The United States(!) of A
Hmmmmmm…
- nothing to see / hear ;)
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/apr/30/russia-ukraine-war...
Interesting, written in 2014 when The Guardian seemed more independent and less beholden to the carefully crafted Narrative pouring over us all like an endless hollywood script. It was also writtem when key causal events were very current and not filtered through the narrative looking glass and so contrasts starkly with what The Guardian writes today.
Many journalists, commentators and others beholden to The Narrative better not read that. It might give them a moment or two of cognitive dissonance until, with much relief, their morning dose of narrative juice wipes away such disturbing doubts about the neat goody and baddy version of history they must espouse to earn their daily bread.
It’s a perspective that has hardly been ‘suppressed’. It’s in the MSM. Guardian has always been more inclined to that side of the political debate. Guardian partnered with greenwald on the snowden leaks.
Doesn’t take away from the fact that Pilger’s version of history above is, at best, misleading by omission and more likely, deliberately false to support a different ‘narrative’. You just like that narrative better.
It is possible to be critical of US foreign policy without giving a free pass to Russia’s actions.
Anyway, reporting this morning that Prigozhin’s private plane shot down over Russia. Maybe all BS, but interesting times in Russia.
More from the murky past that makes one wonder about US motives and choice of "associates".
https://www.channel4.com/news/ukraine-mccain-far-right-svoboda-anti-semi...
"Senator McCain later waved to protesters from the stage in Independence Square during a mass rally in Kiev, standing with Oleh Tyahnybok, leader of the anti-Semitic Svoboda party.
A 1999 report from Tel-Aviv University called the party: “an extremist, right-wing, nationalist organization which emphasizes its identification with the ideology of German National Socialism”."
All good?
Supafreak wrote:I like John Pilger , don’t know if he’s totally correct but he certainly gets ya thinking ………criticism welcome https://www.eurasiareview.com/22082023-john-pilger-silencing-the-lambs-h...
Reckon "gets ya thinking" is the best possible compliment for Pilger. He offers an alternative to the dominant narrative, but seems like in his haste to demonise he props up equally odious solutions. Nuance ain't his strong suit. At times he's like the Steven Spielberg of documentaries.
Years ago, I watched him present a film at the Dendy Newtown, the subject US intervention in Central and South America, which is fair game, however he championed Hugo Chavez (film included an interview from memory). The rationale being: If they're bad, then he's good.
An awkward Q&A followed when a Venezuelan expat took him to task.
Can see similar binary thinking in his take on US China relations. US bad, China good. US violent, China peaceful - despite obvious aggressions and inconsistencies: Tibet, Uighurs, persecution of non-Han, fabricating the Nine-Dash Line, canonizing 'The Art of War', etc.
Maybe binary thinking to counter binary thinking…
US good, China bad etc. Plenty of false equivalence always at play.
…The United States(!) of A
- it is possible to be critical of US foreign policy… without misleading by omission ;)
One word: coup d’état
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So much for Yevgeny. He was pretty game going back to Russia.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-08-24/wagner-chief-yevgeny-prigozhin-mo...
A lot of Ukrainians take exception to that characterisation JF. Again, the denial of agency of Ukrainian identity and self-determination by a sector of western academia / commentators.
A different take is that the replacement of a Russia-friendly / Russia-deferential regime in Ukraine was a matter of time. As it probably is in Belarus and Georgia.
Support for European integration in Ukraine is growing. As is support for joining NATO.
Political / social unity is up. Corruption is down. Democracy is up.
None of that works in Russia’s favour.
Haha..
‘Corruption is down. Democracy is up’… ;);)
And whilst the misappropriation of billions of dollars of weaponry and aid continues, and the country keeps sending hundreds of thousands of it’s people to be unnecessarily slaughtered…
Corruption is down ?
Democracy is up ? … oh… yes… democratic war ;)
You’re as big a comedian as zelensky.
- patriot she hulks unite ! This is an abomination (what everybody else is doing except us).
And the war of democratic illusion continues ;)
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&pp=ygUUYWJvbWluYXRpb24gc2hlIGh1bGs%3D You reading McGregor again?
“Sending” its troops to be slaughtered….
Sending them where? To Ukraine? Is that actually ‘sending’ them? Or is someone else ‘sending’ their troops to a sovereign country, to illegally annex it?
Take a step back big fella. There’s a forest you’re missing.
Haha…
Sending them to the frontlines, u know that.
Is the big forest the forest of destroying another country… ‘democratically’ escalating and facilitating more war ? Another foreign war.
and…‘Take a step back’ as in nato taking a step back… towards Russia ;)
- ‘Take a step back’ as in step into line and follow orders ;)
…not sure ppl (like yourself) should be offering tips on how to ‘take a step back’. Really. How many steps back have the US and their minions taken in this abomination ;)
Same procedure, same playbook… you know …’stepping back’ to further ‘democracy’… stepping back by ordering others to step forward ;)
Someone else is sending someone else’s troops to fight their proxy war. That’s a fact. Try and pretend to go back to the sovereignty argument all u want, kind of like saying ‘democracy is up’ haha fark. ‘Corruption is down’… sure thing it is - what, since about two weeks ago when zelensky cleared certain ranks and military recruiters etc due to … ummm … corruption.
Yes. Democracy is well and alive in Ukraine. Just like in the US. $$$
- and the lauded counter offensive certainly has taken a step back ;)
War is a racket. You know that. I know that. Even the warmongers know that…
- but, but, but … it’s democratic.
Numpty on bro ;)
Here is my theory on The Narrative- the hollywood style script on world events that streams out to us all through the media, to entertain, but also tell the story that suits those in power for their immediate and longer term goals.
The Dominant Empire With Massive Media Control Strategy:
An empire with massively greater control over the means of communication to governments, media and the public has much greater means, motive and opportunity to control and shift narratives to their favour. The temptation to do so is strong, the logic of doing so is as well. and, the benefits reaped are also great.
With only self imposed boundaries and little consequence to credibility at home and abroad of being found to be wrong (because evidence of misinformation or exaggeration can be buried or deflected), the likelihood of straying far from the truth is quite high.
The Minor Empire With Limited Media Projection Strategy:
Here the reverse is true. Limited means of communication to governments and via the mass media makes it much harder to shift narratives to their favour. And, the consequences of obvious misinformation through loss credibility in their own population and to external geopolitical parties is high as they could be beaten up endlessly in the Dominant Empire's media for such slip ups.
They therefore have a stronger incentive, more often than not, to play the straight man - to stick closer to the truth.
Imagine being up against a flamboyant, well known, high profile and loose-with-the-truth, over promising salesman competing for business in some market. Would you try to out bullshit them? Or might it be better to stick close to the facts, be persistently knowledgeable and credible and deliver on promises?
Hence, skepticism and spin detection is essential if you consume any news. Or else just submit to the marix or maybe even just tune out.
The real world seems to support my theory.
1. WMD in Iraq anyone? Fell apart but served its purpose.
2. More recently - endless Russia is brittle, incompetent, poorly led, will run out of missiles, will be broken by sanctions and "the finger points at Russia" for the blown up gas pipeline (until months later they say Ukraine did it), pushing a story on 7 to 1 casualty rates in Ukraine's favour - the reverse of what analysis and missile power dominance and attacker / defender battle history says is likely? Falling apart right now.
The danger for the dominant Empire is over-using their privileged communication power position - to end up straying into the territory of being known as an Empire of Lies which does not help their cause.
One critique I have heard quite a bit lately of the US from multiple perspectives is that they seem to have no boundaries or strong ties to logic or concern with competence:
- in how they use and abuse their reserve currency position
- in their lack of government budget control
- in how they manage their banking system
- in how they use interest rates (zero provides no price signal)
- in pursuit of Trump by any means
- in their geopolitical moves
- in the political debate in Washington
- in willingness to continue to impose narratives at odds with emerging facts in changing world events (covid)
- etc.
History is littered with disasters when empires. kings, emperors as well as religions and cults go too far and detach from reality, logic and the best interests of their people.
Nice work frog…
‘Empire of Lies’ - yep ;)
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Mask mandates are returning to parts of the US.
People have learned nothing from the last few years of obvious lies and are mostly compliant.
Australia will soon follow.
What are YOU gonna do this time around, “punk”?
You must obey ;)
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Yes, JF democracy is up, corruption is down.
But this post is for anyone else that is interested in cutting through the one-eyed, pro-Russia stuff you post. And yes, it’s pro-Russia. Most of the stuff you post mirrors closely, if not verbatim, Russian talking points.
Corruption. Ukraine has a lot of problems, but actions like firing corrupt officials are actually a tangible demonstration of improving process. Not the inverse.
So instead of picking an example, and clearly misinterpreting it, how about you follow this handy link and have a look at changes over time.
https://www.transparency.org/en/cpi/2013/index/ukr
will show you the change from 2013 to now.
Democracy:
Have a look at freedom house.org and go back through the records year by year. Go back to 2009 and work forward. Then overlay that with political leadership. It’s pretty dire, but the depths were in the years 2012 - 2014.
https://www.refworld.org/docid/5113b8aec.html 2013
https://freedomhouse.org/country/ukraine/nations-transit/2015
https://freedomhouse.org/country/ukraine/nations-transit/2020
https://freedomhouse.org/country/ukraine/nations-transit/2023
an oft quoted issue is the relative decline in votes for Russia-aligned political parties after 2014, held up to be an outcome of political repression. This ignores the fact that in 2014 Russia annexed Crimea and was conducting a proxy / secessionist war in the east. So, the traditional voting base for Russia aligned parties was reduced…. Because a large part of that base, in both population and in electoral district terms, was no longer voting in Ukrainian elections. So, it then a little disingenuous to use that decline in votes as a casus belli.
(For shits and giggles do the same with Russia btw)
This is a far broader and more complex issue than US puppetry or US-Russia rivalry. Its late stage imperial decline, its demographic, its tension over European vs Eurasian identity. It’s not really about NATO and never really was. I mean, Finland’s in NATO now but Russia hasn’t said boo. That’s a convenient excuse, but of all the tools of policy that a government has, military action is the worst. And that goes for the US too.
So if you’re not JF, click away on those links. They’re not all pretty. It’s a hot mess, Ukraine has plenty problems, but the trend lines WERE going in the right direction. And still generally are, despite the war. Hence the invasion to change the regime… because you can’t have a former Soviet state actually succeeding outside the Russian sphere of influence can you? Imagine the precedent…
I’m not pro russian - understandable assumption on your behalf, tho.
And some interesting stuff there…
- but if you’re gonna equate anything ukraine with ‘succeeding’… and also try throwing accusations of one eyed angles, maybe lessen your commitment to the imaginary king and country crusade ;)
- you have weird wargasms every time something happens like a bridge attack or a russian warship getting hit etc…
(I do get it if you’re still on the payroll)
Wargasm.
That’s actually funny. Mind if I borrow it?
I’d like to think I’m fairly critical of strategy, decisions and use of military force. I’ve seen it used badly. I’ve seen it used well. You routinely mischaracterise my position on a few things - US invasion of Iraq probably most often.
Didn’t I say ‘Ukraine has a lot of problems, hot mess, not pretty’ etc etc in that last post? Not that they’re a success story.
You did say Ukraine has a lot of problems, hot mess, not pretty etc etc
- and that’s true.
…but this: ‘Hence the invasion to change the regime… because you can’t have a former Soviet state actually succeeding outside the Russian sphere of influence can you?’
- well, I agree with the sentiment, and it’s a fair remark considering particular motives… just not the bit about ‘succeeding’, even if it’s just the hypothetical inference of it happening. ‘Success’ has a fairly vague definition just now, for everyone involved…
Maybe I’m less forgiving of US influence / interference as a result of other recent misadventures….
- after all, there’s a way to go yet.
And… wargasm… sure, it’s all yours ;)
JF, wargasm isn’t really yours to give away though is it?
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Good song, heard it back in the day…
Actually hadn’t given it a second thought, was just part of the banter.
- my bad, if it makes u feel any better ;)
Didn’t know there was a copyright enforcer on the prowl…
- all rights and credit to L7 and their creation ;)
Back to the US of A…
Gonna be interesting to see how pumpkin head’s supporters respond to him being arrested. Meme makers must be salivating… the mug shot has big potential - magazine covers, shirts etc. $$$
- giuliani looks like a happy soul in his pic… a true defender of liberty and freedom… and the logistical genius behind organising the infamous press conference about election fraud at the ‘four seasons’ landscape supplies hotel ;)
https://www.news.com.au/world/north-america/us-politics/donald-trump-to-...
Going Live...Prez Motorcade cruisin' down the Highway to Hell
Going Live...Prez Motorcade cruisin' down the Highway to Hell
Going Live...Prez Motorcade cruisin' down the Highway to Hell
What a mug...
a vid for frogman, gsco, and anyone else who's picked up on these crazy narrative control times we are living in...
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and before you push enter on that tired old phrase 'conspiracy theory'...
again...
as the vid says, it's all publicly available information
sort of...
Means, motive and opportunity.
Massive means, more and more opportunity. That just leaves motivation. Soros, as just one recent visible example, has proven that playing global "chess" is a highly appealing game to certain personalities.
But Soros, Gates etc are just the exciteable newbies to the game. They are still naive enough to want the limelight ....
The massive old money who dominate the game has long since realised it is best to work in the shadows.
What would be intriguiing to know is how the dominant old money dynasties sustain vitality, motivation and competence through the generations. Succession issues would dissipate many powerful families and groups. But some would somehow have found a way to test the mettle of the new generation and select the future leaders and to weed out the wayward son (Hunter Biden) types.
They would also have created structures that are sustainable over time pulling in paid expertise. Rhodes Scholarships are much more than meets the eye for example, and are just part of a whole system of power projection that Cecil Rhodes set up with ongoing worldwide ambitions beyond his lifetime. Bob Hawke & Tony Abbott are proof of his schemes multi genetational reach.
Klaus Schwab's WEF is another current example as his attempt at immortality through influence now and, in his deepest hopes, one would expect, for centuries to come.
Maybe the organisations set up develop a life of their own with just the massive trust fund wealth sustaining them virtually forever? Maybe these go a bit feral over time and deviate from the "good" works their founders intended under strange new leaders attracted by such power?
All of the above is just the way of money and power over human history. But the tools grow ever more powerful.
In the big club, nterestingly it is not all matey matey. There is a school of thought that the USA old money is in serious conflict with old Europe big money at the moment for power over central banking. If this is true, the Fed might hold interest rates high in part to stuff up the European central bank to the private US banks behind the federal reserves favour.
Big games we see but shadows of....
An interesting trail $$$
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- and this vid below… 11.50 mark ;)
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June : Xman Overlord Musk began uploading his super powers to RFK...Polls Skyrocketed
Silver Surfer got on board for the ride...
https://www.the-independent.com/news/world/americas/us-politics/rfk-jr-e...
https://edition.cnn.com/2023/06/05/tech/elon-musk-robert-f-kennedy-jr-tw...
Aug :
Xman upgrades Trump's twitter blue with a "NeXt Level" Hot Shot of X Serum.
Trump's Face turns into an X...but no one notices...shh!
You'd like to think tbb was joking...check Trump's [NeXt Level] X face.
Move aside seat warmer RFK.
Trump's ultimate X Tribute to X sponsor...Sell yer Soul....X
https://www.theverge.com/2023/8/24/23468581/donald-trump-twitter-x-retur...
X Men...NeXt Level Never Surrender Xtinction Rebellion!
Phase 1 : Tuckers X Tea Party with Trump drowns out GOP wannabe resistance force.
https://time.com/6307881/shunning-the-gop-debate-for-tucker-carlson-trum...
https://secure.winred.com/save-america-joint-fundraising-committee/bf1d2...
Is Trump Transylvanian Twisting his face to the Monster Mash
Did Trump pirate Bobby's Monster Vids for his shit hot sour witching hour look!
Xmen Reserection > The Monster Swim.
sypkan wrote:a vid for frogman, gsco, and anyone else who's picked up on these crazy narrative control times we are living in...
Here you go Sypy, you want the grand-daddy of that one?
Also: US elections, who gets arrested, arrested presidential candidate still campaigning, stopping counting in the middle of the night etc - none of it matters any more. You think if Trump gets in again he'll get to pull out of presence in any deployed areas? Geopolitics is running the show now and all the factions are monsters, we just hope for a more tolerant monster.
;)
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&pp=ygUNa3lsZSBkdW5uaWdhbg%3D%3D VJ, Follow the money. Large revolutions cost a lot of money. The vid shows they can be very profitable for supporting bankers and savvy revolutionaries.
Some key Russian historical events that affected their mindset to feel like a target for plunderers more than a little.
1917
Trojan Horse number one full of "revolutionaries" (plunderers) sent from the West to (en)s(l)ave the workers was called "communism". Many decades of chaos and hell followed.
1991
Trojan Horse number two full of spooky privatisation consultants (plunderers) sent from the West to free the workers and teach them about private enterprise was called "freedom and democracy". A decade of chaos and hell followed.
So when a large metal horse appeared on the western horizon bristling with guns, with a NATO logo on it, a decade ago promising security and peace was it just maybe a case of twice bitten thrice shy?
- ghost in the machine…
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Geez thanks Supa, that cannot now be unseen. I feel I need to wash my eyes…
Listen if you are comfortable to blurr the conventional goody / baddy narratives of war and geopolitics as set out in the history books and the MSM forever.
Otherwise, just stay on the vanilla narrative train track and cheer on the goodies as they fight those nasty baddies wherever the media tells us they are that year or month. Etarip should watch it after he retires to avoid a severe case of cognitive dissonance. Although, I suspect he knows more than he lets on about the murkyness out there.
The video below is an interview with the man who did very extensive detailed research and published books into the money flows and other records behind the business and financial interests of Wall St (big US brand names) supporting both sides in WWII, the Korean War, the Cold War and Vietnam.
Money making for big big $$$s and geopolitical chess (visible and hidden) are THE game the big boys like to play. The "rules based order" are just what suits them on the day. There are mutiple players, many games running similtaneously, some in plain sight, mostly hidden, often aligned, sometimes in conflict, sometimes very smart, often not so smart, some pawns go feral or plans stuff up. But key players know how to win regardless of the outcome.
Of course all such "mischief" is a thing of the past ; )
?feature=shared Who said any of this is new news?
Good / baddy narrative goes both ways. You see the US as the baddy. It’s just doing it’s thing. Russia is doing what it does, and what it’s always done. All of this is a blip on the radar of antiquity.
I’ve got enough of a grasp on history to take a broad view of all of this. Spending decades studying helps. I’m not going to ‘retire’ from reading, engaging in discussion, having my opinions challenged, reframing questions, beliefs and dogmas. Seems like you want everyone to jump onto your bandwagon. I think you make some reasonable points, you’re maybe stronger in your macro economics than you are in your geopolitics. Not sure why your throwing shade. Or trying to.
They’re all playing. They all benefit, or lose, or lose from the system. They exert influence where they can, they undermine what they can in their favour. Rules based order is the new name for pax romanica, or Britannia or whatever comes next.
You post stuff like this is an epiphany.
Years ago I read quite a lot of weighty books on WWI and WWII as well as on key leaders such Churchill, Stalin, the rise of Hitler and the Russian Revolution.
Despite this a lot of stuff that Sutton details was an epiphany to me when I came across it, particularly in terms of the scale of US / UK involvement on both sides of the and how systematic and cynical it all was.
Clearly much had been either been ommitted, substantially downplayed, touched on lightly, sanitised etc. leaving the casual reader, such as myself, unaware as to the full story and with the goody / baddy story more or less intact.
The sanitised version of these events totally dominates to this day.
Similarly, the sanitised and 'narrativised' version of the current conflict dominates in the media. And from all accounts seems to also have a large sway over quite a lot of the political and military decisions. The real world is proving belief in scripted narratives over realities makes for pretty shitty decisons with Ukraine suffering the most.
Mitt Romney recently stated;
"We’re losing no lives in Ukraine. And the Ukrainians are fighting heroically against Russia, that has 1,500 nuclear weapons aimed at us. So, we are diminishing and devastating the Russian military for a very small amount of money.”
That must be music to the Ukrainian widows' and weeping mothers' ears.
Etarip, I only mentioned you because you often seemed to defend the "approved" narrative on current events as your defaut position when you obviously are too knowledgeable to take such a narrow view.
My geopolitical view is pretty simple - things are murky, complex and don't trust neat narratives from any side.
The quicker, easiest and most morally correct solution to the war in Ukraine is for Russia to return to the 2013 borders. The second best option is to return to 2014 borders.
Just trying to picture Blinken or Nuland pitching your solution to Putin. A little lacking in battlefield leverage and benefits to sell at the moment and the moral argument of respecting other countries sovereignty and borders might ring a little hollow coming from the US. Oh, and trust might be a little fragile after Minsk. Otherwise a winner.
It may be more appropriate to pitch the question to blinken and nuland (and zelensky) about the morally correct solution regarding the sovereignty of Palestine ;););)
If we wanna pretend to play the ‘return to old borders’ gimmick… kind of odd that the big players don’t want those rules applied to the fake homeland, yet place emphasis on the necessity of such demands to others…
Sovereignty ? Invasion ? Occupation ?
- rules based order (according to and only applicable to some)…
It’s almost laughable in it’s arrogance and absurdity ;)
Mexico is keen to get the USA to give back California, Arizona, Nevada, New Mexico etc. and it seems the morally correct solution given these parts of Mexico were taken by force by the US in the 1846 / 48 war.
Perhaps Putin could suggest that as a first step to prove the US's new seriousness about having international relations based around a respect for borders, sovereignty and a rules based order. Or maybe just removing US bases from Syria and Iraq would be a quicker option. Then negotiations could begin in good faith. Nuland's diplomatic charm and enthusiasm for peace ould do the rest.
;)
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VIDEO: Proud Boys leader sentenced to 17 years in prison over Capitol riots. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-09-01/proud-boys-leader-sentenced-to-17.... https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-09-01/proud-boys-sentenced-to-prison-ov...
Septic Tanks are going to Septic Tank