Praise The Lord?
Is this it ?
https://www.smh.com.au/national/victoria/the-case-for-and-against-what-t...
Nothing more than a single accusation by one person with no corroborating evidence ? The second alleged victim even denied it happened. I understand that in cases like this there is often no evidence, but surely they’ve got something else on Pell ?
https://www.smh.com.au/national/victoria/inside-george-pell-s-trial-the-...
Im not versed in legal matters , but I’m very surprised that a conviction was possible.
Blowin juries have to judge the credibility of witnesses and in this case they found the complainant to be believable and Pell not to be. It would seem that a majority of the jury in the previous trial also felt that way though they could not reach that verdict.
The bloke that dies would of probably had to submit some sort of written testiomony to before he passed on
I'm not sure about that tux as he hadn't even told his parents. There was certainly plenty of evidence from the other members of the choir though none witnessed the assault.
"No one can stomach a paedophile or their enablers or excusers."
Pell is guilty of being all three as it stands?
And Bolt et al guilty of being in the last cohort, maybe even the second if Pell's conviction stands?
Woooooo! Controversial!
Rupert would approve.
Interesting to see which way these media proponents are gonna jump now.
And Abbott.
Well if the Victorian DPP is to believed quite a few might be joining old Georgie in a prison cell for breaching the suppression orders. Things have a way to run yet and there is no doubt that there is pressure being exerted behind the scenes to keep Pell out of jail and to make sure the appeal goes his way. Until then watch which way people jump on the issue; apologists to the right, fence sitters in the middle and those prepared to accept the justice of the verdict to the left!
Bloody hell TBB, that's appalling.
There's no shame in reporting that evil; in my books you'd be a hero for speaking out.
And there's no shame in seeking professional help if the scars still hurt.
First jury couldn't reach unanimous decision. Evidence sounds a bit dodgy. Australians love to cut down tall poppies. I reckon he might be scapegoat. But who really knows? I don't have 100% confidence in the justice system. And this was Victoria right. Justice system in Victoria is not exactly squeaky clean.
I agree.
Without being present at the trial it’s hard to accept someone going to gaol on the word of a single unprovable accusation . Particularly when the only other person involved denied anything ever happened.
A drug overdose is not evidence of previous sexual molestation.
Even if you were present at trial it’d come down to who presented their story best . Hardly workable towards a conviction I’d have thought.
Maybe further convictions will corroborate the prosecution over time ? Maybe not.
Some people are saying the verdict is questionable, and that may be so, I can't say, but people like Bolt, Chris Kenny, and Greg Sheridan would do very well to shut the fuck up right about now. For one, they're conservatives, so the law is a bulwark to their belief system, and two, there is every chance more people could come forward with more damning evidence.
This is what happens in paedo cases when victims, hitherto shamed by the experience, are emboldened by other people speaking up.
If that happens then the RWNJs are just digging a deeper hole for themselves.
As I’m getting older I’m hearing more and more stories of things that went down when I was younger and was unaware of at the time. Some bad things happened.
Also alarming how accepting and naive people were in those days.
I had a couple of people in trusted positions put the groom on me. Seemed obvious and creepy to me. Both of those guys wound up in prison.
The general assumption on the first trial is that it was 10-2 in favour of conviction since many of the jury were visibly upset at their inability to reach a verdict. 11-1 is a majority verdict and it would have been enough. Second guessing a jury decision when the evidence is not publicly available is pretty pointless. 12 people listened to all the evidence, spent a considerable amount of time considering it and came to a unanimous decision. There is no reason to think that the evidence was contaminated by police malfeasance nor is there any suggestion that the jury selection was anything but fair and open. In the circumstances I would extend Stu's suggestion about the RWNJs more widely. I mean do you really want to cast doubt on the conviction of a paedophile on nothing more than the limited reading of a couple of newspaper reports? If you do maybe you should consider that many of the journalists writing them have a long record of established personal support for Pell and so are just protecting their previous appalling character judgement.
I just read the SMH this morning and post what I found more due to surprise at the workings of the legal system as opposed to any commentary on the particular case of George Pell. I read a Murdoch paper maybe once or twice a year and don’t watch Fox , Bolt , Sky or any other right slanting media. So I’m not supporting anyone’s bias.
>>>Second guessing a jury decision when the evidence is not publicly available is pretty pointless. 12 people listened to all the evidence, spent a considerable amount of time considering it and came to a unanimous decision.
This - exactly. He wanted his day in court (his words). He got it. And if he gets freed on appeal, then we'll all have to suck that up too.
From https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-02-26/george-pell-guilty-child-sexual-a...
would an archbishop who had established a scheme to compensate victims then sexually abuse two children in his cathedral just months later?
As the video recording of Pell’s police interview was played to the jury, long-time advocate Chrissie Foster watched on from the public gallery.
Two of her daughters were raped by paedophile priest Kevin O’Donnell at a parish in suburban Melbourne in the 1980s. At the time the Catholic Church was aware O’Donnell was abusing children — and had been since 1958.
She and her late husband Anthony dealt with Pell from 1996 as one of the first families to go through the Melbourne Response.
Ms Foster said she had taken him at face value, as an archbishop of the Catholic Church, but had been blindsided by his combative response.
She said Pell had seemed angrier than they were and challenged them to prove their claims in court.
“Pell told us to take our evidence to court, prove it in court, ‘hope you could substantiate what you’re saying’, because of course, there is no proof. What proof is there? My five-year-old did not take a video camera with her when O’Donnell took her to there, and video it to say, ‘Ah, here’s the proof’.
“So he was using those words, knowing that we could not argue or produce any evidence, nothing. Just one word against the other. So it was extremely upsetting and disappointing. And we got nowhere. ..."
Different crime. Unpunished. The administrators of the pedo ring have got off scott free and they represent the worst if you ask me.
And - he's a convicted pedophile who has been found guilty of raping two children. Found guilty and convicted. And he's been out on bail since mid-Dec for a knee op. That's a pretty long time for a knee op. How many indigenous men found guilty of raping two children do you think they'd give a few months bail and let walk the streets? And what would all the conservative whingers have to say about that?
The rear guard defence action by Pell supporters is telling on the power he held and had over Catholics and institution political conservatives.
Part will be to get him off and also to stop others coming forward but I suspect mostly its about the protection / defence of the Catholic Church as an institution and to hell with the victims.
TBB that's a shocking recount of your child hood experience courageous of you to put it up I hope in doing so more power to you.
Pedo Pell has just withdrawn his 2.30pm Bail application
From the first page of this thread...
https://www.theguardian.com/media/2016/mar/02/andrew-bolt-says-cardinal-...
“Here is the question now for the royal commission into sex abuse of children: is the Vatican’s third-most powerful leader a liar when he says he never knew what Ridsdale, his colleague, was doing in Ballarat?” Bolt wrote.
“Or was he just dangerously indifferent to his responsibilities and to the warning signs that children were being raped?
“But the devastating admission drawn from Pell by Gail Furness SC, counsel assisting the royal commission into institutional responses to child sexual abuse, was that he never bothered to ask.
“Now a royal commission seems poised to consider whether this prince of the Catholic church is a liar.”
"No one can stomach a paedophile or their enablers or excusers."
Pell is guilty of being all three as it stands?
And Bolt et al guilty of being in the last cohort, maybe even the second if Pell's conviction stands?
Woooooo! Controversial!
Rupert would approve.
Interesting to see which way these media proponents are gonna jump now.
And Abbott."
Well, Tones has been there, done that. Nothing to see here.
https://www.smh.com.au/national/abbott-insisted-on-nestor-reference-2013...
"Tony Abbott told the court Father Nestor was "an extremely upright and virtuous man. I guess one of things that I liked very much about John when I first met him, was his maturity, intellectual, social, emotional, he was, to that extent I guess, a beacon of humanity at the Seminary.”
In an interview in March [that] year the victim questioned why Tony Abbott gave evidence:
“the alleged victim, who asked not to be named, said Mr Abbott should not have provided a character reference for Mr Nestor.”
”I was not aware of who Tony Abbott was at the time,” he said.
”While I do not necessarily believe that he has done anything wrong, in hindsight it may have been better if he had not involved himself in the matter.”
It is understood Mr Abbott communicated with Mr Nestor twice after the court cases, but has had no contact with him for almost 15 years.
”In 1997, Mr Abbott provided a reference for Mr Nestor in an open court. He was subsequently acquitted by a District Court judge,” a spokesman for Mr Abbott said.
The alleged victim queried why Mr Abbott hadn’t stayed in contact with Mr Nestor.
”If someone was of such good character, why has contact not been kept?” he asked.
He said Mr Abbott’s reference may have been a factor in Mr Nestor’s successful appeal.
”Certainly a character reference from a member of parliament would hold some sway, no doubt about it,” he said.
“It probably did play a big part, but there were other things that played a bigger part. For example, John Nestor never gave evidence at the trial. He was never cross-examined.”
https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/abbott-criticised-for-supporting...
Newspaper recalls other Pell allegations...(re: Common thread exposed)
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2016/jul/28/george-pell-expos...
re:1978' Groping of 'two' St Alipus students in the Eureka Pool
re:1986' Exposing himself to 'two' 8-10 y/olds in the beach toilets at Torquay SLSC.
> :1996' Sexual abuse of 'two' altar boys at St Patrick's Cathedral.
Pell's pedo threesome fantasy torments boys over decades.
Said 3 cases we see Pell sexually intimidate 2 boys in confined spaces. No escape!
Hard to believe that these are his only perverted threesomes...All pray please be so!
If Pell curtailed his divine intervention to 1 or 1,000 he'd be upfront in Pope Mobile.
Footnote re: tbb outlandish allegations of "The 1,000." ...thanx for support crew!
{tbb is proud to convey that real life monster tale is assuredly uncensored version.}
Crew & myself salute our brave Swellnet for keeping it real.(A rare invaluable breed)
Fun at first but you grow tired of being sucked in chewed up spat out by Tabloids.
Thanks for that link to other Pell allegations TBB - been looking for this. And more power to you for sharing your experience and for coming through it. I hope your school mates at the time - all those other kids - are doing as well
"George Pell's defence lawyer, Robert Richter QC says that - although the cardinal maintains he is innocent - the crimes he has been found guilty of were short, not pre-meditated and no more than any other "plain vanilla case" of sexual penetration against a child."
I guess when you defend criminals like him over and over the whole exercise does become a bit too vanilla. Creepy.
When you hear lawyers speak like that, I always wonder if it were their kids (in this instance) having been raped, would they feel and speak the same way?
That needs to be read in context. He's trying to get the most favourable sentencing outcome for his client on the basis that he has been convicted.
Yep it pretty clear what his trying to do. Hence the language used. Context? Just another run of the mill sexual penetration of a child as apposed to a really nasty one.
And he was a character reference for Pell at the trial.
https://www.businessinsider.com.au/john-howard-character-reference-georg...
Howard is an even bigger criminal than Pell. He was responsible for literally millions of children dying through providing Australian support for the illegal and reckless invasion of Iraq.
That’s so good , Guy.
Fucking criminals.
Thanks for digging out that 'frightful' comment Stu.
Can't help wondering if that is common news.
(I must agree it sounds disturbing!) Better off in jail just to avoid C.R.E.E.P QC.
Quality resolute swellnet comments emphatically tackle ghastly news head on.
Crew have stepped to deliver what needs to be said as difficult as that is. Legends!
This is fucken funny :)
"velocityjohnno does Dr No serpentine lair have fliptop stairs for pet Moha Moha!"
Not sure and no desire to find out. It appears the sorting hat put the lot of them into Slytherin.
"Just where do you dig up these freaky fables...they forever blow my mind! (So Cool!)"
No need for fiction with the story of humanity out there. It gets weirder.
tbb you are a scholar and a gentleman and your own research skills are pretty impressive. Enjoy your posts, keep them cryptic :)
Pedophilia was the grossest form of brutality inflicted on innocent young catholic children.
My brother and I went to catholic primary and secondary schools so I can attest to how catholic nuns and brothers were fucking sadists when it came to use of corporal punishment (leather strap).
I was first given the strap in grade 2 (8 years old) and by the time I left in grade 6 my hands were hardened to regular thrashings. Secondary school was far worse, it was all out war between the christian brothers and students and the christian brothers only stopped the daily insurrection with use of the strap. The hatred was palatable.
It all came to a head when my older brother two years ahead of me was actually punched in the face by a christian brother. My brother was flung backwards by the force and almost over the balcony and down two floors. That was my brother's last day of school and after my dad fronted up at the school seeking retribution with the police called by the school I also left and ended up at the local high school.
The only time I go near a church these days is for the funerals of relatives. I sit there in the back just thinking you fucking fucking hypocrites.
I was in Rome 2 years ago and against my better judgement I did a tour of the Vatican. The wealth on display there is beyond human comprehension, it is truly sickening, fucking hypocrites.
gotta ask yourself what percentage of priests are peds ? Hypocrites alright,shame howards not in there with him cause they could play hide the sausage together.
The Sunday service in Adelaide this weekend.
Please dont see this as any sort of support of the grub and what he stands for.. but...
RE the " "plain vanilla case" of sexual penetration against a child" comment.
Its not an admission of any kind that this has happened. Its that as he has been found guilty the lawyer cant use his "innocence" as a defence in sentencing. The lawyer has to argue in a way that implies it did happen even when they still argue that it doesnt....
RE the "plain vanilla case" of sexual penetration against a child" comment.
The comment takes on more sickly flavour when sex with a child is being judged.
"Vanilla Sex": Relationships where only one partner enjoys less conventional sex.
"Vanilla Partner": The person who does not enjoy such sexual activity.
Case:'Sexual exploration of Vanillas in kind rewarded QC's client some satisfaction.'
'Terrible choice of phrase': Robert Richter apologises for 'plain vanilla' comment.
https://www.smh.com.au/national/terrible-choice-of-phrase-robert-richter...
Note: This & all cases involve Pell trapping same sex underage 'vanillas'.
Now that your QC has just placed his client's head on the chopping block.
Pell is left wondering...
1) Who is this Guy & Who's side is on?
2) Plead for a retrial as my QC is an ice addict?
3) How much money can the Catholic Church extract from a libellous QC.
3) Would Pell's libellous ice addict QC ever land another case in Australia?
Another Legal Aid Gig gets thrown outta court so the Pedo walks. That's New!
C'mon! Don't tell me the dumbass QC still wants payment after that headline.
The Torquay SLSC story is reasonably common knowledge around here and the bloke who reported it is a solid local citizen. Wonder how many other similar incidents the filthy cunt was involved in over the years.
(tbb apology)
I'm not making light of allegations but Pell's cop shop gig sounds too familiar.
Pell's uncanny IT Crowd (Tribute to Roy) As bizarre as it seems folks!
episode "Deranged Falsehood" Cardinal Pell plays "Roy" From the IT Crowd.
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/video/2019/mar/01/a-deranged-...
[Cue Audience xxx Laughter]
00:50 (Allegation Scene 1)
[Pell sits with Arms Folded in best Roy pose.]
(Pell as Roy) : "WHAT a load of AB-Solutely DIS-Graceful Rubbish!"
(Pell briefly collects his thoughts & prepares a catchy Roy hookline!)
"COM-Pletely False! MAAAD-ness!"
1:30 Allegation Scene 2
Pell as Roy : (Completely false!)
"WHAT a LOAD of GAR-Bage AND FALSE-Hood
AND DEE-Ranged falsehood!
(end credits)
Leaving Neverland released ghosts from the past...Scary!
The Moistboyz have a song about a peado cop called Roy.
Anyone see 4 Corners I missed it?
yeah I did, just sad reconfirmation of everything we now know and how the church tried to cover it all up.
Of better viewing was QandA last night, well worth a look on ABC iveiw dealt with the topic in great detail and the panel was worth listening to.
Cheers GS
Milligan's 4 corners Episode Originally aired (7:30 Report)27/July/2016
http://www.bishop-accountability.org/Australia/Pell/Investigation_Timeli...
Pell's team removed & reviewed episode as far as I know. (Script is online!)
https://www.smh.com.au/national/pell-s-lawyer-accuses-journalist-of-pois...
4corners version is much the same it just adds intro + Police Interview.
https://iview.abc.net.au/show/four-corners/series/2019/video/NC1903H005S00
GuySmiley Q&A review sounds spot on.
https://iview.abc.net.au/show/qanda/series/0/video/NC1904H005S00
"Our criminal system is built on a simple but powerful premise: every man and woman accused of a crime is assumed innocent until found guilty by columnist Andrew Bolt. Derived from the Latin maxim ‘ei incumbit probatio qui dicit, non qui negat Andrew Bolt’, it is a fundamental pillar of our democracy, and has been for centuries."
http://www.theshovel.com.au/2019/03/05/george-pell-the-assumption-of-inn...
Sooner or later you’ve got to ask yourself - Is the entire Church thing purely a front for a paedophile ring of immense proportions ?
What’s the vow of celibacy all about ? Very convenient way to mask a lack of sexual desire towards other socially acceptable partners. Sure , not everyone in the church is a paedo , but maybe they’ve just fallen for the cover story and inadvertently provided cover for all the nonces.
if you have some time watch this weeks QandA on iview, your questions and more will be answered, recommended.
This is flying off the shelves
Now I'm confused- one guy thanks Jesus because his career is over and another thanks God for allowing him to win his heat!
Those fellas above work in mysterious ways-
Hobgood, a fixture on the elite ASP Dream Tour for more than a decade, needed to defeat Wright in their Round 3 bout to remain on the ASP World Title Series for 2011, but was gracious in defeat regarding the tough loss.
"At the end of it, I don't want to be known as the 2001 World Champion," Hobgood said. "I want to be known as a guy that loved Jesus and loved everyone and had fun and that's it. It's not a sad day for me.
"I can't believe it," Alves said. "I'm so tired right now after surfing three heats and happy too. I beat Joel Parkinson and Mick Fanning. Thanks to God for everything he has given me. I'm looking for my best result, maybe I'll find it here."