Morn Pen surf report

All good ben. As I said the comment about the crowd was a dig. Nothing more nothing less.
Even though it wasn't busy it can be a circus at times on the peninsula and Id rather avoid the masses if possible.
Maybe the summer crowd has got to me.
Be interested to know how many crew actually click on the report or this thread. Even though I know that ain't gonna happen.

I still don’t get it though. It’s legit common knowledge that when it’s too big for the beaches where too go for a wave. Same goes for optimal tide, I could think of maybe one reef in the whole peninsula that works on the low.

By mentioning Flinders way, the only people that wouldn’t be aware would have too be either people who just happened to begin their surfing career or people passing through that day (who have probably already done their research or have their copy of “The Surfer's Travel Guide: Australia.” in their glove box.)

Then with that potential amount of people who you could count on one hand disperse over a few breaks, or at worst congregate at one, would be as noticeable as the inch high forerunners of new swell.

But atleast today we can rejoice as it seems there will be no heads in the water today!

I don’t understand either question

Not having a go either mate, just don’t understand.

I reckon you guys totally overestimate your average below average surfer.

I know heaps of guys that pretty much only surf when someone else does, they basically follow their mates around like a little lost puppy. They have no idea of the best winds or tides, dont even seem interested, they travel with no plan or research, they basically jag it everytime they surf. Good on em, the universe is often kind to such gowiththeflowfulness.

Then there's a heap of guys that organise their surfs days, even weeks in advance, picking the wind, predicting the swell, assessung posibilities of subtle tide changes etc. looking for that little window, where it all comes together, without a legion of heroes and halfwits.

Unfortunately the latter surfer now also has to factor in where the surf report and forcast is going to send the hordes. Quite often sacrificing the optimum conditions of the day to find some sanity on the edges of mayhem.

Surf reports spelling out every last detail are just making this harder and harder. No need to spoon feed the halfwits, report the swell, wind and tide sure, but no need to put it all together naming places, it's just bad form. Bad form that goes against decades of culture that has served surfing well.

My thoughts exactly sypkan. I'm a regular out there and absolutely notice the crowd when Flinders is mentioned in the report, I reckon it doubles. Even best case scenario, if it results in 1 more beginner out there getting in your way when you are half way through a turn or bailing their board in front of you it's too many. I don't know why the reporter just can't say 'beachies to big, head to protected spots'?

It has to be a fact that surf reports and cams do increase crowds. The best surf I've had at a certain reef in this area in years was the day the cam was out. Instead on the usual 30 plus out there were 5 of out and the surf conditions were as close as they get to perfect.

I've lost count of the number of blow ins from Melbourne have tried to get me in a conversation about which ones this {named} break and what tide does it best work on, where do you paddle out etc .... mate I can't help you I don't surf.

Naming in break is just not helpful even if there is thousands of google hits.

Hey, does Dan still do the MP reports? On holidays perhaps?

*burp*

Who's doing the mornington reports these days?

Leon Is it still that Dan fella?

Dan hasn't done the MP surf reports for a few years now.

GuySmiley - I don't wanna get picky, but there's a bunch of flaws in your argument.

One of which is the notion that you're annoyed that Melbourne surfers (not sure how you geo-located their home address?) were asking for tips about certain breaks. Have you never asked another surfer a question before? Or did it all magically come to you in a beam of information from the heavens?

I've been on surf trips with some very good, high profile surfers, and they ask a lot of questions too. If TC asked you where the keyhole was, what would you say?

BTW, where is the regional border between 'locals' and 'blow-ins from Melbourne'?

And, if mentioning surf breaks in surf reports (of which Flinders is a region, and not a break, but I digress), and live surfcams are the main cause of lineup crowding, then what's the cause of 50-80 blokes out at Quarrantine every time it's on?

Im curious as too what cam? One of the many minute by minute trigger cams?

That camera is admirable though, with the power of increasing a crowd by 600% an all..

Flinders is a small town with 3 waves and over an area not much larger than the top of bells to the bottom of winki.

Regarding quarras, there is a west coast based shaper on insta with over 3k followers that will name drop it with even the slightest chance it will be on. F'in kook

@Goofy. Wait, what?

Wannasurf to the rescue again, re: Quarra:

June, 2004: "dont even bother with this joint 30 boats out the last time it broke good someone will get hurt soon."

May, 2008: "we went on a couple trips over there during summer. .. counted over 32 boats those days. thats about 90 people in the line up."

Seeing Instagram didn't start until 2010 (and most surfers/shapers really only got on board in the last 3-4 years), what was causing the crowding back then? 

Oh, and a Google search for Quarrantine+surf+victoria returns 706,000 website results. 

https://www.google.com.au/search?q=Quarantine+surf+victoria

Hey Ben,

I'm not rude, if a stranger engages me in a conversation along the way I'll ask them where have they driven from. If I ignore surf camps where guides are employed to advise guests I can't remember if I've ever ask about a surf break, I doubt it, if I did it would have been a mate with whom I was about to go surfing with. Afraid my knowledge of the local breaks predates the internet.

Your point about pros is interesting, I don't worship them like some, they get paid to travel the world surfing the best breaks in likely excellent conditions unlike the punter surfing his local with or without the internet crowd factor.

re: regional border, most long-term surfers I know are very frustrated by the crowds on the MP. The construction of the two freeways, making access so much quicker from all eastern suburbs of Melbourne, combined with long range forecasting, reports, cams (yes to both points Nick) and flexible working hour have made a massive difference to numbers in the surf. To argue otherwise would be nonsensical.

I know people who used to surf further SE of Melbourne who now surf the MP because it's easier/quicker. Conversely, people who used to surf the MP are now driving off it to surf less crowded breaks.

Your last question is a little puzzling because professionally you would know when its on because of the winds it needs it would be one of the very few places in Victoria working. It is also close to surfers on both coasts many of whom have access to boats.

I'm not anti cams and reports, I use them like the next guy, I'm a paid subscriber to your service, I just reckon what is said needs to be carefully written.

Edit: So Ben is that an unreasonable request?

Knowledge of when conditions are ideal for Quarra is no different from knowledge of when conditions are ideal for the various breaks at Flinders. If local (or Melbourne) surfers know when Quarra is on, then why would they be oblivious to Flinders?

You can't attribute a cause-and-effect at one location, when it can't be attributed elsewhere. That's cherry picking the data to suit your agenda.

I can also cherry pick the data to counter the argument (and have dates and photos too).

Last March, I was visiting Torquay, the Tuesday before Easter (28th). I always travel with boards, but also expect healthy crowds around that time of the year, and sometimes choose not to surf. As it is I'm normally pretty busy with meetings etc.

So, imagine my surprise - in the two hour window I had off around lunchtime - when I rocked up to (arguably) the most easily accessibly stretch of reefs for any Victorian surfer, and found clean 3-4ft surf, light offshore winds and just three surfers out. Couldn't believe my luck. Had an unreal surf.

The surf was bang on forecast (the day before was bigger around 5-6ft but with a little wind on it, though even less numbers in the water), and you could argue that this size range is more user-friendly than bigger swells - hence the reason I had been expecting plenty of surfers in the water.

Also, being two days before the Rip Curl Pro kicked off, the WSL circus was in town - adding a couple of hundred (very good) surfers to the town.

Later that afternoon, after my diary was free again, I headed back to the same spot. And, here's what I saw.

I've been told that's "as good as it gets". Aside from the superb wave quality, there were only nine blokes on the inside, four on the middle section and no-one out the back. EXIF data says the photo was taken around 5pm.

I ended up surfing a nearby reef (that required a little more walking) to myself (!!) for an hour until the light got a little low, with two blokes joining me right at the end.

Where was everyone? I assume most of the Pros were surfing B+W to refamiliarise themselves with the contest breaks, but the bulk of the WSL entourage usually surf elsewhere - though within walking distance from their accom.

Thing is, this wasn't a one-off. It happens all the time (I travel a lot for work, but keep my sessions to myself). And, I wasn't sitting around picking the eyes out of the tide and the crowd on this day - I literally dashed to the closest spot at the only available opportunity, at times I'd ordinarily considered to be busy (1pm, 5pm).

Seeing this location is one of the most easily accessible spots in the state, has a daily surf report and a couple of nearby surfcams, and is the assumed focal point of most Victorian forecasts, a few days before Easter with the WSL in town, and was pumping off its dial, what was the reason there was hardly anyone in the water?

Oh I too remember the days of driving back and forth, up and over and back around again, from one end to the other, looking..... hoping....praying....sweating in the heat, only to end up at first carpark surfing a rip bank hours later. Horribly frustrating times and the main reason that I moved on to what I consider greener pastures. I do however, miss the stroll through the Moonah and tea tree, beautiful part of the world. MP really does have it's moments but on a whole far too much effort for the reward me thinks.

BTW, I'm not attacking here, I enjoy the opportunity to discuss this topic in a transparent manner.

I just think there's a lot of myths about surfing / crowds / internet / surf brands / WSL / legrope drag / cost of wetsuits / everything (as there are about almost everything in life), so I like to put some context and data into the picture.

You pulling my leg here? Sorra cam is down a fair bit and when it aint, its highly susceptible too the salt which fogs the screen.

30 people out at out back? Ya kiddin me. Never ever seen that in my life, literally grew up there and to this day one of the handful of people that surf the joint still. Maybe, maybe, maybe on sunday when the nippers paddle out when its 1ft.

Did i just get trolled?

Ben, I don't have the energy for an elongated discussion here, I'm actually mostly bed bound with a nasty bug. Not sure how talking about Quarra came into this discussion but as you would know without access to a boat its a monumental mission to surf it, not as if you drive to a carpark and your out there, Parks ensure it's a very very long walk before you face a long paddle in ripy conditions. So it isn't generally accessible to the punter so perhaps an extreme example, some might even dare to say cherry picking. And yes sometimes the eye of the storm is the best strategy to get that rare uncrowded surf that once was common place.

But to my fundamental point, Swellnet is part of the industry that puts numbers in the surf, I'm a subscriber so I'm not denying its purpose, but you could answer this question: where do you draw the line between the need to get cash paying punters through the door and the position I'm coming from of naming places? Surely the MP report ought to comment just on the beaches as I think GF said above.

Are you saying that we get more 'cash paying punters' by including Flinders and Western Port in a sentence in the surf report?

I'm afraid it's not the case. It's also a completely seperate discussion about the justification of subs (which I'm happy to have, though preferably in another thread).

There are an ever-increasing range of channels to report surf conditions these days. And over the years we've seen a large number of websites, radio stations, TV news reports, phone services, Apps, newspapers etc deliver information of varying degrees. 

Have a think about this: if we look at one coast (for example, the open beaches of the MP), the surf could be reported in any one of the following ways, in what I'd describe as a sliding scale of granularity (BTW, just so no-one panics, this is made up!).

1. We've got a decent 3-4ft SW swell that's eased a little since yesterday, and the breeze is light out of the E/NE, tending more E/SE across the southern end of the Peninsula. There's an excellent bank at first carpark Gunna, it's been terrible on the big morning high tide, but low tide's around 1pm and there'll be good drainers on the left for the three hours before and after. Hasn't been many crew on it either, so you'll get plenty of little bowly sections. The right's a little short and fat, but there's also three more good banks from St Andrews through Blairgowrie, and Portsea has finally started to show signs of improvement in the last few days, with a decent right just to the north and another left to the south, though you've gotta walk a couple of hundred metres. Doesn't seem to be much elsewhere though. Just make sure you surf early as we're expecting the current offshore wind to swing W'ly at 2pm, it'll be workable for a few hours but by 4pm wind strengths will probably be a little too much, and you'll have to wait for the end of the day for a few inside reforms at best.

2. Surf size is around 3-4ft and conditions are clean with offshore winds. All of the open beaches have really nice banks today, especially the Gunna stretch, they'll be best on the low tide around 1pm. It's the best surf we've seen in a while for sure. Surf early before the wind change kicks in through early/mid afternoon. 

3. The surf is 3-4ft, winds are offshore and there's plenty of options for keen surfers with fun beachies on offer. High tide 7am (1.9m), Low tide 1pm (0.45m), high tide 6:30pm (1.7m). 

4. Swell: Southwesterly 1.0 to 1.5 metres. Wind: East to north-easterly 10 to 15kts, tending westerly in the afternoon and reaching 15 to 20kts late afternoon. Tide: H 7am, L 1pm.

I could go further in depth, but what I'm trying to illustrate is that by and large, the daily surf reports are pretty tame compared to what could be provided every day.

And by the way, over the last seventeen years I've had plenty of complaints that we DON'T provide the level of detail in our reports as per the first example. There is a significant perentage of surfers who specifically want that kind of information. And I presume (now that the advertising model is dead, and subscriptions are the new norm), would be happy to pay for it. But I've continually made the decision not to go down that path.

By the way, you should search out the local WhatsApp surf report group in your area. I know of plenty of these around the country, in all kinds of areas you'd least expect. Tracks Mag did a story on this last year. How much of an effect on crowds do you think this is having?

https://www.tracksmag.com.au/news/the-whatsapp-surf-team-512906

No I'm not.
I've asked you two reasonable questions today and as far as I can see you haven't answered either. Perhaps if you can't do that for commercial reasons I understand but otherwise, what about an answer to that question where is the line drawn, you must have a corporate policy on this, or is that an assumption I shouldn't make.

Not sure what your first question was, but (I assume this was the second question): "where do you draw the line between the need to get cash paying punters through the door and the position I'm coming from of naming places?"

As I said, this isn't the case. We don't generate more money (i.e. get more subs, or attract more advertising dollars) because of what is or isn't written in the text of a daily surf report. There is zero cause and effect.

Re: corporate policy - not sure how big you think Swellnet is, but with 3.5 full time staff, we haven't yet had a need to employ an HR department to implement corporate policies that don't technically exist.

The thing with Vic is relatively uncrowded sessions are more common than you may think. In fact some of the best beachie sessions I had last year there were less than a handful out.
Anyway I'm aware that contradicts complaining about reports (which to be honest I hadn't given much thought to until this thread) but I guess I'd like to see it stay that way.
I do have one query though. You say there are crew who want more info on reports so wouldn't giving more, rather than less info, then have some bearing on numbers at the beach/spots mentioned? Seems more than likely.

So, on that line of thinking, I'm denying the business from a vital revenue stream by not asking surf reporters to provide beach-by-beach information. 

Unfortunately, there's no way to quantify it accurately - partly because no-one tells you specifically why they do (or don't) subscribe. But also because daily surf reports are one of several features available for subscribers.

If it's unquantifiable, and people are telling you here, why not just tell the reporters not to include it?

Yeah a corporate policy seems a little too flash for the small SN emporium :)) but only if you want to continue the discussion another question: Do you give any guidance to your surf reporters when the first start in the job?

I also take your point Fleazool, if the beaches are on an empty or near empty bank can be found but this is about is referencing reef breaks which if my brain is working properly under the fog of some hideous drugs Ben is assuring me it doesn't happen,

Edit: Thanks for the opportunity to engage in this, unlike other emporiums you give subscribers/non-subscribers that ability.

Here's a snippet from the info provided to surf reporters before they start (obviously, things have evolved over the years, but this version is pretty recent).

"The surf report is a quick job that needs to be done every morning, uploading a couple of sentences and a few pictures of the waves.

Your region is a broad report for the 'XXXX' area, which covers the entire region from XXXX to XXXX. Therefore we need the report to be useful for someone looking for waves across that general region.

It’s important to note that we're not interested in blowing specific locations (details about particular banks etc) - we just need some good, descriptive text about what the swell is doing in the region (relative to the forecast), as well as some eye candy - your images can be from anywhere, but I’d recommend choosing somewhere with a high vantage point if possible. We measure surf height in ‘surfers feet’, that is head high = 3ft, double overhead = 6ft, and so on. 

However, other than XXXX or other very well known locations, please don’t make any references to specific surf breaks."

Also, I've found the email send to our MP reporter, which included this line: 

"It's a broad report which is meant to cover the open beaches (Portsea to Gunna), as well as Flinders and Western Port. Just think about what surfers want to know - is it worth driving to the open beaches, or does it looks like there's enough swell for Western Port?"

I thought the reports were still free and forecast notes were pay walled?
It seems I need to pay more attention.
The reality is if this is the only report some people look to then been vague wont keep them paying. I get that.
Yes Guy I think this all started due to goofys request to ban the "F" word. That seems to be the sticking point.

Cheers for being up for a chat & offering some insight SN

That's very insightful Ben, thanks. Could possibly be wrong here but I'm prepared to say I never read Dan refer to other areas other than the beaches. He might have said something like too big here perhaps look elsewhere but that would be it. So maybe there has been movement, like osmosis, to providing more information, with not apparent conscious intent. If it were intended to include other areas I guess my feedback would be please don't.

You're probably forgetting (or may not have known) that our initial 'Western Port' surf reporter was a local charger living in Flinders. So, that was daily text and photos exclusively from Flinders, 365 days of the year. I just checked the archives, and here's one from 2007 (screen grab below):

"there are small lines starting to appear at Flinders nothing to get overly excited about but keep a sneaky eye on it. Clean but tiny surf at Flinders, so head around to the open beaches this morning for some fun waves. Swell situation for the weekend is looking better, so there may be some waves inside Western Port on Sunday (but winds are looking onshore)."

Ultimately, we reached a point where we assessed traffic to all surf reports, and decided that Western Port and Flinders could be serviced best by the Mornington Peninsula report. And here we are today.

As such, I'd argue that instead of "maybe there has been movement, like osmosis, to providing more information, with not apparent conscious intent"... I reckon there's plenty of evidence that points to the contrary. There's less info about Flinders on Swellnet than there has ever been in the past.

This forum thread notwithstanding, of course.

I'm a bit exhausted after reading all that! Sooo many emotions and fair points from both sides. The only obvious thing I take from the discussion is that we're all very protective of each of our regions, especially us older crew that are from an era where the unwritten (surfers) law is to keep everything on the hush, hush. We had to fit all the pieces of the puzzle together over years of trial and error etc. to finally enjoy those special pumping uncrowded sessions. Unfortunately the modern world has caught up, where to from here? In my opinion, it's not looking too good, the ever expanding population growth means inevitably more surfers in the water, so unless we start building artificial reefs in area's that commonly have straight-handers, it's going to be a problem. Look at the Goldy, total shit fight up there now. I don't even bother chasing swells up there any more, they can have that shit.

Eehhhhmaaagaaaaaawwdddd.

That screenshot. Im such a sucker for nostalgia.

Haha. Just zoomed on the “Breaking News.” O.G Zadnik