Bilge Shunter, I mean Blurt Shirter, I mean Bill Shorten.
But Facto , the ALP didn’t put out worker friendly policy. It ignored the biggest elephant to have ever stood in the Australian room with its immigration blind spot. The SINGLE most influential factor on wages is the flooding of the labour market and the dangled carrot of permanent residency aiding , abetting and encouraging the exploitation of workers who will work well below award - work under any conditions- in order to move here permanently.
The fact that you’d call a reduction in immigration a White Australia policy just goes to show how unelectable the ALP are.
You’re no different from the moronic woman who called Stu a racist for suggesting that Australia should reduce immigration levels.
And you’re representative of the lack of thoughtfulness propelling the ALP ever further from power.
PS What does V.I mean ?
What’s your general location, VJ ?
Perth ?
You going to go up North ?
Here's a thought. Sorry to you Syppy, but then again you do spray a lotta nonsense. Contradictory too. Sometimes even in the same post!
Anyway, where you and your ilk spray around the pejorative 'cultural Marxism' and link it to the other pejoratives 'identity politics' and 'political correctness' (all right-wing shonk disseminated via the likes of LaRouche, Weyrich and William S. Lind from back in the day into the wider Seppo right discourse) and all supposedly prevalent in the universities and other places of learning, you miss the true fuckery at play.
The orthodoxy that is taught that is Economics and all it's associated dismal financial balderdash.
Is there a bigger crock of shit, and toxic at that, as the bought-and-sold MBA?
Now there's some shonky-tonk we ALL pay for in the long run!
AGAIN, Blowie, according to you, you self-proclaimed 'working class' (is that like giving yourself your own nickname?) ONE NATION voting 'White Australia' bigoted nitwit.
Think about the further VET and apprenticeship and University funding decimation, and the manufactured 'skills shortage', and the slackening of regulation in regards to 'temporary' work visas and student visas, the further gutting of penalty rates, and one-sideness of the 'Fair' Work Commission, shitty infrastructure and education and health spends, THAT JUST GOT VOTED BACK IN AND GIVEN THE THUMBS UP, and get back to me about how 'immigration' is the mother of all woes, and stopping people that will actually live, work, vote, and contribute meaningfully as Australian citizens - and mainly real working class ones at that - will magically cure all those ills.
MBA ?
@Facto,
I walk or drive past Wyewurk - where DH Lawrence wrote Kangaroo - at least once a day. Despite being one of the leading novelists of the early-20th century, Davy Herbert ain't too revered around here because, one, it was so fucking long ago, and two, he clearly didn't think much of Thirroul's inhabitants. They were too familiar (read: friendly), and too democratic (you can read that as coalminers and rail workers finding their collective voice), though as you'd know the book involves clandestine political movements which also mirrored what was happening here back when there was a real possibility of revolt.
It’s called supply and demand , Facto.
Google it.
Here’s a little lead in : If there is 20,000 recently arrived Indians on visas in the inner city area all engaged in the search for work in order to meet visa requirements and secure residency and they all undercut each other on wages to secure work , what do you think will happen to wages in the inner city area ?
Now add the 30,000 Chinese , the 4000 Nepalese , the 2000 Pakistanis , the 5000 Bangaladeshis , the 8000 Irish , the 12000 Brazilians, the 3000 Japanese , the 6000 Malaysians all having recently arrived themselves and competing for the same jobs and what do you think will happen to wages ?
And this is repeated year after year with more and more desperate workers competing in a race to the bottom for wages.
ALP can vow to increase the award , reintroduce penalty rates and beef up union rights all they like . Wages will still go down because all of these arrivals will work under any conditions because of the sheer competition for jobs.
Supply and demand.
Not that hard to figure out....unless you work for the ALP obviously.
Even then , you thnk that they’d figure it out because the LNP have used mass immigration to suppress wages for years in lieu of Workchoices.
Our V.I. is simply referring to Village Indo.
Or some such.
Actually perhaps ID is more worthy. The Freudian 'ID'.
Did I just write...
"...you miss the true fuckery at play.
The orthodoxy that is taught that is Economics and all it's associated dismal financial balderdash"?
And you just answered "it’s called supply and demand , Facto"!!!!
Fark! And you haven't even been indoctrinated into the 'dismal science' via any education!
MBA? It ain't Macro Business Acolyte.
As you said, google, comrade. You can fool yourself you're learning something at the same time.
Supply and demand isn’t limited to economics.
Do you have a degree , Facto ?
You seem very proud of your level of education.
Yeah VJ, like I was saying, I see the two majors go backwards and it gives me some satisfaction.
Further details here.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/elections/federal/2019/results/party-totals
And I see Clive Palmer was the big swinger, and that is fucking embarrassing, no?
"Supply and demand isn’t limited to economics."
Is that like channel 7 supplies the platform for an out-of-work Pauline Hanson and her bullshit, and the channel 7 viewers that consume said bullshit then demand her return?
Yeah that's part of it, increases across the spectrum.
Kinda frustrating to think that something as simple as having the money to throw at advertising (no matter how shit the advertising) can be such a factor but what do they say, nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the public?
The people at my work that voted for One Nation are an interesting case study. No one's fessed up to voting for United Australia.
Hey, don't say that about the voters, Andy! Don't even imply it! I'm sure they read the policy statements, cross-referenced and critically had a look at the media 'reportage', local and national, on all platforms, and made an informed decision that was best for them, and even what was best for the country as a whole in the long run. Yes?
Hey Blowin, west coast now but back and forth between here and Vixico for May-July, family events and carer stuff. Getting a wave whenever I can on whatever I can find :) Perth or up midwest mostly.
Are you West at the mo?
The national vote percentages mean about 5/8's of fukall.
They need to be looked at state by state and even more importantly electorate by electorate.
Labor got fucking smashed in QLD. Obliterated.
George Christenson. Yeah, that fat fuck who spends more time in the Phillos than he does in North QLD got an 11% swing towards him.
With one nation and Clive they dropped a giant turd all over labor.
Made marginal seats safe. Probably put the next election out of reach for ALP in QLD.
WA too, smashed.
Tas, not much better.
It's seats in the house that count, not the national percentage of the vote.
Blowie, I see you added a little scenario post-original comment there.
Right.........
some questions.
What visa/s are these 20,000 hypothetical recently arrived Indians in the inner city area on? What are the visa requirements in regards to employment? And who is employing them? And how are they being paid? Is any of it legal?
Thanks Andy, that part (majors go backwards) is most interesting for me as it mirrors overseas stuff, and it may also follow the polarisation of political thought we see in the US. Then there's the aspect of it that could be interepreted as push back to the neoliberalism/globalism, again common theme throughout the world. Poaching of working class vote follows what Bannon said (and really, those that lost it deserved this). Next up in a few days are the Euro parliament elections and I predict more of the same.
I just got home and turned on Sky News to see Albo talking non stop for 45 minutes to a media pack about what direction Labor need to head in after the election wipeout.
I really think once this leadership issue is sorted Labor need to shut the fuck up for the next three years and let the government fill the media vacuum.
Every time a Labor MP puts his(or her) hand up and starts blathering on to the media the government is avoiding scrutiny.
We barely heard a word the whole election campaign from any government minister apart from jabber jaw who talked continuously in rapid fire without saying anything?
Stuff like:
"It is my vision for this country, as your Prime Minister, to keep the promise of Australia to all Australians,"
What does that even mean? It didn’t matter I guess. The voters swallowed it without question.
No I think Labor should keep their heads down and force the media to focus their attention on the government to try and find out where they plan to take us in the next three years?
Interesting idea, Yorkes Surfer.
Check this from page 1 of this thread! 2015!
"A contest of ideas! I hear that bandied around a lot lately. In the media. Or is it the pub?
Politics is a shit-show. Surprise! But it does touch us all. And not in good ways. Kind of like a mate of George Pell's might. Wasn't Tony a mate of George? Anyway, I digress.
So we have all got a dog in this political race, whether we like it or not. And it seems the majority of Australians don't like it. Couldn't give a rat's. Until they do.
So they don't really 'follow' politics. They put up with it. They don't actively go out looking for politics to digest. They usually get doses of it force-fed to them on the TV 'news' or in the paper or on the radio. Or in the pub or hairdressers or surf or round the 'watercooler'. Funny, most of this latter 'news' is the partially digested regurgitations sourced from the force-fed doses of the former.
My point? The broadcast media has a fucken huge role in politics. Australia's MSM is fucken dire. Fuck, we learned how narrow and oligarchic it was back when I was in high school a millenium ago! This ain't new. This ain't news. The actual MSM 'news' has gotten sparser, dumber and more commercial though. Commercial means more $$$$. And when $$$$ gets involved in anything, it gets fucked. AND apparently this is the stuff the masses consume the most. Channel 7/9/10 news? What's in Murdoch's rags? The McDonaldisation of society?
And now politics has to engage through these corrupted channels? The Labor party has to pander to the owners and arbiters of this 'news' to 'cut through' and 'gain traction'? Those corporate, conservative, money-driven control freaks who want you, US, to shut up, tune in and off at the same time, and spend, spend, spend. Consume till death.
Any wonder the LNP is the natural party of corporate mainstream media? Any wonder some of the Labor policies are dragged to where they are, just so they can get 'traction' and 'cut through' and ultimately get a foot in the Lodge door?
Social Media and the Internet may change this state of affairs. It'll take awhile but hopefully not too long. The Corbyn case in the UK is interesting. All the MSM over there is agin him. Even the fucking Guardian, though for different reasons than say, the Sun or Daily Mail. He's starting to propose something approaching a true left-wing agenda. Is it scaring the corporates? Going by the media backlash, it's got 'em antsy. The Scottish vote in the general election shows a glimmer of hope. THAT scared the usual suspects. Fuck the corporate's media.
A hypothetical, an experiment:
What if Labor here just said fuck it, not going on or talking directly to Bolt, channel nine's Today, Sunrise, SkyNews, the motley radio freaks up in Sydney, or the tabloid rags. Feed them PR statements and that's it.
Or even just played off the commercial rivals on their own terms. Appeared on one not the other. Shopped around for whoever's giving the 'best deal'.
Or just used the ABC. Because they are the Australian Broadcasting Commission. Unless you're touched in the head like our previous PM, that 'lefty lynch mob' crap doesn't wash. Witness the Malcolm love-in on there as we speak. I always thought the ABC was biased though - towards thinking. That's why Abbott pretty much boycotted it during his brief tenure, yeah?
So, suicidal? Crazy brave? Do-able and achievable?
Then maybe, just maybe, Labor can develop policies without cheap 'commercial' appeal because you don't have to sell them through cheap commercial outlets to cheap commercial consumers. You do it for what you believe is right not what's popular and think will get you voted in or out the Big Brother house.
'Punk' policies instead of X Factor shit. Are we, the great Australian public, capable of embracing this if given an option? A chance to taste a real steak sanga rather than another soggy Big Mac v HJ Whopper?
Oh yes, I have a dream people. And now, I'm hungry.
Now where's my fucking unicorn. Take me to the pub."
FR, the point there was how little the vote % relates to the seats won.
In my view that’s part of the problem.
Good description of George Christianson.
Old guys that don't surf? Shit tell that to my paddling muscles, they've been working overtime lately. I might take a day out tomorrow....... or not.
Anyone that votes One Nation 1 and then Liberal 2 isn't to be taken seriously and especially so if they support Collingwood.
BB, heard about LSD, not the 3rd eye God but long slow distance training or technically speaking Maffetone Training. Check it out maybe.
I thought you’d made progress, Facto.
You were bargaining for a few hours , now you’re back to anger. Arrested development ?
And did you just quote yourself as a font of wisdom ?
Blowie, that is exactly the same bollocks HR trots out when there's been a(nother) bout of 'change management'.
Anyway,
"Right.........
some questions.
[again]
What visa/s are these 20,000 hypothetical recently arrived Indians in the inner city area on? What are the visa requirements in regards to employment? And who is employing them? And how are they being paid? Is any of it legal?"
Hurry up and give us something, Blowie. I've gotta power lunch to get to.
Burp.
The first promise to bite the dust! No tax cuts this year kiddies! As both the Treasury and Chris Bowen told Scummo during the campaign, he cannot change the tax rates administratively so will have to wait until Parliament sits. Maybe 2020, but I wouldn't count on it, once a lying bastard, always a lying bastard. Ever feel like you've been cheated? Didn't take long did it?
"Thanks Andy, that part (majors go backwards) is most interesting for me as it mirrors overseas stuff,"
Except it didn't happen VJ. Coalition back in with an increased majority is most likely outcome.
They didn't go backwards because, for the most part the minors preferences flowed their way.
"Then there's the aspect of it that could be interepreted as push back to the neoliberalism/globalism, again common theme throughout the world".
Yeah, nah. There was no pushback, an embrace more like it.
ALP took the mildest rebuke of Neo-liberalism to the people and got kicked to the curb.
Libs full steam ahead with the neo-lib Americanisation of Australia.
Record low wages growth, gig economy casualisation, working poor, an unfettered market: Scomo's prosperity gospel. Fuk yeah.
Anti-globalisation?
Not a single party took anything like that to the election.
I read that Macro-business wrap and while his first point about high immigration being the number one issue made sense to me I did not hear a single word from any of the parties about it.
Even Ronald McDonald the local Sustainable Australia Candidate did not mention curbing population growth by curbing immigration in his spiel for the local rag.
Fuck...he's gotta call himself Ron.
EDIT: And yeah, I'd have to agree with Steve. This isn't a rejection of the status quo but a wholesale embrace of it. Either people really do want the full five gears of neo-liberalism or its explained away as populism.
EDIT EDIT:
One of the most worrying things is the blind eye being turned to the gig economy and how, if it's allowed to continue, it'll explode like a time bomb when people have no super and the government can't afford to pay the pension.
I mean, that's the reason Hawke introduced it at the Accord and Keating made it compulsory in '92 - the projected strain on our economy. The gig economy is growing rapidly, as is casualisation, and both of them put the worker on the back foot for bargaining. Employers won't step up unless prompted from above, so what's the govts plan? Labor whispered something about it, Liberals were positively silent.
Oh look at that! Wholesale electricity prices up 7-8% because of the confusion around LNP energy policy! Another promise down? Near enough, I reckon. Let the chaos begin! The long night has come and it is dark and full of fears....... not to mention inexperience, incompetence, greed and most of the seven deadly sins (no wrath yet detected).
Interesting that even with the negative press prior to election One nations vote actually increased. (believe biggest % increase of the main parties)
Which was the complete opposite of what we all expected.
I guess i wasn't alone in the way i thought.
Also the 100,000 new voters (mostly young people) that registered for the same sex marriage vote, most of which were expected or more likely to vote for Labor or Greens on the climate change issue.
What happened to that factor?
We were all expecting that to push the Labor/Greens vote up, but both dropped?
Weird...i haven't seen this talked about or explained about in the media.
A lot of people I know have had a gut full of the self righteous loony left P.C. brigade telling us how we should think. I've been a rusted on labor man all my life but couldn't bring myself to vote for shifty. I'm in a safe labor seat anyway so I just lobbed a juicy oyster on my ballot paper and folded it up. AT least the stock market had its best day in years up almost 2% on the news that the Libs got in . Id rather have a few extra k in my super than a $3.00 tax cut anyway.
Wanna click into an alternate universe for a moment?
Sharon Bird is Labor for Cunningham (Illawarra), just won her sixth term in a landlside - polls closed 6pm, she was drinking champers at 8 - and here's a few quotes from the Illawarra Mercury story:
"Labor's messages about the future including action on climate change, addressing inter-generational disadvantage, investing in education as well as funding for roads and hospitals had resonated with Illawarra voters."
""I could not be prouder of Bill Shorten and the whole frontbench team because wisdom says negative campaigns work but I think the Australian people deserve better than that type of campaign. That's what we gave them."
"We put out a big agenda about what we need to do for the future including action on climate change and dealing with the inter-generational unfairness for young people who have working conditions that are unacceptable, stagnate wages and who can't get into the housing market."
The things that apparently didn't work elsewhere, worked here.
Jeez, Stu, I had to do a double-take on the source and date of that article.
Fake news?
Meanwhile in Queensland...
SING WITH ME!
Galilee Song
Deep within my heart, I feel voices whispering to me.
Words that I can't understand; meanings I must clearly hear!
Calling me to follow close, lest I leave myself behind!
Calling me to walk into evening shadows one more time!
So I leave my boats behind!
Leave them on familiar shores!
Set my heart upon the deep!
Follow you again, my Lord!
In my memories, I know how you send familiar rains
Falling gently on my days, dancing patterns on my pain!
And I need to learn once more in the fortress of my mind,
To believe in falling rain as I travel deserts dry!
So I leave my boats behind!
Leave them on familiar shores!
Set my heart upon the deep!
Follow you again, my Lord!
As I gaze into the night down the future of my years,
I'm not sure I want to walk past horizons that I know!
And I need to learn once more like a stirring deep within,
Restless, 'til I live again beyond the fears that close me in!
So I leave my boats behind!
Leave them on familiar shores!
Set my heart upon the deep!
Follow you again, my Lord!
GOD BLESS AUSTRALIA!!!!
Nope FR, it was the preferences of ON and Palmer that sank ALP in QLD, did the damage and delivered the majority - if you bother to go to the ON website, read their policies on industry or immigration, you will see this is certainly against the grain of globalism - more like an old school ALP protectionist policy. The recent former Country Party was similar. I'd have to check the other small ones like Australian Conservatives. Palmer is mineral wealth creation and wealth staying in regions, the latter a bit different to neoliberalism - and similar to Brendon Grylls in WA with his 'royalties for regions'.
That these preferences have been delivered to a neolib goverment is sad and I agree with everything you say on gig economy, this will continue until we can all pour a macchiato for each other. This was the cleanest dirty shirt, but no matter which major party took power we were getting neolib policy. Only, one was neolib policy with Chinese characteristics.
Maybe the divisions will occur when ON says, hey, about that election win, lots of people voted for our take on industrial policy, what are you going to do about that?
So in % of vote the majors going backwards is important, important beyond how all the preferences get carved up.
FFS, VJ, you technocrat, talk about pissing up a rope.
The ON & UAP voters that read their 'policies' on any fucking thing, let alone industry?!
Hahahahahaha.
And the WA Nats are a different animal in WA. You know that. Last state election Grylls got targeted and drummed out. BY THE MINING LOBBY!
BECAUSE HE PUT FORWARD A PISSY IRON ORE 'TAX' PROPOSAL.
That's the same election where the Libs preferenced One Notion over the Nats too.
Now let's all sit back and enjoy the Palmer and Gina Galilee show.
Abbott may be gone but Abbot Point has only just begun...
I reckon a lot of punters were too scared to give shifty the nations purse strings, all his so called policies were just over ambitious thought bubbles which would take a wrecking ball to the economy for bugger all result. If he'd kept his mouth shut he would have romped it in.
"I reckon a lot of punters were too scared..."
YEP.
"...to give shifty the nations purse strings, all his so called policies were just over ambitious thought bubbles which would take a wrecking ball to the economy for bugger all result."
SAID WHO?
"If he'd kept his mouth shut he would have romped it in."
Now we've got that to look forward to in every election from here on in? Either that or complete unfettered BULLSHIT? All depending on how hard you lick Rupe's or Lachie's bumhole.
Anyway, Australia's the winner here. Either way.
God bless Australia.
Garn old-dog, fetch the stick...
Not quite. If he kept his mouth shut he would've looked like Lib-light and bled more votes to the minors.
He tried to distinguish a point of difference, reckoning that the slow despair of neoliberalism was on the nose and the public had a mood for change.
Turns out that reckoning was wrong.
Except I refused to vote for the ALP specifically because not only did they intend to mainstay the central tenet of neoliberalism- globalisation of labour markets- but they also intended to get the rest of Australia to underwrite their vote buying spree amongst the ethnic blocs.
There's this site called Macro Business - ever heard of it? Reckon you'd enjoy it - and they posted a list of reasons Labor lost, you won't believe what was number two.
'Policy agenda was too complex and too aggressive'
After decades of status quo, don't reckon your suggestion might be a bit of the above?
"Nope FR, it was the preferences of ON and Palmer that sank ALP in QLD, did the damage and delivered the majority - if you bother to go to the ON website, read their policies on industry or immigration, you will see this is certainly against the grain of globalism - more like an old school ALP protectionist policy. The recent former Country Party was similar. I'd have to check the other small ones like Australian Conservatives. Palmer is mineral wealth creation and wealth staying in regions, the latter a bit different to neoliberalism - and similar to Brendon Grylls in WA with his 'royalties for regions'."
VJ it's the conservatives with a sprinkle of right wing populism and a smattering of racism.
My family is from North QLD. I know why people vote ON.
And if you could find me a single person between Rocky and Cairns who has read the policies I'll walk to Bourke backwards.
Pauline is a liberal, votes liberal: always has, always will.
I reckon you're totally overstating this neoliberalism thing stunet. The average punters aren't anywhere near that conversation, even the educated engaged ones.
I reckon few people could actually explain what it is, which is probably fair enough as neither could the imf not all that long ago.
All that was rejected this election was two loose tax reforms that took money off certain people, for no apparent reason. No connection drawn to bigger ideas/policies about economy, practices, fairness, windfalls and booms, ideology etc. A short sell really.
And you can't really blame labor for all of that, as the media is barely having these conversations, even the beloved abc.
So no big ideas were rejected, just two seemingly obscure tax policies floating in the abyss.
'Policy agenda was too complex and too aggressive'
I don't buy that at all.
They could have gone to the public and said...
Negative gearing and franking credits are distortions of our tax system, they had a place but now they've become structurally damaging to our tax system. By fixing this we'll have blah blah billion dollars to fund hospitals and climate change. This is how we will do it.
This is our economic plan
not that hard really, went too small, not too big
If they just even barely threw a line in there about privatisation they might have even got my vote. Just to seed the spectre of neoliberalism
pollls, corrupted all the way
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/may/21/as-pollsters-we-ar...
I can go one better on the local result Stu. Proud to be living in the ONLY seat in Australia that voted out a sitting coalition member for a Labor one!
Sypkan, you really believe that shit? That Labor did not, through every available outlet, explain its policies clearly and simply? I guess some people only hear what they want to hear, only see what they want to see.
ok, they didn't get through
they tried, but failed
no cohesive message, and cagey about policy didn't help
Oh my god , how I hate politicians.
https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/it-s-weird-bill-shorten-stuns-co...
I’m on a politics embargo for a while.
Hard to avoid though. The shit is everywhere you look. It’s basically just a soap opera with less attractive people.
Good luck finding happiness amongst constant disappointment.
Facto - I googled your name and it came up with this : https://www.betootaadvocate.com/headlines/young-labor-hipster-applies-fo...
Comrade !