Machine shaped
They're two of Margaret River’s most respected and influential shapers who’ve probably fulfilled the requirements of more local surfers than anyone. And you’ll find their guns under the feet of pretty much every heavy hitter in town, including Paul Paterson, Courtney Gray, Damon Eastaugh and the occasional visiting hellmen including Mark Matthews and Jamie Mitchell. So if Al Bean and Marty Littlewood don’t have a problem with shaping machines, perhaps you shouldn’t either.
Al purchased the AKU Shaping machine back in 2008 after a minor epiphany caused the Dunsborough based shaper to rethink a long held view that boards should only be shaped by hand.
“I was very much opposed to the use of machines until I saw a machine being shared by several shapers in a small town on the East Coast in 2007,” says Al. “I realised how accurate they were and how much more control you had over the end product than hand shaping. I also liked the way this group of shapers were interacting instead of competing.”
After a crash course in the use of software, Al was away, and word of the machine’s pluses quickly spread, attracting most other shapers in the region and further afield.
“The machine can precisely cut the profile, rails, concaves, vees and outlines of any board you design to within a couple of millimeters,” says Al. “Though, it’s important to note you still need to finish them by hand, so the more knowledge the shaper has, the better the end result will be.”
Littlewood was one of the early devotees of the machine, and soon found himself regularly travelling up the road to tinker around on Al’s new toy. “I use the shaping machine because it’s the best “tool” we have. It can be used effectively to make boards that are precise, accurate and symmetrical,” says Marty.
“Having said that, it is very capable of making very average boards that don’t perform well, although they look very clean, it’s certainly still up to the shaper to dial it in.”
Not that success came straight away for Littlewood. “It took me a long time early on to figure out how to design properly and have the machine do what I wanted it to do,” he says.
“I had to measure closely the known gems that I had hand shaped and get them into the system. Now that my "library" of designs has grown to around 500 boards, the design process that used to take hours can be a few minutes now in most cases, but it didn’t come easily, early on it took me longer to shape a board with the machine than it did by hand.”
Technically, the machine can produce as many boards as required, though Al cites a couple other benefits to his acquisition. “It certainly saves the RSI in shoulders of shapers, which resulted from years of using a planer,” he says.
“It prolongs the career of a shaper, which is good for the customer as the knowledge built up after years of designs for different surfers and conditions is invaluable.”
And as for the hoary old argument put that machine shaped boards “ain’t got no soul,”?
“Soul is put into a board by listening to the customer, then together figuring out the best type of board to make the person,” says Al. “Soul comes from the care taken to get to the end shape not in the process of carving off the excess foam.” //ANTHONY PANCIA
Comments
Machines allow a true evolution from 'shapers' to 'designers'. The progression of their ideas can be played out quicker, with less hardship on them, and will benefit the consumer in numerous ways
Plus, a machine doesn't have a big night and then get on the tools the next day and knock out something sub-par...
The other beaut thing about shaping machines is the CAD process allows a design to be thrown back and forward between shaper and surfer until both are happy with the final shape when the tyranny of distance comes into play.
This is the final of my 7'2...it took three goes to come to a design both Bert and I were happy with.
Nick Carroll touched on this topic in the latest Surfing life in the board test issue, and it makes sense, taking about how much the machines and software has improved and now that guys know how to better understand it the results are showing enabling them to really tweak and fine tune boards.
Trippergf yeah thats true . I do the same and theres something new about this ; if it doesnt go as you wanted you cant blame the shaper , its your own fault . Its best ever .
Ain't that the truth, I signed off on that board so if it's a dog I've only got myself to blame, especially when ya already have had a long relationship with the shaper, no surprises from either side.
Lucky for me this 7'2 is smooth as silk but in saying that I've not surfed it in enough varying conditions to find a standout weakness yet. If that does come about it's easy to tweak the shape using that original CAD drawing and end up with a board I know is going to work straight up.
Marty is a fine shaper. Al, I don't know. But please be aware that Tom Yoye has been shaping guns for guys in the Margaret River area for 40+ years. We met in California and his hand-shapes have evolved over a long period. It take forever to get a board but some guys are ready to wait. Some (cunning fuckers...) order years ahead when they already have a stock. Machines are good. Hand-shapers are a dying breed. But they're still alive...
Cheers,
Rob
Aint nothing like a custom tom hoye five fin cluster thruster featuring a five stage flat bottom contour single into double conc with chines . Thats for sure
All sounds good, the supposedly being able to perfectly replicate boards, being able to replicate exactly all those super important, minute details which as asserted mean so much. Except that at the moment its impossible. No two blanks are identical. Many minute differences which as pointed out mean so much. Same with glass jobs. And stringers. All those little things are what make some boards 'magic'. And impossible to duplicate.
Best board I've ever had was shaped by Tom around 92. It was 7-2 and I could throw it around in 3 ft to 10 ft ledgend of a bloke
I can't believe I'm completely agreeing with you Uppy .!
Amasing .
Uplift, surely It depends how minute your talking. There must be a point where human interaction with a surfboard doesn't notice the difference (it's too minute). If your taking into account the surfboard surely you've got to take into account the human factor, which is constantly changing, how can you measure that to the degree where it is noticed. At least with a surfboard it is what it is today & tomorrow. Also what about the ocean conditions, never exactly the same I would of thought.
I reckon the technology could/does create the same board to the degree where it couldn't be measured or noticed. Also how much does the psychology of it all play a part. The human factor looking for a subtle change that may not be there.....
Poly blanks vary from blank to blank, with density and air bubbles etc and how deep you cut into the blank.
But EPS would surely be a much more consistent blank? especially when cut from a big block, not like a traditional surfboard shape blank.
And if glassed in the same manner under same same consistent temperatures etc, i think your going to get very consistent results.
Is Poly more consistent than PU in this regard?
Personally i think the technology is now there to produce surfboards that are so similar that the average surfer can not tell the difference.
With CNC machines cutting to a couple of thou accuracy, it comes down to the shaper's experience on finishing a blank for consistancy so as not to blow the CNC'd shape.
As for styrene blanks cut from blocks, the results are so repeatable compared to PU it's chalk and cheese.
Basically the only crew who will feel a couple of thou difference and some minor production variations (glassing/sanding) if any would be team riders who consistently get new boards back to back.
So in that case, taking that stance, all the small details aren't all that important. In the end the machines are a cost/time saver, which is obviously passed on to the consumer.
But in reality, I watched a mate think it was his dream come true when he found his reputable brand dream model board. Which quickly disintegrated, no probs, just get the new, identical one... which wasn't the same, and another one... which was different again... and again... until he gave up. And they are all laying in the shed.
Fine point when ya talking off the rack stuff, but if you are a bloke with a close surfer/shaper relationship then it's an apples and oranges argument.
Apples and oranges all right. How do you like these apples?
'Out of this sort of collision comes great surfboard design. You can’t plan it. Nobody ever has. Says Maurice, “It was a guy who liked surfing and a guy who liked making boards.”
MC went back to the shaping bay and ripped a 6’9” out of a blank, without really even looking at it. Later he realised it was asymmetrical, different rails, the whole nine yards. This was the board that Tom took to Bells Beach and Santa Cruz in February and March 1990 and won both events from the first trials round, basically smashing the opposition before they’d known he was back.'
Its fucked having a good memory. Especially when you read the 'books'. even Arny... he swore he never used machines. He fucking forgot about 1970 though. When he published signed affidavits saying they were the best things he'd ever used. Here's some more apples.
'At a time when most designers were engaging in a measurement revolution – carefully noting each 1/16th of an inch off every half-inch of rail length, trying to do what the CAD cutter machines would soon be doing for them — Maurice shaped directly from gut feel and a kind of certainty formed from his own experiences as a surfer.'
Is surfing gutted?
Uppity, why you being such a downdraft again? Why is it all or nothing with you mate?...I believe you fall into the dinosaur category, and we all know what happened to them don't we.
This tech is a great accompaniment to any shaper worth his salt, not a ball and chain weighing them down with disrepute.
But what would a bloke with seven yrs CNC R&D and bespoke design know, fuck all in your eyes.
Hey, don't blame me tripper, I didn't say it! I'm just the guy that remembered it being said so boldly and proudly. Its a 'core' thing. Cheepers, I didn't ask to have to remember it! Now I wish I'd never read it! At least it would have sold a lot of mags anyway. Well, blame me, chuck it on these big shoulders if you must. And I don't blame you, being a designer and stuff... then this dismisal, claiming all the glory on gut feelings, instincts... yeh right!! The nerve of some people eh!!! Bloody surfees!!!
Some one like kelly slater would have the blank weighed & glass job weighed . Its not that difficult to get a board extremely similar made . It all depends how much efforts made and if your paying for it . My machine shaped board works great
'Its not that difficult to get a board extremely similar made .'
Even the pros keep their 'magic' boards, the keepers, till the very end. Even slater and curren would save them for special heats. They used to go through heaps to get a good one. But, maybe that was all just journalistic bullshit?
A friend tried to duplicate a 'magic' board of his from one of viccos and ripcurl's most famous and experienced shapers, knowing it would one day become unsurfable. Despite both of them trying everything, they gave up in the end. the shaper pointed out many reasons why it was impossible.
'My machine shaped board works great'
How many times have you exactly duplicated it? Did you ever duplicate that "magic' Rawson you snapped at grannies?
No didnt & dunno if it was magic cos it snapped immediatly . Coops70 i was working for tom in 92 as the shit kicker / apprentice .
Every bd i get would change / evolve . Thats why i like the machine becos u make slight changes if u get a newbie . Getting a replica will never happen for thats so boring . Never satisfied always trying to improve thats what the machine & files do for me
.
Agree totally. You don't get the same thing again unless it was brand new you loved it and snapped it. After a couple of years you change or fine tune. Great thing is the files are still on the computer so it is easy to adjust what you want. I know the shapers aren't complaining as it is no fun after thousands of boards getting the planer out again, again, again...... They love being able to design then finish off to a high level it has taken the boring hack work out of the craft.
'No didnt & dunno if it was magic cos it snapped immediatly .'
I just remember the excitement and the praise for the 'magic' Rawson. Then the utter, the gutteral, the shattering devastation... 2 foot grannies as well... not that anyone pointed that out. Then blacks was pumping all week.
U know whats funny is that i have broke 2 bds at 2ft grannys . & theyre the only bds i have snapped in sa . Touch wood
It is funny.
Heaviest wave ive tried to surf & it really was 2 ft
You had to be there though. The meticulously, perhaps even craftily checking the elements, rechecking, rechecking, meticulously preparing the equipment, the drive (away from what would soon be perfect surf). 2 foot grannies the... reward... target? Then very quickly add snapped, self described 'magic' Rawson. The slumped drive back... despite the praying, perfect blacks waiting.
'Comin for a paddle! Uh oh... whats that... is that the, the, the remnants of the Rawson? But they reckon it was barely 2 foot?' Let me guess... 'fuck'n foam ball?'
You would have given anything to duplicate it then.
Fuck you dribble on Big Chargin Lifty
What else would you do, little goofball, the highlight of your day! And not fair to describe camsless's adventure that day as dribble. It's never boring in the desert.
Yeah rightyo but you always charged harder than anyone else
Surely?
Nah, always said the toddler had that title. You were the best at getting in real early though. Although that was before the evolved, nuggetty enforcer camsless.
'You were the best at getting in real early though.'
We warned you'd have trouble at micro grannies... its a quick fucker... toddler saw it first though.
uppity...can't believe you know about that MC guy shaping a bd for curren....actually a factual account......one of his better days in the shaping room....
the whole debate about CNC machines ...its just a tool......anyone who does not want to use tools...should go to the Amazon forest with a beaver....and shape a board!
'the whole debate about CNC machines ...its just a tool......anyone who does not want to use tools...should go to the Amazon forest with a beaver....and shape a board!'
'MC went back to the shaping bay and ripped a 6’9” out of a blank, without really even looking at it. Later he realised it was asymmetrical, different rails, the whole nine yards. This was the board that Tom took to Bells Beach and Santa Cruz in February and March 1990 and won both events from the first trials round, basically smashing the opposition before they’d known he was back.'
'At a time when most designers were engaging in a measurement revolution – carefully noting each 1/16th of an inch off every half-inch of rail length, trying to do what the CAD cutter machines would soon be doing for them — Maurice shaped directly from gut feel and a kind of certainty formed from his own experiences as a surfer.'
But as you've highlighted bruteuseless, just forget about the filed measurements, forget meticulously recording details, forget the working to millimetres/thous' shit, if you want a real 'magic' board. Don't look, just feel, imagine. That's where the 'magic' is. Human hands, not machines.
Still some magic left, some gut feel in surfing. Mackie still has it.
'Lucky reader Andy had a very nice mini Sim done and waiting at the Ulladulla compound, so he made the trip to collect it. Mick threw everyone in the ride and off they went for a surf at a beach break that looks better than the one I surf at, and then afterwards a quick session on the driveway bowl. No shaping machine is going to look after you like that..... '
replicating the magic uppity.....I have all the measurements of that 6 9 to the mm.....documented as I have done to all magic s/bds ...because the question for a designer is why?? and how can I make it better...
but yeah there are days when ya gut feel and when the planets align that you can see different thins in a preshape...
so far I have refused to design my own bds on program...I get a mgis bd and get a really good programmer to do the work ...then cut one and start shaping and get him to watch the changes I do by hand......
So uppsydaisysiargao used to haved all these young surfers stay with him back in Elliston and one of his pet names he had for one particular special one was "the toddler"??
Ba hahahaha..... The toddler?!?!
'replicating the magic uppity.....I have all the measurements of that 6 9 to the mm.....documented as I have done to all magic s/bds ...because the question for a designer is why?? and how can I make it better...'
Deluxe... there is a God!!! All those gut feelings, intuitions, 'imperfections' calculated to the mm/thou. Shit, hang on... you have got the same blank havent you? The identical blank... remember... that was a while go! And the stringer? You know how important those are. And the resin, cloth, the mix, the temp, humidity... sanding... all that shit... to the mm/thou... the crucial micro details. Away you go!
Hope tom's got a big shed. Just a tip, the boys put them in trusses, the rafters, when the walls are full. Its something to do with an environmental, climate change thing they reckon... scientific... 'I try and stay out of it'. One of em is vice captain of the 'Western Save The Environment/Climate Changers' club. Camsless used to be in it he reckons, but started leaving footprints and shit everywhere so they booted him out... its all a bit... murky... a scientific thing for some, a religion for others... 'I try and stay out of it'.
Anyway, you do have the same blank... havent you? And stringer... we know you love your stringers!
You wouldn't string tom along would you... or the swillnuts for that matter!!! Hey, hang on, thats got a bloody ring to it! 'Stringer Cole'... 'stringer'... 'stringers'... I like it!!! Its got a ring to it!!! See yer on 'stringer'... 'oi stringer'... 'stringers goin'... I like it!!!
You do have the same blank... maaaaaaayyyyteee... stringer... to the mm/thous and stuff, them all important, crucial details... you do dontcha maaaayyyteee... striiiiiiiingeeeer????
Oh yeh, don't snort the whole lot at once groges!!!
Luthiers have been having the same debate for years, what type of tool is legitimate and what is not.
Progression and equipment wait for no-one - I guess we should throw out all those cool electric tools that are used to create boards as I'm sure the Hawaiian fathers of board manufacture would be turning in their graves at the thought of sandpaper, let alone that electric planer.
Uplift, the elephant in the room and he don't forget.
Completely agree with you liftier, pretty hard to get any board exactly the same, one would have to strictly regulate the amount of bongs the sander had for morning smoko and lunch and make sure he smoked the same amount every day.
Give it another decade and some other guru shaper with good marketing skills will be telling you why shaping machines a fucked and his way is better, he will most likely be the son or nephew of the guy that had the first shaping machine. And the world goes around and brutus will scream I told you back in the 90's when I shaped"that" board for Curren, wish I could remember what I told you but I definitely did tell you.
All good until old mate changes his dope supplier, then back to square one ;-)
jealous old biff... Leave the board design talk to the big boys, you're embarrassing yourself.
Groggy, get a sense of humour and stop getting sucked in by the sales pitch.
Thank you Shaun for your suggestion. But I did find "the toddler" pretty funny. Does that count?
6"0 x 18 1/2 x 2 1/2 theres millions of em and they all feel the same to me
Your memory's shot. the 'enhancements' didn't work, they diisabled it. Plus, its a pensioner thing.
Your memory's shot. The 'enhancements' didn't work, they diisabled it. Plus, its a pensioner thing.
I guess the majority wouldnt get what i was saying hey cuplift . But you would
I think ya talkin about ya own memory there downdraft, sure ya didn't forget a little something...that you posted the same comment twice in the same minute, yew.
'Progression and equipment wait for no-one'
Why not? What's the hurry? Where are you rushing to? Where are you going... the moon? Better rush!!!! Need more profit... so you can afford some freshly frozen plastic apples? The machine rules!
I'm cruising man, but the nature of humanity is of curiosity, of the search and endeavor...
Whether you like it or not, the wheel of change never stops turning, never waits for one mans approval. You don't have to like it, but on the flip side, who are you?
You been there, you were there eh tripper. Not like the 'book'. You living in the toyota too? One of the mice? Never seen you though.
Or are ya just shredding ?
I guess the majority wouldnt get what i was saying hey cuplift . But you would
I have heard you say 'stuff' before.
'Whether you like it or not, the wheel of change never stops turning, never waits for one mans approval. You don't have to like it, but on the flip side, who are you?'
I've never hidden who I am. Never had to.
The environment changes. It doesn't mean everything has to. Or that change is always good. A boomerang, axe, spear, firemaker worked perfectly 60,000 years ago, and still do today. True genius. Easy to make, pollution free. Economic genius. Aerodynamic genius. Created contentment, took into account the big picture. Change for change sake, change driven by greed, profit, is an addiction. Addicts always say its just how things are, uncontrollable. The anthem.
The toddler!!!
Just for the record grogan , uplift, the rawson never got to be magic . When mick uplift sold it to me i was frothing becos in the year "98 i found it difficult to get boards without rocker , this 7"0 rawson was flat & had enough foam for me so was excited but on the first surf in 2ft wave it broke so of course would have loved for it to be replicated . At that time in my life didnt get custom boards just got cheap 2nd handys that were often old thick singleys or anything thick & flat rockered most often pre 90s boards . Also for the record its newstart
You raved about the rawson at blacks, thats where you first surfed it, before the wily grannies run. I didn't sell it to you. I didn't like it, and some guy at caves was surfing it when you got it. It was arnies. Memory. Gaully needs an apprentice.
Memory?
Honey I think your memory of how you used to go at blacks is a little different to the rest of the coasts! Now let's go and get you one of those bracelets we talked about....
I remember you relentlessly huddled on the floor of the bakery, trying to hide under the front counter, forever shitting yourself. It was fun.
Just come in out of the rain honey. Well get you help
'We' has never been any good to you before. You know that 'we' won't cut it. Come in for a workout. 'I' will take care of you ('we') again... 'heip' you... again. You know that I will 'help' you ('we')... I always gleefully have... again... and again... and again... and again... and again... and again... and again and again... (did I say again)... for what must seem like an eternity to you ('we').... again... and again... and again... and again... and again... and again... and again... (did I say again)...
Uppsydaisy, let it go. Camster says it wasn't a magic board. You need to realise saying a BS story over and over again doesn't make it the truth.
I told you not to snort it all at once 'wee' grogesy... ('we'). Camslessless says lots of 'interesting'... 'stuff'. Sometimes he even says he's washing his hands... except that he's obviously having a shit. All on a 'health' kick, or squat too.
Intervention time!
Just for the 'record'.
Although its probably best deleted... for the sake of the 'book'!
I have the round room organised honey. They have even cut a special oval shaped hole in the door to get your eggs through to you. Now please come in out of the rain. The van is out the front waiting for you....
The 'magic' board, magically replicated, DOES/CAN/WILL exist...
but only ever in the mind of the beheld beholder.
I think.
All else is immaterial material.
That is all.