Bilge Shunter, I mean Blurt Shirter, I mean Bill Shorten.

I'd say he'll whack in a couple of new coal fired power stations to deal with electricity prices.
probably in QLD.

Thanks Stu Gittins nails it as he often can.

Gittins has nailed it, especially

"The voters’ "revealed preference" is for more personality, less debate of the tough choices we must make to secure our future in a threatening world."

Considering the state of the media, including social media, I think it's fair to say the Australians are regressing with regards to being able to handle mature policy discussions.

No wonder we're a bit of a laughing stock, especially in Europe.

Anyone who thinks the responsibility for the re-election of the most toxic government in living memory can be blamed on Labor, the media or anything other than the mind boggling greed and self-interest of LNP voters is full of shit. The buck stops with the vote and, yeh at some point it may be worth forgiving and forgetting, until then they are all Scomo's scumbags. People with so little regard for the health of their own communities, their own nation and the whole planet, that they are prepared to sacrifice them to top up their own already well stocked finances. Fuck 'em all. Wasn't that what Gittins said with a bit more subtlety?

Not so sure we have any reason to feel embarrassed by being laughed at by Europe Andy.
They are a cess pool of far right politics and pretend dictators for the foreseeable future.
Our benign little democracy still looks enlightened compared to most of Europe in 2019.

But yeah, fuck ScoMo.

Hey Blindboy, I know it's a fucking joke but it'd be good to avoid U.S. levels of division and hate don't you think?

FR it always seemed to me that, generally speaking, Europeans are much more politically engaged and capable of mature discussions.
I'm probably miles off course.

Andy there is a time for calling out those who have voted irresponsibly in the strongest possible terms....... this is it. It will pass.

Dont know why Blindboy but your self righteousness just makes me smile.

Yeah but we all know what sort of person you are Indo, you nailed your colours to the wall a while back.

Well Indo, that's probably because you are a smug bastard feeling very pleased that his vote for toxic self interest was supported by so many like minded fucknuckles.

Argh the tolerant non judgemental respectful left, always love democracy until it doesn't go their way, then it's tantrums and name calling all round.

Even saw they torched a one nation van in flames down in Tassie.

BTW. Can you explain how i voted in self interest?

If i was going to vote for pure self interest (what i can get $$$) i would have voted for Labor much more likely to get some free money or some middle class welfare, or a raising of the tax free threshold, or raising of GST free threshold, and yeah it would all be nice.

But i didn't, i voted for a sensible mature proven government, and a proven leader.

Yeah self interest for myself and families future.

Andy - How did Sustainable Australia wnd up ?

Many votes ?

Indo you admitted here last week that you voted for personal financial benefit. I can't be fucked digging it out now ...... but I probably will if you keep denying it. Good to see that you have perfected the art of self delusion.

"i voted for a sensible mature proven government, and a proven leader."

It must make it so much easier to live with yourself.

In the electorate of Richmond on the far North Coast of NSW, Sustainable Australia candidate Ronald McDonald (he's no clown - upsize your voice in parliament!) ended up with 3% of the vote with 2698 first preferences. (Got some laughs spruiking those lines last Saturday!)

I don't think that's too bad really, the two majors continue to go backwards and some micros make a bit of headway.

Still looking for national results.

Do you think you’ll keep participating?

Jeez BB, I voted Labor, and I too had a brief moment of anger, but how about some self reflection? You seem fail to realise that your attitude and approach to those that don't fit your reality is a significant cause of the state we are in. Yeah the Libs went negative and made use of a Labors big target...but look at the swings, and the locations where the LNP cleaned up...doesnt that tell you something about the drum you keep banging? I can guarantee that plenty of those who voted in opposition to you are good people. For Labor its time to site down and listen to those in the seats that swung so surprisingly. Simple connections with the workers and the 'aspirational' is key.
As far as climate change goes, Labor needs to ditch any perceived or real alignment with the Greens, they need to focus on a realistic and costed transition to Low CO2, that involves workers and nuclear energy and Nuke waste processing/storage.

Im assuming BB you mean this post page 170 of whats what.(in reply to Factotum assuming id vote for Scomo)

"I do like Scott Morrison but ive never voted liberal and i wont vote liberal at this election, as just mentioned in another thread, i do trust them more to keep things on track, but i just cant vote for them, i just dont earn enough to really benefit from doing so. (in a handout kind of way)

On the flip side i dont trust Labor to run the country, i do fear they they are going to send us into a recession plus the influence of the greens on them especially in regard to social issues etc....but if they get in, i will just cross my fingers they dont send us into a recession, and lap up all the middle class wealth fare etc that i dont deserve but happy to take, hopefully they will raise the tax free threshold again or even better the GST threshold.

My voting history technically the parties ive voted for the most is the Greens when young and dumb and Labor and then last time i just left it blank, this time im not sure who i will vote for first but plan to vote below the line, all i know is i will put Liberal, Labor, Greens last, but maybe a party first that will preference Liberals."

Fair enough, i did say "i just dont earn enough to really benefit from doing so. (in a handout kind of way)"

But end of the day i decided to put Liberals second (after my one nation protest vote) as I really didn't want to risk labor getting in.

Definitely intend to keep doing basic monkey stuff, it's fun and a great way to get involved in the community.

As for anything more serious, that's a big call - it's a cutthroat game and I'm a sensitive fella with plenty of skeletons in the closet - sex, drugs, rock'n'roll, the occasional night in jail - all the usual stuff :)

You have any thoughts of getting involved?

Remember this post from YorkesSurfer (to my knowledge the only card-carrying member of the ALP on here)?

https://thenewdaily.com.au/news/election-2019/2019/05/10/labor-election-...

No media traction or voter attraction? Why?

Facto - You seem to love rereading the threads , but you’re still asking why ALP lost despite a dozen pages on 2 threads with people telling you exactly why.

Maybe try reading them again. Though I don’t believe you’ll take in what’s being said even then. You are determined to blame Labor’s loss on the voters and not the ALP.

Just reading the last few days, sorry to hear you were called a racist Stu as I'm sure your the opposite. Hurts a bit doesn't it when it isn't true.
Regarding the election, time to stop spitting venom as the people have spoken and we have what we have. I'm pretty sure Morrison will be a three termer, that's 9 years fellas so get used to it. Time to harness all that knowledge and vigour you blokes have and apply it differently. Come up with good solutions yourselves to our countries problems and then when the positive ideas are formed with the actual finished plan for the implementation, get Stu to submit it as a petition to the Govt from Swellnet. No whinging, no hate just good ideas with answers. Start a new forum just for this and be serious about it. Ideas like "how can we connect Blindboys rage to the grid to generate power"...(just kidding bb)..I reckon this brains trust can come up with positive solutions and after submitting them to the Govt even if rejected at least we had a crack....thoughts?

@Andy,

Wife and I are gonna throw our hats in somehow. Not exactly sure just yet, maybe just 'monkey stuff' such as yourself or maybe something more. The better half is better positioned than I am in regards to life experiences (she'd smash any BB vs Blowin working class pissing match), knowledge (knows our electoral system in and out), wisdom (no-one hears about Queen Solomon) and public speaking. Always thought we would when the kids got old enough and it seems like that time is now.

PS: Cheers Optimist...

Point of clarification. I never claimed to be working class. I just pointed out that many who do make that claim are deluded. Apparently this annoyed some of them. Sustainable Australia Stu? I'm going with the Pastafairians. May the Flying Spaghetti Monster be with you.

Blindboy- Are you or your wife on the pension now, or will you be in the future ?

Of course you’re not working class, youre the living , breathing embodiment of the Fake Left. Why don’t you and your ilk just take the Greens and run away to your little fairy land so that the ALP can return to its roots and Australian workers can have a major party which represents them again ?

LNP only won because of the preferences from UAP and ON . These votes would have gone to the ALP if the ALP hadn’t sold its soul to appease the inner urban Fake Left like yourself. The ALP could’ve won and the workers would have representation....win/win.

Stu - Which party do you think you’ll align yourselves with ?

That's the thing, there's no party that's an obvious fit, and so at this point is makes it hard to fall passionately behind any of them. I expect the coming recriminations will lead to policy shift, and if not we either focus on one policy across many parties or maybe settle for a community action group. Been a few good things happening at that level around here.

So I hear.

Big story on the Thirroul community Facebook page the last few days is about a brave local woman who confronted an evil racist ogre at the local park. Chased him grunting back to his detritus strewn cave with a burning branch apparently.

He won’t be eating any more children with her on the beat.

Media waTch last night was interesting to see how far the Murdoch rags went during the election ... in all states except Victoria, no coincidence that.

Fake news, Blowin. Russian interference in Froolian affairs. Sad...

So how do labor get things back on track?

1. Go back to being the labor party instead of trying to be the new greens party. doesn't mean you cant be a little more Green than the opposition, just don't push it to unrealistic and extreme areas or be preachy you just put many people off, and if you do focus on it like you did with climate change at least have the respect of giving costings and always be clear the economy comes first.

2. Again stop trying to take votes from the Greens and try taking them from the opposition instead, more focus on pleasing the outer suburbs, regional areas and less on trying to always keep the inner city latte drinking hipsters happy.

Time to move on from all this gender BS and LGBTQ stuff, the playing field is level now for everyone most people are tolerant of peoples sexual choice etc, let the Greens use those cards because most people don't care and are sick of it all.

3. Again don't piss QLD and WA off, but if all the lefties are going to make an issue over something like Adani have some balls and let them know where you stand. (And worst thing you can do is go in and preach like your Bob brown)

4. Go back to your roots of the working class and blue collar workers, remembering that many of those traditional areas, trades etc are now decent income earners, so don't piss them off, if you want to do things like change negative gearing and franking credits stick to one policy, keep it simple and well explained dont try to push too much at once, blue collar workers no matter what they earn are still simple people. (simple but not stupid)

5. Like it or not the leader is very important it can be the difference for many people in whom they vote for, for some like it or not it can even be the number one factor.

Find a leader with some personality that has an Aussie edge to them and a real person that people can relate too, even if you play it up a little, this helps in not losing QLD and WA voters and almost all other Aussies are cool with it no matter our ethnic backgrounds, it's what we expect we are all Aussies.

As we have seen recently everyone loved Hawk, almost all of us have no idea if he was a good or bad politician but he was likeable by both left and right, he also knew when to be serious but also light hearted when needed like the Australia cup day (oh yes big Aussie events, are important footy finals, Melb cup, Aus day, Anzac day etc, you need to be seen at them all, we dont care what code you follow but you need to follow one of them, so will let you off if you dont go to all footy codes finals)

Better still pick a sport activity to do or support, Howard had his fitness running thing, Gillard a big Swans fan, Abbott his bike riding and swimming/surfing, Scomo has his NRL or Rugby what ever you NSW guys call it.

Problem is you cant fake it, we will see through it, so you will need to find something that you really do dig.

Doesn't matter if your a bit geeky or a nerd, you need to play this card, little props like scams hat/caps also dont hurt just dont push the props as far as NZ Jacinta that will just divide people further..

Basically you need to be relatable to normal people, not just a card board cut out that is only about politics, we need to see you as a real person, we need to know another dimension to you outside of politics.

6. Keep the retired age people happy, dont fuck them over, they have worked hard and paid shit loads of tax, so dont forget them and keep them happy.

Anyway sure there is more, but better go do some work.

ALP can be the globalist party or it can be the party representing labour.

It can’t be both.

For someone who has said on numerous occasions “I don’t follow politics much” or words to that effect you have a lot to say.

Stu, that's so good to hear. I like to think that with intelligence, political nouse, a desire to connect and a lot of hard work, you might be surprised at what happens.

But where to direct your energies?

Sell your soul and jump into a major like Peter Garrett or go micro? I tend to think that if you support a new micro there's a lot of scope for shaping policy, tactics and even things such as signs and logos.

Greens seem to be a happy medium and I understand they give a lot of autonomy to local branches.

dont get peevish on us gs, what happened to the baseball bats? (this is the gift that keeps on..)

go for the liberals stu! remember fidel ! "oh to be in the belly of the beast!". i guess that may be a bridge too far. go the majors if you want to do something. and andym i gave a one to sustainable australia below the line

i agree with you Indo regarding your post above.

"For someone who has said on numerous occasions “I don’t follow politics much” or words to that effect you have a lot to say."

He sure does, and most of it is gold!

Not the comedy gold that facto likes to belittle him for, but political insight gold that facto should be paying him for...

...because one things for sure, all that focus group bullshit determining labor's policy, is a bad bad investment...

I don't agree with all indod just wrote, but its a prettty good sumnary. I actually think the franking credits thing was excellent policy. From a structural sense, not a wealth distribution sense, but all we heard about was some 1970s class war, the real gold and benefits of the policy were lost in bill's message... someone's message anyway... A total failure to sell the benefits, and point out the losers - which were totally minimal - as pointed out in yorkesurfers post...but we barely heard that message either...

"But end of the day i decided to put Liberals second (after my one nation protest vote) as I really didn't want to risk labor getting in."

I wonder how many people did this?

A bloody shit load looking at the polls.

Is it really that surprising when labor absolutely failed to sell their message?

Bland bill selling it was a big mistake, but he didn't call all the shots.

batfink or i focus asked indod to explain why labor were seen to be the end of the world, pinning it to policy. There's no one policy, just a feeling of no confidence. No confidence in just about every vague policy they half presented.

This coupled with the immigrant grandparent policy gave a real feel of impending doom, this and the fact they seem way to close to chinese interests in general. Whether that's paranoia or fact, its not a good look, with much evidence if one cares to look.

This truly was oz labor party's trump brexit. If the labor party don't deal with that, scomo (and steve bannon) will have the working class for many elections to come...

btw, good onya andym. You got my 1 too.

I hate to sound like one of those status quo-er revolutionary types on here, but politics truly is incremental...mostly...

Sustainable australia has slowly and surely etched out their place, even if that place is just making the greens (and labor) think about their place in the bigger context.

Good work andym. And stunet too! jump in!

I was actually quite impressed at the presence sustainable australia had for a new micro, so good work. Which brings me to cilve palmer, how the fuck does he get such pride of place on the ballot papers? I expected him to be in the background with all the other fruit loops, but there he was, with a big presence on both ballot papers.

Which brings me to minors and preferences. Going to vote, I thought it would be easy to put ALP LNP last, but it wasn't. One had to have a good look and wade through the bullshit just to do it with a mild consciousness.

The system is so geared to the majors its just flat out unfair!

Your average disengaged voter has no chance, so just opts out, as evidenced by a friend at work, his partner,and all his mates, who had no confidence in anyone, so they just walked in, and walked out, leaving the ballot blank. And these aren't dumb people, incapable of thought, they're semi professional, with nice houses, investments, and decent pays, that should vote LNP if self interest is really the driver...

...but they didn't....

They didn't vote labor either!

So many people who are not partisan these days. So much potential for real alternatives to get up...

So many swingers ripe for the picking, its like tinder meets a raging 70s car key party out there..

...yet labor just continues to repel them...

At some point, some time, some juncture in the madness, you've just got to stop and ask yourselves ...why?

That time doesn't look like anytime soon looking at still bill's concession speech and many of the comments on here..

"The system is so geared to the majors its just flat out unfair!"

My oath it is.

Check out what preferential voting in the HOR does to your vote -

Coalition 41% of the vote for about 50% of the seats in the HOR, Labor 33% of the vote for about 43% of the seats and then it falls off a cliff with The Greens getting 10% of the vote for 0.6% of the seats.

Undemocratic.

And thanks Syppo - imagine if we all did just a little bit, things would change dramatically.

"...all we heard about was some 1970s class war, the real gold and benefits of the policy were lost in bill's message... someone's message anyway... A total failure to sell the benefits, and point out the losers - which were totally minimal - as pointed out in yorkesurfers post...but we barely heard that message either..."

"I... the royal we, you know, the editorial we..."?

"batfink or i focus asked indod to explain why labor were seen to be the end of the world, pinning it to policy. There's no one policy, just a feeling of no confidence. No confidence in just about every vague policy they half presented.

This coupled with the immigrant grandparent policy gave a real feel of impending doom, this and the fact they seem way to close to chinese interests in general. Whether that's paranoia or fact, its not a good look, with much evidence if one cares to look."

The 'feels' plucked from the manufactured 'zeitgeist'?

ALL THIS SYPPY-NESS PLUCKED OUT OF THE MANUFACTURED 'ZEITGEIST'!

keep dismissing factobum

It ain't just me saying it

Your methods, your polls, your 'evidence', ...your ideas and policies, are just flat out flawed!

Face it now. Or after 12 yesrs of scomo....up to you...

And if that clown on q and a last night is your great new hope...

Good fucking luck!

He came across as a younger, possibly dumber, better looking but still bill, bill shorten...

Couldn't even put alan jones in his place

To all the nay sayers & the would've,could've,should of's.... suck balls loser's.So many toys getting chucked out the cot because we,the majority of Australian's made up our OWN minds,now for better or worse.
The personal bias & vitriol coming from those who must know who they are is so disengendering ( is that a word) I frankly find it un Australian.You all do realise all your comments under aka's also contribute to your lack of any credibility,which appears to be the common trend here.
I'd like to commend "Stunets" posting for what its worth with a positive mantra,plan,ideals base going forward.Am liking the fact mate you wanna play the ball not the man,kudos
I rarely comment on this site however recent events in my world have meant more time bedridden & less time in my beloved Indian Ocean.I'm drawn to a mate of mine & past local compatriot who shares his nick name with a humped critter," This website is full of old whingeing guy's who probably don't surf anyway,I'm outta here".Something along those lines.Ditto that,ain't coming back, stay true to the life. Only a surfer ...

C'mon Mal, you commend me for playing the ball and then turn around and do the opposite.

Also, I'm sure Camel said that to you in private. Not cool to post it in public.

Facto - as a paid ALP party member , it’s a bit rich you telling people what the zeitgeist is or isn’t after such a spectacular misread of it by your party.

Yes, V.I. is a specimen of sorts. So are most of us. Reading the tea-leaves, poking through the post-election entrails, lazily tying this result to those old stalwarts the US and the UK, fuck, Syppy you've made a career out of conflating these, especially the Seppos! (Beware! As Camus said, “Whatever prevents you from doing your work has become your work.”) And fallaciously too. More often and wronger than most times not.

The interesting connection with the US & UK, and one that doesn't bode well for OUR future, is the information landscape that we share. And no, I'm not talking about the internet. Though, it's a growing kettle of (rotting?) fish.

What will happen to Sanders and Corbyn in their respective nations, y'all think? And what they're representing?

Unlike our Prime Marketer, I don't believe in miracles. Well, at the moment. If magic happens, I've still got the passport. Anyway, the down-the-line prognostication for the US & UK both?

Another real thing that ties those nations together is the historical fact that they've both been through a civil war.

And if we throw in France (another Syppy glom-on of relatively late), REVOLUTION! Bloody and violent and real.

Is that in any way foreseeable again in the US, UK, and France down-the-line a couple of stations?

Stranger things have happened. History tells us that.

Hmmmm, but here in the good ol' land of Oz? Will it ever happen? Is it what it takes?

When I was a young idiot, I would've thought so. I agitated for it. Hawke and Keating were fucking soft sell-outs!

Then I grew up. I actually voted for Keating's party twice! Living in an electorate that didn't afford the luxury of them not needing my vote to keep out the Libs.

But will revolution ever happen here? Of course not.

Australia truly is a 'lucky country'. Depending on where you are situated of course. As always. And it's also true we're run by, what now? Third rate people. Even further down the scale? Dutton! Joyce! Cash! ProMo! The list is fucking endless.

And we really are champs on squandering that luck. World champs.

Personally, the ALP has always been there to be railed against, prodded and poked, WHEN in power.

The way I see it the Liberal Party and their rump hangers are an impediment to Australia edging towards its potential in every which way.

You think Sustainable Australia or any micro-progressive is going to gain any ground under a Liberal regime and its growing propaganda enablers? The ALP? In this country!!!! Hah! They're heading backwards now. We all are.

Appeasing the V.I.s or taking entrail reading 'advice' from self-proclaimed 'working class' White Australia Policy one notionals or techie-wonks or 'manufactured zeitgeist' regurgitating gronks is going to help the ALP truly become the New Labor Party ( 'u' missing intentionally)?!

Power without Glory!

Great book by the way.

If the Labor Party that put out costed policy, worker friendly policy, and tried even ever so slightly to wind back some Howard era über neo-liberalism, and had a 6 year united team, is cooked - and what did this election result say to them? - we're cooked. And with climate change inaction, you can read that quite literally!

Stu, if you or your missus take the plunge into politics, good on ya, but be prepared. My advice for what's it worth, start at the LGA level. Dip your toes. Actually, depending where you are - Thirroul's make-up? - this may be crap advice!

Another cool book. DH Lawrence's Kangaroo. DHs cottage (where he wrote parts of it) is in your electorate?

Funny, the book was set in the time when revolution seemed like a very real possibility in Australia!

So Mal is that just a random blast or would you like to explain what issues caused you to vote the way you did?

Does anyone have the number or % of blank/informal votes?

Andy M - that table, notice each of Lib/Lab/Grn lost a fraction of a % of their vote? That was the figure I was most interested in.

& older ALP guys raging, keep raging. Ignore Indo's post, write him off. Go like the quixotic US Democrats for a couple of years. (Seriously, Swellnet has summed up the hows and whys within 2 days, that's impressive all round. What a forum).

And old guys that don't surf - well we were enjoying our classic logs in the small swells here recently, anything to get out and keep catching waves. 3 generations having a go. Never stop.