Slowly building trade swell 'till the weekend, stronger E'ly swell next week
South East Queensland and Northern New South Wales Surf Forecast by Ben Matson (issued Monday 9th March)
Best Days: Second half of the week onwards (Wed thru' Sun) should have fun small waves at semi-exposed points under a slowly building trade swell. Stronger E'ly swell for late Mon/Tues.
Recap: A second south swell pushed across the NSW coast on Saturday, surprisingly coming in bigger than forecast in southern NSW (6-8ft south facing beaches, and 10-12ft+ at offshore bombies), but a little smaller than forecast across much of Northern NSW and SE Qld (the latter of which was expected to be very small anyway). This event eased from Sunday and further into today, leaving most locations with very small waves to start the working week.
Next week (Mar 10 - 13)
No major changes to the forecast for the rest of this week as issued last Friday.
We’re currently at the low point of the swell cycle; the trades are slowly starting to muscle up south and west of New Caledonia, and this will incrementally build a trade swell about the region over the coming days, biggest north of Byron.
A ridge across the Queensland coast will maintain moderate to (by the second half of the week) fresh SE winds, although pockets of light S/SW winds are likely early mornings at the usual haunts.
As for size, expect a slowl upwards trend from Tuesday onwards, towards a peak on Friday afernoon in the 3-4ft range across open Gold Coast beaches (a little smaller on the points) with bigger sets on the Sunshine Coast (3-5ft, but again smaller on the points - and even more so at very sheltered spots like Noosa).
However, the open beaches picking up the most size will be wind affected so the sheltered points will certainly offer the best conditions.
As a side note: (re: WSL event) - the contest site at Snapper Rocks usually performs as well as an open beach under these tradeswell events, so we should see a slow building trend from 1-2ft Tuesday to 2-3ft throughout Wednesday, a little bigger into Thursday and then somewhere around 3ft to maybe 4ft throughout Friday. Local winds should be OK - the afternoon sou’easter will add in some bumps to the outside section but for the most part the wave faces should be clean.
South of Byron Bay, this trade swell will taper off in size with increasing southerly latitude, but local winds will be lighter. A southerly change is due throughout Friday which will also bring about a building short range S/SE swell into the afternoon (and more so into Saturday), but no major size or quality is expected from this source.
This weekend (Mar 14 - 15)
Although we’ve got a pretty serious looking synoptic chart for the next few days, the weekend is expected to mainly consist of similar trade swell as what we’re expecting on Friday.
A second developing Tropical Cyclone in the northern Coral Sea will enhance SE winds through the southern Coral Sea during this time, and several days of building trades further east (i.e. north of New Zealand) should maintain mid-range energy from the east.
At this stage we’re still looking at somewhere in the 3-5ft range for open beaches across the Sunshine Coast, 3-4ft for the Gold Coast and then slightly smaller surf as you track southwards from Byron Bay. Moderate to fresh SE winds will dominate the region (lighter on the Mid North Coast) so it’ll be a fun weekend of small to moderate sized semi-exposed points.
Is there a chance for an upgrade? Certainly, but it’ll require future model updates to rapidly speed up the development of the second (Coral Sea) Tropical Cyclone, and track it further south than the current E/SE trajectory. The larger Tropical Cyclone (developing near the Solomons right now) is not expected to provide major energy to the coast until next week (read on for more!).
Next week (Mar 16 onwards)
Tropical Cyclones, eh? Amidst much of the hyperbole in recent days, and as suggested in these notes on Friday, it looks like we probably won’t see a major swell event from this system (despite the myriad of colours on the WAM charts).
What’s unfolding right now is a very complex synoptic pattern across the Tropical South Pacific. However, we’re now getting a firmer grip on the future track of this first Tropical Cyclone developing near the Solomon Islands: initially, its strongest intensification phase will probably occur inside the swell shadow of the South Pacific islands (i.e. Vanuatu, New Caledonia et al), and during that time the strongest flank of the cyclone will be its eastern side (ie W'ly thru' N'ly winds, aimed to the south-east).
The cyclone is then expected to track south, and then south-east, post haste: not a good development for East Coast swell potential (as it’ll be perpendicular to the great circle paths).
But that doesn’t mean we have to completely write off this system.
Let’s take a look at the synoptics across our swell window for the next few days - on the whole, building trades from about Samoan latitudes through the mainland. This will whip up a small sea-state that will be of great assistance as the cyclone approaches and its supporting ridge to the south tightens further.
However if you assess the supporting ridge to the south in isolation as it develops towards the end of the week - i.e. ignore the cyclone itself and just look at the broader trade flow - there’s a healthy fetch of easterly gales developing to the south between Friday and Saturday (see chart below) as the southward tracking cyclone ridges up against a high east of New Zealand.
And this is the most likely source of a decent swell event from this entire weather progression.
At this stage we’re looking at a stronger E’ly trade swell arriving Monday (4ft most open beaches), ahead of an E’ly groundswell pushing through Tuesday (4-5ft) before easing steadily from Wednesday. The more distance source of the swell, plus the easterly swell direction should provide a relatively uniform size distribution to most coasts. It's a real shame the entire system is tracking SE though, as this track will majorly restrict its surf generating potential.
Also, I am discounting the core of the cyclone as having any swell generating potential (for the East Coast), as I don’t think the environment is sufficiently well set up to allow this to contribute significant energy from such a distant source. So really, this swell event will probably just be another super-charged trade swell, mixed in with a healthy percentage of mid-range energy from a more local source (mainly in SE Qld), being the infeed of SE winds into the second developing Tropical Cyclone in the Coral Sea.
Of course, these surf height estimations are malleable depending on how the second cyclone behaves. There is certainly a reasonable possibility that it could track down the Qld coast and end up being a dominant system for the middle of next week, overshadowing any energy generated by the first cyclone further afield. But we won’t have a grip on those possibilities for quite a few days yet.. so let’s re-evaluate the numbers again on Wednesday.
Comments
Finally, someone talking sense about this massively over-hyped cyclone.
At the very least Ben put it in the South Pac and not the Coral Sea.
Major overnight downgrade (for next week's swell). Wonder if this trend will continue through tomorrow's model runs.
story of the summer for the 7 day + WAMs
And we have a name, Tropical Cyclone Pam.
Forecasts have it reaching Cat 4/5 by Saturday when it moves into the East Coasts's swell window, but the track is too quick for any major swell generation as Ben pointed out above.
Gfs and ex still look good don't they at least up until Sunday? Or isn't the fetch in the same place for long enough ?
It'll be a very strong system by this time but tracking away from the coast, which dramatically reduces the swell potential. In fact based on the latest data I'd be surprised if we saw anything of significance at all.
NZ swell
Indeed!
We win the cricket, the rugby, the basketball and now the cyclones whoop whoop
And you're a humble bunch as well :p
but lost the America's Cup to an Aussie skipper when you were sex up and only needed one more win. sorry mick, my little bro runs the Taipans academy, so lots of tears here at moment- remember the taipans are wholly owned by the community- we all pay to keep them alive.
Hectic Davetherave
Is the storm going to follow GFS or EC model? Anyone guessing
14th, am, at 30ish south 173ish east, there will already be a 4 to 6 foot 15 second ese swell in the water..... That wont hurt the situation....
15 sec 4-6ft E/SE at -30/173? Really? 15 sec? 4-6ft E/SE tradewind swell at that location then I'd believe that....but 15 sec E/SE Sat AM.....what created that at -30/173?
20 to 25 foot seas at 40ishs 145ishw....40 to 50 k gales.... that's all....
At 145W, it's too far east to be of value (or influence) - it's also too small in size, and a little too far south. Ignore it, I reckon.
No influence to "active sea state"?..... Ok.....
I agree with Ben on this one. I'm only seeing 10-12s period and it's more SE in direction heading up to locations north of us, whilst the winds and swell from PAM are more E/NE in direction IMO.
No. It's a solitary system, and it's too far away. Any swell that reaches the new development area (south of Fiji) by the time TC Pam moves into the area, will be very small and won't have much strength. Certainly not 15 second swell periods either.
If it were an elongated belt of trades connecting the two regions, then possibly. But the swell decay between the two regions will be significant.
Here it is on our WAMS - current analysis estimsates 18-21ft seas, but if you follow the animation here they fall away rapidly (due to it being a solitary, decaying system).
The ascat was from yesterday.... far more intense yesterday.....
Follow the animation in Ben's link to midday Saturday and you can see the 11-12sec SE swell just to the SW of New Cal poking out it's tongue. Wrong direction IMO to have any active sea state assistance on the E/NE swell from PAM.
Go back to yesterday, don..... 25 foot seas, 3800km, 145/40s -173e/31s......... 5 foot, 15sec.... 14th am....
Agree to disagree on this one mate...sorry.
All good, Don....
It's not the best positioned data point, but our Tonga forecast isn't picking up any energy from the south-eastern quadrant at all.
A rough estimation would be for energy to reach this region sometime around Friday (give or take).. but here's what our model is picking up.
Whangaruru North Coast has 1.5m ese at around 12 sec on the 13th... So something is in the water, ben.
Yep, I'm seeing this....swell height and period.....ain't 15 sec but SD.
Yeah, the models there don't have it, don..... Just a rough calculation on my behalf using yesterdays data re' 40 to 50 k winds, 25 foot seas, from mid dayish 10/3.... re' period what will be will be.... I think 12 seconds may be conservative... 15 seconds may at the upper...
My main point is active sea state in that 173/31 region on the 14th........ I don't think it's gonna be a massive factor, but it will contribute..... My best guess will be that every 7 to 10 minutes when the overly anticipated swell does arrive on your beach, a wave a heck of alot bigger than average will catch people out.... If you know what i'm saying.... That'd be those 5 foot inconsistent longer period swells being worked on by the cyclone....
Except (as Don pointed out) it ain't 15 seconds. Our model for Whangaruru has 1.2m Friday morning (not 1.5m) at 12 seconds.
But I'm dubious on this figure as there's a 15-25kt E'ly fetch inside the Bay of Plenty on Thursday. So, this would be adding significant windswell and possibly contaminating the data.
Also, Whangaruru is also some 300-800 kilometers away - on Great Circle paths - from the broader region where we'd expect the new E'ly fetch (associated with TC Pam) to spin up - that's a significant extra travel distance, which'll see subsequent swell decay.
Must've both been writing at the same time, ben lol..... Check my reply to don above.... Sorta give my opinion on how I came up with those numbers, and what small effect i think it will have...... cheers...
the latest maps show good trade swell for this weekend? over 4ft + and surely some swell will make its way from the cyclone given its position on friday/saturday
Forecast has bounced back a little this morning (for the Mon/Tues swell) but jeez it's a line call.
Thought I was in the wrong room for a minute......this is SEQLD and N NSW???
Yeah it is. All of the discussion is based around upcoming developments for those regions. There's been a NZ tangent in there but it's all related (well, kinda).
lol.... Yeah, kinda.... Damo, the nz tangent may put some extra swell in the water out in the qld swell window, which the cyclone can add to....
So it is related.... Please excuse the nerdfest lol
Ben, a swell query..... In the new cal sw report, 13/3, it has a tertiary 1 metre se swell at 13 seconds.... Is that in any way related to what we've been talking about?
http://www.swellnet.com/reports/south-pacific/new-caledonia/south-west/f...
Not sure SD, and I'm flat out with a few things right now so don't have any time to look into it in detail. Nevertheless, we have a very complex timeframe coming up with swell sources from all directions impacting this region over the coming days.
Cheers, anyway.... Don.... Your opinion?
Yep that's the swell I was referring to on the models this morning.
hahaha no worries guys just having a little dig and making sure you stay on track
lol...... Anyways, whats our little forgotten mate, "cyclone Nathan" up to? ... He headed west... Now heading back out to sea? i think he's pissed off cos' his big sister "pam" is gettin' all the attention..... Who knows, little Nat' might surprise everyone later next week.....
And what's with the naming of cyclones!!!! All these old fashioned 1950s names - "Pam", and "Nathan", and "Marcia".....
FFs, what about a cyclone "Porche", or cyclone "Chia", or "Nashton", or "Lorde", or "jhaze", or "Goyte' "...... hehehehe......
just to add complexity to this dull topic ! lol
what price a bit of Fujiwhara effect going on in the next day or so .
and any talk of it , has most the topic on Nathan following his mum Pam .
but what if Nathan's cries for attention got Pam's interest .
Could Nathan rob Pam of some of the Monsoonal westerly feed and inturn inbalance Pam , creating its own steering with the interaction .... anyone else seeing Pam not doing whats expected of her to date . ?
Well, I could google it, and pretend to be an expert..... But hey ;)
Are they close enough, southey? Is Nathan big enough etc etc? What do you think? It'd be a freekn spectacular thing....
its okay i did your homework for you ... ;-)
binary interaction can occur when tropical systems are within 1400 Kms of each other . ( 2000kms subtropical )
i'll let you guys get out the tape measure
It's Nathan thats most interesting to me.
Current forecasts have him very compact Steve. But track forecasts are potentially positive if he can move outside of the reef shadow.
Seems like they aren't close enough as SD pointed out and there's no cyclic rotation of the two systems.
so the two of them combined are not re-arranging / influencing the uppers .
i presumed that mainly Pam but both were changing the surrounding steering patterns with that Upper trough rotating around and under Nathan to eventually tear apart Pam with VWS on the weekend . Or at very least shunt her to the SE fast .
PS Fujiwhara can just be the two interacting - attracting each other . They don't need to do a full cartwheel into each other and dance ..... Classic full examples show two systems rotating around each other atleast a quarter turn then dissolving into one .
They are both ahead in intensity and size than they were forecasted to now .
When was the last time 2 systems did the dance in the south pacific, southey?
Ahh, here we go... Could it be cyclones susan and ron maybe....
Ron and some bird danced in '98 ??
Sorry was working ..... when i noticed your question and was typing you must of found it ?
Yes.... Looked like ronnie was swallowed up on the eastern side of susan.... Shame BOM don't go back that far re' map archives..... Would be quite interesting to see....
I remember a Sydney shaper! had a synoptic chart as a decal on his brd, was this the one...?
It looked awesome and have never seen such a synoptic chart with two cyclones sitting off the east in perfect position?
Anyone remember..?
G'day Sheepdog, went and had a look for what I could find re TC's Ron and Susan and was surprised to find there were three systems at the same time. TC Katrina was having a bit of a go too. Found this site http://www.mindspring.com/~jbeven/intr0005.htm
Click on the second picture for enlargement shows the three systems.
Appears Katrina was from 2 January 1998 to 24 January 1998, Ron from 1 January 1998 to 8 January 1998 and Susan from 20 December 1997 to 9 January 1998.
Thanks, man..... Just devouring some lunch, and onto Huonville..... I'll have a good look when i get back... Cheers.....
No worries. Looks like a pleasant little town. Enjoy.
pretty awesome picture, asharper001.... And when you look at katrina's track, she too nearly merged with Susan!!
http://www.bom.gov.au/cyclone/history/katrina.shtml
Susan in that above image is almost in the same position as Pam ATM . And although she was a big girl , she 's still a fair bit smaller than Pammy ....
I'm really going to try and dig up that interview where Jon Roseman talks of a cyclone swell lighting up Cloudbreak or reefs in that region .
I'm sure at the time ( mid nineties ?!? ) he said it was the biggest he'd seen it . I wonder if the thundercloud day was bigger / better ?!?
Insane image with those 3 TCs.
I think Fiji met must have the work experience kid on shift at the moment.
http://www.met.gov.fj/aifs_prods/65648.html
Cat 6 WTF!!!
Hahaha good one don nothing gets passed you.
Maybe it's just a little bit of " islander " rivalry piss taking . The Fijians fucking with the Vanuatuans ! Pretty serious game if true ....
Probably just a typo , but what a way to unsettle the masses ... Maybe they are confused between the Aust scale and the Saffir Simpson scale used in USA !
They might think that it's going Cat 5 SS scale and decide they'd make up their own version . Ouch
nathan going to hit flattery isnt it, there would be some good line wrapping inside cape melville, but if the boxies dont get ya, the crocodiles must. water just too warm along tropical coast and gulf water hot as, me thinks it hit coast go overland and sit in gulf as low pressure. havent looked at any data just my gut feeling and my gut is pretty big at the moment so it must know something!!!!
3-5 feet here over next few days with good winds.
Dave, was listening to ABC this morning.... They stated there is a cooler pool of water directly off the cape coast.... Part of the reason they think Nathan will do a uturn back out to warmer environs... Bom does not confirm this, but CSIRO does.... Who knows....
Southey, here's the definition..
"When two nearby cyclonic vortices orbit each other and close the distance between the circulations of their corresponding low-pressure areas"
This doesn't look to quite occur. Nathan is forecast to retro-grade further west than the distance that Pam drifts south-southwest (which is the closest the situation gets to Fujiwhara), before Pam spins off quickly to the south-east.
So close, but not quite.
Latest gfs has a front heading towards Tas on the 18th/19th, and like dominos, totally fucks the high pressure belt, which in turn totally fucks nathan... Maybe good new for east coast tassie post 20th, and bad news for Qld nathan watchers.....