What's what?

Australian elections are often illogical. We rounded on the Queen for sacking Whitlam, and then Australians booted him from office. Hewson lost the unloseable election even as Keating was widely vilified. Howard lied about children overboard and we rewarded him (in turn weaponising boat people), and he also lied about the Iraq invasion and was again rewarded (giving rise to ISIS and the shitstorm that followed). So I shouldn't be that surprised that low and middle income earners voted for LNP.....but yet I am. IndoDreaming even displaying characteristic deficit by gloating about it. It's tribal masochism. You and your kids will be worse off but you think you've won.

FR: Make peace with it, and move south. Seriously

I'm looking around Shoredump....at a certain island in the Pacific, not that far from here.

too young to just hang my boots on an eternal cycle of sub 3 foot beachbreaks.

kids are happy at schools here though.

Surely you're in a prime position, being able to work remotely.

Kids'll love the change, a big adventure :)

"You and your kids will be worse off but you think you've won."

That's just your opinion, i obviously don't believe or agree and thankfully the majority of Australians don't either.

You've admitted on here that you vote out of spite so I guess you've found your natural home.

Good luck with your corporate tax cuts.

We asked What's What & we get Westofthelake... "How good is that speech!"

A-League final is a good distraction until VAR Criminal booked a seat! Wot!
2nd half has packed stadium booing the Mullet Man for shirtfronting the local.

.

"You've admitted on here that you vote out of spite so I guess you've found your natural home."

My first vote was purely out of spite "one nation" mostly because im sick to death of how the media try to fuck them over, even though i dont agree with some of their policies, i think they should be given a fair go like any other party and let people decide (like many parties they are pretty good at shooting them selves in the foot anyway)

I planned to put Liberals close to last just before Labor and Greens, but when it came to the day, i thought shit i really dont want to risk Labor getting in, because i personally fear a recession and i have no faith at all in labor being able to manage things in a recession especially Shorten and this climate change thing and no indication of the cost on the economy of related policy, just a line "it will cost its more of we don't do anything BS".

So i put liberals 2nd despite the fact there is no cheap handouts in it for me, just a more secure economy and future.

So sorry my second vote had nothing to do with spite.

PS. from memory i put Clive 3rd last

Congratulations Australia, For 6 years you've had a truly lousy government. Corruption is bloody rampant in this country with shit heads like Beetrooter Joyce handing $80 mil to a fucking cayman island company that donated $55K to the LNP. The company on the receiving end of our tax dollars was set up by a liberal party minister and owned by his old Oxford University chum. Faux Mo's campaign was entirely negative and he's brought a paper thin policy agenda to the table. And Australia has just given this fraud a blank fucking cheque. This is our Trump / Brexit moment. Any cunt who voted conservative better not complain the next time this incompetent bunch of frauds bends the Australian public over and gives them one almighty rogering.

Well said

A trip inside the AEC Ant Chamber reveals Downunder secrets...shh!
Swellnetonians can mix & match 1st preference % Nationwide.
Alp 33.8%
Lib 27.7%
Grn 10.1%
Lnp 8.5 %
Nat 4.9 %
Alp highest to lowest % wins... ACT by 10% / NT / NSW / Vic / Tas by 3% ...
Lib highest to lowest % wins... Qld by 16% / W.A. by 13%

Straight out Libs were gone Oz Wide...but the 2 big mining states paid out.

Mandate for funnelling 1st Nation welfare funds into LNP cashcard cow? https://theaimn.com/lnp-welfare-card-true-facts-exposed-corruption-disgu...

Clearly Liberal lost OZ % & State Count but won seats in Big States.
Any Lib voter claiming they represent Oz majority is in a power vacuum.
Judging by Stats Labor easily won OZ % & State count but lost seat count.

Don't shoot the Ant Bully...check for yourself....
https://tallyroom.aec.gov.au/HouseStateFirstPrefsByParty-24310-NAT.htm

@ ID "i thought shit i really dont want to risk Labor getting in, because i personally fear a recession and i have no faith at all in labor being able to manage things in a recession "

You must have forgotten the GFC where Labor (Ken Henry) acted in front of the curve and saved a recession in Australia.

Note Coalition opposed much of the $40 Bil stimulus

Note due to the Coalition spending that debt on the government’s own budget numbers, net debt for the financial year is A$349.9 billion 2018-19 Budget,

Note your mate Scomo hasn't funded the tax cuts

As Vic Local says bend over.

Ha ha I'm sure you don't believe that even left wing rag the Guardian don't believe it.

"Kevin Rudd can't take credit for avoiding the economic crisis – it is the pre-existing strength of the Australian government's finances which saved us from a catastrophe"

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/aug/28/australia-global-e...

BTW. i actually voted for Rudd, i think the NBN was the main reason i did as i worked with fiberoptic cabling for a few years prior to that time, it was a good scheme and liberals have stuffed it up, all parties have good and bad policy.

ID the article is rubbish, mining shed 19% of its work force when the GFC hit, the nations biggest employer was retail and it hung on due to the targeted stimulus.

Thats before you get to Australian banks.

Still you believe the child actors BS............ bend over.

Think you're missing the point ID. Sure, the bank balance was good, a once in a lifetime mining boom will do that for any government, but it was how the stimulus was deployed. It was widely lauded for being decisive and accurate, and from people such as Nobel economics laureate Jospeh Stiglitz.

Sure, they couldn't have done it without the existing money, but they guided Australia away from recession.

Which is exactly what you said Labor couldn't do a few posts ago.

There is countless articles like the one above from reputable sources on the issue saying a similar thing, but pretty much pointless me posting them if you don't believe Swellnets beloved Guardian though.

I guess end of the day people believe what they will.

BTW. more possible good news, hopefully her 5 minutes of media fame is done.

"Independent MP for Wentworth Kerryn Phelps is expected to concede defeat. With 75 per cent of the vote counted, ⁦Dave Sharma⁩ is ahead by 1751 votes."

Hi All,

Can anyone tell me if Clive has paid back the 73.9 million dollars to taxpayers that we forked out for his workers? I have read it is supposed to be happening but can't find confirmation.

Have the Coalition called things all square with Clive following his election contribution?

The Courier Mail which I don't subscribe to (duh) wrote on the 15/4/2019 'BILLIONAIRE Clive Palmer has offered to pay just three per cent of the money he owes workers, tradies, companies and taxpayers, as liquidators forensically examine …'

An ode to Rupert.
Ah Falco, what a lyricist:

"Whose prison break is the most impressive?
I'm gonna go, I'm gonna go, I'm gonna go Tim Robbins in Jacob's Ladder
Such patience, such verve and poise
But wait a minute, shit, that's the wrong film
Morgan Freeman would roll in his grave, if he were dead
Which he nearly was, if you believe the hysterical gung-ho Technicolor crapfest
That is Sky News, or Murdoch Live, or whatever the hell the devil calls himself
Sky News, or Murdoch Live, or whatever the hell the devil calls himself
I preferred him when he was red and blatant, that guy
I liked him better when he swooped around the land indiscriminately
Bending wills and souls with glee
Hurrying kids to their graves at sea
Magnetically debasing the casts of the earth
In a terrible, wonderful focus of horrors
A justice of sorts if you listen to fools who have dressed in the dark for a bet"

Maybe it's not Bill's luck of charisma that cost him the election - maybe it was, you know, something else?

i have to say if i had man-boobs i wouldnt have let myself be filmed running

AbbyMay, great lyrics.

I'm reminded of another Falco:

It's a clear case, Herr Kommissar
'Cause all the children know
They're all slidin' down into the valley
They're all slipping on the same snow

Hear the children

Don't turn around, oh oh oh
(Ja ja) Der Kommissar's in town, whoa oh oh
He's got the power and you're so weak
And your frustration will not let you speak
La, la, la, la, la, la

Alles klar, Herr Kommissar?

"I guess end of the day people believe what they will."

God bless Australia.

Currently the coalition is at MINUS .7 % compared to last elelction.
Yest they fell over the line. But fact is they only polled 41.4% of the vote.
They best stay humble.
And the silver lining is Sco mo owns this now. No more "labors debt". Lets look forward to next years surplus lol

Wow, in what has been some interesting commentary, zenagain said this.

"I'm a Queenslander too TB and to be honest I never doubted the coalition would get back in. The msn were relentless in pushing the labor barrow, fark this very website too. But, when you were able to actually read the comments that followed the articles, the sentiment was more often at odds with the narrative.

Labor were light on policy, lacking in accountability and instead of building up mainstream Australia were looking for ways to penalise 'normal' people. Goodness, a married working couple on 80k each is not the big end of town."

I honestly had gained the impression that zenagain was an intelligent fellow. Truth is, I think he is, but this, THIS, from someone who isn't a semi-epsilon moron. Wow.

"The msm were relentless in pushing the Labor barrow." WTF? Which country were you in Zen? Qld has one msm, Rupert's rag the Courier Mail, and Rupert's rag the Australian, and there would be Rupert's other rag 'The Australian Financial Review', which doesn't get read north of Brisbane, or anywhere really, all calling Rupert's tune. How could you say that. They weren't pushing Labor's barrow, they were constantly attacking it, it was a shitfight. What msm was pushing Labor's barrow, the fucking Guardian website? As if anyone in Qld reads that. What msm were you seeing, because it wasn't those, nore channel 7 and 9 and affiliates, virtual cheerleaders, that they are, nor the cowed and submissive ABC, but lets, not go there.

"But, when you were able to actually read the comments that followed the articles, the sentiment was more often at odds with the narrative."

Have to agree, no matter what was written, and nearly none of it was good for Labor, the comments sections were filled with the most bitter, vile, non-sequitur filled, demented rubbish I have ever read. Logical argument is a thing of the past, it was all visceral, all unconscious, completely at odds with what was actually happening in the real world.

"Labor were light on policy, lacking in accountability" WTF? The most specific, broad ranging, detailed policy agenda since Hewson's fightback, the only other time an opposition has gone to an election with substantial policy, and they were "light on policy". Light on policy!? Lacking in accountability? - how the fuck you can be accountable for something that was a policy, which you owned, which was yours, in club colours, how that adds up to a 'lack of accountability' is a staggering piece of logic.

"instead of building up mainstream Australia were looking for ways to penalise 'normal' people. Goodness, a married working couple on 80k each is not the big end of town."

A married couple on $80K would have been reams better off under Labor, unquestionably, less taxes and more services. You're right, a married working couple on $80K is not the big end of town, but Labor's policy and tax positions meant that you 'might' be slightly worse off if you had an annual income of more that $200k, or more than $750K in a self managed super fund with investments unwisely geared towards franked credits, and it was in its retirement phase, where you get everything coming to you tax free, but you would stop getting franking credit reimbursements for the company tax paid.

As I said, I believe you are an intelligent person zen, so that just makes your original comment astounding and unfathomable.

As a softener though, I think it's fair to say that our tax system is incredibly complex, and the fact is that nobody understands it in its entirety (actually true, nobody in Australia, even tax specialists can't fathom it across the entire system, they just specialise in small parts of it).

Worse still though, only a very small number of people understand even small bits of how it works, even basic income tax is too complicated for them, and that's a political problem.

It's also true that people who have done very well for themselves, who were professionals, doctors, lawyers, have big superannuation accounts and were receiving franking credit reimbursements haven't got the slightest clue about what they were or how they worked. Many of them argued that 'this amounts to double taxation'. It was a category error of the first order, a misunderstanding so far from what was outlined that to explain it you would have to go back to explaining concepts like income, money, earnings all over again before you could build them up to the point where you could start to argue with them.

The more I learn, the more I realise how little my fellow man understands about how the basic things work. The surprise is how far up the line this goes, to people who were highly credentialled professionals with successful careers behind them, who were able to accumulate vast fortunes and invest across property, shares and superannuation, and they haven't got a fucking clue.

I remain, your humble and obedient servant. BF.

If that fat bastard Palmer had a fatal heart attack today it would be pure Karma. He spent 80 million mugging idiots so the LNP would get back in and they would approve his climate destroying mega mine. There's a special place in hell for cunts like that.

Indo-Dreaming, your pouting and self-congratulation for the party that you didn't vote for getting up is less than gracious, and speaks much of your character. Worth a little reflection before putting the knife in.

Plus your selective amnesia is laughable. The only party to ever get Australia through a world wide recession without us going into recession was Labor during the GFC years, doing the opposite of what the LNP was suggesting (which is actually a good idea policy wise).

Even Costello was staring like a rabbit in the headlights during the Asia recession of what was it 2000?, created by the World Bank and IMF. We got through that with the LNP coming up with nothing and being dragged out of the pit by China basically ramping up our exports.

The upside - the LNP's 'surplus' budget for next year is already in the can. It was based on assumptions of growth, wages growth and unemployment estimates that have already been revised (during the election campaign) so they won't be able to go around blaming Labor for not being able to get back to surplus.

The government debt that doubled under the LNP (it was already at 'emergency levels, remember Tony Abbott and Joe the cigar smoking idiot). Now it will be 3 times or much worse by the time of the next election, harder for them to claim their superior economic management, which although a widely held belief does not stand up to any scrutiny.

If things do go bad on the global stage, and boy are there some doozies in front of us, they won't be able to blame Labor for the mess.

Indo-D, the fact that Australia had paid off its debt actually made no difference to Labor being able to get us out of the GFC. It was their policy response that saved us, in the form of handouts and saving the construction industry through the school halls program. Having less debt was neither here nor there, they could have and should have gone that way anyway.

In any case, Costello and Howard paid off our debt by selling the silverware. It was no magic economic miracle, they sold the home to pay off the mortgage, and then they pissed up against the wall a once in a lifetime jackpot from China. It would be better that you read more widely rather than the same article repeated across various Murdoch platforms.

Federal Election 2019: Fraudulent how-to-vote cards told Greens voters to preference Peter Dutton

https://7news.com.au/politics/federal-politics/federal-election-2019-fra...

"Indo-Dreaming, your pouting and self-congratulation for the party that you didn't vote for getting up is less than gracious, and speaks much of your character. Worth a little reflection before putting the knife in."

Ha ha someone trying to act all moral on Swellnet politics forum...oh please, Swellnet politics threads sure aren't a place to be all gracious.

If Scomo had been voted out people here would be celebrating saying exactly the same things i am about Shorten or much worse.

Yes I'm enjoying this it's as close as we will get to Australia's little Trump or Brexit moment, the unlossable election lost, yes im stoked i was dreading a Shorten government and I've spent the last few weeks preparing myself for it, Scomo might not have been my first vote, but it was the result id hoped for but I thought was really not possible.

And it's the gift that keeps on giving today with Kerryn Phelps losing her seat.

Only way it can get better is if they can form a majority government.

In relation to Rudd: Yeah sure.

batfink in relation to super, i do understand it pretty well, it wasnt going to affect me (once you have a certain amount you can just shuffle it) but it was going to affect my parents who are barely over the line with self-managed super. so yee-hah and fuck bill shorten and labor who were going to steal it

The franking debacle.
From what I gather, the company pays the tax... The company then does its tax. There's a refund... That tax refund gets split up to the share holders.
I mean, the government could give the refund back to the company, and the company can give it to the share holders.
But why muck around. So this "it's a gift" line from Shorten was a lie.
If you or I or a company is owed a tax refund, its a tax refund.

Please correct me if I'm wrong. That's my limited understanding.

Ohh...... And Tony Burke would be a great labor leader.

Ok, just back from a surf and typing with the two lead pipes attached to my shoulders after battling a bitch of a current in freezing water for the last three hours.

I don't view myself as particularly smart nor do I profess to be overly informed, however I'm dismayed at a lot of the crap that's being chucked around here. Voting for for the coalition is a vote for self interest, Sco-mos Scumbags (are you serious?) You sound like a bunch of petulant schoolkids.

I admit it, I'm not good at articulating my argument and I was wrong when I said Labor were light on policy- i admit that and I'll own that. What i should have said was that Labor could have conveyed their message better. How? I don't know but they obviously didn't. Because, it's true, a vote for any particular party is a vote in self interest, why wouldn't it be?

In regards to the Labor barrow being pushed, I'm sure Batfink being the intelligent person you are don't read certain news sites that I do and as my access to newspapers is nil, I ashamedly read Australia's two largest (by hit numbers I believe) news websites- news..com.au and 9news.com.au and I can assure you throughout the election you could almost pre-empt what any article was going to be about and to a degree the journalist, yep Malcom Farr, Charis Chang, Gavin Fernando and their ilk. Overwhelmingly these websites painted the Coalition in a negative light while lauding Labor. It was relentless and still is- this morning "celebrities tweet their disgust". Still going on about it. So much so the comments section was more often than not disabled as like I said the sentiment more often than not differed to the narrative. Also, the hate and vitriol was a lot more moderate than you've stated above and it certainly wasn't one sided if it did elevate to that level. So, by MSM I should have qualified that by stating that was pretty much my news source. It's been ages since I've laid hands on an Ozzie or Fin Review.

Unlike Indo, I'm not gloating on a Coalition win, I think Oz needed a change and I also stated it's going to be a pretty anaemic 3 years ahead for you guys. Also, I never ever said that middle class Australia was going to be penalised under Labor, if i did, I'm happy to stand corrected. What I did say was Labor should return to what has made them successful in the past, that was a focus on the workers, tax reform and the environment. Stop pandering to these vocal minority that shout the loudest but bring very litte to the table. Stop trying to be all things to all people, you just can't. May I be permitted to add wage reform, health and education which, by my reckoning are probably the three main indicators of a healthy society. I never said the middle class will be penalised, I said the middle class should not be penalised because that is the largest and most influential voting block and also the largest source of tax revenue.

Finally, I don't take a huge interest in politics even though I should. Facto put up an excellent post about the media and it's role in politics, he was spot on. Like it or not as connected as we are today we will only see the rise and rise of the talking hand puppet or child actor or whatever someone said. Morrison the grinning weasel or Shorten the smiling snake, who knows what they're really like, the majority of voters will never see them in the flesh. I do think it's insulting to tar everyone who voted a particular way as stupid or ill informed or scum (I think that's awful btw) but that brings me back to my first point, regardless of YOUR opinion on how you think someone should have voted, how dare you condescend to me on how I should have. Stu mentioned his kid got stitched up without taking his wallet out of his pocket, I guarantee most who have kids here they went to school today. Can anyone point out to me where the Coalition is ripping money out of health, education and essential services? I'd like to know. Australia is fucking awesome seems to be whine exports are increasing exponentially though.

Sorry rambling, I'm not happy with a Coalition win even though I have typically been a Lib voter since my 30's. I sincerely think Australia needed a change and a reset to the imbalance. But I can't cop this campaign built on lies and deceit rubbish. Labor lost because the majority of Australians albeit by a slim margin thought the Libs were the best party to lead the country aimlessly into the future- it's that simple.

Btw, I'm not intelligent, never said i was. I just went to school like everybody else did and happen to enjoy reading stories.

Also, notice the ASX surged this morning. Coincidence?

Indo D said - "Ha ha someone trying to act all moral on Swellnet politics forum...oh please, Swellnet politics threads sure aren't a place to be all gracious.

If Scomo had been voted out people here would be celebrating saying exactly the same things i am about Shorten or much worse."

True, political debate here is robust, that's a good thing and I don't mind that. Sorts out the thinkers from the numb-nuts. How you conduct yourself when you have won reveals much about you though, Indo-Dreaming.

Poking your tongue out and going nyah nyah nee nyah nyah just isn't a good look, you know, for someone over 10 years old. What doubts I may have had about you are now expunged, and at least in that regard I think you.

As for the second part, well some certainly would have gone in as hard, probably with a little more eloquence and a lot more reason behind them, and certainly I would have tried to steer clear of the 'nyah nyah' response. It's about more than keyboard warrior shit. The development of personal character requires more than just anonymous shit-posting, and although it seems a victimless non-crime, it isn't. There is a price paid

For the record, I'm a big winner out of it all personally, and those franking credit rebates are going to come in big time in a few years when we both retire. It's just dumb policy, that's all, and Labor picked up on it, and most people have never heard of it, didn't know it was going on, and if they understood it would be up in arms about it.

I'm really interested in your point of view of why the world was going to end if Labor got in. I'd like to understand, seriously, because this was actually real. A lot of people felt this, and Kerri Anne Kennelly went on TV and said exactly those words.

I'd like you to point to actual policies and run through them, piece by piece, joining the dots to understand what it is that a Labor Government was going to do that was going to bring down the end of society as we know it, to help get to the roots of the arguments and point out that it just wasn't the case.

Whole governments have quite small influence on how the economy is going, our employment levels, how 'agile and innovative' we are, and how much money we make, at an economy level. Individual pieces of policy have even less influence, so small as to be negligible and also unknowable. I'd like to attack the idea that governments set much at all in the economy other than in war-time situations, and all they can do is set up a system in the hope that it moves in a particular direction.

Or to put it another way, the economy is an ocean liner, and the government is a guy at the helm with a paddle leaning over the side.

Don’t talk yourself down , Zen, your voice is as reasoned and legitimate as any on here.

Whine exports !

"batfink in relation to super, i do understand it pretty well,"

Fair enough loungelizard, be interested in some of the details without needing to give me their bank account details. Although it's sort of about super, it's actually about tax. If your parents are 'barely over the line', the question has to be what line they are barely over. As you can earn quite a bit before you get absolutely no pension at all, they would have to be earning quite a bit from their superannuation pension to be above that, and if you were getting any sort of pension, then you weren't affected by the franking credits issue, but I'm not surprised if they thought it would hit them because they would have been getting leaflets from a pollie telling them that Bill Shorten had his hand in their pockets. If they are not yet of a pensionable age, then they must have a fair whack in their superannuation which they can just draw down a bit quicker and live a little.

Regardless of anything else Loungelizard, I recommend they check out how the aged pension works and how much you can earn and still get something, plus maybe look at a new financial adviser. Seriously.

Here’s a question : Has anyone ever seen an article of Kelly Slater’s Outerknown clothing brand worn by anyone not in the surfing industry ?

Has anyone ever seen one anywhere ever ?

Still a shit name.

Sheepdog, my good man,

"The franking debacle.
From what I gather, the company pays the tax... The company then does its tax. There's a refund... That tax refund gets split up to the share holders.
I mean, the government could give the refund back to the company, and the company can give it to the share holders.
But why muck around. So this "it's a gift" line from Shorten was a lie.
If you or I or a company is owed a tax refund, its a tax refund."

Snippets of valid information there sheepdog, just enough to know what they are, not enough to know how it works in practice.

It's not a tax refund, it isn't tax that they have paid. A tax refund is for tax you have paid.

It was a gift, although that was a bad political line. It was a gift from the Howard years, when we were drowning in a Chinese revenue boom. No other country on the planet pays it, no-one can afford it, and very few countries have such generous provisions such that pensioners pay no tax at all on income. You might well ask why someone who earns $100k per annum on a pension pays no tax, but someone who earns $100k going to work has to pay $25,000 or so, but that's what we have. This was the cherry next to the pie, on top of the lemon, on top of the meringue, that they didn't pay, would be how Bear explains it.

SD. Keating introduced the imputation credit scheme to avoid double taxation. Howard then said nah that's not enough, if you pay zero tax (hello cashed up self funded retiree amongst others, cough cough rich) then we'll just give you the credit as a cash handout. So who paid tax now?

Labor was trying to be about systems that are 'fair'. Liberals just bang on about 'purist economic theory'. In truth Howard was right from an economists point of view. But Perfect systems are hardly ever perfect in practice.

It was a pretty blunt approach by Labor and full of quirkiness such as pensioner rules and grandfathering dates. But the alternatives probably might have been worse. Batfink alluded to one of them.

Keating vs Howard.

"Although the particular Australian design arguably was a world first, dividend imputation or something similar is not unusual.

Many countries have systems in place that to a greater or lesser degree ensure company profits are taxed only once — among them Canada, New Zealand, Chile, Mexico, Malaysia and Singapore, whose system is called "one-tier" tax.

Many that did adopt it later moved away from it, using the money saved to cut headline tax rates; among them Britain, Ireland, Germany and France.

What is unusual is what Australia did next. In 2001 after more than a decade of dividend imputation, the Howard government supercharged it, paying out franking credits in cash to shareholders who didn't have any or enough tax to offset.

From the point of the view of these non-taxpayers, dividend imputation became a negative income tax: instead of them paying the government money, the government paid them money.

As far as is known, it is an enhancement that has not been copied anywhere.

On one hand, it makes sense because it treats non-taxpayers the same as taxpayers by refunding them the same amount of company tax.

On the other hand, it does not make sense because it means that instead of being taxed once (at either the company or the personal level) as was the original intention, company profits can escape tax altogether."

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-02-12/franking-credits-dividend-imputat...

G'day zen, don't undersell yourself, I've certainly formed the impression that you're no dummy. Cheers for getting back and I have no intention of shit-posting or defaming anyone, although will slip into pointing out where some defame themselves.

"What i should have said was that Labor could have conveyed their message better. How?"

Too fucking right. Labor's message was lost in the thickets of information, misinformation, and downright lies. I don't even know what Labor's message was, they didn't really have one, did they. Don't worry about the 'How', the brightest political minds in this country don't have a clue, nobody does. The internet, facebook, google, communication has changed society so substantially that nobody can just push one message any more. Even Murdoch, the biggest player by far, in one newspaper towns and states is losing influence. His business model is dying, it's just that he doesn't want to let go of newspapers and the subsequent political influence.

" Stop pandering to these vocal minority that shout the loudest but bring very litte to the table. Stop trying to be all things to all people,"

Couldn't agree more zen. It was my sense earlier this year, late last year, that even Labor voters are over it. I certainly am. The identity politics thing is also dying, but it is in the LNP's interests to keep it aflame and they do it brilliantly and then blame Labor for it. Look at most of the 'identity' issues these days, and apart from a general issue of equity and fairness, it is mostly the right that are pushing hard on the identity politics, making bushfires out of sparks. They love it and they need it, it gives them a common enemy and takes people eyes away from the main game, which is health, which is education, and which is wages.

"news websites- news..com.au and 9news.com.au and I can assure you throughout the election you could almost pre-empt what any article was going to be about and to a degree the journalist, yep Malcom Farr, Charis Chang, Gavin Fernando and their ilk."

Yeah, interesting, I regard those journalists as right of centre, and Nine news generally as an LNP barracker (the chairman is Peter Costello, the CEO is a former staffer to John Howard!) I do read the commentary sometimes, but don't allow myself too much, just builds up a head of steam I don't want.

I do read widely though. Even the SMH/Age is a right of centre newspaper now and were moving that way before Nine took over.

" I do think it's insulting to tar everyone who voted a particular way as stupid or ill informed or scum (I think that's awful btw)"

So do I!. Have been resisting that urge since Saturday night! People have their reasons for voting a certain way, I may take that up at another point, all of this is leading to that idea though.

"regardless of YOUR opinion on how you think someone should have voted, how dare you condescend to me on how I should have."

Yep, I have looked back at what I have posted today, and can't see where I have either stated how I voted, or recommended to you or anyone how they should have, and can't see how I've done it condescendingly if I did, but happy to be corrected.

What I have railed against is that there was so much information and misinformation out there, most people don't have the time or the inclination to do the necessary work to understand all this shit, and I don't think they should have to but that's where we are. We have come to a level of complexity about society that nothing is simple anymore, everything is nuance, detail and complexity, so they get us all through short sound bites and 'messaging.'

And this is the really interesting bit Zen.

"Goodness, a married working couple on 80k each is not the big end of town."

That quote is gold. It goes to the heart of what I'm thinking, and trying to say. Somehow that line got into your unconscious and made it's way to these forums and is exactly what I'm interested in. It wasn't an idea that was formulated in your rational mind based on a thorough assessment of policy platforms, but it was there and that's important.

Somehow that got in, an accumulation of impressions and ideas collected over weeks, months and probably years, and expressed in these pages.

I'm NOT having a go at you or anybody, this is where it is now, this is where it ALL is. Everything both parties do is about getting underneath, getting past the rational mind and slipping a mickey into the back of your mind unbeknownst. It's fucking insidious, deeply clever and outrageously dangerous. They are playing with fire here, messing with instincts, and the genie that comes out of that bottle will not go where you want it to.

They do it to me too, I know they do, but at least I'm trained to send out mind-bots to try and identify them in myself and destroy them. How many people have the tools to do that, the training, the personal will. You've got to be some sort of Vulcan to do this shit.

Batfink

Where exactly are my "nyah nyah" type post?

My post are extremely mild i think ive reacted to people here fairly civily especially seeing the patronizing post aimed at me by some and personal insults directed at me from Andy.

"Somehow that got in, an accumulation of impressions and ideas collected over weeks, months and probably years, and expressed in these pages.

I'm NOT having a go at you or anybody, this is where it is now, this is where it ALL is. Everything both parties do is about getting underneath, getting past the rational mind and slipping a mickey into the back of your mind unbeknownst. It's fucking insidious, deeply clever and outrageously dangerous. They are playing with fire here, messing with instincts, and the genie that comes out of that bottle will not go where you want it to.

They do it to me too, I know they do, but at least I'm trained to send out mind-bots to try and identify them in myself and destroy them. How many people have the tools to do that, the training, the personal will. You've got to be some sort of Vulcan to do this shit."

- Batfink

"My post are extremely mild i think ive reacted to people here fairly civily especially seeing the patronizing post aimed at me by some and personal insults directed at me from Andy."

- V.I.

Q.E.D.

Factotum

If you have something to say to me, say it straight out, as im not into trying to decipher your riddles.

They are neither witty or clever.

The blame game. It's never pretty.
https://www.westernsydney.edu.au/newscentre/news_centre/more_news_storie...
Bloody scumbags, I,m outa here.
https://www.betootaadvocate.com/breaking-news/im-moving-to-new-zealand-s...

Hey Zen great to see your second post worried me a bit with the 1st (your political preferences are nether here nor there it was the facts) you are always a nuanced, humorous and insightful poster.

Not that it matters now but Labor were going to reinvest the revenue they gathered and invest in child care, education and health and also address some of the low wage issues all fully funded.

[VOTE 1] Lynne Postlethwaite on the hustings
https://junkee.com/magda-szubanskis-lynne-postlethwaite/205762

Lynne Postlethwaite (post election) from the Embassy
https://tenplay.com.au/channel-ten/the-project/2019/5/20/lynne-responds-...

Cheers BF, my whole post wasn't aimed at you, twas just a kinda giant thought bubble that came to me in a white hot fury after reading many other posts of many other posters. I was busy mashing the keyboard ha ha. For what it's worth i like it when you drop by, you're always worth reading. As are most of you here.

Healthy debate is well... healthy.

"My post are extremely mild i think ive reacted to people here fairly civily especially seeing the patronizing post aimed at me by some and personal insults directed at me from Andy."

You poor little poppet, for an innocent fella you sure do cop some unnecessary stick around here.

Hahahaha!