they dropped that technology to concentrate on giving this a real go
http://nickblairshapes.blogspot.com.au/2013/12/karboload-epoxy-technolog...
......would that be as in Luis, YNWA and all that Suarez7?
Yew blind boy 20 in the back of the ole onion net suarez, Luis and Ronaldo for Ballen D'or :)
Back to subject of new tech my last 4 board have been eps and are lasting a lot longer alltho had a FireWire snap 2nd surf, but all the others going strong yew. I do ride pu gun 6ft plus tho
So many people hate Asian made surfboards and whatnot but what about making other products in Asia?
I have some ideas i really want to put money into, had quotes done here up the road at a quality injection moulding plastic factory, $10 000 just for them to cut the parts for the CNC machine, then $3 a piece of product made.
Id hope to sell a set of 20 pieces for around $300 minimum but patent alone is $10 000 as well.
In Thailand, china or preferably Indonesia it wont cost 1/3 of that price for production. I would be cutting the local guy up the road out of the picture but people only seem to care about surfboard shapers.
Personally i think Australian land prices, rent prices and production prices are a rip off. Hence the production, labour costs.
Am i an asshole for wanting to do this in indo?
a) could look after business as well live in a country i actually want to live in. And B) surf the waves i want to surf regularly, and c) Help out local people suffering in poverty. Giving jobs to some indo friends.
What is really the asshole move?
If thats not an asshole move then why is buying thai surfboards an asshole move?
Boardshorts are made in those countries yet everyone buys them.
stunet wrote:As above, any info on Diverse Dynocores would be appreciated. What do they do differently? Upsides? Downsides? Been curious for a while.
I've a few now. Good boards. Lively under your feet. You won't crease or dent or depression it. You can fracture the glass. The core is literally waterproof though. So if you fracture the glass, keep surfing.
The core also has memory. So you do ding it with say your knee or your head like I have ... 24-48 hours later it pops back out.
The first noticeable thing you notice is the extra buoyancy. About 10% more than PU. So if you have your boards really dialled, take that into consideration and 10% more volume reduced through thickness and length.
The only negative I can give them is the bottom contours. There's something about them. Maybe I haven't gone to deep or deep enough with them yet. But in that sense I haven't yet had the pump and drive and skatey feel I like from my boards (single into a double with maybe some vee out the back fin) ...
Like my current board I'm using a lot, is just a PU -- my first in about 3 years, and you can really see the single into the double and you can feel it.
With the dynocores, all of the ones I own are very subtle things that you can feel and only see if you're concentrating. Almost flat bottomed boards. Which for my surfing preference is no bueno, they just feel a little dead under my feet unless the waves are pumping.
Nick Blair Karboloads are the ducks nuts.. i borrowed one off a mate last week when the waves were pumping. it was a performance karboload with blue rails, a 5'10". ..it was seriously sick. at north narra on a sucky head high day..fckn rocked. now i need the coin to buy one
braithy wrote:... With the dynocores, all of the ones I own are very subtle things that you can feel and only see if you're concentrating. Almost flat bottomed boards ...
Hey Braithy ... do you think this is a deliberate design thing, or is it maybe? related to a limitation of the construction method?
I think fong has same 'flattish' contours on his alternate construction boards (hope to see one in the flesh so since he's living down here now) with most of these 'sandwich' vac formed construction boards being similarly flattish.
Anyone else have an insight?
Love to see some pic's of alternate construction boards with a straight edge across the fins if there are some around without a 'flattish' contour.
Wow no woodies out there, with my surname there's no other option.
Hollow wood board, 5mm paulonia skin, ply frame, no glass, glued with epoxy,
tung oiled deck, clear urethane on the bottom, teak fin plugs.
Just ripped the leg rope dowel out Easter Saturday at Little Narra, only damage
apart from a fin chop in the rail, both fixed with a bit of 5 minute araldite,
no water leaks in 3 years, no dings, deck hasn't sunk. No stringer, nice flex.
If it hits you, you get the ding. Good floatation, heavier than a plastic board, but
the weight works with you when surfing. Next board, no urethane paint.
If you've got too much time on your hands
I recommend making one for yourself, very tactile to surf, very satisfying.
Bigtree ,pics please.
Would be interesting to ride one of those, do they feel stiff though as in flex wise or do you feel every little bit of chop or does it absorb it?
how do I put pics in here?
The frames have a 10mm gap across them to allow compression and flex, helps absorb impacts and is part of the spring. The rails have the profile and rocker routed into them then wrapped around the frames.
You can push the middle of the board with your knee giving a longitudinal flex of at least 5 cm. No idea how much it flexes in a turn, but possibly a fair bit, then the spring recoils you out of the turn.
Being a kneeboard I have borrowed from George Greenough and have a high rail and a convex profile at front, gives a fine rail which digs in for grip and also eats up chop and white water. Have a look at one of his spoons, quite different to a 'modern' board. I think the extra weight also helps with chop.
I feel badly for the business model which doesn't support Oz workers, but understand the profit motive.
When you need to come back from Indo with serious injuries to get into an Australian hospital, I hope you make it. Should you get free Medicare if you live over there and keep your profits (and taxes) there.
Think laterally about how we can rebuild local production and jobs, don't be lazy.
This is what made|makes Australia great.
groundswell wrote:So many people hate Asian made surfboards and whatnot but what about making other products in Asia?
I have some ideas i really want to put money into, had quotes done here up the road at a quality injection moulding plastic factory, $10 000 just for them to cut the parts for the CNC machine, then $3 a piece of product made.
Id hope to sell a set of 20 pieces for around $300 minimum but patent alone is $10 000 as well.In Thailand, china or preferably Indonesia it wont cost 1/3 of that price for production. I would be cutting the local guy up the road out of the picture but people only seem to care about surfboard shapers.
Personally i think Australian land prices, rent prices and production prices are a rip off. Hence the production, labour costs.
Am i an asshole for wanting to do this in indo?
a) could look after business as well live in a country i actually want to live in. And B) surf the waves i want to surf regularly, and c) Help out local people suffering in poverty. Giving jobs to some indo friends.
What is really the asshole move?
If thats not an asshole move then why is buying thai surfboards an asshole move?Boardshorts are made in those countries yet everyone buys them.
The new McCoy woodies are the strongest boards available.......anywhere.
Nick blair Cab saV with karboLOAD technology is so sick. i ride in Indo a lot and haven't ridden anything else since i got 2 . it is the performance karboload with the light blue rails. i haven't tried the orange rail models as don't need small wave model in Indo. i reckon would go anywhere with punchy fast wave or mush.
Dave has been developing and riding these epoxies for the past 10 years
check em out
katanasurf.com
wavewidow wrote:Dave has been developing and riding these epoxies for the past 10 years
check em out
www.katanasurf.com
Whats the latest surf fad : article in Todays SMH.
udo wrote:Whats the latest surf fad : article in Todays SMH.
http://www.smh.com.au/small-business/entrepreneur/what8217s-the-latest-s...
Good read..cheers Udo.
Lib tech look interesting http://www.lib-tech.com/surfing/
Interesting to see Lost/Mayhem have brought one out in there tech.
Damn ugly logos/decals though on there other boards.
tonka wrote:Another alternative construction method that has caught my eye is that employed by 'lib tech'. Check it out here:
http://www.libtechwaterboarding.com/technology/
:)
A mate mentioned lib tech to me recently. Check the 0:54 mark on this> tough boards!
Necro'ing this thread again because this is the first thing that pops up if you google search anything to do with 'stealth surfboards review' and I couldn't see anything at all on the internet about them. Hoping I might give anyone else who was considering buying one some info.
I just bought one of their 'Raptor' models a couple of weeks back for $350 on ebay which includes cheapo leg rope (which seems fine), the nylon-glass fcs fins and a block of wax. I was obviously a bit wary of them because they're so cheap and I couldn't find any reviews/info anywhere but eventually I just thought, "it's only $350, fuck it" and pulled the trigger.
Anyway, board looks really good. No imperfections or wonky lines. Construction just seems to be a light EPS core wrapped in carbon fibre then epoxy resin. It's probably a touch lighter than a standard PU board of the same size. They say it's closely based on the Firewire Spitfire with some alterations and the shape is true to that. My only gripe is where the leash plug is. I like to mess around with 5 fin boards and try different set ups and the plug is a touch too far forward if you're riding it as a thruster and you like to put your tail pad very far back like I do. I had to modify the tail pad a bit with a knife to get it back as far as I like it.
I've surfed it a few times as a thruster in average clean beach break from 2-5 ft and it goes great. I've surfed a few different alternate construction boards in the past and a lot of them just feel off compared to classic construction but this board is quite similar if just a tad more rigid. As you'd expect from a hybrid, it's an absolute wave machine and is really fast in small to medium waves. Got about a billion waves each session. There's more volume than a performance shortboard but it felt quite agile and loose enough to throw the tail around. Absolutely no deck depressions whatsoever yet and I managed to whack it a couple of times around the nose and tail when moving it because I'm clumsy as hell but it didn't ding or scratch at all. They claim it's twice as durable as a normal PU board and so far it seems very solid.
If anyone's interested I'll update a couple of times after it's seen a bit more use.
Im starting this topic as a reference point for board builders that are making boards that are not traditional construction, (polyurethane foam and polyester resin)
Please share board makers big or small that are doing alternative builds and your thoughts or experience with there boards.