The Necessity of Reparation for Historic Injustices
@ A Salty Dog , great post mate . I find it hard to believe ,as a nation , Australia couldn’t give aboriginals the recognition they deserve . There are people that are proud as punch that they voted no . Dutton is a political virus that we don’t need .
Nice work @salty.
No surprises seeing low info posting this shit.
Funny he's a prominent part of this thread, yet i don't once remember seeing him post anything positive about indigenous culture or something we could learn from them. And i think he's a model representative of the standard Aussie bogan that voted NO.
I'm not sure if it's racism. Probably. I think it's deeply ingrained.
But also I think it's just some people have too much time on their hands to post dumb shit for no other reason, that they....are dumb shits.
Low info, continually going lower.
@ A Salty Dog well written thats a +1 from me.
A Salty Dog wrote:indo-dreaming wrote:OK.
The video by Australian Agenda is just complete unadulterated bullshit. Looking at others they have produced it’s safe to assume they are just another disenfranchised bunch of RWNJ’s.
He missed the fact the Voice was a product of the LNP, fully supported by Labor, who had committed to take it to referendum. Upon election to government, the ALP followed through on the commitment it made.
Upon it’s release, the Voice had overwhelming support, which only declined when the LNP started to white ant it’s own work. Racism only reared it’s ugly head when the LNP branded it “Labor’s Racist Voice”. I suspect Ken Wyatt took that as an insult and had no option but to leave the LP, as did several others. There was ample detail available on the Voice website if you could be bothered to read it. The LNP continued to spread all the lies and division they could muster to the point where it was clear the referendum would fail. Since 2007 the LNP has adopted a stance of opposition to everything and that has now morphed into complete disruption. The Voice was no different but the idiots in the LNP failed to realise they were campaigning against their own proposal. Their actions should come as no surprise but it reeks of hypocrisy. Ultimately, the conduct of the LNP turned the referendum into a political argument, which I suspect is precisely what they wanted.
After decades of failed initiatives, the FNP were requested to set out their desired course of action. They requested formal representation to Parliament via the Voice and for Constitutional recognition for FNP. It was always made clear the Voice itself had no legislative power, it was to report to the Parliament who would then debate and vote on and then implement the recommendations.
The argument of creating division by race is fallacious. WE are the intruders. We came into this country uninvited, and proceeded to dismantle 60,000 years of a peaceful culture and take what we wanted. We made the laws to suit the white man (white man, white law, white gun.) and aggressively enforced them on a culture who found it hard to understand.
Constitutional recognition I see as an acknowledgement of the role of FNP in the history of Australia. That acknowledgement to me is not racist and makes not one scrap of difference to my life.
Being the anniversary of the referendum, it has naturally made news headlines again. Sky News have posted numerous videos on YT for the most part gloating over its failure to pass. Those miserable bastards willfully published misleading information and continue to boast of a No victory.
I have made a number of comments on YT videos, and I am in disbelief at the number of people who still believe the Voice was product of only the ALP. Yet these fools would consider themselves to be making an “informed” decision!
We had an opportunity to right the wrongs of the past, and failed miserably. And now we have the No campaigners complaining nothing is being done, yet they offer no constructive input.
In the 78 years since the end of WW2, the LNP, have governed for 51 years, and the ALP for 27. Yet all the major social, economic and nation building (infrastructure) changes have come under ALP government. Some of their proposed initiatives never materialised and we are paying a heavy price for that now. The LNP, have contributed nothing in that time, and have embarked on a path of frustration and disruption. The Voice is a prime example.
Our political leaders are human and will make mistakes. But in every aspect of life in and of this nation, the ALP are the only party prepared to look to the future and initiate change, while the LNP sit back and congratulate themselves for doing nothing, but in reality, are leading us up the road to nowhere.
It's really of no surprise that people like you even with the beauty of a years worth of hindsight wont accept the reality of why it failed, and why the majority of Australians voted NO and you are still spinning the same BS you were a year ago and still mixing up all the issues. of constitutional recognition, the voice, USFTH.
Simply put there was some very greedy activist that wanted it all and ended up with nothing, while if they were smart and not greedy they could have had constitutional recognition and a voice (just not in the constitution)
And no it wasn't an LNP idea, i suggest people actually read through the history here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indigenous_Voice_to_Parliament
And note that in 2017 Turbull the most left wing LNP leader in most of our lifetimes rejected things.
"In October 2017, the then Coalition government rejected the Voice proposal, characterising it as a "radical" constitutional change that would not be supported by a majority of Australians in a referendum"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uluru_Statement_from_the_Heart
And sorry but it started tanking, when people actually started getting more info on it all, and then it was dead and buried once people saw that detail was lacking and that there was all kinds of dodgyness and lies being peddled by a power hungry few.
Anyway i don't want to get in a back and forth on this, its all been said before.
BTW. You clearly dont understand what being a conservative is or conservative governments are about, its about conserving and slowly building on the things we have.
It's like a custom surf board, you take what works in your old board and just tinkering things ever so slightly with the aim of getting the best board possible, and you keep doing this with each new board.
We dont throw away what works and what we value and what has been built up over life times just because some think any change is good or the more change the better.
“ We dont throw away what works and what we value and what has been built up over life times just because some think any change is good or the more change the better.”
^ a more appropriate description in regard to traditional Aboriginal culture ;)
https://m.
&pp=ygUKZ3VycmlkeXVsYQ%3D%3D
I applaud the board metaphor @indo, but as with all these things, who is the 'we'? I think the answer to that, is the point at which certain people's ideologies diverge. It's not a radical divergence. Just a different approach to life.
"We dont throw away what works and what we value and what has been built up over life times just because some think any change is good or the more change the better."
The Yes voters simply thought that FNPs should have a say in the boards that get ordered for them, in a way that can't be changed by popular politics and revolving governments.
Jelly Flater wrote:“ We dont throw away what works and what we value and what has been built up over life times just because some think any change is good or the more change the better.”
^ a more appropriate description in regard to traditional Aboriginal culture ;)
It's not true though there is no real movement to go back to a traditional cultral based lifestyle being a nomadic tribe and going back to living off the land and turning their back on everything white fella has brought be it housing, money, electricity, modern medicine etc
It would actually be cool if there was though, it could be possible in more remote areas of Australia there is even extra food sources these days in camels etc
- the customs of another’s custom board ;)
… what works and what is valued (all stolen, confiscated & destroyed)
- shapers, materials, teachers & shaping bays (all written off and outlawed)
Custom boards banned in a particular style (what has been built up over lifetimes), the skill and language and ceremonial value condemned (forced removal of own personal creations, displacement and extermination)
… just because some think any change is good or the more change the better ;);)
https://m.
&pp=ygUKZ3VycmlkeXVsYQ%3D%3D Sorry Indo couldn't let this pass
"And note that in 2017 Turbull the most left wing LNP leader in most of our lifetimes rejected things."
That's the ex merchant banker who stripped penalty rate's of the lowest paid.
Something doesn't add up?
indo-dreaming wrote:A Salty Dog wrote:indo-dreaming wrote:OK.
The video by Australian Agenda is just complete unadulterated bullshit. Looking at others they have produced it’s safe to assume they are just another disenfranchised bunch of RWNJ’s.
He missed the fact the Voice was a product of the LNP, fully supported by Labor, who had committed to take it to referendum. Upon election to government, the ALP followed through on the commitment it made.
Upon it’s release, the Voice had overwhelming support, which only declined when the LNP started to white ant it’s own work. Racism only reared it’s ugly head when the LNP branded it “Labor’s Racist Voice”. I suspect Ken Wyatt took that as an insult and had no option but to leave the LP, as did several others. There was ample detail available on the Voice website if you could be bothered to read it. The LNP continued to spread all the lies and division they could muster to the point where it was clear the referendum would fail. Since 2007 the LNP has adopted a stance of opposition to everything and that has now morphed into complete disruption. The Voice was no different but the idiots in the LNP failed to realise they were campaigning against their own proposal. Their actions should come as no surprise but it reeks of hypocrisy. Ultimately, the conduct of the LNP turned the referendum into a political argument, which I suspect is precisely what they wanted.
After decades of failed initiatives, the FNP were requested to set out their desired course of action. They requested formal representation to Parliament via the Voice and for Constitutional recognition for FNP. It was always made clear the Voice itself had no legislative power, it was to report to the Parliament who would then debate and vote on and then implement the recommendations.
The argument of creating division by race is fallacious. WE are the intruders. We came into this country uninvited, and proceeded to dismantle 60,000 years of a peaceful culture and take what we wanted. We made the laws to suit the white man (white man, white law, white gun.) and aggressively enforced them on a culture who found it hard to understand.
Constitutional recognition I see as an acknowledgement of the role of FNP in the history of Australia. That acknowledgement to me is not racist and makes not one scrap of difference to my life.
Being the anniversary of the referendum, it has naturally made news headlines again. Sky News have posted numerous videos on YT for the most part gloating over its failure to pass. Those miserable bastards willfully published misleading information and continue to boast of a No victory.
I have made a number of comments on YT videos, and I am in disbelief at the number of people who still believe the Voice was product of only the ALP. Yet these fools would consider themselves to be making an “informed” decision!
We had an opportunity to right the wrongs of the past, and failed miserably. And now we have the No campaigners complaining nothing is being done, yet they offer no constructive input.
In the 78 years since the end of WW2, the LNP, have governed for 51 years, and the ALP for 27. Yet all the major social, economic and nation building (infrastructure) changes have come under ALP government. Some of their proposed initiatives never materialised and we are paying a heavy price for that now. The LNP, have contributed nothing in that time, and have embarked on a path of frustration and disruption. The Voice is a prime example.
Our political leaders are human and will make mistakes. But in every aspect of life in and of this nation, the ALP are the only party prepared to look to the future and initiate change, while the LNP sit back and congratulate themselves for doing nothing, but in reality, are leading us up the road to nowhere.
It's really of no surprise that people like you even with the beauty of a years worth of hindsight wont accept the reality of why it failed, and why the majority of Australians voted NO and you are still spinning the same BS you were a year ago and still mixing up all the issues. of constitutional recognition, the voice, USFTH.
Simply put there was some very greedy activist that wanted it all and ended up with nothing, while if they were smart and not greedy they could have had constitutional recognition and a voice (just not in the constitution)
And no it wasn't an LNP idea, i suggest people actually read through the history here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indigenous_Voice_to_Parliament
And note that in 2017 Turbull the most left wing LNP leader in most of our lifetimes rejected things.
"In October 2017, the then Coalition government rejected the Voice proposal, characterising it as a "radical" constitutional change that would not be supported by a majority of Australians in a referendum"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uluru_Statement_from_the_HeartAnd sorry but it started tanking, when people actually started getting more info on it all, and then it was dead and buried once people saw that detail was lacking and that there was all kinds of dodgyness and lies being peddled by a power hungry few.
Anyway i don't want to get in a back and forth on this, its all been said before.
BTW. You clearly dont understand what being a conservative is or conservative governments are about, its about conserving and slowly building on the things we have.
It's like a custom surf board, you take what works in your old board and just tinkering things ever so slightly with the aim of getting the best board possible, and you keep doing this with each new board.
We dont throw away what works and what we value and what has been built up over life times just because some think any change is good or the more change the better.
https://m.
I focus wrote:Sorry Indo couldn't let this pass
"And note that in 2017 Turbull the most left wing LNP leader in most of our lifetimes rejected things."
That's the ex merchant banker who stripped penalty rate's of the lowest paid.
Something doesn't add up?
He was definitely on the left side of the LNP, but yeah coming in after Abbott made him appear even more so.
He even tried to join Labor.
"Malcolm Turnbull wanted to join Labor
MALCOLM Turnbull wanted to become Kim Beazley's shadow finance minister in the second term of the Howard Government, say high profile Labor members."
https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/malcolm-turnbull-wanted-to-join-labor/...
And there is many threads on this discussion on Quora (so obviously im not alone in this viewpoint)
If you go down the thread you can see there is many seperate threads on this (its not just oner thread)
https://www.quora.com/Was-Malcolm-Turnbull-too-far-to-the-political-left...
A Salty Dog tells it straight & true...well done!
[L] Reffo 1 ( Extort & Hold Fake early Reffo to corruptly enroll 2022 Fed Voters) Busted / Not Banned?
[L] Reffo 2 ( Extort ALP reffo to Bankroll Don't Know Vote No Pamphlets / Gift Wrap Schools) = $Bill?
[L] Reffo 3 ( Dutto's 2025 Election Day Reffo is still in play )
[L] Reffo 4 ( If [L] Elected > Dutto Guarantees a 4th Voice Reffo )
One Year on [L] Claim they hated Voice Reffo so much yet they campaigned for 4 of them = $2bn
Media forgets / forgives & Team to blame the only Honest Pollie that promised one cut price Reffo!
1999 [L] Hate Nukes so much that they alone ban the very mention of Nukes!
Then Waits until Nukes cost the Earth & take longer than time itself to rort record cost blowouts!
Media Forgives [L] & Orders Albo to Rubber Stamp Jet setter Ted's $15K/house Nuke Bill.
2000 [L] PM Howard alone mandates Palestinian Flag Waving in all World's Olympic Stadiums
Media Forgives [L] love of Palestine & Team up to order PM to ban/burn every/any future flag design
7th Oct 2001 [L] PM Howard lies about WMD to Bomb and Kill 3,500 innocents in a foreign land.
Israel holds record of 7th Oct serial invasions, Kidnapping, and killing innocent children...well durr!
Media + [L] Forgives & forgets > Order Govt to award & bankroll serial 7th Oct Killers Israel a holiday!
Dutto conveniently forgets Oz / Israel are #1/2 (7th Oct Serial mass Murderers!)
Would you vote for a coalition of mass killers that reward themselves a Holiday to exempt own War crimes!
Media conspire to gloss over #1/2 Killers by pointing to # 3rd Placed 7th Oct Killer of innocents.
And easily fooled a majority of dumbarse brain dead Aussie Voters...check today's Polls!
Media's love of #1/2 mass murderers win the Holy Grail by exempting never ending pile of dead bodies!
How is it that Oz media + [L] voters forget in order to forgive themselves so to shift blame & win votes!
Each time [L] executive Overrules the Constitution > they further kill off democratic participation
[L] & Media brand their own such cowardly [L] Nazi State Constitutional extortion as Unstrayan...
Then why do same Nazis endlessly exempt only themselves by deflecting blame upon innocents.
No Aussie gives a shit if Dutto Zaps us all...just stop blaming a hungry Child here or in Palestine!
In all time on this planet never seen such cowardly pathetic miserable excuses for Right Wing leaders.
Must have yer brain scooped out to vote for these Mass serial Killers of hungry innocent children.
haha nailed it in one @guysmiley.
@indo wrote 'anyway i don't want to go over this again'....yet here you fucken are!!!!
SR you are clearly after my attention.
Do you want me to post more in the protected thread?
bah!!
https://m.
Tom Calma on 7.30 report discussing the Voice outcome in a very calm manner makes the No campaigner shrills look pretty disgusting IMHO.
14th of Oct : This day in History
* Israel Alienation Day Invades First Australian Alienation Day.
https://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/volatile-australias-new-travel-warni...
* Anniversary of Hate : Voldemort slithers into #1 Mass Killer's Dogsbody on Oz Hate Campaign Trail
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-10-14/peter-dutton-coalition-pass-alban...
* Always was always will be { Hate yer Fuckin' Guts Day }
* Oz sets WR on how low ya can fuckin' go!
tbb vows to protect fellow swellnet frontline mental health supporters on [ Hate yer Fuckin' Guts Day ]
Matters not which brother...all are welcome!
tbb's plea to exempt his apology falls on tone deaf ears!
Seriously guys...tbb don't mean to be so nice, it's nothing personal!
[ Hate yer Fuckin' Guts Day ] support line... [13 11 14]
Alfred, Supafreak, Southernraw, I focus, and tbb: thanks for your kind words.
And that's an epic little piece there from Frank and Bob, GuySmiley!!!
In 1977 my now wife and I drove up to Alice Springs and visited Uluru, Kata Tjuta, Ormiston Gorge and numerous other places. The scenery is simply stunning and it’s easy to understand how these places hold a special significance for our FNP. We walked around Uluru with some indigenous rangers who explained the significance of the natural features and how they were created in the Dreamtime. Such a beautiful story and it’s been handed down to each generation for thousands of years!
A more recent trip in 2018 to the Broome Region saw the same courtesy and friendship extended to us.
After all they have endured, I find that remarkable.
Indo, you missed a few things.
I am well aware of the origins of the Voice, but I specifically referred to the proposal prepared and submitted by the LNP for public review.
We all know why it failed and no one here has confused the issues of constitutional recognition etc. That was performed by the LNP who stirred up a fear campaign on a gullible public.
I read through all the supporting documentation provided and was satisfied the proposal posed no threat to me. I wonder how many No voters took the time to read and inform themselves.
There are many countries who have constitutional recognition of FNP. New Zealand even has seats in Parliament allocated specifically to the Maori. They have a voice IN parliament, and have done since 1867: the nation has not imploded.
Your surfing analogy missed one important point. That custom made board carefully designed and fine-tuned over many years may improve over time, but the LNP still can’t make it through that critical section. Time for a completely new design I’d say.
In surfing terms, the LNP are bit like that guy who paddles all around the line up getting in everyone’s way, making a complete nuisance of himself. When an opportunity arises, he can’t commit, pulls out and makes excuses or blames someone else. Then he gets a wave, but in the process burns another surfer on the inside who sat there waiting fifteen minutes for his turn only to find himself screwed over by an inconsiderate selfish prick who couldn’t give a shit about anyone else.
^ boom
- facts ;)
https://m.
&pp=ygUKZ3VycmlkeXVsYQ%3D%3D
A Salty Dog wrote:I am well aware of the origins of the Voice, but I specifically referred to the proposal prepared and submitted by the LNP for public review.
We all know why it failed and no one here has confused the issues of constitutional recognition etc. That was performed by the LNP who stirred up a fear campaign on a gullible public.
Not trying to get this discussion off track, however a similar issue is happening here in the Illawarra.
In 2021, the LNP drafted and passed the Commonwealth Offshore Electricity Act to legislate the process of identifying zones and overseeing the feasibility and tender processes for offshore wind farms around Australia.
Now that the LNP are in opposition they're hammering Labor over the wind farms - which is their own legislation.
I can totally understand locals opposing wind farms, and for various reasons, but its rank opportunism for the LNP to sidle up to those in opposition. Here's what Andrew Constance wrote yesterday on social media:
"Full marks to Minister Bowen and The Labor MP for Gilmore. Your floating turbines have just sunk and they haven’t even been built. World leading floating turbine builders Equinor and their Australian counterpart Oceanex have just pulled out."
"This pair deserve to go for what they have done to our community. This was never going to be built and all this duo have done is cause division."
"Never going to be built"? So why did the LNP write and pass the legislation? In this way it's not unlike the Voice which had its origins in Abbott's original work yet had to be opposed when the music stopped and they weren't in power.
If people wonder why reform and progress take so long in this country they need look no further than the LNP who white ant everything while in opposition, then do little while in power.
A Salty Dog wrote:Alfred, Supafreak, Southernraw, I focus, and tbb: thanks for your kind words.
And that's an epic little piece there from Frank and Bob, GuySmiley!!!
In 1977 my now wife and I drove up to Alice Springs and visited Uluru, Kata Tjuta, Ormiston Gorge and numerous other places. The scenery is simply stunning and it’s easy to understand how these places hold a special significance for our FNP. We walked around Uluru with some indigenous rangers who explained the significance of the natural features and how they were created in the Dreamtime. Such a beautiful story and it’s been handed down to each generation for thousands of years!
A more recent trip in 2018 to the Broome Region saw the same courtesy and friendship extended to us.
After all they have endured, I find that remarkable.
A Salty Dog. Hi mate.
Nothings changed, as my ex always says, she’s been working with three large groups of FNP west of Cairns for 30 years, they are the most generous people she’s ever met. They’ll give you their last dollar, offer a roof over your head, the list goes on.
I can also recall generosity and kindness , stretching all the way back to Broome 1984.
Watched a great Aboriginal band at the Roebuck Bay Pub on a Saturday night, me and all mates had a skin full, we were on the Bob Hawke Surf Team, the dole payment back then with the added bonus ‘remote area allowance’, yes, it did exist, others will back me on that, was an extra $30 in ya pocket, which meant one additional night at the pub.
After closing time we all start the walk back to Bali Hai Caravan Park at Cable Beach ( the then place where those on the road gathered,, legendary , gone now, bulldozed for that shit fight that’s their now), took the shortcut across the footy oval, here’s two aboriginal women having a full on humdinger of a fight, we rock up, enquire, told to fuck off, I said , ease up. I asked what are you fighting over, one replied , him.
Here’s an aboriginal fella, shit faced, hanging over the waterpipe hand railing, couldn’t scratch himself.
Just before we departed the scene one of my mates said, fuck I’m hungry, let’s get a pizza . We dig in our pockets and find we’ve got little money left after drinking.
The drunk guy pipes up from hanging upside down on the fence as says ‘here, take this $20 bucks add to your money and make sure you bring some pizza back,’ of which we did.
All of us maggoted eating pizza at one end of the oval between the goal posts.
That’s generosity in my books. AW
stunet wrote:A Salty Dog wrote:I am well aware of the origins of the Voice, but I specifically referred to the proposal prepared and submitted by the LNP for public review.
We all know why it failed and no one here has confused the issues of constitutional recognition etc. That was performed by the LNP who stirred up a fear campaign on a gullible public.
Not trying to get this discussion off track, however a similar issue is happening here in the Illawarra.
In 2021, the LNP drafted and passed the Commonwealth Offshore Electricity Act to legislate the process of identifying zones and overseeing the feasibility and tender processes for offshore wind farms around Australia.
Now that the LNP are in opposition they're hammering Labor over the wind farms - which is their own legislation.
I can totally understand locals opposing wind farms, and for various reasons, but its rank opportunism for the LNP to sidle up to those in opposition. Here's what Andrew Constance wrote yesterday on social media:
"Full marks to Minister Bowen and The Labor MP for Gilmore. Your floating turbines have just sunk and they haven’t even been built. World leading floating turbine builders Equinor and their Australian counterpart Oceanex have just pulled out."
"This pair deserve to go for what they have done to our community. This was never going to be built and all this duo have done is cause division."
"Never going to be built"? So why did the LNP write and pass the legislation? In this way it's not unlike the Voice which had its origins in Abbott's original work yet had to be opposed when the music stopped and they weren't in power.
If people wonder why reform and progress take so long in this country they need look no further than the LNP who white ant everything while in opposition, then do little while in power.
Yes Stu, opportunism at its finest.
Constance, like many others, knows all too well his support base won’t correct him and most others don’t fact check. Then you have the issue of a supportive media not wishing to highlight the contradiction.
Our Parliamentarians all swear an oath of allegiance to the reigning monarch: that should be augmented with the obligation to tell “the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth”.
I doubt that would ever see the light of day.
I am surprised we have managed to come this far since Federation despite one major party doing it's utmost to stifle progress at every opportunity.
Cheers.
AlfredWallace wrote:A Salty Dog wrote:Alfred, Supafreak, Southernraw, I focus, and tbb: thanks for your kind words.
And that's an epic little piece there from Frank and Bob, GuySmiley!!!
In 1977 my now wife and I drove up to Alice Springs and visited Uluru, Kata Tjuta, Ormiston Gorge and numerous other places. The scenery is simply stunning and it’s easy to understand how these places hold a special significance for our FNP. We walked around Uluru with some indigenous rangers who explained the significance of the natural features and how they were created in the Dreamtime. Such a beautiful story and it’s been handed down to each generation for thousands of years!
A more recent trip in 2018 to the Broome Region saw the same courtesy and friendship extended to us.
After all they have endured, I find that remarkable.
A Salty Dog. Hi mate.
Nothings changed, as my ex always says, she’s been working with three large groups of FNP west of Cairns for 30 years, they are the most generous people she’s ever met. They’ll give you their last dollar, offer a roof over your head, the list goes on.
I can also recall generosity and kindness , stretching all the way back to Broome 1984.
Watched a great Aboriginal band at the Roebuck Bay Pub on a Saturday night, me and all mates had a skin full, we were on the Bob Hawke Surf Team, the dole payment back then with the added bonus ‘remote area allowance’, yes, it did exist, others will back me on that, was an extra $30 in ya pocket, which meant one additional night at the pub.After closing time we all start the walk back to Bali Hai Caravan Park at Cable Beach ( the then place where those on the road gathered,, legendary , gone now, bulldozed for that shit fight that’s their now), took the shortcut across the footy oval, here’s two aboriginal women having a full on humdinger of a fight, we rock up, enquire, told to fuck off, I said , ease up. I asked what are you fighting over, one replied , him.
Here’s an aboriginal fella, shit faced, hanging over the waterpipe hand railing, couldn’t scratch himself.Just before we departed the scene one of my mates said, fuck I’m hungry, let’s get a pizza . We dig in our pockets and find we’ve got little money left after drinking.
The drunk guy pipes up from hanging upside down on the fence as says ‘here, take this $20 bucks add to your money and make sure you bring some pizza back,’ of which we did.All of us maggoted eating pizza at one end of the oval between the goal posts.
That’s generosity in my books. AW
You paint a humorous picture there Alfred!
And the weather is conducive to continuous rehydration!!
While in Broome we took a tour bus up the Gibb River Road, as far as Tunnel Creek, stopping at a number of other sites along the way. That was a big day!! But the fellow who drove the bus, having lived most of his life in the outback, was able to provide plenty of information on Indigenous culture.
That was a great day, well worth the time and money.
Cheers
stunet][quote=A Salty Dog wrote:I
If people wonder why reform and progress take so long in this country they need look no further than the LNP who white ant everything while in opposition, then do little while in power.
Hear bloody hear Stu!
Spot on.
sypkan wrote:
There's a good argument to alot of that also, and without understanding all the details mentioned there, i'd assume there's merit in alot of those points.
I think i posted a few weeks ago that you had a strong contigent of Indigenous crew being NO voters because of the sentiment that the Voice fell well short of what was required. To which that's a fair argument, but if you don't start somewhere, then maybe you don't start at all? Which we didn't. And so what's changed since?
AlfredWallace wrote:A Salty Dog wrote:Alfred, Supafreak, Southernraw, I focus, and tbb: thanks for your kind words.
And that's an epic little piece there from Frank and Bob, GuySmiley!!!
In 1977 my now wife and I drove up to Alice Springs and visited Uluru, Kata Tjuta, Ormiston Gorge and numerous other places. The scenery is simply stunning and it’s easy to understand how these places hold a special significance for our FNP. We walked around Uluru with some indigenous rangers who explained the significance of the natural features and how they were created in the Dreamtime. Such a beautiful story and it’s been handed down to each generation for thousands of years!
A more recent trip in 2018 to the Broome Region saw the same courtesy and friendship extended to us.
After all they have endured, I find that remarkable.
A Salty Dog. Hi mate.
Nothings changed, as my ex always says, she’s been working with three large groups of FNP west of Cairns for 30 years, they are the most generous people she’s ever met. They’ll give you their last dollar, offer a roof over your head, the list goes on.
I can also recall generosity and kindness , stretching all the way back to Broome 1984.
Watched a great Aboriginal band at the Roebuck Bay Pub on a Saturday night, me and all mates had a skin full, we were on the Bob Hawke Surf Team, the dole payment back then with the added bonus ‘remote area allowance’, yes, it did exist, others will back me on that, was an extra $30 in ya pocket, which meant one additional night at the pub.After closing time we all start the walk back to Bali Hai Caravan Park at Cable Beach ( the then place where those on the road gathered,, legendary , gone now, bulldozed for that shit fight that’s their now), took the shortcut across the footy oval, here’s two aboriginal women having a full on humdinger of a fight, we rock up, enquire, told to fuck off, I said , ease up. I asked what are you fighting over, one replied , him.
Here’s an aboriginal fella, shit faced, hanging over the waterpipe hand railing, couldn’t scratch himself.Just before we departed the scene one of my mates said, fuck I’m hungry, let’s get a pizza . We dig in our pockets and find we’ve got little money left after drinking.
The drunk guy pipes up from hanging upside down on the fence as says ‘here, take this $20 bucks add to your money and make sure you bring some pizza back,’ of which we did.All of us maggoted eating pizza at one end of the oval between the goal posts.
That’s generosity in my books. AW
hahah.. this is australia.. great story @AW.
basesix wrote:AlfredWallace wrote:A Salty Dog wrote:Alfred, Supafreak, Southernraw, I focus, and tbb: thanks for your kind words.
And that's an epic little piece there from Frank and Bob, GuySmiley!!!
In 1977 my now wife and I drove up to Alice Springs and visited Uluru, Kata Tjuta, Ormiston Gorge and numerous other places. The scenery is simply stunning and it’s easy to understand how these places hold a special significance for our FNP. We walked around Uluru with some indigenous rangers who explained the significance of the natural features and how they were created in the Dreamtime. Such a beautiful story and it’s been handed down to each generation for thousands of years!
A more recent trip in 2018 to the Broome Region saw the same courtesy and friendship extended to us.
After all they have endured, I find that remarkable.
A Salty Dog. Hi mate.
Nothings changed, as my ex always says, she’s been working with three large groups of FNP west of Cairns for 30 years, they are the most generous people she’s ever met. They’ll give you their last dollar, offer a roof over your head, the list goes on.
I can also recall generosity and kindness , stretching all the way back to Broome 1984.
Watched a great Aboriginal band at the Roebuck Bay Pub on a Saturday night, me and all mates had a skin full, we were on the Bob Hawke Surf Team, the dole payment back then with the added bonus ‘remote area allowance’, yes, it did exist, others will back me on that, was an extra $30 in ya pocket, which meant one additional night at the pub.After closing time we all start the walk back to Bali Hai Caravan Park at Cable Beach ( the then place where those on the road gathered,, legendary , gone now, bulldozed for that shit fight that’s their now), took the shortcut across the footy oval, here’s two aboriginal women having a full on humdinger of a fight, we rock up, enquire, told to fuck off, I said , ease up. I asked what are you fighting over, one replied , him.
Here’s an aboriginal fella, shit faced, hanging over the waterpipe hand railing, couldn’t scratch himself.Just before we departed the scene one of my mates said, fuck I’m hungry, let’s get a pizza . We dig in our pockets and find we’ve got little money left after drinking.
The drunk guy pipes up from hanging upside down on the fence as says ‘here, take this $20 bucks add to your money and make sure you bring some pizza back,’ of which we did.All of us maggoted eating pizza at one end of the oval between the goal posts.
That’s generosity in my books. AW
hahah.. this is australia.. great story @AW.
check it out ? With your wonderful music nous, you’ll know who said that . AW
sypkan wrote:
Sypkan. Hi mate.
Thanks for the post.
I’m still looking for the fine print that says this guy is representing ‘all’ aboriginal people.
I will keep looking. AW
A Salty Dog wrote:AlfredWallace wrote:A Salty Dog wrote:Alfred, Supafreak, Southernraw, I focus, and tbb: thanks for your kind words.
And that's an epic little piece there from Frank and Bob, GuySmiley!!!
In 1977 my now wife and I drove up to Alice Springs and visited Uluru, Kata Tjuta, Ormiston Gorge and numerous other places. The scenery is simply stunning and it’s easy to understand how these places hold a special significance for our FNP. We walked around Uluru with some indigenous rangers who explained the significance of the natural features and how they were created in the Dreamtime. Such a beautiful story and it’s been handed down to each generation for thousands of years!
A more recent trip in 2018 to the Broome Region saw the same courtesy and friendship extended to us.
After all they have endured, I find that remarkable.
A Salty Dog. Hi mate.
Nothings changed, as my ex always says, she’s been working with three large groups of FNP west of Cairns for 30 years, they are the most generous people she’s ever met. They’ll give you their last dollar, offer a roof over your head, the list goes on.
I can also recall generosity and kindness , stretching all the way back to Broome 1984.
Watched a great Aboriginal band at the Roebuck Bay Pub on a Saturday night, me and all mates had a skin full, we were on the Bob Hawke Surf Team, the dole payment back then with the added bonus ‘remote area allowance’, yes, it did exist, others will back me on that, was an extra $30 in ya pocket, which meant one additional night at the pub.After closing time we all start the walk back to Bali Hai Caravan Park at Cable Beach ( the then place where those on the road gathered,, legendary , gone now, bulldozed for that shit fight that’s their now), took the shortcut across the footy oval, here’s two aboriginal women having a full on humdinger of a fight, we rock up, enquire, told to fuck off, I said , ease up. I asked what are you fighting over, one replied , him.
Here’s an aboriginal fella, shit faced, hanging over the waterpipe hand railing, couldn’t scratch himself.Just before we departed the scene one of my mates said, fuck I’m hungry, let’s get a pizza . We dig in our pockets and find we’ve got little money left after drinking.
The drunk guy pipes up from hanging upside down on the fence as says ‘here, take this $20 bucks add to your money and make sure you bring some pizza back,’ of which we did.All of us maggoted eating pizza at one end of the oval between the goal posts.
That’s generosity in my books. AW
You paint a humorous picture there Alfred!
And the weather is conducive to continuous rehydration!!
While in Broome we took a tour bus up the Gibb River Road, as far as Tunnel Creek, stopping at a number of other sites along the way. That was a big day!! But the fellow who drove the bus, having lived most of his life in the outback, was able to provide plenty of information on Indigenous culture.
That was a great day, well worth the time and money.
Cheers
A Salty Dog. Good stuff, superb part of Australia wonderful locals .
We lived there for 5 weeks up until Xmas that year , had a few days of 3ft surf with big tides and heaps of sea snakes.
One of those guys in my story, he married an aboriginal woman from Broome. Just flew home yesterday, they had to go a week ago because a gas and power company had almost convinced his wife’s parents and larger immediate families to sell their soul for a pittance, she’s a tough cookie and left there with it all sorted.
So, here’s a photo of the sunset at Gantheaume Point, Broome a few days ago. All the best. AW
Uni assignment i did a few years ago. This is my take on things. I'm sure this will ruffle many feathers. I hope so.
Love Blue Diamond x
The Necessity of Reparation for Historic Injustices
Introduction – Compensatory Justice
Disparities between the standards of living of humans on this planet have long been a part of our history on this planet. From the wealthy nations of the West to the developing and undeveloped nations on this globe, the diversity in the quality of life when viewed from a moral standpoint are without a doubt grossly unfair.
In this paper I will look at why historic injustices do require some form of reparation. I take a strong stance that we are more obliged to solve current injustices than to provide reparation for every act of injustice in the past. In doing this I will first investigate the historic injustice of the Aboriginal people of Australia and I will look at the argument that they are entitled to some form of reparation and why.
I will incoroporate some interesting views from Jeremy Waldron, Robert Nozick and others which will help me slowly build to my conclusion that reparation should be in the form of Non Indigenous Australians surrendering some of our priveleges as a form of reparation.
Historic Injustices to Indigenous Australians:
Australia the continent was well inhabited for many years long before white settlement. It is commonly known that in 1788 Australia was colonised as a country under the rule of the British Empire, with total contempt for the fact that it was already inhabited by a native indigenous race of people.
The way the original inhabitants have been treated, including forced assimilation, execution, stolen families and not even allowed to be recognised as citizens for a large part of white Australia’s history are also well known facts. (Poole, 1999,pp114-142)
There exists now a situation where there is a large divide between Aboriginal and non Aboriginal Australian’s that can be traced back to the moment Australia was invaded by English settlers and the brutal and unfair treatment that has followed.
So at this point now, in 2013 what is the just and fair way to make amends for past actions?
I would argue that a moderate to large amount of reparation is overdue for this nation of people, the Aboriginal people. But there are many challenges to this view point especially that of how much reparation, and what sort of compensation.
Past injustices or present suffering?
One of the questions raised in an issue like this is whether it is better to provide compensation or reparation for past deeds, which have already been done in a previous generation and cannot be changed, or whether it is better to now provide assistance to those who are suffering in their current situations and consider that as a form of moral duty.
To understand this we need to delve a little deeper into this issue and hear some differing viewpoints.
Firstly we need to understand what the best way to provide reparation. How do we judge what is the best way of giving back and how much? Jeremy Waldron states “The historic record has a fragility that consists, …in the sheer contingency of what happened in the past” (Waldron,1992,p5 )
This is saying that we can’t trace every single injustice back to the original act therefore reparation for every act would be almost impossible because it would ultimately be guess work.
In this statement he has an objection from Robert Nozick who believes it is in fact possible to address this problem by “changing the present so that it resembles how the past would have looked had the injustice not taken place” (McKenzie, 2013)
This would be a way to ultimately provide maximum reparation, but is it the correct approach? I believe this is a fairly radical approach, although it does have some merits in the fact it would be working in a positive way for indigenous people, I don’t think it is entirely the right way to deal with these issues but it is on the right track.
Waldron argues that it is based on too many unknowns. “The status of counterfactual reasoning about the exercising of human reasoning of human freedom is unclear”(Waldron 1993,p10)
Which leaves the question somewhat open about the sort of reparation that is required, but provides one clear answer to the key question. Both agree that yes, reparation to some extent is required. But how much and in what form?
Another philosopher who leans more towards Waldron’s views is Kymlicka. He is somewhat more straightforward in his assessment that property rights in particular for Aboriginals would create “massive unfairness” and also he maintains the argument “Aboriginal rights must be grounded in concerns about equality and contemporary disadvantage. (McKenzie, 2013) I agree with both these views but I don’t think they provide any active solutions.
The Solution?
So if its not handing back all of Australia’s land to the original inhabitants that is the most appropriate way to deal with past injustices, then what is?
I look at the current country I grew up in, as a white Australian. I ask myself why I never had Aboriginal friends growing up, no understanding of Aboriginal culture and why my basic understanding of Indigenous Australians is mostly 200 years old. I look at our flag, a symbol of a nation that stole a country from its original inhabitants, with no recognition of the Indigenous people at all on it. I see that Australia considered Indigenous people as less than people until only 40 years ago and I see the way that Indigenous Australians live a completely separate life to the way of life I know as an Australian. I see that the only indigenous politician I am aware of is a former Olympian and it is because of this fact of her sporting status that I know this. I see no collective power or representation of Indigenous Australians and I see non Indigenous Australians,( a culture built on a history of stealing a land and mistreating its people) still taking, taking as much out of this land as they can, with little to no regard of sharing or giving to the original inhabitants. I see a government that says lots of words about ‘closing the gap’ and bringing the living standards of non- indigenous and indigenous Australians closer together, but apart from nice words, there is no conviction, no follow through, just assimilation , and all that still remains are injustices.
As stated by Sparrow, “Continuity gives rise to responsibility on part of present generations of Australians for our history”.(McKenzie,2013). Although deeds happened in the past beyond our control, what we do now to either ignore, or rectify these issues will reflect on us in history. So if we choose to do nothing, we are contributing to the history of the mistreatment of non- indigenous Australians. And this is simply unacceptable in my opinion.
Conclusion
So what is fair? I believe that the way forward is a surrendering of some of our privileges as non- indigenous Australians. The simple fact is it was morally wrong without a doubt what has happened in the past. And it is also morally wrong without a doubt to ignore these facts and not offer some form of reparation in the present. But how much?
I think that going back to Robert Nozick’s argument is a start. I think Nozick is wrong to make the present resemble the past in every aspect. But I do think that it would be reasonable to restore some aspects of the way things should be. The things that happened in the past were out of our control and we can’t go back to changing the way things were. But we could change the way things are.
For some examples. Why not give at least 50% of political power to indigenous people? It surely would be a fair thing to do considering this is their country. Media control. 50 percent. Industry. Realestate. The list goes on. Why do we not acknowledge the indigenous people on our flag, or better still use their flag? Why is Australia still a part of the Commonwealth when it serves little purpose to any of us and serves as a constant reminder to Indigenous Australians that they are still controlled by the original invaders. These to me are fairly simple reparations that would have minimal impact on Australia as a whole. Perhaps, it would alter the way we live but I think it is our responsibility, morally to forfeit some of our privileges for the greater good. Basically a little bit goes a long way.
In closing, it is a fact that a huge injustice occurred to the Indigenous population and suffering continues to this day. There is no easy solution to such a burden of pain. I believe the only solutions are for the non- Indigenous population to take responsibility and sacrifice our own way of life to bring about an overall equality. Sacrifice is not an easy word. But it all comes down to right and wrong. We are in a position to give, in this current generation. What are we so scared to lose, that was never ours in the first place??
Bibliography
McKenzie,C.”Prof” (2013), Lecture, Historic Injustices and Indigenous Rights, Macquarie University
Poole, R. (1999). Nation and Identity.Routledge, London, pp.114-142
Waldron,J. (1992). ‘Superseding Historic Injustice’. Ethics, 103 (1), 4-28
References
Poole, R. (1999). Nation and Identity.Routledge, London, pp.114-142
Waldron,J. (1992). ‘Superseding Historic Injustice’. Ethics, 103 (1), 4-28