The United States(!) of A
Of course you do.
You’re an authoritarian too. Letting other people make their own decisions is not something you particularly approve of. You think that people should be made to do what you think is best for them .
How does “ NO “ sound ?
"So by your own logic the only reason people would have to be out at night not covered by the existing rules was for exercise.......and of course no-one would go out for other reasons like to have a party would they? Regardless of the views of the police and the health officers I think Dan was right on this. Maybe he has a better grasp of how people might behave."
Sounds like a bit of stretch.
Even so if people are going to go party they will still do it, if getting from A to B by car it's no different, cops need to pull people over to know why they are out and about, so only advantage is people not getting from A to B under the excuse of exercise after curfew time.
But realistically if if was young and wanted to get on the piss with mates, you would just ensure you are already with friends before lockdown, and when i was young id probably break the rules just for the buzz anyway while if there was no curfew id just stay home and watch TV.
IMHO any benefits of are curfew are outweighed by the whole public perception of being over governed.
But honestly i don't really care if there are lockdowns or not, especially seeing as though im only in a stage 3 area
".......cops need to pull people over to know why they are out and about"
Which is MUCH easier if there are very few cars around because of the curfew,
".....when i was young id probably break the rules just for the buzz anyway "
Which supports my point.
"How does “ NO “ sound ?"
Like someone who would be happier in the US where lots more people might agree with you. Austraians are generally much more community orientated and willing to make the sacrifices necessary to save OTHER lives.
Truth! America can't handle the Truth.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-election/trump-bide...
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/09/09/trumps-unforgivable-s...
Spot on blowfly.
Sounds like an angry man-Karen to me.
No I don't want to wear a mask
No I don't want a curfew
No I don't want someone telling me I can't carry a loaded AR15 everywhere.
No I don't care if my "freedoms" massively impact others.
On the one hand, I get frustrated about Australia being a nanny state, but during a time of crisis, the last thing we need are a bunch of man-karens demanding their Free-dumb at the expense of everyone else.
“ Fact : Andrews curfew has nothing to do with Covid.”
That’s a very good point DudeSweetDudeSweet. So, since Daniel Andrews entered politics, his real agenda has been to stop people leaving their homes. Hitler etc.
Wow, thanks for the insight.
".......cops need to pull people over to know why they are out and about"
Which is MUCH easier if there are very few cars around because of the curfew,
But that's the whole point why would there be any less cars around?
You can only drive for three maybe four reasons
Those that need to go too or from work will still be on the roads.
The shops are not allowed to open at that time so you can't go buy anything.
And if you need to drive as a care assistant, it's the same deal as work, you can still do it with a permit.
That only leaves exercise, but it's never going to be a good excuse to drive anywhere at night to exercise anyway.
BTW. like i said i dont really care either way, im just debating for the sake of it, but i still think there is a decent argument that the curfew's are pretty much pointless and the negative flip side of how many view them is really not worth it.
Ha ha ha I'll give you that one Indo. I was wrong. Brain freeze
Blowfly ....the curfew has nothing to do with Covid.
No
Scientific
Justification.
Remember how you won’t let up about trusting the experts ? Yeah , well the experts say that there is
No
Scientific
Justification
For the curfew.
It has nothing to do with community spirit. Or beating Covid. Please , BB , I’ve already been forced to state this point twice and it should be obvious to anyone with no emphasis needed in the first place.
It’s political authoritarianism. You just can’t see how that’s even a negative because that’s how authoritarians think. You know another term for an empowered authoritarian who employs false justification to enact oppressive rules over a population ?
A dictator.
Anyway....waste of effort trying to reason with people like yourselves. Yourself and Vic Local are a couple of scared old men who want to dictate how others should live their lives. Classic ex- teacher antics from the both of you.
I can see why they have the curfew though, its just to doubly ensure people aren't out and about and sneaking over to visit people etc with the idea being it is easier to police. (no excuses)
But still.
Good that you've at least moved away from Trump and US politics, sweetie, after self-admitting you know NOTHING of either.
Though all things USA is the point of the thread per se.
So when did you move to Victoria? Must be a bummer at the mo.
But then as our Prime Marketer did say waaaaaaaay back, "We're all Victorians now" I guess.
Wrong thread, but...
Can I get a 'Dictator Dan' for twenty?
Burp!
Wait up, sweetie, you did blurt this out:
"The cucked Stockholm syndrome ‘tards"
Hoo boy! Our very own Sepp the Seppophile, the Don of empty pejorative buzzwords, would approve that word slurry, I wager.
God blast America!
Cottaging is so over. The new year will be all about the frottage.
Darn tootin right factotum...you keep them Vic varmints out.
Too late factotum...now the Pommie Punks are trashin' yer USA hovel.
1977 The Clash - I'm So Bored with the USA
1978 (Rare UK Surf Mod Punkz from tbb's singles collection) ...Special Treat!
The Smirks - Everybody's going to California ~ I'm OK UK
1980 UK SUBS - New York State Police
1986 The Stranglers - Big in America
Covids here for yonks, federal govt MUST take control not states,.
Hand washing facilities outside all public toilets and shops...how many toilets have door(s) to open after washing?
Surgical gloves worn when filling up at bowser or shopping and wash hands mandatory after paying.
Masks worn inside public buildings.
"A dictator." Dan the dictator ha ha ha ha. The man can't dicatate a letter without apologising to the typist. Look at him. He's a geek, a nerd. He has all the authority of an Indonesian freelance parking attendant. You been smoking that bad ganja again Dude? You know the heads that have your heart racing and make you paranoid. Go back to the bush heads mate, shake off the paranoia.
"....scared old men who want to dictate how others should live their lives"
As opposed to the prematurely retired Little Aussie Battler struggling in dark times to turn a dollar as a day trader? And just to show there are no hard feelings, here's a hint for you. Sell tech now.
Someone made a good point today re Victoria should cover the costs of their economic destruction, not the Australian tax-payer overall.
asinine
Vic, back to Sweden. I've had a bit of a look around and will post some good charts on the matter (when I've worked out how to do it).
Credit to the Financial Times for these charts.
Firstly Vic, your argument that Sweden's no-lockdown policy has been economically damaging relative to lockdown isn't supported by this particular forecast. It also doesn't make logical sense - How can an open economy be impacted more than a closed one?
This chart is also from the Financial Times.
Here's one you may feel supports lockdown, as it compares Sweden's death rate to its closest (locked down) neighbours, which have fared better. But a view I support is that Sweden will do better over the long term, as they now have greater herd immunity and won't experience second wave effects as badly as their neighbours.
Again, from the Financial Times:
Sweden is probably going to do better from here moving forward, at far lower cost.
"....greater herd immunity"
This shows a poor grasp of the concept. Herd immunity is pretty much an either/or situation. You either have it or you don't. At a certain level of immunity the chances of an infected individual spreading the virus approach zero, that's when you have herd immunity. Sweden has a population of around 10 million and has only had about 100,000 cases. The level necessary to reach herd immunity for this virus is about 90%. Go figure!
There is obviously a spectrum of risk Blowfly. Each additional person with antibodies removes a link in the contagion network. It's therefore not binary as you suggest.
A better counter argument would have been to point out that antibodies may not stay present indefinitely, therefore mitigating the immunity benefit. To which I would repeat that some is better than none.
Furthermore, if you are pro-lockdown Blowfly, do you advocate indefinite lockdown until a vaccine is not only available, but fully deployed? Even though that could never happen?
" There is obviously a spectrum of risk Blowfly. Each additional person with antibodies removes a link in the contagion network. It's therefore not binary as you suggest."
I will pass on your opinion to the College of Epidemiology. They will no doubt be glad to hear of a breakthrough that disproves a hundred years of carefully collected data.
Oh dear. I'll put it another way for you. Full herd immunity may not be achieved, but moving along the pathway to herd immunity is positive.
Your position on lock-down relative to the length of time it may take for a vaccine?
BB , Whist you are firing off emails to the College of Epidemiology you’d better pass on your “ fact “ about Covid requiring a 90 percent rate for herd immunity to work . Those silly buggers have it down as low as 43 percent.
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/06/200623111329.htm
another viewpoint on the swedish situation
https://www.news.com.au/world/europe/coronavirus-sweden-aussie-health-ex...
"....Those silly buggers have it down as low as 43 percent."
Ha ha....you changed the link because you decided to actually read it!
This is the original one:
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/06/200623111329.htm
....and this is what it says.
"https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/06/200623111329.htm"
The figure of 43% should be interpreted as an illustration rather than an exact value or even a best estimate."
A bigger problem though is that in the case of Sweden it wouldn't matter if it was 10% because only 1% of their population have been infected.
cdawg the length of the lockdown does not depenfd on the availability of a vaccine. It will be determined by the number of new cases and the infection rate, which needs to stay below 1.
That's a bit of an emotional argument. But I was interested in the quote from the New Scientist that states the mortality rate is 57 per 100,000. That's 0.06% - lower than influenza isn't it?
The other key point about Sweden is that they did make mistakes. Primarily they failed to protect their aged care facilities. Had they done a better job of protecting the vulnerable, their stats would be a lot better.
"cdawg the length of the lockdown does not depenfd on the availability of a vaccine. It will be determined by the number of new cases and the infection rate, which needs to stay below 1."
True, but whether it is better to constantly roll back into lockdowns, or live with it is the key decision.
" I was interested in the quote from the New Scientist that states the mortality rate is 57 per 100,000. That's 0.06%".
provide a link and I will look at it. Until then this is the John Hopkins data
For Profit Aged Care and herd immunity strategies are incompatible in Australia. They don't regulate, feed or care for them properly in normal times. Let the virus rip here and you would kill the lot of them.
That's observed case-fatality, so the mortality rate of those identified to have the virus. That will be higher for countries with less testing and vice-versa. Since the percentage of the population that is tested is different, it it not comparable across countries, or actually particularly meaningful.
0.06% I assume is based on the total population, which is a comparable constant across countries.
Oh and I am referencing something within the link that was posted above. Click on that link if you want to read it.
"That's observed case-fatality, so the mortality rate of those identified to have the virus. That will be higher for countries with less testing and vice-versa. Since the percentage of the population that is tested is different, it it not comparable across countries, or actually particularly meaningful.”
If you look at the graph you will see that the relationship is not as strong as you claim. This is because numerous other factors also influence the case-fatality rate.
https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/case-fatality-rate-vs-tests-per-confi...
“That's 0.06% - lower than influenza isn't it?”
“ Mortality for COVID-19 appears higher than for influenza, especially seasonal influenza. While the true mortality of COVID-19 will take some time to fully understand, the data we have so far indicate that the crude mortality ratio (the number of reported deaths divided by the reported cases) is between 3-4%, the infection mortality rate (the number of reported deaths divided by the number of infections) will be lower. For seasonal influenza, mortality is usually well below 0.1%.”
https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2019/question...
Interesting.
Don’t let BB’s doctored statistics confuse you.
In Australia- a country which counted a 20 year old OD death as Covid related - the death rate is 0.03 percent for those who have REGISTERED AS INFECTED*. 26565 infections / 797 deaths
This virus is a hoax. If it ever posed a problem that time is long since passed. Don’t accept the restrictions placed on your freedom.
You know who is determined to promote the illegitimate, illegal and FUCKEN UNACCEPTABLE lockdowns ? Old , scared fuckers who are in lockdown.
Open the country. Let people travel overseas and continue the LOGICAL halt on immigration.
* As opposed to how many people have been infected and untested .....probably multiples of those tested.
Gee, This is all so confusing. Who should I believe? On the one hand you have blowfly putting up graphs / links from the European Centre for Disease Control and the WHO, and on the other hand, blowin / DSDS says the figures are doctored and Covid 19 is a hoax. Blowin DSDS doesn't link anything.
Help me out folks. Who has more credibility?
cdawg.
Sweden. Pop 10m. Dead 5843. 580 per/m.
Aust: Pop 25m. Dead 788. 31.8 per/m
There should be no debate about the effectiveness of Sweden's response, but that doesn't stop News Limited pretending that black is white.
This is not journalism. It's bordering on criminal. https://www.news.com.au/world/europe/coronavirus-sweden-controversial-co...
wonder what the counter-factual would have been in Vicco with no lockdown?
anyone hazard a guess?
Worst of 2nd wave was 700+ a day and that was with some form of restriction still in place, total ball park guess here is you'd see days of 2000 or 3000 a day unrestricted, multiply this over 3 months of peak infection (total guess remember) = 270,000 upper case infections. At that point if 1 in 20 develops hospital type symptoms that's 13.5K in hospital. I'm sure real epidemiologists would have way better estimates.
Infections....lolololol.
Ffs....even the registered stats have our death rate at 0.03 percent of infected people.
FFS...you literally have way , way more chance of getting hit by a car and magnitudes more likelihood of getting eaten by a shark , Freeride. Don’t fall for this bullshit .
Live your life as though this virus doesn’t exist ....for all intents and purposes it does not exist if you are less than 85 years old and healthy.
You have waaaaaaaaaaaay more chance of catching a hectic strain of malaria when you are in Indo than catching the Covid bullshit at Lennox.
Ignore the “ Lock . Me . Up “ “ Victorian strange cunts......they’re weirdos !
Go read some old HYPE media headlines from a few months ago if you need a gauge to how much bullshit is peddled.
You know I was an early adapter ....within a month or two I started to realise it was politicised / media garbage. Get over this shit and lead your life. You’ve got more chance of getting killed by a swooping magpie than Covid .
BB and Vic Stupid want it to keep going cause they’re old , scared clowns who are on Jobkeeper.....ain’t that right VL ? You sell out old cunt . Old bastard was praying for the immigration / tourist Ponzi scheme to keep filling his coffers until the government largess started flowing. Ask him what he did for a living .
Haha you lads...
Anyway the EU Commissioner for Health and safety has said this:
"The way to contain this is by increased testing, contact tracing and isolation when needed. It is vitally important for society, for economies that we avoid generalised lockdowns," she said.
The commissioner added that in their efforts to curb the spread of the virus, member states should aim to strike a balance and always be mindful of the repercussions that public health measures have on populations and society as a whole.
Wake up Australia!!!
"....the death rate is 0.03 percent for those who have REGISTERED AS INFECTED*. 26565 infections / 797 deaths"
No Dude, wrong as usual. 797 is 3% of 26565.
Only wrong by a factor of 100. What harm could that do? Exactly what it was intended to do I expect......mislead people into thinking the virus is 100 times less harmful than it is. Shameful shit.
Given that the rest of your offensive rant is based on that misleading statistic, how about removing it and apologising? You post material that undermines important public health messaging, draw numerous erroneous and dangerous conclusions from it, insult those who disagree with you and generally carry on like an obnoxious turd. This, as if more evidence was needed, demonstrates that you lack the basic knowledge, and analytical skills, including primary level arithmetic, to contribute to responsible debate on this issue. Maybe restrict your future comments to things you appear to have at least basic knowledge of, fishing and surfing perhaps.
It's got very little impact on my life up here.
So not a factor I'm concerned about.
Different down in Vicco though.
"....wonder what the counter-factual would have been in Vicco with no lockdown?
anyone hazard a guess?"
European stlye second wave. No lockdown would have increased the infection rate and kept it higher than 1.
Dude drives the school bus....and his arithmetic lets him down!
Have not felt the need to comment but here's my take on it.Got a mate that is a captain of a fire station in NY he reckons that you do not in any way want to get this virus regardless of age or health,The Neurosis that follows is as much of a concern as other complications after infection.If Victoria had let it get further out of hand it would be horrendous in the long term.We all have rights and we all have to form our own path thru this,but at other peoples expense?It's easy for me as my location is unaffected and the same for some on here as well passing their two bob's worth.
Septic Tanks are going to Septic Tank