Jughead: 5'9" And Rising

stunet's picture
By Stu Nettle (stunet)

Jughead: 5'9" And Rising

Stu Nettle picture
Stu Nettle (stunet)
Design Outline

In 1982, visionary shaper Geoff McCoy and his star student, Cheyne Horan, set themselves a personal mission: Shape a sub-6'0" board and ride it at maxing Waimea Bay.

"'Small can't be ridden in big waves.' That was the consensus of the general surfing fraternity," said Cheyne. "At the time I wanted to change surfing's approach and attack on a wave."

The footage appeared in Scott Dietrich's film 'Follow The Sun' and it shows Cheyne winding the windows up on admittedly big yet lumpy Waimea.

So could small boards be ridden in big waves? The jury was out, at least until tow surfing came along offering vindication of a sort. When the paddling aspect is removed, performance boards can be ridden in XXL surf.

But what about riding small boards in big waves, and paddling into them

NSW Central Coast surfer and shaper duo Jughead Allport and Garry 'Wiz' Loveridge, have been pursuing that line of thought for years. First with the WizFish, which Garry is adamant can be ridden in large waves, with Jug quietly and continually pushing his own barriers.

The following conversation was via a shaky phone line as Jug, photographer Tony Harrington, and Mick Freeman sat in a Fijian cafe, debriefing after a solid run of south swell.

Swellnet: Hey Jug, I'm staring at a photo of you on a wave at Cloudbreak. It's a big one and the word is the board is only 5'9". Is that true?
Jughead: It's true.

No tow?
No tow.

Step off?
Not that either. I had offers but I didn't take them - just paddled. I did ride an 8'2" for a couple of waves in the morning, and don't get me wrong, I love riding a big board, but I just can't turn them. Cloudbreak is such a good wave, I feel like I'm wasting it if I can't turn.

I thought you might've snapped your quiver or something like that. What's the volume in it?
Oh, probably 27 litres, I reckon. I'm not 100% on that. It might be 28. I don't know.

And not much rocker, I imagine?
No, not heaps. It's a little bit thick in the nose compared to what I like. I rode a very similar board at Nias in 2018 on that swell when the boat went over the falls.

The opening bottom turn preceded a long and hollow run down the reef. Harro captured the 'hollow' part with an eighty-shot sequence - yes, eighty - of Jug negotiating the barrel on his 5'9". These are a select few of that wave. (Photo Harro)

So If other people are riding 7'' boards and 8'' boards on the outer ledges at Cloudbreak, how are you getting away with a 5'9?
Sit under it.

Sit under the ledge?
Well, just sit in from the other surfers, and just try and engage when they're paddling their arse off. Just sit in a bit. Then you've just got to take off with your eyes closed.

I know it sounds a bit cocky, but if the board's that good, if I get into it, I feel really confident. Taking the drop, I don't care if I'm on a short one or on a big one, but once I'm coming off the bottom, I'm just frothing. I reckon I make as many [drops] on the short one anyway.

Oh, it's not cocky, Jug. It's a strategy. I assume it's shaped by Old Mate Garry?
Yeah. Actually, he made the outline for smaller waves, and I just picked it up about six or eight years ago, and went, "I reckon this could go good [in bigger waves] if it's thinned out." And then I slowly got them a touch thicker as I got older.

They're are a bit wider than I'd normally ride in bigger waves, they're 19 wide, and the wide point is probably a touch forward, there's a little hip in the back just near the fins, which are small tow quads.

Tail shape?
Swallowtail. The outline is like for a small wave board.

It's sounding a lot like a WizStix Jughead model. I've got one that I ride occasionally.
Ha ha...It's not that, but I tell you, I rode my version of that, a 5'4, in some pretty big waves and I don't mind it. I don't have one in a quad...the quads I reckon just go better in the bigger stuff.

Anyway, the model is called an Alby Mongrel, that's the model, and I just tweaked it a bit. That was about six years ago. It was too thin at first, but I just kept riding it.

How's this? I was in the cave at Ulus one day and the Bommie was huge, and this guy had an 8''5" or something, full vest on. It was Rodriguez, this Brazilian guy who has a business at Ulus. He look at me and goes, "How big is your board?"

I said, "5'8.""

He laughed and said to me, "If you get out I'll buy you a beer." Later on, I picked up a wave from the Bommie, I was getting towards the Outside Corner, and I flicked off and saw him. He looked at me and laughed and said, "Fuck me, I owe you a beer."

I said, "Mate, that's my second wave." He didn't even think I was going to get out. He laughs 'cos he always sees me riding little boards.

Don't get me wrong, I love riding big boards but I just hate being on a wave where I can't turn my board - especially if it's a big long wall. I don't ride them enough to turn them.

Comments

freeride76's picture
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freeride76 Wednesday, 17 Apr 2024 at 9:31am

Classic.

Major kong's picture
Major kong's picture
Major kong Wednesday, 17 Apr 2024 at 9:55am

Cool as

Plasticspastic's picture
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Plasticspastic Wednesday, 17 Apr 2024 at 11:25am

I love it. I have been working on riding shorter boards in meduim sized waves with a twin fin/narrow tail set up for a few years now and t has been working quite well. drops are later, but the smaller board allows you to get to your feet and get under lips etc more easily..... The biggest issue is chop. if the conditions are clean or low wind, you can defiantly push the limit. I did find a heavier board did help with the chop, but that made it harder to catch the wave., so then added more volume under the chest.... interesting to see jug having great success..... still one of my most treasured memories was surfing 8ft Lennox on a 5'6 Gary Mcneil torus twin a few years ago.

stunet's picture
stunet's picture
stunet Wednesday, 17 Apr 2024 at 12:14pm

Yeah I've also been mucking around with shorter boards. Even got a file signed off by Stretch Riedel to make one of his Comp Guns - usually shaped between 8 and 10 feet in length - reduced down to 6'4". Flat deck, lots of foam forward, paddles like a demon.

The Wiz Fish I mentioned in the interview is also full of surprises when I push the limits on that thing.

Not too keen on twins, I find quads balance the lack of a rail line.

Plasticspastic's picture
Plasticspastic's picture
Plasticspastic Wednesday, 17 Apr 2024 at 12:53pm

Wow what size are you taking the 6'4 out in? I feel that Twins give you that speed - I am running quite big raked fins - none of this D- type, and the tail is quite pulled in so I get a lot of drive. Maybe the Torus Channel through the middle of the board is helping in maintaining the rail line. The twins also make you use your rails more, which means you never do the speed slide out at the bottom of a big wave like you can sometimes do a thruster...

stunet's picture
stunet's picture
stunet Wednesday, 17 Apr 2024 at 2:58pm

Up to about 10'-12' at the local, which would normally warrant another foot or so of board.

I haven't ridden it for a while, when the local is that size there's lots of paddling involved and my fitness hasn't been there lately.

goofyfoot's picture
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goofyfoot Wednesday, 17 Apr 2024 at 3:01pm

How big does the local hold Stu?

stunet's picture
stunet's picture
stunet Wednesday, 17 Apr 2024 at 3:09pm

Effectively, anything, it's a 500m long point so can't close out, but the shape begins falling apart after about 8'-10' depending on direction, and on the rare instances it does get bigger there are usually better options elsewhere (read: protected).

goofyfoot's picture
goofyfoot's picture
goofyfoot Wednesday, 17 Apr 2024 at 3:14pm

Yeah wow, what a set up.

Plasticspastic's picture
Plasticspastic's picture
Plasticspastic Wednesday, 17 Apr 2024 at 3:50pm

yeah that's epic stu... I have a couple of spots that hold bigger where I test my big little board. 2 of them are super hollow, so the under the lip works, the other one, is out to sea a bit and lurches on the takeoff, is generally windy and hard work and that gives me significant trouble... so there is definetly places where it the small board approach does and doesn't work...

bbbird's picture
bbbird's picture
bbbird Wednesday, 17 Apr 2024 at 9:09pm

surfing 8ft Lennox on any good board is awesome... if you know what your doing
Big Cloudbreak is next level... go for it;.... only, if, you, know, what, your doing
A bigger board would help getting on to the wave earlier before that lip throws..

eel's picture
eel's picture
eel Wednesday, 17 Apr 2024 at 11:40am

Fuck yea! What a legend.

sarge4's picture
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sarge4 Wednesday, 17 Apr 2024 at 12:26pm

Lord!

Slackjawedyokel's picture
Slackjawedyokel's picture
Slackjawedyokel Wednesday, 17 Apr 2024 at 12:26pm

Jesus Christ.

It’s like an entirely different sport to what I’m doing

freeride76's picture
freeride76's picture
freeride76 Wednesday, 17 Apr 2024 at 12:27pm

Just looking at that tiny board on that big wave gives me the heeby jeebies.

thermalben's picture
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thermalben Wednesday, 17 Apr 2024 at 12:54pm

How about paddling? Not into waves, but across lineups with voluminous currents? Surely that'd be a struggle.

FrazP's picture
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FrazP Wednesday, 17 Apr 2024 at 2:49pm

You would have to think so Ben. It's the struggle in bigger beachies - just getting into a spot and staying there. Can't imagine being able to do it on a little board - outside of being on hell of an intensely fit human.

thermalben's picture
thermalben's picture
thermalben Wednesday, 17 Apr 2024 at 2:50pm

The "intensely fit human" has always been a weak spot for me, too.

Lanky Dean's picture
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Lanky Dean Thursday, 18 Apr 2024 at 1:38am

LOL...aptly put...nice play on words

goofyfoot's picture
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goofyfoot Wednesday, 17 Apr 2024 at 1:18pm

Yeah nah, not keen on taking off under the lip on bigger waves.
Don't have the skill required to do it.
Get me in early any day.

Craig's picture
Craig's picture
Craig Wednesday, 17 Apr 2024 at 2:37pm

Same, a big hell no!

Crazy stuff by Jug.

Island Bay's picture
Island Bay's picture
Island Bay Wednesday, 17 Apr 2024 at 2:50pm

x 3 - In early and a long rail for me, thanks.

What an insane effort.

velocityjohnno's picture
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velocityjohnno Wednesday, 17 Apr 2024 at 5:52pm

x4

Incredible wave and design progression by these guys though! I remember Ando on the little Hypto Crypto in those big lefts and it kind of hypnotised surfing into little boards for over half a decade, I'll stick with paddle and rail length out in the wind far offshore this time around.

Robwilliams's picture
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Robwilliams Wednesday, 17 Apr 2024 at 1:19pm

you know he's going to go

repeat from last year

?si=mk0cBCbV7RfUq410

basesix's picture
basesix's picture
basesix Wednesday, 17 Apr 2024 at 1:47pm

ha, epic! great context with FTS'83
(7" 8"?)

udo's picture
udo's picture
udo Wednesday, 17 Apr 2024 at 1:55pm

Out there somewhere is a few Waves of Jug at Big Ulu on this Board

?si=9LbeGMhwmBPI8cjI

udo's picture
udo's picture
udo Wednesday, 17 Apr 2024 at 2:13pm

Playable @ 1:25 speed

?si=OGC0GE56elBt7JuG

zenagain's picture
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zenagain Wednesday, 17 Apr 2024 at 3:12pm

It's a conundrum for me- I've moved to bigger, fatter, wider boards because I myself am bigger, fatter and wider. Purely to catch more waves. However, once riding said waves, I'm kinda left wanting because I still want to turn but my equipment is not allowing that.

So, when a shaper can shape a 6'0"x19"x2 1/2" @ 40 litres, he'll have a customer in me.

stunet's picture
stunet's picture
stunet Wednesday, 17 Apr 2024 at 3:28pm

Flat decks, Zen.

Keep it thick-ish from your chest to the nose, too.

Dunno if you'll get it to 40 but there's a few hidden litres there.

bbbird's picture
bbbird's picture
bbbird Wednesday, 17 Apr 2024 at 9:30pm

The right amount of tail lift / rocker can make any length of board turn....
eg. Ghost
https://www.pyzelsurfboards.com/index.php?page=surfboard-details&id=6545
& even longboards

velocityjohnno's picture
velocityjohnno's picture
velocityjohnno Thursday, 18 Apr 2024 at 8:24am

absolutely! Have taken one rocker and modded it as such and tbh it's my favourite, can take any drop and turns are compacted. There's more to it than just a couple of sentences but it's just so good!

Lanky Dean's picture
Lanky Dean's picture
Lanky Dean Thursday, 18 Apr 2024 at 12:29am

Zen,
What you weighing in at now days vs 10 / 20 years ago ?

zenagain's picture
zenagain's picture
zenagain Thursday, 18 Apr 2024 at 9:09am

Low 90's now. 10 years ago, high 90's, 20 years ago mid 80's.

Just turned 56. 180cm of pure, dripping love.

Currently riding 6'6" HyptoKrypto and enjoying it. Catches waves well and I can surf it, just sometimes in decent waves wanting something a little more hi-po.

Island Bay's picture
Island Bay's picture
Island Bay Thursday, 18 Apr 2024 at 9:34am

Maybe this? Shows you how much volume you can pack in with a flat deck, and by all accounts it goes really well in a wide range of waves.

https://www.pyzelsurfboards.com/?page=surfboard-details&id=19099

zenagain's picture
zenagain's picture
zenagain Thursday, 18 Apr 2024 at 9:52am

Cheers IB, a few years ago I got an MC Dirty Dingo and it went really really well @ 6'2"- looks similar to the above in planshape.

I'm cool, I'm enjoying my surfing, just gradually accepting the fact that my rip tear lacerate days are behind me.

Island Bay's picture
Island Bay's picture
Island Bay Thursday, 18 Apr 2024 at 9:57am

Goody. Makes two of us.

No way to avoid the slow slide into old age, so we have to learn to accept the new reality. (60 and 80kg)

thermalben's picture
thermalben's picture
thermalben Thursday, 18 Apr 2024 at 2:30pm

I like the look of that board! Hmmmm.

Lanky Dean's picture
Lanky Dean's picture
Lanky Dean Friday, 19 Apr 2024 at 1:50am

I'm about similar I've been weighing in the same for 20 years, stuck around at 80.
I've surfed eps boards for the last couple of years.
I've had this 6'6" I just Can't get off of.
It's actually kinda weird.
Like what happened weird.
Those longer boards moderate your surfing and kinda force you to draw clean lines
If you told me half a decade ago that I would ride a stringerless 6' 6" ......
I would have laughed..... what the heck.
Like you I surf in a 5/4 all year except in summer 4/3.

FrazP's picture
FrazP's picture
FrazP Friday, 19 Apr 2024 at 10:27am

Have you tried the Misc from Hayden? I have both and prefer it in good waves

zenagain's picture
zenagain's picture
zenagain Friday, 19 Apr 2024 at 11:15am

No Fraz, but thanks for the heads-up. I'll check it out.

quokka's picture
quokka's picture
quokka Friday, 19 Apr 2024 at 12:30pm

I ride one of these with MR Twins and trailer, goes really well. I'm 179cm and about 85kg.
https://lostsurfboards.com.au/collections/shop-all/products/quiverkiller...

Rusty Roof's picture
Rusty Roof's picture
Rusty Roof Thursday, 18 Apr 2024 at 7:03am

Try the Machado seaside.
5'11" 41.4 litres.
I'm 59 and it feels like I've knocked 20 years off when paddling and catching waves.
Haven't ridden it over 5ft (8ft face) though.
Been tinkering and reading more about fin set ups so I can keep riding shorter boards.
And finally having to commit to daily exercises to maintain strength for paddling.
Hate that bit but it's having an impact

andy-mac's picture
andy-mac's picture
andy-mac Thursday, 18 Apr 2024 at 7:21am

I had a Seaside for the Sunny Coast dribble, went really well. Now I have a Hayden Shapes Virtue for those small days and it goes unreal, feels a bit like seaside with volume up front, but tail pulled in so has more of a performance feel. Rode Seaside with the Machado 4 fin setup, Virtue with thruster setup. Have surfed it up to 4 foot and went alright, but generally only use it when 1-2 foot, but makes surfs that would have been crap, fun.

https://au.haydenshapes.com/collections/virtue

Lanky Dean's picture
Lanky Dean's picture
Lanky Dean Friday, 19 Apr 2024 at 1:51am

@Rusty roof
How tall , how much do you weigh?

Rusty Roof's picture
Rusty Roof's picture
Rusty Roof Friday, 19 Apr 2024 at 6:53am

Hi LD
I'm 5'9". Probably around 80kg
Shoulders are knackered. Backs not much better.
But better than going to a mal

Lanky Dean's picture
Lanky Dean's picture
Lanky Dean Friday, 19 Apr 2024 at 3:48pm

If it's marginal I surf a 8' eps glider with a quad set up.
Over 2 feet I surf.......a 6'6" eps board.
Rarely surf me short boards lately.

Lacrosse balls for your back and shoulders...
Roll your back out .... constant maintenance nowdays .....you probably should ....ahh maybe I'll write about it.?

velocityjohnno's picture
velocityjohnno's picture
velocityjohnno Friday, 19 Apr 2024 at 4:33pm

Please do LD.

Lanky Dean's picture
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Lanky Dean Saturday, 20 Apr 2024 at 1:32am

Ok VJ
Will do, first thing cut out ...........

udo's picture
udo's picture
udo Wednesday, 17 Apr 2024 at 3:41pm

Play around with this Zen. . .
Yep Flat Decks and Nose to Chest Area you can Sneak in Extra Litres
https://nulltuul.com/surfboard-volume-calculator/

zenagain's picture
zenagain's picture
zenagain Wednesday, 17 Apr 2024 at 3:52pm

Cheers guys, I was actually kinda joking (not really) about the above. Bloke my age around 75kgs still ripping on 28lt Mayhem. I'm jealous.

Optimist's picture
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Optimist Wednesday, 17 Apr 2024 at 3:59pm

Lee winkler also rode little 5’9” boards at big cloudbreak years ago.

ashsam's picture
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ashsam Thursday, 18 Apr 2024 at 10:07pm

Still 7 inches taller than him lol he still rips see him often.

scottishsponger's picture
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scottishsponger Wednesday, 17 Apr 2024 at 4:14pm

Not bad for a paranoid anti-vaxxer!

ashsam's picture
ashsam's picture
ashsam Thursday, 18 Apr 2024 at 10:03pm

Who?

andy-mac's picture
andy-mac's picture
andy-mac Wednesday, 17 Apr 2024 at 4:39pm

Crazy!
Hard to comprehend paddling out in surf that size st best of times, but on a board under 7'.
Ability and guts does the job I guess...

Solitude's picture
Solitude's picture
Solitude Wednesday, 17 Apr 2024 at 5:27pm

Good on ya if you can. Wonder why 5’9, not say 6’2 or something, could still turn very well but have a more paddle power.

mick-free's picture
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mick-free Thursday, 18 Apr 2024 at 4:14pm

Jug said with bigger board catch more wind.

If you watch closely with Billy Kempers wipeout at Cloudbreak March 7 his outside rail catches too much wind once it starts to go he can't pull it back and rotates him into the void.

Island Bay's picture
Island Bay's picture
Island Bay Wednesday, 17 Apr 2024 at 5:29pm

To hell with turning in those waves, haha

Solitude's picture
Solitude's picture
Solitude Wednesday, 17 Apr 2024 at 5:34pm

Haha, true. Take off and run!

I focus's picture
I focus's picture
I focus Wednesday, 17 Apr 2024 at 9:55pm

"They're are a bit wider than I'd normally ride in bigger waves, they're 19 wide"

19"... FFS

Maxwell Davies's picture
Maxwell Davies's picture
Maxwell Davies Wednesday, 17 Apr 2024 at 11:37pm

I ride the boogie, and jug would take off deeper and sit in closer to the reef on a board that looked shorter than my foam biscuit out toowoony front

Lanky Dean's picture
Lanky Dean's picture
Lanky Dean Saturday, 20 Apr 2024 at 1:44am

Hahaha classic.
You're never too deep if your pulling in!
Jug jug jug jug jug!
Cenny coast mayhem.

feltz1's picture
feltz1's picture
feltz1 Thursday, 18 Apr 2024 at 10:30am

Support your local shapers! Wiz and Jug are a prime example of this, two of the best. Jug is ageing like a fine red wine. There is no slowing him down, he just keeps on giving - so inspirational. Those of us that ride Wizstix boards know what it's all about - Gary the quiet legend - drop in and see him at the Long Jetty factory, you may even leave with the stick of a lifetime! How can you beat the knowledge of 50+ years of handcrafting these unreal boards? He knows exactly where to place the foam that keeps us surfing till a ripe old age. A true craftsman.

Lanky Dean's picture
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Lanky Dean Friday, 19 Apr 2024 at 1:53am

Big shout out to the crazy cats of the central coast !

Island Bay's picture
Island Bay's picture
Island Bay Friday, 19 Apr 2024 at 8:31am

Did a reverse Jughead this morning: 8'0 gun in 6ft point surf. Loved it.

FrazP's picture
FrazP's picture
FrazP Friday, 19 Apr 2024 at 10:29am

6ft IB - lucky you. 1-2ft around here.

goofyfoot's picture
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goofyfoot Friday, 19 Apr 2024 at 12:01pm

That’s a Bells Beach special

Island Bay's picture
Island Bay's picture
Island Bay Friday, 19 Apr 2024 at 12:26pm

Clever people over there :-)

Lanky Dean's picture
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Lanky Dean Friday, 19 Apr 2024 at 3:51pm

Sunset Beach also, if you can't beat them join them.

Lanky Dean's picture
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Lanky Dean Friday, 19 Apr 2024 at 3:49pm

The glide, love it...can you duck dive it?

Island Bay's picture
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Island Bay Sunday, 21 Apr 2024 at 9:18am

Yep, just.

freeride76's picture
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freeride76 Friday, 19 Apr 2024 at 8:54am

Reverse Jughead- hahahahaha.

Right with you there IB.

Spuddups's picture
Spuddups's picture
Spuddups Saturday, 20 Apr 2024 at 10:50am

I think it all comes down to how quickly you pop up to your feet. I used to ride quite short boards if fairly sizey surf but now I'm in my 50's I've slowed down by just that split second and I can't seem to get in under the lip like I used to. I haven't gone full rhino chaser just yet, but I can see a future where that's a reality.

Island Bay's picture
Island Bay's picture
Island Bay Saturday, 20 Apr 2024 at 11:08am

Embrace the size!

Definitely a case of age-related slowing down, but also a matter of how ones tastes change. Outside point here is a firm fave, and I know which boards work really well for me. Yesterday I brought a 6'4 step up (Ghost), and the 8'0. Could have gone either way, but picked the big one. Fun to change around a bit.

But a 5'9 at 10ft CB is just beyond my comprehension.

NDC's picture
NDC's picture
NDC Saturday, 20 Apr 2024 at 8:49pm

I think Garry at whizstix is one of the great underground innovators … and so approachable - walk into his unassuming long jetty workshop and ur having a direct conversation with the main man and you feel his got ample time for you as Joe average, walk in non-pro surfer

That said, I loved his boards front side but backside, like other shovel nose fishy shapes I had zero success.

My groveller is now a 5’9 FireWire dan Mann chum Lee and it’s the best grovelliw I have ever ridden by a wide margin. And I have success front side and back side (in small surf - under the lip at 15-25’ cloudbreak? Turning? At 10’ I want in early and go straight. At 12’ I’m usually watching - haha)

Really keen to now try and switch the 5’9 from a thruster to quad - picking up on stunets remark that a quad can balance out the short rail

Great thread. Thanks all.

greg-n.williams's picture
greg-n.williams's picture
greg-n.williams Sunday, 21 Apr 2024 at 5:57pm

6'6" Baker hybrid quad (wide nose & pintail 40lts+) bought it for a of summer slop board & rarely jump off it now unless it is very hollow on the take off. I'm 6'1" 90kg's & sixty something, horses for courses.