Vids other than surfing thread (cool doccos, movies etc)

Amazing Udo. I see that reef breaking on the horizon during big swells. Those guys are on another level spear fishing out there.

History never repeats, I tell myself before I go to sleep...

I haven’t had a chance to watch those vids yet but I’m just curious- Exactly what is it that modern anarchism means to yourself ? What type of society do you envision when you hope for an anarchist world in 2020 ?

Is it some form of collective ? Or pure individualism ? Or still retaining government of some form ?

collective -- it's basically community level of providing services. it's nothing particularly radical or subversise. it's got more in common with smalll town australia of old, than the cliched, radical 'smash the state' stuff.

there have been a few recent examples of anarchists collectives in spain, with communities taking over trash and other services when the government failed to do so.

the criticism then is that such small scale models don't work for larger social units that are required for governing a country.

some local examples of anarcho activities are probably the diy doof party scene...people creating ' temporary semi-autonmous zones'.

Surely there’s more to it than that ? Has it ever been successfully employed to run a nation ?

nope, that's pretty much all there is to anarcho-syndicalism.
there is no anarchist orthodoxy, like with marxism, so you'll easily find people with a wide variety of views. i guess the one key idea is that all power corrupts.

it's never been employed at a country-wide level.
as i said, the main criticism is that anarchism doesn't provide a political answer as it only works at small local levels.
recent (last ten years) financial troubles in greece and spain saw the rise of anarchist groups providing services and they are a good example of how anarchism functions.

Galt's gulch.

Are you calling for the great strike of the men of the mind VJ?

Swillnutters unite!

I’m interested in any real world propositions as to which form it’d take . There seems to be a legitimate cadre of those who promote anarchism and I’d like to hear how they’d deploy the ideology in the real world.

Give an example. Take a state of Australia- if you would even recognise states or territories ?- and explain which parts of government would be eradicated and how they’d be replaced.

Would private property exist ? Survival of the fittest ? Who runs the collective ?

Strike!

https://www.vice.com/en/article/bn53b3/atlas-mugged-922-v21n10

"We are very happy to offer the respite from the Western world of oppressive governments to freedom-minded people in which they can build a new, more prosperous community..." or so said the 'oppressed' über-capitalist con men!

Idiots. Atlas shat.

History tells us that any more wide scale anarchist projects are repressed, brutally in most cases, rather than 'fail' of their own accord. Check the vids!

Example: The Paris Commune in 1871, or revolutionary Catalonia from 1936 - 39, let alone the anarchist involvement and subsequent repression in the Mexican and Russian revolutions.

Today in Mexico, the Rebel Zapatista Autonomous Municipalities in the Chiapas state have been in place since the uprising in 1994.

Interesting to me, not just because of the scale and longetivity and relative success, but also because it is fundamentally an indigenous uprising.

If we can speak of common and immutable anarchist principles being those that include direct action, mutual aid, and voluntary cooperation, in spirit as well as in deed, is it possible that in this country indigenous communities could be self-determined in 21st century organisation as 'anarchic' in praxis?

Especially in negotiation with the State?

Personally, I'd like to explore that space in the future. Maybe sooner rather than later.

I thought we already were AndyM. Might as well piss the time away surfing.

"I’m interested in any real world propositions as to which form it’d take . There seems to be a legitimate cadre of those who promote anarchism and I’d like to hear how they’d deploy the ideology in the real world.

Give an example. Take a state of Australia- if you would even recognise states or territories ?- and explain which parts of government would be eradicated and how they’d be replaced.

Would private property exist ? Survival of the fittest ? Who runs the collective ?"

I told you. We're an anarcho-syndicalist commune. We take it in turns to act as a sort of executive officer for the week. But all the decisions of that officer have to be ratified at a special biweekly meeting. By a simple majority in the case of purely internal affairs, but by a two-thirds majority in the case of more....

BE QUIET!

Facto in Catalonia the anarchists were cobbled together with strange bedfellows; the socialists, the republicans - sort of united against the Church, fascists, Franco's military etc. Some of the things the socialists wanted, the anarchists couldn't agree on, so there were times when they didn't come out to fight. From memory they were more up in the mountains, wanted to be left alone in their ethnic group?

Anarchist regions centred around individual ethnic groups in set areas might have a chance at working.

Still no explanation of how it would play out for an Australian state though . I’m interested in specifically what it is that you’d want changed for Australia if your wish was granted and anarchism was introduced.

The indigenous thing might interest you as a peripheral concept , though it seems awfully divisive to myself and I’d rather just get a few straight answers on what it is that you want for Australian society as a whole.

Solid examples- which levels of government would be dispensed with if any ? Who is in charge - there’s ALWAYS someone in charge ? What of private property ?

Anarchists have been pushing this barrow for years . I was hoping that one of their number could describe in plain English specifically what it is that they’d have our society become.

Yeah, I know quite a bit about the Spanish civil war, VJ. I don't know if you could really describe the multitudinous socialist and republican groups, even the communists, all with a similar trajectory, as particularly 'strange bedfellows'. A popular left front to counter the same on the right immediately prior to 1936? Yes. One in which the anarchist groups didn't join, but didn't outright decry either.

Anyway, the events of 1936 post uprising and the early successes by the anarchists were at least 70 years in the making.

The role of Stalin subsequently, let alone the usual suspects like Mussolini, Hitler, and Henry Ford, well, that's another sad and sorry Spanish tale.

Check the third history vid above for some more in-depth history.

And maybe, if you're genuinely interested, get a slight handle on what anarchism actually is, some tenets, influences, differences, how it has manifested itself, SOME history at least, otherwise it's a waste of time I haven't got.

Anarchism urges people to think, to investigate. It's a given!

Yeah, I know, homework...but there it is. Call it 'resurch', however minor, rather than straight out ultracrepidarianism.

Beer o'clock.

Here ya go, groovers, Info Dreemin' approved!

anarchists are not interested in running the State...that's the whole point.

Went through 3rd vid, pretty good. I was left wondering what their goals were, beyond armed revolution. But as they took villages, it became apparent. Collectivism, abolition of property divisions, abolition of money, abolition of class boundaries and probably roles. Spain back then was a lot more rigid socially than Australia traditionally has been.

Edit: within the cities, all bureaucracy was eliminated (surely a tiny bit was created) and all non productive jobs abolished. Worker management of businesses and public services.

Chook, that dichotomy has always troubled me personally. Contra vs counter cultural response. Hard to resolve. Navigate a path.

And class based/biased?

And as a basic definition, one of the professors said anarchism is dedicated to the abolition of power (any, I guess)

The strange bedfellows bit is evident in what happened to the anarchists once they came into disagreement with the communists.

I know people who grew up as children in 1960s Spain, and the old hatreds are still felt. The whole civil war was a disaster for everyone there; better to be able to talk and find compromise.

Yes Facto, genuinely interested. Best to gather many views.

& this series has always been very well done

closer to impartial as it is older perhaps

Watched "Last Breath" on Netflix last night... wow. Highly recommended.

It's a docco about saturation divers at the bottom of the North Sea in 2012, when the support vessel (which they're tethered to) loses its computer-controlled positioning system in 20ft seas and 35kt winds. As the boat drifts, one of the divers' umbilical cords gets trapped around the sea floor infrastructure they're working on, and it snaps - leaving him with five minutes of emergency oxygen, and no way to escape.

Fascinating profiles on the saturation divers too. Those blokes are nuts.

I suppose everyone is already into Queen’s gambit ?

It’s worthy.

Yep! I have already ordered a chess set. Never played a single game in my life either.

Don't forget the green pills

I thought the Lego would appeal, Info. Did you watch the three other pre-hippy historical vids?

As a Scomo/Trump man, and especially after a few bongs, you'll love 'em!

I just watched the final season of The Deuce. Man, pretty good AND very depressing. No winners whatsoever in any way, shape or form. Well, Candy and artistic expression in retrospect.

Cool soundtrack too. As always.

oh yes...the final episode of the deuce is shattering. i can't stop thinking about it. what a show.

i was always surprised by the lack of books and films about times square. there was taxi driver and that ambulance movie with nicolas cage, both good movies, but none had made times square the central character. there was nothing to match the myth and despair of the place. the deuce really came through.

the hi-hat bar is based on the tin pan alley. nan goulding worked there

Nan Goldin! No way. Always remember this self portrait.

How do you know about these people Facto? I really must live in a bubble even though I kinda thought of myself as reasonably well read.

Just spent an hour reading about Nancy Goldin. Fascinating in terms of her evolution, honesty and activism. The selfie above titled " a month after being battered" or something like that?

Cant say I’d ever consider someone who’d relocated to an entirely different country and who now lived surrounded by a foreign and exotic culture as living in a bubble.

All relative I guess.

I guess I jumped from one bubble into another.

zen....everything comes back to the filmmaker john waters -- cookie meuller is in numerous john waters films. cookie was nan goldin's best friend.

Well there you go Chook- thankyou. I just spent my lunchbreak reading about John Waters and Cookie Meuller. I like Cookie's last quote-

"Fortunately I am not the first person to tell you that you will never die. You simply lose your body. You will be the same except you won't have to worry about rent or mortgages or fashionable clothes. You will be released from sexual obsessions. You will not have drug addictions. You will not need alcohol. You will not have to worry about cellulite or cigarettes or cancer or AIDS or venereal disease. You will be free."

i was just reading that quote...

and i was trying to translate using google translate of a quote in japanese on some pickles we bought at daisen-in temple in kyoto...
"may the road be long, your heart full, some thing about not being angry and let the other be the bigger man, you be the smaller."

'How do you know about these people Facto? I really must live in a bubble even though I kinda thought of myself as reasonably well read.

Just spent an hour reading about Nancy Goldin. Fascinating in terms of her evolution, honesty and activism. '

Maybe because as others have pointed out, he's actually a really interesting person.

'Cant say I’d ever consider someone who’d relocated to an entirely different country and who now lived surrounded by a foreign and exotic culture as living in a bubble.

All relative I guess.'

Immigrant, is the common term. Amasing that a tiny place like heavily populated Japan, welcomes zenny with open arms, even though, in the words of some, 'he is stealing their jobs, and taking roofs from over their heads, whilst forcing up property prices and ruining the nation'.

'I guess I jumped from one bubble into another.'

Aaah yes, the sweet science of real esatate bubble(s). Gotta love property development, sub divisions and...

Unless you meant 'ship jumping', zenny?

Nah, not really Uppity- I only planned to do a year, found someone I really loved and couldn't leave her. Classic interacial boy meets girl story. We're very happy in our little bubble but it would be nice to get back to what I will always refer to as home. And as you know, self employed and our house had been empty for three years before we bought it so that kinda negates your point wouldn't you agree?

Whew! Thank God... again! Lucky! That was close... but...

No... well yes... well no... for some, it depends on what 'can only be assumed'? Also, for some it depends on whether or not you are Chinese?

And the population numbers?

No, I'm not Chinese, At least I don't think I am.

And population numbers?

Decreasing, so I'm doing my bit.

Lucky? Most definitely, or more precisely- fortunate.

zen...is that you in the youtube vids of a couple restoring abandoned houses in japan?

No mate but I've watched that guy. He's actually only about an hour or so south of me. I like that he's chosen to preserve a beautiful old Japanese house. They're called 'Minka'.

Understandably, you are in a bit of a connundrum there zenny. According to some, if you stay, as an immigrant in Japan, you are adding to a tiny country's famous population problems, yet, if you come back here, you are adding to the destruction of the nation?

Ok then, at least you claim that you aren't Chinese, and thankfully there are, in a nutshell, swillnutty methods to ascertain that for certain. And, matt finish knights in white armour are involved in your judgement! Unfortunately, for you but... so are some leading swillnuts... the once famous three, and now up to famous five... give or take a few... again...

Good luck... again...

What can I say? I'm torn.

But thankyou, again.

Better get back to it, justifying my existence that is.

Yes its been a long day, longer for some but... which thread next?

MB seems to have received one too many concussions - wtf is he on about? Suggest he sticks to his day job for everyone's sake.