What's what?

And Floyd, respectfully, what did all those middle class welfare recipients spend that money on?

Houses? Cars? University degrees? Offshore-tax lawyers?

The money didn't just 'disappear'. It's still floating around out there somewhere.

Floyd even though the Labor party said the word "profligate" till their fronts were covered in spittle, your summary there is pretty well accepted as far as I'm aware.

And of course Abbott/Turnbull are cut from the same economic cloth.

"Don't you worry about the multi-nationals and big boys paying no or little tax, we'll just
- increase the GST
- cut funding to health
- cut funding to education
- cut funding to the CSIRO (WTF???)
- bring in 457 visa workers by the thousand to work for far less than the award
- aid and abet casualisation and contract work
- cut penalty rates for the poor suckers working hospitality on weekends

All the while putting SFA infrastructure back into the country.

Butchers.

Surely with recent events such as the Panama Papers people have started to wake up.

Zen how about we look after health/education/infrastructure for the future before we start crowing about the benefits of middle class welfare.

Is that really the best use of that money?

Our time as a quarry is coming to an end and we're so happy that we've got no manufacturing, no tech industry and no long term plans.
The Chinese must think we're so stupid.

zenagain wrote:

And Floyd, respectfully, what did all those middle class welfare recipients spend that money on?

Houses? Cars? University degrees? Offshore-tax lawyers?

The money didn't just 'disappear'. It's still floating around out there somewhere.

And Zen, respectfully, there is no arguing with stupid. Shirley, you can't be serious!

Stop calling me Shirley:)

I believe an actual bigger piece of the pie went to health and education in that time via increased funding and GST disbursements through the states. How the states managed that is a different story.

Agree on the stalling of major infrastructure works though, but since then what nation buiding has really been done? Talk of a high speed rail, bit of an upgrade to the Pacific Highway, Pink Batts, not much else I can think of off the top of my head.

zenagain wrote:

Or the super-duper mining resources tax TT? Ka-ching!

Sure, the poor fella at the 7/11. No avenues there for digging himself out of oppression.

I admire you TT seriously, no man left behind and all that. You can be my wingman anyday. Just make sure you take out a loan to buy a bigger wagon. I'm calling shotgun.

Kinda funny, Zen, but then again...yeah, nah.

Remember the hullabaloo when a mineral resources rent scheme was even mentioned, let alone implemented? Too little, too late...and pissy...but still the hysterics, the advertising campaigns, the end-of-the-world rhetoric.

Chuck in the carbon pricing as well (both things KRudd squibbed on), and the big end of town, despite being hit really by a fiscal wet lettuce, were rolling around on the ground like a Serie A pro. Gillard who actually did something copped it from all angles. BIG-TIME. Daily corporate media buckets.

JG out. Then TA in. Hopeless. Too hopeless. Then TA out, and ruthless free-marketeer M. Turdstill in. A right old 'merchant banker' (new rhyming slang).

The last PM that hit the big boys before Gillard's modest efforts copped it too. Whitlam.

And so it goes. BUT let's see if people are still going to swallow the same old corporate media kool-aid as before. Internet and social media, man. Exciting times to NOT be so brain-washed. It'll be some ironic shit if the internet kills off Mr Internet.

As for the 7-11 bloke, only a union can help him or would bother. What was that 7-11 fiasco about recently anyway? As for weekend work and penalty rates too. Pfffft, Mal will sort him...right out.

Comrade Zen, I'm driving a bus, get on-board if you want, might have to give up your seat for someone that needs it though, but still we'll all get there in one piece.

Exciting times to NOT be so brain-washed

So true my friend and that's where I can't help but feel the truth lies somewhere in the middle.

And I'll always give up my seat for a lady, or an old person or a person who can't walk.

Drive carefully mate and don't forget your seatbelt.

Oi TB (cough, cough), check it:

http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/rearvision/a-history-of-aus...

Oh shit. The Kouk gets a guernsey in that one. Fucker doesn't know what he's on about anyway, huh? 'Cos he worked for THEM. Like that clown Stieglitz. Warning: you may have to google.

And by the way, those figures you've interpreted. 75/76 - 82/83 = underlying negative cash balance. And 96/97 and 01/02.

And look at the figures in the % of GDP in the red. The highest is 4.2% after the GFC. The worst downturn globally since the great depression.

What's the point again, Truffles?

zenagain wrote:

Exciting times to NOT be so brain-washed

So true my friend and that's where I can't help but feel the truth lies somewhere in the middle.

Of the road? Watch out. You'll end up like a squashed cane-toad.

floyd wrote:

FFS just how many times does this need to be said.

Don't believe me look up any article on the Howard/Costello years, check the ABS statistics and lookup the treasury papers and budgets ..................

Exactly Floyd. Costello pissed a $300B windfall away over the last 5 years of the Howard/Costello government. Current deficits would be zero except for ridiculous tax and super decisions made by Costello, thinking that winning the lottery was something that would go on forever.

If you really want to blame someone for our current predicament, look no further than Costello and Howard

Zen, it wasn't middle class welfare that sucked up most of the dollars, it mostly went to people earning $180K plus per year. Not middle farking class by any stretch of the imagination.

politics on swellnet. guide to how to dedicate a whole thread to winging about the past.

happyasS wrote:

politics on swellnet. guide to how to dedicate a whole thread to winging about the past.

Oh Happy...

If you think it's all in the past you're mistaken.

And isn't there some quote along the lines of "if you don't learn from the past you're doomed to..."

Ahh fugedaboutit.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/apr/21/panama-papers-prominent-aus...

Interesting to see if this gains momentum.

talkingturkey wrote:

zenagain wrote:

Or the super-duper mining resources tax TT? Ka-ching!

Sure, the poor fella at the 7/11. No avenues there for digging himself out of oppression.

I admire you TT seriously, no man left behind and all that. You can be my wingman anyday. Just make sure you take out a loan to buy a bigger wagon. I'm calling shotgun.

Kinda funny, Zen, but then again...yeah, nah.

Remember the hullabaloo when a mineral resources rent scheme was even mentioned, let alone implemented? Too little, too late...and pissy...but still the hysterics, the advertising campaigns, the end-of-the-world rhetoric.

Chuck in the carbon pricing as well (both things KRudd squibbed on), and the big end of town, despite being hit really by a fiscal wet lettuce, were rolling around on the ground like a Serie A pro. Gillard who actually did something copped it from all angles. BIG-TIME. Daily corporate media buckets.

JG out. Then TA in. Hopeless. Too hopeless. Then TA out, and ruthless free-marketeer M. Turdstill in. A right old 'merchant banker' (new rhyming slang).

The last PM that hit the big boys before Gillard's modest efforts copped it too. Whitlam.

And so it goes. BUT let's see if people are still going to swallow the same old corporate media kool-aid as before. Internet and social media, man. Exciting times to NOT be so brain-washed. It'll be some ironic shit if the internet kills off Mr Internet.

As for the 7-11 bloke, only a union can help him or would bother. What was that 7-11 fiasco about recently anyway? As for weekend work and penalty rates too. Pfffft, Mal will sort him...right out.

Comrade Zen, I'm driving a bus, get on-board if you want, might have to give up your seat for someone that needs it though, but still we'll all get there in one piece.

Paaaaarp..

Look out, Tonight Turnbull the PM who wants to stop Commonwealth funding of public schools and slash health funding (just to name two cuts on the agenda) has called Labor adopting the "politics of envy" and "class warfare" for wanting a Royal Commission into banks!!!

A classic neocon diversion ... attack funding/programs/policies that might help ordinary folk in the electorate and then accuse any opposition to these cuts as "class warfare" ......... FFS

Where'd you see that Floyd?

AndyM wrote:

Where'd you see that Floyd?

ABC TV Melbourne - either the news or that 730 program that should be hosted by Sarah Ferguson.

Cheers Floyd.

The cherry on the dungheap has become a festering carbuncle.

Imagine that Coalition vision of the future where if you have no money you get NOTHING - no health care, no education. Worth voting for as long as I can still negative gear my investment properties and who gives a shit about anyone else.

Just remember, beauty is only skin deep but ugliness goes all the way to the bone.

Hey Andy,

The best governments are those that have strong oppositions to keep the debate honest. That's what pissed me about the Howard years, Labor wasn't up to it.

Labor is certainly keeping Turnbull and his neocons honest at the moment and that is good for everyone.

The senate has stymied the Abbott/Turnbull slash and burn agenda and that is why independents in the senate are a good thing (man, the greens voting for senate voting reform lost me and my vote).

Balance is good but that is why the conservatives are dangerous at the moment, there is no balance.

Turnbull has lost me, a shell of his former self beholden to the ultra right in a deal to get the job, where is his principles on climate change and gay marriage for example and now we have the "politics of envy" line ..... just as shonky than Abbott ....

Floyd unfortunately I'm not so sure about Labor having what it takes to keep the Coaltion honest, I suspect if it weren't for a bit of luck like the Panama Papers and also own goals like Bronwyn Bishop, Tony Abbott and Sophie Mirabella, Labor would still be floundering. Whatever it takes to get traction I suppose, play the cards that are dealt.
I'm all for people like Lazarus, Muir and even Lambie - some of them are easy to use as the punchline of a joke but if nothing else they're real people who aren't puppets reading from a script. How's that for democracy, we get a small number of representatives who are trying to do the right thing by their constituents (Windsor and Wilkie spring to mind as well) so we change the rules to make it harder for them to exist! Faaark...
It's becoming clearer how often Turnbull has to drop his strides and bend over for the ultra right - Bernardi would be first in line I bet.

Would be a great question for a reporter to ask Malcolm Turnbull -

"Excuse me Prime Minister, as recompense for the top job, how often are you obliged to let Corey Bernardi take you up the wrong 'un?"

Remember one thing everyone, the people smugglers are all still there, the crowds of arabs are all ready to go and all waiting for the green light...Labour getting back in. In case you missed it, there was a program recently interviewing all the boat guys in Indo waiting for Labour to regain power.....The word ISLAM is Arabic for submission...Remember that this Anzac day when our Fathers fought and lost their lives to keep us from submitting to foreign cultures. Australia must never submit to Dhimmitude. We must never swap what we know to be true, just to make a misguided foreign culture happy.

BobC wrote:

Remember one thing everyone, the people smugglers are all still there, the crowds of arabs are all ready to go and all waiting for the green light...Labour getting back in. In case you missed it, there was a program recently interviewing all the boat guys in Indo waiting for Labour to regain power.....The word ISLAM is Arabic for submission...Remember that this Anzac day when our Fathers fought and lost their lives to keep us from submitting to foreign cultures. Australia must never submit to Dhimmitude. We must
never swap what we know to be true, just to make a misguided foreign culture happy.

I don't think you have to worry, even if Labour regained control they wouldn't change the current turn back boat policy it's been way to successful, they would only rename it and tweak it a little and settle all those in offshore detention to keep the far left happy and close Manus and Naru to me that aint a bad thing.

Border control should also not be about race or religion, im not a fan of any religion but the reality is 99% of muslims are good people and forefathers fought for freedom which includes freedom to practice the religion of choice no matter race or skin colour.

Those damn Arabs, hordes of them stamping their feet impatiently like they're waiting for the starter's gun to go off to begin a fun run.
The brown swarm continues to insult the ultimate unassailable truth that is The Anzac Legend.

BobC wrote:

Remember one thing everyone, the people smugglers are all still there, the crowds of arabs are all ready to go and all waiting for the green light...Labour getting back in. In case you missed it, there was a program recently interviewing all the boat guys in Indo waiting for Labour to regain power.....The word ISLAM is Arabic for submission...Remember that this Anzac day when our Fathers fought and lost their lives to keep us from submitting to foreign cultures. Australia must never submit to Dhimmitude. We must never swap what we know to be true, just to make a misguided foreign culture happy.

Well, I remember Labor is spelt without a u ........ not the boat people you need to worry about boyo its all those people illegally working here with Turnbull's blessing and all those cashed up northern neighbours buying as much of our real estate they can get their hands on, but that all helps the economy so they are good illegals, right?

BobC wrote:

Remember one thing everyone, the people smugglers are all still there, the crowds of arabs are all ready to go and all waiting for the green light...Labour getting back in. In case you missed it, there was a program recently interviewing all the boat guys in Indo waiting for Labour to regain power.....The word ISLAM is Arabic for submission...Remember that this Anzac day when our Fathers fought and lost their lives to keep us from submitting to foreign cultures. Australia must never submit to Dhimmitude. We must never swap what we know to be true, just to make a misguided foreign culture happy.

quality sheepy

Floyd.... Good luck against the pies..... I hope you stick it to them

Sheepdog wrote:

Floyd.... Good luck against the pies..... I hope you stick it to them

The best thing about a win is knowing 80,000 nuff nuffs will go home pissed off thereby causing a Melbourne wide crime spree!!

'The best governments are those that have strong oppositions to keep the debate honest.'

Interesting statement. A study of past human affairs shows otherwise though. That style of government, or cultural behavior has never had much long term success at all, and certainly can't hold up to being the 'best'.

'The Dreaming helped Aboriginal cultures take care of their people and their land. It helped to discipline those who broke the law or ruined relationships with other societies. Although mainstream Australians know little about the way Aboriginal elders and councils worked out disputes and punishments, the Dreaming was a framework which took care of the functions that governments carry out.'

No western style of government has had anything like the long term cultural success Traditional Indigenous Australian government demonstrated. Very different goals also. Overall well being, reciprocity and equality, compared to profit and money at any cost. The aim of profiting ensures that equality will never be achieved. Profiting is not a necessary part of life or cultural organization, its just an idea.

It is particular conditioning which ensures that people can't recognize that there are in fact infinite styles of cultural design, infinite ideas, which includes 'government'. And the same conditioning drives a mounted resistance and defense to any sort of change for the better. People become driven and manipulated insects. Some cultures actually advocate and enforce that people behave as insects. Some people choose to.

The Roger Bannister story and the Piltdown Story are several examples which highlight the extremes that conditioned people can go to, to defend the conditioning. Bannister was one example of determination, focus and will eventually shattering the prevailing, conditioned beliefs.

In the case of Australia's contemporary 'government', the conditioning has literally taken on a life of its own. Its as if nothing else could possibly be better or even exist. Robotic.

floyd wrote:

Sheepdog wrote:

Floyd.... Good luck against the pies..... I hope you stick it to them

The best thing about a win is knowing 80,000 nuff nuffs will go home pissed off thereby causing a Melbourne wide crime spree!!

As funny as that is sheepy, and its very funny, I'm not that sure Homer is a Collingwood supporter, after all he has his own teeth

Hey sheepy, want some bloody good laughs? Google Collingwood supporter images

politics on swellnet. guide to how to dedicate a whole thread to winging about the past.

well happy, economics is the science of hindsight, because their theories are just shit, millions of economists across the world and not one saw the China boom coming, but governments claim the credit nonetheless.

I'm not saying the kouk is a kook, just that he has a certain perspective and story to tell so those links weren't overly convincing , and fwiw steggles is a bit of a personal favourite actually, but hey I'm dumb apparently..

every election we have this debate about LNP being better economic managers, and when all the points have been countepointed and the debate seems pointless, a heap of economists come out and say...it doesn't really matter who is in, Australia is too small for it to matter, and we are just gimps to the world economy, which the recent boom has confirmed convincingly.

I notice in this round of the ridiculous though we're caught up on two words, spending and revenue, one side thinks we have a spending problem, and the other side says it's a revenue problem. then they bunker down desperately making their case trying not to give an inch. well it's bullshit, we have a spending and revenue problem and both sides need to grow up and have a mature debate about both, but we won't we'll have another infantile slanging match instead.

the revenue decrease we've experienced is huge, and in the short time since the denialists belittled abbott it's gotten huger. but no one will concede an inch. defending their previous positions vehemently despite new evidence. we do have a spending problem too, with grandiose schemes like NDIS and gonski being introduced through the downturn, this is on top of Howard's middle class welfare, and structural problems from wasteful vote buying taxcuts that batfink describes, put it all together, and well we're fucked. geez even labor's economist said NDIS and gonski should be subject to a continuing economic boom, well that didn't happen, but the programs did...of course.

you would hope LNP are better at managing the economy, that's what they do, it's "their DNA". but this current mob have no idea. and Howard's mob we're just like the abbott analogy, being the dog chasing the PM car. once they got a good economy they didn't know what to do with it.

Lenore sums the current narrative well, reality is a by product

http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2016/apr/15/pesky-facts-are-sp...

when labor is beating you at your own game it's tume to assess the dogma, and maybe find a new mantra, or you look like self deluded fools

which they are, too much of what two words was on about....from both sides

Submarine contract goes to french Shipbuilder.......... Thing is - French shipbuilder is a company 75% owned by the French government, and it's subsidized by the french tax payer............. Ohhhhhhh the irony....... The neo liberal "champions of free trade", "preachers of privatization", sign a contract with a company 75% owned by a government......

It seems the neo cons can talk the talk, but can't walk the walk...... They have now sold/leased the Darwin port to a socialist entity.... They have now contracted sub building to socialist entity...... Maybe they will sub contract our governance to a socialist entity? Who knows.....
LMFAO......

"you would hope LNP are better at managing the economy, that's what they do".

Only when it's in the interests of their donors and mates - the plebs can take their poor breeding and poor "lifestyle choices" and eat a shit sandwich.

Its about now the resident Swellnet spokesperson for the IPA chips in with a barb .... Earth to Tones, Earth to Tones

Sheepdog wrote:

Submarine contract goes to french Shipbuilder.......... Thing is - French shipbuilder is a company 75% owned by the French government, and it's subsidized by the french tax payer............. Ohhhhhhh the irony....... The neo liberal "champions of free trade", "preachers of privatization", sign a contract with a company 75% owned by a government......

It seems the neo cons can talk the talk, but can't walk the walk...... They have now sold/leased the Darwin port to a socialist entity.... They have now contracted sub building to socialist entity...... Maybe they will sub contract our governance to a socialist entity? Who knows.....
LMFAO......

Interesting Dog, wonder if that fact penetrated any skulls in the government.

AndyM wrote:

Sheepdog wrote:

Submarine contract goes to french Shipbuilder.......... Thing is - French shipbuilder is a company 75% owned by the French government, and it's subsidized by the french tax payer............. Ohhhhhhh the irony....... The neo liberal "champions of free trade", "preachers of privatization", sign a contract with a company 75% owned by a government......

It seems the neo cons can talk the talk, but can't walk the walk...... They have now sold/leased the Darwin port to a socialist entity.... They have now contracted sub building to socialist entity...... Maybe they will sub contract our governance to a socialist entity? Who knows.....
LMFAO......

Interesting Dog, wonder if that fact penetrated any skulls in the government.

I doubt it..... And I'd say 80% of the populace wont see the irony, Andy......

nice one sheepdog, irony beyond belief! but the public don't have a clue. 2 more political cycles they might work it out

seriously these free market freaks have become a joke. they've had their experiment, it didn't work, time for something new

Tones where are you?

this is what we need, more reporting like this that looks at both sides

unfortunately it shows that either side just plays with figures to state their case, but more argument less agenda is nice

http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2016/apr/26/scott-morrison-v-t...

And more news just in....... PNG supreme court rules Manus Is illegal.....

It's unbelievably sad that PNG's constitution is more humane than ours...... A shameful nation, that one day waves flags, next day signs a military deal that the fallen would turn in their grave over, AND then be shown for the heartless abomination we have become, by a minnow country....

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-04-26/png-court-rules-asylum-seeker-dete...

We threw away the moral high ground over 15 years ago by my estimation.

A potentially great country sold out by sociopathic grubs.

that might be true SD.....but I also wonder how much the decision is entwined in PNG politics. its no secret that PNG government and many locals have had enough and want the centers closed.

"No one who attempts to travel to Australia illegally by boat will settle in Australia"

As Dutton continues to

a) use the incorrect term of "illegally" -

The UN Refugee Convention (to which Australia is a signatory) recognises that refugees have a right to enter a country for the purposes of seeking asylum, regardless of how they arrive or whether they hold valid travel or identity documents

and

b) for the purposes of playing on the fears of the unsophisticated, continues to ignore that the vast bulk of refugees/immigrants (96%) arrive by plane.

Anyone watch 4 Corners last night? Someone should be going to jail. Interesting to see what the coronial inquest finds.

yeah the 4 corners program was so bad. to have beaurocrats over-riding or questioning medical officers recommendations is not right. shows that the "manus system" as designed is not up to scratch. the guy should have been on the first plane on the dot. I doubt anyone will go to jail though. there would be too many fingers in the pie (both the system design and its application on the day) to cast blame on any single individual. I would be shocked if the inquest doesn't conclude that the young guy would probably still be alive today if treatment had got to him in time.

I think you're right Happy, doubtful that anyone will even get charged.

Yeah, good system Australia's got, lock em up in a different hemisphere, don't provide adequate medical treatment then shrug your shoulders when someone dies from what was almost certainly a treatable infection.