Quobba fins launched in West Oz
Two Australian surfing mates who spent almost 40 years researching and producing a new design of surfboard fin believe they are set to revolutionise the world of surfing.
Glenn Miller and Wayne Blakeney have used the opening day of the World Surf League's Margaret River Pro to unveil their creation, after they secured global patents for their design.
The Quobba fins — the name coming from the Aboriginal word meaning "first" or "best" — are designed to give board riders more speed and greater flexibility on the wave.
They were inspired by the movement of the fastest fish in the ocean and have taken 38 years and more than $2.5 million to develop.
Mr Miller, 61, said he first began thinking about the design of the fins in his early 20s.
"Basically being a surfer all my life I just wanted to make a surfboard go faster," he said.
"It's part of my surfing style. I have a need for speed. It was a lot of time thinking about how water moves across a foil."
How the fins work
Mr Miller said the fins were designed to increase a surfboard's speed by giving it lift through the water.
"We are dealing with a foil. A fin is a foil. It's like an aeroplane wing on its side. And foils give lift," he said.
"We are creating a low pressure system around the base of the surfboard to help the fin system get sucked forward into that low pressure system as the surfboard moves through the water.
"The faster the water is moving around our fin, the more the pressure becomes lower.
"We have a saying, 'the faster you go, the faster you go,' because that is what is actually happening. It's like a turbo."
Former pro surfer Jano Belo has been trialling the Quobba fins at his home break of Margaret River (Photo: Anthony Pancia)
Long and expensive development
Mr Miller said the fin was developed by trial and error with each new prototype costing $US900 ($1,160), but he realised he had found the perfect model as soon as he fitted the latest design to his board.
"When I first tried the fins out in reasonable-sized waves I realised we had a game-changer," he said.
"They took off like a rocket. They held. They turned on a dime and the more that people rode them it began to snowball.
Mr Blakeney said surfers who tried the prototypes, including some professionals, had raved about them.
"Most of the guys who try them aren't giving them back. We can't get them back," he said.
Quobba fin developers Wayne Blakeney, Glenn Miller and former pro-surfer Mitch Thorson at Margaret River (Photo: Anthony Pancia)
Former professional surfer Mitch Thorson was so impressed with the fins he became an investor in the company about four years ago.
The trio were soon able to source the material, a new polymer, for their fins from Switzerland and encourage a designer — who used to work for Rolls Royce — to come on board.
It took them another two years searching through China and Asia before they found a company in Taiwan that could produce the fins.
Former professional surfer Jano Belo, who is now based in Margaret River, used the fins when he won the King of the Point surfing competition at Perth's Trigg Beach in March.
"The first time I rode them I felt it straight away," he said.
"I got more speed and more hold and straight away I wanted them. I've been riding them for about five months now and they feel great."
//GRAEME POWELL
© Australian Broadcasting Corporation. All rights reserved.
Comments
Similar concept to the wing fin of the 80's, I hope it works out well for them
$230 a Thruster set
Why Polymer ?
Would the lift from the boardshape far outweigh any lift that would be generated from such small 'wings' on the fin? The foil boards have really large wings - but are they creating a lot of lift or more using the stability and reduced friction of having board out of water to generate speed. No expert, and I guess if it feels good ....
At $230 a pop they'd wanna be something pretty fcking special!!
And there designed to break off at the tab if they get a Hard Knock.
That's not Jano that's Nato at G-land.
Well spotted.. that's how it was supplied at our end. Caption removed.
Yes...or Jano is great at Switchfoot
You are right.
The caption has been corrected in the original story.
Graeme Powell
So its Nato using Quobba fins ?
Yes he was using an earlier prototype of the fins at G-Land in 2017.
Plenty of other professionals have been using them - some big names among them - but due to sponsorship agreements they can't be named.
At $230 a pop I'd suggest supplying trial fins to all shops. If they feel $100 better they'll sell. Without that feeling though, it's a big jump in price for joe average.
Completely agree!!! Trialling before lashing out $230 is the only way to go.
re-sell should be ok with people keen to try?
Surprised the article just mentions 'trial and error' in development and he knew it was done after riding them once. I would have expected to see allot more scientific info or flow tank videos etc. The website only shows one diagram of the high and low pressure theory. Looks either computer simulation or just graphic.
Show us more! Sell me on them. Get some surfers ive heard of to ride them and show it!
No info on sizing on the website either, none at all.
I would have thought more lift = less hold due to less fin in the water?
Be interesting to see what a shaper/designer thinks of how these fins would change up their boards - Sharkman are you out there ?
Hello! I've been involved in the testing of the fins for the past of couple of years. These fins really perform and it is amazing the difference the small keel makes to your board's performance . They are faster and create really good lift once you get them going - especially on clean faces. They also feature incredible hold heading up the face of a wave, through carves and in the barrel. Once you have worked them out you can basically bottom turn in a more critical part of the wave . When I go back to my normal fins it feels like my board has flat tyres.... There has been a huge amount of behind the scenes work go into these fins over past few years. This article has popped up pretty quickly and there is lot more info & extra features to come. I will stop talking it up now but we have already had some great feedback from some pro-level surfers so stay tuned!
when you say they are faster, can you quantify that with a number.
10 percent ? 20 percent?
How much faster do they make a surfboard go.
Good lift once you get them going .....thought the extra lift was instant ?
Have to call bullshit on 2.5 mill to develop them .
Perhaps it's costed out at $65K worth of annual 'research' over 38 years?
Udo, not having a go but calling bullshit on their development costs is like looking at a Victorior's Secret lingerie model and calling bullshit on how much she invested in bikini line waxes. :)
Had a mate who was involved with developing a marine based hull design. Computer modelling and tank testing costs blew me away when he told me.
Innovation is good, maybe these fins will change fin and board design into the future or maybe they are just another "winged keel" etc.
Which would you rather? A Victoria's Secret Lingerie model waxed and ready to go or a set of fins?
Set of fins! The enjoyment would last longer than about 3 minutes.
I aint no Gary G.
Gary promises it doesn't usually happen like that and it was a once off xoxo
I just wanted to put out there, in my opinion, these fins are bloody great. I am not the guy to go into detail about them via this forum but hopefully they can get them out there for everyone to have a go because I won't be giving my set back! Cheers
So how much faster do you think they make you go ?
is there any CFD testing to show low pressure increase? or better foil performance?
Can anyone explain exactly what lift means in terms of fins? If the fins literally lift making the tail want to lift how does that help in good waves?
Few things i've read say they work particularly well in good waves. My main problem in good surf is trying to slow down and manage speed, last thing you need when its hollow and 4-6 foot is more speed is it? What am i missing here? I want that tail biting in, not lifting. Is this just semantics?
What do they do for you in small surf, this is where everyone needs more speed!
Where have you tested them Roachdog?
My understanding is that lift in surfboards is created by the fact that water has to travel further across the top of the rail than across the bottom. This creates less pressure on the top than the bottom so the net pressure on the board is up, therefore lift. How these fins create additional lift is not clear to me but I definitely don't rule it out. For me the gold standard here would be blind testing so the surfer does not know what fins are in the board he is surfing. In practice, this poses real difficulties but could be done. I am available at my usual rates for consultancy work ie free beer.
Incorrect understanding BB.
Lift is created by the water flowing across the hull and creating a perpendicular force to the flow direction.
I thought after all your battles on here with Roy you would have a basic understanding of hydrodynamics.
Both of you are incorrect. I have nothing to back this up with though. Slow day here so I figured I'd try to start an argument.
awesome :))))
How does water flowing across the hull create a perpendicular force?
Wonder how the C drive boys are doing. Those things fly as well but they can' get them moving.
Cant get them moving..What does that mean memla ?
Can't get enough people to buy them as far I know or backing to push the product. I love them, however not enough people do and they weren't $230 a set. Surfers are tight arses by nature, so $230 for a set of fins is $$$$ for the average plugger. Geez, people whinge about a board worth $800 which means these fins are 25% of the cost.
I'd love to buy some cdrive fins - always been interested in getting a set of those to try out. But they seem keen to make it virtually impossible to get hold of them. It's like they don't actually want your money. The website's down half the time, and even if it's up they don't seem to sell futures 99.9% of the time. It all just looks unbelievably amateur which hardly inspires confidence. Maybe Quobba have got a better game than cdrive when it comes to the marketing/commerce side of things - although who knows if the product is actually any good.
C-drive Futures and Dual tabs Thruster and Quad sets promised by August
Where are you located gasman....you chasing future or dual Tab C-drives ?
Its not only stand up surfers chasing them ...The SUP crowd love them also.
Good lift, really good lift, extra lift, instant lift, literal lift, any lift, lots of lift, created lift. I agree, all this talk of lift is very, very exciting! You can never have enough lift! As has been highlighted, what’s it like without lift? Flattened tires sums it up well.
How fast will lift go? Very, very, very fast no doubt!
jeez its good to see some new developments in the surfboard industry and hats off to these guys for having a go but to make back the 2.5 mil probably wont happen.There going to have to have a pro of high repute on board to pull it off..........anyway good luck fellas.
Reading it more carefully has raised a few issues. If the fins create a "low pressure area" around the base of the board the main question would be low compared to where? I am guessing that what they are trying to say is that the fins create low pressure in front of the fins and high pressure behind, which means the net force would be forward. If so, lift is not involved. Whatever they are thinking they really need to do better than this in explaining the benefits........unless they are so obvious under foot that no explanation is necessary. It would be nice if their hype was true. An extra hundred bucks for a big increase in performance that you can swap between boards sounds like a reasonable deal to me.
‘Lift’ is the new ‘drivey’
Fraser g....did you see Nato surfing with these Fins ?
No mate but I'm sure he was ripping.Nato South Aussie legend!!!
Interesting really need independent appraisal rather than feedback from those handed these fins for product testing.
For me, yeah, I,m a little skeptical. So many factors and variables determine your speed on a wave ,from board design to personal styles to wind chop etc,, and unless your pretty competitive and are looking for a zero point fuckall increase in your performance level , then I can't see these fins being a sort after commodity for the average surfer at that price .Maybe more for cashed up punters who often get a placebo effect from other performance enhancing products available on the surf market.
Always keen to try out new fins, but the price sounds pretty crazy and $2.5 million to develop?
The price would come down if they can sell more.
When surfing good waves do any of you guys think to yourself that you need more speed?
Small or average waves then of course we all do.
Sorry for sounding negative but as my day job is working on 580 000 kg A380 Airbus Aircraft , please refrain from using "LIFT" in describing the effect of these fins , It may feel like lift but anyone with a physics background will tune out from the start.
On the other hand , your fins may give greater hold/control along with reduced drag , if so you may be on a winner.
Best of luck blokes.
It looks like they have employed wing fences and aspiration of the boundary layer via the little breathing holes at the base of the fin.
Would be interested to try just for shits and gigs. Next time I see Jano, I’ll try to borrow a set.
38 years in the making? A designer from Rolls Royce ?Polymer from the Swiss, And made in Taiwan .A more informative product launch backing the physics and hydrodynamics might have been a little more effective
A lot of counterintuitive statements - more lift plus more hold?? Eh it's one or the other.
Why are they wearing dark sunglasses?
nailed it ! and at 2 in the morning..
Yeah it was too.....hahaha
Plenty of other Proffesionals have been using them - Some big names among them but due to sponsorship agreements they can't be named....
Why can't they be named...they have been trailling your product while being sponsored by FCS Futures or another Fin Company....is what you mean ? ?
A naughty move by those surfers...but fucking Fantastic for Quobba Fins
That there is the best FREE Exposure your ever going to get........!
The big names ride whoevers boards work wherever they are so the sponser thing is BS. Sounds to me like old mans Buttonshaws late 80's revolutionary leg rope plug that would make your board come up deck up after every wipeout.
They should send a set to one of the decent surf review youtube channels. Noel Silas is a good surfer and could talk about them honestly.
Udo what do you mean.......who is getting the exposure...?
There is no photographs of the fins.....just some guys wearing dark sunglasses...
Secret Agent Men
Meaning that big name pro surfers have been using there Product.....and any photo /vid footage captured is theres to use
Sponsored surfers error if there caught out testing another brand fin .
whooutthereisgunnatelllhim?
As if............who cares if someone uses another brand of fin............who do you think they are......... has anyone ever heard of this Pro Surfer "Former pro surfer Jano Belo" ???
I’m pretty sure a fin sponsor will care big time if one of their trained monkeys is documented having a good time on the competition’s product.
Jano is a Brazilian ex pro who has made Australia home. He’s got some serious air skills.
Thanks for explaining who jano is eclam
The extra drag that they will exhibit whilst paddling in is a big question from me . However i can see the extra hold in and speed increase . ( Lets not get " ...Lift " back ) as mentioned previously its all about lift , when infact the Physics of large masses flowing is never correct . John i think your being baited . As for money spent on research , its hard to quantify though i can say Scientists never come cheap . Unfortunately Surfing is full of gimmicks and often from the most revered , i hope this isn't another . Send me a set and a ticket to Panaitan .
love that comment.....panatian looks like the place for more board speed.
If they want me to fork out $230 then they should provide a bit more technical data about the product. I,m personally not sold on the low pressure thing being stable enough to have a quantative effect ,through all turns and transitions , through all water conditions, current , wind , foam etc and given the variables that affect water flow around a fin, yet alone 3 of them.
Show us the science... here is a link to some technical stuff about surfboard fins and bio inspired design. Its lengthy pdf I think but interesting nonetheless.. https://digitalcommons.mtu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2003&context=...
Well that's how you do it of you are serious tubeshooter but it only considers single fin set ups so not sure it contributes much to modern design.
Agreed BB,,The assimilation I made with that link was to the modelling designs based on marine life. This link would go to more modern designs.. again another pdf..
https://eprints.qut.edu.au/16824/1/c16824.pdf
Interesting though I am not sure that there would be general agreement that thrusters are faster in small waves.
Video on fins
Introducing Quobba Fins from Quobba on Vimeo.
This is so much rubbish. The modelling they show at 30 sec is just one example IMHO.
The coloured lines flowing of the rear of the fin at the base could only be disturbed turbulent water flow created and magnified by their base flanges and wings.
That would be induced DRAG, plain and simple.
This must have been released on April 1st and just posted on SW late!
If I want speed and hold in good waves I will surf a channel bottom.
Why the use of Polymer ?
Boy, most are just simply asking far too much! The end result of a better fin and more lift has already been introduced! Highly advanced googlers want more, experts demand more! How in the blazes are expert designers, scientists, developers and technicians supposed to keep track of all of their experimentation, procedures, measurements, testing, results etc! Further more, why would experts even bother! That approach is the realm of complete idiots and amateurs! Sure, it’s realistic to provide a better fin, and produce lift, but it’s just plain ridiculous to expect Quobba to keep track of the thinking, ideas and steps it took to reach that point. Again that approach is for knuckle heads. That applies to any expert in any field for that matter.
Is this sarcasm? Its so close to the edge i cant tell.
crypto, the thinking here seems to be more that it is ridiculous to expect people to pay that much more for their fins without substantial evidence that they are worth it. I haven't noticed any closed minds on the issue. If the manufacturers claim that they have done the research then we are entitled to see it if they want us to part with our money.
As much as detailed research numbers are important for those knowledgeable enough to understand and promote the product, I still think any proper scientific data and modelling is mostly irrelevant to joe public. Trial fins for prospective purchasers. If they're noticeably better they'll sell. Period.
So I guess, in a nutshell,
people are asking to see runs on the board. Evidence of expertise, the track record, even the markers of the trail of this long term project. References so to speak.
Who needs that kind of flamin’ rubbish! What kind of knucklehead would even have it, let alone provide it! Certainly not experts. That’s what google is for.
With the technology available today in terms of sensors etc they should be able to justify the speed claim. Don't some of the watches give speed read outs these days? Even Joe Public understands speed data!
how would you gauge the speed , as every surfer has a different style and technique , all waves are different , perhaps Kelly's wave pool ?
After reading all the comments here , makes you realize why surfing is still in the dark ages from a technical understanding and application point of view.
I have a novel idea , create a surfboard hull that goes faster , then adapt /R&D the fins that go with it , try them out in big hollow surf at high speeds!
Put a sensor on the board. Find a down the line wave and tell the surfer to build as much speed as possible. Change fins do it again. Repeat numerous times with different surfers. Analyse your data to see if Quobba fins make a difference.
Put a senior?
Wish they would at least change there Vimeo speed settings to Normal
Crypto, if your sold, just go buy some, all sorted.
Also if you like products that make big claims, I have a can Quak branded striped paint you can have for $200.
BTW Quak is aboriginal for someone with a thick skull and a bit wacky. Sorta like a nutshell I guess.
Yes! you are right! Cranking up the speed, being a speed freak is often the key to claims (no one claims in surfing though), along with google!
http://www.buffalomusic.org/joe-public.html
Is this Joe Public the band that swellnet's Ben fronts?
I am assuming that the graphic in the video clip is showing water speed. Could be wrong but it seems to fit with what would be expected. It would be a lot more interesting if there was a comparison to other fins.
I,m gathering so far that the fins are designed with the side flange based on high speed fish such as mako sharks , tuna etc. The problem for me there is that flared bit is basically part of the fishes propulsion efforts and are forward of highly flexible tail fins. Its not seen on dorsal fins nor generally along the lateral line of the the body , or does it precede pectoral fins .
I,m 'guessing some investors might be looking to recoup some of their losses by launching the product knowing full well all they have to market is a gimmick.
As for how scientists and technicians etc keep track of the testing , measurements , results ,,, I guess the same way anyone with any credibility does.
Another consideration to make regarding the flares preceding pelagic fish tail fins is that this area for the fish gets flooded with very warm red blood cells when the the fish exerts itself. The flared skin allows the blood to cool more rapidly around the tail muscles where there is less surface area to do the job.
No response from anyone from Quobba yet !
John Dutton How about some feedback from you ?
The tail flukes on pelagic fish are there for stability purposes only, not speed creating
All their speed comes through tail propulsion and aerodynamics in pulling back pectoral fins and dorsal fins to literally become a bullet, thus tail flukes only thing keeping them upright, not speed generating
Crickets..........yawn ......might be relegated to the dodo section.
Not exactly uncle_leroy,,,, sharks don't pin their pectoral or dorsal fins in for extra speed and many of them have those flares at the tail. But they are mostly used for high speed torpedo shaped pelagics and serve multiple purposes, and straight line stability is one of them , but they are also pretty rigid and this also helps to direct the energy of the muscle contractions to the tail flukes without excessive movement of the forward part of the fishes anatomy,, ie stealth in an attack.. But unlike surfboards , what they don't have is a planing surface above those flares. Submersible and planing hydrodynamics are two totally different worlds.
In no way is this an endorsement , but i believe Brute touched on this a long time ago when i first started mentioning the mini keels on slalom waterski fins . His post went onto to discuss how often water passes the fins on angle slightly shifted from the hull bottom shape . Hence the base of the fins interaction with the boards underside can create an extra lift especially when the board is being chine walked to speed . From the limited vision i've seen of this seen of these fins the flukes could add a second interaction as the lifted side maintains it even when the base of the fin is lifted from the water . Past efforts on keels even those little 3D fins of recent years is lost at the tip of the fin . Which leads them to be shorter in length as the fin itself is obviously shorter at the tip . Increasing their front to back length here would only add significantly to the wetted surface drag . I'd love to hear an impartial word from Bruce McKee , McCoy or GW on these fins .
Bruce McKee..... McSki
I believe he had a lot to do with Quad development also .
At $230 a hit they only need to sell 10870 units globally to make their $2.5m back.
A Few units more to get to $2.5 mill back...there offering Free Shipping
About $10 Aust wide
Mitch Thorson obviously has connections. I wouldn't be surprised if they extended to our postal services.
I'm developing similar fins made of a titanium manganese alloy that for $300 a set guarantee never to fall out, you will either cut granite reef to shreds or stall immediately, anyone interested?
They'd be handy in a crowd situation with a heap of mals in your way. Slice em' in half.
In thirty years of surfing I've seen a lot of gimmicks come and go. Too numerous to list here. They generally promise the earth with all sorts of pseudo science and gushing testimonials from various people. In practice they deliver very little for the average Joe surfer and often involve convoluted and expensive production methods. From my experience the best breakthroughs in surfboard design have all been quite simple ideas well executed. The fin, The foam blank, The shortboard, The Thruster, The Fish etc. I'd love to be proven wrong here with this one, but I'm sceptical.
No testimonials so far from the elite. surely some of them don't have fin contracts??.
yeah bit strange,pretty much free advertising and its all quiet on the western front.
Did the FAQ only just get put up on there site ?
Yeh no testimonials..?
Dave Delroy - Carr used them yesterday in a Tow session
Nat Hosier at Gland last year...now theres a testing ground....
Did anyone part with $230 and buy a set ?
7 testimonials up on there site..
So has anyone, who’s not a pro used them in normal waves on a normal board?
If so, I’m keen to hear there assessment. It’s been nearly three weeks so if they are any good someone should know.
Pro’s can ride anything and everyone surfs well in great waves, so I just want to know what average Joe in average waves thinks.
Save your money for DEET fins coming soon. Dolphinic Embryonic Encapsulation Technology is being tested offshore in countries with more progressive animal cruelty laws. The extra drive of fins with active flippers hanging out their back is incredible. Attach a barbless minnow lure ahead of your fins for extra drive again
Been a few months since this article, website now seems to have more testimonials from handy-to-very-handy WA surfers (mostly) but I can't easily see many reviews on the web outside of Quobbas own material.
https://quobbafins.com/testimonials/
Anyone given them a nudge?
New Futures JJF fins are selling for $190 (!), that $230 isn't looking so far above the market anymore...
I love these fins. The extra hold in these fins allows you to do massive carves at high speeds with slipping out, and with the speed that is easily created, you are able to do big turns to hit sections without sliding. overall these fins are great and I can definitely see how they will revolutionise the surfing world.
Price drop - $165 for Thruster set
And a new Fin Base design coming soon ?
Quobba now doing a 50% glass 40% polymer 10% ash Fins
Anyone try a set of Quobbas?
I noticed a few of the boys were using them around Margs last Monday when we had that little bump in swell Udo.
These fins are awesome.
Used them for kiting and surfing, over the last 3 months.
Have not had them in real solid surf yet, Im talking WA solid.
Fast indeeeeed!
As fast as quads holds like a thruster.
Great for tuberiding.
Im on the standard size they have made Big boy ones.
great for tuberiding.
Very strong aswell.
I paid 160each bought two sets futures and fcs.
Im very happy so far.
The last fin I saw with a foil was a Horan "Star" fin which he designed in conjunction with Lexan the bloke who did the winged keel for the America's cup yacht when we won it. Showin my age. Maybe it is time for a bit of a "Swellnet" gear test. I would like to see these manufacturers supply the goods so Stu and Ben and TBB can test the gear and provide a review of it's value, TBB must be restricted to a 150 word count though ;)