2022 Election
Soggy can you point out where I back up Indo with regard to gender issues?
As for “anti wokeness” being a white thing, do I really have to list the people that signed the Harpers Letter?
You don't have to look any further than Barack Obama if you need an example of a non-white person who has issues with "wokeness".
gsco wrote:Is Australia starting to run the risk of being overly obsessed with left progressive wokeness, identity and gender politics, an indigenous voice, warfare on corporate profits, climate change politics, etc?
I think the basic, core issues that drive the strength of a nation need to be focused on: public health and education, economic stability and growth, productivity, research and development, housing affordability, real wages, military capability, regional political and economic integration, natural population growth, Asia-Pacific security, etc.
Seems that we’re running the risk of taking our eye off the ball.
Wokeness is completely fucking irrelevant when we’re locked into a cold and heating up war with China, which must think we’re a nation of retards trying to fuck a doorknob by getting caught up with things like gender politics.
Actually wokeness is completely relevant, countries like China and Russia are just laughing at the west destroy themselves from the inside out fuelled by wokeness just look at the USA.
While other countries people are proud of their country and culture and what they have achieved, more and more the west hates itself and see's being proud of you country and culture as almost a negative, especially being nationalistic, imagine if we were in Ukraines position do you think we would defend our country like they have?
blackers wrote:Indo, what is it with you and the gender thing? You often bring it up. Why does it bother you so much?
Pretty simple, gender issues & self identification, is without a doubt peak wokeness, and the best example to use when talking about wokeness because even moderate lefties cant take much of it seriously, it keeps the discussion on topic and stops it going into a heated discussion of name calling etc
If i used other woke issues as example like around race for instance, the topic would go elsewhere and go off the rails and get ugly.
indo-dreaming wrote:gsco wrote:Is Australia starting to run the risk of being overly obsessed with left progressive wokeness, identity and gender politics, an indigenous voice, warfare on corporate profits, climate change politics, etc?
I think the basic, core issues that drive the strength of a nation need to be focused on: public health and education, economic stability and growth, productivity, research and development, housing affordability, real wages, military capability, regional political and economic integration, natural population growth, Asia-Pacific security, etc.
Seems that we’re running the risk of taking our eye off the ball.
Wokeness is completely fucking irrelevant when we’re locked into a cold and heating up war with China, which must think we’re a nation of retards trying to fuck a doorknob by getting caught up with things like gender politics.
Actually wokeness is completely relevant, countries like China and Russia are just laughing at the west destroy themselves from the inside out fuelled by wokeness just look at the USA.
While other countries people are proud of their country and culture and what they have achieved, more and more the west hates itself and see's being proud of you country and culture as almost a negative, especially being nationalistic, imagine if we were in Ukraines position do you think we would defend our country like they have?
Wokeness destroying west...???
Absolute nonsense.... Neo liberal policies on steroids are exacerbating the division of wealth which is the primary cause the the vast majority of problems facing the west, USA, UK and Australia. Again using Wokeness as a distraction. The people that carry on about woke culture are generally the sock puppets of the media companies that are happy with the wealth trickling up to them as the planet is destroyed.
If someone self identifies as Patrick Swayze in Roadhouse does that make them woke?
Asking for a friend.
Thank you Andy for giving us an example of what I'm talking about, this self hate type thing.
The reality is western countries lead the world in pretty much every area.
Democracy, Freedom, Wealth & individual average wealth, Lowest poverty rates, life expectancy rates etc.
Im going to say heath, but yes our success has also lead to us basically over eating ourselves to bad health.
But still more and more we see this attitude of the west being bad and our systems being bad, which in some cases is even seeing young people thinking alternative systems are worth exploring again.
indo-dreaming wrote:Thank you Andy for giving us an example of what I'm talking about, this self hate type thing.
The reality is western countries lead the world in pretty much every area.
Democracy, Freedom, Wealth & individual average wealth, Lowest poverty rates, life expectancy rates etc.
Im going to say heath, but yes our success has also lead to us basically over eating ourselves to bad health.
But still more and more we see this attitude of the west being bad and our systems being bad, which in some cases is even seeing young people thinking alternative systems are worth exploring again.
Cannot see anything in my post that is self hating or west hating? Quite to the contrary, the things you mentioned such as freedom, democracy etc are all being attacked by neo liberal policies which are increasing the disparity in wealth in western countries... I believe in all those things passionately. Our last PM obviously did not believe in democratic institutions though ey.
Just shooting the shit, but I guess some people see Western success as a hollow artifice based upon superficiality and greed, erected at the expense of community and social connection, and which, if it continues, will ravage the environment leaving subsequent generations with a diminished quality of life.
Perhaps that's why they care not about KPIs like wealth and increased life expectancy?
indo-dreaming wrote:blackers wrote:Indo, what is it with you and the gender thing? You often bring it up. Why does it bother you so much?
Pretty simple, gender issues & self identification, is without a doubt peak wokeness, and the best example to use when talking about wokeness because even moderate lefties cant take much of it seriously, it keeps the discussion on topic and stops it going into a heated discussion of name calling etc
If i used other woke issues as example like around race for instance, the topic would go elsewhere and go off the rails and get ugly.
Fair point with the last bit but it doesnt really answer my question. I cant see how someone identifying themselves differently has any impact on you (or me to that matter) in your day to day life. Other than finding it irritating, self indulgent or simply dumb, what does it matter? If someone wants to be referred to as "they", or pan-sexual or whatever I cant see the harm. It's not my bag but who am I to tell them how they should feel about themselves? As has been pointed out above, there are many more important things we need to be concerned about.
Anyhoo, carry on.
andy-mac wrote:indo-dreaming wrote:gsco wrote:Is Australia starting to run the risk of being overly obsessed with left progressive wokeness, identity and gender politics, an indigenous voice, warfare on corporate profits, climate change politics, etc?
I think the basic, core issues that drive the strength of a nation need to be focused on: public health and education, economic stability and growth, productivity, research and development, housing affordability, real wages, military capability, regional political and economic integration, natural population growth, Asia-Pacific security, etc.
Seems that we’re running the risk of taking our eye off the ball.
Wokeness is completely fucking irrelevant when we’re locked into a cold and heating up war with China, which must think we’re a nation of retards trying to fuck a doorknob by getting caught up with things like gender politics.
Actually wokeness is completely relevant, countries like China and Russia are just laughing at the west destroy themselves from the inside out fuelled by wokeness just look at the USA.
While other countries people are proud of their country and culture and what they have achieved, more and more the west hates itself and see's being proud of you country and culture as almost a negative, especially being nationalistic, imagine if we were in Ukraines position do you think we would defend our country like they have?
Wokeness destroying west...???
Absolute nonsense.... Neo liberal policies on steroids are exacerbating the division of wealth which is the primary cause the the vast majority of problems facing the west, USA, UK and Australia. Again using Wokeness as a distraction. The people that carry on about woke culture are generally the sock puppets of the media companies that are happy with the wealth trickling up to them as the planet is destroyed.
wokeness versus neoliberalism...
aren't they one and the same?
an excellent article, from well before the shit well and truly hit the fan
an almost prophetic article in other regards
'peak identity politics'
indo-dreaming wrote:blackers wrote:Indo, what is it with you and the gender thing? You often bring it up. Why does it bother you so much?
Pretty simple, gender issues & self identification, is without a doubt peak wokeness, and the best example to use when talking about wokeness because even moderate lefties cant take much of it seriously, it keeps the discussion on topic and stops it going into a heated discussion of name calling etc
If i used other woke issues as example like around race for instance, the topic would go elsewhere and go off the rails and get ugly.
'peak wokeness'
indo is more on the money here than he even realises...
the gender issue encapsulates the whole woke ideology on so many levels...
identifying
his / her 'truth'
the cancelling
the rabidness
the post modernism indoctrination
the anti science agenda
the selective statistics
it really is the epiome of the 'choose your own adventure' ideology
sypkan wrote:it really is the epiome of the 'choose your own adventure' ideology
Ha ha too true.
blackers wrote:indo-dreaming wrote:blackers wrote:Indo, what is it with you and the gender thing? You often bring it up. Why does it bother you so much?
Pretty simple, gender issues & self identification, is without a doubt peak wokeness, and the best example to use when talking about wokeness because even moderate lefties cant take much of it seriously, it keeps the discussion on topic and stops it going into a heated discussion of name calling etc
If i used other woke issues as example like around race for instance, the topic would go elsewhere and go off the rails and get ugly.
Fair point with the last bit but it doesnt really answer my question. I cant see how someone identifying themselves differently has any impact on you (or me to that matter) in your day to day life. Other than finding it irritating, self indulgent or simply dumb, what does it matter? If someone wants to be referred to as "they", or pan-sexual or whatever I cant see the harm. It's not my bag but who am I to tell them how they should feel about themselves? As has been pointed out above, there are many more important things we need to be concerned about.
Anyhoo, carry on.
because it has infiltrated every level of society
from academia and HR all the way down to primary school and childcare
the medical profession is up to all sorts of questionable antics due to what is a pretty radical idea and theory
and just that is the problem...
its all well and truly still in the realms of theory...
and the irreversible negative outcomes of this theory are just coming to the surface now
and, perhaps most importantly, parents don't like the state messing with their kids...
the state should stay the fuck out of people's private lives and beliefs
none of that means you cannot have empathy and respect for transgender kids
blackers wrote:indo-dreaming wrote:blackers wrote:Indo, what is it with you and the gender thing? You often bring it up. Why does it bother you so much?
Pretty simple, gender issues & self identification, is without a doubt peak wokeness, and the best example to use when talking about wokeness because even moderate lefties cant take much of it seriously, it keeps the discussion on topic and stops it going into a heated discussion of name calling etc
If i used other woke issues as example like around race for instance, the topic would go elsewhere and go off the rails and get ugly.
Fair point with the last bit but it doesnt really answer my question. I cant see how someone identifying themselves differently has any impact on you (or me to that matter) in your day to day life. Other than finding it irritating, self indulgent or simply dumb, what does it matter? If someone wants to be referred to as "they", or pan-sexual or whatever I cant see the harm. It's not my bag but who am I to tell them how they should feel about themselves? As has been pointed out above, there are many more important things we need to be concerned about.
Anyhoo, carry on.
I don't care how anyone identifies im sure i even mentioned it in a post the other week about having no issues addressing a man who has transitioned to a women as a women, i dont care less.
But the problem comes in when people are forced to tow certain views and any other views or criticism even misgendering is viewed as hate speech and people are banned from social media etc
To me its like religion, I'm not religious but i respect others right to believe what they like, but i still should be able to say there is no god or criticise their beliefs.
We should all have the right to say, okay you believe that, but i dont accept it, its not my belief.
Also agree with what Sypkan said.
BTW. Im sure people might think I'm transphobic or something, im honestly not, to give you an example about ten years ago my wife worked with a guy who identified as a women, he didn't pull it off very good as was solid and tall so he just looked like a man trying to be a women unlike some you see in Indo where you go okay she is actually not bad looking.
Anyway she invited my wife to go see a movie one night and i honestly had no issues with her doing so, while if it was a male friend that i didn't know maybe i might not feel the same way.
a tragic tale of not doing due diligence and misdiagnonsis fuelled by ideology
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.smh.com.au/national/absolutely-devastat...
it would seem the mixed kid was gay, nothing more, nothing less...
but a trigger happy, self serving, agenda driven, industry totally missed the mark
More tragic tales...
https://www.hrw.org/news/2021/11/18/united-states-transgender-people-ris...
More tragic tales...
https://www.hrw.org/news/2021/11/18/united-states-transgender-people-ris...
some context...
"...Because of family rejection and discrimination in education and employment, many transgender people have limited employment options and work in informal economies like sex work. When this work is criminalized, sex workers are at particular risk of being assaulted or killed by clients and report being reluctant to seek assistance from law enforcement for fear of being harassed or prosecuted..."
one could argue they don't really rrally need to resort to sex work...
but they do
and they also put themselves in other vulnerable situations
call it victim blaming if you want...
but I would take a more nuanced approah around homophobia, and the associated self loathing of 'men' who are desperate and in denial...
a possible self loathing that only arises after the bolt is blown
"...“Simply condemning violence after it happens is too little, too late,” Thoreson said. “If lawmakers are serious about stopping anti-transgender violence, they need to address the poverty and discrimination that put so many transgender people in harm’s way.”..."
like most contemporary identity politics arguments, one could pretty much trace many problems back to class issues...
but thats not very fashionable at this point in time... this very selective consciousness point in time ...of 'peak identity politics and 'peak neoliberalism'...
andy-mac wrote:Yep, certainly true in some cases, although I don't really like the terms right and left ... Some terms have seemed have merged in recent times. Wellness hippy gurus types in some ways traditionally have left leaning views (peace, yoga, pot etc) in some regards, but very right wing in others (anti vax, qanon etc) ... Referring to more extreme fringes on both sides ..
I had to laugh at some of this, although i do agree on the lines being totally blurred.
Im sorry but prior to Covid i dont think anti vax was ever associated with the right, its always been a far left hippy/alternative keep my body clean type thing, it really only became a right wing thing during Covid because conservative generally value freedoms pretty highly, and suddenly having to get vaxed was seen as being anti freedom as was face mask wearing etc
Yeah okay things like pot smoking or drug taking in general have been traditionally left wing in a sense, i guess because conservatives in the west have come from a Christian base and Christians generally believe excessive drinking or drug taking is forbidden because of the loss of control, but i see a different bred of conservatives these days that are often pots smokers.
For instance I was watching the Joe Rogan podcast last week with guys from Trigonometry podcast, and Joe as he does brought out a joint, and they were super stoked and had a smoke too, and i know others like Tim Pool are smokers
Yeah sure i know all these guys say they are not conservatives and even claim to be on the left and always back it up by saying, i support public health care or some social wealth fare ect (as i do myself)
But i just laugh when they say that, i think they just say it to avoid getting cancelled by Youtube because i agree with pretty much everything they say on most social and political issues and i dont think im left leaning at all.
To me there is a new type of conservative that is not religious in any way, but also not anti religious, but still generally hold conservative values socially and politically, to me its a type of progressive conservatism.
I heard recently there are a million empty dwellings in AU and yet we have a rent crisis, a homeless crisis, families flooded out of their homes up/down the coast and single mums paying $800 a week in caravan parks to avoid couch surfing and yet what is exercising the minds of the Swellnet intelligentsia?
GuySmiley wrote:I heard recently there are a million empty dwellings in AU and yet we have a rent crisis, a homeless crisis, families flooded out of their homes up/down the coast and single mums paying $800 a week in caravan parks to avoid couch surfing and yet what is exercising the minds of the Swellnet intelligentsia?
The whole housing topic is an interesting one and still very active and up to it's 65th page
https://www.swellnet.com/comment/853962#comment-853962
If you want talk about brain dead threads 372 pages of Covid and people are still posting about it, but different strokes for different folks i guess.
indo-dreaming wrote:andy-mac wrote:Yep, certainly true in some cases, although I don't really like the terms right and left ... Some terms have seemed have merged in recent times. Wellness hippy gurus types in some ways traditionally have left leaning views (peace, yoga, pot etc) in some regards, but very right wing in others (anti vax, qanon etc) ... Referring to more extreme fringes on both sides ..
I had to laugh at some of this, although i do agree on the lines being totally blurred.
Im sorry but prior to Covid i dont think anti vax was ever associated with the right, its always been a far left hippy/alternative keep my body clean type thing, it really only became a right wing thing during Covid because conservative generally value freedoms pretty highly, and suddenly having to get vaxed was seen as being anti freedom as was face mask wearing etc
Yeah okay things like pot smoking or drug taking in general have been traditionally left wing in a sense, i guess because conservatives in the west have come from a Christian base and Christians generally believe excessive drinking or drug taking is forbidden because of the loss of control, but i see a different bred of conservatives these days that are often pots smokers.
For instance I was watching the Joe Rogan podcast last week with guys from Trigonometry podcast, and Joe as he does brought out a joint, and they were super stoked and had a smoke too, and i know others like Tim Pool are smokers
Yeah sure i know all these guys say they are not conservatives and even claim to be on the left and always back it up by saying, i support public health care or some social wealth fare ect (as i do myself)
But i just laugh when they say that, i think they just say it to avoid getting cancelled by Youtube because i agree with pretty much everything they say on most social and political issues and i dont think im left leaning at all.
To me there is a new type of conservative that is not religious in any way, but also not anti religious, but still generally hold conservative values socially and politically, to me its a type of progressive conservatism.
It's funny how things have changed... Have quite a few mates who you would no way class as conservative in any traditional sense, partied hard, liberal social views, surf etc. But politically very rightish in my view. As you say Covid brought this out with the anti vax thing etc. The whole wellness thing which I personally think has a lot of positives has very much tended to attract more people with a crazy right outlook than loopy left .
Interesting times, but reckon it is a distraction that is working well, eg this forum....
The whole Covid & vax, mask, lockdowns, etc certainly brought some weird separations and views, kind of an eye opener to see who took a certain view, often people you would never expect, i still have friends now that love Indo and generally go every year but havent gone back yet back because they won't get vaxed, to me thats crazy that you can deny yourself of something you love some much because of a vaccine.
The whole anti vax thing seems real popular among Indo expats too, so i don know how hey are every going to come back to Australia to visit as cant re enter Indo if not vaxed.
sypkan wrote:some context...
"...Because of family rejection and discrimination in education and employment, many transgender people have limited employment options and work in informal economies like sex work. When this work is criminalized, sex workers are at particular risk of being assaulted or killed by clients and report being reluctant to seek assistance from law enforcement for fear of being harassed or prosecuted..."
one could argue they don't really rrally need to resort to sex work...
but they do
and they also put themselves in other vulnerable situations
call it victim blaming if you want...
You're victim blaming.
To my way of thinking if people being woke or trans or whatever they choose bothers you then you lack basic empathy. You are the problem, not them.
Everyone self identifies as something.
Just fuck off.
adam12 wrote:To my way of thinking if people being woke or trans or whatever they choose bothers you then you lack basic empathy. You are the problem, not them.
Everyone self identifies as something.
Just fuck off.
How bout you fuck off bloke.
Being woke ain’t there same as being born into a dismorphic physicality. Being woke is a conscious decision to be a reactionary authoritarian fuckstik. Reams of evidence of woke cnts betraying their underlying shit attitudes on these threads. Go read a bit of Vic “ Woke Bloke” Local’s posts for a primo example.
Hey Adam…..you’re a bit of a dumb cnt hey mate. Always was , Always will be…..a dmb cnt.
Oh yeah ….just saw Hiccup’s post. Didn’t read it. Just know that you can put his/ hers/ sandy vagina in the same bracket as Adam.
Get woke.
“ …. . Being woke is a conscious decision to be a reactionary authoritarian fuckstik ….”
reactionary (defined)
adjective
opposing political or social progress or reform.
"reactionary attitudes toward women's rights"
….as in far right, conservative
Now I’m really confused; here I was thinking “woke” went with inner city lattes but all along it’s the far right conservatives who are woken ones. Who’d thunk dat?
tubeshooter wrote:Get woke.
ha ha Uni fly
That was pretty funny.
No mate. Woke is exemplified by Vic Local declaring that anyone seeking lower immigration numbers is racist. It’s a totalitarian technique used to diminish and delegitimise contrary opinion. Woke is saying that you’re misogynist when you hesitate to declare that we should unfailingly “believe all women”. Woke is used as a sledgehammer to drive home the unfathomably naive message that only Black Lives Matter.
Woke is the tool used to arm the useful idiots in their fight against a confected race / gender/ sexuality war that is a distraction from the only war in town….the class war.
There is no race/ gender/ sexuality war in Australia. Don’t let the proudly ignorant foot soldiers of Capitalism tell you otherwise. Poor Hannah Gatsby is a millionaire victim because some heterosexual bloke told an off colour joke whilst she was within earshot. That’s the real issue. Certainly not the way Indian and Nepalese “students” are being weaponised against Australian youth in their battle for a living wage and access to secure and affordable shelter ….
Whatever woke is to you it’s not reactionary. A reactionary position is what the right takes in labelling something woke as part of the ongoing cultural war against anything threatening the status quo.
Whatever woke is to you it’s not reactionary. A reactionary position is what the right takes in labelling something woke as part of the ongoing cultural war against anything threatening the status quo.
Your comment about Lic Vocal duly noted
Little Johnny is in trouble again. https://www.2gb.com/breaking-john-barilaro-charged-with-assault/
GuySmiley wrote:I heard recently there are a million empty dwellings in AU and yet we have a rent crisis, a homeless crisis, families flooded out of their homes up/down the coast and single mums paying $800 a week in caravan parks to avoid couch surfing and yet what is exercising the minds of the Swellnet intelligentsia?
I reckon we can walk and chew gum at the same time.
Neoliberalism and related government policies are a huge problem.
The two-party system is a huge problem.
The related impacts of both of the above on the environment are a huge problem.
And so is a culture of aggressive moral superiority that alienates moderate supporters, forces people to self-censor and negates nuanced discussion.
GuySmiley wrote:I heard recently there are a million empty dwellings in AU and yet we have a rent crisis, a homeless crisis, families flooded out of their homes up/down the coast and single mums paying $800 a week in caravan parks to avoid couch surfing and yet what is exercising the minds of the Swellnet intelligentsia?
3 empty homes in my street purchased in the last 6 months by interstate buyers.
They could rent them for $1000 per week yet they sit vacant until they are ready to move in.
Supafreak wrote:Little Johnny is in trouble again. https://www.2gb.com/breaking-john-barilaro-charged-with-assault/
Bruz. ...
Swellnet reached peak woke today, classic
gsco wrote:Swellnet reached peak woke today, classic
I want a pair of those jeans!!!!
whoops forgot to post the link so will try that again
peak neoliberalisn
or peak identity politics
or somerhing...
https://www.google.com/search?ie=UTF-8&client=ms-android-samsung-rev2&so...
sypkan wrote:andy-mac wrote:indo-dreaming wrote:gsco wrote:Is Australia starting to run the risk of being overly obsessed with left progressive wokeness, identity and gender politics, an indigenous voice, warfare on corporate profits, climate change politics, etc?
I think the basic, core issues that drive the strength of a nation need to be focused on: public health and education, economic stability and growth, productivity, research and development, housing affordability, real wages, military capability, regional political and economic integration, natural population growth, Asia-Pacific security, etc.
Seems that we’re running the risk of taking our eye off the ball.
Wokeness is completely fucking irrelevant when we’re locked into a cold and heating up war with China, which must think we’re a nation of retards trying to fuck a doorknob by getting caught up with things like gender politics.
Actually wokeness is completely relevant, countries like China and Russia are just laughing at the west destroy themselves from the inside out fuelled by wokeness just look at the USA.
While other countries people are proud of their country and culture and what they have achieved, more and more the west hates itself and see's being proud of you country and culture as almost a negative, especially being nationalistic, imagine if we were in Ukraines position do you think we would defend our country like they have?
Wokeness destroying west...???
Absolute nonsense.... Neo liberal policies on steroids are exacerbating the division of wealth which is the primary cause the the vast majority of problems facing the west, USA, UK and Australia. Again using Wokeness as a distraction. The people that carry on about woke culture are generally the sock puppets of the media companies that are happy with the wealth trickling up to them as the planet is destroyed.wokeness versus neoliberalism...
aren't they one and the same?
an excellent article, from well before the shit well and truly hit the fan
an almost prophetic article in other regards
'peak identity politics'
"reactionary (defined)
adjective
opposing political or social progress or reform."
sounds about right...
Hiccups wrote:sypkan wrote:some context...
"...Because of family rejection and discrimination in education and employment, many transgender people have limited employment options and work in informal economies like sex work. When this work is criminalized, sex workers are at particular risk of being assaulted or killed by clients and report being reluctant to seek assistance from law enforcement for fear of being harassed or prosecuted..."
one could argue they don't really rrally need to resort to sex work...
but they do
and they also put themselves in other vulnerable situations
call it victim blaming if you want...
You're victim blaming.
so call it that then... 'if you want...'
and totally and obtusely ignore the context of the abuse
to argue that the violence and abuse is the result of some widespread evil transphobia infecting the majority of the population that makes people go out and randomly bash and murder trans people is so fucking spurious its ridiculous... yet this is what you and the article are suggesting...
it's so fucking dumb its retarded... in the truest sense of the word...
buy yeh, lets not talk about whats really going on... lets just make up some bullshit that divides, misleads, and irritates people to the extreme so some morons can feel better about themselves...
no the morons are not the trans people
Seems to be a bit of a pattern with Scotty not informing those around him of what he’s up to and a little bit “ loose with the truth “ https://www.thesaturdaypaper.com.au/opinion/topic/2022/08/27/scott-morri...
Is the Referendum losing momentum?
If the Vote was held today the Indigenous Voice in Parliament would Fail.
Support has grown but it still falls well short, like the alienating Republic model fail!
That surprised tbb as ALP just won Govt on this very platform...so why are Aussies voting No!
Most likely they don't trust any PM pushing as hard as Johnny & Albo...rightfully so they smell a rat!
At this point it's only fair to salute "The Conversation" for getting ahead of the politics...Good stuff!
tbb was surprised how advanced the alternate back up model had advanced.
Do we even need a referendum for First Nation to have a voice in Parliament! (Answer is...NO!)
Dec 2019 Vic democratically elected Aboriginal Assembly progress Treaty thru legislation.
First Nation are given independent Treaty authority to oversee negotiations.
All of this without enshrinement as any incoming Govt would lose face if they tear up the treaty.
Sure! It's a claytons Treaty until someone tries to remove it...(How very dare you!) The outrage!
Enshrined by default as it can only be dislodged by stripping Aboriginal rights...Not a Vote winner!
In other words any opposition would need to run a Default Referendum to remove Aboriginal Rights!
No way could you remove this right without exhausting Campaigning to do so...good luck with that!
https://theconversation.com/first-nations-people-shouldnt-have-to-wait-f...
ALP can simply enshrine The Voice right here & now then let [L] run an opposing referendum!
Something no opposition would ever attempt to win back government...they'd fall flat on their face!
The argument is to follow Vic's lead as a model (Now!) To demonstrate that The Voice is harmonious.
ALP Albo has the numbers in both Lower & Upper Houses to run the Vic model & adopt The Voice.
Then let the passage of time slot the working model into the constitution at next or after elections.
Easy as pie with none of this mayhem and angst...Today we see Albo going rogue over this...it's not on!
No one will vote for this if Albo is shoving it down our throats....Howard's over reach all over again!
The very reason that ALP push for a Referendum is the very reason [L] can't win one from opposition.
Truth is that ALP need these First Nation seats to cling to power...hence the need for a Referendum.
Here's How & Why...
Last Election Conversation reviewed all Aboriginal Swing seats, no reason as ALP polls predicted a win!
https://theconversation.com/indigenous-votes-matter-and-not-just-in-remo...
However...these seats reveal more about the need for a Referendum.
There are 15 marginal Aboriginal Seats ...roughly 5-7 are 10% locked in/out rock solid (Not in Play!)
That leaves 8-10 seats of less than 3% margin over the last 2 elections ( Can swing either way)
tbb as well as ALP polls would include both elections for long term to cancel out any Scomo effect.
ALP can increase vote % in this population to secure these seats!
Crew can sniff this and are racing ahead of tbb...just wait up a bit...
tbb did check on these reported seats...
If Albo's Referendum could sure up these seats he locks in 3 terms of Government.
But first he must enroll record amount of Aboriginal Voters then lock them in with their own voice!
Here's How & Why?
Last Election saw [L] push for Voter ID to reduce Aboriginal turnout to win back these seats!
Sounds Dirty?
ALP are exploiting The Voice to increase Aboriginal Voters to secure helpful ALP > 3 terms of Govt!
A bit like going thru the motions...not this shit again! That's where we're at!
2 steps forward and 3 steps back...
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/30/only-58-of-indigen...
AEC Indigenous Voter enrolment is presumed as 10% above reality + (Only 20-30% cast a real vote)
2016 = 58% Aboriginal Voters (Reality 50%)
AEC dreamtime cave art
2017 = 74.7% > 2018 = 76.4% > 2019 = 76.6% > 2020 = 78% > 2021 = 79.3%
Sure...Whatever Mate! Dream on!
Referendum Reality
At best we can assume 70% Aboriginal Voters with 40% to Vote successfully in The Voice Referendum!
Not even all of them will vote Yes!
How will Albo tell the kids that only 32.58% of First Nation Voted in support of The Voice?
Quite Easy! ALP was Elected with lowest ever 32.58% vote....got a problem with that! Anyone! C'mon!
Anyone wanna fight Albo for the South Sydney Jersey...Anyone?
Exactly! Never about The Voice but all about guilding Gold Standard Votes to lock in 3 years!
Not just raising Aboriginal electoral rates but giving more reason to teach them how to vote for the ALP.
Now if UN were brought in...they'd tell Albo & ALP to shove their Referendum & give them The Voice.
Do not need toxic Comix or Weet Bix Cards...& shove the Chips up yer arse...just get on with it!
The Voice Referendum is being shoved down our throats instead of being exampled in Parliament.
Here's The Voice Polls = Jan 52% > Feb 60% May 73% > June 48% + 58% > July 65* > Aug 65%
However! When 2 propositions are include it confuses & lowers all vote to under 50%
Do we need 2 propositions....well unless we're mighty clever we may well do! (Not this shit again!)
Expert Panel Advice :
We must equally (Vote) to remove racially discriminatory Sections 25 & 51(xxvi) from the constitution!
This would need to be cleverly drafted within the The Voice referendum.
This is the suss trick that will make or break the Vote!
Do we vote to allow aborigines to first remove parts of our constitution before adding to it!
Coz that is a very different request from what is proposed?
Not only would the Vote Fail but Aussies would feel betrayed by all inclusive.
Yes! We can view these thorny devils in Video...thanx to the Referendum Council...
Crew will see that once the Referendum is all inclusive the Vote will be very even 50/50. (No lie!)
This will reflect Aussies giving up certain powers to share power evenly...see how it works!
Albo has never once explained this in adult fashion...he just screams at those not coming on board!
https://www.referendumcouncil.org.au/discussion-topics/getting-rid-secti....
https://www.referendumcouncil.org.au/discussion-topics/amending-race-pow...
Fran Bailey finally speaks up ………….“What has changed my mind is that all of those characteristics that make up Scott Morrison – the secrecy... the supreme belief that only he can do a job, the lack of consultation with those closest to him – those characteristics were evident 16 years ago, and perhaps we’re seeing the end result of those now.”
Back when Morrison was “Mr Tourism”, Bailey says he showed no respect for his colleagues and he left her – his boss, the government minister responsible – feeling bullied: “He doesn’t have any soft approach.” https://www.smh.com.au/national/i-was-gobsmacked-when-he-became-prime-mi...
Supafreak wrote:Fran Bailey finally speaks up ………….“What has changed my mind is that all of those characteristics that make up Scott Morrison – the secrecy... the supreme belief that only he can do a job, the lack of consultation with those closest to him – those characteristics were evident 16 years ago, and perhaps we’re seeing the end result of those now.”
Back when Morrison was “Mr Tourism”, Bailey says he showed no respect for his colleagues and he left her – his boss, the government minister responsible – feeling bullied: “He doesn’t have any soft approach.” https://www.smh.com.au/national/i-was-gobsmacked-when-he-became-prime-mi...
sociopath
not a cheap shot, official diagnosis
his one man show beating shorten in labor's 'unloseable election' went to his head...
which he really really didn't need
the thing is... with his one man show...
his judgement ain't that good anyway
for a host of reasons...
and he doesn't even remotely represent middle australia
pig headed determination only goes so far...
just as t abbott found out
the cunts get the keys to the castle, and don't know what to do with it
And yet there are still those that defend him and his actions . Mr 17% would become more popular if he put slomo to the sword. I’m guessing he’s got so much dirt on his previous front bench that they dare not speak ill of him.
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