Australia - you're standing in it

AlfredWallace wrote:

andy-mac wrote:

$800 million. See ya off to the US Empire who are enabling and encouraging a genocide for some subs we may never get to one day fight a war with our biggest trading partner.
Clever country ey.
First payment of many.
Geez nothing better to do with that $$ here in Oz.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/feb/08/trump-very-aware-supportiv...

Andy-Mac..
Hi mate. Hope you’re doing well.

Complete absurdity.

Why do we need so many submarines? Why do we need any, more to the point ?

For decades now, we’ve cowered under the US umbrella of fear. Pathetic.

I see Peter Garrett described this arrangement as one of our biggest sovereign mistakes we’ve ever made, slipping beneath the sheets and laying in bed with the USA.
One of most disliked nations on the planet, not a wise move. AW

Yea I read the Pete Garrat article.
He isn't the only one concerned with what we have got ourselves into as a nation.

Hope you're having a good weekend AW....

You are nice fellas, but you are strategically blind.

The Aukus equation is simple.
With America? Donate $300+billion for national security.
Not with America? Don't donate and dare go it alone as a small island nation exposed to Asia.
It's a shit deal but one we probably have to cop to keep living this free and easy lifestyle.
The right deal? Definitely not in my opinion, (i think we could get better security for that price elsewhere) but it would be a radical shift in Australia's cosmopolitan lifestyle that would expose Australians to not make the deal happen.
What an absurd waste of money though. Luckily to pay for it we can dig baby dig!!
The subs are just a token of the 'friendship'.

velocityjohnno wrote:

You are nice fellas, but you are strategically blind.

Yeah Peter Garret made some great music but when it comes to national security & defence and preparing for the future be it defence or deterrence, im going to trust the experts behind the scenes that study and look at these things and all possibilities the future may hold, not a singer or politician or journalist or even X military personal no matter rank, or anyone else all their views are pretty irrelevant, especially in this crazy ever changing world.

velocityjohnno wrote:

You are nice fellas, but you are strategically blind.

It’s all just the usual perpetual motion of propaganda in ya face , selling ‘ fear’ as a terror commodity.

Who on earth is going to attempt to take Australia.
We’ve been listening to this rubbish since I was a kid. Fear, is a great tool to keep societies on edge and to bow down to governments.

John Howard and Co. were masters of this game , we all fell for it, wasted enormous amounts of money and wasted lives.
Later history provided evidence that it was all fake news driven by fear, again.

It’s the global manufacturers of defence vessels, armaments etc. Raytheon, Lockheed Martin that keep this bullshit going, slowly seducing global governments who fork out billions to just destroy humans.
Just look at the shit show in the Middle East.

So, can someone please provide me with evidence based facts that highlights an imminent grab of Australia and which country or countries will perform it, I’m calling bullshit on all of it.
It’s just another form of economics disguised as war. Can’t you all see that.
The raw minerals, gas petroleum, arms of warfare that’s what it’s all about.

Look at WW2 for example, Rockefeller, Standard Oil and all these other global companies, despite being at war with the Germans, were still selling through Spain as an entry point to the enemy. Nothings changed, businesses do well out of wars.

If you do reading well, for example , the Vietnam War wasn’t about the NVA, Viet Cong, it was the battle to take control and get access to enormous amounts of raw materials, gas, oil and mineral sands in that country so China whose border to the north didn’t get access before the yanks. USA uses an exorbitant amount of energy as you all know. This AUKUS deal is like committing harikiri. AW

Agreed @AW. Have always thought the same.

Ok crew, what is the context of the submarine purchase?

And if I could put context in italics, I would.

Give me some context - what is happening in the Indo Pacific and wider world in relation to trade, in relation to military procurement, in relation to alliances?

Has the context changed in the last decade?

And for AW - do you have to invade a country to defeat it? Philip II couldn't, Napoleon couldn't, Hitler couldn't - but near as dammit came close to defeating the UK with his U-boat campaign, by denying the maritime commerce the UK depended on. Nearly.

UK, Japan and Australia are unique as island powers... traditionally the former two have been great naval powers and able to defend their sealanes.

So if it was up to you AW would Australia have a defence force and alliance with USA?

Or would you just roll the dice and hope nobody invades?

The reality is countries do invade other countries and try to take them over, just look at Ukraine and Russia, if Ukraine took the view that they dont like violence or war so wont fight back they would have been taken over by Russia within a week, the only reason they havent been is because they have fought back like a muddafucker.

And while it's a conflict i dont know much about, id expect if Russia knew they were in for such a fight they might not have even invaded.

Yeah sure these days there is always other deterrents in trade and sanctions etc but end of the day you still need a strong military or be part of a strong military alliance that will protect you or act as a deterrence.

As far as i know there is no imminent threat to Australia, but thats because we have a defence force and a strong alliance with the USA, but that defence force also needs to be kept updated, if we or the USA only had equipment from world war 1 the deterrence factor would be close to nothing

BTW. It is true that the waters are often muddied by lots of other things though and money money money, but all the above is also still true.

I think Ukraine and Russia is a bad example @indo.
There's history there.
Dont forget your Dutchies brushed us!!