Vaccinate or not
I focus wrote:Slackjawedyokel wrote:You are so wide of the point here that it’s amazing, Freeride.
I keep referring to KNOWN FALSEHOODS aka LIES that were peddled by formerly respected institutions within Australia amd around the world.
I’ll simplify again .
There was never a credible claim that the vaccines prevented transmission or infection of the virus. The vaccine was not even tested to see whether it prevented transmission or infection as it was not designed to prevent transmission or infection.
Blowin do you have a reference for those claims?
Yep
https://www.news.com.au/technology/science/human-body/pfizer-did-not-kno...
And here’s the laughably ridiculous “ Fact check “ by the ABC. It basically says about the vaccine and preventing transmission: “No one ever said it did and even though we didn’t say it there’s been a couple of completely non- empirical faux-studies that maybe, somehow align with our pretending for two years that the vaccines totally prevented transmission and infection. Which is a lie that we used to underpin entire cavalcade of lies”
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-10-21/fact-check-pfizer-admission-trans...
Fraud covered up by a trail of lies
Nice little flashback to the era when just dropping the word “Science “ was expected to exempt you from inquiry. After two years of being raised to the status of a deity , this Pfizer executive thought it was enough to be cute and say they were working at “ The speed of science “……FFS!
People like Freeride have never read the science themselves. He would never have read the clinical test results for the Pfizer vaccine that he has defended for years. He is defending the idea of the institutions into which he has placed blind faith.
The science lol if you believe that your a sucker
^^^
re. discussion above...
and an interesting develpment in 'the narrative' about vaccines and transmission... was when - after a year or so of selling the vaccine hard, as described by yokel - those in authority distinctly changed what they were saying regarding vaccines stopping transmission...
it went from the 'traditional' approach to vaccines, and those in authority selling them as actually stopping trasmission... 'stops the virus dead'
to these kind of vague claims that the vaccines stop transmission through the reduction of symptons, and therefore the spreading of the virus...
ie. less coughing and sneezing leads to less virus in the air, leading to less spreading of the virus
which is kinda true and makes sense
however this is far and away from what the public expect from vaccines and their ability to stop the spreading of disease...
I guess this was about the same time the WHO literally had to change their definition of a 'vaccine'
literally
had to...
and, it was only more knowledgable commentators that made this distinction, as the mainstream media machine continued with their hard sell
the big questions yokel is alluding to - are, who knew what and when?
the fact is, the bigwigs knew all this way early on, and they did cover up and perpetuate this fraud
there's no doubt about it
the question is why?
the cynics say money...
the santa claus believers say for public good...
and I say, it is because the cover up started way way earlier, with faucci and co. covering up a litany of sordid tales and dealings that squewed and suppressed a whole heap of shit that remains out of the general public's eye to this very day...
the censorship and narrative control was next level... with everything slowly sifting down through the various levels of authority from head honcho number one...
faucci
it's mind blowing that this cover up continues to this day
and that there are still so many piss weak scientists still not asking the right questions, or willing to engage in what scientists are supposed to do...
piss fuckng weak!
(though, I believe many are just wilfully ignorant and / or in various stages of ashsam's list above)
Thanks Blowin hadn't seen those links before but all pretty much sum up (sort of) my mate the Professors observations / opinion.
As far as transmission goes I always understood (rightly or wrongly) that it helped to prevent but wasn't an absolute as I understand is the case with all vaccinations as per the bell curve and variations across populations this is not new.
This is also the case for reactions to vaccines outside the bell curve you are in trouble inside all good again long known.
Personal experience anecdotally my mother 90 year old in care, dementia ward caught covid along with all other residents some in palliative care all vaccinated no one died this is before antivirals.
This is against the deaths in NSW's care homes before vaccinations and the overloading of medical systems in counties during the early outbreaks when the virus was at its strongest.
WA got through the early stages to vaccinations by locking the border, due to our culture (Boganism) Western Australians all cheered and carried on as usual.
While Mum was infections (early before anyone knew) I visited hugged and kissed my mother spent time with her I never caught covid, still haven't.
I was fully vaccinated.
Since then covid has gone through the ward twice medical staff have administered antivirals and again no one has died as a result I get the feeling anti vials are the go although have heard of some severe reactions to them.
I understand here in WA our experience was quite different to the East Coast (police over there were just stupid Vic never looked right) that no doubt color's my view of the pandemic.
the thing is i focus - and the same goes for old dog...
how do you know you never had covid?
remember all those cases that were 'asymptonatic'?
it's highly likely you've had it and were unaware
I know families where one person gets smashed and husband barely had a sniffle...
some people are just incredibly lucky when it comes to genetics and effects
this seems especially the case for covid
which just raises even more questions...
don't ask don't tell?
https://www.zerohedge.com/covid-19/15-us-agencies-knew-wuhan-lab-was-try...
sypkan wrote:the thing is i focus - and the same goes for old dog...
how do you know you never had covid?
remember all those cases that were 'asymptonatic'?
it's highly likely you've had it and were unaware
I know families where one person gets smashed and husband barely had a sniffle...
some people are just incredibly lucky when it comes to genetics and effects
this seems especially the case for covid
which just raises even more questions...
Possible but unlikely I die just getting the flu (man flu is a thing) plus have always tested repeatedly particularly when Mum had covid.
Asked the Professor WTF he said a percentage was in my immunity, then the vacs plays a part then there is the bit they just don't know yet.
I had to do at least one test most weeks to visit the hospitals and nursing homes when at home, always negative, come to think of it I haven't even had a sniffle since getting jabbed. If I did have it, then maybe my system shut it down quickly because it had been tipped off by the jab. I guess we will never know, just like we will never know what would have happened if about 90% of the population hadn't got vaccinated. Anyway, what I think means fuck all, I'll leave it to the experts.
I won't be getting anymore covid jabs but the ball and chain is on my back to get a flu shot because we don't want anything to spoil our trip to Bali in a few weeks time. Cheers.
old-dog wrote:I had to do at least one test most weeks to visit the hospitals and nursing homes when at home, always negative, come to think of it I haven't even had a sniffle since getting jabbed. If I did have it, then maybe my system shut it down quickly because it had been tipped off by the jab. I guess we will never know, just like we will never know what would have happened if about 90% of the population hadn't got vaccinated. Anyway, what I think means fuck all, I'll leave it to the experts.
I won't be getting anymore covid jabs but the ball and chain is on my back to get a flu shot because we don't want anything to spoil our trip to Bali in a few weeks time. Cheers.
hahahaha, a flu shot now too. fuck me.
@old dog , there’s a bad cough getting around Bali at the moment, my daughter got it and had to get some antibiotics after she developed a chest infection , some people have it for 3 weeks or more . I’ve seen plenty of tourists with a persistent cough and dengue is also on the rise . Not trying to put the mocker on you just be aware of those pesky daytime mozzies . We got a lot of rain end of march beginning of April but suns out now .
Flu vaccines prevent about 7.5 million illnesses, 3.7 million doctor visits, 105,000 hospital stays and 6,300 deaths in the US every year.
Thanks for the heads up Supa, the wife is a mozzie magnet so we have already stocked up on repellent. They don't bother me when she is around.
@ burls, I will try not to catch autism from the flu shot. Ha Ha.
AndyM wrote:Flu vaccines prevent about 7.5 million illnesses, 3.7 million doctor visits, 105,000 hospital stays and 6,300 deaths in the US every year.
Good joke Andy. You're on fire
old-dog wrote:Thanks for the heads up Supa, the wife is a mozzie magnet so we have already stocked up on repellent. They don't bother me when she is around.
@ burls, I will try not to catch autism from the flu shot. Ha Ha.
You can buy a device here that plugs into indo socket and lets of an odour that mozzies hate , I can’t smell anything but it works , costs about $3.50 , lasts a few weeks
Hey Burls The evidence in favour of vaccinations is absolutely without question.
What is it about the evidence over the last hundred years that you don’t accept?
burleigh wrote:hahahaha, a flu shot now too. fuck me.
Yeah I get one as well as per my docs advice (do have a pre existing condition) also need it to enter the nursing home to see Mum it certainly reduces illness at least for me.
Burleigh just for your further entertainment also just had the shingles vaccine :-).
Ha ha, I can hear his teeth grinding from here
I focus wrote:burleigh wrote:hahahaha, a flu shot now too. fuck me.
Yeah I get one as well as per my docs advice (do have a pre existing condition) also need it to enter the nursing home to see Mum it certainly reduces illness at least for me.
Burleigh just for your further entertainment also just had the shingles vaccine :-).
Hi I focus
How much did the shingles vax cost you?
AndyM wrote:Ha ha, I can hear his teeth grinding from here
hahahaha. is there a vaccine for that?
Accept reality?
But seriously, smallpox, measles, polio, whooping cough, flu...
There's no debate to be had about the efficacy of vaccinations.
They aren't perfect but they're a shit load better than the alternative.
And no, eating paleo isn't a cure-all.
AndyM wrote:But seriously, smallpox, measles, polio, whooping cough, flu...
There's no debate to be had about the efficacy of vaccinations.
They aren't perfect but they're a shit load better than the alternative.
And no, eating paleo isn't a cure-all.
Polio, like the vaccine derived polio you wanted people vaccinated against? Hey we’ve created a vaccine, take this, then keep taking a vaccine that stops the vaccine from killing you. Hahahaha
shingles...
became quite the problem, mid covid / post vaccines...
vaccines (and covid) trigger the immune system
shingles a result of a stressed immune system
hmmmmm...
was barely heard of pre covid
sypkan wrote:shingles...
became quite the problem, mid covid / post vaccines...
vaccines (and covid) trigger the immune system
shingles a result of a stressed immune system
hmmmmm...
was barely heard of pre covid
yep,
Right in the middle of the covid vaccine blitz, shingles was rampant.
A well known surfer on the gold coast got hammered with shingles after his first covid wack.
and this...
an interesting study that popped up way early in the piece
and got disappeared as quickly as it appeared...
https://greatgameindia.com/indian-scientists-discover-coronavirus-engine...
for cotext, most doctors agree on one thing, covid isn't a run of the mill respiratory disease...
burleigh wrote:AndyM wrote:But seriously, smallpox, measles, polio, whooping cough, flu...
There's no debate to be had about the efficacy of vaccinations.
They aren't perfect but they're a shit load better than the alternative.
And no, eating paleo isn't a cure-all.Polio, like the vaccine derived polio you wanted people vaccinated against? Hey we’ve created a vaccine, take this, then keep taking a vaccine that stops the vaccine from killing you. Hahahaha
You realise the smallpox vaccine was live?
And it wiped out smallpox?
- run of the mill respiratory diseases aren't man made ;)
Funny but the wife has 4 sisters, one is an anti vax, crystals, chemtrails etc. pseudo hippy who refused the jab and she is the only one of them who has had shingles, and really debilitating, she got it soon after she was hospitalized with covid. Go figure. The pandemic itself was very stressful for many and may have caused the extra cases too. She probably ate vegemite on toast that morning but no one is blaming that.
old-dog wrote:Funny but the wife has 4 sisters, one is an anti vax, crystals, chemtrails etc. pseudo hippy who refused the jab and she is the only one of them who has had shingles, and really debilitating, she got it soon after she was hospitalized with covid. Go figure. The pandemic itself was very stressful for many and may have caused the extra cases too. She probably ate vegemite on toast that morning but no one is blaming that.
No need to make up porky pies now doggy style.
I heard the vaccines caused sudden onset alcoholism, and a rise in netflix subs, too.
- safely and effectively ;)
No porkies here champ, she had shingles for months, ulcers in her mouth, painful unsightly, itchy rashes on her face. We were all in shock when she finally bit the bullet and got the vaccine for it. She has always thought she knew more than any doctor because she's done her own resurch. Her cure all is apple cider vinegar, which is why all her teeth have fallen out.
seeds wrote:I focus wrote:burleigh wrote:hahahaha, a flu shot now too. fuck me.
Yeah I get one as well as per my docs advice (do have a pre existing condition) also need it to enter the nursing home to see Mum it certainly reduces illness at least for me.
Burleigh just for your further entertainment also just had the shingles vaccine :-).
Hi I focus
How much did the shingles vax cost you?
Seeds I got it free from my Quack he had some dose's in the fridge it was the 2 part one shots are 3 months apart, I had the highest reaction to it of all the vaccines I have taken, arm swelled up next day felt like I had been run over by a truck for both doses.
Sypan haven't heard anything about shingles increasing I have had it as a child both my parents had shingles in their 70's Dad had one of the sores in his eye very lucky not to lose his eyesight both got hammered by it.
Can be stress related common in older populations and often serious.
old-dog wrote:I had to do at least one test most weeks to visit the hospitals and nursing homes when at home, always negative, come to think of it I haven't even had a sniffle since getting jabbed. If I did have it, then maybe my system shut it down quickly because it had been tipped off by the jab. I guess we will never know, just like we will never know what would have happened if about 90% of the population hadn't got vaccinated. Anyway, what I think means fuck all, I'll leave it to the experts.
I won't be getting anymore covid jabs but the ball and chain is on my back to get a flu shot because we don't want anything to spoil our trip to Bali in a few weeks time. Cheers.
You mean the 90% that got covid after getting vaxed and spread it around the nursing homes, while unvaxed were not allowed in? Ok.
Flu shot won't help for Bali you better not go.
Anyone that got the covid vax needs the shingles vax to stop you getting it from the covid vax.
lol
"one of the sores in his eye very lucky not to lose his eyesight"
Yep, friend got shingles (a long time pre-Covid) and nearly lost her sight.
Wonder what she'd say to people who mocked her for getting vaxxed?
A trip down memory lane:
Joe Biden fear mongering in late 2021 when it was well know that covid was low risk most of the population:
"For the unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death,”
History proves this did not happen.
By September 2020 heaps of data was available that proved covid was low risk for 98% + of the population.
Such hyperbole had many bad consequences.
Pfizer in 2021 revealing in their statement (below) of vaccine trials for children:
1. Desperation to expand market to young children who were well known by then to be very often asymptomatic (not sick) or to have mild symptoms with covid
2. How ineffective their wonder vaccine really was - two doses did not work so they went for three!
"Vaccine maker Pfizer said Friday that trials of its vaccine in children ages 2 to 5 show that it did not provide the expected immunity in kids this age, and it is adding a third dose to the regimen.
The company decided to add the third dose for all children and babies ages 6 months to 5 years after its independent outside advisers took a look at the data so far."
It showed that two child-sized doses of the Pfizer/BioNtech vaccine were not producing the expected immunity in the 2- to 5-year-olds"
There are so many similar tales to tell ...
I well remember Trump claiming credit for the vaccine roll out calling it one of the greatest miracles of the ages.
AndyM wrote:burleigh wrote:AndyM wrote:But seriously, smallpox, measles, polio, whooping cough, flu...
There's no debate to be had about the efficacy of vaccinations.
They aren't perfect but they're a shit load better than the alternative.
And no, eating paleo isn't a cure-all.Polio, like the vaccine derived polio you wanted people vaccinated against? Hey we’ve created a vaccine, take this, then keep taking a vaccine that stops the vaccine from killing you. Hahahaha
You realise the smallpox vaccine was live?
And it wiped out smallpox?
Ok, I'll fess up.
It's not the same, it's quite unlikely that polio will be fully wiped out.
Here's an honest article.
https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2023/04/10/1168141163/the-drea...
Yes, they've always known that the virus in the oral vaccine can mutate and in 2022 there were nearly 800 cases of vaccine-derived polio.
Keep in mind though that 30 years ago polio was still paralyzing hundreds of thousands of people a year.
That's 800 cases vs 100,000 + incidences of actual paralysis.
As any sensible person knows, vaxxes aren't perfect but they're a hell of a lot better than the alternative.
Burls any thoughts on the 83 deaths during the Samoa measles outbreak?
61 out of the first 70 deaths were aged four and under and all but seven were aged under 15.
I remember you saying to leave the kids alone with regards to polio in London.
Similar thoughts with Samoa?
Trump has his share of the blame but had less information to go on than Biden. You could sort of tell Trump didn't fully trust Fauci in the press conferences but was bluffed by science and fear of the early days.
Once Fauci stepped into center stage with his lockdown / vaccination mission he was hard to shift.
https://townhall.com/tipsheet/spencerbrown/2022/07/26/fauci-claims-he-di...
AndyM must work for phyzer lol
ashsam wrote:Anyone that got the covid vax needs the shingles vax to stop you getting it from the covid vax.
lol
Hahaha. This is true
I wonder what role politics plays in the anti vaccine movement these days, used to be the followers of natural remedies were anti vaccines benefiting from all those that got vaccinated.
Read the below some time ago but still relevant today
"Vaccination is considered the most successful and cost-effective medical intervention ever introduced (1). A recent publication from the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention suggests that this distinction continues to hold"
"The history of vaccines confirms that vaccines have been the medical intervention with the greatest beneficial impact on human health and longevity (3). Vaccines dramatically reduced the incidence of infectious diseases that historically killed hundreds of millions, and made a substantial contribution to life expectancy that during the last century in developed countries increased from ∼47–80 y (4)."
This part I found counterintuitive to the current narrative although pre covid.
"The bitter truth is that although vaccines keep people healthy and save money, fewer and fewer pharmaceutical companies invest in the development of new vaccines. Rather, their investment dollars are channeled disproportionately to new drug therapies in areas such as oncology, immunology, inflammation, and cardiovascular, metabolic, and neurodegenerative diseases, for which the return on investment tends to be higher and more predictable than for vaccines. "
https://www.pnas.org/doi/full/10.1073/pnas.1413559111#:~:text=Vaccines%2...(4).
ashsam wrote:AndyM must work for phyzer lol
Dead kids as collateral damage to your ideology ashsam?
I focus wrote:I wonder what role politics plays in the anti vaccine movement these days, used to be the followers of natural remedies were anti vaccines benefiting from all those that got vaccinated.
Read the below some time ago but still relevant today
"Vaccination is considered the most successful and cost-effective medical intervention ever introduced (1). A recent publication from the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention suggests that this distinction continues to hold"
"The history of vaccines confirms that vaccines have been the medical intervention with the greatest beneficial impact on human health and longevity (3). Vaccines dramatically reduced the incidence of infectious diseases that historically killed hundreds of millions, and made a substantial contribution to life expectancy that during the last century in developed countries increased from ∼47–80 y (4)."
This part I found counterintuitive to the current narrative although pre covid.
"The bitter truth is that although vaccines keep people healthy and save money, fewer and fewer pharmaceutical companies invest in the development of new vaccines. Rather, their investment dollars are channeled disproportionately to new drug therapies in areas such as oncology, immunology, inflammation, and cardiovascular, metabolic, and neurodegenerative diseases, for which the return on investment tends to be higher and more predictable than for vaccines. "
https://www.pnas.org/doi/full/10.1073/pnas.1413559111#:~:text=Vaccines%2...(4).
You can't tell these flat earthers anything.
They'll find a way to negate everything you've just said in your post above (in their own heads anyway).
In a grotesque way it's actually fascinating to see how this ideology has evolved over the years.
You must see it next level in your area AndyM.
I find it amazing and shocking.
I've probably said it before but the post-modernism/nihilism thing is so pervasive in this area, if you're not "creating your own narrative" you're just not cool.
The performative element of this is one thing but the unconscious nihilism seems even worse because there seems to be so little grounding these people.
It's like all they have left is wellness consumerism and woke psycho babble, underpinned by the standard rejection of what they see as "meta narratives" which includes science, logic and evidence.
A relative vaxxed 5 times has had Covid 5 times.
It is just not that good a "vaccine" (and would not have been called one before the definition was changed).
Deep down we all know that. Low uptake of boosters are proof.
Other vaccines are very effective.
I was a little shocked at Alan Joyce (CEO Qantas) announcement that international travelers will be required to have a covid 19 vaccination in order to travel on Qantas flights . The government wanted to have mandatory vaccination but after the bumbling of its release ( it was painful to watch the delivery of that announcement ) they withdrew the mandatory part but it seems Qantas and other business may demand a vaccination in order to use their services. I’m not anti vaccine by any means I just don’t trust this government or a vaccine that has been rushed through. A jab followed by another jab followed by yearly jabs doesn’t sit well with me as I have never had a flu shot or the flu for more than 20 years. Plus I don’t want to give this shot to my healthy 4 year old daughter. She is up to date with all her vaccinations but this covid vaccine is new and not being around for decades like the others. Tuberculosis remains the number one as far diseases go and you don’t need proof of vaccination to travel so what is going on ?