Vaccinate or not

That’s the way Vic Local…..double down on your refusal to accept the truth. Hey…..you love your fear. You obviously love it enough to lie to keep the illusion suspended. That’s fine. Just don’t spread your lies and fear to others. You are ruining people’s lives literally and figuratively.

TBB's figures ( especially on those in the UK and Israel ) that those that have been vaccinated that ARE dying , getting sick , being hospitalised at HIGHER rates than unvaccinated , They the figures I am talking about and you know it Mr Deflector .

Common use your maths skills to check HIS figures . As they stand they TOTALLY discredit ALL your views on the benefits of being vaccinated .

I do "Remember what happened the last time you questioned my maths? " You were right ! I want to know if TBB is right and you are WRONG . I will enjoy hearing that you are wrong and your views are shit !!!!!!

Great to hear that your surfing at Winki was not affected by a new walkway . The local walkway builders must have been happy .

Geez Hutchy so you're saying I'm supposed to use Israeli and UK figures when discussing Australian survival rates?
go have a lie down champ.

Hutchy, you do know that the more of the population that gets vaccinated, the more that that portion of the population will end up in hospitals etc.

Ie 90% of pop gets vaccinated, people are still going to get sick and with the majority of them being vacc'd, that's what you'll see in hospital.

Now, if that percentage of vaccinated in hospital is below 90%, that shows the vaccines are making a difference eh. Because it's below the rate of what you'e expect in hospital if it had no effect. I see it's 40% (15% double dosed + 25% single) so there's ya proof that the vaccines work.

I think we all know who the congenital liar is…:)

VicLocal -"Geez Hutchy so you're saying I'm supposed to use Israeli and UK figures when discussing Australian survival rates?"

Of course you should !!!!! How dumb not to . They have the same virus and use the same vaccinations .

They had the virus first and reached your vaccination rates . We should be learning from the whole worlds experience .

You are not dumb enough to think that Australians are a different type of human species are you ?

Craig - TBB figures clearly show that percentage of vaccinated people are dying more than unvaccinated people .

Mind grabbing them for me?

It will be interesting in the next few weeks to see if we get covid increases amongst Vic tradies. I feel really sorry for the Vic medical workers and associated workers who will have to deal with it…and be exposed to it due to selfish assholes.

Craig- they are all over this thread . Look back a few days .

Common VL You are the self confessed maths guru .

"You are not dumb enough to think that Australians are a different type of human species are you ?"
Of course not Hutchy, but you're clearly stupid enough not to realise Israel and the UK started their vaccination program months before us, making comparisons a bit silly.
Israel also has 64.5% of their population fully vaccinated compared to Australia on 38%. But hey let's compare the two and pretend these differences just don't count.
Go lie down Hutchy.

Yep just checked, but again it's to be expected as 90% of the population is vaccinated.

If 90% of the admissions were dying, then the vaccine would be ineffective, but it's down to 65% (single dose), 54% for double.

Again, it seems you can't quite get your head around statistics.

You are right Craig . The number is still much higher than what our media are reporting which is one of the points I am trying to make . Also much higher than the people who got vaxxed would have expected and hoped for .

Well these number of deaths are skewed towards the older population which is what Blowin's been going on about. So it's highly effective for the younger..

Here, read this..

"The risk of dying from covid doubles roughly every seven years older a patient is. The 35-year difference between a 45-year-old and a 80-year-old means the risk of death between the two patients has doubled five times—equivalently it has increased by a factor of 32. An unvaccinated 70-year-old might be 32 times more likely to die of covid than an unvaccinated 35-year-old. This dramatic variation of the risk profile with age means that even excellent vaccines don’t reduce the risk of death for older people to below the risk for some younger demographics.

Data from Public Health England suggest that being double vaccinated reduces the risk of hospital admission with the now-dominant delta variant by around 96%. Even conservatively assuming the vaccines are no more effective at preventing death than hospital admission (actually, they are likely to be more effective at preventing death) this means the risk of death for double vaccinated people has been cut to less than one-twentieth of the value for unvaccinated people with the same underlying risk profile.

However, the 20-fold decrease in risk afforded by the vaccine isn’t enough to offset the 32-fold increase in underlying risk of death of a 80-year-old compared to a 45-year-old. Given the same risk of infection, we would still expect to see a higher proportion of double-vaccinated 80-year-olds die from covid than unvaccinated 40-year-olds. There are caveats to that simple calculation. The risk of infection is not the same for all age groups. Currently, infection rates are higher in the young and lower in older age groups.

However, given the UK’s vaccination strategy (vaccinate older, more vulnerable people first) and uptake profile (higher uptake in older groups), you would expect high proportions of the people who die from covid to have been vaccinated. And that is exactly what we see in the data."

Craig - I know that with a higher percentage of vax v unvax that it affects the percentages . It still doesn't seem to match what I am reading here but maths was never a strong point . That's why I am in finance .

When someone asks me to work out a number for them I first ask what answer do they want . Ha ha .

The information you provided was helpful . I wonder what numbers the new variant will dish out ?

These are the numbers from Delta. That data from August 21.

Craig - Those stats are presented in a disingenuous way too. The claim that mortality of Covid doubles every seven years of age is meaningless and probably untrue for the ages below 70 years old. If there is any truth it might mean that a 28 year old has a 0.002 chance of dying whilst a 35 year old has a 0.004 chance of dying. Both figures are so remotely improbable as to be meaningless.

It’s not a virus which has an even and gradual threat increase as people age, it’s a virus which poses very little risk until people reach old age whereby the risk increases rapidly with advancing years.

Same with the claim that vaccination reduces chance of hospitalisation by 96 percent. If a twenty year old has a 0.002 percent chance of hospitalisation then the 96 percent decrease affects this number to a degree as to be meaningless.

Then when the vaccine falters in its efficacy in the very vulnerable groups it’s meant to protect we are supposed to think nothing of it?

Lies, damned lies and statistics.

Vaccines have their place but mandating them and creating an apartheid situation in the pursuit of vaccination is counterproductive for society at best and a flat out evil intent at worst.

It isn't meaningless, it's statistics and proven.. There's an exponential increase in death rate skewed to the elderly.. Check the linear scale graph.

Then regarding the log-graph (1st one)..

"This near linearity on a logarithmic scale corresponds to an exponential increase—from age 35, the annual hazard increases at an average 9.7% a year for men and 10.4% a year for women. This means that, in normal circumstances, the average annual risk of death doubles for each seven years of extra age (since a 10% a year increase (1.1) over seven years leads to a total increase of 1.17, which is roughly 2).

And also re the effectiveness, this explains it well and is what I was saying in previous posts.

"Imagine a hypothetical population of 1000 people who would have been admitted to hospital with covid before the vaccines were available. At the time of writing, vaccine coverage among adults in the UK (at least one dose) is around 90%, so 900 of our 1000 potential hospital patients are vaccinated.

The remaining 100 unvaccinated people would still end up in hospital. If the vaccine is 96% effective against hospital admission with delta (this figure is for two doses, but let’s assume it holds for anyone vaccinated for simplicity) then 4% of our 900—or 36—vaccinated individuals will join the unvaccinated in hospital. 36 of the 136 (26%) people who end up in hospital will have been vaccinated.

Again, this doesn’t mean the vaccines don’t work. If they had no effect, then we would expect all 1000 individuals to be hospitalised — 90% of them vaccinated. Vaccination has, in fact, meant that the overall number of hospitalisations has fallen dramatically from 1000 to 136.

Of course, even with highly effective vaccines, such a high uptake rate means a significant proportion of hospitalised patients will have been vaccinated. That proportion will only get higher, the higher the uptake rate becomes."

Boy the vaccine sure is a rich vein of grievance and victimhood for Blowin isn't it. Pathetic.

JQ wrote:

Boy the vaccine sure is a rich vein of grievance and victimhood for Blowin isn't it. Pathetic.

When you hear blowin banging on about vaccine "apartheid" it's a sure signs he's been played by the Sky News After Dark mob or some other right wing rat bags. Their political task is to take stupid blue collar people and make them hate Labor more than they hate the LNP.
BTW blowin, during apartheid people suffered the consequences because they weren't born white. Un-vaccinated people not being allowed into pubs, is a consequence of being a dickhead.
Bit of a difference blowin.

Blowin wrote:

brutus wrote:

Blowin wrote:

I’ve had my first vaccine.

So you’re a comprehension specialist now, Brutus? Sure you are bloke. You’d better get off the phone mate,….Mensa is probably trying to get a hold of you.

Because I can’t risk this corrupt government preventing me from helping people I’m responsible for with their bullshit rules. It wouldn’t have to be if quivering old vaginas like yourself would stop being little bitches and spreading the fake fear.

Honestly…..I’ve posted the official statement that the case fatality rate for Covid is literally no worse than a bad flu year. Has this made you stop for even a micro second and ponder….” Hey, maybe this Death Plague isn’t as hectic as what I’ve been told to believe it is by the lying media? Maybe….maybe the fact that 99.58% of everyone infected in Australia in the nearly finished year of 2021 has survived might be enough for me to put down the worry beads for five fucken minutes and stop yelling that the Grim Reeper is knocking on the door ?”

Respect yourself Brutus. Unfreeze your mind from the withered and fossilised mountain of fear you’ve built around the tiny pea of a virus.

If you are so sure that Covid is just a flu why get vaccinated ya pussy!

ah Blowin , so you had to get vaccinated because of people like me ....old vaginas....wow you are a misogynist also ??
So you compromised your morals and beliefs and still you are rambling about deaths , which is not even in the conversation.....I'll say it again ....our health systems are really struggling , but you don't give a shit about anybody but you .......did you read what the Nurses are saying?
No fear here....but you interpret my opinions and facts as ,The Grim Reaper....you are the one shitting himself , scared shitless of a system that made you get vaccinated.......LOL,LOL,LOL!!

blowin really does love to tell everyone how they are scared and living in fear.
Man, can that bloke project.
I wouldn't want to be paddling out behind blowin if a 3 ft set landed on his head. He's bailing for sure.

Hey Blowin....just checking to see if you are not too full of fear from what we post here.....so,

"I treat Covid like I do malaria. I’ll go out of my way to avoid catching it but I’m not going to live in fear and hide in a locked cupboard and forfeit my life to avoid the tiny possibility that I catch it and the utterly remote possibility that I die from it."
It’s called reality bloke. You should try it."

Not sure if you realize that malaria is not contagious , comes from a mosquito.....Covid/Colds/Flus are actually contagious........would you like some links about contagions , or I could write in CAPITALS?

A lot of heated discussion on here today, I think it's best everyone gave it a rest for a bit. Go for a walk outside, suck in that fresh air, enjoy the rising moon.

Just got back from getting my second jab. Feeling pretty good. Not consumed by fear. Everyone else pretty relaxed about it all. No fuss.

Brutus- Pretty sure I know what contagious means. I’ll put it into context and you can confirm if you agree.

“I realised that Brutus was a bit slow on the uptake so thought I’d better pander to the old bugger and just keep repeating my opinions over and over again until they sunk in . His fossilised brain did eventually start to get a tiny inkling of what I was trying to say but I swear to God it took the contagious.”

My 16 yo got her Pfizer shot yesterday. Felt a bit tired today, had a nap for a couple of hours this afternoon. Her twin brother gets his tomorrow.

@Craig I have been tracking and looking at Public Health England's Variant reports. See link for the their latest. See table 5 representing hospitalisations and deaths by age (over 50/under 50) and by Vacc status.
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploa...

Now, if you look at Table 5 in the report, I have plotting this data since June 2021, it shows the under 50s vacinated are better off than the under 50s unvaxed by quite a margin. But its the over 50s Vaxxed that are dying and hospitalised at around 2.65 times the vaxed. This is also skewing the data indicating higher for over all deaths in the vaxed than unvaxed.

BUT...I checked, and the latest data suggests that 85% of over 50s in England are vaxed, therefore, as you said, you'd expect a high amount of the vaxed in the elderly to be dying etc. And thats what the data suggests. So a quick calc, There are 5.67 times the people over 50 that are vaxed vs unvacced in England. There are 2.65 time the people over 50 dying that are vaxed over unvaxed. Does this mean the Vaccines are having a positive effect in this age range according to these numbers? Because I've been trying to get my head around this data lately and given I'm 45 yrs old, and between the two age ranges, at first glance the data seems ambiguous given the glaring differences between the over 50s vaxed deaths (high compared to the unvacced) compared to un50 vaxed deaths (low compared to the unvacced). Its a mind F%$k but it's important to make this clear because there is so much opposing information around this that some clear guidance around the what the raw data is telling us would be most welcome.

Mishad. I haven’t looked at your link but if they quote actual numbers of people over 50 in both of the stats you’re quoting above then it should be a simple percentage calculation to work out the better odds.

Table 4 is interesting reading. Supposedly we’d been told delta is way more contagious and way more deaths than any other strain and yet results show otherwise. Alpha and Eta are worse.

Craig wrote:

A lot of heated discussion on here today, I think it's best everyone gave it a rest for a bit. Go for a walk outside, suck in that fresh air, enjoy the rising moon.

Haha full moon tonight?
Won't help.

Cannot believe these "discussions" are still going given the amount of data available.

So Mishad I just did the numbers.

For over 50’s Delta death rate is as follows:

Unvaccinated 6.9%
Vaccinated 2.0%

So you’re almost 4 times more likely to die from Delta if you’re unvaccinated.

I haven’t done the numbers for under 50’s.

Based on those graphs from Craig why are they pushing vaccines onto kids 12 yrs and upwards?

shortenism wrote:

Based on those graphs from Craig why are they pushing vaccines onto kids 12 yrs and upwards?

when you say “they” who are you referring too? Vaccine companies will be pushing it onto every age group.

Supafreak wrote:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10011701/Australian-children-ag.... https://www.tga.gov.au/committee/advisory-committee-medicines-scheduling...

Your first article is about Pfizer saying it’s safe for children. Ummmm that’s like going into a used car yard and letting the used car salesman tell you you need a used car. In fact whilst you’re here why don’t you get one for each and every family member.

Madness!!

Based on the numbers in Mishads report above the death rate in under 50’s is 5 in every 10000 unvaccinated. And a quick look at the numbers for vaccinated and it’s pretty damn close to the same rate. And I would think this would be the same as the age gets younger. Although I haven’t seen the stats for kids. But I for one am certainly not racing out to get my kids vaccinated particularly with Pfizer. I just don’t believe we know enough about such a unique vaccine to understand the long term possible side effects in children. And I’m fully vaccinated with Pfizer for the record.

shortenism wrote:

Based on those graphs from Craig why are they pushing vaccines onto kids 12 yrs and upwards?

which graphs are you referring too please?

https://www.counterhate.com/disinformationdozen

“ Just twelve anti-vaxxers are responsible for almost two-thirds of anti-vaccine content circulating on social media platforms.”

finally a little bit of reasonableness in the story... from the 'bias' union hating murdoch press no less...

waleed showing what a pretentious and out of touch twit he can be

mcmanus showing she knows her stuff

and the story showing what bunch of fuckheads the vicco government can be

"...She went on to say the issue could have been handled better by both the Victorian Government and industry bosses, given there was a lack of communication with workers before restrictions came in to place on their work sites."

"...In addition, an abruptly-announced vaccine mandate further infuriated workers.

In order to work on site, all tradies in Victoria must have received at least their first jab by September 23, the state’s Covid reopening road map declared this week."

"...But the mandate was an “unrealistic and blunt approach” that undermines the vaccine rollout, given at extremely short notice, and which did little else but inflame tensions, the Victorian Building Industry Group of Unions (BIGU) said in a statement.

“The (BIGU) maintains the view that the construction industry would have voluntarily reached high levels of vaccination without a heavy-handed approach,” the statement read.

“This heavy-handed mandate by the chief health officer, which was implemented with no notice, has only served to drive many people towards the (anti-vaxxer) movement.”

The union’s Victorian state secretary John Setka said there had been little consultation with the government over Covid measures affecting the industry.

“I have never spoken to Daniel Andrews to be honest,” Mr Setka told the Today program on Tuesday. “I have never met him and never spoken to him. I’ve had no discussions with Daniel Andrews ever.”"

https://www.news.com.au/entertainment/tv/current-affairs/waleed-aly-rips...

We're all gonna die....eventually. Best get as many deep and meaningful pits as you can in the meantime! Happy full moon Swellnutters!!

Dunno that Waleed showed he was out of touch, seems like he made some fair comparisons between (his) entertainment industry and the construction industry with regards to being allowed to stay open.
Sounds like he questioned the construction industry’s continued lack of compliance which led to the closing of tea rooms.
In other words, if you read between the lines he’s questioning the aggressive, blokey sense of entitlement which appears to prevail in the construction industry.
Which is possibly a fair thing to question.

that possibly is a fair thing to question andym...

but to compare the over paid, over catered, glamourous, pretentious, precious and 'privelaged' entertainment industry, with the scuzzy sparse set up of a building site... yeh nah...

two different worlds

"...but the government has fucked up enough times and it’s not just about vaccine mandates , some have lost jobs , homes and relationships."

yep, and I'd argue its about much more than just that too

as vj pointed out, this is looking a bit like a yellow vest moment

That is an epic photo Supafreak. One of Trent Slatters?? David Ebbot? Looks like it. Bloody ridiculous. Sick one. Yew!