Turnbull rolls over "again" to the ultra right

Ive got no problem with it either Sheepdog, I was just making the point there seems to be plenty of money in the system but the idealists just keep asking for more more more. I think we need to think about outcomes at some stage and focus the money better, but all anybody worries about is how much money each side can get over the other side.

Ive just spent too much time with poor people in Indo, who do so much with so little. Indo seems to lack empathy but they've got more soul than we have. I gave a homeless guy raiding bins money the other day and tried to have a chat and he was cowering like I was going to beat him, one can only imagine why. It appears he was a disabled homeless mute, tough gig in this country.

I've noticed advert's for shows like A Current Affair are all welfare cheats and bludgers lately. It seems the mainstream media lacky's are trying to set the narrative; we must despise and envy the poor(as opposed to the rich) for they have got it too easy. It's amazing, young people on the dole living on less then $200 a week and we are supposed to envy them?

I also read in one of Murdoch's rags the other day about a 'struggling' Gold Coast family who's income has dropped to $120,000 a year and they may have to sell 'one' of their investment properties!
Newsflash, earth to Murdoch, the majority of Australians earn less then $50,000 per year for fucks sake!

Oh and sheepdog, I vote Labor, in case your wondering:)

Every time I hear people in the media bemoaning the attacks on welfare recipients I think of the 6 individuals I know on the disability pension - no ones on the dole anymore, it's too much work.
So of these 6 people : 1 lives in Bali, surfing everyday , living in the house he just built there.
2 live on the coast at N NSW, don't surf but smoke bongs all day and do nothing else except fish ( poorly ) on occasion.
1 lives S NSW and never misses a session on the pokies with a durry and a beer in her hand.
2 make more money than most people I know through nefarious means and also surf and dive better than most people I know.

All are more than able to work physically. Three of these people are on pensions for mental issues which is laughable and they do laugh about this.

Not envious of them and don't despise them either as it wasn't so long ago myself and all my friends were on the dole - good times. Just saying maybe some of this worry about re qualification for the pension and the crackdown on welfare recipients is a little misguided.

Yorko, you write "I vote Labor, in case your wondering"........... Really????? I took you as a family first sorta guy like blind boy...... ;)
Yeah that's cool man.... But are you affiliated with the party? As in are you a member? If you are, are you encouraged to push the party cause, or, are you just a labor voter who does it off his own back?
And Blind boy, what about you? Are you independent, or are you "subcontracted" by a party, or a group like "getup"?

I'm a tradesman Sheepy and joined a union at 15 when I started my apprentiship. I've seen the good and bad that comes from such organisations. I joined the Labor Party two years ago as I saw the extreme media bias against Gillard/ Rudd. It pissed me off and I wanted to support them because I think many of the great things about Australian society came about from past Labor Governments' reforms.

There's no-one in the Labor Party getting told what to say on social media that I'm aware of. I say what I think, including criticising them if that's what I believe. If you read some of my past post I've expressed my frustration at some of the crap that went on with the former government.

@blowin I agree with you about DSP recipients for mental health. This should be reviewed as mental health is something that can change throughout someone's life as opposed to an incurable illness or condition. The DSP was meant to be for people with lifelong illness/ disability so for sure I think it should be reviewed. I also think you shouldn't qualify for the DSP if you choose to live overseas.

I take my hat off to you, Yorko.... Honesty is the best policy.... and I believe you.....
Blowin.... The can of worms that is the welfare system....... Where does one start..... But the bottom line is we do need a welfare system - countries that are welfare states - Australia, U.K, Sweden, Germany.....
Countries that are not welfare states - Haiti, North Korea, Sudan, Iraq....
The western countries that made it through the GFC the best were those with decent welfare systems... The poor folk still had an income.... That income was still spent at "woolies", the local pub, given to landlords etc..... The wheels didn't stop turning.... In essence, welfare is actually a form of economic stimulation. Paradoxically, it keeps a surprising number of people employed. There is a very high number of folk in our little tassie town on welfare, most of which are aged pensioners.... If there was no welfare, our local iga would close, our chemist, our cafe, etc etc.... The place would become a ghost town....
I could waffle on about how I'd "fix" welfare, but hey... Who wants to read a 1000 word essay... ;)

Abbott taking the 70th anniversary of D-Day to state (again) that "Australia is open for business" has to be one of the biggest WTF moments yet. Surely even his colleagues must think he's flipped, the lack of tact was beyond the pale.

Though admittedly it did lead to funny jokes about Abbott's new film: "Saving Private Enterprise."

And on the same topic a Tweet from John Birmingham:

"Hope the PM has time to visit Auschwitz and remind the world about the Medicare copayment."

Well that's just a stupid tweet.....

Why? It satirises the insensitivity shown by Abbott. You may not agree with the tactics, but what exactly is stupid about it?

Comparing a $7 co payment (which I strongly detest) to the systematic racist genocide of millions of jews?
What exactly does John Birmingham think he will achieve with this grossly insensitive insulting nonsensical tweet?
Abbott is on the ropes.... Last thing the left needs is nutters allowing him any room to slink his way out...
Keep it above the belt..... Attack policy with dignified and witty response .... Not crass satire.....I couldn't picture the king of political wit (Keating) using Auschwitz and medicare co payment in the same sentence....

You'd expect that sort of stuff from a 20yo uni protester, but not from a man of John's age and intellect...

Sheepdog wrote:

Comparing a $7 co payment (which I strongly detest) to the systematic racist genocide of millions of jews?

You make it sound like he was serious? 

So you're saying he wasn't "serious"? Just a "joke" about genocide? So his "tactic" is "not being serious"? More macabre by the minute.....

Assuming someone elses voice for satire. Macabre no doubt, though not nearly so macabre as having to dissect jokes.

Stu, there are jokes..... and there are jokes.... Ask "Kramer" from Seinfeld...... Ask Alexander Downer when his "the things that batter" joke cost him the leadership....
You are all over the shop, stu.... Grab a coffee, mate ;) First you republish John's comment ( a sort of proxy endorsement) ... You then describe it as a "tactic".... Then you imply it wasn't "serious"..... A non serious tactic.....Now you agree it's macabre... But not as macabre as dissecting "jokes". If you didn't want "dissection", or some may say "input", why did you post the comment?

NEWSFLASH, stu.... "Dissecting" comments and words is what politics is all about.... And twitter is a relatively new public format that has brought down more than one..... When the right, and Murdoch, get wind of this "joke", they will "dissect" it more than you could ever imagine....
"Herald sun" tomorrow - "Co payment likened to death chambers" " Survivors outraged at tweet twit!"
Just a stupid thing to say.... John should delete immediately.....

Bags not sitting next to you at a comedy show...

Birmingham's comment is barely an exaggeration. Abbott is the one already using WW2 horrors to spruik for business. And, there is no doubt that Abbott's PR people will be working out how Abbott's upcoming trip to the killing fields of France can be best used to build a narrative to sell his budget.

You just dont get it, stu..... Some things like "apish good looks", or death camps are a bit touchy for some.... ;)

No Sheepdog, YOU don't get it. For some the D-Day anniversary is a solemn occasion and not a chance to play politics. Birmingham is highlighting that.

That's right.... Abbott jumped in the gutter.... So why join him with pathetic satire???!!!!

"Nah mate, this seat is, erm, taken."

Anyway I woke up this morning and figured out who George Brandis looks like. Bang! Just like that it hit me: Gilbert from the UK art duo Gilbert and George. Shown here on the left.

They even share similar beliefs; a liberal approach to the arts and humanities counter-intuitively mixed with conservative politics. "We admire Margaret Thatcher greatly," said Gilbert and George and they weren't being ironic.

Meanwhile Brandis compares himself to Voltaire, positioning himself as the defender of the right to free speech even from people with whom he profoundly disagrees. So what then does he have to say about Julian Assange?

*crickets*

Holocaust jokes..... Gilbert and george lookalikes........ Worst comedy show ever!!!! I want my fuckn money back..... At least that one guy with the empty seat next to him is laughing ;)

You paid to get in? Maaaate, this show is free. Subsidised by the gubbamint.

"Australia is open for business"

Really, he said that? at a D Day commemoration, this is why I could not ever support Liberals, no fucking idea, always pushing their agenda, so fucking tasteless they would sell their grandmother. I think the tweet was a good comeback, I thought stunet and co. had no sense of humour deleting Blowin's posts, now Sheepdog is losing me, horses for courses I guess.

I must have had a similar life to you Blowin, occasionally living in the trees, doing the dole thing through the nineties (best years of my life!!), mates rorting welfare. It wasn't so bad being on the dole in the 90s where I lived, as there were no jobs, but now is a different matter as Australia brings in migrants to fill labour shortages. None of my mates are doing the mental health thing (which is a low scam) but plenty are pushing physical ailments for all they are worth, yeh you can't do physical labour but there are plenty of other jobs you can do, they become pension job snobs. Will Labor do anything about that?...no chance. I have also met dudes doing the mental health rort in Indo too, living the life, not cool.

C mon Sheepdog get started on welfare, it is the elephant in the room in Australian society, and this outrageous forum gives a voice. I apologise for my bluntness in these forums but this is where I get the therapy I need working in a politically correct lefty industry.

Having said that, clamping down on doleys while not winding back Howard's middle class welfare is just not necessary. Middle class welfare I love that term, bit of an oxymoron hey? Growing up in shithole half of my friends become pension rorters and the successful half have become chardonnay socialists, disgusted by Abbott's cutbacks, they have become too attached to Howard's bribe money.

sypkan wrote:

I thought stunet and co. had no sense of humour deleting Blowin's posts

No-one here touched Blowin's posts. Think he deleted them himself?

The benefit of hindsight? http://yathink.com.au/article-display/is-the-ipa-dinner-address-finally-...

http://www.crikey.com.au/2013/04/05/tony-abbott-talks-god-and-western-va...

the Abbott speech itself was/is telling...to quote PJK, "God help us!"

You gotta pay now stu..... Abbott cut the subsidy.... Don't worry. They got you on cctv ... Bills in the mail..

I thought I'd "lost" you, SK? Maaaate.... You too Stu, I want Abbott out... BIG TIME!!!!!!!! But my tactic to get him out differs to yours, that's all...... You guys like low brow comic relief.... Tit for tat...Fair enough.... that's your choice... But I don't like touching the "holocaust"..... I find it offensive.......
Many others out there will find it offensive, for different reasons to me....... It takes the spotlight off Abbott, and puts it on a tweet chasing "comedian" scraping for another 15 minutes....
I used to love "rubbery figures".... I love some of the political cartoonists - always watch insiders on ABC sunday mornings for a giggle......
But... BUT!!! When I see crap, I call it crap...... Abbott using d day - crap...... Holocaust references to highlight crap - more crap..... Crap on crap..... Abbott is a pig, and Birmingham joined him in the swill........Banal comic relief only takes the foot off the throat.... But what you both fail to realize as you use the "it's only humor" excuse re' holocaust, you open the door to Brandis... You open the door to derailing all the good work Shorten and co' are doing, by backing tasteless public tit for tat comments that could be seized upon by the right and utilized..... In essence, your angle supports "ditch the witch" campaigns (just a bit of fun), and the continuation of a sliding into the muck that current politics has become....
If I was Shortens adviser, I'd tell him to remain dignified, and to keep a big distance away from so called "social leftist comedians"..... Stick to facts, policy, and fairness.... Leave the crap to abbott, and those who like to monkey him.....
I'll get to welfare later, SK..
ps - are you guys independent bloggers like TGF and myself? Or are you a member of a party, like Yorko bravely and honorably admitted to? Blind boy? Get up?

Charlie pickering shows how to put Abbott to the sword with dignity "At first I thought 'this can't be real'...but turns out it is.What a top bloke our PM is, using D-Day diggers"

Christine Milne (not my favorite polly) - nails it -" .@TonyAbbottMHR has humiliated Australia on world stage under UNFCCC, UNHCR, World Heritage and Biodiversity Conventions and now D Day."

Sheepdog wrote:

are you guys independent bloggers like TGF and myself? Or are you a member of a party, like Yorko bravely and honorably admitted to? Blind boy? Get up?

Currently independent of any party though lean towards the left. Hasn't always been the case, at times I've been a member of Socialist Alliance and at other times held a subscription to Quadrant. I take less offence at being called a Labor voter than I do when I get called a Liberal voter.

stunet wrote:

I take less offence at being called a Labor voter than I do when I get called a Liberal voter.

Haha good way of putting things into perspective

Stu. Well I reiterate being independent... But like you lean slightly left of centre.... I suppose my "political ideology" is a mish mash of both sides.... The battle is lost, but I was, am, and will always be against the privatization of essential services..... "Their" reasoning was privatization would bring more competition and therefore lower prices......HAHAHAHA!!!! Yeah..... Right...... Wonder how that's going......
The main thing I like about the right (in theory) is simplification and promotion of small business and private enterprise....

No-one here touched Blowin's posts. Think he deleted them himself?

Wow he deletes a lot of his own posts, he must really get fired up and shock himself almost as much as he shocks the rest of us, haha fucken funny.

Sheepdog, yeh I take your point on keeping the debate about facts, but I found that tweet quite witty without stooping to the gutter. All that 'ditch the witch' stuff was a bit much, but Labor supporters came back just as hard with signs about Abbott, a bit much after complaining so hard about the Gillard signs. I just cannot stand the one eyedness, and to be honest I find the one eyed Laboradors more annoying than the right as they complain harder then resort to the same tactics.

As to affiliations with any party, I'd like to know which party I could possibly be connected to as I have bagged them all on here, except the democrats who I liked but Meg Lees fucked them up, now Ive bagged them too. I wouldn't normally have bagged Labor so much but like you I am pretty disgusted with the whole Rudd Gillard Rudd thing. 6 years lost, Shorten says concentrate on their achievements over this time, from what I can see nothing has stood the test of time, it looks like even their beloved NDIS is on the way out. It blows me away how much money was wasted bringing stuff in just to see it turn to dust.

The only politician/party I could support in the modern arena would be Nick Xenophon the rest have lost the plot and have nothing to offer, so sad. Geez even Clive Palmer is looking good, I never thought I would say that in my life, I couldn't stand the cunt before, I think it is only because he has a personal vendetta against Liberals, but he is actually starting to talk sense, when he is not being an egomaniac.

Fair enough, SK...... And you nailed it re' "labradors"...... I think that's where some of my angst comes from from re' "tweet"...... Also, it's just very dangerous to walk the "holocaust humor walk".... Alot of other ways to skin a cat without the potential of giving yourself an uppercut....
BTW - my father was one of the original founders alongside Don Chipp...... Used to have dinner at Dons place as a kid on holidays..... A great GREAT man........

I'm surprised by your comparisons of one-eyed Laborites to the rampant Tory sympathisers guys. No doubt there are those elements on both sides but if you use the mainstream media as an example I would like to hear who on the left would be at the level of say Alan Jones or Andrew Bolt? I'm talking mainstream here not obscure bloggers like John Birmingham? Name two?

Yorko, Sk and I weren't talking about "high profile""mainstream" sympathizers.... We we talking about "rank and file" behaviour on both sides.... "Rank and file" right wingers disgraced themselves outside of parliament house with their "ditch the witch" and "Bob Browns bitch" signs..... The left howled, and rightly so... Yet now many "rank and file" on the left do exactly the same.....
As far as "mainstream" goes, you are dead right about Jones.... And Ray Hadley for that matter.... However, Bolt is far more cunning, and dangerous, because..... He doesn't "fly off the handle" like Jones.....

The political discourse was lowered to gutter standards largely as a result of MSM agitators like Bolt, Hadley and Jones during the last governments tenure and many on the left have followed on by delivering it back in spades. It's unfortunate but the term "you reap what you sow" comes to mind.
I think it's counter productive and it look like Shorten and his advisers think that way too as he seems to be maintaining a dignified line, despite the Abbott government trying to tie him to those protesters such as we have seen in university campus's around the country. I hope he can maintain it.

Well... We'll agree to disagree on that one yorko.... It's called hypocrisy.... One can't say "hey! Don't do that, it's wrong!".... And then do the same under the "reap what you sow" clause..... If I was a fellow Labor member, I'd address this at the monthly meeting.... I'd push for more dignity in protest, purely to win over the 15% floating vote.......
And as for shorten's dignity, yep...... That's exactly what I wrote above, (2/6/14, 2.14pm) - "If I was Shortens adviser, I'd tell him to remain dignified, and to keep a big distance away from so called "social leftist comedians"..... Stick to facts, policy, and fairness.."

Individuals' actions within a party are just that. The actions of individuals. You are naive to think political parties have that much control over their followers. The MSM set the narrative. And people react.
My reaction was to join the Labor Party rather than wave hateful banners around. But it's easy to succumb to that line of thinking.
Tony Abbott chose to attend rallies with rightwing hate jocks and their followers and stand in front of such banners. All Bill Shorten can do is not lower himself to such levels. And in a free country political party supporters will act however they see fit.
Hopefully Shorten's actions will lead this countries politic's out of the gutter over time. But if Abbott continues to be supported and win future elections the path will be clear for future leaders. "This is the way to win government."

Yorko, as I said, I am not a member of any party.......... Now........ I didn't say I have never been a member...... I did say I turned my back on it all 10 years ago...... I do have a political pedigree..... So as far as naivety goes, you are welcome to your opinion....... I do know however, you are capable of taking the chair, and airing a point of view. If you do not wish to do so, that is your choice....
I am throwing my support behind Bill Shorten, and I hope he, his shadow cabinet, his backbench, and his rank and file members push for a more colaborated team effort in regards to dignified protest.... Individuals still may take issues into their own hands, but rank and file members throwing their weight behind dignity wont hurt the situation..... Cheers, man....

Didn't want offend you with the naive comment Sheepy. Sorry if I did.

I honestly believe the vast majority of those protesters are not Labor members, perhaps not even voters for Labor in the last election?
I think they're pissed off students, pensioners, and lower income family members. Some of whom would have voted for Abbott and feel they have been deceived and cheated by the current government.

And Tony Abbott is an international embarrassment. Did you see that US talk show clip seen by millions of American's that has now gone viral on YouTube with over a million views?
For the sake of the country just get Turnbull into the top job ASAP to try and salvage our reputation!
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1y1ez7_tony-abbott-last-week-tonight_news

Nah, mate.. just fighting the good fight...... On the same side as you.... No offence taken... Plus I do dish it out, so I should be able to take the odd left jab ;)
And yeah.... I posted that Abbott thing on my facebook...... lol........ Now that's smart humor.... :)

Floyd.... It's a setup.... The conservative think tank believe Abbott can't win the battle to sell the budget, but he can win the the battle against Turnbull. ...... It pushes the budget and Shorten off the front pages......"respite"........ Not only that, it wedges Turnbull.... But everything the conservatives touch at the mo' turns to shit, so dont be surprised if it backfires....

check this little triptych of investigative JOURNALISM (it still exists?!) and join the 'higher education shake-up' dots:

https://newmatilda.com/2014/05/21/leaked-documents-cast-doubt-abbotts-60...

https://newmatilda.com/2014/05/30/chief-liberal-fundraiser-linked-privat...

https://newmatilda.com/2014/06/05/open-business-liberal-links-keep-coming

I concur with a commenter on there:

I'm really enjoying watching news stories starting on new Matilda [or any other credible online alternative...take your pick], travelling through social media formats and finally getting into mainstream television news. This is such a refreshing change from having radio shock jocks set the agenda for our news broadcasting services. Journalism counts and we need to treasure it.

Sheepdog wrote:

Floyd.... It's a SETUP.... The conservative think tank believe Abbott can't win the battle to sell the budget, but he can win the the battle against Turnbull. ...... It pushes the budget and Shorten off the front pages......"respite"........ Not only that, it wedges Turnbull.... But everything the conservatives touch at the mo' turns to shit, so dont be surprised if it backfires....

Well, well, well, political junkies......... You read it here on swellnet first ;)
"Prime Minister Tony Abbott has hosed down speculation of a COORDINATED CAMPAIGN against Communications Minister Malcolm Turnbull"
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-06-06/pm-plays-down-idea-of-campaign-aga...

Unbelievable, TGF.............. Confirmed? For real?