Next Federal Election
Variation on a theme...
https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2Fuf0ccyb...
You don't exploit Olympic Pro Surfers Mr Harvey...we do.
Martini Mussolini's 100 day Review whipped up a new Olympic Sized Beach Bar Flag
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/mbVQJajqz3E/maxresdefault.jpg
tbb Never said it was an [Abortion]
Qld LNP are first Westminster Govt to Officially Ban (Gag) mentioning or raising Health for debate.
Please someone act surprised & say told ya so...(Bookies refuse to pay out on LNP censured sure bet!)
It's now Officially taboo to utter Secret Woman's Business while Martini Mussolini is on his Throne.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/dec/10/queensland-parliament-pass...
ALP : "Thought we'd seen everything but now this...Boycotting Women's Frontline Health Rights!"
KAP : "Death of Democracy!"
Ab _ _ tion The First Officially Censored Discussion Topic from Joh 4 PM Revivalist Book Burning Club.
Also can't say Youth / Crime / Crisis but Screaming [Youth Crime Crisis] 1,000x is good for business.
Extraordinary pathetically weak Cowardly LNP Censorship of Parliamentary rights...
Qldurr Dictator loses his shit and Bans everyone saying anything for next 4 years...
Cowardly Dictator Blocks Cross bench legitimate Democratic rights to table private members bills.
Why! Coz he's a Woke Liberal coward that censors Whole World to speak about chix health rights.
No doubt to secretly do his dirty bidding without one word from anyone...
ALL lil women Do as I say ...My Rape Dungeon...My Rules...
Qld Perfect one Day > eenie meanie Martini Mussolini's Hell Hole of the Pacific Police State the Next
Dumbarse Qldurrz Voted for Grom of Joh 4 PM 'Martini Mussolini' to ban Women's Voices for 4 years
Davy : " CWA can apply for one free Fig Leaf per Chiko Chick during our sultry Silly season!"
truebluebasher wrote:Voting Rorts are the Same the World over...so precious!
Right Govts stall democracy, ban new enrolments + Spread fear of God into Wards of dying boomers.
Dictators mandate Bill ID for Indigenous + 'Stall 100k's Migrants to Annual Oz Day Citizenship Enrol'Howard's executive overrule Non Core promises desecrated Mandated democracy by 10%
LNP Policy : "We decided Youth, Indigenous,Migrants can't Vote!"
If ya Don't Know > We can brainwash you...Q : Are you better off as Woke Mother Earth decays yer weak Labouring lifeless bodies!"
A : Only a Vote for yer Local Warmongering Dictator rewards restorative Heavenly power for EvermorePlague like NSW Chinese Voters just simply follow AEC Purple Signs on How to VOTE LNP
Don't be Alarmed if a Hi Viz man has already numbered yer Cereal Pack Coupon...Nuthin' Suss!Left Govts race Quarterly Council Citizenship to ward off boomer nimby backlash.
Digitize ID' Direct Enrol Medicare for Fresh Blooded Youth, Migrants & wretched Indigenous.
Mandating Privacy act to thwart LNP Gestapo scanning Rolls to exterminate young progressive Voters.Can't hide the fact that Voter Turnout has fallen by 10% + informal creeps over 5%
So how fearsome is this awesome rising tide Vote Stacking...all be very afraid as Liberals ever say!1995 ALP Premier Carr polled 48.82% (Why!) Coz 93.80% still thought they had to Vote?
2023 ALP Premier Minns polled 36.97% (Why!) Coz 88.04% fear being fined $55 & being Deported.
None can spell who they voted for & too ashamed to share coz they instantly regret voting for them.So much for LNP stoking Asian Invasion of blue belted Boomer Harbour-front seachange enclaves.
Can stuff the Boogie Board Bag for yer Drug Mule but can't block chain yer Bit Coin Border Guard.LNP Terminator convenes Liberal Hate Tribal Council [ Marsha! Marsha! Marsha ]
(Sorry! It's Not happening Jan!) Yer Pre Covid Asian Menace could not even raise Howard's eyebrow!"
Hi tbb,
I hope everything’s going ok for you.
I regard to Labor’s vote stacking efforts I note their national primary vote has dropped from 40% in 1998 to 32.5% in 2024. All this despite millions of Labor voting immigrants being imported.
Yup, that little plot is working well.
Cheers!
A Salty Dog is across the [L] Cry 4 Help
NSW Elections
2011 Libs Polled 51.15% (92.55%) Turnout
2023 Libs Polled 35.37% (88.04%) Turnout
Libs thought Cardigans were fashionable when [L] Premier was scrunching her knickers in purses
Not sure how Labouring the Liberal Party think that is...
Here in Qld > Liberal Censorship List is Growing by the minute
Nov : Aborigines Truth Telling Censored
Dec : Backyard Abortion Talks are aborted
Jan : Back Up Bands are also Banned
Feb : Book Burning Bonfire (History of Qld Censorship) is Black Listed
March : Censorship List is now up to the Letter C
April : Colourful Children's Cartoons get toned down
Martini Mussolini 4 PM concert cancelled by Qld Premier
Dicktator Davy can go fuck himself (Banned Punk Band) Banned from Qld again...
Qldurrz are in Deep Shit when [Sky News] labels their groomed LNP Premier a "Full Dictator"
Qldurrz simply Voted for a return to Joh's Police State...never asked for a Mussolini Headkick
https://www.skynews.com.au/opinion/full-dictator-david-crisafulli-slamme...
truebluebasher wrote:Variation on a theme...
https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2Fuf0ccyb...You don't exploit Olympic Pro Surfers Mr Harvey...we do.
Martini Mussolini's 100 day Review whipped up a new Olympic Sized Beach Bar Flag
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/mbVQJajqz3E/maxresdefault.jpgtbb Never said it was an [Abortion]
Qld LNP are first Westminster Govt to Officially Ban (Gag) mentioning or raising Health for debate.
Please someone act surprised & say told ya so...(Bookies refuse to pay out on LNP censured sure bet!)
It's now Officially taboo to utter Secret Woman's Business while Martini Mussolini is on his Throne.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/dec/10/queensland-parliament-pass...
ALP : "Thought we'd seen everything but now this...Boycotting Women's Frontline Health Rights!"
KAP : "Death of Democracy!"
Ab _ _ tion The First Officially Censored Discussion Topic from Joh 4 PM Revivalist Book Burning Club.
Also can't say Youth / Crime / Crisis but Screaming [Youth Crime Crisis] 1,000x is good for business.Extraordinary pathetically weak Cowardly LNP Censorship of Parliamentary rights...
Qldurr Dictator loses his shit and Bans everyone saying anything for next 4 years...
Cowardly Dictator Blocks Cross bench legitimate Democratic rights to table private members bills.
Why! Coz he's a Woke Liberal coward that censors Whole World to speak about chix health rights.
No doubt to secretly do his dirty bidding without one word from anyone...
ALL lil women Do as I say ...My Rape Dungeon...My Rules...Qld Perfect one Day > eenie meanie Martini Mussolini's Hell Hole of the Pacific Police State the Next
Dumbarse Qldurrz Voted for Grom of Joh 4 PM 'Martini Mussolini' to ban Women's Voices for 4 years
Davy : " CWA can apply for one free Fig Leaf per Chiko Chick during our sultry Silly season!"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UdxOcib2sR0
You make me laugh TBB! What are you so upset about?? Abortion?
Before the Qld election Labor ran a massive (phone call) scare campaign telling us the Libs were going to rescind a womans right to an abortion (Just like the US), it failed miserably because nobody believed it. The Premier has (in somewhat dictator style) said that there is no change to the Qld abortion laws and have put that in writing, that's all, no change. A woman in Qld still has the freedom and the right to do what they please with their bodies, I know, I help them with this procedure.
A Salty Dog wrote:velocityjohnno wrote:Andy - and guys like Indo and Flollo - pay particular attention from 53:00 in. What he is describing with much data appears to be large electorate reconstituting, via the state planning schemes. Areas that vote blue are targeted for huge multistorey development, and electorates with around the average 117,000 voters seem to be projected for a very large influx of new voters, whom Barrie suggests from their background, will vote 60/40 ALP. This will swing the blue electorates in the NSW city examples given, red. That the Liberal party don't seem to realise this is being foisted on them, shows that they do not see the threat and are either conflicted or asleep at the wheel. I suspect it might be part of the recent state govt Melbourne decision on high rise (overriding local councils) too. Flollo your thoughts? Mass voter importation scheme, like California?
For everyday and young Australians, when it's mentioned that the high rise will make it affordable for them to live close in the city, I suspect all the construction (and it's high cost - wealthy investors only) is not being built with them in mind at all. Tents and vans and dispossession for them instead. Wake up!
Hi vj,
I read quickly through the transcript and wasn’t going to comment but you’ve got me.
Barrie claims Albo has run an immigration racket to shore ALP support in inner city areas of Sydney and Melbourne, over the last 20 years so he could win the 2022 election. And despite the fact the ALP had governed for only 6 years he has managed to rig it while the LNP were in power for the other 14 years. Yeah, right. Gerrymander by immigration. And Barrie has hired Brian Byrne, a specialist in Geocomputation and Spatial Analytics to run through the data sets, analyse the results, set some pretty voting pattern overlays on a computer to prove beyond all doubt Albo is guilty as charged. Because that’s what Brian is good at.
Well, I still have a few functioning neurons left, so let’s have a look.
Here are the 1996, 1998 and 2022 Federal Election Results courtesy of Wiki.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1996_Australian_federal_election
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1998_Australian_federal_election
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2001_Australian_federal_election
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Australian_federal_election
Scroll down and click on the map for “Results by winning party by division for the House of Representatives”.
I can’t see any real difference between any of them for Melbourne and Sydney, and can only conclude Barrie’s work is a load of absolute crap. And he should get a better analyst.
But it also begs the obvious question. Why would you deliberately stack immigrants who “always vote for the ALP” into safe ALP seats? It makes more sense to stack them into Liberal held seats.
None of that seems to have occurred to Matt, or his mate.
The tragic part is his audience appears to believe it.
Barries really is a nutjob: as plain and as simple as you can get.
If I can find the time, I’ll deal with the rest of his pile of crap later but here’s the short version.
Every problem we face today you can trace back to the LNP, probably as far back as Menzies, and their lack of vision, planning for the future and just plain incompetence.
Cheers.
YES, thats right isnt it!
The FACT that the unions went berserk in 73-75 and wages doubled hasn't got anything to do with Australia not having a manufacturing industry.i think that was under the Cough Witless watch.
Under Menzies, there were car manufacturers in Australia with spare parts manufacturers, accessory manufacturers.
Every Labor government ive seen starting with Witless and making a pension for everything, to Hawke/keating greatess NON treasure of the banana republic, to Krudd/JuLIAR, then to this little Turd we have now ARE clueless....come in, spend the surplus, create inflation, raise the cost of living, cause higher interest rates!...they take Australia backwards!
A Salty Dog wrote:velocityjohnno wrote:Hi SD, my interpretation of what he said was not that it was inner ALP seats that got stacked, but rather the forthcoming development of multiple hi-rise areas IS aimed at the remaining, fringe liberal held areas of Sydney. As you said - "It makes more sense to stack them into Liberal held seats."
Please go through the rest of it - I'd love to see you explain how de-industrialising Australia has made it stronger. The huge failure here rests upon both political parties that have governed, remember Hockey daring GM-Holden to leave? Disgraceful.
Hi vj,
I posted those election results to show, despite millions of ALP voting migrants coming here, nothing has really changed in 28 years. But if those migrants all vote for the ALP, why did the LNP keep importing people? And don’t forget half of Albo’s one million migrants had their visas approved by the LNP government.
The Hills area around Sydney has been under housing development for the last 15 or so years. Mostly under the control of Liberal Government. Should some 72000 migrants manage to obtain citizenship and enrol to vote, which is unlikely to happen before 2029, given the 4 year residency requirement, the AEC would be required to redraw the electoral boundaries to rebalance the electorates. Sadly, Barrie sees a conspiracy there as well, despite the ALP losing a seat in NSW in the 2024 redistribution.
Barrie also makes numerous unfounded assumptions to support this notion that a global conspiracy is at hand, perpetrated by the left to gerrymander the electorate by immigration. It is complete and utter rwnj fanciful alarmist nonsense.
I never said de-industrialising Australia has made it stronger.
All major nation building initiatives have come under ALP Governments: the Snowy scheme, car manufacturing, Medicare, Superannuation, NDIS and NBN. The LNP have produced nothing.
If they had supported Connor’s plan, we would have had cheap energy for the last 40 years to support manufacturing etc. Instead, the LNP sold off most the power stations in Victoria, SA and NSW, at rock bottom prices.
Howard legislated to ban nuclear power in 1997, so it was logical to pursue a renewable powered grid, and the ALP went down that path. The LNP on the other hand did everything to frustrate the transition, which would have been essentially seamless if Connor’s gas-powered grid had eventuated. But look where we are now. The LNP now want to throw out 20 years of work on renewables and go down the nuclear path with SMR’s, which don’t actually exist yet, with a 20 year lead time and an undefined budget, which like every other nuclear project on the planet, will get blown out of the water.
Howard also sold off NW Shelf gas to the Chinese on a 25 year deal, which returned nothing to Australia. He also sold two thirds of our gold reserves at rock bottom prices.
The rest of Barries presentation is just an attack on Albanese and the ALP. But what his fan club doesn’t realise is if you look beneath the surface the problem is with the LNP, who embarked on a course of obstruction and frustration, who would do anything to undermine the ALP, and never accept any responsibility for their own work (eg The Voice).
I could go on about a host of other points he raises but I have better things to do.
In closing, Dutton is just a shit stirring little urger, who has not offered anything positive or visionary to improve the quality of life for us all, and never will.
Cheers.
Hi SD I'll pay that one, and it's a strong contention that the ALP actually do nation building whereas the Lib record hasn't been so good. I'd like to expand on the car industry. We are the only OECD top 20 nation without a car industry iirc. It speaks volumes to the loss of diverse technical skills and career paths for young people from everything to production to mechanical and systems engineering.
In the 70s we had 9 or more manufacturers and legislation had been setup to encourage local content (GM and Chrysler were reported attaining 95% local parts). Other brands such as Renault and Leyland were manufacturing cars from CKD kits. The early 70s coincided with Australia (and Canada) being seen as the richest nations on earth, when viewed from a resources/land per person perspective, and having a diversified economy to boot. No surprise, the policy makers who set this up had been young adults through the 1920s commodity bust (all eggs in one basket), the 30's Depression, and WW2.
In the early 1980s the ALP government introduced the Button Plan, an attempt to bring Australia's built practices to 'world class'. By the early 70s a new (boomer) generation of motoring scribes had begun attacking local cars for their content, build, use of space - wheras before, the journalists had phrased reviews in terms of how much local content, how it did the job, how the factories were expanding here, and how good it was for Australia. Perception and generational change fed into cultural cringe.
Anyway, the Button plan saw fewer manufacturers, sharing platforms, and going for quality as the way to go; while tariffs were reduced in gradations until 'the open market' forced us to be 'world class'. Think Holden Apollos based off a Camry, and Nissan: The Ute! Which was an XF ute in Nissan badging. Every other country continued to support it's manufacturing industry as we undertook this experiment. Some unremarkable cars were produced, and the smaller CKD manufacturers, like Renault (of which my parents bought one when we got to Australia) closed.
No one reviewed the plan. And so the tariffs continued to drop. The industry warned that it would no longer exist if they continued down below 10%. Many Australians cheered - surely this meant cheaper cars from their offshore brand of choice, when our industry was gone and no longer a tax burden.
Nissan was gone in 91 I think, Mitsubishi (who took over Chrysler's Tonsley Park plant) was gone at GFC time (after what I remember as a particularly hostile campaign in the press - we love to sledge our own), and Ford announced production would stop in 2013, for 2016. Parts suppliers supply all the 3 left, it wasn't long before Toyota (who were exporting well, particularly to the ME with the Camry hybrid platform) and Holden also announced to go. Most of the parts suppliers have gone too. Tariffs kept falling and the plan was not reviewed. In this time Australia produced hybrid cars as above, small cars (Cruze), an SUV (Territory), a small convertible (Capri), our unique Utes and panel vans, and the large family cars we were known for, Falcon & Commodore being like a BMW M5 at $$$ the everyday Australia could afford - if a bit more simple and rugged, no bad thing on a Nullarbor run, which they could do easily. Ford's inline 6 is an absolute gem - now being exported worldwide and dropped into all sorts of performance cars. It will do 500,000km to 1,000,000km unopened. The last SSV Redline Commodores are about the best manifestation of this, and are absolutely world beating in terms of bang for $$$. Interestingly, the press right up till 2017 doubted the local cars were 'world class'.
Government departments buying local and turning over at 3 years produced near new family cars for Australians at very affordable prices.
Since cars have stopped being manufactured in Australia, prices of cars have gone - up. A Corolla which was a 20K car now tips 40K in upper models. Even accounting for inflation, it's more expensive size for $. So yeah, that bit didn't pan out as expected. It seems the local industry kept a lid on overall market pricing and benefited the consumer.
And so it was failure on both sides of politics to review the Button plan, and a general desire not to manufacture from government, that ended it. Countries like Iran now produce over a million cars a year, and we now make some Nissan electric components in Dandenong, and do a local conversion on the big US pick ups. That's it. And it didn't have to be this way.
I think we'll learn, but have to go through the wringer again like 1920-45, to learn it once again.
Just throw these in there as a postscript:
Back in year 2000:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holden_ECOmmodore
In 2012:
https://thedriven.io/2021/11/01/the-long-gone-but-not-forgotten-electric...
@VJ, I finally found a bit of time to reply to your post regarding that Barrie speech. I read the transcript on his website; I personally better absorb information through reading.
Let me start by addressing the politics side of it. He is arguing that there is a conspiracy to immigrate people into the LNP seats. My view on it; government is too incompetent to coordinate anything of that scale. They have no resources or the capability. Regarding the development areas he's talking about, these are the areas where most people want to live (if they can afford it). There are plenty of cheap units in Western Sydney but living on the North Shore is a different experience. Also, a lot of these areas are chronically underdeveloped. Which in a way, is one of the reasons of high real estate prices. It's unbelievable that you can still have a beautiful house, on a generous piece of land, overlooking Sydney Harbour. And, have access to world class career opportunities in the city. I don't think that people realise how rare this is. It certainly is extremely rare in an Alpha rated global city. And of course, it costs extreme amounts of money to buy a place like this.
So, it's no wonder that developers want their slice of the pie. I think Minn's plan is more driven by developer lobby rather than some electoral engineering. He's also aligned with the federal government in this. You can see that clearly as both Vic and NSW pushed the exact same agenda at the exact same time. They are committed to increasing the housing supply rather than killing the demand in the market. Biggest change in the market is coming from the build to rent push. Government is giving some generous tax concessions. Below are the federal ones, there are some local ones as well.
https://www.kwm.com/global/en/insights/latest-thinking/residential-btr-s...
Who does this favour? It favours international developers who finance projects through investment funds. So, chances are you will be buying an equity in a managed fund at NYSE and with that, end up owning a piece of Australian residential real estate. This is obvious to me and it's not some distant future thing.
And then ask yourself, who will live in these units? Who lives in all those units in Melbourne? The answer is simple, immigrants. So yes, in a way, Barrie is right. A lot of this development is to accommodate for future population increase, primarily through immigration.
But why all this immigration? Simple, there's too much money in it. Immigration brings massive increase in tax base for governments. And pretty much an increase in revenue for all their major lobbyists. Every immigrant needs a bank account, housing, mobile phone plan and food. I'll add universities in here as well as they drive an enormous chunk of immigration. Calling it exports is ludicrous. In addition to the above, it's good to highlight that foreign students pay much higher fees. And non-permanent migrants (those not on a PR visa) pay much higher taxes.
Just work backwards from the above and you will answer the immigration question.
My final thought on this; I am personally not against high rise developments. Especially in the big cities. But I am against these ridiculous immigration levels. We could fix the residential housing crisis with the land we already developed. You don't need to release more land to fix the housing crisis.
I'll leave it at that in this post. I will write another one regarding the other topics which I'm more passionate about. I know that you are interested in manufacturing and economic complexity etc. Best to separate some posts otherwise there's too much stuff on one page.
Excellent Flollo, thank you for taking the time to respond. You and I both were immigrants at one stage, probably coming from places with greater economic complexity and manufacturing... as such we have a view as if looking in from outside; what would we want for Australia & our kids' futures if we wanted the best for it, given what we know of the places we come from?
Dutto openly proposes world's most expensive Power Supply.
Each Charted Power supply is costed for the same 25 year life cycle
$58,333 / home supplied by $70b Ontario Nuke Plant / 1.2m homes (Govt own Costings)
$57,000 / home supplied by $57.18b Georgia US Nuke Plant / 1m homes
$ 30,290 / home supplied by $90.87b Hinkley UK Nuke Plant / 3m homes
$ 10,413 / home supplied by $31.24b Flamville France Nuke Plant / 3m homes
Renewables ( Standard Price )
$ 3,526 / home supplied by $13.4b East Anglia Offshore Wind / 3.8m homes
$ 4,650 / home supplied by $1.8b Nevada US Solar Array 400k homes
$2,533 / home supplied by $600m Qld Solar Array 235k homes
2025 Oz Proposed (Vote for...)
$2,500 / home supplied by $10b Port Stephens 4m homes
$5,555 / home supplied by $10b Illawarra 1.8m homes
$79,913 / home supplied by $331b Dutto's 7x nukes 4.142m (38% of Oz homes)
tbb previoulsy under stated Lib's Nukes cost of being 23x more costly than renewables...
ALP previously understated Lib's Nukes cost of being 28x more costly than renewables...
Today Dutto openly reveals his Lib's Nukes cost as being 32x more costly than renwables
All Aussies could retire & live off the income of $79,913 Solar Roof Top Grid...(Please pick tbb!)
In fact SA has too much Roof Top Solar for the Grid to handle +
tbb has been reducing bills thanks to 2007 Rushed Lib Solar Panels
Can't recall paying a power bill thanks to ALP > Reading $780 credit & never even voted once...
Fuckin' stoked with Both LNP Howard & ALP Miles...Energy Rebates.
Salute LNP Howard for banning Nukes & hooking up tbb's Solar...Way to go...100% Works a treat!
Today Oz Liberal Voters queue to Vote for world's most expensive Nuke Power $79,913 / home
These Lib voters wish to hand their neighbours a $80k Power bill just to flick Albo...
That is next level H.A.T.E. FU...Yuppie Lib snobs...trying to buy & ransom the Election by Wealth.
Libs love freedom of choice so much >
Can shove yer Hot Pots & Please Just give tbb a new $80k Climate Smart Kitchen & Shower...
Dutto can keep the Change!
Don't Like Oz Climate then Leave > go paint yer Targeted lids on yer Nuke Thermal Flasks.
Just don't paint targets on us you fuckin' cowards...take yer WMD War offshore or 'nother planet!
[Factcheck] Dutto's Nukes are least reliable > #1 Target in a crisis > Each a Ransomed #1 suicide Bomb.
Ukraine Nuke plants have been hit 74x resulting in 38 reactor malfunctions + 13 o's Emergencies!
Correct...These Nukes required 13 foreign interventions to prevent World blowing up...
Only Dutto is that selfish to mandate the world to Wipe our Arse should neighbours invade SOS!
Typical Cowardly selfish WMD Lib policy...We decide who dies > you all mop up our #1 Global Threat.
https://news.un.org/en/story/2024/11/1157441
https://world-nuclear.org/information-library/country-profiles/countries...
Residents of all Neighbouring / afar Nations have warned Whole Europe is a ticking time bomb.
So selfish is Nuclear Power ...they Hostage all innocent people forever...#1 Global Terror Treat!
Exactly why Evangelists control this power...to make all meek fear their hand of God! Do as we say!
World is racing to prevent Ukraine's Bomb from going off...all are packing shit...living in fear!
Ukraine Hospitals / Schools / Cities switching over daily to 80% > soon 100% renewables
Dutto has already promised to Bankroll Ukraine's switch from Nukes to Renewables (He has no choice!)
There ya Go...Dutto is #1 Ukraine Renewable Fan...
Ask Dutto...does he support Nuke Bomb ransom of Europe or World racing to defuse #1 Nuke Threat...
All know & hear him Drooling...LNP choose the KILL KILL KILL(WMD Option!)...well durr!
Lib Warmongers must really hate us Aussies to paint 7 largest most expensive targets on our nation.
Go paint a target on yer Roof not ours you selfish lunatic arseholes! Blow up yer own backyards!
tbb, the last person I would trust with nuclear energy is Peter Dutton. Can you please share the story of Georgia Vogtle, units 3 and 4? These are latest reactors in the US, they launched recently. You are good with digging data out, cost blowouts were astronomical. Why would we trust Dutton when even those with much more experience couldn't prevent the cost blowouts.
Disclaimer: I'm not against nuclear energy.
velocityjohnno wrote:Excellent Flollo, thank you for taking the time to respond. You and I both were immigrants at one stage, probably coming from places with greater economic complexity and manufacturing... as such we have a view as if looking in from outside; what would we want for Australia & our kids' futures if we wanted the best for it, given what we know of the places we come from?
We want the future where our kids don't have to leave the country to follow certain professions. Or even if they can get some local jobs in their chosen fields, meaningful career opportunities and progression are often based overseas. As a country, we are slowly but surely moving into this direction. As a father of 3 boys I often think about this. I believe there are very slim chances that all 3 remain in Australia.
velocityjohnno wrote:A Salty Dog wrote:velocityjohnno wrote:Hi SD, my interpretation of what he said was not that it was inner ALP seats that got stacked, but rather the forthcoming development of multiple hi-rise areas IS aimed at the remaining, fringe liberal held areas of Sydney. As you said - "It makes more sense to stack them into Liberal held seats."
Please go through the rest of it - I'd love to see you explain how de-industrialising Australia has made it stronger. The huge failure here rests upon both political parties that have governed, remember Hockey daring GM-Holden to leave? Disgraceful.
Hi vj,
I posted those election results to show, despite millions of ALP voting migrants coming here, nothing has really changed in 28 years. But if those migrants all vote for the ALP, why did the LNP keep importing people? And don’t forget half of Albo’s one million migrants had their visas approved by the LNP government.
The Hills area around Sydney has been under housing development for the last 15 or so years. Mostly under the control of Liberal Government. Should some 72000 migrants manage to obtain citizenship and enrol to vote, which is unlikely to happen before 2029, given the 4 year residency requirement, the AEC would be required to redraw the electoral boundaries to rebalance the electorates. Sadly, Barrie sees a conspiracy there as well, despite the ALP losing a seat in NSW in the 2024 redistribution.
Barrie also makes numerous unfounded assumptions to support this notion that a global conspiracy is at hand, perpetrated by the left to gerrymander the electorate by immigration. It is complete and utter rwnj fanciful alarmist nonsense.
I never said de-industrialising Australia has made it stronger.
All major nation building initiatives have come under ALP Governments: the Snowy scheme, car manufacturing, Medicare, Superannuation, NDIS and NBN. The LNP have produced nothing.
If they had supported Connor’s plan, we would have had cheap energy for the last 40 years to support manufacturing etc. Instead, the LNP sold off most the power stations in Victoria, SA and NSW, at rock bottom prices.
Howard legislated to ban nuclear power in 1997, so it was logical to pursue a renewable powered grid, and the ALP went down that path. The LNP on the other hand did everything to frustrate the transition, which would have been essentially seamless if Connor’s gas-powered grid had eventuated. But look where we are now. The LNP now want to throw out 20 years of work on renewables and go down the nuclear path with SMR’s, which don’t actually exist yet, with a 20 year lead time and an undefined budget, which like every other nuclear project on the planet, will get blown out of the water.
Howard also sold off NW Shelf gas to the Chinese on a 25 year deal, which returned nothing to Australia. He also sold two thirds of our gold reserves at rock bottom prices.
The rest of Barries presentation is just an attack on Albanese and the ALP. But what his fan club doesn’t realise is if you look beneath the surface the problem is with the LNP, who embarked on a course of obstruction and frustration, who would do anything to undermine the ALP, and never accept any responsibility for their own work (eg The Voice).
I could go on about a host of other points he raises but I have better things to do.
In closing, Dutton is just a shit stirring little urger, who has not offered anything positive or visionary to improve the quality of life for us all, and never will.
Cheers.
Hi SD I'll pay that one, and it's a strong contention that the ALP actually do nation building whereas the Lib record hasn't been so good. I'd like to expand on the car industry. We are the only OECD top 20 nation without a car industry iirc. It speaks volumes to the loss of diverse technical skills and career paths for young people from everything to production to mechanical and systems engineering.
In the 70s we had 9 or more manufacturers and legislation had been setup to encourage local content (GM and Chrysler were reported attaining 95% local parts). Other brands such as Renault and Leyland were manufacturing cars from CKD kits. The early 70s coincided with Australia (and Canada) being seen as the richest nations on earth, when viewed from a resources/land per person perspective, and having a diversified economy to boot. No surprise, the policy makers who set this up had been young adults through the 1920s commodity bust (all eggs in one basket), the 30's Depression, and WW2.
In the early 1980s the ALP government introduced the Button Plan, an attempt to bring Australia's built practices to 'world class'. By the early 70s a new (boomer) generation of motoring scribes had begun attacking local cars for their content, build, use of space - wheras before, the journalists had phrased reviews in terms of how much local content, how it did the job, how the factories were expanding here, and how good it was for Australia. Perception and generational change fed into cultural cringe.
Anyway, the Button plan saw fewer manufacturers, sharing platforms, and going for quality as the way to go; while tariffs were reduced in gradations until 'the open market' forced us to be 'world class'. Think Holden Apollos based off a Camry, and Nissan: The Ute! Which was an XF ute in Nissan badging. Every other country continued to support it's manufacturing industry as we undertook this experiment. Some unremarkable cars were produced, and the smaller CKD manufacturers, like Renault (of which my parents bought one when we got to Australia) closed.
No one reviewed the plan. And so the tariffs continued to drop. The industry warned that it would no longer exist if they continued down below 10%. Many Australians cheered - surely this meant cheaper cars from their offshore brand of choice, when our industry was gone and no longer a tax burden.
Nissan was gone in 91 I think, Mitsubishi (who took over Chrysler's Tonsley Park plant) was gone at GFC time (after what I remember as a particularly hostile campaign in the press - we love to sledge our own), and Ford announced production would stop in 2013, for 2016. Parts suppliers supply all the 3 left, it wasn't long before Toyota (who were exporting well, particularly to the ME with the Camry hybrid platform) and Holden also announced to go. Most of the parts suppliers have gone too. Tariffs kept falling and the plan was not reviewed. In this time Australia produced hybrid cars as above, small cars (Cruze), an SUV (Territory), a small convertible (Capri), our unique Utes and panel vans, and the large family cars we were known for, Falcon & Commodore being like a BMW M5 at $$$ the everyday Australia could afford - if a bit more simple and rugged, no bad thing on a Nullarbor run, which they could do easily. Ford's inline 6 is an absolute gem - now being exported worldwide and dropped into all sorts of performance cars. It will do 500,000km to 1,000,000km unopened. The last SSV Redline Commodores are about the best manifestation of this, and are absolutely world beating in terms of bang for $$$. Interestingly, the press right up till 2017 doubted the local cars were 'world class'.
Government departments buying local and turning over at 3 years produced near new family cars for Australians at very affordable prices.
Since cars have stopped being manufactured in Australia, prices of cars have gone - up. A Corolla which was a 20K car now tips 40K in upper models. Even accounting for inflation, it's more expensive size for $. So yeah, that bit didn't pan out as expected. It seems the local industry kept a lid on overall market pricing and benefited the consumer.
And so it was failure on both sides of politics to review the Button plan, and a general desire not to manufacture from government, that ended it. Countries like Iran now produce over a million cars a year, and we now make some Nissan electric components in Dandenong, and do a local conversion on the big US pick ups. That's it. And it didn't have to be this way.
I think we'll learn, but have to go through the wringer again like 1920-45, to learn it once again.
Hi vj,
An excellent detailed presentation of how things transpired. A small local market didn’t help the economies of scale and while export markets were found it wasn’t enough to keep everything going. We would all be better off had a more concerted effort been made to keep the industry afloat, and I like your optimism but I can’t see any one stumping up the cash to start again. Opportunity gone, likely forever.
Nothing wrong with Australian designed and built. I had an XB Panel Van which took me everywhere for many years. Up the Stuart Highway to Uluru and Alice Springs etc. I even drove it across the bone dry Palmer River when we believed the BP Road map to be accurate and we found ourselves in the middle of nowhere with no defined road or track anywhere to be seen. It was a much better vehicle than the Hillman Hunter Wagon which preceded it, and it rarely missed a beat. We had two VR wagons which just kept going and a 2003 Astra which never had a problem over 15 years.
Fun fact: in 1994 I purchased a Ford Capri for the CEO’s wife: it was hard to get one as they were going out of production but the dealer managed to find one with the requested colour. A couple of years later it had a shunt in the rear and went off to the panel beaters for repair. When they removed the rear bumper, written in mastic on the frame behind it were the words, “The Last One”.
Cheers!
Here ya go flollo...there's no shortage of Depressing News on Georgia Nuke Rorts...
Quote : Plant Vogtle Each of Units 3/4 capable of generating 500,000 homes / businesses
https://www.bechtel.com/projects/plant-vogtle-unit-3-4/#:~:text=Key%20Fa....
Feb 2024 Georgia cost $36.85b US = $57.90b AUD > Make that $57,900 / home & rising by each search!
Simply divide Plant cost / per home (1m max )= Bingo...Show's over as said ...most run 25 year warranty...that's it!
Plenty of reports verify the same deal...or worse again.
Same as Dutto's Quote just check ABS number of Homes in Oz then 38%
Media could wrap it up in 5 mins & call him out as a Dud for tanking ...Not gonna happen!
Dutto don't care coz he's weaponizing his waste on site = WMD ...All mine precious
LNP Nuke Bombs Sales are Us!
Click US Overview...Georgia blowout quote is pretty much the go to Shitshow.
https://www.worldnuclearreport.org/The-World-Nuclear-Industry-Status-Rep...
Can sue tbb for under quoting & presuming this White Elephant could supply 1m homes.
Being generous here...reckon the costs will blow out further when all said & done...
Reckon if ya shop around...can blow that total to blazes...only took 5 mins to pop out this quote
Really is the World's most shithouse pathetic Energy Rort that Busted Lead Nuke Industry's arse.
Any Oz punter still think Nukes are a Viable option in 21st Century should lose their crayon licence.
They even have a few Vids on this Shitshow & the locals are fuming...they copped a life sentence...
All flat broke / Record Nuke Bills mandated out their arses all staring at the Wall...do them a favour!
Says here that plant in Ontario is subsidized by Govt $7.3b / year...Ted / Dutto wank over it...
https://www.smh.com.au/environment/climate-change/you-couldn-t-make-this...
So much for LNP free enterprise...Socialist Power Scheme bankrupting the Nation.
Qldurrz gotta keep apologizing for the Guilt & shame & we seriously don't wanna inflict any more pain...
Coz we can't live with any more Dumbarse Qld Leader Jokes...does our head in...but we deserve it!
These evangelical Nuke Weapons Nutters will see Oz excise Qld...be for real this next time, so be it
There you have it. When construction started in 2009 the cost estimate was $14B. 15 years later the real cost is nearly $37B.
Speaking of Qld Leaders...Jim is apparently spreading the Xmas cheer...good at Gift Wrapping...
https://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/jim-chalmers-concedes-theres-a-possi...
Well, both him & Tony make pretty good Secret Santas...
https://www.afr.com/politics/federal/tony-burke-has-his-eyes-on-the-job-...
Do we Qldurrz gotta apologize ahead of time...might let ya down easy...reads creepy...
C'mon Oz!
Qldurrz are passing the baton to any Dopey Southern Son that rises up...we can't breathe!
Every Qld Pollie wants to Rule their Rival Pollie's World...
Might have something to do with our locked out Lib style Media Headline Grab...
Coz it kinda Headlines the next powerbroker...need to examine our overinflated isolated Qldurr ego...
Not sure how tbb is meant to self examine as it's 99.99% censored...that's our issue!
We're suppressed by a Right Wing media cloak that suffocates the citizens.
Spuds got a plan . https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/dutton-reveals-nuclear-energy-co.... The Coalition’s plan also hinges on running coal plants for potentially decades longer than forecast by the Australian Energy Grid Operator (AEMO), capping the rollout of renewables at just over half of energy supply and building the first nuclear plant by 2037 – 50 per cent more quickly than the CSIRO said is possible.
By the looks of this , the big G hasn’t got much faith in spud pulling off his ( or her ) plan . https://reneweconomy.com.au/gina-rinehart-to-build-eye-sore-solar-farm-o...
velocityjohnno wrote:A Salty Dog wrote:velocityjohnno wrote:Hi SD, my interpretation of what he said was not that it was inner ALP seats that got stacked, but rather the forthcoming development of multiple hi-rise areas IS aimed at the remaining, fringe liberal held areas of Sydney. As you said - "It makes more sense to stack them into Liberal held seats."
Please go through the rest of it - I'd love to see you explain how de-industrialising Australia has made it stronger. The huge failure here rests upon both political parties that have governed, remember Hockey daring GM-Holden to leave? Disgraceful.
Hi vj,
I posted those election results to show, despite millions of ALP voting migrants coming here, nothing has really changed in 28 years. But if those migrants all vote for the ALP, why did the LNP keep importing people? And don’t forget half of Albo’s one million migrants had their visas approved by the LNP government.
The Hills area around Sydney has been under housing development for the last 15 or so years. Mostly under the control of Liberal Government. Should some 72000 migrants manage to obtain citizenship and enrol to vote, which is unlikely to happen before 2029, given the 4 year residency requirement, the AEC would be required to redraw the electoral boundaries to rebalance the electorates. Sadly, Barrie sees a conspiracy there as well, despite the ALP losing a seat in NSW in the 2024 redistribution.
Barrie also makes numerous unfounded assumptions to support this notion that a global conspiracy is at hand, perpetrated by the left to gerrymander the electorate by immigration. It is complete and utter rwnj fanciful alarmist nonsense.
I never said de-industrialising Australia has made it stronger.
All major nation building initiatives have come under ALP Governments: the Snowy scheme, car manufacturing, Medicare, Superannuation, NDIS and NBN. The LNP have produced nothing.
If they had supported Connor’s plan, we would have had cheap energy for the last 40 years to support manufacturing etc. Instead, the LNP sold off most the power stations in Victoria, SA and NSW, at rock bottom prices.
Howard legislated to ban nuclear power in 1997, so it was logical to pursue a renewable powered grid, and the ALP went down that path. The LNP on the other hand did everything to frustrate the transition, which would have been essentially seamless if Connor’s gas-powered grid had eventuated. But look where we are now. The LNP now want to throw out 20 years of work on renewables and go down the nuclear path with SMR’s, which don’t actually exist yet, with a 20 year lead time and an undefined budget, which like every other nuclear project on the planet, will get blown out of the water.
Howard also sold off NW Shelf gas to the Chinese on a 25 year deal, which returned nothing to Australia. He also sold two thirds of our gold reserves at rock bottom prices.
The rest of Barries presentation is just an attack on Albanese and the ALP. But what his fan club doesn’t realise is if you look beneath the surface the problem is with the LNP, who embarked on a course of obstruction and frustration, who would do anything to undermine the ALP, and never accept any responsibility for their own work (eg The Voice).
I could go on about a host of other points he raises but I have better things to do.
In closing, Dutton is just a shit stirring little urger, who has not offered anything positive or visionary to improve the quality of life for us all, and never will.
Cheers.
Hi SD I'll pay that one, and it's a strong contention that the ALP actually do nation building whereas the Lib record hasn't been so good. I'd like to expand on the car industry. We are the only OECD top 20 nation without a car industry iirc. It speaks volumes to the loss of diverse technical skills and career paths for young people from everything to production to mechanical and systems engineering.
In the 70s we had 9 or more manufacturers and legislation had been setup to encourage local content (GM and Chrysler were reported attaining 95% local parts). Other brands such as Renault and Leyland were manufacturing cars from CKD kits. The early 70s coincided with Australia (and Canada) being seen as the richest nations on earth, when viewed from a resources/land per person perspective, and having a diversified economy to boot. No surprise, the policy makers who set this up had been young adults through the 1920s commodity bust (all eggs in one basket), the 30's Depression, and WW2.
In the early 1980s the ALP government introduced the Button Plan, an attempt to bring Australia's built practices to 'world class'. By the early 70s a new (boomer) generation of motoring scribes had begun attacking local cars for their content, build, use of space - wheras before, the journalists had phrased reviews in terms of how much local content, how it did the job, how the factories were expanding here, and how good it was for Australia. Perception and generational change fed into cultural cringe.
Anyway, the Button plan saw fewer manufacturers, sharing platforms, and going for quality as the way to go; while tariffs were reduced in gradations until 'the open market' forced us to be 'world class'. Think Holden Apollos based off a Camry, and Nissan: The Ute! Which was an XF ute in Nissan badging. Every other country continued to support it's manufacturing industry as we undertook this experiment. Some unremarkable cars were produced, and the smaller CKD manufacturers, like Renault (of which my parents bought one when we got to Australia) closed.
No one reviewed the plan. And so the tariffs continued to drop. The industry warned that it would no longer exist if they continued down below 10%. Many Australians cheered - surely this meant cheaper cars from their offshore brand of choice, when our industry was gone and no longer a tax burden.
Nissan was gone in 91 I think, Mitsubishi (who took over Chrysler's Tonsley Park plant) was gone at GFC time (after what I remember as a particularly hostile campaign in the press - we love to sledge our own), and Ford announced production would stop in 2013, for 2016. Parts suppliers supply all the 3 left, it wasn't long before Toyota (who were exporting well, particularly to the ME with the Camry hybrid platform) and Holden also announced to go. Most of the parts suppliers have gone too. Tariffs kept falling and the plan was not reviewed. In this time Australia produced hybrid cars as above, small cars (Cruze), an SUV (Territory), a small convertible (Capri), our unique Utes and panel vans, and the large family cars we were known for, Falcon & Commodore being like a BMW M5 at $$$ the everyday Australia could afford - if a bit more simple and rugged, no bad thing on a Nullarbor run, which they could do easily. Ford's inline 6 is an absolute gem - now being exported worldwide and dropped into all sorts of performance cars. It will do 500,000km to 1,000,000km unopened. The last SSV Redline Commodores are about the best manifestation of this, and are absolutely world beating in terms of bang for $$$. Interestingly, the press right up till 2017 doubted the local cars were 'world class'.
Government departments buying local and turning over at 3 years produced near new family cars for Australians at very affordable prices.
Since cars have stopped being manufactured in Australia, prices of cars have gone - up. A Corolla which was a 20K car now tips 40K in upper models. Even accounting for inflation, it's more expensive size for $. So yeah, that bit didn't pan out as expected. It seems the local industry kept a lid on overall market pricing and benefited the consumer.
And so it was failure on both sides of politics to review the Button plan, and a general desire not to manufacture from government, that ended it. Countries like Iran now produce over a million cars a year, and we now make some Nissan electric components in Dandenong, and do a local conversion on the big US pick ups. That's it. And it didn't have to be this way.
I think we'll learn, but have to go through the wringer again like 1920-45, to learn it once again.
Hi vj,
Just a few observations and comments on other aspects of Barrie’s presentation.
He’s convinced there is a conspiracy at hand by “they”, presumably the left, to destroy our society.
Make our abundant energy resources expensive, unreliable and politically toxic, he says. War will make energy resources expensive: refer to oil prices pre and post WW1 and 2. In my time the first hit to oil prices was the Saudi Oil Embargo in 1973 where prices quadrupled virtually overnight. The 1979 embargo on Iranian oil also pushed up prices. The LNP killed off Connor’s plan for cheap energy from the NW Shelf, Howard approved a 25 year deal of gas sales to China without any return to Australia, and it was mostly Liberal Governments who sold off State owned power generation and distribution systems. But in both regards the ALP can claim some credit.
He equates high energy consumption with high living standards, but ignores wasteful energy inefficient large homes and promotes excess energy consumption. He demonises renewable energy and the destruction of wildlife but ignores the long list of toxic chemicals produced from burning coal. He mocks the science of Climate Change but ignores the basic physics of CO2.
Thorium based Small Modular Reactors are the answer he claims, but none actually exist yet and are likely to be horrendously expensive if they can be produced.
As for gold, it was Howard who sold off two thirds of our gold reserves at rock bottom prices.
He claims changing locations back to their indigenous names without consultation is racist, but ignores K’gari becoming Fraser Island, Uluru becoming Ayres Rock, and hundreds more examples if you wish. No one consulted the indigenous people. He complains about the naming of a lake after Sikh Guru Nanak, yet he has no problem with Kosciuszko, Strzelecki etc. The complete elimination of indigenous culture is ok by Barrie.
As for ALP vote stacking by immigration here are some figures:
Enrolled Voters 1998, 12 million, with a total population of 18.6 million
Enrolled Voters 2022, 17.3 million, with a total population of 26 million.
ALP Primary vote 1998 was 40% = 4.8 million, ALP Primary vote 2022 32.5% = 5.6 million.
Given Australia’s low birth rate, ageing population and high immigration rate you could estimate the increase in enrolled voters at 70%. So, with an increase of 3.7 million migrants only 800,000 voted for the ALP, nationally. His argument is outrageously absurd, but willingly taken on by his followers.
He targets Albanese on immigration, and ignores the LNP doing the same thing for a much longer period. He attacks Albanese over “The Voice” Referendum, when it was an election commitment he upheld, and ignores the LNP’s complete about-face declaring it “Labor’s Racist Voice” despite having produced the proposal as presented for public review.
Then he has the gall to declare “Australian society, culture, history, freedom and wealth are being wiped from the planet earth”.
As for Digital Identity, it started life under an LNP government in 2015 and the extended use of it has been the subject of much debate. I’m all for it. A few years ago, I had to send certified copies of passports, drivers licenses etc, by post, to my Super Fund: what could possibly go wrong!!!!
Finally, the LNP have been in power for 51 of the 78 years since the end of WW2. If you wish to point fingers at those responsible for the debacle of the last 50 years, most will be aimed at the LNP.
That’s enough!!!
Cheers.
Australia generates around 35% of its energy through renewables. Gas is 17% and coal 46%. Government set the target to achieve 82% renewables by 2030. I find that interesting as 82% of renewables + existing 17% of gas equals give or take 100%. So there is obviously no plan to build any significant gas or coal capacity.
I find these targets to be very extreme. It won’t happen. Honestly, I don’t know who’s advising these politicians? Someone very clever taught me that goals without a plan are a wishlist. This is exactly what this is. And even when you have a plan, projects blow out. Especially something of this magnitude.
Considering our national resources of gas we should significantly increase the gas capacity. It’s ludicrous that we sell it so cheaply and use so little domestically. Barrie is right to call this out in his speech. Biogas is another one that we can easily produce. We should flood the market with cheap gas energy in combination with steady transition to renewables. Everything else is propaganda, populism, smoke and mirrors kind of stuff.
And rather than just me rambling let’s look at some examples:
- California, US state which is the most similar to Australia from the governance perspective. They have a big push on renewables and they are ahead of the game when compared to Australia. Around 50% is renewable and the rest is gas with 2-3% coming from one nuclear plant. Goal for 2030? 60% renewables. That sounds reasonable and feasible. We should simply follow California’s model.
- let’s talk about ‘Dunkelflaute’. German for dark doldrums. Just a few days ago electricity prices in Germany peaked above 1,000 eur per mWh. I’ll repeat that, 1,000 eur per mWh. It was the result of weak renewables input in combination with weak coal/gas input. While these problems in Australia only get attention when our air conditioning doesn’t work (or expensive), in industrial power like Germany this a major manufacturing issue. Residents are mostly shielded from these shocks but manufacturers have to stop the operations to minimise the impact. Here’s a good resource on the situation - https://www.cleanenergywire.org/news/short-term-power-prices-spike-amid-...
In summary, here’s a snip from the article - ‘After a longer ‘Dunkelflaute’ in early November, energy industry representatives warned that the country urgently needed to make progress on installing a new fleet of gas-fired power plants as backup capacity for times of little renewable energy production’
Back home, we have an opposition leader chasing white elephants and ideology instead of pointing obvious flaws in our energy strategy. He could easily go to the election while pointing to two advanced (well, more advanced than Australia, they are ahead of us) markets - California and Germany as models for future strategy. Take their lessons learned, invest into what worked and don’t do the mistakes they did. Admit that getting to 82% renewables in the next 5 years will result in enormous amount of suffering with questionable chances of success. Promote local manufacturing where required. Subsidise it where required.
On the other side, we have a PM whose ego and short termism won’t let him drop that ridiculous target. But lucky for him, he’s running against an idiot so he will probably survive.
And finally, Barrie talked a lot about energy in that speech but most of it is fluff. I don’t like that defeatism. Everyone rational will acknowledge great achievements that country achieved with renewables. We still have a lot to do but we also progressed a lot from where we started. And you should at least acknowledge that. He chose to go into this extreme hyperbole while true, valuable content could be summarised on one pager. And unfortunately, this kind of propaganda is what Dutton listens to.
I’m not savvy on this but wouldn’t it make sense for the Govt to buy out and become at least a 51% share holder in Woodside etc.
Then we could switch some of the off shore contracts to local use and pipe LNG around Australia which burns clean for industry and back up power generation to top up renewables on demand.
We could also run cars on it and yes you can buy LNG cars as well as prime movers and also produce LNG electric hybrids here in Australia.
LPG cars also burn 80% cleaner so why aren’t they in the mix seeing as we have so many easily converted petrol cars…..you want zero emissions ….lets talk about refitting petrol cars to LPG.
BIO LNG and LPG from waste will also soon be a thing as it’s already being toyed with.
Dutton is thinking 80 years ahead but forgetting in 80 years time (if we are all still here ) and probably much sooner there will be a much more advanced energy source than old school nuclear by then.
It will just be another dinosaur to bury deep…..on someone’s land.
We all know gas burns clean and we have 300 years of it so why not bless business and the public with cheap govt supplied energy so we can get on with life without the hassle until someone invents something better and cleaner.
Plant trees …..use our own gas cheap….dont give it all away for others to use….
They have Qatar etc for that.
That is all.
whilst I don't disagree with most of what you wrote saltyone
you write this as if it's some kind of proof of...
well something...
"...As for ALP vote stacking by immigration here are some figures:
Enrolled Voters 1998, 12 million, with a total population of 18.6 million
Enrolled Voters 2022, 17.3 million, with a total population of 26 million.
ALP Primary vote 1998 was 40% = 4.8 million, ALP Primary vote 2022 32.5% = 5.6 million.
Given Australia’s low birth rate, ageing population and high immigration rate you could estimate the increase in enrolled voters at 70%. So, with an increase of 3.7 million migrants only 800,000 voted for the ALP, nationally. His argument is outrageously absurd, but willingly taken on by his followers..."
absurd indeed
all that proves is, people aren't buying the dubious elixir the labor party are selling...
in copious numbers
it does nothing - absolutely nothing - to prove that labor aren't drunk on their own vote stacking elixir...
now, just imagine if they weren't stacking it?
30% primary vote is damning reflection of their non mandate - for anything
you don't have to go all barrie like conspiracy to know what they are up to...
be it as a 'core' non promise priority
or a secondary priority...
the truth of the matter is, our politics is dominated by lobby groups and outside influences...
what some have called 'captured democracy'
real estate and business groups aside...
smart people know who, what... 'they' ...are one of the biggest outside influences...
and their website isn't shy about it's position on 'open borders'
labor ((and others) the world over) simply...
-get to (likely) stack their electorate (the internal theory doesn't even dispute this)
-please their biggest influence overlords
-get to tickle their internal ideological proclivities
-and play economical games... facilitating yet another, supposed non recession...
a win win win win
of sorts...
you can brush it off as conspiracy all you like
OK, a couple more.
He clearly doesn’t understand how the Future Fund works. It has always sought returns 4% to 5% above the inflation rate, and Chalmers has requested the Board of Guardians to consider investment in certain areas such as housing in several years time. Also investment returns from the fund not only provide for PS Super but also medical research, infrastructure, drought relief etc.
Refer to Wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Future_Fund
He also attacks compulsory superannuation, which by the way, means I and many others don’t need a taxpayer funded retirement. Property investment is predominantly Commercial and investment in Australian stocks is somehow depicted as detrimental to Australian housing. Super funds are “all in on the Ponzi”, he claims, “Every month, that’s billions of dollars bidding up the very system that’s locking Australians out of housing”. Billions and how??? Compared to the US S&P 500, the ASX200 has had a shocker of a year.
The more you read the crazier the allegations become.
Salty, yes attacking super is very stupid. It’s one of the best pension schemes in the world. This is literally the last thing anyone should complain about.
An expert on the ABC yesterday, from the Victorian energy institute, was
saying that the costing estimates to establish
Nuclear Energy in Australia,
we’re impossible to calculate from either side of politics, because there were too many
unknown, unknowns.
I agree with posts above
ol' barrie let's too much of his ideological colours fly
ie. energy abundance, anti renewables, anti super etc...
good on him for letting loose... personally I'm happy we've entered an age where people aren't so cagey as they once were...
but a couple of observations:
in this new age... the twumpy right really let's loose, seemingly emboldened by twumpyness - and a misguided belief the vast majority are all onboard...
it's simply not true, the key issues the majority are clearly onboard, but when old school righties get a bit excited and go all trumpy and stuff, it just doesn't work, morrison and dutton are prime examples...
the old guard lefties, not the union old guard, but the new old guard... the contemporary wokesters neoliberal elites... or whatever they are...
are cagey, and lying... more than ever...
the issues:
- super is good (even if I am powering blackrock)
...more good than bad...
- the anti-renewables brigade are truly nutty
pure ideological opposition, an angry vehement, deep opposition, that defies logic - straight up negative nutty...
barrie appears to be one
(unfortunately many lefties are now counted and caught up in this blob - as social license issues, and overreach of labor zealotry comes into play)
- barrie has a point re. abundance, any thinking ozzie knows we are being tricked, scammed, and rorted... from both directions...
and that we are / could be / should be an energy superpower... both parties have simply fucked this up...
barrie's case has pull, because of current conditions... but also because of a lack of any past conviction or credibility from labor, as they tut tut the peasants...
yet again...
Exxotixjeff wrote:An expert on the ABC yesterday, from the Victorian energy institute, was
saying that the costing estimates to establish
Nuclear Energy in Australia,
we’re impossible to calculate from either side of politics, because there were too many
unknown, unknowns.
ABC= Absolute Bullshitting Coonts
[L] Nation Building Record
STOP THE TRAINS : Rail Freight Increase in Transport Volumes (Billion Tonne-Kms)
[L] 1996-2007 (150-220 = Howard moved an extra 70 BTkm)
ALP 2008-13 (220-370 = Rudd / Gillard moved extra 150 BTkm in half the time) + most Road Freight
2014-2022 (370-455 = Rest of [L] empire could only move an extra 85 BTkm between them)
Push comes to shove > [L] Yuppies can't roll a can of beans down a hill...only get in the way!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rail_transport_in_Australia#/media/File:Fr...
Quite extraordinary that no media notice ALP freighting 5x more timely goods than [L]
Can't exactly hide this extraordinary LNP STOP Australia Moving policy..
[L] Off the Rails
STOP The [L] Inland Rail Rort...
Budget $4.2b Finish 2027 > Reality cheque $31b finish by 2031
STOP THE CARS
380K / yr > Zero
STOP National Hwy Building
2000 [L] Feds 90% States 10%
Post GST = 50% (vs) 50%
2007 [L] Feds 20% (vs) States 80%
STOP The Snowy Rort
2017 = $2b > $4.5b > $5b (2023) $12b (Project is still valued at $3b Energy worth)
https://minister.dcceew.gov.au/bowen/media-releases/joint-media-release-...
Don't start me on [L] NBN
2013 [L] NBN = $29.5b > 2016 (End) [L] Core Promise
2030 [L] NBN = $70b (93% Rollout target) From 2022 [L] Election Promise
[L] 6x Timeline Blowout (3 years 100% Complete) > Reality = 17 years for 93% at best
[L] 2.37x Cost Blowout or 137.3% ($29.5b Total) > Reality = $70b & still be counting 17 years on
# Australia's Product Complexity (Global Rank)
LNP 1996 #58 > 2008 #87 = Lowest freight moved = Howard's Horrific WR productivity #Rank Drop
ALP 2008 #87 > 2013 #94 = Most Freight moved = least drop in rank
LNP 2013 #93 > 2022 #102 = 2nd lowest Freight moved = 2nd highest Oz drop
https://atlas.hks.harvard.edu/rankings
Wanna Know...
If [L] Trend continues Oz will drop 10-15 places in 5 years (Nations that [L] bomb soon surpass Oz!)
Dutto 2nd term = Oz least Complex Nation on the Planet > GST is racing Oz to least productive #145
If ya have to ask why GST then ya shouldn't be voting...
Treasury 2006 : "Productivity Levels in Australian States are disadvantaged because of their distance from Global centres of output and from each other!"
Now check slovenly [L] Freight Records + [L] Complex Productively Collapse = GST Penalty / Fail.
Who the fuck is so stupid to further self Penalize the most Isolated Hell Hole of Blue Planet
World moves neighbour's Mountains from A-B (Tax Free)...can even move ours & do...free of charge!
Oz lumbers own interplanetary distant horizons from A-Z - taxed more for each WR accumulating load!
World buys & sells Tax free Planets at local Mall while Oz goes bankrupt shifting a can of BBQ beans.
Want proof : Right now Oz can't get 412 essential Drugs > Eye Drops / Antibiotics / Saline
That's increasing daily by the way...was only 399 last week...Memo : Don't bug TGA over Xmas period!
https://apps.tga.gov.au/prod/MSI/search/
Imagine GST impost creep for Re-allocating / Re packaging > Re transiting 'basic Chem Meds'...Huh!
Every other Nation has infinite Port choice of infinite Goods to laugh off 50-90% GST = (Zero Penalty)
Whereas Oz Mandates workers to accumulate tax on contrived link-chained shit around our necks!
Shooting both left feet 24/7 everyday Life Sentence...Pay the Accumulating Anti OZ Productivity Tax!
Isolated Oz don't get a choice...Whatever shit we never asked for...we still cop Total Oz tax penalty!
Touch it once & you lose > Touch shit twice & ya gotta sell up > Hands on Oz makes shit up > WR GST.
Most Handy Nation on Earth bar none penalized by furthest reaching time consuming labouring GST
Stop taxing A-Z in Hell hole of Pacific...Rid our WR Iso impost to compete inside the Megaverse!
Logistics record ...Rudd moved Oz up to #3 shipments to bounce-back from GFC > Now ranked #47
https://lpi.worldbank.org/international/global
.........................................................................................................................................................................................
*Summary > #1 World's least productive Govt that moves least shit because of own WR Logistics Tax.
[L] wish to Transit WR Terrorist risk WR distance WR Risk storage WR Policing WR Parts delay
Mandated World Agency premium WR Safety compliance for Strictest WR protocol WR build delay.
Zero cheaper Oz isolated penalized quotes...WR [L] Premium Rort GST Blowout or Abort Now.
Reminding to check [L] WR Logistics Failures on this scale...That's a WR Omen...
Pathetic WR Logistic [L]osers are well outta their league...No Alarm can ring loud enough!
This is road to hell stuff...ain't no coming back from mandated WR [L] Shitshow of a WR [L] Shitshow!
Still think tbb is having a crack for a laugh...Please give this some thought...just for a sec!
If this Nuke deal is a PREMIUM Deal breaker...
Ask why not one expert has mandated GST free National Significant Project...Huh!
If this was the real deal than call it out...GST FREE or it's dead in the water...100% crew know this.
Oz can not afford WR GST on WR Premium Escalating outta control Highest Risk Scale Taxing
Why! Coz it's fucking Off the Charts Mental by worst performing Logistics Govt in World History.
Please no one let WR Nation destroying dividing [L] Evil Warmongering Kooks near this Toxic payload.
..........................................................................................................................................................................................
[L] Televangelist Dutto's Ungodly Nuke WMD Plan
$331b powers 38% of Oz Homes / 25 years....
38% of 10,852,208 Homes = 4,123,839 homes
($80,265 to raise/erase each [L] Nuclear Family Home)
(Current Market Forces)
Dutto's $80,000 handout buys 100KW Solar system = Enough to power 30 homes freely for 25 years
Don't need any analyst ...can plug it in next week...
No need to ransom 20-30 years of WR High level fear thru every nation Gloving tongs in thongs!
If Liberals let market decide & gave each of us Aussies their fair equal $80k share...
ALP $80,000 Solar Home could power 30 Liberal Nuclear Families freely from next week for 25 years.
Sure...can still Vote for 8x more hopeless [L] PMs without voiding yer Solar Plan...knock yerselves out.
..........................................................................................................................................................................................
[Disclaimer] tbb powers 20% of his home on Howard's 2007 Solar Plan + 1,300 ALP Credit...
Meaning > Pay much more for Bodycorp / Rates / NBN / Water Bills than Power...They owe tbb $500?
Feel guilty that Howard's rushed [L] Solar program killed more tradies than Pink Batts scheme...
tbb recalls waiting a long time for rare qualified Interstate Installer in extreme short supply.
Howard took our money but withheld around 85% Customer's (tbb's) Solar Hot Water Systems..
None were rebated the $500 Hot water after his sudden disappearance >
Rudd moved onto new Solar / batts scheme!
Anyhow the 2007 1KW System still works fine & saves 20% off Bill.
tbb apologizes for wot role he played in these early Climate Policy deaths...
Howard's more horrific unspoken Solar Tragedies led to intro of Roof Harnessing / Rail Guards.
Howard self exempts from Royal inquires but tbb salutes Aussies giving all on the Frontline...{R.I.P}
(Open Tradie Tribute)
These forgotten tradies pioneered safety for Today's Renewables...Today we salute brave Sacrifice!
Brave they were...very few raced to take their place...that must be said...
Know well of similar a/c installers > Uncharted territory of impossible tasks in highest risk setting!
tbb would cart 50 x (2x 6m x 1.2m Plaster sheets) over planks up multi-levels
Was made aware of heavier fixed installs by younger mate near killing himself, busting his body up - sad to see.
These crews gotta summon up impossible Herculean Strength & bravado of new skill-set each time!
Us innocent folk just assume these heavy contraptions balance on roof tops with impossible Skyhooks.
tbb is a tradie of 25 years & knows these were frontline brave souls carrying the weight of the Nation!
Expect this...
Dutto goes spazz over one Chinese Cam in Parliament
Imagine Voldemort's rage if just one tiny small Nuke component was sourced from China...Huh!
Not one Chinese Tradie / EV Car will be permitted near these National #1 Aukus secured Plants.
The whole 7 Nuke Plant network is at risk 24/7 of being sabotaged for whole next 25 years.
Then every waking hour thru operation...Imagine the Media grilling a Chinese Carpet Cleaner.
Where is [L] plan to secure each nut & bolt ...free from Chinese Hands...
100% Screening every Ship origin + ID every work crew on every Ship importing Oz Nuke Gear
Coz if just one Chinese screw came loose then it would spark a major International incident.
Every single Port Train & Truck mirrored underneath...
Oz would need Rail / Transit Staging Depots for each Nuke plant
Xray & open every box off site until cleared then double Pack & Handle onto each Site.
Nuke workforce mandate would involve every citizen to Report any Chinese in these towns...
Was the Spy holding a Spanner or a hose...was he wearing Hi Viz / Hard hat...or holding a clip board...
Now consider the cost blowout by refusing Chinese Components / Parts...
These are Premium prestige Aukus Gold Mine rorts secured by Defence contractors
Who else can Bio screen Borders for Potential Chinese / Russian Nuke contamination sabotage.
Why not then simply ask if Dutto is fine with Chinese Nuke Contracts with Russian Components...Huh!
Not gonna happen...media are gutless, toothless Lib arse lickers.
As said if just one Chinese Part slides thru > Dutto is #1 Hypocrite...
If Dutto fails to secure these sites then his whole existence is a lie!
Then Chinese can install cams in his office...Why the Fuck Not? (True!)
How about the Media ask the one simple Question..
Q : Will these Nuke Plants risk sourcing Chinese / Russian made Sabotaged Components.
If so...
Why is Dutto so keen to unconditionally breach Trade embargo to assist latest Russian Nuke tech.
If not...
Then have Dutto prove how Oz Govt can verify Plants are free from Sabotage with legit Agency Tick!
Either way it's a 24/7 Whole new Priority Portfolio that dwarfs Defence...
How to secure Southern Hemispheres Largest Explosive bomb network.
Until now...Oz has nothing worth Sabotaging...but Now we got #1 Southern Hemisphere's Targets!
Chinese need only leave a Chop stick on site > Dutto would need to Shut down All his Plants.
Chop Stick Royal Inquiry...How was this breach allowed to happen! Welcome to yer new world Oz.
Everyday is Dutto fear factor [11] Day..."Dictator Dutto's Dreamworld"
"The Chop Stick incident was an act of Aggression...We must retaliate with a Nuke Sub Strike!"
Team Oz Jocks...Fuck Yeah > Polls Skyrocket > Smash the Red Menace Dutto!
Are we all on the same page here...25 years of Dictator Dutto ...US Southern Hemisphere Sheriff!
sypkan wrote:whilst I don't disagree with most of what you wrote saltyone
you write this as if it's some kind of proof of...
well something...
"...As for ALP vote stacking by immigration here are some figures:
Enrolled Voters 1998, 12 million, with a total population of 18.6 million
Enrolled Voters 2022, 17.3 million, with a total population of 26 million.
ALP Primary vote 1998 was 40% = 4.8 million, ALP Primary vote 2022 32.5% = 5.6 million.
Given Australia’s low birth rate, ageing population and high immigration rate you could estimate the increase in enrolled voters at 70%. So, with an increase of 3.7 million migrants only 800,000 voted for the ALP, nationally. His argument is outrageously absurd, but willingly taken on by his followers..."
absurd indeed
all that proves is, people aren't buying the dubious elixir the labor party are selling...
in copious numbers
it does nothing - absolutely nothing - to prove that labor aren't drunk on their own vote stacking elixir...
now, just imagine if they weren't stacking it?
30% primary vote is damning reflection of their non mandate - for anything
you don't have to go all barrie like conspiracy to know what they are up to...
be it as a 'core' non promise priority
or a secondary priority...
the truth of the matter is, our politics is dominated by lobby groups and outside influences...
what some have called 'captured democracy'
real estate and business groups aside...
smart people know who, what... 'they' ...are one of the biggest outside influences...
and their website isn't shy about it's position on 'open borders'
labor ((and others) the world over) simply...
-get to (likely) stack their electorate (the internal theory doesn't even dispute this)
-please their biggest influence overlords
-get to tickle their internal ideological proclivities
-and play economical games... facilitating yet another, supposed non recession...
a win win win win
of sorts...
you can brush it off as conspiracy all you like
Well it proves Barrie's claims are complete rubbish.
And the Liberal Party vote has gone nowhere.
@sypkan
” - barrie has a point re. abundance, any thinking ozzie knows we are being tricked, scammed, and rorted... from both directions...
and that we are / could be / should be an energy superpower... both parties have simply fucked this up...
barrie's case has pull, because of current conditions... but also because of a lack of any past conviction or credibility from labor, as they tut tut the peasants...
yet again..."
It was largely the State Liberal Governments in Victoria and NSW which sold off the generation and distribution systems, though Labor under Kenneally can claim credit for one.
Another notable point on Barrie’s comments on housing.
Under the Abbott and Turnbull Governments there was no dedicated Minister of Housing. It may have formed part of another portfolio, but they clearly didn’t see Housing important enough to warrant its own Ministry.
And I found this.
Media Release by The Hon Brendan O’Connor MP
1 February 2013
Tony Abbott demonstrated his lack of understanding of the real pressures facing Australian families and households with his failure to mention housing affordability or homelessness in his half-hour speech to the National Press Club, Minister for Housing and Homelessness Brendan O’Connor said today.
“Federal Labor has made housing and homelessness national priorities since being elected in 2007,” Mr O’Connor said.
“We have invested an unprecedented $20 billion in housing affordability and homelessness services and programs, and have made a direct financial contribution to one in every 20 homes built since 2008.
“It is clear that will be reversed should the Liberals be elected in September. Mr Abbott has signalled a return to the decade of neglect under the Howard government, when $3.1 billion was ripped out of public housing and homes were allowed to fall into disrepair.
“With so many former Howard government Ministers on Mr Abbott’s frontbench, and with so many references to the Howard years in yesterday’s speech, it is clear that the housing sector would again be stranded in the political wilderness under the coalition.
“Indeed, you only have to look at what the conservative governments in Queensland, New South Wales and Victoria are doing to public housing tenants to see where the federal coalition would head if in power.”
Under federal Labor, 21,000 social housing homes have been built around the nation, 11,000 affordable rental homes have been built with another 30,000 in the pipeline, and homes are being built faster in growing regional areas.
“Federal Labor has also invested $5.6 billion in homelessness services and programs – an investment which has already seen a 13.5 per cent drop in the rate of rough sleepers and a 23 per cent rise in the number of people in supported accommodation,” Mr O’Connor said.
“Our partnership with the States and Territories on homelessness is due to expire on 30 June.
“I am currently negotiating an interim 12-month agreement with my State and Territory counterparts to keep services open while a new long-term deal is struck.
“Mr Abbott has been silent on the future of these vital services for our most vulnerable Australians.
“It appears the only certainty for these people and the dedicated and compassionate workers who help them is that a coalition government would have no interest in them.”
Housing was not a high priority on the LNP agenda.
No surprise there.
The LNP have seen poverty and homelessness as a moral issue as opposed to an economic or social issue for at least 30 years.
The poor deserve their lot because they are lazy spendthrifts who make bad decisions.
Vic treasurer resigns, state is in economic basket case debt with ratings agencies circling
flollo wrote:velocityjohnno wrote:Excellent Flollo, thank you for taking the time to respond. You and I both were immigrants at one stage, probably coming from places with greater economic complexity and manufacturing... as such we have a view as if looking in from outside; what would we want for Australia & our kids' futures if we wanted the best for it, given what we know of the places we come from?
We want the future where our kids don't have to leave the country to follow certain professions. Or even if they can get some local jobs in their chosen fields, meaningful career opportunities and progression are often based overseas. As a country, we are slowly but surely moving into this direction. As a father of 3 boys I often think about this. I believe there are very slim chances that all 3 remain in Australia.
Agree - my boys are grown up now. This country was everything my parents' world envisaged, only tip it upside down. I have one in the trades and this is going very well for him. I am concerned for my biomed undergraduate. The study my parents were happy to see me do, didn't immediately pay off - but working on mines did. And now I have those skills for my own use, anyway.
I'll try to catch up read the rest as I get a chance.
A Salty Dog wrote:velocityjohnno wrote:A Salty Dog wrote:velocityjohnno wrote:Hi SD, my interpretation of what he said was not that it was inner ALP seats that got stacked, but rather the forthcoming development of multiple hi-rise areas IS aimed at the remaining, fringe liberal held areas of Sydney. As you said - "It makes more sense to stack them into Liberal held seats."
Please go through the rest of it - I'd love to see you explain how de-industrialising Australia has made it stronger. The huge failure here rests upon both political parties that have governed, remember Hockey daring GM-Holden to leave? Disgraceful.
Hi vj,
I posted those election results to show, despite millions of ALP voting migrants coming here, nothing has really changed in 28 years. But if those migrants all vote for the ALP, why did the LNP keep importing people? And don’t forget half of Albo’s one million migrants had their visas approved by the LNP government.
The Hills area around Sydney has been under housing development for the last 15 or so years. Mostly under the control of Liberal Government. Should some 72000 migrants manage to obtain citizenship and enrol to vote, which is unlikely to happen before 2029, given the 4 year residency requirement, the AEC would be required to redraw the electoral boundaries to rebalance the electorates. Sadly, Barrie sees a conspiracy there as well, despite the ALP losing a seat in NSW in the 2024 redistribution.
Barrie also makes numerous unfounded assumptions to support this notion that a global conspiracy is at hand, perpetrated by the left to gerrymander the electorate by immigration. It is complete and utter rwnj fanciful alarmist nonsense.
I never said de-industrialising Australia has made it stronger.
All major nation building initiatives have come under ALP Governments: the Snowy scheme, car manufacturing, Medicare, Superannuation, NDIS and NBN. The LNP have produced nothing.
If they had supported Connor’s plan, we would have had cheap energy for the last 40 years to support manufacturing etc. Instead, the LNP sold off most the power stations in Victoria, SA and NSW, at rock bottom prices.
Howard legislated to ban nuclear power in 1997, so it was logical to pursue a renewable powered grid, and the ALP went down that path. The LNP on the other hand did everything to frustrate the transition, which would have been essentially seamless if Connor’s gas-powered grid had eventuated. But look where we are now. The LNP now want to throw out 20 years of work on renewables and go down the nuclear path with SMR’s, which don’t actually exist yet, with a 20 year lead time and an undefined budget, which like every other nuclear project on the planet, will get blown out of the water.
Howard also sold off NW Shelf gas to the Chinese on a 25 year deal, which returned nothing to Australia. He also sold two thirds of our gold reserves at rock bottom prices.
The rest of Barries presentation is just an attack on Albanese and the ALP. But what his fan club doesn’t realise is if you look beneath the surface the problem is with the LNP, who embarked on a course of obstruction and frustration, who would do anything to undermine the ALP, and never accept any responsibility for their own work (eg The Voice).
I could go on about a host of other points he raises but I have better things to do.
In closing, Dutton is just a shit stirring little urger, who has not offered anything positive or visionary to improve the quality of life for us all, and never will.
Cheers.
Hi SD I'll pay that one, and it's a strong contention that the ALP actually do nation building whereas the Lib record hasn't been so good. I'd like to expand on the car industry. We are the only OECD top 20 nation without a car industry iirc. It speaks volumes to the loss of diverse technical skills and career paths for young people from everything to production to mechanical and systems engineering.
In the 70s we had 9 or more manufacturers and legislation had been setup to encourage local content (GM and Chrysler were reported attaining 95% local parts). Other brands such as Renault and Leyland were manufacturing cars from CKD kits. The early 70s coincided with Australia (and Canada) being seen as the richest nations on earth, when viewed from a resources/land per person perspective, and having a diversified economy to boot. No surprise, the policy makers who set this up had been young adults through the 1920s commodity bust (all eggs in one basket), the 30's Depression, and WW2.
In the early 1980s the ALP government introduced the Button Plan, an attempt to bring Australia's built practices to 'world class'. By the early 70s a new (boomer) generation of motoring scribes had begun attacking local cars for their content, build, use of space - wheras before, the journalists had phrased reviews in terms of how much local content, how it did the job, how the factories were expanding here, and how good it was for Australia. Perception and generational change fed into cultural cringe.
Anyway, the Button plan saw fewer manufacturers, sharing platforms, and going for quality as the way to go; while tariffs were reduced in gradations until 'the open market' forced us to be 'world class'. Think Holden Apollos based off a Camry, and Nissan: The Ute! Which was an XF ute in Nissan badging. Every other country continued to support it's manufacturing industry as we undertook this experiment. Some unremarkable cars were produced, and the smaller CKD manufacturers, like Renault (of which my parents bought one when we got to Australia) closed.
No one reviewed the plan. And so the tariffs continued to drop. The industry warned that it would no longer exist if they continued down below 10%. Many Australians cheered - surely this meant cheaper cars from their offshore brand of choice, when our industry was gone and no longer a tax burden.
Nissan was gone in 91 I think, Mitsubishi (who took over Chrysler's Tonsley Park plant) was gone at GFC time (after what I remember as a particularly hostile campaign in the press - we love to sledge our own), and Ford announced production would stop in 2013, for 2016. Parts suppliers supply all the 3 left, it wasn't long before Toyota (who were exporting well, particularly to the ME with the Camry hybrid platform) and Holden also announced to go. Most of the parts suppliers have gone too. Tariffs kept falling and the plan was not reviewed. In this time Australia produced hybrid cars as above, small cars (Cruze), an SUV (Territory), a small convertible (Capri), our unique Utes and panel vans, and the large family cars we were known for, Falcon & Commodore being like a BMW M5 at $$$ the everyday Australia could afford - if a bit more simple and rugged, no bad thing on a Nullarbor run, which they could do easily. Ford's inline 6 is an absolute gem - now being exported worldwide and dropped into all sorts of performance cars. It will do 500,000km to 1,000,000km unopened. The last SSV Redline Commodores are about the best manifestation of this, and are absolutely world beating in terms of bang for $$$. Interestingly, the press right up till 2017 doubted the local cars were 'world class'.
Government departments buying local and turning over at 3 years produced near new family cars for Australians at very affordable prices.
Since cars have stopped being manufactured in Australia, prices of cars have gone - up. A Corolla which was a 20K car now tips 40K in upper models. Even accounting for inflation, it's more expensive size for $. So yeah, that bit didn't pan out as expected. It seems the local industry kept a lid on overall market pricing and benefited the consumer.
And so it was failure on both sides of politics to review the Button plan, and a general desire not to manufacture from government, that ended it. Countries like Iran now produce over a million cars a year, and we now make some Nissan electric components in Dandenong, and do a local conversion on the big US pick ups. That's it. And it didn't have to be this way.
I think we'll learn, but have to go through the wringer again like 1920-45, to learn it once again.
Hi vj,
An excellent detailed presentation of how things transpired. A small local market didn’t help the economies of scale and while export markets were found it wasn’t enough to keep everything going. We would all be better off had a more concerted effort been made to keep the industry afloat, and I like your optimism but I can’t see any one stumping up the cash to start again. Opportunity gone, likely forever.
Nothing wrong with Australian designed and built. I had an XB Panel Van which took me everywhere for many years. Up the Stuart Highway to Uluru and Alice Springs etc. I even drove it across the bone dry Palmer River when we believed the BP Road map to be accurate and we found ourselves in the middle of nowhere with no defined road or track anywhere to be seen. It was a much better vehicle than the Hillman Hunter Wagon which preceded it, and it rarely missed a beat. We had two VR wagons which just kept going and a 2003 Astra which never had a problem over 15 years.
Fun fact: in 1994 I purchased a Ford Capri for the CEO’s wife: it was hard to get one as they were going out of production but the dealer managed to find one with the requested colour. A couple of years later it had a shunt in the rear and went off to the panel beaters for repair. When they removed the rear bumper, written in mastic on the frame behind it were the words, “The Last One”.
Cheers!
Oh that's epic!
To reindustrialise, we're going to have to do it individually, under the radar and just emerge with productiveness. There's the source of my optimism.
A Salty Dog wrote:Hi vj,
Just a few observations and comments on other aspects of Barrie’s presentation.
He’s convinced there is a conspiracy at hand by “they”, presumably the left, to destroy our society.
Make our abundant energy resources expensive, unreliable and politically toxic, he says. War will make energy resources expensive: refer to oil prices pre and post WW1 and 2. In my time the first hit to oil prices was the Saudi Oil Embargo in 1973 where prices quadrupled virtually overnight. The 1979 embargo on Iranian oil also pushed up prices. The LNP killed off Connor’s plan for cheap energy from the NW Shelf, Howard approved a 25 year deal of gas sales to China without any return to Australia, and it was mostly Liberal Governments who sold off State owned power generation and distribution systems. But in both regards the ALP can claim some credit.
He equates high energy consumption with high living standards, but ignores wasteful energy inefficient large homes and promotes excess energy consumption. He demonises renewable energy and the destruction of wildlife but ignores the long list of toxic chemicals produced from burning coal. He mocks the science of Climate Change but ignores the basic physics of CO2.
Thorium based Small Modular Reactors are the answer he claims, but none actually exist yet and are likely to be horrendously expensive if they can be produced.
As for gold, it was Howard who sold off two thirds of our gold reserves at rock bottom prices.
He claims changing locations back to their indigenous names without consultation is racist, but ignores K’gari becoming Fraser Island, Uluru becoming Ayres Rock, and hundreds more examples if you wish. No one consulted the indigenous people. He complains about the naming of a lake after Sikh Guru Nanak, yet he has no problem with Kosciuszko, Strzelecki etc. The complete elimination of indigenous culture is ok by Barrie.
As for ALP vote stacking by immigration here are some figures:
Enrolled Voters 1998, 12 million, with a total population of 18.6 million
Enrolled Voters 2022, 17.3 million, with a total population of 26 million.
ALP Primary vote 1998 was 40% = 4.8 million, ALP Primary vote 2022 32.5% = 5.6 million.
Given Australia’s low birth rate, ageing population and high immigration rate you could estimate the increase in enrolled voters at 70%. So, with an increase of 3.7 million migrants only 800,000 voted for the ALP, nationally. His argument is outrageously absurd, but willingly taken on by his followers.
He targets Albanese on immigration, and ignores the LNP doing the same thing for a much longer period. He attacks Albanese over “The Voice” Referendum, when it was an election commitment he upheld, and ignores the LNP’s complete about-face declaring it “Labor’s Racist Voice” despite having produced the proposal as presented for public review.
Then he has the gall to declare “Australian society, culture, history, freedom and wealth are being wiped from the planet earth”.
As for Digital Identity, it started life under an LNP government in 2015 and the extended use of it has been the subject of much debate. I’m all for it. A few years ago, I had to send certified copies of passports, drivers licenses etc, by post, to my Super Fund: what could possibly go wrong!!!!
Finally, the LNP have been in power for 51 of the 78 years since the end of WW2. If you wish to point fingers at those responsible for the debacle of the last 50 years, most will be aimed at the LNP.
That’s enough!!!
Cheers.
This is Swellnet's forums at their best, thank you for the great reply. We are all getting our views in, in a respectful manner.
Two points on the gold - one monetary history I read goes as such (rough paraphrase).
The gold peg of $35/oz US was increasingly hard to maintain after 1957 recession, and with Vietnam war expenditure. (remember: gold was the 'tie' to fiat currency that kept countries honest, ie, not to print too much of it).
De Gaulle began to take delivery from the window at the NY Fed. At around the same time in 1968 the peg broke on the LBMA, and gold prices were off to the races. Nixon's solution was to break the gold peg to the USD. The Arab oil sheiks just wanted the same value to be paid for their oil, as they were paid in gold. So they hiked the price in the broken fiat dollars. The result was an inflationary storm of a decade with huge
commodities runs.
And yes, Howard sold the gold off mid/late 90s - same time as Telecom, CBA. He was doing that to clear the government debt that had been accrued. Gordon Brown of the UK did this as well, and timed the bottom so brilliantly it's been named 'Brown's Bottom'. I read a rumour once that someone big needed collateral but take that as internet furphy rumour.
Gold holds fiat currency creation to account, always.
Optimist wrote:I’m not savvy on this but wouldn’t it make sense for the Govt to buy out and become at least a 51% share holder in Woodside etc.
Then we could switch some of the off shore contracts to local use and pipe LNG around Australia which burns clean for industry and back up power generation to top up renewables on demand.
We could also run cars on it and yes you can buy LNG cars as well as prime movers and also produce LNG electric hybrids here in Australia.
LPG cars also burn 80% cleaner so why aren’t they in the mix seeing as we have so many easily converted petrol cars…..you want zero emissions ….lets talk about refitting petrol cars to LPG.
BIO LNG and LPG from waste will also soon be a thing as it’s already being toyed with.
Dutton is thinking 80 years ahead but forgetting in 80 years time (if we are all still here ) and probably much sooner there will be a much more advanced energy source than old school nuclear by then.
It will just be another dinosaur to bury deep…..on someone’s land.
We all know gas burns clean and we have 300 years of it so why not bless business and the public with cheap govt supplied energy so we can get on with life without the hassle until someone invents something better and cleaner.
Plant trees …..use our own gas cheap….dont give it all away for others to use….
They have Qatar etc for that.
That is all.
There's actually a domestic gas reservation scheme that can be activated by the energy minister signing a piece of paper. This will require the east coast gas companies to reserve sufficient amount for the domestic market - like WA does (well done Alan Carpenter).
The reservation legislation was setup by Turnbull govt. The minister has not activated the reservation.
As far as LPG and LNG go, we have about 300 years of LNG off the north west shelf. It can be made into CNG and diesels will run on it - much cleaner too as far fewer carbons in the chain. We could run our entire trucking and rail fleet on this. LPG is a byproduct of the refining of fuels. We only have 2 refineries left - Viva at Corio and one up in Brisbane. That's it. I would think LPG as a byproduct would be good for cars in those immediate markets. We built brilliant LPG powered products, the best system was Ford's EcoLPi Falcon.
We also produce E85 which burns much cleaner, and around 2012-14 there were quite a few cars sold here that were 'flex fuel' from the factory - Holden VEII some models, Holden VF MY14, Holden Captiva of similar age, Jeep Grand Cherokees seem to be able to do so 2011ish, maybe some others like Saabs pre GFC? It is possible to run these cars on nearly fully renewable fuels, now.
Future Fund (Politics)
Background...Costello puffs his chest that Sovereign Fund is not to be politicized.
2013 Fund dropped Tobacco > 2016 Libs bought Renewable Shares 2020 Greens ban on Fossils
2024 Libs ban China Shares >
2024 Oz Govt investment Shock : 10x Fossil Fuel funnelers + 11x Israeli Bombers
2024 ALP like (Lib's 2016 commit to Shares in Renewables) + Aged Care / Housing
Costello / Angus call out ALP & Vow to unplug Wind / Sun for more greedy Fuel Burning > WMD
Future Fund ( Renewables) Portfolio
Old school Wind Farms
(1998 Still Operational) Oz oldest Windfarm 8 Turbines (Test Model > soon a Decommissioning Trial)
(2000 Still Operational) 15 Turbines
Can read about these in [ Tilt ] Portfolio (Below)
Not sure if 'Future Fund' assumes all Tilt Renewables
2005 (2008 Operational) Snowtown / 47 Turbines
2009 + Improved 2016 (2020 Operational) Silverton / 58 Turbines
2013 (2015 Operational) Nyngan / Solar
2013 (2016 Operational) Broken Hill / Solar
2016 [L] PM Turnbull committed $800m to QIC Global Infrastructure 'Future Fund
https://www.investmentmagazine.com.au/2016/08/future-fund-invests-in-sol...
To Hire AGL $200m (Partner) to build Solar/Wind Farms >
Operated by [ TILT ] formerly Manawa NZ / Trustpower NZ
PARF : Powering Australian Renewables Fund $2-3b for 10% stake in Oz Renewables
Invests in (Solar) Broken Hill / Nyngan + (Wind Farms) Silverton / Coopers Gap.
2020 Greens want Lib Govt to divest Future Fund shares in Adani Green Washing Energy
https://greens.org.au/news/media-release/future-fund-must-divest-adani
March 2021 [L] PM Morrison invests in 3x Windfarms : Snowtown (Above) + Dundonnell / Liverpool
2016 ( 2021 Operational) Dundonnell / 80 Turbines
2018 ( 2024 Giant Turbines Upgrade Approved) Liverpool / 185 Turbines
(There are few Projects that fall between switch from [L] > ALP)
Clear to all [L] Voters Govt financed & fully endorsed Solar / Windfarm Renewables for 6 years.
Noting Morrison Govt also keenly legislated offshore Windfarms...
Any 2025 [L] Nuke voters will need to denounce their entrenched [L] Govt renewable commitment.
A complete policy back flip...of continuous [L] Govt Renewable Endorsement!
Current ALP Government Renewable Projects
Now under 2012 ALP Clean Energy Finance Corp
( A new FF Contract ) but continues with [ Tilt ] [L] Contracted Portfolio?
https://www.tiltrenewables.com/assets-and-projects/
Well...Corp Quangos are not tbb's cup of Mushies...this being just a intro...crew can wade in deeper.
Seriously does yer head in...so many same like names / mobs feeding off each other's butts...too much!
Wiki do a pretty good job of muckraking thru these Quangos...let them mop or lap this shit up!
Warning...wading thru this crap will actually make ya physically ill...did warn ya...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clean_Energy_Finance_Corporation
That was quick...back so soon...Know how ya feel....already got yer Vomit Bag...hold yer hair if ya like!
Jan 2024 Treasurer Chalmers appoints Greg Combet as FF Chairman
(Read Intro) Libs + Market petition to prioritize FF National Security / Enviro Cred
Nov 2024 Chalmers prioritizes FF Housing / Aged Care + (Renewables just as Libs Turnbull-Morrison)
Probably fair to say Libs considered this some bad arse turning point...ya wish! Just humour them...
Even poor Auntie refused to take the bait...(Actually...not a bad article on the matter...can credit intro!)
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-11-24/future-fund-investments-politics-...
[L] vow to trample nice & invest in evil Toxic Fossil Fuels + WMD to kill more children...Kill Kill Kill!
[L] #1 Policy > Polls Skyrocket!
ALP Promise...
2024 = $230b No Withdrawal of Future fund > 2032 = $380b
That's kinda the elephant that the crew have all been dancing about...
Weird how Media / Wiki ain't done a Chart on Future Fund Renewables
Mostly as it's now the line in the scorching hot sand & that last news article raised the Temp.
Happy to share a quality Wiki companion piece that bookends (Above) > All on the same page!
Future Fund Portfolio seems to skate on thin ice between institutionalized Quango Portfolios.
Kinda like it flew under the radar for Lib's to Exploit (None knew!) but ALP commit & [L] Fire Up.
Think coz it unearths [L] Govt's long commitment to renewables undermining Dutto's message.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renewable_energy_in_Australia
Ted O'Brien bearing the real gift of Dutto’s nuclear plan. Sink your shares into coal mining companies.
UK/US 20-30x Costly Civic Nuke Plants are forever delayed to blowout costs to subsidise the Aukus Subs..
tbb started sniffing about & sure enough they've all been busted with tongues wedged up Whazoos!
This is why both ALP don't care if [L] wins Nuke Power Election...That's the icky Aukus Deal...
Hinkley C $30,290 / home (3m Residents) subsidise + Waste > Fission > Aukus Trident Nuke Subs
Georgia $30,290 / home 1m homes pay Vogtle to porkbarrel Fluor > BWX Betchel > Fuel the Aukus Virginia Subs
Dutto 7 $79,9113 / home (38% Dumbarse Aussies) porkbarrel + Waste Fission Fuels the Aukus Subs
Exactly why Cost of Nuke Plants suddenly skyrocketed & why Oz want Civil Nukes to subsidize Aukus Subs.
https://www.aumanufacturing.com.au/australias-n-subs-approved-as-bechtel...
Recall they wanted 7 subs = 7 plants that's the bottom line > each Plant cost blowout rorts another Sub.
This way Oz Civilians bankroll & support another Sub...Navy are much obliged...Thanks Coal Town.
Same mob that Blowout Georgia Plant are rorting our Subs....all the same Aukus Contracts
US Sub program conveniently stalls until another Nuke Plant can be rorted to bankroll more Subs!
If they can't find one...they renegotiate a new contract with Whoever US Defence appoints...
https://www.enr.com/articles/42675-fluor-out-bechtel-in-at-georgia-power...
https://news.usni.org/2020/02/25/nuclear-reactor-builder-warns-of-loss-i...
This redo / upgrade further delays & bankrolls more Contracts for Subs...nothing special!
So...All the US States know this > Exactly why they needed some exotic Nuke wannabe Dicktator.
Oh Lookie...he comes our extra thick > suck arse Fellow Jocks from Downunder.
Deep South Televangelists Rubbing Hands...Qldurr Ted rides into town on his Rainbow Unicorn.
All start masturbating...Is this a dream...Did this Dope as Shit Qldurr just utter the N....Word...OMG! OMG!
US do not give a shit how ALP or [L] Rort Oz Nukes > Just fuckin' hurry up & massage our Sub Deals!
Sure > Dutto's Plants remove Isotopes & store them in boiling Nitric Acid Tanks (Onsite)
Just as he says...(We'll store waste on site = 4kg of Processed Waste Fission = 1 Bomb Funneled.
It's not Rocket Science...it's simply fleecing dumbarse Voters to sanction & pay for Aukus Subs / WMD.
Dumbarse Crayon Dot 2 Dot Polls Skyrocket..Voldemort has sold a magical pup to Hogwarts.
Feel free to check > Georgia residents are bankrolling Vogtle's contacts for Virginia Peel Sub program.
Residents pay WR Power Bills to keep severely moulting dilapidated makeshift US subs afloat.
That's how we Seppos roll in the Shire...we sure grifted them Dopey Qldurrz...Ain't that right...Ma!
C'mon...please say ya weren't waiting for a Qldurr to set yer all straight...on just how thick we all are!
All smelt poo on Dutto's breath...
UK Hinkley WR Cost Blowout + WR Delays are mandated to Pay for UK Defence KILL KILL KILL Bills.
https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-48509942
Ok! tbb...so how long has this been going on for...Dunno...Ask the Queen...mean't to say Prince Andrew!
1956 Queen signed off on First Civilian Cumbria Nuke Plant that powered UK WMD...
Produced enough Surplus power to Run A Fake Cumbria Civic Nuke Plant to run Defence Bomb Gig.
Enough Civic power to run the speaker on Cumbria's Front Gate also the Emergency Smoko Alarm!
https://cnduk.org/resources/links-nuclear-power-nuclear-weapons/
Turn on yer Telly Ted...
Georgia Nuclear Bill Blowout...6th increase since 2023...
Happy New Year increase
Georgia Newsreader...#@!% Aukus Rort
Ted will explain...
* 2023 Rate Increase
* Fuel Cost Increase
* Plant V Nuke unit 3 increase
* 2024 Rate Increase
* Plant V Nuke unit 4 increase
* 2025 Rate increase
AUD $70/month increase until ya pay for yer $57,000 / home Aukus Nuke bill.
Paying for the same Company's rorted Aukus Subs...you dumbarse Losers...
"Don't touch anything, or light anything up or plug stuff in or turn anything on.
Seal all yer Gaps before turning on the gas...try not to pass on the cost to loved ones!
Ted's slippery slope to Oblivion >>> Oz Voldemort Poll Sky rockets...pick me master!
In other News ~ 1 year into National Party's 1st term > NZ recede into Deepest Darkest Depression...
NZ conservative Govt promise a more Gloomy Clinical Depression by Mid Term...
https://x.com/TheZealNZ/status/1869515702090223787
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-12-19/nz-recession-and-fed-rate-cut-sho...
Oz Lib voters drooling...Voldemort's Sky Poll Skyrockets even higher..."Oh Please Nuke Oz next Master!"
It’s incredible that we literally don’t make anything in Australia.
The US realised this mistake a long time ago and there is a strong momentum to develop certain industries. I’m following some great developments. I would talk about it more in the US thread but that place is way too toxic.
flollo wrote:I would talk about it more in the US thread but that place is way too toxic.
Hey mate, feel free to start a new thread - gimme a yell if you need a hand to do that - as I'd like to hear what you have to say and I also know people like VJ would too.
As mentioned a few weeks back, we're gonna rein in some of the more toxic and monotonous postings of recent times.
You can count on a Qldurr...durr.
Nat senator Mat Canavan says...
* We not Serious!
* Latching on as a Silver Bullet...a panacea!
* Fixes a political issue for us!
* Coalition not serious 'bout Nukes...(Cough!)
* We only sellin' Nukes as a political Fix...(Burp!)
* Dutto's Nukes ain't the cheapest...(Fart!)
* Nukes ain't gonna cut it...(Poo bum wee!)
Keith Pitt...Nah!...Nah!...(still build the dumb shit!)...Fart...
* We're guilty of this too...Yeah Yeah!
Keith..."I'm quiting over the National Party's Energy shitfuckery!"
"Bucket of frustration has now tipped over for me!"
Dutto : "He's an incredibly smart guy!"
Is the mike on...Good...
Nat Leader...Them drowning Fuzzy Wuzzies can peel our Pineapples on our Southern Missions...Burp!
With news of another Gold Standard [L] Nuke Rort...
Dumbarse [LNP] crayon magnon voters are droolin' ...Polls Skyrocket.
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2024/dec/20/matt-canavan-nati...
stunet wrote:flollo wrote:I would talk about it more in the US thread but that place is way too toxic.
Hey mate, feel free to start a new thread - gimme a yell if you need a hand to do that - as I'd like to hear what you have to say and I also know people like VJ would too.
As mentioned a few weeks back, we're gonna rein in some of the more toxic and monotonous postings of recent times.
Hmm I've been holding out on linking the episode of Drawn Together where Captain Hero meets his nemesis, don't know if it would pass after the new rules come in...
Might as well put this up in the politics subforum, to spare the front page. It's 18 months away or so, but here we go.
This is how Dutton wins:
https://www.afr.com/politics/enter-the-liberal-party-working-class-heroe...