Australian democracy is a sham
sypkan wrote:short version...
people vote on economic issues when it really matters
Pretty much agree with all of that, and in ideal world the ALP should be going hard with it. Could also add the diversification of media ownership and banning foreign ownership of media in Australia (Murdoch) and get rid of stage 3 tax as well as taxing the fossil fuel corporations properly.
Anyway I am trying to focus on positives if the Gov over the previous rabble and hope they grow into being an effective govt for Australians. The alternative as Dutton , Cash etc continually demonstrate is a nightmare...
No mate. The point of this thread is that there is no hope in the direction of Labor. Just as there is no hope in the LNP. The idea that we can wait with fingers crossed for them to act in our interest is delusional. We can’t vote our way out of this due to the outsized leverage held by the illusionary democracy offered by the Pepsi/ Coke mono party of Australian politics and presented as the only option by the status quo propagandists of the MSM.
The ALP aren’t “timing their response” , the ALP have sold us all out.
Captured. Beholden. Corrupt,
In an ideal world Albo and Scomo would be cleaning shitters instead of running cover for the plutocracy who treats Australians and Australia like cattle on a fenced paddock to be milked , slaughtered and developed at their convenience.
DudeSweetDudeSweet wrote:No mate. The point of this thread is that there is no hope in the direction of Labor. Just as there is no hope in the LNP. The idea that we can wait with fingers crossed for them to act in our interest is delusional. We can’t vote our way out of this due to the outsized leverage held by the illusionary democracy offered by the Pepsi/ Coke mono party of Australian politics and presented as the only option by the status quo propagandists of the MSM.
The ALP aren’t “timing their response” , the ALP have sold us all out.
Captured. Beholden. Corrupt,
In an ideal world Albo and Scomo would be cleaning shitters instead of running cover for the plutocracy who treats Australians and Australia like cattle on a fenced paddock to be milked , slaughtered and developed at their convenience.
Ok, then what is your solution to this situation?
"Nah. It’s 100% ALP now. They can do something about it right now but instead choose to lie and treat the public like mugs at immeasurable expense to Australia.
Nothing whatsoever to do with the LNP."
yep
the question is... why?
it would be the easiest of political scores to make...
I don't buy at all andy mac's theory of a media onslaught, and a mineral resources rent tax style campaign to shut any action down
and even if there was such a campaign... it would get nowhere...
there is practically no one amongst the general public who would think... the high energy prices are fair; that the energy cartels need protecting; that the war profiteering is moral; or that this isn't the sort of big business protecting shitfuckery we expect from the liberals... that it isn't expected labor will keep such grandiose shitfuckery in check...
good luck media... you couldn't sell preservation of status quo if you tried
it's an own goal of grand proprtions for labor
beyond dumb
not to mention, a totally and utterly misplaced ideological position...
why?
how even...
how is it even possible?
Question of the year. Looking forward to the reply and the other people who constantly express similar views should also answer it also.
Edit- Shep got in before I posted, come on FFS nail your balls to the mast and offer up your solutions …..
"I don't buy at all andy mac's theory of a media onslaught, and a mineral resources rent tax style campaign to shut any action down
and even if there was such a campaign... it would get nowhere..."
Maybe you are correct, but no doubt the ALP have the carbon tax, MRRT response with Gina and Twiggy putting on working clothes and getting on the back of a ute, kill Bill, Labor will destroy weekend etc etc still very much on their mind.
the solutions are obvious and have been laid out endless in the forums. i think the better question is who will deliver them.
my only answer to that is more independents in parliament.
see bonza no platform man
and if that's too subtle for ya...
WA WA WA!
Answer to the ultimate question:
There is no solution or alternative. Never was, never will be.
All throughout history rulers have sought power only for their own self interest, and have ruled only in their own interest, within the system of rule or government in which they find themselves having to operate in.
A "democracy" and Westminster system, federalism, separation of powers, etc, just put a relatively large number of checks and balances on the power and behaviour of, and attempt to somewhat disperse the power of, rulers/governments, but who still seek power and rule only for their own self interest (predominately to become wealthy).
The basic theory of (if I remember right) political economy is that the system of government is to be designed to make it, as much as possible, in the interest of the rulers to make decisions that are (in some way) also in the interest of those being ruled.
The ALP and/or LNP will do only enough - well they'll promise to and then pretend to appear to - in order to get voted into power and then maintain their power in order to at all times operate in their own self interest as much as possible.
So yes of course democracy (and not just Australian but all forms) is a sham, as is any other form of rule. To hope otherwise is futile.
"So yes of course democracy (and not just Australian but all forms) is a sham, as is any other form of rule. To hope otherwise is futile" quote
At the end of the day, I guess we are just arguing over the best seat position on the Titanic....
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/news/2022/sep/04/super-...
"democracy is a sham"
Representative democracy, quite possible, but what about a direct democracy?
Switzerland's "constitutional amendment initiative" sounds good to me.
For example, On May 15, 2022, Swiss voters in the canton of Zurich approved a constitutional amendment codifying a target to achieve net zero, meaning “cutting greenhouse gas emissions to as close to zero as possible.”
Imagine that, imagine us having the power to amend the Australian Constitution.
Get X amount of people to sign a petition and then take it to a referendum.
Typical piss weak reply Shep, no doubt you expect people to take you seriously which in itself shows how far removed from reality you really are.
Sure things are poor but any serious credible look at politics will tell even the dimwits among us that unless you’re talking outright revolution all political change occurs incrementally ie the Hawke or Howard or the last decade shit sandwich. Think compound interest.
So Shep and others is it a revolution your after or just a step into fascism trump style?
Then the direct democracy is white anted through sheer financial spending fire power of those willing to propagandise and affect the outcome of the direct democracy.
I reckon that the Swellnet forums are some of the most generally rational and open minded online conversations getting around but it’s obvious, even on here that seemingly smart people are captured by political propaganda.
That’s not a subjective assessment. Example:There’s literally no evidentiary supporting argument to make regarding the gas cartel’s pillaging of the East coast, beyond an potential argument that as a vassal state, Australia has commitments to the USA . Otherwise it’s a straight up rape of Australians; the entire Australian economy, the Australian manufacturing base, the Australian access to essential energy , the Australian people trying to pay energy costs as they skyrocket exponentially when contrasted to anything and everything.
It’s an unprecedented assault on every hour you work,the profitability of your workplace and the bedrock of our modern existence .
Yet…yet the general public awareness of this direct assault is almost unrecognised by most Australians. Like befuddled posters on here have shown ,Australians have been flummoxed into thinking there’s either :
A / Nothing to get excited about
B / Nothing the government can do
C / Its a problem of the previous government and poor old eunuch Albo is as much a hapless victim as we are!
As much as I hope that direct democracy would change anything, which I pray it would in the short term at least, I’ve grave suspicions that direct democracy would be corrupted by Propaganda as surely as our current piss take set up.
It’s gotten to the point where I’m starting to think only a benevolent dictator with a hearty dedication to lopping the heads off crew would ever right this ship.
But …where is this wise he/ she coming from without cultural baggage?
Who’s to say they aren’t t just another emissary of the same globalist cnts running us over the coals?
Are you going to do it ? I’m not….I just want to be left alone in my living room. Please, just leave us alone !*
Not going to happen.
Democracy in Australia is a sham. That’s the point of this thread. It’s not a choice of ALP vs LNP. It’s a choice of the ALPLNP vs Australia. Voting in current form is getting us no where.
Unless and until every Australian voted for the same ( true ) independents , independents which aren’t derivative offshoots of the ALPLNP party , we are all fucked.
GuySmiley wrote:Typical piss weak reply Shep, no doubt you expect people to take you seriously which in itself shows how far removed from reality you really are.
Sure things are poor but any serious credible look at politics will tell even the dimwits among us that unless you’re talking outright revolution all political change occurs incrementally ie the Hawke or Howard or the last decade shit sandwich. Think compound interest.
So Shep and others is it a revolution your after or just a step into fascism trump style?
Seriously…..get fucked.
You think what’s being unleashed upon you is incremental?
Stick your LNPALP apologist rubbish in your arse. I’ve had a guts full. Everyone sucked from your Kool Aid and did the “right thing”, the “sensible thing” and voted out one set of unrepresentative cunts in order to install another set of unrepresentative cunts. What’s that achieving? Aussie resources given to tax-free entities who then turn around and profiteer Australians into destitution.
Australia being crush loaded with environmental and society destroying millions of human bodies in order to add another layer to the Ponzi scheme? The Ponzi scheme which has everything we value being ruined by the minute.
Hey Guy…you fucken virtue signaling beige nobody….how long till your neighbourhood is being made high density 35 stories of concreted- over Aussie bush. Inadequate infrastructure. Zero water security beyond hugely expensive processed sewerage courtesy of multinational private operator. Koalas extinct. Emissions through the roof which means we’ve all got to live with less.
And less
And less.
All the while the private jets of the corporation execs and their political stooges will be Criss crossing the sky.
And there will be Guy Fucken Smiley still bleating to his grandkids…..” Hey, there’s nothing we could do but choose between the corrupt pair of spineless eunuch Albo or Soulless potato Dutton…it’s the most I could muster kids!”
Get out of our way fool
If the stupid, weak fucks like yourself stopped promoting fear of real change then we might actually get somewhere. If 15 million Australians voted for Sustainable Australia last election we would be looking at a different future than the continuation of the corrupt vassal state shit show we are living through.
Instead clowns like you are still parroting the failed line which was dead in the water fifty fucken years ago ….”ALP are better than LNP”
You’re rapidly morphing into a useful idiot bloke. You’re the weak one.
What.A.Fucken.Suprise.
https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/sydney-drivers-may-be-hit-with-charg...
All government-federal, state, local - “ We need MOAR people to sustain quality of life!”
Next minute….” Too many cnts here…you’ll all pay if you want to breathe or take a step sideways”
After deliberately avoiding a single mention of increased population during their election run, the ALPLNP party now announces RECORD BREAKING immigration to …..fuck Australia fair in the arse.
“the government was considering a congestion tax for Sydney’s CBD “
No one wanted the immigration. The ALPLNP knew mass immigration was a vote killer and Australians hated the idea. The ALPLNP kept quiet about it whilst we underwent the ritualised fake democracy dance.
Next minute:
ALPLNP is bringing in millions of unwanted synthetic population growth against public want or need.
Democracy in Australia is a sham.
"...or just a step into fascism trump style?"
haha
facism!
you go joe!!
or is that rick?
is neil in on your incremental revolution?
dude, you really don't need me to cut and paste the numerous macrobusiness articles with 'the mechanism' and a heap of other ideas...
and you really don't need me to explain why WA is enjoying some of the cheapest energy in the OECD... meanwhle, at the other end of oz...
well I hope you dont
'facism'
bahahahahahaha
funny man..
#resistance
classic
"If the stupid, weak fucks like yourself stopped promoting fear of real change then we might actually get somewhere. "
see gsco's post
coincidently, I actually thought of guysmiley as soon as I read it...
whilst thinking the toothless sell out cunts of the contemporary 'left' can't possibly be that cynical, pathetic, and weak of character
AndyM wrote:"democracy is a sham"
Representative democracy, quite possible, but what about a direct democracy?
Switzerland's "constitutional amendment initiative" sounds good to me.For example, On May 15, 2022, Swiss voters in the canton of Zurich approved a constitutional amendment codifying a target to achieve net zero, meaning “cutting greenhouse gas emissions to as close to zero as possible.”
Imagine that, imagine us having the power to amend the Australian Constitution.
Get X amount of people to sign a petition and then take it to a referendum.
Honestly that would be down right scary, most people are super naive and could never be trusted to make big decisions that affect the country, be it the economy or national security or immigration, or border control or foreign aid or even reduction in green house gases or anything to do with mining ect, id much rather elect people with some knowledge and understanding in these areas to make the calls and ideally generally only tinkering things, making small adjustments where needed then seeing the effects. (just like refining a custom board)
Theres so many different aspects that everyday people both left and right might not like but need to happen, thats why despite what either Labor or LNP say or picture they paint in many ways at the end of the day they are very similar (we are seeing this now in some areas and it's frustrating for people who voted Labor)
Personally i think both get things right most of the time, but I'm one of the rare people here that think Australia has done extremely well since the early 90s and even kind of thankful.
For sure Indo.
Imagine the awful alternative…If Australia-instead of destroying our per capita gains, our environment and our quality of life - if we’d simply used the “ nation building” mindset to spend the hundreds of billions we’ve wasted on population growth accommodation infrastructure to instead develop our own resources and downstream manufacturing abilities…
If we’d limited net immigration to a slight positive instead of flooding Australia with humans. If we’d spent $50B on our own LNG plants to make energy FREE instead of spending $50B on a 50km loop road around Melbourne which is only necessary because we unnecessarily Imported 3million too many people into the city in the fucken first place.
If in the year 2005 we had gone down the sovereign empowerment road instead of the deskilling, flood of third world service industry consumer population growth road ….
We would have an ultra rich population of about 20M with a far superior environment, water security, quality of life with a much better provision infrastructure and access to far better health and welfare.
But hey Indo….you’ve got a nice littbackyard to hide from the ever growing masses and you are still getting a decent hourly rate. At least until the ALPLNP get their way and there’s 50,000 tradies in your suburb each undercutting each other till you are lucky to get $1 an hour and you’re paying congestion tax of $2 hour to drive on the roads and $2 litre for recycled sewerage drinking water
Yeah mate….so lucky . We should be grateful
Benevolent dictator?? Well there are many examples where that has worked out well!
Will stick with flawed sham of representative democracy, with all its faults, checks and balances.
Power tends to corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely....
It was a throwaway line.
Just don’t vote for the fucking ALPLNP party . It’s not that hard.
BTW…where’s your checks amd balances when the ALPLNP party presents to the ritualised fake voting dance without a single word mentioning their major policies ie flooding Australia with literally millions of unwanted, environment destroying humans and looking elsewhere whilst multinationals rape Australia raw?
How’s those checks and balances going Bloke?
We are in dictatorship by commitee bloke. What’s the difference?
The propoganda is the same. FFS…NSW even got the military out in the streets when healthy and invulnerable young crew wouldn’t cede to house arrest during the same same flu-induced fake “ health emergency “.
Indo -
"most people are super naive and could never be trusted to make big decisions that affect the country"
You don't reckon people can handle a referendum?
Jeez, just go and live in Singapore already :)
DudeSweetDudeSweet wrote:It was a throwaway line.
Just don’t vote for the fucking ALPLNP party . It’s not that hard.
BTW…where’s your checks amd balances when the ALPLNP party presents to the ritualised fake voting dance without a single word mentioning their major policies ie flooding Australia with literally millions of unwanted, environment destroying humans and looking elsewhere whilst multinationals rape Australia raw?
How’s those checks and balances going Bloke?
We are in dictatorship by commitee bloke. What’s the difference?
The propoganda is the same. FFS…NSW even got the military out in the streets when healthy and invulnerable young crew wouldn’t cede to house arrest during the same same flu-induced fake “ health emergency “.
Funny thing is I kind of agree with a lot of your grievances.
But you know you've lost an argument, and you will never bring people to your way of thinking with abuse, even if it is on a surf website forum from anonymous sources.
Still waiting for you to suggest an alternative solution, not voting for major party is start but hard with representative democracy as minor parties have to preference. I would be all for changing this and also getting rid of gerrymandering. Nats approx 5%vote, Greens 10% of vote, but Nats can form govt. ¯\_(⊙_ʖ⊙)_/¯
Anyway I'm done.....
Given the current trajectory. Something someone somehow will snap. A movement. All roads lead to trump but worse.
andy-mac wrote:DudeSweetDudeSweet wrote:It was a throwaway line.
Just don’t vote for the fucking ALPLNP party . It’s not that hard.
BTW…where’s your checks amd balances when the ALPLNP party presents to the ritualised fake voting dance without a single word mentioning their major policies ie flooding Australia with literally millions of unwanted, environment destroying humans and looking elsewhere whilst multinationals rape Australia raw?
How’s those checks and balances going Bloke?
We are in dictatorship by commitee bloke. What’s the difference?
The propoganda is the same. FFS…NSW even got the military out in the streets when healthy and invulnerable young crew wouldn’t cede to house arrest during the same same flu-induced fake “ health emergency “.
Funny thing is I kind of agree with a lot of your grievances.
But you know you've lost an argument, and you will never bring people to your way of thinking with abuse, even if it is on a surf website forum from anonymous sources.
Still waiting for you to suggest an alternative solution, not voting for major party is start but hard with representative democracy as minor parties have to preference. I would be all for changing this and also getting rid of gerrymandering. Nats approx 5%vote, Greens 10% of vote, but Nats can form govt. ¯\_(⊙_ʖ⊙)_/¯
Anyway I'm done.....
Apologies Andy Mac. I don’t mean to offend you personally. I’m just rallying hard against a situation that seems overwhelming. My cup of frustration runs over sometimes. It’s hard to fathom just how nuanced the intricacies of the plot against everyday Australians.
That word - plot-will get the eyes rolling but how else to describe the situation?
The MSM doesn’t collude with the ALPLNP party, they are both controlled by the same plutocracy.
There is no democracy in Australia. It’s a sham.
So what you gonna do about it?
What's the plan?
Let’s accept for a moment what you’re saying is 100%
AndyM wrote:So what you gonna do about it?
What's the plan?
That’s remotely possible given that the overwhelming majority of voters want policies played +/- in the middle.
Without being pure about your cause what’s practical and can be done this year?
"...Honestly that would be down right scary, most people are super naive and could never be trusted to make big decisions that affect the country, be it the economy or national security or immigration, or border control or foreign aid or even reduction in green house gases or anything to do with mining ect,..."
you know what indo... i think you are totally wrong here...
I think if your list of issues were put to referendum, we would get very very similar outcomes to what you often advocate...
which would be a sensible moderate middle ground on all these issues, ...as opposed to the shitfight flip flop of extremes we've had for the last 20 years or so, as various 'interests' get their way...
whilst some on here like to paint you as dumb and a conservative nutter... with even you now classing yourself as conservative... the reality is your views are conservative in nature, not politics!
conservative as in moderate, not as in old school conservative christian prude...
you are old school working class, with 'moderate' views to suit, if the issues above were put to referendum, most people would vote very similar to you
which would filter out the extreme excesses, that both sides of politics now indulge in as par for the course... as they 'react' to the power holders before them, in a childish game of tit for tat...
quite 'reactionary' in nature
and in another twist of the political spectrum.. the 'progressives' have now become the killjoy conservative prudes... brow beating everyone on every minor issue...
all whilst the the excessive capitalist conservatives of yore, have ran off with all the tresures...
and that is the main reason everyone is so pissed
the world over...
developed countries anyway
we've all been taken for a ride
scammed!
andy-mac wrote:Benevolent dictator?? Well there are many examples where that has worked out well!
Will stick with flawed sham of representative democracy, with all its faults, checks and balances.
Power tends to corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely....
People are asking for a plan, or a response. What has become obvious is that what was thought to be a representative democracy, maybe isn't one. If it's obvious to this forum, it may not yet be obvious to everyone else. I've had so many conversations about what's happening in the footy lately. Go you Catters.
Over 750,000 people informally voted in the last election. That's quite a lot.
It's a pretty crazy agenda, and reveals itself as such when it contradicts itself. For eg radical reductions in individual CO2/local waste will be nixed by huge population growth. Ergo, if those proposing the policies are not schizophrenic, they must not really care about the end result. At this point the realisation is that the emperor has no clothes, and one begins to put food scraps in the general waste bin.
Further, following this line of thought, why would one then listen to any directive they issue? And that is quite a liberating realisation. And the beginning of a response.
Interesting reading the last few pages. In general, all stable democratic countries are moving in fairly predictable trajectories; the parties in contention representing the outer limits of the accepted economic system. Hence, we have a major (LNP) and minor (ALP) party of neoliberalism. Over the long haul, this is the system that Australians have chosen - that is our democracy.
It means there's less jolting between cabinets, more stability for investment, and long term projects have a greater chance of being realised as both parties broadly agree on the political outlines.
In contrast, Scandinavian countries broadly agree on retaining public ownership via social democracies, American parties broadly agree on small govt and free markets, Western Europe on neoliberalism but, unlike us, public institutions remain sacrosanct.
Call it the 'national agenda', and parties attempting to deviate from it need look no further than Labor's loss in 2019. The largest reform agenda in thirty years and they were walloped. It will never happen again. Excuses about the charisma of the leader are a shallow cop out - do you want a prosperous future or a leader with good teeth?
Similarly, choosing one policy as flawed, out of the great many Labor took to 2019, is a schoolboy's read on politics. All politics is compromise.
Actually, not all politics, dictators don't compromise.
DudeSweetDudeSweet wrote:andy-mac wrote:DudeSweetDudeSweet wrote:It was a throwaway line.
Just don’t vote for the fucking ALPLNP party . It’s not that hard.
BTW…where’s your checks amd balances when the ALPLNP party presents to the ritualised fake voting dance without a single word mentioning their major policies ie flooding Australia with literally millions of unwanted, environment destroying humans and looking elsewhere whilst multinationals rape Australia raw?
How’s those checks and balances going Bloke?
We are in dictatorship by commitee bloke. What’s the difference?
The propoganda is the same. FFS…NSW even got the military out in the streets when healthy and invulnerable young crew wouldn’t cede to house arrest during the same same flu-induced fake “ health emergency “.
Funny thing is I kind of agree with a lot of your grievances.
But you know you've lost an argument, and you will never bring people to your way of thinking with abuse, even if it is on a surf website forum from anonymous sources.
Still waiting for you to suggest an alternative solution, not voting for major party is start but hard with representative democracy as minor parties have to preference. I would be all for changing this and also getting rid of gerrymandering. Nats approx 5%vote, Greens 10% of vote, but Nats can form govt. ¯\_(⊙_ʖ⊙)_/¯
Anyway I'm done.....Apologies Andy Mac. I don’t mean to offend you personally. I’m just rallying hard against a situation that seems overwhelming. My cup of frustration runs over sometimes. It’s hard to fathom just how nuanced the intricacies of the plot against everyday Australians.
That word - plot-will get the eyes rolling but how else to describe the situation?
The MSM doesn’t collude with the ALPLNP party, they are both controlled by the same plutocracy.
There is no democracy in Australia. It’s a sham.
https://m.
DSDS... Know what you mean. Ya have probably seen this,but just as relevant today as it was back then....
What @stu said
GuySmiley wrote:What @stu said
“Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others.” Was it Churchill VJ or is that debated?
I reckon there is a growing number of disenfranchised willing to put that to the test
bonza wrote:GuySmiley wrote:What @stu said
“Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others.” Was it Churchill VJ or is that debated?
I reckon there is a growing number of disenfranchised willing to put that to the test
There's also a lot of people willing to point fingers at The Greens and their carbon tax blunder, uttering 'perfect is the enemy of good' without realising the saying has many applications.
Yes that's true.
Stu do you think any of the options being discussed to address health, wealth and security of the nation through Energy, Climate/Environment, Housing & Population are "good", let alone "perfect".
Compromise becomes an exercise in futility when banal solutions are proposed.
"“Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others.” Was it Churchill VJ or is that debated?"
there really is no better alternative for a well educated developed country
democracy isn't the problem anyway...
its the corruption of democracy by big money through lobby groups and donations
which has only exaccerbated and steroided up through neoliberalism, where ppp's (public private partnerships) open the door to all sorts of corruption
"corruption of process" ...as bernie sanders says...
and both sides are up to their necks in it
love him or hate him... but donald trump has been more honest and forthcoming about this problem than just about anyone... saying... 'i know how the system works, I've bought both sides!'
disappointingly, neither side in oz seem willing to talk so openly and honestly about our corruption of process
which has just been laid bare by the energy crisis / gas situation
and disappointingly, even the independents are largely ignorant / reluctant to talk about it...i think it was zoe daniels that said she had no idea of the gas situation as it started to blow up 3-4 months ago
there's little hope when a switched on connected chick like her is totally ignorant such significant situations...
ffs, blowin and macrobusiness have been banging on about it for 3-4 years at least...
but it was uninteresting i guess, and perhaps a little icky, to certain parts of 'the left' when people were asking... why the hell are we selling gas to the chinese communist party at bargain basement prices while ozzie households pay a premium?
then ukraine happened... exaccerbating and exposing the corruption of process that should never have been left unchallenged for so long
if labor were even remotely fulfilling their role...
two recent but timely articles that kind of reflects the frustrations of this thread. What needs to be done and how its not.
https://theconversation.com/taxes-out-subsidies-in-australia-and-the-us-...
https://theconversation.com/migration-boost-is-bad-news-for-australias-e...
Labor right now has the political capital to get on the front foot with some of this stuff.
Bill Shorten’s “reform” was another pisstake.
How do you think he intended to alter the only policy levers which matter, namely the Big Australia/ privatise everything/ corporatise anything left model?
Shorten was merely tinkering at the edges and mostly enacting policy to get more Australians into the workforce. He wanted Australians to work harder, not smarter. Shorten wanted women churning the economy, not raising children or providing a stable family environment.
Rather than ushering in true reform ie mining profits tax, energy security, preserving our invaluable environment and creating increased sovereign wealth per capita , Shorten wanted women at work with child car3 subsidies and earlierschool attendence . Shorten wanted millions more workers fighting over the same jobs , houses , resources and infrastructure so that women HAD to work in order to be able to compete in an ever expanding population.
Don’t for a second think that ALP in 2019 was anything but the exact same anti-Australian sell out neoliberal shills they are right now.
Indo was fluffing about how good we’ve got it. Then there’s this…( From Macrobusiness
+
If only Australia had a mining super profits tax…
By Unconventional Economist
Two of the biggest policy failures this century are:
The failure to implement a mining super profits tax; and
The failure to reserve gas for the East Coast domestic market when the Queensland Curtis Island LNG export trains were approved and then built.
As I noted yesterday, East Coast Australian gas users are now paying some of the highest gas and electricity prices in the world, while our Western Australian cousins, whose government had the foresight to reserve domestic gas, are enjoying the lowest energy costs in the OECD:
To add further insult to injury, China – which receives over 70% of East Coast gas exports – typically pays less than Australian users of that same gas on the East Coast.
The weekend news that Russia has now cut Nord Stream gas flows to Europe completely means international prices will take off again. One LNG export terminal has been idled in Australia for the past month for maintenance but resumed operations yesterday. These two developments mean the gas cartel will immediately pressure the local gas price higher again. And without intervention, gas prices above $100Gj are a real possibility.
This brings us to the second point about Australia failing to introduce a mining super profits tax. The below chart from IFM Investors chief economist Alex Joiner, derived from yesterday’s ABS business indicators release, shows that mining profits now exceed the profits of all other industries:
Ross Garnaut said it best at last week’s Jobs & Skills Summit when he called for a super profits tax:
“Unlike Western Europe and north-east Asia, Australia as a geographic entity has higher terms of trade when gas and coal prices rise”…
“But under current policies, average Australians are poorer”.
“We are kidding ourselves if we think no deep wounds will be left in our polity from high coal and gas and therefore electricity prices bringing record profits for companies, and substantially lower living standards to most Australians”.
Through policy failure, Australia has found itself in the perverse situation whereby the more gas and coal we export, the poorer we get – the opposite of what exports should mean for an economy. Households and businesses are straining under rising energy costs and the federal government is starved of funds, while foreign-owned mining and energy cartels make like bandits earning war profits.
As a counterpoint, the Norwegian Government will this year collect $137 billion from their oil industry courtesy of their well-designed super profits tax. In turn, Norway’s Sovereign Wealth Fund will soar to $1.8 trillion – shared among only 5.3 million people.
Sadly for Australians, the Albanese Government is stacked with policy cowards and even though it has coverage now from most of the press, the ACCC, the RBA, economists, the state premiers, Labor, Liberal and Greens parties, other countries, and eminent global economists, its paranoia about upsetting miners is stopping it from implementing a domestic reservation regime and super profits taxes.
Meet new Labor: the protectors of capital and the enemies of working Australians.
What can we do about it?
The bes5 suggestion I’ve heard so far is to reclaim the stolen party of the Australian working class - the ALP - by joining the party en mass and taking it over by the internal party vote.
It takes millions of Australians voting to put an independent in position to have genuine influence in Oz politics but a mere 100K Australians can join the ALP as members and control it to the point of ridding it of the corrupting neoliberal element. Give Albo and his corporate captured cronies their marching orders and install worker friendly representatives.
We don’t need a revolution, we just need true representation. Which we currently do not have.
"Bill Shorten’s “reform” was another pisstake."
yep, it included practically nothing that matters... and demonised traditional labor voters who'd - through luck or hard work - managed to get marginally in front...
all the while doing fuck all to control the actual 'big end of town'
then there was the chinese grandmas economical reverse logic, that would have only made things that really metter, worse, ie. hospital waiting lists, ageing population, housing etc.
it was so clueless it beggars belief
bonza wrote:two recent but timely articles that kind of reflects the frustrations of this thread. What needs to be done and how its not.
https://theconversation.com/taxes-out-subsidies-in-australia-and-the-us-...
https://theconversation.com/migration-boost-is-bad-news-for-australias-e...
Labor right now has the political capital to get on the front foot with some of this stuff.
its scary to think what biden and co. are offering gets virtually no support from people like me
I saw an article basically describe biden's 'green new deal' that's disguised as the 'inflation reduction reduction act' as yet more corporate welfare...
on the back of 15 years of corporate welfare, that has seen the biggest shift of wealth ever from those with nothing to the rich through the GFC, the corona pandemic, and now the GND / IRA...
mislabelling, gaslighting, and blatant bullshitting aside...
its hard to have any confidence at all in what these clowns propose
especially when the 'inflation reduction act' will almost certainly do the exact opposite...
Welcome to the party Shep, your late.
I remember commenting here on SN years ago when the last of our east coast gas was flogged off at prices pegged to international markets by none other than Martin Ferguson, formerly of the ACTU and then Labor Resources Minister. Ole Martin was rewarded for this sellout of Australia by a highly paid job in minerals after leaving parliament.
All the risks were well known back then and both sides played the game no more so then the ALP having been burnt by the mining tax campaign.
Your point again?
but yes, this bit is almost certainly true...
"Labor right now has the political capital to get on the front foot with some of this stuff."
confidence levels though... low...
and plummetting...
again...
"What can we do about it?
The bes5 suggestion I’ve heard so far is to reclaim the stolen party of the Australian working class - the ALP - by joining the party en mass and taking it over by the internal party vote."
yeh, there's a ray of hope...
a mass grassroots campaign to do so could go a long long way...
GuySmiley wrote:Welcome to the party Shep, your late.
I remember commenting here on SN years ago when the last of our east coast gas was flogged off at prices pegged to international markets by none other than Martin Ferguson, formerly of the ACTU and then Labor Resources Minister. Ole Martin was rewarded for this sellout of Australia by a highly paid job in minerals after leaving parliament.
All the risks were well known back then and both sides played the game no more so then the ALP having been burnt by the mining tax campaign.
Your point again?
and your point?
aside from confirming my point...
(thanks for that... an unusual display of rationality, cooperation, non hostility, and not partisan diatribe...)
We're living in such interesting historical times.
It's possibly a continuation of planet earth slowly unwinding from the jump Europe/UK/USA got over the rest of the world in the industrial revolution, and thus unwinding from colonialism and age of European/UK/USA hegemony.
This jump was due to the capital accumulation from the spoils of war, to rape, pillage, plunder and exploitation, and the complete destruction of the people's of, the Americas courtesy of the slave trade, initiated by the Spanish and Portuguese. It was not due to some kind of Eurocentric superiority in intelligence or political or economic systems, such as democracy.
In the age of European/UK/USA hegemony, democracies of varying degrees and shapes and sizes were the dominant political systems and the majority of peoples was ruled by them either directly or via political and/or neoliberal economic colonialism.
But European/UK/USA hegemony, and indeed the ideas of whole nation-states with (liberal) democratic political systems and of neoliberal capitalism, are only very recent phenomenon (since the 1800s) in the overall bigger picture of the past say 3000 year history of civilisation on this planet.
The rest of this time was characterised by the overwhelming proportion of peoples being ruled by various forms of centralised/autocratic/totalitarian/dictatorial, dynastic and/or monarchical systems or indeed empires.
What we're seeing in the world now with the rise of China, Russia, and much of the Middle East, Asia, Latin America and Africa, is quite possibly a return to this historical balance and norm of the world being overwhelmingly dominated by:
(i) centralised/totalitarian rule but in the form of unitary nation-states,
(ii) East Asia and India, and
(iii) hybrid "socialist/communist/capitalist style", state-dominated economic systems.
It's interesting to note, given their colonial history, that India's economy just surpassed the UK's in size (and India is not really a democracy...).
I'd suggest Russia, China, and a large chunk of Africa, the Middle East, Asia and Latin America, want to see an end of European/UK/USA hegemony, influence and "democracy", and are just biding their time as the axis slowly tilts and the balance of power slowly shifts. A lot of countries may very well see China as their saviour.
Colonialism and the general track record of Europe, UK and USA dominance left a lot of scars that haven't been forgotten.
Well Albo has just rejected the wishes of majority of Australians by recommitting us to the Big Australia model.
The Big Australia model is destructive of every quantifiable standard of living and measure of success as a nation and a community. The Big Australia model- minimum starting base of an extra 1.000.000 immigrants every five years - will see wages plummet, access to health and welfare severely curtailed, water security utterly toileted , congestion and human traffick skyrocketed, competition for employment turbocharged.
Big Australia model takes the concept of sustainability and environmental protection and boots it so hard in the goolies that the idea of protecting our planet will taste like testicles forever more. Any ambition towards emissions reductions is likewise a hearty joke that Albo can’t quite understand.
Albo sold us all out. We replaced a lying sociopath Scomo with an empty chair spineless eunuch and the difference in outcome is negligible at best. The environment is still rooted. Australians wil still be much, much worse off than if we’d voted in an inanimate object.
The duopoly major parties collude to ignore the issues essential to maintaining a liveable nation in preference to indulging the whims of the plutocracy.
Without putting too fine or hyperbolic a point on it….democratic representation in Australia is dead and buried. We get a choice between Coke and Pepsi. We decide which set of useless cnts will ignore the people.