Interesting stuff

You're amazing Vic, a sage and a man amongst men, dignified and strong and at the same time somehow heroic.

Steady on there AndyM.

No seriously mate, yours is a statue which will be neither toppled nor defaced, standing for all eternity, shining like a beacon of righteousness in a sea of immorality.

I've made myself moist.

Sweet, maybe the $50 mil Scotty from Marketting has budgeted for the Cook statue in Cronulla can be sent to Victoria so people visiting Bells can be greeted with 2 magnificent Bronze statues of me at the entrance to the reserve?

And ordinary Australians can kneel and pray on a nightly basis before a statue of your likeness set up in their rumpus rooms.

Maybe one of you in full flight.

Hey, I resemble that comment

From the Blowie files, Vic (all just a quick DuckDuckGo away):

"Facto , accepting that the universities were cornered into finding a new source of funding is a world away from allowing themselves to be captured by a repressive foreign communist dictatorship.

There’s 200 odd nations in the world from which to receive international students. That these supposed pinnacles of Western wisdom were either too ignorant or too greedy to prevent concentrating their students from a single country."

- Blowin

After being challenged on his entirely innocent (I'm sure) and erroneous conflation of Chinese = international students, he posted a link to a SBS story on a specific report from the "libertarian think tank, the Centre for Independent Studies":

Unfortunately it contained:

"The report found that approximately 10 per cent of all students currently at an Australian university come from China, compared to international students more broadly, which account for 25 per cent."

Reading is underrated.

"Yes, over reliance on international students.

Surely you'd be stoked you can point your finger at a wider range of foreigners, Blow Blow?

Why limit yourself?"

- me.

I see Morrison has doubled the cost of Arts degrees from next year and here I was thinking we needed more teachers who routinely undertake a double degree Arts/Education. Clearly students nolonger need history or social sciences or geography or languages or literature just maths and science - how good is Australia? further down the corporate bog hole or what?

The teaching component of the degree comes down in cost.

My wife went back & did a post grad Dip Ed as the Arts Degree wasn’t cutting it in the employment stakes. Her majors were visual arts & Australian studies.

I know very little about university or degrees.

But from all the people i know that did go to uni, it always seems they always seem do arts degree's as say they had no idea what they want to do, then most i know don't really use them, just get everyday jobs or stay at home mums.

I guess further education no matter what it is never hurts though.

I thought they didn't have to pay the hec's debt back until they earn a certain amount anyway?.

Basically Indo, in my understanding, an Arts degree alone is not particularly highly regarded these days. For it to have any clout it needs to be combined with another discipline such as one of the sciences or law, finance or something like that. A lot of Arts degrees that combine with very niche fields like anthropology, classical studies, language, gender, history etc. pretty much relegates the student into academia as there are very few opportunities out in the real world.

Hence why the government is making some STEM degrees cheaper and Arts and related degrees more expensive.

That's my take but happy to be corrected or have anything added on to what I said.

And correct- you can never have enough education.

Yeah okay, i dont know much about it, i just know i met lots of people that do art degrees and never really use them.

I wonder what the loss is to government for hec's debts that never get paid back, it would have to be huge.

BTW. did this Cyber attack thing get a mention yesterday?

Seems China rejects accusations (naturally) lot of crazy shit going on this year that's for sure.

https://7news.com.au/lifestyle/health-wellbeing/china-rejects-accusation...

"Basically Indo, in my understanding, an Arts degree alone is not particularly highly regarded these days. For it to have any clout it needs to be combined with another discipline such as one of the sciences or law, finance or something like that. A lot of Arts degrees that combine with very niche fields like anthropology, classical studies, language, gender, history etc. pretty much relegates the student into academia as there are very few opportunities out in the real world.

Hence why the government is making some STEM degrees cheaper and Arts and related degrees more expensive."

good little rundown zenman

the last paragraph would seem to be prudent and even visionary considering what we are heading into

like it or not, we no longer have and endless supply of chinese doctors and engineers, same with a heap of other imported labour. aussies are gonna have to step up and do the hard degrees or we're basically fucked

populate or perish is very last century

"And correct- you can never have enough education."

this is also the case, my arts degree has been an invaluable waste of time...

Wow Zenagain, way to dismiss a bunch of really important professions stemming from arts degrees.
If you'd done an arts degree, maybe you'd recongnise a really disturbing trend in modern society: the willingness of people to dismiss things they don't understand.Not exactly working out well with Covid 19 in certain countries.
Historians and anthropologists understand how societies work, rise and fall. Maybe we should be paying more attention to them during this current time. If you'd specialised in these areas, maybe you'd understand the demise of the USA as a superpower.
Historians know that dictatorships rise out economic ruin. Perhaps we should listen to them now.
Arts degrees give people wisdom, one being, understanding their own limitations. Trump hasn't done an arts degree, and he is completely ignorant about his own country's demise and the ramifications of that going forward. TBPH, we need more historians and anthropologist (especially in positions of power) rather than less of them.

Scomo’s view of arts degrees
https://images.app.goo.gl/uNVjM6kQXz2uhhSA7

.

Gotta agree with you there about arts degrees, Viclocal. Education’s gonna suffer; you need an arts degree to teach stuff like English and history, don’t you?

"...Historians and anthropologists understand how societies work, rise and fall. Maybe we should be paying more attention to them during this current time.
If you'd specialised in these areas, maybe you'd understand the demise of the USA as a superpower."

I don't think you need specialise in these areas to understand the demise of the USA as a superpower. the world is changing fast, it's plain for all to see, but nothing is inevitable. 'the virus' has cleared that one up

"Historians know that dictatorships rise out economic ruin. Perhaps we should listen to them now."

yes, we probably should listen to them now, accept the demise of the USA, and plan accordingly for a different world

that does not mean we have to bend over, and submit to the chinese overlords, who are so clearly chipping away at our all of our institutions, and have been for quite some time. decades even

decades of stealing all that is good about 'the developed world', whilst flouting every single rule that endeavours to make the developed world remotely fair

"...Arts degrees give people wisdom, one being, understanding their own limitations. Trump hasn't done an arts degree, and he is completely ignorant about his own country's demise"

completely ignorant?

or just not willing to sit back, and watch the billionaires he rails against continue to facilitate an unhealthy relationship that they are so entreched in?

". and the ramifications of that going forward. TBPH, we need more historians and anthropologist (especially in positions of power) rather than less of them."

the number of baristas by day, social media competitor by night, tenuously employed experts, would suggest otherwise...

... its the path for the average...

the mediocre meritocracy

Well there you go again Vic, hypothesising AGAIN. I did not dismiss these degrees at all. I merely stated in terms of employment (even though ,I FFS didn't expressly state employment) that the sad reality of today is that Arts degrees on their own, without being combined with some other discipline either technical, legal, financial or scientific carry very little weight in terms of securing meaningful employment outside of academia. I did not dismiss them, nor did i give an opinion whether right of wrong.

And you have no fucking idea what I have studied or my level of tertiary education. But my guess is you have an Arts degree or Grad Dip. or something along those lines? Correct?

For the record, I value and respect all aspects of education and I strongly believe that an educated, functioning society should not disregard humanities or the arts in favour of STEM degrees.

Mate, you need to pull your head out of your arse, seriously. Your need to be right all the time clouds your perception and judgement. Fuck, I would hate to be at a BBQ with you, it would get real boring real quick.

Now, i'm going to put my Bachelor of Colour Therapy to good use and nip out and get some lunch.

Carry on chaps.

And for crying out loud, I was trying to explain to Indo.

What the hell has it got to do with Trump? Geez man, get a life.

Let me give you blokes a little example on why arts degrees matter.
The CCP has a basic understanding with the Chinese people. The government looks after the economy and keeps living standards rising, and the people ignore the lack of democracy and the human rights abuses. It's bread and circuses stuff. (look up "bread and circuses" if you don't understand this phrase).
The university system in China doesn't produce many humanities graduates who are willing to hold the CCP to account. There's still pockets of western style academic freedom in HK, but it's getting rubbed out by the CCP. The Chinese university system is set up to produce large numbers of highly skilled engineers / scientists / IT professionals etc to keep the economy going.
In Australia, humanities students (post graduates) go on to do research that creates problems for governments. Expert advice and criticism is not what this government wants to hear.
When democracy is under threat, it's the lawyers and the journalists (arts graduates) who are on the front line of defending hard won civil and political rights.
Make no mistake, the government increasing the cost of humanities degrees by up to 113% is part of a culture war. The government simply wants to minimise their critics in the future. Humanities students are unworthy, while STEM students are worthy. Australia is moving towards a Chinese-style tertiary education system, with less academic rigour, less academic freedoms, and more of a high tech TAFE style. It's Bread and circuses down under my friends.
You blokes should be cheering on the arts and humanities graduates. They are the ones who will defend western liberalism the most vigorously.

pointing out some humurous realities of arts degrees doesn't mean they don't matter. its just how shit's developed, which is not surprising considering its been honed to do so so intuitively

you're addicted to a sloppy unsustainable model that has developed through good times, big change is here, they've prepped us for that

the end of history is dead

along with your 'services economy' pipedream unfortunately

or fortunately...

Trump had his own university.

https://www.americanprogress.org/issues/education-postsecondary/reports/...

Grifter...grifter...grifter.

LOL

"The end of history..."

Can you explain that Sypkan?

And the "it's dead" part.

Well thanks for the lecture that wasn't asked for Vic.

And all those Chinese students should feel right at home in our tertiary system based on the Chinese model.

And that's right Syppy, I never said that they don't matter, i said that's the sad reality of what is happening. Or maybe Vic you can point out where I was bagging the arts? Again, happy to stand corrected.

Btw, had a pasta with a kind of beef ragout sauce.

Shithouse.

the LNP education bill will never pass. they know it. it's just being thrown out as distraction. wedging and all that shit.

as for the value of stem subjects...so who here has recently graduated with an undergrad degree in say maths, biology or chemistry? how are your work prospects? not that good, right?

you know what it means facto

and its dead because a heap of assumptions some of you guys make have been proven time and again to be wrong

I don't dispute any of that chook

its just a matter of realities that the uni system is in for a correction of sorts. the whole student migrant worker program just got way too sloppy

and desperate

Communications is resurgent. It's becoming increasingly obvious that companies value people that can communicate and negotiate effectively, both written and verbal and not just in a social media landscape..

The pendulum swings both ways chook. That's why a good mate of mine landed a very good job recently working on national infrastructure projects. His field of expertise is logistics but he's kinda carved out a niche in stakeholder management and risk assessment. Basically he's a conduit between all vested parties as he can communicate effectively on all levels and is seen as a valuable cog to keep the projects moving forward. Paid handsomely to do it too.

I put it to you, Sypkan, that you do not know what it means.

Exhibit A:

"And its dead because a heap of assumptions some of you guys make..."

Who are the "you guys" you speak of? On here??

well viclocal no.1 for a start

fomerly blindboy no.1

and you get in on it too, occasionally...

though you're much more evasive

Interesting you pointed to communications Z.
I graduated with an honours year in this field 15 years. There was literally no work opportunities, with media companies firing staff by the hundreds. Despite very high post-graduate marks and a foreign language, I couldn't even get an interview for an entry level position at SBS.
There's plenty of work now for communications graduates for the dark side: Public Relations. It's all about protecting vested interests by hiding the truth not uncovering it. Plenty of PR work involves building up vast databases as a weapon to keep the status quo, or writing highly dubious reports for the person paying the bills.
Call me crazy, but I still have the old fashion notion that university students should somehow serve the public after graduating. PR often involves helping vested interests at the expense of the common good. Not my cup of tea.

Here you go guys.
https://www.smh.com.au/national/proposed-overhaul-of-university-fees-not...
Tim Soutphommasane makes some very good points about the re-making of our university system. Well worth a read.

Bullshit, Sepp.

Using a term wihout knowing its meaning or context renders it as simple empty pejorative.

Your specialty.

tim would be right

the thing is though, it's the left that picks 'the culture wars' by definition...

are the public feeling 'served'?

bullshit facto

it just describes a certain world view...

no perjorative intended

...just a world view difficult to believe some are (still) vehemently grasping to

ya know, after 'the virus' and all

it was a world view already well under brutal attack...

and xi just keeps on letting youse down

Would you believe, I've actually met and chatted to briefly five of the seven PM's in that pic?

Coolest one was Keating. Wonder if you can guess who tied for the biggest pricks?

I met Gough once too. I'm loose friends with one of his grandsons. Gough was a champ and funny too.

And who do you reckon came across as the dodgiest?