What's what?

You're right, a natural gas power plant emits less CO2 than coal-fired plant.

But that's only part of the story.

With gas, you have to factor in the effect of methane, which is 120 times more powerful than CO2 at trapping heat.

Plus, you've got the effect that fracking has on aquifers.

But more to the point, we already have zero or near-zero carbon-emitting energy sources that are preferable to coal, oil, and natural gas.
I don't need to tell you what they are.

Nah, Labor are having a bit of a lend.

For those of you who find this sort of shit interesting ... {a lengthy pdf}
https://www.environment.gov.au/system/files/resources/5a169bfb-f417-4b00...

Andy, I suspect the gas project would produce less emissions per end unit of energy but it is obviously a complex question. I also tend to think that all new fossil fuel projects are at risk of never happening regardless of politics. They are becoming economically risky as advances enable renewables to out compete them. To me it is crystal clear that the only hope of action on climate change is through a Labor government. Voting for parties that may not achieve any parliamentary representation at all is pointless. The larger and more complete the Labor victory, the more capable they will be of doing what they know needs to be done.

"Voting for parties that may not achieve any parliamentary representation at all is pointless"

Interesting logic! ;)

"The larger and more complete the Labor victory, the more capable they will be of doing what they know needs to be done."

Haha, but the problem starts when what "they know needs to be done" isn't in the best interests of the people! Personally I'd prefer checks and balances.

But let's entertain the idea that Labor had control of the HOR and the Senate - if that was the case, why oh why wouldn't you go for renewables rather than fossil fuel.

Again, the answer is obvious.

"Voting for parties that may not achieve any parliamentary representation at all is pointless"

BB did you know that election funding is payable in relation to any candidate or group who receives at least 4% of the total first preference votes in an election?
Makes all the difference to small up-and-comers.
And a healthy democracy can in part be measured by whether or not its minorities are represented thus avoiding the "tyranny of the majority".

So first, if you want someone to be elected you have to vote for them and second, even if they don't get elected they may get enough votes to receive funding.

Doesn't sound pointless to me.

Labor are taking the piss because there is no gas shortage that would necessitate the need for fracking in the first place.

There is a current global oversupply of gas and Australia is the world’s largest exporter.

The East coast gas cartel threaten the chances of an ALP electeral victory with their huge cash reserves.

Once again it’s not about what’s good for the country or the environment , it’s what’s good for the ALP that is directing their policies. The ALP is an industry within itself which now exists purely to perpetuate its own existence. The party takes priority over the country......how perverse is that !

That’s why ALP needs to be dismantled and a new , truely representative opposition to the LNP voice of Capital needs to arise.

Vote independent.

Vote the LNP/ALP duopoly from their parasitic choke on our nation. The ballot box is our only weapon.

Geez it’s gonna be a bloodbath within the Coalition if they lose on Saturday!
https://www.smh.com.au/federal-election-2019/coalition-implodes-as-natio...

I think both sides of Govt will deal with our climate untidiness sooner rather than later as the people , especially the young people are demanding it. Its the attack on freedom that I'll be voting for this Saturday. Labor has taken upon itself to be a dictator of "how things are gunna be" whether we like it or not and in all aspects of life to please minority voters from all aspects of life. It a crazy way to win as the problems it will create will grieve the nation and bring about a depressed population. Then as usual, Labor will try and apply patches to cover the wounds which as usual wont work. I go to the dawn service every year, I remember the people who died keeping countries and ideologies out of ours to give us freedom in our society to choose our own lifestyle without interference, for freedom of Religion, or freedom of speech all which are disappearing at an alarming rate. Now people like Labor, asleep at the wheel, allow totalitarian ideologies like China and Islam and their people to flourish in our country jostling their way into our very political system. To oppose this is not racism, its just self defence, you cant be racist against an ideology, you just choose the people who will be best at protecting you from those ideologies if you want to keep our Australian lifestyle.

And who would those be Optimist?

fracking is fucked - for a host of reasons - end of story

Its the exclusive domain of the liberals even within their shaky coalition - so labor are fucked for supporting it - end of story

The assertion that we need to further ruin Australia by utilising fracking to attain gas is akin to saying that we need to ruin every waterway for aquaculture to supply us with fish.

Australia has some of the healthiest fish stocks in the world . More than adequate to supply our nation with premium quality seafood. But instead we choose to export the bulk of it and then reimport poor quality seafood for our own consumption.

Now imagine if the Seafood exporters got even greedier and said that even the imported seafood is not enough and that we now have to ruin many prime Aussie waterways in order to grow farmed fish.

Oh , wait a minute.......this is exactly what is happening in places such as the ( formerly) pristine Macquarie Harbour in Tassie.

And this is what the fracking will do to the NT. Another cash grab, nothing more or less. It has nothing to do with energy security.

Australia is so fucked.

Vote out the ALP/ LNP duopoly in THIS election. The time is now.

"If Bill Shorten gets in, it’s the end of life as we know it. Honestly, without question." - Kerri-Anne Kennerley

You're keeping good company, Optimist.

Life will still go on , but Australia will not be heading in the right direction.

It’s not enough to accept that they will just be better than the LNP.

It’s beyond obvious that Australia needs the criminalising of wage theft and worker exploitation ASAP , yet the ALP baulks at this and offers a pissweek compensation scheme which will be routinely ignored.

If an employee takes money from the till they are going to gaol, yet if an employer underpays , completely denies payment of wages or exploits a worker they MIGHT be subject to the ALP’s proposed compensation scheme. This will lead to employers continuing to underpay / fail to pay workers because they know if they get caught then they will only be forced to pay the money owed .

Is this really the best we get ?

Is this the master plan from the professional political representation of the working class ? A watered down appeasement to business is the best outcome they can envision ?

"The ALP is an industry within itself which now exists purely to perpetuate its own existence. The party takes priority over the country......how perverse is that !"

Isn't that the truth!

Good post re, Denmark. The road to being elected and having some semblance of continuity to governance that can actually acheive something is so fucking obvious it's painful to watch, as the left continue to eat their own - in many ways - across the globe.

The great globalists and self preservers are a bloody disgrace. Detached and delusional at best.

Haha, good ol' Kerri-Anne, the consummate narcissist!

All that plastic surgery has cut off the blood supply to her brain.

I snuck a peek over her shoulder at pre-polling the other day and I wasn't surprised at what I saw.

Aim true, voters.

The vote starved rats have turned cannibal.

https://www.smh.com.au/federal-election-2019/they-fired-the-first-shot-b...

Hahaha Andy. Pretty sure she was going for The Wealthy as her number 2 pick.

Good point above re the 4% or more primary vote receiving cash back. In 2013 it cost 2k for a Senate candidate and 1k for a HOR candidate. A micro party I was involved with managed to get 2 candidates over the 4%. They received approx 24k back which essentially covered the cost of running candidates. Ie they had 6 senate and 12 HOR. It doesn't sound like much 4 % but it is pretty hard if you don't have at least 50k to put into a campaign, or a well known candidate.

This is why it is worth voting for your favourite micro party candidate and Independent as they need every cent they can get. Ultimately as bb points out one of the majors will form government, but it sure benefits democracy if we send a few bucks the way of the smaller guy by goving them our number 1. In reality its the top 2 - 3 that will detetmine who wins. This is the voting system we have and is unlikely to ever change. We either need to find a third major which may happen in the future (big may) or become a republic.

Intetesting to note that 3 million have already voted, and I expect the merits of this will be debated after the election.

On a positive note, no more fucking election ads! The blackout has begun. I've been sering Clive ads since the 1st of Jan and I reckon he must have spent $50 mill on advertising alone. If anything they have made me want to NOT vote for him, not that I ever would.

Great post Westie.

A Clive Palmer Ad was playing right here on this website while I was reading that post Westie.

Yea freeride its for tv and radio only. Might be a discussion after the election about this also.

"An election advertising blackout kicks off at midnight on Wednesday across all radio and TV, but social media is still fair game for the parties as they ramp up the online advertising three days out from the May 18 election."

"Voters will be targeted with ads on Facebook, Instagram, YouTube and online sites with Google ad placements, because the provisions of the Broadcasting Services Act do not extend to online media."

Might be time for an update on these rules.

"A Clive Palmer Ad was playing right here on this website while I was reading that post Westie."

Yet another reason to become a Swellnet subscriber.

Further to the conversation -
This is from a prominent Northern Rivers law and politics lecturer.

" A first preference vote for [a minor party] sends the message that the major parties are failing, that is the only way they will hear you.
For example, if you vote 1 Greens, then 2 Labor (and number every square) that is recorded officially as a Greens vote that then flows to Labor as a preference.

In terms of changing the government it is every bit as effective in kicking out the Liberals as it would have been if you had just voted Labor, but you have been able record it as a [minor] vote along the way.

When your preference flows to Labor it is still worth exactly one whole vote, never more, never less, but it stops flowing once it reaches one of the two largest parties.

Don’t be deceived by Labor supporters who try to tell you that a Labor first preference is the strongest way to kick out the Liberals, this is plainly untrue, your second or third preference is worth exactly as much, the only rule of thumb is to keep your preferred major party ahead of your least preferred major party."

If nothing else, this is a key point to consider.

Thanks Andy, thats the way I'll go.

Sounds like a win all round to me.

Come what may on the election best result would be the exit of Abbot, Dutton and co the hemorrhoid's on the rump of Australian politics.

Voted yesterday pre poll, got asked "are you eligible to pre poll"

I was wondering if anyone said no.

You just say you're working on the Saturday.
They'll never say no as they want to maximise voting participation.

The last few times I've voted have been on election day, mid-morning and it has been eerily quiet. Straight in and out so I don't bother pre-polling anymore.

I found that Danish political candidate for the leadership very interesting.

Here is her actual position on Immigration.

https://www.ips-journal.eu/regions/europe/article/show/realistic-and-fai...

interesting post andym re. preferences.

Amazing the furphy the major parties have been peddling for sooooo long that a little minor party vote/preference number is a waste of a vote.

Anyone would think you cannot trust these people....

As Blowin pointed out, is this a game-changer for immigration policies from left of centre parties?

@ Blowin,

Voted Sustainable Australia Party earlier this week. The only logical choice based on the predictable bipartisan major party fuck-ups offering collective nothings and ongoing federal bastardry.

Gondwana 94% desert - stabilise population and secure our food and water supplies for future generations.

"In Denmark, the population has changed rapidly in a short time. In 1980, 1 per cent of the Danish population was of non-Western origin. Now, that figure stands at 8 per cent. This development has come about in just one generation."

In Australia it's about triple that with about 19.5% of the Australian population born in China, India or The Philippines alone.

"But not wishing to see your country undergo fundamental change does not make you a bad person. And wanting to help other people to improve their lives does not mean you are naive. The vast majority of us want to do both – we want to help more people, and we want to take care of our country."

On the subject of how preferences work:

https://www.aec.gov.au/Voting/counting/hor_count.htm
(lower house)

https://www.aec.gov.au/Voting/counting/senate_count.htm
(upper house)

So voting for a minor/independant candidate as your first preference (or even a number of minors/independants as your first n preferences) does not waste your vote (as AndyM has pointed out).

If you vote for a minor party in the Reps your vote can easily be wasted. If your second preference was Labor and the drift to your minor party causes their primary vote to drop below 50% and then a greater flow of second preferences goes to the LNP, you just wasted your vote.

By primary vote, do you mean first preference?

When do candidates get over 50% straight off the bat?

Eg.

If labor gets in like expected, does that mean you religious like die hard labor voters are going to be a bit more positive around here????

Please say yes as im looking for some positives that the uncertainty will bring.

what do you reckon will happen Indo?

Andy last time around about 30% of electorates were decided on first preferences, so I stand by my argument. You can easily waste your vote by giving it to a minor party. There are quite a few other reasons to avoid the micro/one policy parties which I might go into later if I have time.

The KAK runs deep on here, hey?

Check previous page too.

I’d be interested to hear them BB.

Oi, Andy, re: the Sustainable Australia Party, are they running any preference deals? Who do they preference?

In the past they have participated in and paid for 'vote harvesting' via the infamous 'preference whisperer' Glenn Druery (most recently in the Victorian state election). What did they do in NSW? (And look who got in ultimately BTW)

I went to their site for an idea...

http://sustainableaustralia.org.au/how_to_vote_preferences?fbclid=IwAR1u...

Is there something to hide?

Oh here we go....

a smear campaign from factobum

and a fear campaign from blindboy

conservative MO much?

Feeling the pressure boys, I thought labor were gonna romp it in? That was the story a few weeks ago...powered by climate change and a disintegrating LNP.

Whatever long shot fluke falling of the cards blindboy's got...who cares...

And factobum, just spell it out mate, you've worn out inuendo almost as much as that offer stuff...

You both reckon labor is the best of a bad choice...before....now you've both gone labor full tilt...????!!!

Small parties are unable to produce detailed policies concerning most of the issues they will have to vote on if they get someone elected. Even the Greens struggle to do this. This creates a situation, as has been demonstrated repeatedly in recent years, where the elected representative and the unelected party officials are likely to disagree over some issues. As a voter therefore you simply do not know what you are going to get across significant areas of policy. Vague motherhood statements on a web site about employment, immigration or the environment are not policy. They are usually merely a wish list of goals without any indication of how they might be achieved.
Another major issue is that, once elected, unless they happen to hold the absolute balance of power, the only influence they can have is for horse trading their vote on non-core issues to gain votes for their core issues. As a voter you have no idea what they may end up voting for to get a vote for the issue that caused you to support them. So after voting to reduce immigration you may find that your vote also contributed to weaker gun laws.
Major parties are not free of similar problems but they have detailed policies and try to stick to them. If new issues or circumstances arise they also have the resources to develop new policy during the parliamentary term. Small parties have a place in the system, but be careful!

pppppfffff!!

No matter what, sustainable australia party will side with Labor on climate change. And with any luck, will challenge them on fracking...

gun laws??

desperate much?

If sustainable australia weaken gun laws...I'll shoot myself!

"What do you reckon will happen Indo?"

In regard to Swellnet politics sadly i think the negative crap will continue, but hopefully less so seeing many of the most vocal are die hard one eyed labor supporters, so hopefully more positivity.

Or you mean in regard to a labor government in power?

I don't think anyone really knows, that's where the uncertainty comes in, hopefully not too much will change because things historically aren't that bad economy, unemployment rates, interest rates etc and any change is unlikely to be positive.

I do think our risk of an economic downturn will increase substantially under a labor government, i think that risk is already there but just increase under labor.

...and a 3 Stooges skit from Curls.

Again.

I'm genuinely interested in the SA Party position in the senate, if they make it, because we all know the right ol' obstructionist make-up of the Hanson's and Palmer's and the majority of the rest that may make it.

V.I. ya reckon the corporate media is gonna change tack? Especially the major players? Expect worse vitriol from the usual suspects especially if and when Labor does something, anything deemed 'radical' in their eyes. Actually, bet on it.

And expect the regurgitation on here, sadly.

Stick to Bitcoin.

Challenge them with what? A nasty letter to The Australian. Their chances of having any influence at all appear diminishingly small at this stage.
Meanwhile
"Morrison can’t even see what’s holding Australia back. Climate damage is holding Australia back, already costing some $18 billion a year, according to a recent estimate. Poverty and homelessness are holding Australia back. The utter mess the Coalition made of the NBN is holding Australia back. The lack of an energy policy is holding Australia back. Corruption – from Helloworld to watergate – is holding Australia back. The government’s self-obsessed time-wasting culture wars – such as the debates over section 18C and Safe Schools, which exercise a tiny group on the fringes but are completely irrelevant or downright hurtful to the rest of the country – are holding Australia back. The disgrace of a thousand desperate people sitting on Manus and Nauru after six years with no hope in sight is holding Australia back. More than anything, what is holding Australia back is an execrable federal government that has no answers to anything because it’s too busy waging war on itself: the Liberals and Nationals are already skirmishing and the election’s not even done."
Daily Briefing The Monthly